View source for Requests for comment/Vibhijain and Mayur

{{rfc subpage
 |status  = closed
 |comment = This request has been inactive for some time, and the users discussed lost their adminship on the wiki(s) in question following the events of [[Requests for comment/Userrights on Hindi Wikipedia]] anyway, making further discussion of their behavior probably a local matter to be handled by local admins. <i><b>[[User:Snowolf|<font color = "darkmagenta">Snowolf</font>]] <sup><small>[[User talk:Snowolf|<font color = "darkmagenta">How can I help?</font>]]</small></sup></b></i> 12:22, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
 |date    = 2011-06-27
}}

==RFC Statement==
I am asking for comments and moving the previous discussion related to Mayur and Vibhijain requesting removal of Inactive admins on Indic projects. They have done a lot of things that are against general editing practice and Assumption of good faith. I want those activities to be available here for any future decisions related to those user.

==Moved from SRP==
{{Discussion top}}
==== Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington@hiwiktionary ====
{{sr-request
 |status    = not done
 |domain    = hi.wiktionary
 |user name = Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington 
 |discussion= [[wikt:hi:विक्षनरी:कौल#Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington|Local discussion]]
}}
Admin is inactive from November 2007. --[[User:Vibhijain|Vibhijain]] 15:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
: Only 4 days have passed. Please wait at least a week. &mdash;&nbsp;<span style="background: #f2f2f2; border: 1px solid #e6e6e6; font-family: Courier New;">[&nbsp;[[User:Wikitanvir|Tanvir]]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;[[User talk:Wikitanvir|Talk]]&nbsp;]</span> 15:06, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
::That is Anirudh BTW, the treasurer of the Indian chapter. He is travelling right now to verify or check this. I would ask that this be put on hold. [[User:Theo10011|Theo10011]] 15:49, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

:::He has been inactive from 2007, and as hi wikt follows hi wiki policy, according to that, a admin needs 50 edits in 6 months. [[User:Vibhijain|Vibhijain]] 16:16, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
::::Can you please cite or link to that policy? on hi.wikt and not hi.wiki please. I left a message for that user to see if he wants to do anything, just in case. [[User:Theo10011|Theo10011]] 16:32, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

:::::There is no official policy on hi Wiktionary, as most of the users are from hi wiki, they mostly follow hi wiki's policy. Hi wikt follows two main rules for becoming a admin/crat or removal of these rights

:::::*There should be a good support in poll
:::::*Only votes of users who are active on hi projects will be counted.

:::::So in that case, I think admin rights of this user can be removed. [[User:Vibhijain|Vibhijain]] 16:44, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

No, they can't without a local policy. You can't apply policies from a different project at your whim. Thanks [[User:Theo10011|Theo10011]] 16:49, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

:But still I don't see anybody opposing there, so In that case this user can be removed. Isn't it? [[User:Vibhijain|Vibhijain]] 16:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

::I would ideally like to keep my admin rights to the hiwiktionary because I feel that I would be able to contribute more to the hiwiktionary project than hiwiki. — [[User talk:Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington|<span style="color:black">Nearly Headless Nick</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington|<span style="color:black; vertical-align:super; font-size:90%; font-weight:bold" title="Contributions">{C}</span>]] 02:39, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
:::{{on hold}} We'll give some time for you to ask the local community at the discussion link above. '''''<font color="#9966CC">[[User:Fr33kman|fr33k]]</font><font color="navy">[[:User talk:Fr33kman|man]]</font>''''' 02:52, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
::::In the absence of a local policy (wikt, not wiki), it is only fair that each such request be dealt on a case-by-case basis locally. '''[[User:MikeLynch|<span style="color:#000080">Lynch</span>]][[User talk:MikeLynch|<span style="color:#00BFFF">7</span>]]''' 12:20, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::This request is open, and Will be closed on Community Consensus based on only active users of Hindi Wiki Projects--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  13:19, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

I looked and looked, and didn't find the desysop policy of this wiki. The only thing i found [[:hi:wikt:विक्षनरी:प्रबन्धक|विक्षनरी:प्रबन्धक]] is a list of adms, and in the talk page there are only guidelines for nomination ([[:hi:wikt:विक्षनरी_वार्ता:प्रबन्धक#प्रबंधक नामनिर्देशन Administrator Nomination|see here]]).

In the page where the pool are going on there are '''nothing''' saying that votes are exclusively to hi.wikt people, so forbid an Indian user to vote there because he has a different POV is not a option by hi.witk own rules. Both are active hindi translators here in meta (both [[User:Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington|Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington]] and [[User:Theo10011|Theo10011]]) and you can see that by [[Translation requests/Wikimedia office signs/hi]] and [[Fundraising_2010/Contribution_Banners/hi]] (by Anirudh) and [[Fundraising 2010/Core messages/hi]] and [[Fundraising_2010/Appeal/hi]] (by Theo). And if you go look any of their contribuitions, you will see that most of their work is in favour of hindi community.

And to close, the adm said in the page that he preffer to keep his tools - see [//hi.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?diff=42568&oldid=42564 here] and [//hi.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?diff=42568&oldid=42566 here] - (and in the other hand proved he is not as inactive as you might thing).

So all counted, and since the wiki has no policy about that, i don't see the point in remove his flag. [[User:Beria|<font size="3" face="Vivaldi" color="#4069e1">Béria Lima</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Beria|<font size="3" face="Vivaldi" color="#4069e1">msg</font>]]</sup> 09:37, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:@ Beria, he is not active, he became active only when we nominated him for being desysop.This user has no understanding of hindi, Let see his [[:w:hi:%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF:Sir_Nicholas_de_Mimsy-Porpington|User page]], We know there is no policy that why we are doing seperate voting for his removal.All community member are allowed to vote there.His removal will be based on consensus only.As of now he has got 2 oppose with no support from hi wiki community.Both theo and Anirudh are not prefered for translation in hindi wiki.Theo did a very bad translation during fundraising 2011, I helped him to improve translation during that period.I appriciate translation efforts by both users but translation was of very very low Quality. Regards--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  09:44, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

:: I'm sorry, but you are saying that we run a Fundraising in India with all messages wrong? And '''no one''' (including you) notice they are wrong? Because as i showed above, those two did a big job in that departament. So Indian people donate $193 657.88 to WMF by seeing a wrong appeal and central notice? Is that the argument you want to use? [[User:Beria|<font size="3" face="Vivaldi" color="#4069e1">Béria Lima</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Beria|<font size="3" face="Vivaldi" color="#4069e1">msg</font>]]</sup> 09:50, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:::Yes, Absolutely right.Hindi messages were very funny, then theo requested me to retranslate them.I retranslated those messages.Bad translation in this year fundraising was criticized in whole hindi Wiki community.--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  09:56, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
::::This is not the place to discuss the language capabilities of unrelated users. If either of you have something further to say about Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington's adminship, please do so on the hi.wikt page linked above. Thanks. [[User:Jafeluv|Jafeluv]] 09:59, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

:::since no local policy exists, and the fact even eligibility is not determine, as well stewards should not decide for local communities, I find that the result should be {{not done}}, at least until local desysop policy is established. [[User:Matanya|Matanya]] 09:59, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
::::Mantanya, it is unfair that you closed this request as "Not Done", Our community want to remove him and we did poll for that.Any admin can be removed based on community consensus.This is Very sad not to follow community decision!--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  10:04, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::Sorry to disappoint you, I see no way do decide whether a vote is eligible or not without local desysop policy. If I come and vote support/oppose now, would it count? I didn't override community decision, just said stewards don't have a way to determine the results, as a matter of fact, the request was closed as not done. [[User:Matanya|Matanya]] 10:12, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:I have made a local policy now and its under discussion. I believe that it would get a good support. So I request stewards to put this in hold, that would be better than closing it as unsuccessful.[[User:Vibhijain|Vibhijain]] 10:16, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
=====Strong oppose by a community member=====
::Hi Matanya, I'm a user from Indian community who has been drawn into this debate solely on a matter of principle because I see this as an exercise of abuse of power. The sysop/desysop policy has been specifically made solely for this purpose of de-sysopping previous crats/admins and is dubious to say the least. 
::The request for de-sysop comes from a user who is a minor and does not have an outstanding edit record as such. For example, on Hi:Wiktionary, he has a red link talk page, just about 50 edits or so, less than half of which are article space edits, his first edit on Hi Wiktionary was less then a month ago. On his fifth edit he asked for sysop status. 
::He is supported by a bureaucrat who ought to know better. The crat has made no attempt to check the user's antecedents, advice him, or mediate in the issue. In fact he gave a neutral but supportive note on his adminship. In this issue, he has [//hi.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF_%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BE:AshLin] accused me of meat-puppetry and threatened to block me. I would like to state that I am editing under my global account, that I have virtually no interaction with Yann and limited interaction with Anirudh Bhati whom I came to know just three months ago when I started outreach activities for WikiConference India. I came across this discussion through Meta recent changes and on examining the issue. decided to stand and get my vote counted as a member of the community. In short, I am not a [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Meatpuppetry|meat puppet]] - unless we take [[:w:en:Sock_puppet_(Internet)#Meatpuppet|this]] as a definition ;-).
::As such, I request that crat oversight for User:Mayur and turning this proposal down even if they follow the procedure. An action should be done for the right reasons, i.e. if Users Yann & Porpington were guilty of misbehaviour or abuse of admin privileges and not otherwise. [[User:AshLin|AshLin]] 15:56, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:::Hmm, I opposed Anirudh bcoz It is a shame for an Hindi admin to write on his user page that "[[:w:hi:%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF:Sir_Nicholas_de_Mimsy-Porpington|गाय हमारी माता है, हमको कुछ नही आता है. काला अक्षर भैंस बराबर]]" which meaning is "Cow is my mother, I don't know anythig, Every black letter is like buffalo for me".User don't know to write proper hindi and was inactive from 3 years.I warned you bcoz many india chapter people or any group which have no connection to hi wiki community suddenly appears for voting only, I consider this as meat puppetry.I have not blocked you so far I just warned you to stop such activity.This is Hi wiki community, please don't destroy it for your own politics.Let Hi community people decide what they want.--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  16:23, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
::::Yes, I agree with Mayur. I would also like to ask the Indian members why are they just sticking to me. Just tell me any serious crime I have done, or my crime is that I am a newbie and I am 13 years old. Really this all sucks, in fact it hurts. [[User:Vibhijain|Vibhijain]] 16:31, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
The crat has since [//hi.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%80:%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8C%E0%A4%B2&diff=prev&oldid=42578 expunged one entry I made opposing Sir Nicholas's removal and reverted another opposing Yann's removal from adminship]. In addition his insistence on Hindi community antecedents is disruptive as majority of Indians know Hindi as a national language. He is [//lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2011-June/003265.html on record on Wikimedia India list] of accusing the national chapter of being against North Indians. As such, Mayur or Vibhi have no exclusivity or hold no mandate for the subject. But that is besides the point. The real question to answer which have not been addressed by Mayur & Vibhi are :
* Should a user just be removed from adminship despite his wishes just because he has been dormant awhile?
* Should an editor be excused from bad behaviour just because he is a teen and newbie?
* Should a bureaucrat be expected to be a mature, problem-solving, and stabilising influence or an autocrat following a parochial agenda? If so, should he not be brought up for censure and possible deprivation of bureaucratship?
* Does a well-intentioned community member of good standing (I hope) have a right to participate in a dispute on Wiki where there are appearances of abuse of power, even if he is not an active editor on that particular wiki?

Imho there is a need for complete examination of the issue by the stewards. If it is proved that I'm the one who is being disruptive or in bad faith, I may please be banned from Meta. But if there is any iota of moral correctness in what I am saying then the crat should be censured and very closely monitored for future abuses of power. I also recommend a review of Mayur actions on all Wikis where he is a crat or sysop. His actions say that he is not trustworthy any more. [[User:AshLin|AshLin]] 17:39, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

:I didn't said an editor be excused from bad behaviour just because he is a teen and newbie, i asked you that you are just sticking to me just because I am a teen and a newbie. Sysop is not a position, they are tools, so what is the need of them when you re inactive. As of the mailing list, i have unsubscribed from it now so do not know whats going on there and '''I still believe the same what I said on the mailing list'''. How can you say that the actions by a member of Grant Advisory committee and the 8th (or maybe 9th) biggest global user by contributions can't be trustworthy. In that sense Your actions can't also not be defined trustworthy. I request you not a discuss anymore about this issue here. We are making a policy on hi wikt '''(And I request you not to look for that policy to oppose it)''', let we make it, then we will look forward   [[User:Vibhijain|Vibhijain]] 18:14, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:You are most welcome for any Investigation of one of the Top Indic Sysop, Further Queries will be answered at related project.This is not the right place for such discussion.Please maintain the decorum of the page.Thanks--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  18:17, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
::As a note, [[Requests for comment]] would be the best place to raise concerns with a user's global actions. [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]]<small> ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|Talk]])</small> 18:19, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the link, Ajraddatz.  [[User:AshLin|AshLin]] 18:27, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

=====Yann's opinions=====
If Anirudh wants to keep his admin status, he should have it, unless there are real reasons to remove it: misuse of tools, unanimous decision of the community. It does not seem the case either. The opinion of 2 persons is not ''unanimous decision of the community''. [[User:Yann|Yann]] 18:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
{{Discussion bottom}}

==Comments==
===View by PeterSymonds===
This is outrageous abuse. Reverting trusted users who opine in an election is ludicrous. Trying to keep opinions in favour of desysopping while telling others "'''not to look for that [inactivity] policy to oppose it)'''" is totally against any accepted procedure. Mayur and Vibhijain need to strongly take heed that their actions are unacceptable, and hold a fair election without disrupting it. [[User:PeterSymonds|PeterSymonds]] ([[User talk:PeterSymonds|talk]]) 18:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:Hey peter, Ashlin has never edited hindi wiki projects before his voting.He was neither autopatolled nor autoconfirmed befoe his voting on Hindi Wiktionary.Its a common understanding that anybody outside of community should not interfere in community matters.Anirudh had no Knowledge of hindi and he was very less active as a sysop on Hi wikitionary.What do you say for this "[[:w:hi:%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF:Sir_Nicholas_de_Mimsy-Porpington|गाय हमारी माता है, हमको कुछ नही आता है. काला अक्षर भैंस बराबर]]" which meaning is "Cow is my mother, I don't know anythig, Every black letter is like buffalo for me".This is written on this user page.Would yoou like to have such Inactive admin who has contributed nothing tobyour community with such user page statements.--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  06:17, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

===View by Theo10011===
They have said things about the chapter on the mailing that is bordering on racism. I have maintained that they are making and applying policies on a whim, Vibhi has been concerned about collecting admin rights on dead projects even for languages he doesn't speak. For someone so new, he seems much more concerned about telling others who have been there for several years before him, how things work, and who should have what right. Mayur, who I thought was a senior editor has given up any sensible judgement in most matter to just agree with him on almost every case, I have lost all respect I had for him as an editor before this. All of this is very unacceptable. This is the worst conduct I've seen by an Indian language admin. They have threatened to block someone from voting, if they vote against their policy on the basis they are "not part of the community". By their own broken logic, vibhi and Mayur's vote should be removed from on any open vote on Meta or new project where they are "not part of the community" which in vibhi's case are almost all (~4 month tenure on WMF). I am strongly against granting any more rights to Vibhi by the stewards after this incident. [[User:Theo10011|Theo10011]] 22:43, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:@Theo, I don't care about your respect for me, You had a very bad hindi translation during this year fundraising which was condemed in whole hindi community, But i shall still appriciate you for your attempt bcoz atleast you tried for that.I have already unsuscribed Wikimdia-india mailing list,Now do whatever you want.I simply said that its a community matter community should decide that.To judge the eligibility of a vote also matters.How  much contribution to any Indic languagge you have done, i think "Nothing".--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  01:07, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
::heh I can accept that. I never claimed to be a translator. I translated hesitantly after several requests to you and other hindi translators first. Regardless, This is the sort of blanket statement that is responsible for this outlook. I don't care for opinion on what I have contributed, but these decisions should be democratic, not an abuse of power like you displayed with Ashwin for disagreeing with you. You can not defend blocking someone from a project for disagreeing with how you want them to vote. I hope you can understand how wrong that was. [[User:Theo10011|Theo10011]] 03:05, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
:::We had already declared that Non Hindi Community member are welcome to comment but not for voting, Inspite of this you both tried to vote in favour of your friend.You both has not edited a single article on hindi Wiki.Neither you are editor of hi Wiki nor a global right holder.Your vote was a meet puppetry(Groupism) event that can not be allowed without wide consensus here.If most stewards are agree with you on this matter then it will be allowed.Till then such meet puppetry attempts will not be entertained in Hi wiki projects.Another option is you both should contribute these projects and be a active users in these projects then you are welcome to vote.In any case everyone is welcome to comment or share their opinion regardless of their activeness on Hi wiki projects--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  08:56, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

===Views by Mayur===
I want to inform all that saome days before we had a hot discussion with these users(Theo, ashlin, india chapter members) on meta, they have made their group.I was just telling them not to perform such groupism on Hindi projects as they did on sa wikipedia for HPN Removal request.All of these suddenly appears when a request for desysop of an India chapter member came. They are doing the same in each and every case.I warnd both users not to do this on hi wiki projects.Now its over.I don't want say anything more bcoz I have no so much time to waste for such discussion.if majority thinks that they should be allowed to vote we will not stop them for doing this.Thanks--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  01:07, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 
:A couple of things, not agreeing with you is not "groupism", and only 2 people "showed up", I was there for the last one and this while ashwin came upon it from Meta. I doubt neither I nor Ashwin prob. cared how it looks to you, we opposed because we didn't agree with you as Indian community members from the english wikipedia, we are entitled to that. Second, HPN is not a member of the Indian chapter, but I have seen his work on the project, and seen him organize events on a daily basis. As well as advocate for his own Indic language wiki, I would trust him before either of you with the tools, same goes for Yannf and Anirudh and I would have defended you if someone wanted you removed from an indic language project for inactivity without a policy . They do a lot more work that you are not aware of, you can't enact a policy and then go on a witch-hunt removing people you don't like and threaten anyone who disagrees with you like Ashwin. You also removed his vote and threatened a block, which is the most direct abuse of admin rights. I hope you realize that that was the biggest thing I found wrong, rather than the policy itself. [[User:Theo10011|Theo10011]] 03:17, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
::You are talking about admins who do very less or none admin actions inspite of being an admin, Both HPN and Anirudh are seemed to perform very less [[:Top_Indic_Admins| Sysop work]]. We don't care that you or your india chapter team prefer us or not.We all are known by our work and I know that I have done a lot of work and sysop tasks for Wikiedia Foundation Projects.You still have to do that you all speaks more but work less.I Have contributed hi wiki projects a lot.We all hi wikipedian concentrate on work not on commenting on others.Regarding Misuse of sysop tool, I have already cleard that I did that to avoid Groupism of India Chapter Community, In which you all have succeed.Each Community have its own policies made by active community members, i still fel that it is right.if you have differnt Opinion plz gain consensus here before voting on Hi Wikitionary, otherwise that edit would be reverted.Best Wishes--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  04:04, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


===Views by AroundTheGlobe===

As for Vibhijain, I see someone with raw wiki-talent who needs to be nurtured in the right direction. At the moment his edits show his immaturity as well as a good level of commitment, which is very important. Maybe he should be wiki-adopted by someone in good global standing as a wiki-apprentice. As for Mayur, I have respect for him as an editor, however he must remember that as admin and crat is expected to be level headed and not swayed. As I asked on the hi page, what good will it be to hi wiki if we remove inactive admins? Instead of concentrating on removing inactive admins it would be better for everyone if the concentration was on more productive work. Further, as I see it anyone with good global standing can comment on any wiki, I see no reason to censure such comments. Cheers, [[User:AroundTheGlobe|AroundTheGlobe]] 05:41, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

===Views by Vibhijain===

What can be a more pleasant surprise when you go to the RC at meta. This is totally a case of meat-puppetry, and all the people of the Indian community are trying to get me globally blocked. Just think, a person inactive from '''November 2007''', suddenly is totally free when somebody request his desysoping. Hardly all those people who have commented here, have any relation with any hindi project. When I joined Wikipedia, most of them were like a helping hand for me, but as I raised some issues on the mailing list, everybody becomes a spy and just chase me. I request all not try to capture small projects like hi wikt for your wiki-politics. And if you have any trouble with me, get me globally blocked, I can spend my time playing a game on fb. [[User:Vibhijain|Vibhijain]] 06:33, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

::I remember this email and deny no part of it - it was sent to a user who I considered part of the Indian community. This was at the time we needed national support for an event that you did give your support to, for which we are grateful. It was also an attempt to stick the "India" chapter together and stop the cracks that were appearing from becoming borders (read the Delhi Chapter proposal). I went to the extent to offer some via-media where the chapter could think of appointing someone in the Delhi region under them for the benefit of the local wikipedians. I went to the extent of reminding you that prior to independence there were 562 princly states in India and breaking the chapter could have disastrous consequences - all this is on record in the India mailing list archives, which are public.This was not accepted by yourselves and the Delhi chapter has now been formally proposed by yourself and Mayur.

::Please understand, neither myself nor anyone else is against you. My question still stands - what good will desyoping an inactive admin do to the community? Rather than bicker here, I would prefer if both of us spend our time doing some editing on wiki. 

::Remember, in no way have I gone against you (or Mayur for that matter), all I have done is say your actions prove your immaturity but you do have very good commitment and can go a lot further if you become an apprentice to an editor who has good global standing.  Cheers, [[User:AroundTheGlobe|AroundTheGlobe]] 08:47, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

'''Vibhi, regardless of whatever discussion that goes on here, I am warning you against posting any private emails on Meta. It is strictly against Meta policy and might result in a block. People have been blocked previously for posting private emails. I can't speak for other admins but consider this your warning.'''[[User:Theo10011|Theo10011]] 09:11, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
:'''I have replied on my talk page. This can't be considered a as warning at all'''. '''[[User:Vibhijain|<span style="color:#000080">Vaibhav</span>]] [[User talk:Vibhijain|<sup><span style="color:blue"><small>Talk</small></span></sup>]]''' 10:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

===Views by AshLin===
I was not planning to raise this here since the desysop moves had failed, but since the matter has been raised, I would like to reiterate my views on the issue. There are a number of issues here :
* Vibhi Jain has been bent upon a mission of garnering as much power as he can. He has had disagreements on number of Wikimedia projects and in the community list as well. That he should BE CIVIL and ASSUME GOOD FAITH does not occur to him, especially in the language he uses with other editors, often senior to him in age and on wiki. He also has the tendency to go off on tangent by applying for things beyond his maturity and experience - for example, he initiated a bid for Delhi for Wikimania 2013. He has been actively working for an alternative chapter in Delhi, never mind that he could not possibly be a member for at least next five years by Indian law as he is a minor. His latest proposal to desysop members of good standing is yet another example. While much leeway can be given for youthful enthusiasm and energy, a line should be drawn firmly to demarcate what is and is not acceptable behaviour.
* Mayur has been a reputed editor whom I knew of by reputation and edits for which I held in high respect. His blatantly provocative attack on the Chapter on unjustifiable grounds a few months ago came as a shock to me. While the Indian community and the Chapter have been at loggerheads in the past, the issue was that Chapter accept community as stakeholders which the Community has since done and the two now work hand in hand. His continued diatribe against the Chapter is meaningless especially as Theo, Yann & self are not Chapter executives but mainstream community members and only Anirudh is Treasurer of Indian Chapter. Some of us see the light of the attack on Anirudh's sysop status as misplaced anger against the chapter with Yann being collateral damage. HPN, when they attempted to desysop him on Sanskrit Wikipedia, was a Chapter Secretary but has since resigned that post. Mayur's unjustified antagonism against the Chapter which can be said to be an accepted part of the worldwide Wikimedia community and officially recognised by the WMF can be forgiven but his hostile actions towards editors, such as accusing me of meat-puppetry, expunging one edit completely from wikirecord, reverting me on another and continual threat of blocking me cannot. In fact even now, he has [//hi.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%80%3A%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%95&action=historysubmit&diff=42633&oldid=42627 struck our vote "humbly"] from the poll unilaterally. He has proven himself unrepentent and incorrigible.
* Mayur's actions as a sysop and bureaucrat have been completely opposite to that expected from one holding such a post. He should have guided Vibhi, he has not, Vibhi even now has a red link talk page on Hi:Wikt. He should have discouraged him from asking for sysop status on his fifth edit hardly a fortnight after his first. On the other hand he has given a lukewarm message of support in the Neutral section. He should have the good sense to turn down Vibhi's proposal of desysopping. He has on the contrary encouraged it. He should have advised Vibhi to moderate his tone and stick to rational discourse - in reality he vies with him to be more xenophobic. Even now he sticks to his stand when many voices point out that he is on the wrong path. His agenda is clear - make Hindi Wkimedia projects his personal fief. 

My point is that based on his past track record, hard work and technical prowess, a lot of trust has been placed in Mayur's hands and he has been given access to tools and privileges. Sadly, he not chosen to use them wisely but instead used them wrongly. In short, he has betrayed the trust placed in him by the general community at large. It worries me that he is still holding these powers and that he is showing no signs of stopping to misuse them. It also worries me that we have given this man a voice on the Grants Advisory Committee. We expect each Wikipedian to be on his best behaviour and persons in privileged positions to be above reproach. Mayur has clearly violated all this. As such, it would be entirely right to withdraw all privileges on all Wikimedia projects above that of a normal user - I leave that decision to the stewards. I would also recommend that the Grants Advisory Committee be told about his partisan agenda, as they may be assuming him to be a honest and impartial editor from India.

[[User:AshLin|AshLin]] 09:50, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

:Who are you to say that mayur's agenda is to make Hindi Wkimedia projects his personal fief, this can be said only by hindi wiki community. And the whole hi wiki community believes mayur as a good guy, I request you not to do this dirty politics against hi wiki and its editors, as you know nothing about any hindi project. '''[[User:Vibhijain|<span style="color:#000080">Vaibhav</span>]] [[User talk:Vibhijain|<sup><span style="color:blue"><small>Talk</small></span></sup>]]''' 10:17, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

===Views by MikeLynch===
I've known both Mayur and Vibhijain for around a month or two now, and I've been watching this thread and the mailing list. On a lighter note, I'd suggest some pills, a glass of water, lots of sleep, and probably even a vacation for the editors involved. Keep it cool guys, hot heads are less productive.

More seriously, I respect Mayur a lot, and I consider him a very established editor. I would not like to make any comments either way.

Coming to Vibhijain, I don't believe in discriminating with respect to an editor's age, but an editor's standing in the community should be weighed according to his maturity (as a person, as an editor as well). The first flag raised was when Vibhijain asked for admin privileges in sa wiki. I didn't mind really, and I even supported him for temporary admin. But then, a string of bad IP blocks followed, and I was forced to request for sysop tools to undo the damage. I still see mistakes in his admin actions, but I just let it go; I didn't mind him learning on the job. But I would suggest him make more useful content contributions before asking for admin tools. I don't care if he is 13 or 80, I will not comment on any of his RfAs unless he becomes more mature as an editor/temp admin. It might all have been in good faith, but serial requests for adminship on dead wikis sends out a bad message. One piece of sincere advice I'd like to give is that admins are not "super editors", and being an admin does not give one a special place in the community. Indeed, I know at least 20 people working on Indian pages regularly in enwiki, and only one or two are admins, and they aren't any different from the other guys. 

I've seen numerous discussions on the english RfA page regarding "too many teenagers in high places"; some say, RfA is a broken process. In this light, I don't think its fair to have admin policies on smaller wikis, especially ones with just a handful of active editors. Focus needs to be on developing articles, rather than deciding who gets some extra buttons. 

And for pete's sake, please do not post private emails onwiki! (That revision probably needs to be deleted) Its a breach of privacy.

On a final note, I appreciate his enthusiasm. It would be very useful if it is channelled towards the right direction. '''[[User:MikeLynch|<span style="color:#000080">Lynch</span>]][[User talk:MikeLynch|<span style="color:#00BFFF">7</span>]]''' 14:05, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

:Mike, the case was suddenly a editor who is inactive from November 2007 gets active when one requests his desysoping. And then some members of the Indian community who do not have any relation with any hindi project starts voting there. This is totally a case of meat puppetry. I don't understand why are they applying other indian wiki's policy on hindi projects, which has its own policy made with the consensus of '''its own editors'''. Interfering with other wiki's community and doing meat puppetry is a good reason to block, and Mayur warned about that. And suddenly this dirty politics increases so much that they had a RfC for this. This is a serious issue. I think this RfC should not be against I and Mayur but instead these users doing meat puppetry, opposing on wikis where do not even visit and accusing users like Mayur who is far more respected than them (at least in my view) of abuse of powers. '''[[User:Vibhijain|<span style="color:#000080">Vaibhav</span>]] [[User talk:Vibhijain|<sup><span style="color:blue"><small>Talk</small></span></sup>]]''' 15:11, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

==Proposed solution==
Since the above request seems to be going no where, I wanted to make this proposal. It is clear Vibhi has no idea about policies and guidelines, apparent in the posting of a private email above, and the way he has been debating without any policy knowledge. There are also concerns that he is not fully aware how to use admin rights, since his previous 3 requests were to stewards directly for inactive wikis without getting them locally anywhere. 

With that said, I can see that he wants to learn and be productive. Given the young age and enthusiasm, I am going to be direct here. Vibhi this is my advice to you- I want you to contribute to a content project(wp, wq) for at least 6 month, and not one where you are only 1 of 3 active community members but an active community project. You should also consider getting adopted by a senior user who you can ask and run things by. You should not ask for any rights during that 6 month period from the stewards, ideally, your first rights should be earned locally, like 99% of other admins.

I can't really advise Mayur, since he knows what's right and still chooses to ignore it. His conduct has been really sad, Peter summed up the outrage I felt pretty well above. [[User:Theo10011|Theo10011]] 09:33, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Anyone who agrees with me, feel free to endorse or state your opinion below:
*....
**@Theo, you are still not understanding that the thing you was doing on hi wikit was a meetpuppetry attempt.I simply suggested you and ashlin not to do that.You both were not blocked.For Aslin, i was not aware that he was Ashwin, I thought he may be a sock puppet of any well wisher of anirudh, I feel really sad when i came to know that he is Ashwin As he is a respected person from Pune Community. For removal of Sysop right of anirudh , i think you are aware of en wiki removed 250 inactive admin recently.Inactive admins are not prefered both in en and hi wiki.Anirudh was inactive from 2007.He is not capable of writing Hindi thats why i supported Vibhi.Many stewards was also against sudden activeness on a user account as any RFA is filed, you can see comments on Ruy,s admin request.I was still ready to accept your votes if you could got stewards consensus over this voting policies issue as I always follow policies and community consensus.Best--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  19:05, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
:: You clearly don't know the definition of meat puppetry, I suggest you look it up first. Second, stewards don't ever decide on what goes on a project, they are not expected to reach consensus on anything. It is the community (indian community) that has to reach the consensus and they abide by our decision. I can ask them to explain this to you personally if you like, hi wikt works with indian community consensus, it is beyond what stewards are concerned with. third, I am well aware of the en.wp decision to remove inactive admins, a decision that was proposed and voted on by all concerned members even inactive and new ones, no one went around and said you are not part of the community so don't look for the policy to vote against it or I will remove and block you from en.wp. You also might not be aware that the policy is only for temp. deadminship, not just for removing inactive admins but securing access since there are so many inactive admins on en.wp unlike hi.wikt, there is also an option for them to request the admin bit back from local crats directly if they ever want it back.[//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:ADMIN#Review_and_removal_of_adminship] I suggest you read the policy first before you use that as an example. I am tired of repeating this to you over and over again, stewards don't make the decision, the Indian community does. I don't need their permission or consensus to vote on a wiki in my language. the two of you don't make up or speak for the entire Indian community. [[User:Theo10011|Theo10011]] 20:23, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
:::Same case is applicable in hi wikt, every inactive admin will get his right back as soon as he become active.You didn't read the policy and opposed it without reading a policy.I am no talking about meat puppetry, I am talking about "Meet puppetry(Groupism)" that was done by you.I gave you two options either to get consensus from Hindi Wiki Community or from Stewards.Current Hi wii cummunity is hardly a part of current Existing India community.So its better to leave this decision to Hi wiki Community who have to edit that projects.WHy they would follow rules made by otherw who have nothing to edit or contribute that project.Its up to editing community that what policies they want for their own.I hope your will understand this.Best--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  03:22, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
::::I am surprised that Mayur did not know that AshLin was my user name, I have never tried to hide that fact. Anyway, that is not pertinent. It appears that despite his humungous number of edits and contributions, Mayur still hasn't "got" Wikipedia, much less the principles over which Theo and I are fighting for. In Wikipedia, even an anon ip has his/her rights in editing Wikipedia and expressing an opinion, though we would prefer that people register for taking benefit of the obvious advantages. With en:WP having such a broad definition of a stakeholder, Mayur's desiring to keep decision-making restricting everything to only active editors is downright wrong and anachronistic. On the other hand, he is quite happy to pick and choose whatever suits his POV from en:WP as in the case of active and inactive admins. Worse, he is unable to see that there is something wrong with threatening to block people who disagree with him or expunging their inconvenient edits or with condoning inexcusable behaviour by other editors. He keeps repeating his invalid proposition repeatedly. All in all, one can only deplore the state of affairs and move on. [[User:AshLin|AshLin]] 15:34, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
:::::Each project has its own policy. I agree that en wiki admins do not cut the votes of members not involve in the community, but that is also true that they do not count the vote. The only difference is that we just specified that the vote will not be counted. '''[[User:Vibhijain|<span style="color:#A50B5E">Vaibhav</span>]] [[User talk:Vibhijain|<sup><span style="color:red"><small>Talk</small></span></sup>]]''' 15:44, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
:::::::@ ashlin and Theo, I don't want to proceed further in this discussion bcoz its a time wastage, We are at Wikipedia to share knowledge not for fighting with each other, Let close this topic and proceed further for Best.BTW in Stewards elections only eligible users are able to vote I think this can be discussed in a global sense.But I have to do many deeds for my Wiki project. i don't want to waist my time here and I think you both also agree.Let enjoy editing on Wikipedia.Thank you and Regards--[[User:Mayur|<font face="Rage Italic" size="4.5" style="color:#000000;color:#FF4500"><i>Ma</i></font><font face="Rage Italic" size="5" style="color:#000000;color:#008000"><i>yur</i></font>]] <sup><span style="font-family:Italic;color:black">[[user_talk:Mayur|(talk]]•[[special:EmailUser/mayur|Email)]]</span></sup>  15:51, 7 July 2011 (UTC)