Meta-Wiki - User contributions [en]

Steward requests/Global

2018-12-24T02:57:13Z

Lojbanist: /* Global lock for WhenDatHotlineBling */

{{mbox|type=content|text=Due to persistent vandalism and disruption on this page, this page is currently semi-protected indefinitely. Globally blocked or locked users should appeal to {{nospam|stewards|wikimedia.org}}. If your account was locked with a reason "Compromised account", please contact trustandsafety{{@}}wikimedia.org.}}
{{dynamite|title=:Steward requests/Global/Header}}{{NOINDEX}}__TOC__ 

== Requests for global (un)block ==
{{dynamite|title=:Steward requests/Global/block-header}}
=== Global block for 240[59]:0:0:0::/16 or a large number of subnets within this range ===
{{Status|}} 
* {{Luxotool|2405:204:5227:bc:a511:8fa:282d:bdef}}
* {{Luxotool|2409:4071:239a:232d:7820:e8ba:e9a6:1290}}

This is a follow-up to [[Steward_requests/Global/2018-10#Global_block_for_IPv6_range_240[59]:*]]. I strongly believe that all subnets mentioned in the previous request should be blocked as well rather than just the three picked out, especially since the above two in this request, not falling under the list from the previous request, are sources of this spam as well. {{ping|Horcrux|Trijnstel}} [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 06:46, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:I should check for collateral, but as a general comment I'm usual not in favor of blocking such huge IPv6 ranges. [[User:Trijnstel|Trijnstel]][[User talk:Trijnstel|talk]] 10:08, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|Trijnstel}} The newest incarnation of this spam [[rmy:Pavan Kumar N R|is on the Romani Wikipedia]]. You may wish to check whether "User:Wikiromanadm" is the same individual. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 15:36, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Sjoerddebruin|Stryn|Ajraddatz|-revi|علاء|HakanIST|Hoo man}} as Wikidata admins and stewards [[d:Special:Diff/791653007|who can tackle the threatening behavior from this individual]]. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 17:19, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

=== Global block for [[Special:Contributions/125.212.177.0/20|125.212.177.0/20]] ===
{{Status}} 
* {{Luxotool|125.212.177.0/20}}
So many IPs of this range are doing vandalism in various wikis, mainly in lists of flags. --[[User:Mr. Fulano|'''Mr. Fulano!''']] [[User talk: Mr. Fulano|'' Talk'']] 17:09, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
:I just came here to report 176 for the same reason. Just blocked 125.212.176.220 on mlwiki -- [[:ml:User:Razimantv|Razimantv]] 07:57, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global blocks for 107.175.0.0/17 and 107.175.128.0/17===
{{status|}}
*{{Luxotool|107.175.0.0/17}}
*{{Luxotool|107.175.128.0/17}};
(or {{Luxotool|107.175.0.0/16}})

At meta I am seeing constant spambot infringements from within the /16, and I see that we have previously [[Special:Block/107.175.0.0/16|blocked the /16]] before, though when I do some IP checks they seem to be separate /17s though both still seem to be server colo sets. GUC doesn't show that a block would be problematic, so I am asking for both /17s to have an extended block time, maybe a couple of years if that isn't problematic for logged in users (unknown and may be worth checking for account spambots anyway). Thanks or the consideration.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 00:56, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
:{{re|billinghurst}} GUC works on subnets again? I get 0 results.   — [[User:Jeff G.|Jeff G. ツ]] please [[Template:Ping|ping]] or [[User:Jeff G./talk|talk to me]] 18:21, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
::GUC won't show either abusefilter and spamblocklist hits or deleted contributions, and who knows what accounts may be are created within those two ranges. I do know what I see, hence the report, and we do know that there is a history with these ranges.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 06:46, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

===Global block for 185.158.132.0/22===
{{status|}}
*{{Luxotool|185.158.132.0/22}}
This range is spambot problematic at Meta and has been [[special:block/185.158.132.0/22|identified as such previously]] and now locally blocked until the end of 2020. I will hazard a guess that it is the same xwiki, if it is clear of user accounts, you may wish to consider blacklisting.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 01:47, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

=== Global block for [[Special:Contributions/125.212.128.0/18|125.212.128.0/18]] ===
{{Status}} 
* {{Luxotool|125.212.128.0/18}}
Cross-wiki vandalism. --'''[[User:Jdx|jdx]]''' [[User talk:Jdx|Re:]] 12:28, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

=== Global unblock for 198.52.128.0/17 ===
{{Status}} 
* {{Luxotool|198.52.128.0/17}}
This IP address was blocked back in 2014 for "webhost Avante Hosting Services + 198.52.217.44". It appears that the IP address in question has been rotated to different users. [[User:Charwinger21|Charwinger21]] ([[User talk:Charwinger21|talk]]) 07:01, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
:Specifically, the range was assigned to Carrytel (an ISP) on 2018-05-23. [[User:Charwinger21|Charwinger21]] ([[User talk:Charwinger21|talk]]) 09:19, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
=== Global block for [[Special:Contributions/2001:4898::/32|2001:4898::/32]] ===
{{Status|}}
* {{Luxotool|2001:4898::/32}}
Abused ip range from a cloud provider [[User:XXBlackburnXx|XXBlackburnXx]] ([[User talk:XXBlackburnXx|talk]]) 21:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global block for several ranges in Jakarta, Indonesia ===
{{Status|}}
* {{Luxotool|114.124.128.0/17}}
* {{Luxotool|125.160.112.0/22}}
* {{Luxotool|118.136.56.0/22}}
* {{Luxotool|175.106.11.0/24}}
Anon-only for ∼1 month, please. Page blanking. Tries to harass cross-wiki those sysops who block them. Subsumes [[#Global block for 175.106.11.106|two requests]] by {{u|Jeff_G.}} above. [[User:Incnis Mrsi|Incnis Mrsi]] ([[User talk:Incnis Mrsi|talk]]) 12:07, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global block for [[Special:Contribs/94.130.0.0/16|94.130.0.0/16]] ===
{{status|}}
*{{Luxotool|94.130.0.0/16}}
Cross-wiki vandalism. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 03:12, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global block for [[Special:Contribs/2001:b400::/32|2001:b400::/32]] ===
{{status|2001:b400::/32}}
*{{Luxotool|2001:b400::/32}}}}
Cross-wiki LTA 影武者(KAGE) usually used[https://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:%E6%97%A5%E5%BF%97/block&page=User%3A2001%3AB400%3A0%3A0%3A0%3A0%3A0%3A0%2F32].--[[User:MCC214|'''MCC214''']][[User talk:MCC214|'''Talk with me''']]#[[Special:Contributions/MCC214|'''Contributions with me''']] 10:05, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
: Is {{u|MCC214}} kidding about '''/32'''? Some half-year ago [[Steward requests/Global/2018-05 #Global block for 2001:B400:E200::/40|I requested his /40]]—that is, 28 times smaller—and yet the block was denied. Lurk in archives and learn which range size is typical for a blocked IPv6. [[User:Incnis Mrsi|Incnis Mrsi]] ([[User talk:Incnis Mrsi|talk]]) 18:29, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
::I see this[https://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:%E6%97%A5%E5%BF%97/block&page=User%3A2001%3AB400%3A0%3A0%3A0%3A0%3A0%3A0%2F32].--'''[[User:MCC214|MCC]][[User Talk:MCC214|214]][[Special:Contributions/MCC214|#]][[zh:WP:COOL|aut viam inveniam aut faciam]]''' 07:19, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global block for [[Special:Contributions/2600:8800:3980:2550:0:0:0:0/64|2600:8800:3980:2550:0:0:0:0/64]] ===
{{Status}} 
* {{Luxotool|2600:8800:3980:2550:0:0:0:0/64}}
* {{Luxotool|2600:8800:3980:2550:2D3A:F5EE:BE9D:AFF5}}
* {{Luxotool|2600:8800:3980:2550:EC1E:4FD6:522A:256}}
* {{Luxotool|2600:8800:3980:2550:B03D:B240:18A8:F8B0}}
Block evasion by {{user|MisterAnthony}}, same as [[Steward requests/Global/2018-10#Global_block_for_2600:8800:3981:78A0:0:0:0:0/64|this recent request]] but is now using a slightly different IP range. The [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q498019&offset=&limit=500&action=history same Wikidata item] that was linked in that request shows the same behaviour from this IP range and there are already a number of local blocks for this range or IPs from this range.
- [[User:Nikki|Nikki]] ([[User talk:Nikki|talk]]) 17:45, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global block for [[Special:Contributions/2600:8800:3980:2550:F109:50C8:54AD:4584|2600:8800:3980:2550:F109:50C8:54AD:4584]] ===
{{Status}} 
* {{Luxotool|2600:8800:3980:2550:F109:50C8:54AD:4584}}
The same guy as the globally blocked {{Luxotool|2600:8800:3981:78A0:B537:446F:EB0A:FBC2}} and {{Luxotool|2600:8800:3981:7A80:194E:E87A:2510:F53C}}. Still vandalizing and creating crappy non-articles on several projects. Thx, [[User:XenonX3|XenonX3]] ([[User talk:XenonX3|talk]]) 21:26, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
=== Global block for [[Special:Contributions/125.214.48.0/22|125.214.48.0/22]] ===
{{status}} 
*{{Luxotool|125.214.48.0/22}}
Crosswiki vandalism by proxy.   — [[User:Jeff G.|Jeff G. ツ]] please [[Template:Ping|ping]] or [[User:Jeff G./talk|talk to me]] 15:29, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global block for 51.68.11.219 ===
{{status|}}
*{{Luxotool|51.68.11.219}}
WDHB. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 19:45, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
:It seems 51.68.0.0/16 is an OVH range, so a webhost/proxy. — [[User:Surjection|'''s'''ur]][[Special:Contributions/Surjection|'''j'''ec]][[Special:Log/Surjection|'''t'''ion]] &lang;<tt>[[User talk:Surjection|'''?''']]</tt>&rang; 20:25, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
:{{U|Vermont}}, you beat me to it. Thanks. Please revdel it all, stewards, and when you place a rangeblock, consider not allowing them to use the talk page, and consider blocking 2602:FFF6:F:0:0:0:0:0/48 as well. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 21:39, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global block for [[Special:Contributions/61.243.209.73|61.243.209.73]] ===
{{Status}} 
* {{Luxotool|61.243.209.73}}
Cross-wiki vandalism. --[[User:Xiplus|Xiplus]] ([[User talk:Xiplus|talk]]) 08:15, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global block for 177.6.145.50===
{{Status}} 
* {{Luxotool|177.6.145.50}}
This IP is about to pop out from a one year block, however, Meta shows that it is still spamming. Can we please give it another year. Thanks.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 13:31, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global block for 172.58.11.0/24 ===
{{Status}} 
* {{Luxotool|172.58.11.0/24}}
Block evasion elsewhere. IP range used by the Prince-au-Léogâne LTA. --[[User:Hiàn|Hiàn]] ([[User talk:Hiàn#top|talk]]) 18:36, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global block for [[Special:Contributions/222.103.145.154|222.103.145.154]] ===
{{Status|done}} 
* {{Luxotool|222.103.145.154}}
Cross-wiki vandalism. --[[User:Xiplus|Xiplus]] ([[User talk:Xiplus|talk]]) 01:08, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
:{{done}} '''--'''[[User:علاء |Alaa ]] [[User_talk:علاء |:)..!]] 22:59, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

===Global block for 191.101.80.0/20 webhosted range===
{{Status}}
* {{Luxotool|191.101.80.0/20}}
Webhost range AS61317 ASDETUK http://www.host1plus.com, GB
https://tools.wmflabs.org/guc/?isPrefixPattern=1&src=rc&user=191.101.8

Plentiful spambot activity  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 14:08, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

== Requests for global (un)lock and (un)hiding ==
{{dynamite|title=:Steward requests/Global/lock-header}}


=== Global lock for [[User:Satoshi Kondo|Satoshi Kondo]]/[[User:WorldCreaterFighter|WorldCreaterFighter]] ===
{{status}} 
* {{MultiLock|Satoshi Kondo|Tomurtogo|WorldCreaterFighter|AmurTiger18|HainanTai|TAMILinJAPAN|AustronesianTaiwan|Altai2018|Verakhu|OrenburgNative|MasterChai|PeopleTaking11|WayneMacleod1|DrKoraKora|Lynch Kevin de León|Spiritclaymore|Lord Huynh|HlaaluTW|KuroZetsu oho|Dddcg|SushigirlJessice|Adygeheipeople|Pinoy123xaaa|Deccodabo|BoxRec9|LemanderOrange|CantoneseMaster|DrKoraKora|InternationalAffairs3|TurkicDelight|Robela2|WuyueDNApeople|X Aterui x|Kumasojin 熊襲|HeichtiSmech|193.171.130.114|86.56.207.16|77.100.234.159|213.162.72.128/25}}
After being blocked indefinitely in the English-language Wikipedia because of his massive abuse of sockpuppets and persistent POV edits, he switches to the German Wikipedia and got blocked indefinitely there for massive spamming. Hee keeps creating accounts and edits both with IPs and new sockpuppets for years since 2015, as the [[:en:Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WorldCreaterFighter/Archive|List]] in the English-language Wikipedia of [[User:Vanjagenije|Vanjagenije]], [[User:Sro23|Sro23]] and [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GeneralizationsAreBad]] shows it. --[[User:Sonra Mint|Sonra Mint]] ([[User talk:Sonra Mint|talk]]) 17:11, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
:[[User:Sonra Mint|Sonra Mint]] is itself a sock puppet of user [[de:Benutzer:Dribbler]] and blocked in german wikipedia([[Special:CentralAuth/Sonra Mint]]). And i do not know how often i have to say this: I am not WorlCreaterFighter. Look at my english talkpage. I have made a list of my former socks.([[:en:User_talk:Satoshi_Kondo#I_am_sorry,_kindly_asking_for_unblock_and_further_information|talkpage]]) I have also said that I will not work on these topics anymore. Sonra Mint is possibly related to some of them, as he/she is a confirmed sock aswell. Btw. User Tomurtogo is blocked as sock of Tigril([[:en:Wikipedia:Long-term_abuse/Tirgil34|Tirgil34]]). [[User:Satoshi Kondo|Satoshi Kondo]] ([[User talk:Satoshi Kondo|talk]]) 11:17, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
:He(or she) is possibly an albanian user, 310 edits on albanian wiki, also blocked on netherland wiki for sockpuppetry... [[User:Satoshi Kondo|Satoshi Kondo]] ([[User talk:Satoshi Kondo|talk]]) 11:08, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Why am I listed here? I just saw the message in Wiki. Please take me from that list. I have nothing to do with this, or am related with this sock in any way. Regards, [[User:Akocsg|Akocsg]] ([[User talk:Akocsg|talk]]) 17:09, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Note: {{user8|Satoshi Kondo}} is a contributor to Wikimedia Commons user. Why wasn’t our community notified about this ''de facto'' ban proposal? [[User:Incnis Mrsi|Incnis Mrsi]] ([[User talk:Incnis Mrsi|talk]]) 12:55, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock/unlock for [[User:Xayahrainie43|Xayahrainie43]] ===
{{status}} 
*{{LockHide|Xayahrainie43}}
Crosswiki abuse, indef enwiki due to CIR issue as well as block evade using IP, indef zhwiki due to DE --[[User:Cohaf|Cohaf]] ([[User talk:Cohaf|talk]]) 18:05, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

: Note, there was a change in behavior which implies that he is not a bot. However, the actions carried out have implied that he is intentionally pushing anti-policy article changes and those changes are detrimental to the quality of articles (including unnecessary changes to navbox and other related issues). There is a high possibility for this kind of vandalism to occur at other projects (en.wikiversity / zh.wikiversity) due to his actions. Note to others: this is a Taiwan IP and his behavior looks like [[:zh:WP:114.27|a long term abuser at the zhwiki though not confirmed]].--[[User:1233|1233]] | [[User_talk:1233| Questions?]]| This message is left by him at 18:37, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

::Update: after comparing the IP addresses Xayahrainie43 used to evade blocking at enwiki with the IP ranges [[:zh:WP:114.27|that LTA]] using at zhwiki and behavior comparison at zhwiki, we now consider that the link between Xayahrainie43 and that LTA to be around {{likely}}, thanks.--[[User:無聊龍|無聊龍]] ([[User talk:無聊龍|talk]]) 04:45, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

* Note to stewards: I ran into this editor while investigating two other sockmasters and have documented him some [https://checkuser.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Berean_Hunter/sandbox5 here]. He shares the same ranges as one of those sockmasters so it may be worthwhile to also look into those cases as well so that the other sockmaster is not viewed as collateral damage. The two other sockmasters are chasing each other around different wiki projects and engaged in nationalistic edit warring. [[User:Berean Hunter|⋙–Berean–Hunter—►]] ([[User talk:Berean Hunter|(⊕)]]) 12:59, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
**{{ping|Berean Hunter}}. Pardon me if I interpreted your comment wrongly, are you saying that this user can be a sock of a potential LTA? Thanks.--[[User:Cohaf|Cohaf]] ([[User talk:Cohaf|talk]]) 13:07, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
***I have documented him as a separate entity and have not asserted that he is related to the one sockmaster. He does share the same ranges but the devices are different. [[User:Berean Hunter|⋙–Berean–Hunter—►]] ([[User talk:Berean Hunter|(⊕)]]) 13:23, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
****{{ping|Berean Hunter}}Thanks for the clarification, appreciate it.--[[User:Cohaf|Cohaf]] ([[User talk:Cohaf|talk]]) 13:28, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for Sei Noelle ===
{{status|}}
*{{LockHide|Sei Noelle}}

Self-confessed sockpuppet of globally locked user {{Noping|Skiyomi}}; previously blocked for disruptive editing on this very project. [[User:Theinstantmatrix|theinstantmatrix]] ([[User talk:Theinstantmatrix|talk]]) 00:38, 16 December 2018 (UTC) See also [[Special:Permalink/18718357#I was told to inform the stewards of this|Stewards' noticeboard#I was told to inform the stewards of this]]. [[User:Theinstantmatrix|theinstantmatrix]] ([[User talk:Theinstantmatrix|talk]]) 00:51, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
:Another one: {{LockHide|Stealth Strength}}. -★- [[User:PlyrStar93|'''PlyrStar93''']] →[[User_talk:PlyrStar93|Message me. ]]← 01:36, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
::I will behave from now on, and I really do mean that this time. [[User:Sei Noelle|Sei Noelle]] ([[User talk:Sei Noelle|talk]]) 22:28, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
:::So can my account please not be locked? Just asking. [[User:Sei Noelle|Sei Noelle]] ([[User talk:Sei Noelle|talk]]) 16:38, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
=== Global lock for BostonMassachusettsAreDirtyKikes ===
{{status|}} 
*{{LockHide|BostonMassachusettsAreDirtyKikes}}
Cross-wiki abuse. -★- [[User:PlyrStar93|'''PlyrStar93''']] →[[User_talk:PlyrStar93|Message me. ]]← 07:26, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for [[User:Ksiądz nieufni ministrowie w dupie|Ksiądz nieufni ministrowie w dupie]] ===
{{status|}}
* {{LockHide|Ksiądz nieufni ministrowie w dupie}}
Crosswiki vandalism. --[[User:OJJ|OJJ]] ([[User talk:OJJ|talk]]) 10:24, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock/unlock for [[User:Anastacia168|Anastacia168]]===
{{status}} 
*{{LockHide|Anastacia168}}
Cross wiki spammer by the look of it. Thanks --[[User:Herbythyme|Herby]] [[User talk:Herbythyme|talk thyme]] 12:03, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for AYTEAM sock ===
{{status|done}} 
*{{MultiLock|AYARMYTEAM|BYWİKİ2323}}
LTA; sock of globally locked [[Special:Contributions/AYTEAM|AYTEAM]]/[[Special:Contributions/TURANEMPIRE|TURANEMPIRE]]. — [[User:Surjection|'''s'''ur]][[Special:Contributions/Surjection|'''j'''ec]][[Special:Log/Surjection|'''t'''ion]] &lang;<tt>[[User talk:Surjection|'''?''']]</tt>&rang; 20:32, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
:{{done|by علاء and Melos}} --[[User:Schniggendiller|Schniggendiller]] ([[User talk:Schniggendiller|talk]]) 00:45, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for Ciphers sock ===
{{status|}}
*{{LockHide|Moral disgust}}
CU confirmed; lock evasion. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 21:55, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for socks of [[Requests for comment/Global ban for Avoided|Avoided]] (or an impostor) ===
{{status}}
29th to 2nd:
{{collapse top}}
* {{MultiLock|Kneipenhockerbraunhinterlasser|Braun Otto und Weiß Manfred|Rohre als primärer Transportweg für biologische Festkörper|Braunknattermaxe|Kneipenhocker auf den Weihnachtsmarkt tragen|Pressestelle des Oberstes Gericht der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik|Weihnachtsmann mit Machete richtet auf Adventsmarkt ein Blutbad an|Abgeschlagene Körperteile in der Gegend weit verstreut|Den Besuchern mit Machete den Kopf gespalten|Weihnachtsmann wirft abgeschlagene Köpfe in das Dixiklo|Ein aus der Sicherungsverwahrung geflohener masurbiert auf die Leichenteile|WerIsraelnichtliebtsollDeutschlandverlassen|Kneipenhockerdauerbesetzer 060|Auf ddm Weihnachtsmarkt Kraftstoff Trinker|Kneipenhockerdauerbesetzer 017|Kneipenhockerdauerbesetzer 093|Pressestelle des Bundesverbands der Horrorclowns|Auf dem Weihnachtsmarkt Kraftstoff aus Schnabeltassetrinker|Kneipenhockerdauerbesetzer 042|Kneipenhockerdauerbesetzer 018|Pressestelle des Bundesverbands der zerbrochenen Schnabeltassen|Pressestelle des Freien Deutschen Gewerkschaft Bundes|Pressestelle der Industriegewerkschaft Metall in der DDR|Jede Rasur debattiert ne Lasur|Kannibalismus ist eine Lösung!}} ‎
{{collapse bottom}}
Please lock his socks, check the underlying IPs and block IPs and (if found) as well additional accounts. A block for found IP ranges should be considered. If blocked locally, but ''not'' locked globally, it could end like [[Special:Contributions/Fliegende Ostereier|this]]. Avoided (and his impostors) are located in Germany and Austria, IP adresses found from other than these countries are probably open proxies and should be blocked for 1 year. Regards --[[User:Schniggendiller|Schniggendiller]] ([[User talk:Schniggendiller|talk]]) 23:59, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for Angela Criss socks ===
{{status}}
* {{MultiLock|Lawnanton|KelseyBelmonteBass}}
Confirmed on English Wikipedia to the previous batch, including [[User:JGaines1988]]. [[User:NinjaRobotPirate|NinjaRobotPirate]] ([[User talk:NinjaRobotPirate|talk]]) 03:03, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for [[User:ChloeGrooms|ChloeGrooms]] ===
{{status|done}} 
*{{LockHide|ChloeGrooms}}
Spambot account, blocked on nl.wiktionary after adding spamlinks.
--[[User:MarcoSwart|MarcoSwart]] ([[User talk:MarcoSwart|talk]]) 09:57, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Ruslik0|Ruslik]] ([[User talk:Ruslik0|talk]]) 20:43, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

===Global lock for LTA===
{{status}}
*{{LockHide|PlyrStar 93 with t.komuro}}
*Long term abuse.--[[User:Cohaf|Cohaf]] ([[User talk:Cohaf|talk]]) 12:21, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for account ===
{{status}}
{{MultiLock|William 4289}}
Long-term abuse (WhenDatHotlineBling). -★- [[User:PlyrStar93|'''PlyrStar93''']] →[[User_talk:PlyrStar93|Message me. ]]← 15:00, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for [[User:My pasword is beep boop]] ===
{{status}}
*{{LockHide|My pasword is beep boop}}
The password for [[User:My pasword is beep boop]] really was "beep boop". I've scrambled it at en.wiki, and I presume it needs to be globally locked. [[User:Boing! said Zebedee|Boing! said Zebedee]] ([[User talk:Boing! said Zebedee|talk]]) 17:47, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for cross-wiki spammers ===
{{status}} 
*{{LockHide|BelPolitik}}
*{{LockHide|MounTiCool}}
*{{LockHide|CaliBud420}}
*{{LockHide|DGGD2018}}
*{{LockHide|Delray Beach Police Department}}
*{{LockHide|DJVoltToTheMax}}
Long-term cross-wiki spamming and self-promotion. All should be considered the same user. --[[User:Hiàn|Hiàn]] ([[User talk:Hiàn#top|talk]]) 18:10, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
:These accounts appear to be socks of the Prince-au-Léogâne LTA. [[User:Hiàn|Hiàn]] ([[User talk:Hiàn#top|talk]]) 18:36, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for spambots ===
{{status}} 
{{MultiLock|AnaMcCaughey30|TillyAlaniz0|HoracioPws|AlexandriaAlbino|MilanJamieson44|WilburS73227|MelvinEgge565|AaronHobler2357|DessieCombs532|TQCChana1810|VernitaTaul3171|ForrestGairdner|DemiConnolly68|HallieSchweizer|Refugia05K|ClaudettePulsfor|SaundraGearhart|JayneLapsley2|JohnnieUpton832|TerraPoo953|LanaRocha5|LeiaBreton906|ManieCabrera3|ReaganSloman02}}
Spambots, tripped abuse filters at simplewikt. --[[User:Hiàn|Hiàn]] ([[User talk:Hiàn#top|talk]]) 18:28, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock/unlock for [[User:Marion_Wegerich|Marion Wegerich]] ===
{{status}} 
*{{LockHide|Marion_Wegerich}}

Appears to be a sock of the globally banned [[User:Styron111]] --[[User:Only|Only]] ([[User talk:Only|talk]]) 20:00, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

:Additional piece of information: Even the [https://www.die-tagespost.de/feuilleton/Der-dicke-Hund;art310,189770 user name] has close links to Styron's anti-Wikipedia campaign, see below. Regards, [[User:Agathenon|Agathenon]] ([[User talk:Agathenon|talk]]) 16:44, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock/unlock for [[User:Wegerich_Marion|Wegerich Marion]] ===
{{status}} 
*{{LockHide|Wegerich_Marion}}

see above: another sock of [[User:Styron111]], already locked in de:WP. Best regards --[[User:Agathenon|Agathenon]] ([[User talk:Agathenon|talk]]) 20:24, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for socks of [[Requests for comment/Global ban for Avoided|Avoided]] (or an impostor) ===
{{status}}
3rd to 6th:
* {{MultiLock|Kneipenhockerdauerbesetzer 092|Pressestelle des VEB Kunst- und Hohlglasveredelung Wasungen|Respekt an Awoidet gute Akkounts am wochenende|Opas alte Wehrmachtsschnabeltasse|Schnabeltasse mit Kneipenhocker zertrümmert|Pressestelle des Kombinat Mikroelektronik Erfurt|Todesstrafe für Kinderschänder - wir schützen die Opfer|Wo fließt das Wasser immer flott - Das ist ganz klar in Ottos Pott|Rudi das Rentier wurde Heute geschlachtet|Kneipenhockerdauerbesetzer 024|Emden Hauptbahnhof|Freiheit für alle Nationalisten - Lasst unsere Kameraden frei|Freiheit für Ursula Haverbeck|Freiheit für Horst Mahler|Awoidet bekommt zu Weihnachten eine Schnabeltasse|Für Awoidet eine Schnabeltasse unter der Baum legen|Weihnachtskrippe mit Schnabeltasse schmücker|Awoidet ich Danke für alle Akkounts}} ‎
Please lock his socks, check the underlying IPs and block IPs and (if found) as well additional accounts. A block for found IP ranges should be considered. If blocked locally, but ''not'' locked globally, it could end like [[Special:Contributions/Fliegende Ostereier|this]]. Avoided (and his impostors) are located in Germany and Austria, IP adresses found from other than these countries are probably open proxies and should be blocked for 1 year. Regards --[[User:Schniggendiller|Schniggendiller]] ([[User talk:Schniggendiller|talk]]) 21:42, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for GRP socks ===
{{status|done}}
*{{MultiLock|Headbandboxing|Boxingogi|Frazierdfan|}}
WMF banned user, latest incarnations. There may be others. [[User:Antandrus|Antandrus]] ([[User talk:Antandrus|talk]]) 22:45, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Ruslik0|Ruslik]] ([[User talk:Ruslik0|talk]]) 20:42, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for LTA sock ===
{{status|}}
*{{LockHide|IBP159}}
{{u|Adam Asrul}}, see [[:zh:Wikipedia:当前的破坏#IBP159（討論_·_貢獻_·_封禁日誌）]]。--[[User:Ehime|Ehime]][[User talk:Ehime|'''«'''…'''»''']] 03:22, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for 2 spambot accounts ===
{{status|}} 
*{{MultiLock|Tammie1410|DanieleRickman0}}
Spambot accounts, blocked on nl.wiktionary after attempts to add blacklisted spamlinks.
--[[User:MarcoSwart|MarcoSwart]] ([[User talk:MarcoSwart|talk]]) 08:42, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
=== Global lock for 3 spambots ===
{{status|}}
*{{MultiLock|GraigRoldan94|MerriShapcott|LeonOpitz14800}}- triggered by filter 8 @it.Wn--[[User talk:Wim b|Wim b]] 09:56, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for [[User:Danny Phantom (Daniel Fenton)]] ===
{{status|}}
*{{LockHide|Danny Phantom (Daniel Fenton)}} Sockpuppet of [[User:JoeyPknowsalotaboutthat]]. [[User:Sir Sputnik|Sir Sputnik]] ([[User talk:Sir Sputnik|talk]]) 14:03, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock/unlock for [[User:הערבים רשעים|הערבים רשעים]] ===
{{status}} 
*{{LockHide|הערבים רשעים}}
Requesting lock, blocked on English Wikipedia by myself for launching offensive personal attacks. Username is also [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Usernames_for_administrator_attention&diff=next&oldid=875055869 offensive]--5 albert square 14:09, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for socks of [[Requests for comment/Global ban for Avoided|Avoided]] (or an impostor) ===
{{status}}
6th to 10th:
{{collapse top}}
* {{MultiLock|VIELFICKENFETZTVIEL|WERVIELFICKTFICKTVIELMEHR|FICKENFETZTFICKENFETZTFICKENFETZTFICKENFETZTFICKENFETZTFICKENFETZTFICKENFETZT|WennhinterFLIEGENFLIEGENFLIEGENFLIEGENFLIEGENFLIEGENhinterher|FLIEGENFICKENFLIEGEN|Wennottorichtiglautknattertbleibtimklokeinfleckweiss|Fremde Völker, Fremde Sitten ziehen in das Land ein|Deutsche Jugend hörst du nicht wie der Heimatboden weint?|Eine Jugend ruft zur Revolution -Nationaler Widerstand|Syrischer Asylbewerber mit raketengetriebem Rollstuhl|Syrischer Asylbewerber ohne Asylgrund kriegt trotzdem Asyl|Raketengetriebner Rollstuhl mit Kneipenhockerfunktion|Klosteine in den Adventskalender stecken|Syrer ohne Fluchtgrund erhalten trotzdem Asyl|Von der Maas bis an die Memel von der Etsch bis an den Belt|Syrer erhalten ohne Fluchtgrund dennoch Asyl|Deutsche Bürger stehen mit dem Rücken an der Wand|Sanitäranlagenbau Krefeld Bielefeld|Man fordert Toleranz in jeder deutschen Stadt für den Islam|Ñ.PD die demokratische nationale Alternative|Ñ.PD kein Fildter hält sie auf|Schweinefleisch in Moschee Genießer|Rechtsrock ist genau meine Musik|In Germanien fest verwurzelt stehe ich zu Deutschland|Awoidet Mythos und Legende ein Vorbild für die deutsche Jugend|Frontalkraft ist die beste deutsche Band|Awoidet du bist das Vorbild für uns der Mythos Awoidet lebt|Wenn ich sterbe soll es für Awoidet sein er ist der Mythos DIE Legende|Unsere Heimat - Unser Auftrag|Freie Kameradschaft Mecklenburg und Pommern|15-Jähriger bei lebendigem Leibe in einem Ofen gebacken|Ich freue mich schon auf die Rentier-Steaks}}
+
* {{LockHide|hidename=1|Und wieder eine ganze Range für ein Jahr dicht! Danke Ruslik0}} ‎
{{collapse bottom}}
Please lock his socks, check the underlying IPs and block IPs and (if found) as well additional accounts. A block for found IP ranges should be considered. If blocked locally, but ''not'' locked globally, it could end like [[Special:Contributions/Fliegende Ostereier|this]]. Avoided (and his impostors) are located in Germany and Austria, IP adresses found from other than these countries are probably open proxies and should be blocked for 1 year. Regards --[[User:Schniggendiller|Schniggendiller]] ([[User talk:Schniggendiller|talk]]) 00:00, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for Arturo socks ===
{{status}} 
* {{MultiLock|JPEGordon|Srbozo23|MuttYearY'allScionTest|Arturo de SF de CA}}

All Arturo socks.--5 albert square 01:14, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

=== Global lock for WhenDatHotlineBling ===
{{status}}
*{{LockHide|Willy Get His Wheels}}
Cross-wiki abuse. -★- [[User:PlyrStar93|'''PlyrStar93''']] →[[User_talk:PlyrStar93|Message me. ]]← 02:02, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
=== Global lock for Renamed user TG9qYmFuaXN0 ===
{{status}}
*{{LockHide|Renamed user TG9qYmFuaXN0}}
I am leaving all Wikimedia projects and never coming back. [[User:Renamed user TG9qYmFuaXN0|Renamed user TG9qYmFuaXN0]] ([[User talk:Renamed user TG9qYmFuaXN0|talk]]) 02:57, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

== See also ==

{{/Archivefooter}}
{{RF}}

User talk:Lojbanist

2018-12-24T00:49:57Z

Lojbanist:

{{delete|author request}}
<div class="borderc6 backgroundc2" style="border-style:solid;border-width:medium;padding:0.3em 0.5em;color:lightgrey">
<div align="center">{{Welcome/lang}}</div>
== Welcome to Meta! ==

<div class="lang-en" lang="en" style="color:black">
Hello, {{BASEPAGENAME}}. Welcome to the '''Wikimedia [[Meta:About Meta|Meta-Wiki]]'''! This website is for coordinating and discussing all [[Complete list of Wikimedia projects|Wikimedia projects]]. You may find it useful to read our [[Meta:Policy|policy page]]. If you are interested in doing translations, visit [[Meta:Babylon]]. You can also leave a note on [[Meta:Babel]] or [[Wikimedia Forum]] if you need help with something (please read the instructions at the top of the page before posting there). Happy editing!
</div>
</div> — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 13:17, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

== Survey on Inspire Campaign for addressing harassment ==

[[File:NounProject_Leaves.png|right|100px|link=https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_bpwtax5WbOwBf3D]]

Thanks for your participation during the [[Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire/Archive/Addressing_harassment|Inspire Campaign focused on addressing harassment]] from June 2016. I'm interested in hearing your experience during the campaign, so if you're able, '''[https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_bpwtax5WbOwBf3D I invite you to complete this brief survey]''' to describe how you contributed to the campaign and how you felt about participating.

Please feel free to let me know on my talk page if you have any questions about the campaign or the survey. Thanks! [[User:I JethroBT (WMF)|I JethroBT (WMF)]] ([[User talk:I JethroBT (WMF)|talk]]) 03:24, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

''([[Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire/Users/Addressing harassment|Opt-out instructions]])''


== Help Wikipedia improve Recent Changes! ==

Hi KATMAKROFAN,

The Editing Design team at the Wikimedia Foundation is currently seeking Wikipedians for user studies. If you've been using the new Recent Changes filters for edit review beta, we would love to talk with you! The study session will take approximately an hour.

Participants will need access to a stable internet connection, a quiet place to go for a research session, and a desktop/laptop with a microphone and optionally, a camera (it'd be nice to be able to see you during the session, but NOT required!).

If you are interested, please email me (see my userpage) to let me know your availability the next 2 weeks for a research session in Pacific Time (or specify your time zone).

Please let me know if you have any questions, and thank you for helping us improve Recent Changes and Edit Review!

[[User:Dchen (WMF)|Dchen (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Dchen (WMF)|talk]]) 21:43, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

== Reply to: [[special:diff/17251879/17253193]] ==

Dear KATMAKROFAN

Please, strike out [[special:diff/17251879/17253193|unnecessary bit]] from your comment because it is simply not [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Proposals_for_closing_projects/Deletion_of_Siberian_Wikipedia&diff=704398&oldid=704260 true].

On recognizing that the world doesn't revolve around ''me'', I have had my opinion on simple projects formed long before September 22, 2017 at 18:36:13 (CEST) – when I stated it. I have the right to express my opinion without being attacked on a personal level. Hope you would realize that it is very different when someone tries to nullify ones argument in a discussion, from that of attempting to attack at a personal level. Thanks for the understanding and your efforts of making the Wikiworld great again. Yours truly, -- [[user: Nesmir Kudilovic|Nesmir Kudilovič]] ([[user talk: Nesmir Kudilovic|razgovor]]) 15:53, subota, 23. rujna 2017. (SEV)

== Simple English Wikibooks ==

Hello again. Just for notification, [[Requests for comment/Unclosure of Simple English Wikibooks]] is closed. I wonder whether you still intend to request reopening Simple English Wikibooks. Here is [[Language committee/Handbook (requesters)]] if you want to create a request. Cheers. --[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 18:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

For the heads up, [[Requests for new languages/Wikibooks Simple English]] is made. --[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 18:43, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

== Are you understand Nahuatl languages? ==

Hi, I looking for Nahua speakers of Nahuatl languages. I start in Incubator new projects. Thanks.--[[User:Marrovi|Marrovi]] ([[User talk:Marrovi|talk]]) 00:06, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

It's my new project [[:Incubator:Category:Incubator:Nahuatl languages]], All about Nahuatl languages.--[[User:Marrovi|Marrovi]] ([[User talk:Marrovi|talk]]) 00:10, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

== November 2017 ==

{|class="messagebox plainlinks user-block" style="margin-left:0; padding:5px; background:#F9F9F9; "
| [[File:Stop x nuvola.svg|50px]]
| Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Wikimedia Meta-Wiki has a strict policy against [[:en:Wikipedia:No personal attacks|personal attacks]]. [[:en:Wikipedia:Attack page|Attack pages]] '''are not tolerated''' on Meta and are [[Meta:Deletion policy|deleted quickly]]. Users who continue to create or repost such pages will be blocked from editing Meta. Thank you. [[User:Az1568|Az1568]] ([[User talk:Az1568|talk]]) 16:37, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
|}
So I'm not allowed to talk about admin abuse? '''I am not happy.''' [[User:KATMAKROFAN|KATMAKROFAN]] ([[User talk:KATMAKROFAN#top|talk]]) 16:44, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

:Which abuse? Also if you don't use your talk page properly then I will ask some sysop to extended your block and revoke your permission to edit your talk page. --[[User:Liuxinyu970226|Liuxinyu970226]] ([[User talk:Liuxinyu970226|talk]]) 11:32, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Requests for comment/Enwiki topic ban proposal

2018-12-23T19:48:50Z

Lojbanist: Created page with "{{rfc subpage |status = |comment = |date = {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}-{{subst:CURRENTMONTH}}-{{subst:CURRENTDAY}}  }} Someone on th..."

{{rfc subpage
|status =
|comment =
|date = 2018-12-23 
}}

Someone on the [[:en:WP:AN|English Wikipedia admin's noticeboard]] is trying to get me banned from the "Wikipedia talk" namespace and village pumps for long-ago behavior in Templatespace. This topic ban proposal seems to be succeeding, and it would prevent me from participating in most Wikipedia policy discussions. I think this is way too far, as this would effectively exclude me from most of the discussions advertised via the Centralized Discussion template, as well as the most important parts of the Wikipedia policy-making process. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 19:48, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Requests for comment/Jbowiktionary no community only MediaWiki message bot

2018-12-22T18:34:41Z

Lojbanist: Lojbanist moved page Requests for comment/Jbowiktionary no community only MediaWiki message bot to Requests for comment/Jbowiktionary is all but dead

#REDIRECT [[Requests for comment/Jbowiktionary is all but dead]]

Requests for comment/Jbowiktionary is all but dead

2018-12-22T18:34:41Z

Lojbanist: Lojbanist moved page Requests for comment/Jbowiktionary no community only MediaWiki message bot to Requests for comment/Jbowiktionary is all but dead

{{rfc subpage
|status =
|comment =
|date = 2018-12-22 
}}

[[:wikt:jbo:]] has little-to-no community. The only active user is the MediaWiki message bot. The Lojban community seems not to know that it exists, only that the Wikipedia exists. I propose that jbowiktionary be moved to a "vlacukt:" namespace on jbowikipedia. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 18:33, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Requests for comment/Jbowiktionary is all but dead

2018-12-22T18:34:03Z

Requests for comment/Racism at Azerbaijani Wikipedia

2018-12-22T18:19:44Z

Lojbanist:

{{rfc subpage
|status =
|comment =
|date = 2018-11-8 
}}
Good evening, colleagues. In my absence as an author, I noticed something during the review of other language Wikipedias. I was surprised that the Wikimedia Foundation doesn't have noticed it yet. I know that the English Wikipedia, for example, has lower quality requirements than German ones. The Eastern-European Wikipedia administrators are often even openly nationalist minded, the Arabic-speaking, Persian and Turkish Wikipedias give larger importance to religion. However, it becomes particularly questionable if the encyclopedia is misused as a platform for historical revisionism and open war-propaganda. For instance, in the Azerbaijani-speaking Wikipedia the [[:en:Armenian genocide|Armenian genocide]] is called "[[:az:Qondarma Erməni soyqırımı|Armenian genocide lie]]" (not even the Turkish Wikipedia is calling it a lie as a page name), and the Armenian minority in Turkey instead is accused of a "[[:az:Şərqi Anadoluda ermənilərin türk-müsəlman əhaliyə qarşı soyqırımı|genocide to the Turks]]" which is not only an absurd fact-twisting but also a mockery of the victims. However, categorisations such as "[[:az:Kateqoriya:Erməni saxtakarlığı|Armenian hypocrisy/lies]]" and the article "[[:az:Erməni terrorizmi|Armenian Terrorism]]" knock the bottom out of the barrel and cross the border to racism. Recently, an admin has moved all articles related to the [[:en:Khojaly massacre|Khojaly massacre]] to "[[:az:Xocali soyqirimi|Genocide in Khodzhali]]" and blocked the page for editing. Generally, every massacre of Azerbaijanis is called [https://az.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=+soyq%C4%B1r%C4%B1m%C4%B1&title=X%C3%BCsusi%3AAxtar&go=Ke%C3%A7 genocide], what ridicules scientific standards about genocides. I would like to tell these strange, openly racist distortions of facts to Wikimedia, but I do not know how. I would be grateful if an administrator with knowledge of Turkish or Azerbaijani would control it. {{unsigned|Franz Kasulke}}
:I suppose that Azerbaijani Wikipedia community is less active comparing, e.g., to English and Russian Wikipedias, and, due to its size, their admins stand with the Azerbaijani government which denies and fails to recognize Armenian Genocide. --[[User:Agusbou2015|Agusbou2015]] ([[User talk:Agusbou2015|talk]]) 14:39, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

*Delete all the pages and move the wiki back to the Incubator. [https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=az&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Faz.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FQondarma_Erməni_soyqırımı "So-called"]? It happened, for god(dess(es)?'|s'|'s) sake. Deal with the fact that your precious Ottoman Empire committed war crimes. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 01:00, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Requests for comment/Do something about azwiki

2018-12-22T01:12:09Z

{{rfc subpage
|status =
|comment =
|date = 2018-12-22 
}}

There are currently four active Meta RFCs about the Azerbaijani Wikipedia: [[Requests for comment/Copyright violations and no reason block by sysop on Azwiki]], [[Requests for comment/Sysop abuse in Azerbaijani Wikipedia]], [[Requests for comment/Racism at Azerbaijani Wikipedia]], and [[Requests for comment/Long term block for Whatsapp message on azwiki]].

These reveal flaws with the current azwiki administration:
*They allow copyvios to run amok.
*They block people for no reason, vague reasons, or due to activity on non-Wikimedia websites.
*They engage in POV-pushing, most prominently Armenian Genocide denial.

I think the best solution would be to '''office-actions prune''' ([[:wikipedia:en:template:Pp-reset]]) azwiki and DB-lock it for at least 6 months.

[[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 01:12, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Requests for comment/Racism at Azerbaijani Wikipedia

2018-12-22T01:00:46Z

Lojbanist:

{{rfc subpage
|status =
|comment =
|date = 2018-11-8 
}}
Good evening, colleagues. In my absence as an author, I noticed something during the review of other language Wikipedias. I was surprised that the Wikimedia Foundation doesn't have noticed it yet. I know that the English Wikipedia, for example, has lower quality requirements than German ones. The Eastern-European Wikipedia administrators are often even openly nationalist minded, the Arabic-speaking, Persian and Turkish Wikipedias give larger importance to religion. However, it becomes particularly questionable if the encyclopedia is misused as a platform for historical revisionism and open war-propaganda. For instance, in the Azerbaijani-speaking Wikipedia the [[:en:Armenian genocide|Armenian genocide]] is called "[[:az:Qondarma Erməni soyqırımı|Armenian genocide lie]]" (not even the Turkish Wikipedia is calling it a lie as a page name), and the Armenian minority in Turkey instead is accused of a "[[:az:Şərqi Anadoluda ermənilərin türk-müsəlman əhaliyə qarşı soyqırımı|genocide to the Turks]]" which is not only an absurd fact-twisting but also a mockery of the victims. However, categorisations such as "[[:az:Kateqoriya:Erməni saxtakarlığı|Armenian hypocrisy/lies]]" and the article "[[:az:Erməni terrorizmi|Armenian Terrorism]]" knock the bottom out of the barrel and cross the border to racism. Recently, an admin has moved all articles related to the [[:en:Khojaly massacre|Khojaly massacre]] to "[[:az:Xocali soyqirimi|Genocide in Khodzhali]]" and blocked the page for editing. Generally, every massacre of Azerbaijanis is called [https://az.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=+soyq%C4%B1r%C4%B1m%C4%B1&title=X%C3%BCsusi%3AAxtar&go=Ke%C3%A7 genocide], what ridicules scientific standards about genocides. I would like to tell these strange, openly racist distortions of facts to Wikimedia, but I do not know how. I would be grateful if an administrator with knowledge of Turkish or Azerbaijani would control it. {{unsigned|Franz Kasulke}}
:I suppose that Azerbaijani Wikipedia community is less active comparing, e.g., to English and Russian Wikipedias, and, due to its size, their admins stand with the Azerbaijani government which denies and fails to recognize Armenian Genocide. --[[User:Agusbou2015|Agusbou2015]] ([[User talk:Agusbou2015|talk]]) 14:39, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

*Delete all the pages and move the wiki back to the Incubator. [https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=az&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Faz.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FQondarma_Erməni_soyqırımı "So-called"]? It happened, for god(dess(es)?'|s'|'s) sake. Deal with the fact that your precious Ottoman Empire commuted war crimes. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 01:00, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Requests for comment/Administrator abuse on the EO Wiktionary

2018-12-22T00:56:32Z

Lojbanist:

{{rfc subpage
|status =
|comment =
|date = 2018-09-21
}}

== Block and abuse of admin rights on EO Wiktionary by Pablo Escobar and no local appeal procedure available ==

=== Involved parties ===

* [https://eo.wiktionary.org/wiki/Uzanta_diskuto:Taylor_49 Taylor_49] filling party, not admin (admin at SV Wiktionary but not at EO Wiktionary)
* [https://eo.wiktionary.org/wiki/Uzanta_diskuto:Pablo_Escobar Pablo_Escobar] opponent party, admin

=== Case details ===

The [https://eo.wiktionary.org/wiki/Vikivortaro:Administrantoj#Misuzo_de_la_administrantaj_rajtoj local page about admins] is useless: in case of abuse of admin rights it suggests to contact Jimbo Wales (not yet done, bad idea?) or The Arbitration Committee (that does not exist yet and possibly never will). My account [https://eo.wiktionary.org/wiki/Speciala%C4%B5o:Protokolo/block got blocked] on EO Wiktionary by "Pablo Escobar". There is no appeal procedure available there. There is almost no community, there is only one administrator abusing eir rights and totally controlling the place. I am not a vandal. I am a contributor with (globally) > 12'000 edits. The edit causing the block [https://eo.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Helpo%3ARapida_kreado&type=revision&diff=692822&oldid=692239] is consistent with [https://eo.wiktionary.org/wiki/Vikivortaro:Diskutejo#Uskleco previous discussion], while Pablo's revert and block are not. Pablo should not be allowed to control the Wiktionary that way.

*Due to the nature of the issue, [[w:User talk:Jimbo Wales|User talk:Jimbo Wales]] may be a good place to go. Good luck and all the best, [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 20:10, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

** The problem with one person totally owning a public wiki, excessive piracy being committed by the admin in person and unjustified bans persists. I am permanently banned again (officially 3 months). Contacting Jimbo now. [[User:Taylor 49|Taylor 49]] ([[User talk:Taylor 49|talk]]) 17:03, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

*'''Close eowiktionary''' and move all content to a new "Vortaro" namespace on eowikipedia. This should be done with all conlang non-Wikipedia sisterprojects: jbowiktionary is virtually dead. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 00:56, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Wikipede

2018-08-31T03:12:17Z

Lojbanist: /* Demote this creature as mascot */

==Diet==
While early in the article it states that he is normally a devout vegetarian it also states that he is a centipede-a predatory insect... what gives? If he was a millipede this would make more sense. [[User:75.46.219.71]] 00:44, 4 April 2008

==Mascot war==
Is it relevant to mention how he was made the Wikipedia mascot over Wikipe-tan who was demoted to be a WikiProject mascot, yet she's much more popular? [[User:Tyciol|Tyciol]] 06:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

== Wikipede ==

Has anyone asked the French what they think about the possible misspellings of this mascot's name in their language? ;) --[[User:Darwinius|Darwinius]] 19:23, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

== Demote this creature as mascot ==

Hardly anyone on Wikipedia has ever heard of "Wikipede". I don't think this creature should be Wikipedia's mascot anymore. I don't even think of that thing as a mascot anymore. Wikipe-tan is more popular. -- [[User:Denelson83|Denelson83]] 06:41, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

No. [[Special:Contributions/216.49.181.128|216.49.181.128]] 23:02, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
:Agree with Denelson83, '''demote'''.--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Kintetsubuffalo]] 11:36, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

:Agreed, demote that nasty thing (and you wouldn't believe how bad it sounds in French).--[[User:Darwinius|Darwinius]] 12:13, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
:{{Support}} [[UserX360xSilent LightStep|'''Silent''']] [[User talk:X360xSilent LightStep|(Contact)]] 22:52, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
:Agreed, still surprised Kip was already out of fashion back in 2009. [[user_talk:bluedeck|Bluedeck]] 06:49, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
*'''Marked as historical''' (non-admin closure) [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 03:12, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

== The Link for Larger Version is Deleted in Wikimedia ==

The original link for sketch 7-03 is [http://meta.wikipedia.org/upload/1/1f/Wikipedelarge.jpg Larger version]. Its remove record can be found in [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Wikipedelarge.jpg&action=edit&redlink=1 Wikipedelarge.jpg].
[[User:Lxylxy123456|Lxylxy123456]] ([[User talk:Lxylxy123456|talk]]) 14:48, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

维基百足

2018-08-31T03:04:34Z

Lojbanist:

{{Wikipede/lang}}
<div style="float:right; padding:15pt;">[[Image:wikipedemedium.jpg]] 
维基百足 7-03
</div>
{{historical}}
'''维基百足'''（'''Wikipede'''）是一只腼腆的小虫，他坐在树下，避免争议和冲突。他吃棒棒糖，偶尔喝[[en:Mate_(beverage)|马黛茶]] (mate)。尽管他通常是虔诚的素食主义者，但有时也会吃块鲜美多汁的牛排。

“维基百足”生物分类属于[[zh:多足類#.E5.94.87.E8.B6.B3.E7.B6.B1|唇足纲]] (Chilopoda) 维基爱好者目 (wikiphiliae)，不过一般被称作“基普” (Kip)。他拥有物理、哲学、历史、兽医学位，但却选择了放弃这些微不足道的事业，转而投身于在维基百科上分享知识，从而让世界更美好。

自然而然地，基普处于失业中，并领着失业救济金——尽管当他没在为寻找破坏者和理论疯子而不停查看最近修改的时候，他也会寻找工作（他承认对此漫不经心）。基普有个怪癖，他总是用第三人称说话。比如说，当一位编辑者问他能否撤销对几篇[[zh:盖亚假说|盖亚理论]]文章的删改，他回答说“基普不是你的仆人”。

虽然严格来说基普是一只[[zh:蜈蚣|百足虫]]，但是一百条腿有点多（连基普也这么认为），因此基普通常以少得多的腿/手臂的形象出现，一般是六条或八条——有时是七条。六肢似乎最为常见，因此几乎无法区分基普和蚂蚁。基普认为有关前面蚂蚁/百足虫之间区别的政治胡言乱语很可能是由[[en:Speciesism|物种歧视主义]]所导致——尽管他有时也会被怂恿去[[en:Blame_Canada|谴责加拿大]]。

----
Translated from [[Wikipede]], 09:35, 14 July 2012.

ウィキピード

2018-08-31T03:04:18Z

Lojbanist:

{{Wikipede/lang}}
<div style="float:right; padding: 0 0 15pt 15pt;">[[Image:wikipedemedium.jpg]] 
ウィキピードのスケッチ 7-03
</div>
{{historical}}
'''ウィキピード'''（'''Wikipede'''）とは、現在の[[Wikipedia mascot|ウィキペディアのマスコット]]として選ばれている名前です。彼は内気で小さな虫けらであり、木の下に腰掛けて論争や衝突を避けています。彼は棒付きキャンディを食べ、たまに手に入るイェルバマテのお茶を飲み、普段は敬虔な菜食主義者ではあるものの、時々は肉汁のしたたるうまそうなステーキを食べます。

ウィキピードは種としてはムカデ網ウィキフィリア目（''Chilopoda wikiphiliae''）に属しますが、通称は「キップ(Kip)」です。彼は物理学、哲学、歴史、獣医としての薬学の学位を持っていますが、これらの知識で枝葉末節を追求するのではなく、ウィキペディアに自分の知識を吐き出し共有することにより、世界をより良いものにしていくことに人生を捧げています。

キップは失業手当で暮らしている生まれながらの失業者であり、荒らし行為やおかしな理論を掲げた変人を見張るために「最近の更新」に張りついている時以外は、仕事を探しています（あまり熱心に、ではないことは彼も認めています）。キップは一人称を使わないという煩わしい癖を持っており、例えば、幾つかのガイア理論の記述を削除しなくてもいいかどうかを、ある編集者がキップに尋ねた時に、キップはこう答えました。「キップはあなたのお母さんじゃありません」

定義上は「百足」ではありますが、100本の足は少しばかり多すぎるため（少なくともキップはそう考えています）、普段のキップはそれよりも遥かに少ない足の本数（通常は6本か8本――時には7本）で現れます。6本足が標準的であるようなので、このためキップは事実上アリと区別できません。キップはこのアリとムカデの違いをめぐる政治的ナンセンスの状況は、人種差別の好例であると考えていますが、その彼も、時おりカナダを非難したいという欲求に駆られることがあります。
----
Translated from [[Wikipede]], 06:39, 13 February 2006.

[[Category:Wikipedia]] [[Category:Humor]] [[Category:Categories/ja]]

Wikipede

2018-08-31T03:03:02Z

Lojbanist: I think the "anime-styled" mascot has eclipsed Wikipede

{{Wikipede/lang}}
<div style="float:right; padding:15pt;">[[Image:wikipedemedium.jpg]] 
sketch 7-03
</div>
{{historical}}
'''Wikipede'''. He's a shy little bug who sits under trees and ''avoids'' controversy and conflict. He eats lollipops and drinks an occasional [[w:mate (beverage)|mate]], and though usually a devout vegetarian, he will from time to time have a nice juicy steak.

"Wikipede" belongs to the species ''Chilopoda wikiphiliae'' but goes by "''Kip.''" He has degrees in physics, philosophy, history, and veterinary medicine, but chooses to deny these trivial pursuits to devote his life toward making the world a better place, by spewing and sharing his knowledge on [[w:wikipedia|Wikipedia]].

Naturally, Kip is [[w:unemployed|unemployed]] and on the [[w:The_Dole|Dole]], though he searches
(halfheartedly, he admits) for work when he is not glued to recent changes in search of vandals and crackpot theory pushers. Kip has an annoying habit of speaking in the third person – for example, when asked by an editor if he could undelete several [[w:Gaia theory|Gaia theory]] articles, he stated '''"Kip is not your servant."'''

Although technically a centipede, a hundred legs is a bit much (even Kip thinks so), and thus Kip usually appears with far fewer legs/arms, normally about six or eight – sometimes seven. Six appendages seems to be the norm, and thus Kip is virtually indistiguishable from an ant. Kip thinks the political nonsense surrounding ant/centipede distinctions in this case is most likely due to [[w:speciesism|speciesism]], though a part of him is tempted to [[w:Blame Canada|blame Canada]].

==See also==

*[[w:Anthropomorphism|Anthropomorphism]]
[[Category:Wikipedia]]
[[Category:Humor]]

MediaWiki talk:Robots.txt

2018-08-28T02:54:34Z

Lojbanist: /* /trap/ */ new section

<div style="border:1px solid #000; margin:0em 1em; padding:5px; clear:both; background:#FF9;">
Although this page may be changed on an emergency basis (in emergencies), significant adds or removes should be brought here for discussion prior to enactment, especially if they change the philosophy of what is added or removed.
</div>

==thanks!==

Thanks, Kylu, for setting this up. ++[[User:Lar|Lar]]: [[User_talk:Lar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Lar|c]] 04:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

== Syntax error ==

This line needs to have a hash at the beginning:
<pre><pre></pre>
 – <code style="color:#4B0082; font-weight:bold;">[[User:Mike.lifeguard|mike]]@[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|meta]]:~$ </code> 19:13, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
:{{done}} (and now [http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Robots.txt&diff=prev&oldid=2925130 for real]). [[User:Trijnstel|Trijnstel]] 19:18, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

== /trap/ ==

What is this here for? [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 02:54, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects/Deletion of Simple English Wikiquote and Wikibooks

2018-08-27T23:34:57Z

Lojbanist: /* Oppose */

{{Closing project proposal|notice=[[simple:Wikipedia:Simple_talk#Proposal_to_delete_Simple_English_Wikiquote_and_Wikibooks|Simple English Wikipedia]], [[wikt:simple:Wiktionary:Simple_talk#Proposal_to_delete_Simple_English_Wikiquote_and_Wikibooks|Simple English Wiktionary]], [[en:Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Proposal to delete Simple English Wikiquote and Wikibooks|English Wikipedia]], [[wikt:en:Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2018/August#Proposal_to_delete_Simple_English_Wikiquote_and_Wikibooks|English Wiktionary]], [[b:en:Wikibooks:Reading_room/Proposals#Proposal_to_delete_Simple_English_Wikiquote_and_Wikibooks|English Wikibooks]] and [[q:en:Wikiquote:Village_pump#Proposal_to_delete_Simple_English_Wikiquote_and_Wikibooks|English Wikiquote]]|type=2|proposal=deletion|content=should be redirected to [[q:en:Main Page|English Wikiquote]] and [[b:en:Main Page|English Wikibooks]]
}}
I propose to delete the [[q:simple:Main Page|Simple English Wikiquote]] and [[b:simple:Main Page|Simple English Wikibooks]] because it makes no sense to host these projects that have been previously closed. Also, these projects won't be restarted or moved to Incubator because of new policies. I propose these wikis to be redirected to their regular English counterparts. [[User:Agusbou2015|Agusbou2015]] ([[User talk:Agusbou2015|talk]]) 22:37, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
:'''(from LangCom):''' Deletion is a pretty unusual remedy in most cases; we normally leave projects in place unless their presence is interfering with the overall mission of WMF. Can you give me reason consistent with [[CPP]] why we should delete these? [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 14:08, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

== Support ==
*'''Support''' - with the proviso it is crawled and archived by Wayback first. I can help arrange assuming they can/will. -- [[User:GreenC|GreenC]] ([[User talk:GreenC|talk]]) 23:27, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|GreenC}} Yes, there are many copies of these wikis crawled on Internet Archive. [http://web.archive.org/web/20090501000000*/simple.wikiquote.org] [http://web.archive.org/web/20070101000000*/simple.wikibooks.org] [[User:Agusbou2015|Agusbou2015]] ([[User talk:Agusbou2015|talk]]) 23:41, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
* On Wikibooks we already have [[b:Wikijunior]] to host this kind of content. On Wikiquote I can't see the interest of separating one author's quotes with only simple words on another site, but the purpose of this site is apparently more to translate every quote in simple terms, which will indeed, simplify their meanings too. [[User:JackPotte|JackPotte]] ([[User talk:JackPotte|talk]]) 08:36, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support deletion''' per GreenC if the wiki's content – including the latest dump file, all page revisions and diffs (if possible) – is stored on the Wayback Machine. I don't think there's much reason to keep permanently closed wikis around forever on WMF servers (unless attribution requires the existence of the original content at its original URL), and the useful content should have been repurposed on active wikis for a while now. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 10:45, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

== Oppose ==
*'''Disagree''' We deleted the Klingon and Siberian ones due to extraordinary circumstances. While we should never have made the Simple projects, it doesn't serve any good to actually delete them. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (ko'''a'''vf)]]❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯ 22:39, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
*Although I support them remaining closed, I see no reason to delete them. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 23:20, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
*No. Even though this is technically a seperate depate, I feel the substance of the debate will basically be the same as the most recent Simple closure debate. Either we are keeping the Simple projects, or we aren't. The consensus has been, we're keeping them. --[[User:Gordonrox24|Gordonrox24]] | [[User_talk:Gordonrox24|''Talk'']] 01:25, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
* Wiki is already closed, there is no valid reason for ''deletion'' besides ''"I don't like it"''. — regards, [[User:-revi|Revi]] 08:49, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
*No. Just, no. [[User:F1shster_ytp|f1shster]]
*There is no reason to delete it, it is already closed and moving it to the wayback machine would just be offloading the archiving of it to another service that could just disappear. It's better if its left how it is. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 15:11, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' deleting these wikis. If anything, they should be reopened. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 23:34, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

== Discussion ==
* <s>Wasn't a proposal to delete simple just closed? [[User:GreenMeansGo|GMG]][[User talk:GreenMeansGo|talk]]</s>
::{{ping|GreenMeansGo}} That earlier proposal was for the simple English versions of Wikipedia and Wiktionary. This is for the Wikiquote and Wikibooks. --[[User:Auntof6|Auntof6]] ([[User talk:Auntof6|talk]]) 23:51, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
:::Yes, I'm sorry. I started a comment striking my own comment but then I got a phone call. I don't have a strong opinion and don't really understand what it would take to reconstitute these projects if they were opened again from archives. [[User:GreenMeansGo|GMG]][[User talk:GreenMeansGo|talk]] 00:45, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
*''Makes no sense'' is a personal opinion and not sufficient reasoning to base a decision on. Some more detailed explanation of why it makes no sense would help. · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 05:46, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects

2018-08-07T20:07:04Z

Lojbanist: /* Open requests */

{{/header}}

===Open requests===
;Please add new requests to the END of the table below. 
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" width="95%"
! Proposal
! data-sort-type="date" | Request date
! Request closed on
! Status
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Move Beta Wikiversity to Incubator 2|Move Beta Wikiversity to Incubator 2]]
| type-of-proposal = Migration
| start= 2 July 2017
| status= discussion
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Wikispecies|Wikispecies]]
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 7 August 2018
| status= discussion
}}
|}

===Closed proposals===

Older closed proposals (prior to the introduction of the [[Closing projects policy]]) are listed on [[Proposals for closing projects/Archive]].

{| class="wikitable sortable" width="95%"
! Project
! data-sort-type="date" | Request date
! data-sort-type="date" | Request closed on
! Result
{{/proposal
| subpage = Simple English Wikipedia (3)
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 14 June 2018
| end = 1 August 2018
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Tok Pisin Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 06 July 2018
| end= 24 July 2018
| status= withdrawn
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Finnish Wikinews
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 22 April 2018
| end=2 July 2018
| status= Rejected in favor of a soft close.
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Literary Chinese Wikipedia|Literary Chinese Wikipedia]]
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 15 April 2018
| status= rejected
| end = 22 May 2018
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Karakalpak Wikipedia|Karakalpak Wikipedia]]
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 7 May 2017
| status= rejected
| end = 14 May 2018
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Romany Wikipedia|Romany Wikipedia]]
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 7 May 2017
| end = 13 May 2018
| status= Rejected, proposer didn't fulfill notification requirements.
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Zazaki Wikipedia|Zazaki Wikipedia]]
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 9 January 2017
| status= rejected
| end = 10 May 2018
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Deletion of Kanuri Wikipedia|Kanuri Wikipedia]]
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start= 9 May 2018
| end = 9 May 2018
| status = rejected
| custom = Rejected. Project remains closed, but was not deleted.
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks|Malagasy Wikibooks]]
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 20 February 2018
| status= rejected
| end = 23 April 2018
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Wikimedia Macedonia|Wikimedia Macedonia]]
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 2 April 2018
| status= rejected
| end = 13 April 2018
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Cebuano Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 23 October 2017
| end = 7 February 2018
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Kalmyk Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 4 February 2018
| end = 5 February 2018
| status = rejected
| custom = Rejected. Proposal speedy closed as disruptive.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Norwegian Wikinews 3
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 3 October 2016
| end = 28 November 2017
| status = Rejected in favor of a soft close.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Moldovan Wikipedia 2
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 4 January 2014
| end = 23 November 2017
| status = approved
| custom = Approved; project redirected to [[:ro:]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Moldovan Wiktionary
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 19 December 2015
| end = 23 November 2017
| status = approved
| custom = Approved; project redirected to [[:wikt:ro:]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Alemannisch Wiktionary, Wikibooks and Wikiquote
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start= 16 February 2017
| end = 23 November 2017
| status = approved
| custom = Approved; projects redirected to namespaces in [[:als:]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Bosanski Wikibooks
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 2 January 2015
| end = 22 November 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Lojban Wikipedia 2
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 28 October 2017
| end = 6 November 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Nahuatl Wikipedia 2
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 7 October 2017
| end = 6 November 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Taraskievica Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 20 September 2017
| end = 6 November 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Limburgish Wikibooks
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 13 March 2016
| end = 28 July 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Venda Wikipedia 2
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start= 06 February 2017
| end = 21 July 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Marshallese Wikipedia and Wiktionary
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 16 May 2015
| end = 20 July 2017
| status = rejected
| custom = Rejected. Projects remain closed, but were not deleted.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Afar Wikipedia, Wikibooks and Wiktionary
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 5 August 2016
| end = 20 July 2017
| status = rejected
| custom = Rejected. Projects remain closed, but were not deleted.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Hiri Motu Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 11 August 2016
| end = 20 July 2017
| status = rejected
| custom = Rejected. Project remains closed, but was not deleted.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Albanian Wikinews
| start= 11 February 2017
| end = 20 July 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals_for_closing_projects/Move_Beta_Wikiversity_to_Incubator|
Move Beta Wikiversity to Incubator]]
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 23 June 2013
| end = 1 July 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Ilocano Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 6 May 2017
| end = 29 June 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Chavacano Wikipedia
| start= 12 December 2015
| end = 15 April 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Belarusian Wikibooks (2)
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 13 March 2016
| end = 15 April 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Chamorro Wikipedia 2
| start= 21 March 2015
| end = 15 April 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Pitkern & Norfuk Wikipedia 2
| start= 29 November 2013
| end = 15 April 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Kirundi Wikipedia 2
| start= 21 October 2013
| end = 15 April 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Japanese Wikiversity
| start= 11 October 2013
| end = 15 April 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Lojban Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 31 October 2016
| end = 29 January 2017
| status = Rejected, proposer didn't fulfill notification requirements.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = wikimania2005
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 5 August 2016
| end = 13 August 2016
| status = rejected
| custom = Rejected. Project remains closed, but was not deleted.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Adyghe Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 16 March 2016
| end = 22 March 2016
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Persian Wikinews
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 17 June 2015
| end = 17 July 2015
| status = withdrawn
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Interlingue Wikibooks
| start = 31 July 2013
| end = 16 December 2014
| status = approved
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Old English Wikibooks 2
| start = 21 January 2013
| end = 16 December 2014
| status = approved
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia
| start = 6 October 2014
| end = 7 October 2014
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Wikipedia Masri (Egyptian Arabic Dialect)
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 14 April 2014
| end = 21 April 2014
| status = Rejected, proposer didn't fulfill notification requirements.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 26 February 2014
| end = 27 February 2014
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = brwikimedia
| start = 13 February 2014
| end = 14 February 2014
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Uzbek Wikibooks (2)
| start = 1 March 2013
| end = 22 July 2013
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wb/uz|Wb/uz]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Amharic Wikiquote 2
| start = 20 November 2012
| end = 22 July 2013
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wq/am|Wq/am]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Xhosa Wikipedia 2
| start = 4 April 2013
| end = 14 July 2013
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Norwegian Wikinews 2
| start = 26 March 2013
| end = 14 July 2013
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Min Nan Wikiquote (2)
| start = 24 September 2012
| end = 9 January 2013
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wq/nan|Wq/nan]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Inupiak Wiktionary
| start = 2 September 2012
| end = 9 January 2013
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wt/ik|Wt/ik]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Min Nan Wikisource 2
| start = 12 October 2012
| end = 31 December 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= English Wikinews
| start = 18 November 2012
| end = 19 November 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Min Nan Wikibooks
| start = 20 August 2012
| end = 29 September 2012
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wb/nan|Wb/nan]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Strategy Wiki
| start = 13 August 2012
| end = 29 September 2012
| status = approved
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Zhuang Wiktionary
| start = 20 June 2012
| end = 29 September 2012
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wt/za|Wt/za]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Simple English Wiktionary (3)
| start = 21 August 2012
| end = 19 September 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Lojban Wiktionary
| start = 11 June 2012
| end = 22 July 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Basa Sunda Wikibooks (2)
| start = 06 June 2012
| end = 22 July 2012
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wb/su|Wb/su]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Volapük Wikibooks
| start = 26 April 2012
| end = 27 May 2012
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wb/vo|Wb/vo]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Buryat Wikipedia
| start = 18 March 2012
| end = 25 April 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Chechen Wikipedia (3)
| start = 30 March 2012
| end = 15 April 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Zulu Wikipedia
| start = 25 January 2012
| end = 29 March 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = nzwikimedia
| start = 2 January 2012
| end = 29 March 2012
| status = approved
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Bosnian Wikinews - 2nd proposal
| start = 21 September 2011
| end = 29 February 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Hebrew Wikinews - 2nd request
| start = 31 August 2011
| end = 29 February 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Kazakh Wikibooks 2
| start = 20 July 2011
| end = 29 February 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = meta-wiki
| start = 19 February 2012
| end = 19 February 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Romany wikipedia
| start = 12 January 2012
| end = 16 February 2012
| status = Implemented as proposed (Indic script removed).
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = wikipedia ten
| start = 4 October 2011
| end = 17 December 2011
| status = approved
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Fiji Wikipedia 2
| start = 5 November 2011
| end = 13 November 2011
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Acehnese Wikipedia (4)
| start = 15 October 2011
| end = 15 October 2011
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Scots Wikipedia
| start = 21 August 2011
| end = 22 August 2011
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Old English Wikipedia
| start = 3 July 2011
| end = 22 August 2011
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Asturianu Wikibooks
| start = 2 July 2011
| end = 22 August 2011
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wb/ast|Wb/ast]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Inuktitut Wikipedia 2
| start = 1 July 2011
| end = 22 August 2011
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Xitsonga Wikipedia
| start = 18 July 2011
| end = 4 August 2011
| status = rejected
}}
|}


[[Category:Deletions and closings of projects]]

Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Wikispecies

2018-08-07T20:05:36Z

Lojbanist:

{{Closing project proposal|content=some wikifarm (ideally Miraheze, as it supports all the WMF extensions by default)|notice=[[wikispecies:Wikispecies:Village Pump#Closure proposal]]}}
Wikispecies is a failed project. It has failed at being multilingual: most of the pages are in English. It is redundant: most Wikipedia language projects have their own version of the "Taxobox" template. Take a look at [https://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Felis_silvestris_catus this Wikispecies page]. It is entirely in English, with info that is almost completely duplicated in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat en.wikipedia taxobox], except for a "vernacular names" section, which is redundant to Wiktionary (specifically, [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cat/translations#Noun the "translations" section on most pages]). As Wikispecies still has an active community, however, I propose moving its content to a wikifarm, instead of leaving it to rot. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 20:03, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Wikispecies

2018-08-07T20:04:58Z

Lojbanist:

{{Closing project proposal|content=some wikifarm (ideally Miraheze, as it supports all the WMF extensions by default)|notice=wikispecies:Wikispecies:Village Pump#Closure proposal}}
Wikispecies is a failed project. It has failed at being multilingual: most of the pages are in English. It is redundant: most Wikipedia language projects have their own version of the "Taxobox" template. Take a look at [https://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Felis_silvestris_catus this Wikispecies page]. It is entirely in English, with info that is almost completely duplicated in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat en.wikipedia taxobox], except for a "vernacular names" section, which is redundant to Wiktionary (specifically, [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cat/translations#Noun the "translations" section on most pages]). As Wikispecies still has an active community, however, I propose moving its content to a wikifarm, instead of leaving it to rot. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 20:03, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Wikispecies

2018-08-07T20:03:48Z

Lojbanist: Created page with "{{Closing project proposal|content=some wikifarm (ideally Miraheze, as it supports all the WMF extensions by default)|notice=wikispecies:Wikispecies:Village Pump#Closure propo..."

{{Closing project proposal|content=some wikifarm (ideally Miraheze, as it supports all the WMF extensions by default)|notice=wikispecies:Wikispecies:Village Pump#Closure proposal}}
Wikispecies is a failed project. It has failed at being multilingual: most of the pages are in English. It is redundant: most Wikipedia language projects have their own version of the "Taxobox" template. Take a look at [https://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Felis_silvestris_catus this Wikispecies page]. It is entirely in English, except for a "vernacular names" section, which is redundant to Wiktionary (specifically, [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cat/translations#Noun the "translations" section on most pages]). As Wikispecies still has an active community, however, I propose moving its content to a wikifarm, instead of leaving it to rot. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 20:03, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Simple English Wikipedia (3)

2018-06-30T17:27:31Z

Lojbanist: /* High participation from native English speakers, but... */

{{Closing project proposal|type = 2|content =English Wikipedia|notice=[[:simple:Talk:Main Page#This project is not reaching a target audience. Propose closure and integration with En Wiki]].}}
{{notice|'''Please keep in mind that all project closure discussions are advisory. The [[:m:Language committee|Language Committee]] and [[Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees|WMF Board]] make all final decisions on project closures.''' For LangCom: [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 19:56, 20 June 2018 (UTC)}}
 
==Proposal==
I will try to keep it simple, and the most simple TL;DR thing to say is - the king is naked and SEW is effectively useless. It was, certainly, a good intention (a project whose target audience are "people with different needs, such as students, children, adults with learning difficulties, and people who are trying to learn English".), but queue in the proverb about good intentions. More than 10 years on, there is no proof that the project is reaching its target audience; on the contrary, it is doubtful it is used by anyone - it's a curio visited by its small group of volunteers and occasionally some random person stumbles upon it, looks around bewildered, and heads back to the much more comprehensive English Wikipedia. I have been teaching students at university in English in South Korea, and not once have I found a student (or a single regular person in Korea or Poland, outside Wikipedia volunteers) who knows of this project. SEW does not show up in Google (or other) search engines, and remains a curiosity, known to some people in the Wikipedia movement - but, again, not to its intended audience.

Now, closure doesn't mean the end of the idea of helping special audiences. We can do it better - in the place which is known to those audiences, i.e. English Wikipedia itself. The best solution would be to integrate it into English Wikipedia through a new tab or prominent button. Nobody clicks on the SEW interlanguage link, and hence very few people, including SEW target audience of ESLs and other special audiences, is aware of it and benefits from the effort of SEW volunteers. So instead of the intuitive 'object, don't close my beloved project', please consider a conditional support 'close if En Wiki gets a new feature to showcase SE content'). INHO this would be the ideal outcome, and then this closure proposal, while put on hold, could be brought to WMF and En Wiki community to discuss how to implement such a feature.

Few other points.

How do you know almost nobody is using this project? Impact comparison: page views for Donald Trump on SE: 187 a day ([https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=simple.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&pages=Donald_Trump]), vs EN Wiki: 50,963
[https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&pages=Donald_Trump], so that's a ratio of 1:1000, roughly. If the project was used by ESLs, who outnumber native speakers by ~10x or so, those numbers would be widely different. But they are not.

Another dimension: SEW school projects list on average one educational project a year: [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Schools/Projects]. En wiki gets dozens if not hundreds of such projects every year ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:School_and_university_projects] is obsolete, but see [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/explore] for a newer version - note how many of those projects are from ESLs (through not all target En wiki)). The point here, is, again, that as a platform to engage ESL students, SEW has failed. Instructors who want to use Wikipedia in education will do so on normal Wikipedia, not on the obscure and unknown SEW.

But what about the claim from English Wikipedia that "Material from the Simple English Wikipedia forms the basis for One Encyclopedia per Child,[ a One Laptop per Child project"?
[[:en:One Laptop per Child]] is a nice imitative, but I have not been able to find any studies or data suggesting its use of SEW is significant. They have been using SEW content for 10+ years - without so much as a single academic study suggesting or confirming it is a good idea. Without scholarly analysis, we cannot say that SEW has educational benefits, one could just as well argue that it gives readers a dumbed down, poorly referenced/written version of content they need. If SEW was really useful, it would be more popular.

An overview of scholarly literature on SEW, again, does not show any indication that the project is useful to its target audience, the few academic papers that discuss it do so generally from the computer science/linguistics perspective, using its simplified word data set for some lingustica/cs analysis like: [https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2002865]. This suggests that the only real world group that finds some moderate use of this projects are a few lingustic/computer science scholars who have a new dataset to play with. While as a scholar myself I appreciate new data sets, I don't think a project whose only effective use is allowing few scholar to publish some obscure research is what we should be supporting.

What do we lose by allowing SEW to exist? There are few dozens if not hundreds volunteers involved in this project, creating content of very little, if any, impact. Their work should would be much more beneficial (to the entire world, including the SEW target audiences of ESLs and others, who - again - generally are not aware of SEW existence, and use En Wiki anyway) if it was incorporated with en Wiki. Some of those volunteers are clearly confused; just a few days ago I copied content from SEW about [[:en:Lee Sang-Bong]], an article that should've been created on en wiki, and that does not seem particularly 'simply written' to me. In addition to misdercting few hundred of volunteers into creating content of little impact, maintaining its infrastructure/views does consume some (if small) portion of WMF budget. Those donations are a limited resource, and even if this project effectively costs [insert random small sum here], this money could be spend on something that is actually useful to a wider group (ex. readers of English Wikipedia, which, yes, I am repeating myself, include majority of SEW target's audience).

It is also worth nothing that SEP suffers from spam. I run [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3Flinkcount%0Awith%20%7B%20%0A%20%20select%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3Fsitelink%20WHERE%0A%7B%0A%09%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ5%20.%0A%09%3Fsitelink%20schema%3Aabout%20%3Fitem%20.%0A%09%3Fsitelink%20schema%3AisPartOf%20%3Chttps%3A%2F%2Fsimple.wikipedia.org%2F%3E%20.%0A%20%20%20%7D%20%20%20%20%20%20%0A%7D%20as%20%25s%0Awhere%20%7B%0A%20include%20%25s%0A%20FILTER%20NOT%20EXISTS%20%7B%20%3Fwfr%20schema%3Aabout%20%3Fitem%20.%20%3Fwfr%20schema%3AinLanguage%20%22en%22.%20%7D%0A%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Fitem%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3FitemLabel.%20filter%28lang%28%3FitemLabel%29%3D%22en%22%29%7D%0A%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Fitem%20wikibase%3Asitelinks%20%3Flinkcount%20.%7D%20%0A%7D%0AORDER%20BY%20DESC%28%3Flinkcount%29 a query on Wikidata] for articles missing from En wiki that are on simple, and indicative - the first three hits were two deleted articles ([[:en:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amir Talai]], [[:en:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Maggard (3rd nomination)]]) and one that was a redirect ([[:en:Brenda Ann Spencer]]).

Bottom line, SEW volunteers may think they are helping ESLs or people with special needs, but they are not, because those people don't know about SEW. They are, therefore, sadly enough, effectively wasting their time. Once the project is merged to En Wiki and closed, they can continue their efforts to improve content of interest to those people, simplify jargon per MoS, or such, on En Wiki.

One final note. I intend no disrespect to the volunteers who created and maintain SEW. Their heart is in the right place, but I do believe that their efforts are misguided and end up creating a trivial site, not something that is useful to the people they intend to help. There is some value in simple explanations of articles, but if you consider [https://lifehacker.com/5935776/simple-english-wikipedia-makes-complex-subjects-easily-understandable] or [https://www.pcmag.com/article/351839/the-best-tools-to-improve-your-wikipedia-experience], note that they suggest that SEW is/should be a feature of English Wikipedia. To some degree, this is a feature issue, SEW simplified versions of articles would be much more useful if they could be accessed from some prominent button on English Wikipedia (nobody looks at the language links to find SEW link...). If SEW volunteers care about having an impact and getting their efforts to the target audiences, they should support this proposal, perhaps conditionally on En Wiki adding a new, prominent feature, something like 'read a Simple English version of this article'. The effective way of bringing SE content to the wider world has to be done through the site that the world uses (i.e. English Wiki). Ending on that hopefully more constructive thought, [[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 08:42, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

==Survey==
*{{s}} closing it. Simple is more effort than it is worth to maintain. I support maintaining it while we have it, but what it basically is now is a playground for vandals, spambots, LTAs, and people who have been blocked from various other WMF wikis to try to prove that they should be unblocked on their home wiki. It takes up more volunteer time than it provides value. For what it’s worth, en.wikinews is probably a better candidate for closing first, but simple still shouldn’t exist. Also, to the comments above about would we shut down other small language Wikis, well, that's the thing: Simple English isn't a language group. We already have a Wikipedia for English. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 17:17, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong Oppose''' It's viewed by over a half million people daily, has over 130,000 articles, and provides useful content for many. I see no reason to close it, and the vandal/LTA issue is managed without issue. There are vandals on all Wikipedias; it's no reason to warrant closing an entire project. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 17:49, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**It is when it causes disruption to the entire movement. Simple is a breeding ground for the worst parts of the internet. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 17:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Saying that it's a "breeding ground for the worst parts of the internet" is exaggerating the issue exponentially. It is not causing enough disruption to warrant closing the project. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 17:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Also keep in mind that although some LTA's may use it to vandalize people's talk pages and harass them, if this project is closed because of it the main effect will be the exact opposite of WP:DENY, as it'll give the LTA's a sense of victory, and all they'll do is move to another wiki. Just yesterday, I blocked an account on simple.wikipedia and they began harassing me by editing my commons and cy.wiki talk pages. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:43, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::'''comment''' view count in this context is pretty meaningless and should be taken with a grain of salt. Look at the spambot filters for any given project. [[User:Chrissymad|Chrissymad]] ([[User talk:Chrissymad|talk]]) 17:52, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Strong oppose''' — community is active, wiki can be useful for English starters. '''[[User:Marshmallych|M]]''' ''[[User talk:Marshmallych|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/Marshmallych|c]]'' 17:57, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}}. Very much for the reasons provided. I appreciate that editors have invested a lot of time building it, but in my opinion it has been time wasted. [[User:ToastButterToast|ToastButterToast]] ([[User talk:ToastButterToast|talk]]) 17:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Could I ask why this time is wasted? There are dozens of of other Wikipedias with a lot of volunteer time spent on it and mostly all of them have less of an audience than the SEW. Are you suggesting that closing down the Simple English Wikipedia, which will free up about 20 editors, is worth it? [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:02, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}} closing it. I've dabbled in Simple here and there and I've found it's highly inconsistent. What language is "simple" versus language that's, I don't know, overly complex? The spirit behind the idea was wonderful, but what's there is really just a mishmash of articles that aren't as well-written, detailed, or comprehensive as their enwiki counterparts, ''as an inherent limitation imposed by simplicity''. Eventually, when constructing an article in "simple" English, you reach a point where you either sacrifice complex details due to the limited vocabulary, or sacrifice simplicity in the interest of content. Compare for example [[:simple:Mourning dove]] (a "very good article") with [[:en:Mourning dove]] (also a featured article) - the two are practically indistinguishable, except that some of the language has been simplified in simplewiki, but not to the point that you'd expect a reader in Simple's target audience would not still have difficulty understanding the material. And once you get to that point, why not just direct that development to enwiki?
:On the other hand, the effort of creating a wiki that's easy to use on the project side is magnificent, and I do hope that at least some of the simplified terminology makes its way into enwiki. All of the pages linked from [[simple:Wikipedia:Rules]] are fantastic. [[User:Ivanvector|Ivanvector]] ([[User talk:Ivanvector|talk]]) 18:00, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::The article [[:simple:Mourning dove]] is in Simple English. Put the pages side-by-side, and you'll notice the distinct difference in phrasing and linking. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' closing. To put it mildly, simple.wiki is a joke. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 18:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - This isn't a zero-sum game in terms of resources. There is an active community of volunteers maintaining simplewp, and there are very little WMF or global community resources that need to be expended on maintaining it. It's true that simple English isn't a language, but I'm not concerned about that since the project has a dedicated community and reader base. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 18:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**But its not being maintained... That's the problem. It basically exists for LTAs to create accounts and harass people and a place for people who have been blocked in their home wikis to go and be toxic in hopes of getting unblocked later. None of that is good for the movement. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:20, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
***Closing the project won't resolve the problem - LTAs would just go to other wikis to create accounts and do the harassment, etc. This is not specific to simplewiki. Whether or not it's maintained, there are several sysops in the project and they should have an idea about this. -★- [[User:PlyrStar93|'''PlyrStar93''']] →[[User_talk:PlyrStar93|Message me. ]]← 18:36, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
****Yes; simple does a relatively good job compared with some other projects (*cough* enwikiversity *cough*) when dealing with the enwiki-banned crowd. Deleting simple won't remove that problem. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 19:00, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - While it is a niche project, it has it's place, especially for articles on the technical side. [[User:Tazerdadog|Tazerdadog]] ([[User talk:Tazerdadog|talk]]) 18:22, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}}, sadly. There are too many examples where it has been used to push a POV rejected here, with no real notice or oversight. [[User:JzG|JzG]] ([[User talk:JzG|talk]]) 18:41, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*:Could you provide an example, please? - If there are many, finding one shouldn't be difficult...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 18:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*::The lack of examples clearly undercuts the POV argument. I patrol new pages on Simple pretty often and as the admins there will attest am very quick to request deletion of any POV pushing, copyright infringement, or anything non-simple. --[[User:Gotanda|Gotanda]] ([[User talk:Gotanda|talk]]) 02:36, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}}--[[User:Ozzie10aaaa|Ozzie10aaaa]] ([[User talk:Ozzie10aaaa|talk]]) 18:45, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' closure of an active project. It’s well-used and the apparent issues about LTA doesn’t mean it needs closing. [[User:Aiken drum|Aiken drum]] ([[User talk:Aiken drum|talk]]) 18:53, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Without firmly dissucssed RFC on proposed merger. Closing the project to me would also send the wrong message to potential ESOL contributors. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 18:55, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''': per Vermont and Ajraddatz, this would be the closure of an active project that receives enough traffic to sustain itself. I fail to see a purpose behind that. [[User:Javert2113|Javert2113]] ([[User talk:Javert2113|talk]]) 18:58, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' If it isn’t getting through to it’s target audience then the solution is to ask the WMF for help in raising its progfile, not to shut it down. If there is a serious problem with trolls and LTA wingnuts to the extent that the local admin corps can’t handle it, the project should consider using flagged revisions as a solution. [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]] ([[User talk:Beeblebrox|talk]]) 19:02, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Weak oppose''' I think the points made by Piotrus are very good, as same with Ivanvector, but I think, all in all, SEW still has its place, and a legitimate one for sure. It could do with some TLC, but not closing. [[User:My name is not dave|My name is not dave]] ([[User talk:My name is not dave|talk]]) 19:17, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The SEW could use a lot of work, but it's not a net negative. I don't think closing it is necessary at this point. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 19:31, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' if it needs improvement, let's suggest how to improve it. This reminds me of an AFD where the principle vote to delete is "I don't like it". With 500,000 hits a day, it's far from dead (unlike, say, Wikinews). And like AFD, we can simply work on improving it rather than consigning it to the annals of history. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 19:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support merge''' – The key quality of Simple English wp is to offer an easily-accessible summary of each topic, rather than the comprehensive, and sometimes dense, en-wiki articles. Compare this to the lede section of an enwiki article, which when well-written should effectively convey the essentials about the subject matter. A reader can skim Wikipedia and get a fairly basic understanding of anything by just reading the lede sections. In that spirit, I would very much support the OP's suggestion of a new tab in enwiki that would show the "simple" version of the article. This could be edited together with the main article, provided some technical markup mechanism is devised (a few templates and scripts could probably do the job without changing mediawiki code). This would elegantly resolve all issues:
:# More visibility for the simple-English versions of articles;
:# Harnessing volunteer work by Simple English editors;
:# Incentivizing the general population of English-language editors to keep simple-English versions up to date;
:# Easier policing thanks to advanced anti-vandalism tools and legion of admins working on enwp.
:In summary, a merge looks beneficial to everybody. [[User:JFG|JFG]] ([[User talk:JFG|talk]]) 19:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:*'''Strongly oppose merge''' - The quality of the articles on simple.wiki is such that any merge with en.wiki would be detrimental to the reputation and integrity of en.wiki. There is simply not the time or the manpower available to take on the task of bringing simple.wiki up to the standards expected at en.wiki. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 00:14, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}} closing. Idea is fine, but execution problematic (as usual). —[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] [[User_Talk:Beetstra|T]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|C]] (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 19:50, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
** [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/I_love_socking]. —[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] [[User_Talk:Beetstra|T]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|C]] (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 20:28, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Blocked. Thanks for reporting it. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 20:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - The project fills an important niche. If it suffers from lack of visibility, per [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]], deletion is not the solution. As with '''any''' wiki, there are problems, some unique to the project. However, closing the project would be tantamount to shooting the horse over a thrown shoe. You can supplement whatever anecdote your feel most comfortable with. The wisdom still applies. Lets address and improve or correct the problems. This, of course, will require those saying there are problems to specifically identify the problems they refer to. [[User:Operator873|Operator873]] ([[User talk:Operator873|talk]]) 19:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose-ish''' — I like having a simple version of articles available for when I don't understand the normal one. I don't normally read it, but when I have needed it it has been helpful to me. Changing it to a tab of EnWP could work (since I'm just a reader, not an editor there, I don't really care one way or the other regarding where the content is, as long as I can read it when I want it). [[User:Goldenshimmer|Goldenshimmer]] ([[User talk:Goldenshimmer|talk]]) 20:07, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support closure''' No obvious supporting evidence of significant historical development, no likelihood of future development, project is a liability of lower quality information due to lack of critical mass of participants and engagement, failure to establish consensus for what "Simple English" manual of style the project will use among various competing off-wiki standards, highly defensive community culture which keeps the project inaccessible for editors as a way to protect the project (for example, no WikiProjects or community meeting spaces allowed), high likelihood of dissatisfaction among participants, low recruitment rate of new regular editors, no plan for change in the foreseeable future. We do have prospect of reform for a next generation project and that is the use of Wikidata to automatically translate structured data basics into simple Wikipedias of all languages. I would advise anyone who wants to advance the future of plain language Wikimedia projects to engage with Wikidata as the most stable, highest impact use of time and labor. Wikidata has a high satisfaction rate among participants. The Reasonator Wikidata / Wikipedia prototype is very encouraging as a Simple English Wikipedia replacement. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 20:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::To address your arguments: A lack of many editors is not a reason to close a Wikipedia. There are not multiple competing off-wiki standards as to the quality of content, as you imply. Your assertion that WikiProjects and community meeting spaces are not allowed is simply false. Although WikiProjects are very rarely in project namespace, there are many in userspace, and we also have [[:simple:WP:ST]] for community discussions. I don't see what you mean by "high likelihood of dissatisfaction among participants." You don't have much of an editing history there, so have you conducted a poll or some other sort of means by which to find that information? Regarding a plan for change in the forseeable future, the viewership of the SEW has continually been increasing over the years (significant historical development), we have recently been gaining more active editors, and although we aren't planning any drastic changes, there are none required. The usual policy/guideline discussions happen, and your description implies that the Simple English Wikipedia is a small, inactive wiki with a few sad editors. The rest of your comment seems like an advertisement for machine translation, and that's a whole 'nother discussion. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:36, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Vermont}} This is not the place or an appropriate channel to go through all of this but I stand by what I said. If you want to talk then we can video or voice chat and take notes or record.
:::Most of my conversation has been off-simple in the context of other projects, including [[:en:Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Translation_task_force]], [[Internet-in-a-Box]], [[Wikipedia:Education program]] and various discussions about writing styles. All of these projects need plain English content but Simple English Wikipedia is unable to meet any of the needs of these programs. Yes, I have had 1:1 conversations with at least 100 people about plain language solutions for Wikimedia projects, and yes, I know that Simple English Wikipedia is not meeting the needs of users in this space.
:::About WikiProjects - can you [[:en:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject|resolve this issue]] for me and let people make WikiProjects or community project pages? Every other Wikimedia project allows community project pages. Simple English Wikipedia prohibits community organizing. This is so strange! Simple English Wikipedia turns away so many potential collaborations! Why do you turn people away? Can you flip the switch and allow community projects?
:::The community of people developing Simple English Wikipedia content is greater and more active off-Simple English Wikipedia than on Simple English Wikipedia. Yes, there could be a debate about whether structured data is the future, but there can be no debate about the number of people and amount of resources advancing that idea versus human-written Simple Wikipedia text. Much, much more attention and effort to produce a Simple English Wikipedia is going in directions other than to Simple English Wikipedia as it exists now. I know lots of people who have had conflicts with Simple English Wikipedia, but I am not aware of anyone from Simple English Wikipedia bringing value to any plain language project elsewhere. Please get anyone from Simple English Wikipedia to help these other projects or be more inviting of collaboration.
:::Yes, there are multiple competing standards of manuals of style. Various university programs [http://www.healthresearchforaction.org/health-literacy-communications like this one at Berkeley] do things like plain language translations, develop standardized vocabularies for technical jargon, present limited vocabulary lists, and offer algorithms for readability metrics. There is not a standard in Simple English Wikipedia. Someone could use one plain language manual of style and it be very simple, and another person could use another and it be too complicated. Simple English Wikipedia does not host conversations to resolve this. I would not mind a debate but it is not asking too much to set some minimal expectations of what is and is not appropriate. It really hurts to submit something and get rejected due to an individual asserting a personal preference when Simple English Wikipedia has no manual of style. Matching with a single academic definition of "Simple English" could resolve this, but instead, anything goes and there is too much arbitrary rejection.
:::Simple English Wikipedia is a liability with serious problems. If it is not closed it needs serious urgent reform and strong leadership. The WMF has money. If anyone in Simple can get organized or get an institutional partner they should apply for a US$100k grant ASAP because the volunteer only unfunded administration is not working. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 14:20, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
::::I'm sorry, when you said "manual of style" I thought you meant [[:simple:Wikipedia:Manual of Style]]. What you apparently mean is the language, which is defined quite well at [[:simple:WP:HOW]], of which there is strong consensus over. Despite what one may think when reading your argument, people are not coming on top of eachother quoting from different plain English translations. It's pretty well-established. Now, onto the misconception of WikiProjects. We do have editors collaborating and communicating. Your claim that "Simple English Wikipedia prohibits community organizing" is blatantly false. We have [[:simple:WP:ST]], which is our version of the Village Pump, where editors can discuss topics. We ''do'' have WikiProjects, except they are located in userspace rather than project-space. Because of there only being around 30 active editors, large-scale WikiProjects in project space are unnecessary. For example, I had my own WikiProject that gathered 12 volunteers, where we did edit categorizing to help enable ORES on the Simple English Wikipedia. The goal was reached, ORES is now enabled, and the WikiProject shutdown. When I made that project, I was new (about a week at SEW) and was still highly active on en.wiki. There is no anti-change group of people deciding what happens, nor are new editors being turned away. If we did allow people to create WikiProjects directly to Wikipedia: namespace, it's not as though dozens of new editors would magically spring up. Also, you said that both "The community of people developing Simple English Wikipedia content is greater and more active off-Simple English Wikipedia than on Simple English Wikipedia" as well as "Much, much more attention and effort to produce a Simple English Wikipedia is going in directions other than to Simple English Wikipedia as it exists now. I know lots of people who have had conflicts with Simple English Wikipedia, but I am not aware of anyone from Simple English Wikipedia bringing value to any plain language project elsewhere." To me, this sounds contradictory, so I ask you to clarify this. I also ask you how you can be sure of: "I know that Simple English Wikipedia is not meeting the needs of users in this space." If this were so, would viewship not decline? It's been steadily increasing for the last few years. Also, regarding the last bit of your message, how do you think the WMF's money or a grant could help reform the SEW? I strongly support reforms, although my ideal is more of a multiple-month-long copyediting/simplification drive. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 17:21, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Vermont}} Thanks for continuing the conversation. I will start with the money issue. Historically Wikimedia projects have operated in money scarcity, and the rule was that anything could happen so long as no money entered play. Nowadays money is not scarce, and the WMF and community are eager to trade money for more quality, participants, and better user experience.
:::::I am mixing fact with opinion in what I say. If I made a wish with money, then it would be for someone to be funded to organize some necessary community conversations, do a survey, and post some results. Although volunteers can do this sometime, SEW does not have the labor pool or participant base to do this. I appreciate the regular volunteers at the project but considering the size of the audience their 30 opinions and views are marginal. Plain language Wikimedia content is a really big deal for millions of people.
:::::I insist on WikiProjects because other Wikimedia projects have them. I do not accept that the prohibition on WikiProjects is thoughtful and SEW adopts other strange rules which have to do with its small user base trying to prohibit the influx of new users who might upset the local order. I do not agree that SEW should be able to make local rules that do not align with other Wikimedia projects. The lack of WikiProjects is a barrier to me and to a demographic of users.
:::::I can recognize that SEW has a manual of style but I disagree that it is coherent. The obvious thing to do would be for SEW to adopt an academic and well-defined existing manual of style. If professionals, academics, and people who go to Simple English trade conferences have established norms and processes, then SEW should follow that precedent until and unless there is a good reason to not do this. It is problematic when a professional writer trained to use simple English comes to Simple English Wikipedia and finds that there is another manual of style there. This needs a conversation with a mediator and if no volunteer can commit the probably 100+ hours to coordinate the right discussion then getting a paid administrator to do this is urgent. There are other conversations to have too.
:::::I acknowledge increased reader demand but I do not recognize that as a show of support for SEW as it exists now. The demand would remain even after a reform. The most obvious upcoming reform will be inclusion of infoboxes from Wikidata. Simple English infoboxes are the precursor to Simple (every language) infoboxes, and it is also urgent to have simple versions of every language. Right now the politics of SEW might be a barrier to delivering simple content in other languages.
:::::I said that demand for simple wiki content is increasing. Lots of people ask for it. For example, [http://www.nfais.org/index.php?option=com_mc&view=mc&mcid=72&eventId=546756 this talk next week] will have a physician talking about it. The problem is that SEW uses a style which is unlike the professional and academic standard of simple English. Without a reconciliation this simple content will get developed elsewhere, like in subpages of English Wikipedia, through Wikidata, or off wiki. I want a Simple English Wikipedia; I just want it to be friendlier and more aligned with the off-wiki professional expectations of Simple English and to collaborate with other Wikimedia projects. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 18:34, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
{{od}}
I agree with you that it would be beneficial to more clearly define the Manual of Style, but I must assert that your conception of how WikiProjects operate on SEW is incorrect. There is no ban on WikiProjects or user collaboration, nor is there a volunteer culture on SEW that acts that way. See the [[:simple:Wikipedia:WikiProject#Current WikiProjects|list of WikiProjects]]. I also disagree strongly that there are rules "trying to prohibit the influx of new users who might upset the local order." If you perceive this, what rules do you refer to? [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 19:08, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|Vermont}} If I move [[:simple:User:Bluerasberry/WikiProject Medicine]] to [[:simple:Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine]] then will you give your support for that and for anyone else to start any WikiProject in the way that other Wikimedia projects allow WikiProjects? If at least you got good support for WikiProjects to be community projects rather than user projects then I would change my opposition here. I see Simple English Wikipedia as a bleak project without a change to begin inviting more community organization and collaboration. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 14:24, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Lean oppose''' I feel arguments for closing could be applied to the other wikis patrolled by [[Small Wiki Monitoring Team]]. I could be convinced to support the closure if there were more argument about why the reasons for closure are unique to the simple English wikipedia. [[User:Billhpike|Billhpike]] ([[User talk:Billhpike|talk]]) 20:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**Sure: Simple English is not an actual language, and we already have a Wikipedia in English that doesn’t have any of these problems. It provides no actual value while consuming significant global resources. This is different from other small projects where they are the only Wikipedias in their language. Simple is a fine concept that doesn’t work. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 21:01, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*** How much administrative work on SEW is done by editor's who primarily contribute to another wiki? I looked at [[simple:Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser]] and it appears that most issues were handled by local check users / admins. Some of the replies were less then timely, but SEW is hardly the only wiki with a CU backlog. [[User:Billhpike|Billhpike]] ([[User talk:Billhpike|talk]]) 22:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
***How do you define ''language''? - There is a Wikipedia in Afrikans, which can also be seen a version of Dutch...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 21:42, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
****It's not supposed to be ''a language''. See [[simple:Simple_English_Wikipedia]].[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 22:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' — Just two days ago I wrote, not knowing of this proposal, that simple-English Wikipedia is neither read, edited, updated nor even serves the purpose that it intends to [[:en:Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles#Digression:_simple.wikipedia.org]]. The lack of editors and lack of community, as well as lack of interested readership causes its articles to be out of date, and in many cases of very poor quality. Neither does it adequately serve the purpose it intends to serve, with articles only marginally more readable, and oftentimes less readable than leads on en-wiki.
:''simple-wiki risks acting as an excuse to deprioritize clarity and unambiguous expression on en-wiki'', which may seem unintuitive, but is a defence I've come across far too many times. '''Closing simple-wiki could bring editors versed in writing simply back to en-wiki, and would send a clear signal that Wikipedia is for everyone''', not just those who can read at a post-graduate level.
:We need simple writing, and that is why we don't need simple-wiki. Wikipedia's articles vary, some more amenable to simple language, but all can benefit from the work of editors who can express themselves tersely. '''Even very complex topics need well written and easy to understand introductions.''' [[User:CFCF|Carl Fredrik]][[User talk:CFCF| 💌]] [[Special:EmailUser/CFCF|📧]] 22:04, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::If closed, the amount of editors it would bring to en-wiki is insignificant, if any. As you said, there is a very small editing force, and thus articles, especially in constantly updating fields like medicine, are not always up to date. But, outdatedness is not a reason to close a project; if it were, the majority of small wikis would have reason to be closed. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::While the number of editors that move may be low, it will act as a strong indication that writing simply is important — and that even editing with the sole intention to simplify difficult language on en-wiki — is not only acceptable, but highly desirable. I think you underestimate the amount of good you could do in a WikiProject Simple English. [[User:CFCF|CFCF]][[User talk:CFCF| 💌]] [[Special:EmailUser/CFCF|📧]] 22:26, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Is your idea to make a simple namespace on enwiki? If not, how would you integrate the content, if at all? Thanks, [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:37, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Seems harmless. I don't think that closing Simple would automatically mean that its contributors would take up some other Wikimedia project. Some might leave the project altogether, including some who currently work on multiple projects. I would think, perhaps, that a reasonable alternative would be to limit the ''coverage'' of the project to, say, a hundred-thousand vital topics in clearly defined areas, to avoid spamming of a less patrolled project. [[User:BD2412|''BD2412'']] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 22:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. It's #51 on the list of Wikipedias. Are we also shutting down the smaller ones? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 22:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Closure and integration are two different things. The proposal is not well-developed. We have other considerations such as the mobile view and wikidata. Integration of these linked projects might be sensible but there is not a good structure for this currently. In the current chaotic way of doing things, competition is healthy in providing alternative approaches. [[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew D.]] ([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 22:32, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per TonyBallioni and CFCF '''--'''[[User:علاء |Alaa ]] [[User_talk:علاء |:)..!]] 22:33, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support in principle.''' At the current point Simple English Wikipedia simply does not fit in the grand scheme of things: it is not a separate language, it was a good idea some years ago to have such project that would have articles that are easier to understand for people, but right now it is the only exception among more than 300 language versions that we have. Simple X projects get frequently rejected, Simple English projects (there’s also Wiktionary, btw) sits there alone in a complete limbo. Don’t think we should completely delete it or disband the active community, but the opposite, if that is applicable: narrow down its idea to something like [[Wikikids]], which is already being developed in some languages and even [[:eu:Txikipedia:Azala|functions as a sub-project of Basque Wikipedia]], reformat the project, make it Wikimedia-level initiative and allow the communities to grow under a new brand and under Wikimedia movement’s umbrella. Then it wouldn’t be sticking out like a sore thumb, but rather would allow us to do something bigger on the basis of established project. (I don’t know how well other language versions of such project would do, I just think that it is very hypocritical to keep Simple English Wikipedia and force other projects to do workarounds if they want to work on something similar on their own.) [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 22:44, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
** To add in response to some points above: the place in list of Wikipedias shouldn’t mean anything, because other wikis, even if they are the smallest of them all, still represent a corpus in respective languages. Simplewiki is the only project that does not, so it is not correct to compare it with ''language'' editions in any way. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 22:53, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Strong Oppose''' Simple is useful to new english speakers, such as people who have never spoken english before. I agree that it needs some work - but it is not enough to warrent closing it. '''[[User:Xenrose|Xenrøse]]''' • '''[[User talk:Xenrose|T]]''' 22:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per TonyBallioni and CFCF .Simple English is not a separate language further it is not clear or there is no evidence how Simple English Wikipedia helps starters or that it has a separate audience or that new English speakers benefit from it there are thousands of articles in English Wikipedia which use simpler English than Simple Wikipedia or what is the benefit of having a separate Wikipedia that English Wikipedia does not cover.[[User:Pharaoh of the Wizards|Pharaoh of the Wizards]] ([[User talk:Pharaoh of the Wizards|talk]]) 23:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Rather than using the ambiguous "thousands", could you provide examples? From my experience, the English Wikipedia is almost always significantly more complex than it's SEW counterpart-article, and when it isn't they're of equal simplicity. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 23:43, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support closure''' per TonyBallioni. From admittedly brief research it seems that Simple acts more as a playground for LTA users and sockmasters ([https://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:LovelyGirl7&action=history At least one of which immediately identified themselves as such...?]) rather than a useful project. As has been stated, this is nothing to do with closing down small language wikis, as simple English isn't a discrete language. [[User:Firefly|ƒirefly]] ( [[User talk:Firefly|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Firefly|c]] · [[en:User:Firefly/who|who?]] ) 23:19, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Many LTA's edit on the Simple English Wikipedia after their socks had been blocked on the English Wikipedia. With the specific example of LovelyGirl7, see [[:simple:User:Vermont/Reports/LovelyGirl7]]. A lot of my work (which I would be doing even if SEW didn't exist) is anti-LTA. It's not as large of an issue as many make it out to be. Most are blocked within an hour of their first edit, and with few exceptions, their edits are not left for any period of time. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 23:37, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' basically per TonyBallioni, Ivanvector and CFCF. It would be better to dedicate the effort to making enwiki more accessible, or other language versions more complete than continue with what amounts to a poorly-defined content fork, which is frequently used as the playground of LTAs. [[User:Stwalkerster|stwalkerster]] ([[User talk:Stwalkerster|talk]]) 23:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per Vermont and Eptalon. [[User:Jared837|Jared837]] ([[User talk:Jared837|talk]]) 00:00, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Weak oppose''': I think ideas of integration with enwp are interesting, and were something concrete suggested I might agree with it (e.g. having another tab at the top of the browser view so it reads "Article | Simplified article | Talk"). But I don't think shutting down the project would be helpful, particularly without any specific plans of what to do with the content. Also, volunteers can work on whatever they want, and all who edit Simple are choosing to do so (though I concede perhaps a few are misguided in their thoughts of how helpful their edits to Simple are). {{pb}} I'm slightly in two minds because from what I've seen, the Simple English Wikipedia is not of particularly consistent quality and doesn't always have great prose. Then again, I'm not the target audience. As for how well-known a thing it is, I think it's fairly obscure but I've had the (''very'') occasional article pop up in the first few Google results for a term, and I once overheard someone in high school telling their friend that if they clicked the "Simple English" link in the sidebar, it would "simplify the article". — [[User:Bilorv|Bilorv]] ([[User talk:Bilorv|talk]]) 00:46, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The opening premise of the proposal that "it is doubtful it is used by anyone" can be debunked pretty quickly. It's had more than [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&start=2015-07&end=2018-05&sites=simple.wikipedia.org 15 million readers per month since September 2017] and the number of page views has been increasing steadily since 2015. I'm surprised it's that high, but evidently people are finding it somehow. Maybe it would be worth surveying the ''readers'' about whether their needs are being served by simple Wikipedia before we consider closing it. [[User:Richard Nevell|Richard Nevell]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell|talk]]) 01:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' unless there is a a clear, well-defined and realistic plan of including the "new tab or button" as mentioned. Also disagree that it is merely a playground for vandals, since there is an [[simple:User:ChenzwBot|anti-vandal bot]], [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T182012 ORES support] and fairly active admins for a wiki of its size. [[User:Darylgolden|Darylgolden]] ([[User talk:Darylgolden|talk]]) 01:48, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Is this Wiki taking up too much bandwidth or something? I also want to mention that this has already been nominated twice for deletion in the past. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 02:37, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per Piotrus, TonyBallioni, Ivanvector, and CFCF. [[User:Double sharp|Double sharp]] ([[User talk:Double sharp|talk]]) 04:15, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per the rather thorough opposing arguments listed above. Any of the issues raised by the opposing arguments above can be solved without closing the project. If a merge does happen though, a separate <code>Simple:</code> namespace should probably be the method of consolidating the content. — AfroThundr ([[User:AfroThundr3007730|u]] · [[User talk:AfroThundr3007730|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/AfroThundr3007730|c]]) 05:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. Simple.wp is not achieving its mission. If you pick random articles from that site and run them through readability tests, they generally fail for the target audience level, most of them are woefully inadequate, are outdated in the cases where currency of the information is an issue, and many are full of unsourced and even patently false (i.e. vandalism) claims. The site is disused by readers, and has too small an editorial base to ensure even basic accuracy and other quality measures. It would make more sense for some combination of various forms of [[w:en:Simple English|Simple English]] to be integrated into en.WP itself, perhaps as a sidebar option. The large editorial base at the main English Wikipedia is in a much better position to create and maintain "translations" of full-English articles into a simplified form of the language. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 06:31, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*:Last month the site received [https://stats.wikimedia.org/v2/#/simple.wikipedia.org 18 million views from 7.8 million unique devices]. How do you define 'disuse by readers'? [[User:Richard Nevell|Richard Nevell]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell|talk]]) 07:32, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose closure''' there are active editors and readers on this wikipedia, so I see no reason to close. A different amount of completeness to the EN WP is no reason to close. Unless there are severe widespread systemic problems, which I haven't read from above, this decision should be determined by editors from within said wikipedia, not canvassed editors from the EN WP. --[[User:Tom (LT)|LT910001]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 10:00, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong Oppose''' Used it plenty in my younger years and it definitely has its place. Very useful when new English speakers don't understand the en-wp article, they can simply hop over to simple. --[[User:Treetear|Treetear]] ([[User talk:Treetear|talk]]) 14:47, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' As what Piotrus, TonyBallioni, Ivanvector, and CFCF said. [[User:TomasTomasTomas|TomasTomasTomas]] ([[User talk:TomasTomasTomas|talk]]) 15:41, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' There is no good reason for closing a wiki that is still working towards its goals. It is unfair to compare it directly with English Wikipedia when really its equivalent would be more like 2006 English Wikipedia. The progress of simple is a lot slower than English because it has 30 regular editors at best vs. 10s of thousands on the other. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 16:54, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' It doesn't seem to me as if closing it will solve any problem, and I'm also concerned about procedure - we're discussing shutting down a wiki other than the one we contribute to. I don't see any compelling reason to close here. [[User:SportingFlyer|SportingFlyer]] ([[User talk:SportingFlyer|talk]]) 17:50, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Simple.wiki has problems - I think everyone can agree on that - but I don't believe it's problems have risen to the point where closing the project would be a net positive to Wikimedia as a whole. Perhaps this proposal will serve as a call to Simple.wiki that change needs to happen, and I hope that the wider Wikimedia community can pull together to help support Simple fix its problems. - [[User:There'sNoTime|TNT]][[User talk:There'sNoTime|❤]] 17:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' This is simply a solution looking for a problem. The arguments for support are unconvincing, especially [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]]'s claim that simple is just a breeding ground for LTAs. Shutting that down won't stop them, they'll just move to some other small wiki and set up show there. Hell, even the test wikis can be the same breeding grounds. Arguments of little readership are also unconvincing. Views aren't everything, but views by unique devices is something different, and that number is also fairly high. The only argument the convinces me a little is the fact that the community there is out-manned and quality is suffering, but the same could be said for roughly 600 other WMF projects. Are we to close those down too?—[[:en:User:Cyberpower678|'''CYBERPOWER''']] ([[:en:User talk:Cyberpower678|Chat]]) 17:59, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
**Yes, but it also literally has NO positive characteristics at all and actively harms it’s readers by diverting them in wikis where the information is better conveyed in their own language. It’s the epitome of Anglophone arrogance to assume that people would rather read substandard English than their own language. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:19, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
***I wouldn't say no positive characteristics. What English has over all other languages is that it's the universal language when communicating internationally, especially true among airline pilots. People who are trying to learn that language tend to try and learn the simple stuff in a language first, and then move on to the more complex stuff. Simplewiki can be used as a stepping stone in such instances.—[[:en:User:Cyberpower678|'''CYBERPOWER''']] ([[:en:User talk:Cyberpower678|Chat]]) 18:24, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
****I still think this is an exceptionally arrogant way to view it, and also think that isn’t the purpose of an encyclopedia. There are many better ESL resources out there and I see no value at all in the project and active harm coming from it in multiple ways. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:28, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*****Aside from the LTAs, can you give specifics as to how this is harmful?—[[:en:User:Cyberpower678|'''CYBERPOWER''']] ([[:en:User talk:Cyberpower678|Chat]]) 18:30, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*****Tony, we're not suggesting that people should learn English from SEW, or that they should abandon their native language wikis for SEW. We're just supporting that a Wikipedia using simpler English is beneficial and useful to many. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:36, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
****Not only is it used as a stepping stone, but for many smaller language wiki's the Simple English article is simply bigger and more detailed. And for those who don't have a firm grasp on English easier to read then a complex one. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 18:32, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
******By not directing people to projects that would better serve their needs and giving them a poorly done knock-off of en.wiki. No one wants to read non-standard English. Readers aren’t served by this project and people who need information are done a disservice. Simple only exists for people from other Wikipedia projects to mess around with. If we’re fine with it, let’s just say that, not pretend it actually helps readers. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:36, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*****{{od}} Do you know where most of those people who "mess" with the Simple English Wikipedia come from, Tony? EN. When they're indefinitely banned. We get seen as a dumping ground for all the trash that doesn't fit into the complicated version of Wikipedia, i.e, en.wiki. It would serve us all a hell of a lot better if communication between the two was such that when problems occurred with users there, we would get to know about them and be ready. But the attitude of EN's editors has always been that we're a second class, second rate service which doesn't do what it set out to do. Merging the Simple English Wiki into en.wp will not work - period. A better way would be to teach all of the English Wikipedia editors to write so that EVERYBODY can understand their articles, not just the proportion who are either native speakers or have English degrees to back them up. [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 16:26, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{o}} closing it, this is useful to people who not have learned regular english and need to learn better, but the wiki is small and maybe also be closed.[[Special:Contributions/46.227.72.88|46.227.72.88]] 18:14, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{Oppose}} Just because there are problems, that does not mean that a simple closure is the solution. Instead of saying that there are problems and wanting to close a project which works for many users, why not instead focus on addressing these problems? You say that no one knows about Simple Wikipedia, well maybe we should focus on informing people. Or there are mentions of LTAs; other measures can be taken in order to fix this. Simple Wikipedia has worked for many people for years, and there are still many volunteers willing to keep the project running, so I don't see any good reason for a closure. Also, why close this wiki when there are many more way smaller wikis, struggling with the same issues? Another question: what would we achieve with the closure of Simple? I don't think diverting editors to Enwiki would work, since usually people who edit on Simple choose to, in order to help users who do not know such well English, or maybe because the editors themselves don't. [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 19:45, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Think there could be more effective ways, in terms of time and resources, to help the target audience of SEW than what the project is doing now. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 20:04, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Lean towards opposition to closing''' of the Simple English Wikipedia. The Simple English Wikipedia has its place as an accessible encyclopedia for children or for people who do not speak English as a first language. [[User:Vorbee|Vorbee]] ([[User talk:Vorbee|talk]]) 20:36, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Weak oppose''' - many arguments for closing it are valid, but I am afraid that saying "we should close it because it's constantly getting vandalised or spammed" is basically giving the vandals a sweet victory. They were trying to destroy the project for long time and now you let them have it? If anything - project being vandalised should never be a valid reason to close it. On other side it's true that this project is probably not very useful for target audience. But - it still is useful for the community. Many administrators of English wikipedia start as admins on simple wikipedia, where they learn to use the tools properly and prove they can be trusted with them. Sometimes you can even see in RfA on enwiki that users who aren't getting support are told to try to apply on simplewiki first to get more reputation and skills. Because the community is so small, it's way less conservative than enwiki, so deployment of new software features is much easier on simple wiki. I know it sounds like it's a sandbox for English Wikipedia, but keep in mind that wikipedia started just as sandbox for nupedia as well, and look what it became ;) simplewiki is maybe not useful for target audience right now, but it cost basically no money to operate it, its small community enjoy to maintain it, and devs like to use it as a sandbox for actual wikipedia. So I definitely can't agree that it's not useful at all, or that it's "too much effort to maintain it". There are volunteers who enjoy maintaining it. [[User:Petrb|Petrb]] ([[User talk:Petrb|talk]]) 21:40, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. I don't personally think simple is good for much, but the arguments that it's actually harmful are just not convincing. Let people who find it valuable put their work where they choose. If some of them are people who would be banned from en.wiki, well, who cares? I might feel differently depending on how much of a resource drain it is, but if it's a resource drain, let the Foundation tell us that. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 21:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''based on LTA abuse. With recent experience of LTA abuse, I can say we can manage LTAs case by case. A fast block (duck) is enough to contain the harm. '''No opinions''' on other issues.--[[User:Cohaf|Cohaf]] ([[User talk:Cohaf|talk]]) 22:22, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' unless there are concrete and realistic plans for a merger of ENWP and SEWP rather than wafer-thin suggestions. Lest we have forgotten, we are talking about volunteers, not paid staff. If someone wants to contribute to SEWP, that is their choice. As far as I know, there are no paid WMF staff toiling on SEWP, so I don’t see an argument for trying to push those volunteers to working on ENWP. I have done a couple of thousand edits on SEWP, and I can see the advantage of simpler articles. The failure was ENWP not adopting the idea of all article ledes being written in Simple English back in 2000-whatever. SEWP is not a perfect wiki but then again neither is any other wiki. There are more pressing Wikimedia-wide problems such as the burgeoning non-free content on dozens of wikis, many without adequate administrative oversight, which could be solved by creating a second image repository to complement Commons. Let’s support smaller wikis rather than reinforcing the ENWP stranglehold on Wikimedia by closing them. I was once a staunch English Wikipedian with a quite centralizing view i.e. pretty much every wiki could be recreated as namespace or a tab in ENWP. However, I have moved towards becoming a Wikimedian, with significant contributions to at least six wikis and I would urge more Wikipedians to do the same. [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] ([[User talk:Green Giant|talk]]) 22:32, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. "Simple.wiki doesn't show up in Google results"? Sometimes, it's ranked higher than the normal English Wikipedia (in most of these cases, both are on page 1 of the results). [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 22:53, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
**{{ping|Lojbanist}} Could you show an example of that? --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 08:33, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I went through clicking "Show any page" and found that about 1/3 to 1/4 of articles show up on the first page of Google, although I could not find any that were above enwiki. I then checked a few simplewiki Very Good Articles, and although they came right next to enwiki, it was always second. I can provide images if needed, and I conducted these tests using a web browser I had never opened before. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 12:16, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Enough people find Simple useful to justify keeping it open. [[User:SilkTork|SilkTork]] ([[User talk:SilkTork|talk]]) 00:13, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::The most viewed article on Simple gets [https://tools.wmflabs.org/topviews/?project=simple.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&date=last-month&excludes= 287,412 monthly views]. There are 5,669,952 articles on Wikipedia. [https://tools.wmflabs.org/topviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&date=last-month&excludes= 5,668,995 of those articles] get less monthly views than the top Simple article. And while we are on stats, there are [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Backlog over 500,000 articles on Wikipedia that need references, including over 45,000 BLPs]. No Wiki project is perfect. [[User:SilkTork|SilkTork]] ([[User talk:SilkTork|talk]]) 00:56, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Slow-moving as a project perhaps, but not useless. [[User:Lusotitan|Lusotitan]] ([[User talk:Lusotitan|talk]]) 23:36, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support closure''' I knew little about Simple English Wikipedia (SEW) until this discussion, so came into this survey with an open mind. I have to say that, on balance, the argument is leaning towards closure of SEW. I had a look at the SEW articles and concluded that it is not fit for purpose. There is no clear definition of what "simple English" is being used, or anything like the same kind of checks and balances on article quality from the few editors who work over there. It seems to be a clear case of a good idea *at the time* turning into something of a relic, more Wikia than Wikipedia. If Wikipedia can allow for Serbian's version to have both Roman and Cyrillic versions on the same article with different tabs, perhaps Simple English could be similarly "merged" into en.wiki? [[User:Doktorbuk|Doktorbuk]] ([[User talk:Doktorbuk|talk]]) 09:43, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{o}} To act in good faith, if we want to integrate the Simple editors we should pursue that before any talk of closing their wiki. As an engineer, I also want to point out that we're already at a point where we could support such an initiative technologically, using Wikidata to link Simple with English content and making it more prominent to readers, and the Simple content could even be presented in a translation-like interface as a model for English editors to follow when simplifying their content. At the social level, I agree with points above that English would benefit from Simple's universality. At any rate, we would be better off reaching out to the editors as allies first, and only then taking drastic steps, that have been planned together. [[User:Adamw|Adamw]] ([[User talk:Adamw|talk]]) 11:24, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - most importantly, I don't believe that SEW is yet failing a net positive test. Secondly, we should be trying additional steps to help it before we consider throwing it out (one suggestion is below). Thirdly, I would want a detailed proposal setting out exactly what was being done with the shutting down (etc) of SEW before I could !vote support. [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) 13:07, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per TonyBallioni. For those who say "if we take down simple.wiki, why wouldn't we take down smaller wikis?", the answer is clear: '''simple English is not a language'''. [[User:L293D|L293D]] ([[User talk:L293D|talk]]) 15:15, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
**{{ping|L293D}}That might be an argument for renaming it to [[w:Basic English|Basic English]], but it isn't an argument for taking it down.[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 16:03, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
***{{ping|LeadSongDog}} basic English is still not a language. [[User:L293D|L293D]] ([[User talk:L293D|talk]]) 16:07, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Basic English is not a language in the sense that it doesn't have an ISO language code, and is based off another language, but it is in the sense that it has it's own set of words (less than English) and some variations in grammar. Either way, SEW isn't strictly Basic English. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 16:08, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::::*{{ping|L293D|LeadSongDog|Vermont}} This is what I've found on Phabricator about renaming regarding this Wikipedia: [[phab:T110190|T110190 Rename "simple" wikis to "en-simple"]]. --[[User:Liuxinyu970226|Liuxinyu970226]] ([[User talk:Liuxinyu970226|talk]]) 22:17, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
**Is being a language that important here? what about those users/readers who are not native english speakers and lack excellent english? I am not native english speaker and if my homewiki lacks any article (though it is a language), then English wiki is not that useful either. Though it has rich and updated content it hard to understand things that are written there. One tab for searching meanings and one for reading article, so instead of going to all that trouble people will start searching elsewhere.(This is based on my observation, since I am from a country where many people understand only basic english) So though it is not an actual language it can be very useful to people. All it needs is more visibility and there are other ways to do that.-[[User:BRPever|BRP]]'''[[User talk:BRPever|'' ever'']]''' 16:11, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*** Yes, the general rule is to have a language or set of languages to have a project. It is very hard to justify Simple English Wikipedia being run from this point, even if it is ‘grandfathered’ as people say, but that is, in my opinion, a bad attitude: it shows, as a Russian phrase goes, that ‘who made it in time, ate it’ and that is not a healthy attitude to have. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 17:01, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong Support'''. Close it, then burn it to ashes, and then burn the ashes. I mostly focus on mathematics articles on the main English Wikipedia, so I took a quick look at a few high-profile articles here, and the overall state was utterly pitiful. Forget any problems with vandals or LTAs; this is just a low-quality project (and not just in math). I'm sorry for those who've spent time volunteering here, but this place shouldn't exist. I think the overall concept is fundamentally flawed. Who decides what's too linguistically complex? And frankly, I'd rather see people that struggle a bit with English led to a better article that they have a bit harder time understanding than to a low-quality one that they handle more easily. [[User:Deacon Vorbis|Deacon Vorbis]] ([[User talk:Deacon Vorbis|talk]]) 16:19, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*:So you are saying that so many years of work by volunteers should just be "burned to ashes"? I think it should be extremely unfair to the volunteers and people who have worked on Simple Wiki for many years for their work to be deleted, archived or forgotten. There are many articles on Simple Wiki, and people have put in time for them. As to your argument that you'd like people that struggle to go to English Wiki, that should be their choice to make, if they prefer Simple Wiki over English, why should they not use it? [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 16:45, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*::I was being a bit hyperbolic, quoting [[en:Fahrenheit 451|Fahrenheit 451]], but essentially yes. Leaving it frozen as an archive might be okay in case there's any information that anyone specifically wants to salvage. As for the time that people have put into the project, I certainly feel for them, but I think you're committing a version of the [[en:sunk cost fallacy|sunk cost fallacy]]. Why should more resources be wasted on something that's ultimately not worth it? [[User:Deacon Vorbis|Deacon Vorbis]] ([[User talk:Deacon Vorbis|talk]]) 17:27, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*:It’s a lot more than “struggle a bit” with a complex English article. See BRPever’s comment immediately above yours. As you are a native speaker of English, you (and I, for that matter) are unable to recognize the helpfulness of a Simple English Wikipedia for those who only know basic English. Also, could I ask what you mean by “low-quality project”? I think this misconception of yours may stem from the odd phrasing and use of words, as you are an editor in perhaps one of the most complex areas of the English Wikipedia. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 16:50, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - I rarely visit it but I actually just checked it for something the other day; It is not a resource I would like to see brought to an end. — [[User:Godsy|Godsy]] ([[User talk:Godsy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Godsy|contribs]]) 20:56, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' no, it doesn't have anything like the number of viewers of the English Wikipedia, but that means absolutely nothing - few projects do. It has an active community and plenty of useful content. I wouldn't be opposed to integrating it into the English Wikipedia somehow but that shouldn't be done by closing it. '''''[[User:Hut 8.5|Hut 8.5]]''''' 21:34, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' "If the project was used by ESLs, who outnumber native speakers by ~10x or so, those numbers would be widely different. But they are not." I am not a native English speaker either, but I have been using English as a secondary language since I was in elementary school, and have earned a couple of certificates on fluency. I never found the Simple English project either useful to read, or particularly interesting to edit. Both of my adult nieces visit English Wikipedia for information, though neither was ever an editor. My 8 or 9-year old grand-niece (I forgot her date of birth) is currently starting with her English education and with gaining computer skills, and has been advised to visit English Wikipedia. In part to start reading texts in English, and in part because it has comprehensive articles on subjects which she enjoys (such as dogs and dog breeds). I really don't get why non-native speakers should be spoken down to. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 01:00, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}} closure and merge existing content to English Wikipedia.
*: Reasons:
*:#There is already a wiki for English: English Wikipedia. "Simple English" is not a language. This does not meet the requirements §2 and §3 of the [[Language proposal policy|policy]] (wiki was created way before the current policy): ''The language must have a valid ISO 639 1–3 code'', but this uses English code because it's English and does not have an own code, and ''The language must be sufficiently unique that it could not coexist on a more general wiki. In most cases, this excludes regional dialects and different written forms of the same language'', but "Simple English" is no more than a different written form of the same language called English
*:#It has created duplication of content and splits community resources into two Wikipedias instead of collaborating in one more efficiently. This content duplication and efforts being splitted could create inconsistencies between enwp and simplewp versions of articles.
*:#Limitation in vocabulary could affect articles' accuracy in complex topics.
*:#Even if it **can** be useful to "English starters" as someone said above and a lot of native English speakers say, this has not been demonstrated. Just read proponent rationale. As an example, I am not a native English speaker and I never read simplewp, I go directly to enwp. As someone said: "there is not evidence how SEW helps starters or that it has a separate audience or that new English speakers benefit from it...".
*:#Could be developed better technical solutions to address alleged English-as-a-second-language learners' benefits such as proposed, add a tab "Simple" in English Wikipedia to offer a simplified version of the article being viewed.
*:#Keeping this "simple" thing is a violation of neutrality and could be considered a [[:w:linguistic imperialism|linguistic imperialism]]. Given that this wiki was aproved before current policy, it has gone live, but next "simple <language>" proposals were rejected because those were not real languages, just a "subset" of the referenced language. Why this project can still exists and other languages are not being allowed to have their "simple" versions? Should not have wikis for "Simple Portuguese Wikipedia" to help Portuguese as second language learners to understand more Portuguese?
*:#Could be better to offer English language learning contents to non-English Wikimedia wikis, so their readers can learn English first and then involve more with English projects? But even if that is the case, Why should I bother with learning English to access the knowledge if I can do that in my own language? Doesn't this resembles to something? Do you remember regions in where knowledge was denied to minority language speakers and because that they had to learn the dominant language if they wanted to access knoledge, losing little by little their cultural heritage? But the other side of this point is that learning new languages open new "worlds" and ways of seeing the world.
*:#As suggested above: with Wikidata structured data and [[:mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder|ArticlePlaceholder extension]] will be easier to automatically translate data into smaller Wikipedias or smaller language Wikipedias, so the argument "It is better to use Simple English Wikipedia as a source for translations to other language because standard English Wikipedia's English form of writing is too complex" will become weaker, keeping some validity in the case topic complexity "force" to use simplewp, though.
*:#Merge to enwp could help to redefine enwp MoS to promote more clarity and better written English in pages among writers, what would benefit native or non-native readers with more understandable pages, no matter if they have or have not an universitary degree.
*:Not a reason, and hence should not be taken in account as arguments:
*:#"This wiki is less active than X". Activity per se is not a valid reason to close a wiki.
*:#"Simple is useful to new english speakers, such as people who have never spoken english before". If they never spoken English before, then they could not even understand "simple English" wiki.
*:#"It is a playground for vandals, spambots, LTAs". These can be controlled by several tools, like patrol bots, blocks, FlaggedRevs, etc.
*:#"Closing it will send ESL speaker people a hostile or negative message". What message? All the world uses English Wikipedia, native and non-native English speakers. Please clarify.
*:#Said above: "The key quality of Simple English wp is to offer an easily-accessible summary of each topic, rather than the comprehensive, and sometimes dense, en-wiki articles". You should not have a Wikipedia to make abstract/stub versions of the main one.
*:#"This wiki is a waste of WMF resources". Hosting this wiki does not harm. Storage space is not a problem, and financial situation is very good.
*:#"<smaller language Wikipedia> and <even smaller language Wikipedia> has less activity/content/contributors so we should shut down the smaller ones". This is a RfC for Simple English Wikipedia, not for ''smaller languages'' Wikipedias.
*:Concerns:
*:#simplewp has a community.
*:#It has some activity, in other words, it is not inactive.
*:#Even with not many pageviews as expected, it seems to be read by some readers, and receives traffic, as some users here report.
*:--[[User:Zerabat|Zerabat]] ([[User talk:Zerabat|discusión]]) 01:53, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
*::Perhaps a few clarifications:
*::* SEWP was created before the policy you cite; therefore, you cannot reasonably apply ths policy.
*::* There are 6-7 non-extinct Sami languages, but we have ISO language codes for 11-13 of them. In total, we talk about 25k speakers, most of them old. Yet we do have a Wikipedia for the most common Sami language (covering about 17k of the 25k speakers). Given the structure of the language, it is likely, that the remaining 8k speakers will not understand the language we have the wiki for. Would I be able to start a Wiki for SJU, SJT or SJK langages?
*::*We have a wiki for Alemannic Wikipedia (ISO: GSW). There s however quite a bit of regional difference between the dialects; to the extent, that mutual understanding may suffer. There is also no agreement on orthography.There is an ISO code for Baiuvarian / Bairisch (BAR) with a Wikipedia. The difference in language to the GSW Wikpedia is marginal at best, the ortohgraphy problem, and the problem with variations will apply to a similar extent. There s one ISO Code for Gaelic (GD), how many gaelic-language Wikis do we have?
*::* There are many Creole languages, developed from Pidgins. For how many of them do we have Wikis?
*::* Problem of demostratng usefulness: Simple English is probably not very inreresting to linguists; I expect there are few scientific papers on it. As usual, the ones there are are probably not comparable. Also, given that there are probably more people who understand Simple English, should we not merge EnWP into SEWP, if a merge is to be done?
*::*You try to close SEWP because the policies/incentives to write in understandable language failed at ENWP?
*::*Implementing a technical solution to show simplified articles at EnWP on request needs work, and will cost money. This proposal was also raised because of alleged monetary concerns.
*::These are of course just observations.--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 09:36, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
*:::Let me address some of your observations: (1) If you would read more carefully my comment, you would see I already said that above. If I wasn't clear about my point, then I'll say it more clearly: if this Wikipedia would be proposed to be created today, it would not accomplish policy requirements. (2) I don't know the cases of Sami languages and then I'm not going to comment about then, otherwise I'd say something wrong. But take in account this RfC is about SEWP, not about Sami languages Wikipedias, and it's a special case because "Simple English" is not a language in is own right, it's English with a limited vocabulary. If this RfC would be about an existing language (English is a language, "SE" not), then Sami languages example could be appropriate to take in account. (3) The case of alemmanic is interesting. It's a relevant case because it may differ between regional variants/dialects as you say, making those hardly intelligible. I think it's not the same issue because SE uses mostly the same rules as English language grammar, but the only difference would be the limited vocabulary. Please tell me if I said something wrong. (4) Not the case of SE, and this is a RfC for SEWP.(5) No comments on the linguist and scientific papers. About merging into ENWP, I think it will benefit more readers, because ENWP is by far the most visited Wikipedia, and non-native speakers of English will likely go to ENWP if they want to read about their topic in English. And in the case they don't understand very well, they could go to "Simplify" tab or whatever it could be called and will get an easier version. What is this "Simple tab" different from making click in "Simple English" interwiki? It's different because a tab is more visible than an interwiki, and will be easier to maintain and keep up to date by the community. (6) I didn't say that. (7) Currently SEWP doesn't seem to cost money. Technical solutions could require money, of course, but if the operation of merging is done gradually and with help of the English language community, the cost could be mitigated. --[[User:Zerabat|Zerabat]] ([[User talk:Zerabat|discusión]]) 14:12, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*:{{od}} Ok, I'll perhaps rephprase, even though it may become technical:
*:*ISO 639 provides a set of codes, of 2-4 letters, which can identify a language.It also has rules to specify a language-variant. These are however technical codes, and they do not say anything wether two languages are related, or if speakers of one can understand the other. ISO 639 a priori also does not tell you whether the language you are talking about is a spoken language, and if there is a written form. The more common languages have shorter codes, if I remember correctly, but that is irrelevant for our purpose. The problem we now have with the languages I cited is that most of them have an oral tradition, there may be agreement on how to write something down, but not all people agree, and I would guess that you have a few competing forms. In that context, requiring an ISO code is useless, because other than telling you that the language exists, it doesn't do anything. And even so: I was able to show that there are language codes (GSW, bayuvarian, perhaps Letzeburgisch, Kölsch...) which can all be seen as regional dialects of German, or Dutch (in the case of Plattdeutsch/Niederdeutsch/NDS). This is the same for the [[:en:Sami languages]]. In addition, the parts of Europe where they are spoken are very sparsely populated, which will probably lead to more regional variation. Note that ISO decided they should be languages, and not variants of the same language. I would also guess there is little written tradition of these languages, they are mostly spoken ("use everyday") languages. So: Requiring an ISO 639 code is probably wrong here; and it also will not tell us how closely related these languages are. In the case of the Sami language, I am pretty convinced that the 7k people who don't speak Northern Sami will have a hard time understanding; but that's not the issue here.
*:*As for Alemannic, mutual inintelligibility of some dialects is mostly due to different vocabulary, and not so much different grammar.And pronounciation can of course also vary a great deal; area:I'd say about 300 by 200 km; German speaking Switzerland, southern parts of Germany, Western parts of Austria, norther parts of Italy. Bayuvarian: rest of Southern German, and Austria.
*:*Closing a Wiki that is almost in the top 50 clearly sends the wrong signal, especially since this wiki has a community, and generates half a million page views a day. Wikipedia is there for threatened/marginalized languages, such as Plattdeutsch, or Northern Sami, but SEWP is "assimilated" by EnWP, despit its having a community. As a comparison: Latin, or Alemannic have 10-20k page views/day. Another example: Kölsch (ksh), which is also a dialect of German. Still another case: Afrikans (af)/dutch(nl/dut): Practically the same language, mutually understandable, two wikis.
*:*If Wikipedia wants to be about cultural diversity, about being abole to accept smaller groups, then closing down simple will make it lose much of this image.
*:*SEWP may have problems, but these cannot be solved by absorbing it into ENWP. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 15:20, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*:* I’m sorry, but this is bogus. ISO 639 provides a useful baseline for whether the language exists and is normal to create a project about. The fact that Basic/Simple English doesn’t have an ISO 639 code does not show that ISO 639 codes are useless, it shows that Simple English Wikipedia currently exists in a limbo. The fact that smaller languages or dialects have their codes also doesn’t show anything, because they have been considered separate languages/dialects by standards and it is fine, whether or not mutual intelligibility exists or not. Closing a wiki that was created not according to the common sense, that exists simply because English community is too big to others, is more than warranted. Threatened/marginalised languages also have to have community on opening, so your point is moot. You have to reform Simple English Wikipedia or it has to stop existing, it’s that simple. Right now it is an another remnant of Anglo-centric nature of our movement. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 14:39, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
*:*:I invite you to look up the code "VIC" (ISO 639-3), which stands for "Virgin Islands Creole English". Officially it does not have the status of a language, the official langage of the territory is "English" (Sorry to be pedantic here: "American English" is not a language, but a language variant). Now ask yourself in what way this Virgin Islands Creole can be different from standard English? - The only two points I see are vocabulary, and spelling. Another example: BZJ - Kriol English, Belize. Same issues apply. Or another Example: Romania has a sizeable population of German speakers (about 30k native, about 500k as second language, of the 20m). At the moment, their dialect ("transsylvanian") is not mapped. I think if I dug a little, I would find more English or German variants in Sub-Saharian Africa, eg. in Namibia.. - in short: ISO 639 is a laudable effort, but probably unsuitable to our needs. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 16:00, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per proposers reasoning. The amount of time spent making it is not a rationale to keep. Lots of people spend lots of time doing lots of edits on this Wikipedia (the standard English one) that are routinely removed. ---[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 13:38, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strongest possible oppose''' - The Simple English Wikipedia provides an outlet for people to read articles which would otherwise be completely indecipherable to speakers of English as a foreign language. Coming from a background as a native Danish speaker (with English as a second language), I found that I was better suited to writing on the Simple English Wikipedia than on the main English one. There are articles on there which I can only imagine would bamboozle the hell out of a non-native English speaker. Closing this project would be detrimental to accessibility, unless the Main English Wikipedia were written in such a way as to make it considerably easier to understand. You shall not pass! [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 18:43, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per above. Simple English isn't a real language, the quality isn't great, and it seems to be attracting vandals. Volunteer effort is better spent elsewhere. -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 01:54, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support.''' The project's goals have failed and are unlikely to be reached. We serve readers better by focusing on one instance of the encyclopedia. [[User:Sandstein|Sandstein]] ([[User talk:Sandstein|talk]]) 07:24, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' While I think this is interesting, I think the problem is that this presumes a usage to Simple and then argues a failure based on that. We have, for example, an [[:ang.wikipedia.org|Old English wikipedia]] which has less usage (since nobody has spoken it in close to ten centuries) and while one could argue for it to be somehow interested in English (I can imagine some fun on historical pages), it seems quite silly. I think the problem is assuming that SEW exists only for EN because it also exists to allow people in smaller languages an easier description page to base their articles off. I think the goal should be how to encourage more smaller languages to use SEW rather than trying to close this project down or integrate it into the larger English one. -- [[User:Ricky81682|Ricky81682]] ([[User talk:Ricky81682|talk]]) 10:33, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong oppose'''. People are reading it and I don't think anyone can say volunteers can use their effort elsewhere because it's upto that volunteer to decide where or how they want to work. If project or it's article needs improvement, then it should be discussed in more appropriate place and better policies can be implemented. There are other ways to make simple visible but merge is not a good option.-[[User:BRPever|BRP]]'''[[User talk:BRPever|'' ever'']]''' 14:59, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - As a competent native English speaker with an advanced level of English skills, even I find Simple to be useful at times, usually when STEM-related articles are too technical or complex for a casual reader to understand. English has ''significantly'' more non-native speakers than it has native speakers, and is in fact the most commonly-spoken second language in the world. If Simple is that useful to ''me'', a fully-fluent native speaker, it sure as hell is a lot more useful to the many non-native speakers who only have a basic or moderate understanding of English or those who are still learning. I would wholly support Simple being ''integrated'' in en.wiki, but closing it outright would be more negative than leaving it open, and there doesn't seem to be any realistic path forward for integrating the content. The actual aim of this proposal is on shutting down Simple because it's "bad". On the contrary, I reject the notion that it's harmful or negative in any regard. [[User:Swarm|Swarm]] ([[User talk:Swarm|talk]]) 18:38, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{Strong support}} '''deletion''', but {{Weak oppose}} '''merge'''. Simple Wikipedia is effectively a laughingstock. It's pitifully uncomprehensive and should never have been created. But I don't want Simple Wikipedia to defile Wikipedia. The language on Simple is frankly ''too'' simple, making it a joke. Merging it to English Wikipedia won't make Simple English Wikipedia better, but instead make English Wikipedia worse.''' —''' [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] ([[User talk:Mr. Guye|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Mr. Guye|contribs]])  19:57, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
:'''Reply''' - Respectfully, Mr. Guye, I would say this to you. The whole point of the Simple English Wikipedia is that it's meant to be simple enough for people to understand without difficulty or needing minimal help from a dictionary if necessary. I'll be honest with you, I don't want the English Wikipedia to "defile" the Simple English Wikipedia. <s>Some</s> Most of their editors wouldn't know simplicity if it came up and bit them on the behind. I've seen plays by Shakespeare which are more easily understood than some of the confusing mess on there. [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 20:17, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
:{{support}} per above. --[[Special:Contributions/219.147.95.209|219.147.95.209]] 07:54, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Strongly oppose closure''' Let's improve it, not give up on it. [[User:Mock wurzel soup|Mock wurzel soup]] ([[User talk:Mock wurzel soup|talk]]) 08:47, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose closure''' tl;dr but cannot imagine an argument for closing an apparently useful project. --[[User:Itu|Itu]] ([[User talk:Itu|talk]]) 10:37, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong oppose''' improve it, not closing it. Will other smaller ones closed too? --[[User:Joergens.mi|Joergens.mi]] ([[User talk:Joergens.mi|talk]]) 10:55, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
{{Support}} I guess we don't need to English Wikipedias. {{unsigned|45.33.143.183}}

*'''Oppose closure''' I am an active editor on both English and Simple English Wikipedias. i am also a teacher of English as a second language. Many of my students report having found Simple English Wik(or, by the way, Britannica) much easier to read than English Wik. Also, some of them read SE first to get a feel for material and then go to related articles in E. Without the first, the second would have been too difficult for them. The proposal is written in an inaccurate and snarky way. Thousands of visits (e.g., Germany · 6/3/2018 - 6/23/2018 · 19,606 pageviews; Ranked 37 of the most viewed SE pages for May 2018; 15th among Wiks about Germany) is hardly at the tiny level claimed in the proposal.

What is LTA?[[User:Kdammers|Kdammers]] ([[User talk:Kdammers|talk]]) 11:28, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
:{{yo|Kdammers}} - LTA is an acronym for "Long Term Abuse" or "Long Term Abuser". It's given to accounts which have a long history of abusing Wikipedia across one or more projects. Saying that someone is an LTA usually means that they've been up to no good for quite some time. [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 16:21, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

:{{oppose}} per Ajraddatz: not a zero-sum game, and the SEW would be seen as a moderately successful project if enwiki didn't exist. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:27, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Strong oppose''' I am a (semi) active editor, but I also use simple wiki all the time when I am trying to understand more complex topics. It explains complex information easily, unlike en.wikipedia, which I find at times can be highly inaccesible (and this is coming from a native english speaker). There are much better changes you could make if you feel like simple.wikipedia isn't doing its job right now. For one thing, if you are so concerned about people who should be using it just using en.wikipedia, then wouldn't it be better for everyone if there was just a more prominent link, rather than shutting down a Wikipedia with over 130,000 articles. And in regards to the claims about LTA: yes vandalism happens, but it is almost always quickly reverted, and this is the same on all wikipedia projects. That's just my two cents on the matter, [[User:MiloDenn|MiloDenn]] ([[User talk:MiloDenn|talk]]) 16:31, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' is well used and closing a wiki due to vandalism is a terrible option as it would give victory to the vandals who would be bolstered and move to other targets. Instead, start a major crackdown on vandalism using the help of anti-vandal experts and bot-operators from the English wiki, thanks [[User:Atlantic306|Atlantic306]] ([[User talk:Atlantic306|talk]]) 19:25, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Support changing''' / '''Oppose closing''' - I'm fairly active on it and have been for the past year or 2 so I'll make my observations on it -
::My main issues I have with the site is that it's backwards compared to EN or any other project for that matter:
::*Protection is non-existent - It's used sparsely,
::*The project can occasionally be left without any active admin for a good 2-3-4 hours (how do I know ? ... Because I wanted a vandal blocked and no one was on for a good 2-3-4 hours! meaning myself and the vandal were the only person on the website)
::*Vandalism stays unless you're watching that page .... (I've removed a 2-3-4 good years worth of vandalism from a good few articles)
::*The QD (CSD) criteria over there is piss poor to say the least ("created by a sock" is apparently not a valid reason for deletion)

::In short the project is backwards in the way it's run and the way things are dealt with, Not only that but like others say no one is picking up the site and even when they do it's a vandalism cess-pit ..... Don't get me wrong I enjoy editing the site but in my eyes the cons outweigh the pros,

::At present in my eyes the project has been failing for a few years and it's only getting worse - There would need to be a lot of work done on it in terms of 'protection, blocking, csding and the way it's run' to make it a viable project - If none of those changes are made then this project doesn't have a great future, The Google Search is also another issue that would need to be addressed,

::I'm sure there are ways you could point new editors to Simple but simply put you'd need to change the project before implemeting that,

::Anyway sorry for waffling on - '''TLDR - Change it <s>or failing that close it down</s>'''. –[[User:Davey2010|'''Davey''''''2010''']][[User talk:Davey2010|'''Talk''']] 22:10, 24 June 2018 (UTC) (Updated - Support changing not closing. –[[User:Davey2010|'''Davey''''''2010''']][[User talk:Davey2010|'''Talk''']] 16:21, 25 June 2018 (UTC))
*::Vandalism is an issue on any wiki-project. If there aren't enough admins around, simple can always be added to the [[SWMT]] watchlists. In emergencies, you can always request steward help over IRC, and we can block when no local admins are around. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 00:07, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I absolutely agree it is an issue but atleast with EN and Commons there's someone there to help .... with Simple it was just me and the vandal ..... Ofcourse I don't ever expect anyone to be on 24/7 365 but one would assume there would be atleast ''one'' admin on, If memory serves me right I think I was off to bed so I believe the vandal had the website to themselves ? ... Anyway yeah I'd certainly support it being added to SWMT. –[[User:Davey2010|'''Davey''''''2010''']][[User talk:Davey2010|'''Talk''']] 01:05, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Yes, this is a problem we all might have faced, though this might not be the right place to discuss solution but we can solve this problem by increasing the participation of admins in #cvn-simplewikis. Whenever admins are around they can be alerted. After Vermont became admin I have observed that with right coordination from the users and proper use of channel the problem can be minimized. More admin participation in the channel can help to prevent this problem.-[[User:BRPever|BRP]]'''[[User talk:BRPever|'' ever'']]''' 05:15, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' I agree with [[User:Vermont]]'s point that deleting the Simple English Wikipedia would give LTA's a sense of victory due to that wiki being deleted due to being used for vandalism, so I don't think it should be deleted, or at least not just due to being used for vandalism. [[User:SemiHypercube|SemiHypercube]] ([[User talk:SemiHypercube|talk]]) 00:54, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong oppose''' to closing or diverting Simple Wikipedia. I probably still test in the 99th percentile for reading and writing comprehension and skill. I edit both on English Wikipedia and Simple. I can still write for Simple Wikipedia like a star and factually and creatively. I am still not usually reverted or have scolding messages end up on my talk page or that of the article. In fact, on English Wikipedia I am working now on an edit request for someone who is hired by a firm to improve their clients articles and therefore is hindered by a conflict of interest from making the change themselves. It is going very well. I explained coherently the plot for [[:simple:Primer (movie)]] time travel) for the Simple English version and got some kind kudos on a scientic forum because they finally understood. I write and read Simple for perhaps a different reason. I have a neurological genetic illness; one that I feared would cause me to lose my IQ. I was advised professionally to find a hobby that would use my knowledge and cognitive ability. They bet I could keep up. I registered in December 2010 as a user and then signed on to Simple in December 2011. I have created good 55 articles that I still watch and update and maintain. None were stubs but complete in sense of what was needed. Somme I consider clever: [[:simple:Cat righting reflex]], [[:simple:Buttered cat paradox]]. It earned me the patroller right, with which I also judge other articles. Except for typos, no one would ever discern my difference. Surely there are other editors on Simple with limitations and if not, then I a gatekeeper for those who cannot comprehend level 13 grade English but love to read and learn. I beleive my level of writing for Simple is about grade 8, which I prefer. Thank you. [[User:Fylbecatulous|Fylbecatulous]] [[User talk:Fylbecatulous|talk]] 12:49, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
*:Please note that SE links to northern Sami; you probably meant [[:simple:Cat righting reflex]] and [[simple:Buttered cat paradox]...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 09:33, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
*::of course; thank you [[User:Eptalon]]; not one of my better days to write an essay :)) thank you..and then not check my work..but I just had to comment and now I have dutifully correctly three bad links. ''sigh...'' all the best, [[User:Fylbecatulous|Fylbecatulous]] [[User talk:Fylbecatulous|talk]] 15:54, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
* {{Support}} It should be closed because a lot of people know basic English. Let's say: 99%. --70 ([[Special:Contributions/70.21.198.85|70.21.198.85]])
::'''Response''' - Let's not make up statistics to support something. If you don't know a number, research it :) [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 08:26, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support''' closure, in favour of improving English Wikipedia. I don't think a straight import would work well, but rather English Wikipedia could address the needs from ESL reader with multiple closely integrated solutions. For example, the availability of lead sections via Page Previews has no doubt improved the experience for ESL readers, as well as the introduction of "short description" fields (as inspired by Wikidata). I hope we can continue this trend and establish stricter conventions for the lead section. For information beyond the lead section, we'll need to come up with a new strategy. My own idea in that area would be integrated "simple summaries" for individual sections of an article. --[[User:Krinkle|Krinkle]] ([[User talk:Krinkle|talk]]) 00:08, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
::'''Response''' This might be something you can talk to Doc James at EN about, Krinkle. As he says below in the response to my LANGCOM request, "''Simplification is, however, super difficult as it is very easy to change the meaning if one is not careful.''" If editors on the English Wikipedia would be receptive, I'd like to try simplifying some of their articles to get a feel for how it'd be received. One thing's for sure though, I won't see SEWP go down without a fight. Something '''MUST''' already be in place before that is even considered. [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 08:26, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Well, in case it wasn't clear, I (the proposer) totally agree that SEW should not be closed BEFORE we have a working tool/solution that would integrate SEW into En Wiki. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 10:33, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support''' closure, since it seems very likely to me that the downsides of the continued existence of Simple (mainly providing free rein for vandals, trolls, and well-intentioned new users who don't really know how to edit the right way; I've already noticed a couple articles being created by new users on Simple that just sit around unnoticed for much longer than on enwiki) far outweigh any benefits. I'm sure it will be inconvenient to many people who use it to read the articles for their greater readability, but I do not think that Wikipedia and the concept of helping people learn to speak a language are inherently compatible. I would also recommend, nay, urge my fellow en.wiki editors and I to greatly increase the currently way-too-low readability of en.wiki articles, so that more people who are less fluent in English than most native speakers can understand the subject by reading those articles. [[User:Everymorning|Everymorning]] ([[User talk:Everymorning|talk]]) 19:51, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong Oppose''': if some are concerned that the wiki is not reaching its target audience, then closing it will only ensure that. I've been editing on Simple since 2011 with breaks here and there. I link to SEWP as appropriate from my learning management system as an English language educator in universities in Japan. Students can read these articles when they cannot read EnWP. I've presented on SEWP at academic conferences, and it always gets an interested response from teachers; some start using it. I was once even quoted in the New York Times on using Wiki writing with language students (WikiTravel before it went bad, and before I knew about Simple.) I've assigned writing tasks in SEWP to students with good results and plan to do so again next year with a new course. The site is very useful for some but not all people. Being useful to all or even a large majority of Internet users is not a requirement. A little cooperation from EnWP on making links to SEWP a little more prominent would be very helpful, I think. How would English Wikipedia function differently if Simple didn't exist? I doubt it would change at all. Closing SEWP is certainly not the way to get editors there to contribute to EnWP. Simple isn't hurting anything and it helps some. I think that is good enough. --[[User:Gotanda|Gotanda]] ([[User talk:Gotanda|talk]]) 06:06, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{neutral}} I would investigate if [[phab:T110190]] is good as alternate way or not. --[[User:Liuxinyu970226|Liuxinyu970226]] ([[User talk:Liuxinyu970226|talk]]) 11:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{support}} to closing it and integrating it into en-wiki. Yes, there is a need for articles written for people with less English-skill but Simple is too obscure to satisfy it. Instead, those speakers come to en-wiki. So what makes more sense than providing the experience they need where they come to? [[:wikia:starwars|Wookieepedia]] demonstrated that a whole wiki can run two different versions of the same page. Regards '''[[w:User:SoWhy|So]][[w:User talk:SoWhy|Why]]''' 12:09, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

*{{Weak oppose}} '''deletion''', and {{Strong support}} '''merge'''. Until concrete measures are taken to incorporate accessibility, SEW serves an unmet purpose. There are two separate set of problems SEW tries to solve. One is making editing process friendlier, and the other is accessible content. For all of the wikipedias, content is arguably the bigger goal here. In order to achieve that, editing needs to be a '''positive experience'''. Since the number of articles on SEW is quite sparse relative to WP EN, why not harness the strength and benefits of WP EN, with bonus of not dealing with banned LTA's? Perhaps a template on certain EN WP articles (starting with the existing 140,000 corresponding articles on SEW) can state that an accessible SEW lede should be included in the top. [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 16:40, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Oppose''' This is a fairly active project. [https://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportPageViewsPerCountryBreakdownHuge.htm Traffic analysis] shows it is relatively popular in India, or anyway twice as popular there as in the US or UK. I would not at all be opposed to greater integration with English Wikipedia, or proposals to pare down or further specialize the content.--[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] ([[User talk:Pharos|talk]]) 00:33, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{support}} it’s lame. {{unsigned|2600:1001:B01E:E429:312D:8690:3159:D15F}}
*{{o}} - Simply revive the project. Closing is an ide solution. [[User:De Wikischim|De Wikischim]] ([[User talk:De Wikischim|talk]]) 09:32, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{oppose}}: per Pharos. Fairly active and useful project. [[User:Septrillion|Septrillion]] ([[User talk:Septrillion|talk]]) 16:54, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Oppose'''. I admit, I neither read nor edit SEP and know nothing of its quality, and from occasional peeks, I don't get the point of its existence. ''Nonetheless'', Wikimedia has allowed this thing to simmer on for a decade now. I think it sets a disturbing precedent and damages the Wikimedia "brand" if you just shut down something that has attracted that much work, for whatever reason. If there is a social contract among Wikimedia editors, part of it is the sense that their editing isn't all in vain. Surely less restrictive measures exist: in order, (a) you could make the project read-only historical, (b) limit it to only admins, (c) limit it to users who go through an approval process ... somewhere way out in (f) or (g) you should find some option that takes care of the spam, if that's a problem. In any case -- you wrote this thing, took years to write it, now don't just toss it away. Whatever it is, good or bad, it belongs to the world now -- respect that. [[User:Wnt|Wnt]] ([[User talk:Wnt|talk]]) 22:45, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Actively maintained and used by many readers who manage to find it somehow. If it's not visible enough, there are other solutions than closure. [[User:Jonathunder|Jonathunder]] ([[User talk:Jonathunder|talk]]) 01:45, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Every argument for "closure" pretty much would apply to a ''majority'' of all Wikipedias. The problem, in fact, is that it is "invisible" to most folks. A proposal to make it ''Concise Wikipedia'' would make far more sense, and it should be promoted as not being "simple" which sounds a bit "down-selling" as the fact that one need not read thirty thousand words on a topic to get an easy-to-understand overview. Most Wikipedia users do not read entire articles, as Google shows by its use of a precis in searches. I would further suggest that where articles do not currently exist in SEW, that leads from many Wikipedia "main articles" which do not yet have SEW counterparts ''should be linked by software'' to searches within "SEW" (or "CW" as I suggest). [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 12:30, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

==Discussion==
===Early discussion that started on simple===

:Hello there. I am probably one of the oldest contributors (who still edits) Simple Wikipedia, and I have been with the project since the end of 2006. Over the least years I have seen that there is a growing knowledge that SEWP exists within the community; I think there have been (failed) proposals to start with similar ideas for French and German language Wikipedias. Many editors I have known from EnWP have an ambivalent, to hostile attitude towards SEWP, its editors, and its users. In that context, I cannot see how the project could be "absorbed" into EnWP. Yes, SEWP faces the problem of visibility, but I guess thats common to most smaller Wikis. How many editors are there for the Latin language, Scots, Gaelic, or Alemannic Wikipedias? - How many times have the closure of the respective projects been discussed? Another problem I see: How many editors care about readablity? - If the article is about mathematics, put the formulas, they stand for themselves? Compare [[:simple:Navier–Stokes equations]] to [[:en:Navier–Stokes equations]], and tell me how much a person that is not in natural sciences will understand from each version? - In my opinion, many editors of ENWP have lost the interest in explaining concepts, so that a common audience can understand them. The result is, that ENWP has many poor quality articles, which are not improved, because quality is not enforced. SEWP has a small base of quality aware editors, so that the rate of poor quality article is probably lower. Simple English Wikipedia is about explaining concepts well, it is not so much about using word-lists. A word list won't help when it comes to scientifically accurate articles. SEWP has an issue with visibility; it does not have one with content. "Merging" SEWP into ENWP will not solve the problem. It will increase the problem, because as I pointed out, many editors of ENWP lack the interest and incentives to write scientifically accurate articles that a common person with no specialized domain knowledge can understand. In short: Merging won't work. Even if the userbase is small,the project has found its niche, and I don't think it should be deleted, for the reasons given. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 10:29, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Before I forget: Being featured in pages like [https://xkcd.com/547/ XKCD] shows that the project has a certain visibility outside the community. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 11:10, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::EnWiki is big and some people are hostile to anything new. But that doesn't change the fact that SEW niche is too niche to be useful to pretty much anyone. Other languages are not a valid comparison, as they are, well, other languages. Simple English is a variant that can be, with some support from MediaWiki coders, incorporated into English Wikipedia. If you care about SEW content, you should care to make it as visible as possible. And the only way to make it visible (and hence, useful) is to make it a feature of En Wiki. Please don't think about losing identify, or project history, or such. This shouldn't matter, our main concern should be the benefits for the reader. My Korean students would certainly enjoy reading SEW articles which are more suited to their language level than general En Wiki articles, but there is no way they'll start using SEW because it has so little visibility it doesn't come in search engines. It's time to fix this. Let's not assume En Wiki will be by default hostile to absorbing SEW content. If this is done as a cool new feature (a new tab, perhaps), or such, majority should be ok. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 11:10, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::The idea that it doesn't come up in search engines is just plain false, it is often the first hit for a number of subjects. Or at the very least the link right below the English one. So that is an idea that needs to be nipped in the bud right away. And yes other languages are a valid comparison as Simple English has recently been recognized as a distinct language with its own ISO code. So it is no different than the variants of other languages that Eptalon mentions below that have even less of an audience than we do. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 14:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::''What is the ISO code? I couldn't find one. Note: ISO 639–6 has been withdrawn, and LangCom doesn't use it. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 16:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)''
:::::I can't remember off the top of my head. It was actually from LangCom that I was told of it, there is a ticket in to switch simple to it eventually. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 16:57, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Your claim that no one uses it is also false. You used the example of [[:simple:Donald Trump]], which is quite misleading. I was actually surprised at how little [[:simple:Donald Trump|Donald Trump]] was viewed, but it is not like that on other pages in the SEW. The article [[:simple:Names of God in Islam|Names of God in Islam]] receives a daily average of 1791 daily views. The English Wikipedia article [[:en:Names of God in Islam|Names of God in Islam]] receives an average of 526 daily pageviews. Recently when Donald Trump announced the proposal of the U.S. Space Force, [[:simple:Military of the United States|Military of the United States]] was viewed 6,530 times. This is not as insignificant as you make it out to be in your examples. Furthermore, this year the Simple English Wikipedia has received an average of [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&range=this-year&sites=simple.wikipedia.org 614,344 daily page views]. If you look at the [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&range=all-time&sites=simple.wikipedia.org all-time graph], you'd see a steady increase in average daily page views. See [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&range=this-year&sites=simple.wikipedia.org|az.wikipedia.org|nn.wikipedia.org|ur.wikipedia.org this graph] comparing the SEW (52nd largest wiki) to the 51st, 50th, and 49th largest Wikipedias. Regarding you saying "there is no way they'll start using SEW because it has so little visibility it doesn't come in search engines", could I ask what search engine they're using? I just tested it on computers/browsers that I've never used to edit, and in many cases it shows up on the first or second page of results. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 16:44, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::You do realize that XKCD is making fun of the Simple English Wikipedia, right? Seems to me that that cartoon argues in favor of getting rid of SEW. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 16:36, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Your point? There are cartoons all over the internet which make fun of lots of different things. Should we listen to them all? [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 16:53, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::The mention in XKCD was given as a reason to keep. My point is that if the only outside notice of something is in the form of mockery, that might be taken as an indication that the thing mentioned was poorly received and seen as useless. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 15:59, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
::Alemannic is one of the many dialects of German; there are no discussions to merge it into German language Wikipedia. As to the different varieties of Gaelic, how many of them have subprojects? - Scots, Irish, possibly Manx, and the variant in Brittany? - Should we therefore have one Wiki for "Gaelic", rather than three or four? - about ten million people have a passive knowledge of Plattdeutsch, about two million speak it natively. Is this reflected in the number of editors we have for Plattdeutsch? (and yes, with some effort it could probably be merged with the Dutch language Wiki). So please stop arguing that a project should be closed because it has little visibility; you had rather work towards increasing its visibility. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 11:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

:::I've been with Simple English wiki since 2009, and contributed about 2,600 articles, and over 60k article edits. To start with, the comparison with Donald Trump is misleading, because the top few En wiki articles are flushed by transient hits caused by notoriety. I kept records for many years of the simple pages I had written, especially the ones I had written without using copy-text from En wiki. I found the ratio was roughly 50 to one: there are about 50 En wiki hits to every one on Simple.
:::I edit subjects which are on basic school and university curricula, and try to write them much more simply that their counterparts on Englosh wiki. I always have been utterly shocked at the poor standard of prose written on En wiki. There are some exceptions, of course, and some whole areas where the contributions are superb. Music on En wiki is one example. But overall, the general standard is below poor. It is common to find sentences so long that it's clear the writer has completely lost track of where he started. Basic concepts are not explained properly. This is especially damaging where the topic is one which will occur on school syllabi. In fact, every possible error in writing prose can be liberally found on En wiki pages.
:::Moving on, moving on... The other topic is the link between a given article on En wiki and its counterpart in Simple. Many of us pleaded for putting the link for Simple at the top of the list of languages on En wiki pages. This was rejected. Now we get buried near the bottom of the list. Anything which improves the connection is to be welcomed.
:::Though it's only a minor point, remember that no branch of wikipedia has any effective kind of audience research. We don't even know who the users are! If we want to improve wikipedias in general, that is the place to look. It would be a major enterprise, of that I am sure. But it is the weak spot of all open wiki systems that they cannot know whether they achieve what they set out to do. If you think I'm exaggerating, have a look at the kind of developmental research done in programmed learning, and by the childrens' television workshop. [[User:Macdonald-ross|Macdonald-ross]] ([[User talk:Macdonald-ross|talk]]) 12:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*I mentioned Alemannic (als), Latin(la), and Scots wikipedia further up. Looking at the number of daily page views they are a factor of 20 behind SEWP (In the order of 10-20k, compared to the 500k of SEWP). Just for clarity... --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 18:26, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*I just have a very quick observation. There is a Wikipedia in Northern Sami. (se.) To the last data available (which is 20-30 years old), there are about 10-11 samic languages. These languages form two or three large groups; languages within the group are mutually understandable, those from another group need a lot of training/ exercise. Some of the languages had as little as 20 speakers (at the time the data was collected, that is either 1993 or 2002). In total, there were about 25.000 speakers of Samic languages; about 60% of them also understood Northern Sami. I could now argue that the about 7.000 people who did not understand Northern Sami, would proably not be able to profit from Northern Sami Wikipedia, and that Northern Sami Wikipedia should be closed down... And yes, ISP 639 has 11 (3-letter) codes for the different Sami Dialects. Different Sami dialects are recognised minority languages in Finland, Norway, and Sweden. Lets now assume that we capture 5% of the Sami people with our project. This would make almost 2.000 potential editors. Closing down Northern Sami would be amlost painless, yet, some people at the foundation consider Wikipedia to have a mission. Even if only very little money is spent on Northern Sami Wikipedia, its editor is much more valuable...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 18:03, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* You're wrong on one point: Poor readability on EnWP is actually ''strictly'' enforced. Just ''try'' going on one of the math or physics articles and adding something to make the concept clearer -- you'll be lambasted, denounced, and hit with such a wave of aggression you wonder if you can make it out of there without being banned. Certainly you will not make the mistake of trying it again any time soon. I mean, it's hard not to wonder if some of the folks there work for the textbook companies, who might have been wiser than Encyclopedia Britannica about doing what it takes to keep their business model viable. [[User:Wnt|Wnt]] ([[User talk:Wnt|talk]]) 22:56, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

===Line break===
*'''Note''' I have posted notice on the administrators noticeboard and village pumps of the English Wikipedia as this proposal would affect it (by diverting editors from simple to en.wiki) and it is the main Wikipedia for the English language, and thus participants from that language group would likely be inteterested. See: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)&diff=prev&oldid=846584293], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=846584217], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)&diff=prev&oldid=846584293], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Centralized_discussion&diff=prev&oldid=846589116]. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 17:31, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:*Will be interesting to see how the discussion goes now that it has been posted there because that is likely to cause the same thing that happens every time we try to have a cross wiki discussion involving the two projects, the English Wikipedia editors completely swamp and drown out anything that the Simple editors suggest due to numbers. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 17:06, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Note''' I have notified the English Wikipedia Medicine WikiProject at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#Proposal_for_closing_Simple_English_Wikipedia], as they have had some interaction with SEW in the past. --[[User:Mark viking|Mark viking]] ([[User talk:Mark viking|talk]]) 18:38, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I am very much in between on this. I think there are many reasons that this project should be closed but I also think that the concept has significant value. What I would like to see come from this is ''meaningful change'' within the community itself and administration. Simple, at it's heart is meant for readers, just like every other project. The content should be simplified for all the people it is meant to target. The problem is, the project is not attracting editors to bring that content and instead attracts all those mentioned above. This isn't about LTAs or vandals but I think the downfall of Simple Wikipedia has been the intense focus on the bureaucracy of it, where so much of the community and time is spent making the backend editing "simpler" and is being used as a stepping stone for editing that wouldn't be accepted elsewhere. Specifically, I think all of the backend stuff, the things that the target audience (readers) will never see or know exists, should mirror that of it's successful sister projects, meaning policies, guidelines, to an extent. This, in my opinion, will help attract competent editors again and get rid of that [[en:Mean Girls|"she doesn't even go here"]] attitude. If I am mistaken about the core purpose of this, I think the whole thing needs to be re-valuated as ultimately, this is an extension of an encyclopedia and ultimately the output is content and if we want to encourage people who would otherwise struggle, specifically due to language barriers or other issues on larger projects to edit, perhaps there needs to be a new project, similar to Wikiversity or test wiki. [[User:Chrissymad|Chrissymad]] ([[User talk:Chrissymad|talk]]) 19:35, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - I (and others) have voted above based on the merits of simplewiki, rather than the merging proposal given in the introduction. That proposal might be worth exploring, but should really be done on enwiki. A project to create "executive summaries" of pages could be started on enwiki and tested to see how it works. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 19:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. One of the problems of simple English is that it is actually very difficult to write well about a complex topic in simple English, but that is not a reason to shut it down. · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 20:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Question'''. Is the claim that closing simple will bring its editors to en: based on anything beyond wishful thinking? · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 20:08, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*:I know that for many editors on simplewiki, the fact that it isn't enwiki is a feature not a bug. Not everyone likes the bureaucracy and drama associated with a large project. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 22:13, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::It's more than wishful thinking, in my opinion. Ajrddatz is completely right; many of SEW's editors prefer it due to the lack of bureaucracy and drama that is plentiful in enwp. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:21, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Question''': Was a notice of this proposal posted anywhere on Simple English Wikipedia? I don't go there much, but there is nothing on the main page there. [[User:RudolfRed|RudolfRed]] ([[User talk:RudolfRed|talk]]) 20:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Yes. [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Simple_talk#There's_a_new_proposal_to_close_down_Simple_English_Wikipedia here] [[User:Operator873|Operator873]] ([[User talk:Operator873|talk]]) 20:33, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I haven't decided to support or oppose this proposal yet, but I have been looking over the Simple English Wikipedia, where I had never made any edits until today (in over 5 years of editing on this account). What I have found does not do much to convince me that the project should be kept, even though I have become skeptical of claims that "we need to delete everything!" since someone tried, unsuccessfully, to delete all portals on en.wiki (many of you of course know what I'm talking about). One of the biggest problems is that the Simple wiki is not very active, so vandalism can sometimes sit unchanged and unnoticed for much longer than it should (or would on en.wikipedia, or other much more active projects). This even happened over a decade ago and they covered it on NPR. [https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91371632 Apparently the Great Barrier Reef was discovered by 'Ben Dover']. This is what people need to bear in mind when someone says "what's the harm, so long as some people use it?" The answer is that it provides a relatively save haven for trolls, vandals, and good-faith users who don't understand how to create well-written and -sourced articles, all of whom can and do roam far too freely, often without anyone cleaning up their messes, on a project that is not very active. Simple also has the side effect of inviting [https://herald-review.com/blogs/decaturade/excerpts-from-simple-english-wikipedia/article_f4bf9e57-b1d5-5e16-bbc1-ecf0920e091d.html mockery] for its numerous poorly-written articles. I am also sympathetic to the idea of merging Simple with en.wikipedia.org, because English Wikipedia articles should be written simply enough for non-experts to understand them anyway (though I realize that's not quite the same thing as writing an article to be read by ESL students/children). But maybe it'd be a good idea to add a "simplified version" button as mentioned above by some users. [[User:Everymorning|Everymorning]] ([[User talk:Everymorning|talk]]) 21:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**{{rto|Everymorning}} Pretty much what I said, but shorter and probably nicer :) --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 08:26, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Question''': how large, active and well read is Simple English Wikipedia? Are there any other Wikipedias that are comparable? [[User:John Cummings|John Cummings]] ([[User talk:John Cummings|talk]]) 19:41, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*:We are talking about a team of about 25-35 active (long-term, named, non-vandal) editors. There are rougly 135k content pages. Depending on the day, there are between 500k and 600k unique page views per day.--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 11:29, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Question''': what strategies could be used to mitigate some of issues raised with Simple English? Are there any easy wins in this list? [[User:John Cummings|John Cummings]] ([[User talk:John Cummings|talk]]) 19:44, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

*While I personally don't think SEW is doing much good, I can see that this discussion is not heading toward a consensus to close it down. Maybe what SEW needs is an influx of new contributors to give it some newfound energy. I would be willing to be part of something like that, but I am not willing to spend much time contributing to SEW in its present state. [[User:Lepricavark|Lepricavark]] ([[User talk:Lepricavark|talk]]) 19:51, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
::{{yo|Lepricavark}} What do you think would make SEW more attractive to new editors? [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 21:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:::{{yo|Vermont}} for one thing, the very small number of regulars makes it hard for others to feel motivated to pitch in. As circular as this answer is, you need more editors to get more editors. I'm happy to be part of a community of contributors, but I don't want to be a lone ranger. I'm not entirely sure how you would go about recruiting new editors. [[User:Lepricavark|Lepricavark]] ([[User talk:Lepricavark|talk]]) 23:01, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
::{{od}} What could see (and what has already been done, I think) is to have a group of editors bring over & simplify a well-defined set of articles from EnWP. It has been done in the field of medicine, where a number of conditions were created & adapted for SEWP. Other things: we do have two levels of "better quality articles"; rasing an artcle to the respective level is a lot of work though, and doesn't occur too often, as we are only few editors. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 07:31, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
* A dedicated [[en:Wikipedia:Namespace|namespace in en.Wikipedia]] with some vestige of autonomous governance will be enough. In fact, I already proposed it ∼10 years ago, but nothing came from [[../Closure_of_Simple_English_Wikipedia_(2)|the previous discussion]] in general and this idea in particular. [[User:Incnis Mrsi|Incnis Mrsi]] ([[User talk:Incnis Mrsi|talk]]) 19:59, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
::If this results in the keeping of the project I believe it would be beneficial to add a link on enwiki articles to the Simple English version, perhaps on the top of the "In Other Languages" section. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 21:06, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:::We did at one point have an RfC on en to move the simple link to the top of the language list. It failed, but perhaps it could be had again to see if consensus has changed. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 14:29, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:::: This is already a reality with [[mw:Compact Language Links|Compact Language Links]]: wouldn’t say that Simple English Wikipedia appears exactly on top of language box, but it is consistently in language box in English Wikipedia for readers. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 17:07, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::I don't have Compact Language Links turn on for en so I guess I have not noticed. It was a few years back that we tried the RfC so it may have been before they were added. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 17:18, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' Rather than remove developed content, it seems preferable to seek better modes of delivery for the future. Tighter integration between simple.wikipedia and en.wikipedia could provide better oversight and clearer references, especially for biographies. For example, where simple.wikipedia has an article or section matching the en.wikipedia page being delivered, could it be treated as an optional extension feature, flagged using a ‘’Simple’’ link much like the ''Edit'' link, and the article/section text shown similarly to hovering over a reference? That said, reviewing some simple.wikipedia articles on places, on music and on theory this week has given me some concerns. I’ve seen: dubious factual accuracy, such as the River Forth flowing through Edinburgh, or Bebop involving improvising over a small number of chords (rather than probably a greater number and speed of complex chord changes than any other music?); undue attention to a brief trial hovercraft service on the Firth of Forth; content which is far from simple (anarchism described versus a ''"pragmatic philosophy of antidisestablishmentarianism"''), much of the article on Jacques Lacan listing his jargon terms, etc., and use of "famous" as a descriptor which adds nothing to a reader’s understanding. Each of these is, of course, open to a "so fix it" objection, and might be improved by more eyes on the simple.wikipedia content. Perhaps encouraging specialist project groups on en.wikipedia to review simple.wikipedia content in their areas could be a start. [[User:AllyD|AllyD]] ([[User talk:AllyD|talk]]) 15:38, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

=== Unique status of this wiki ===
I see many arguments pop up about abuse in the project and I don’t regard it as a valid way of thinking, but what I don’t see from ‘support’ side is the justification for keeping the entirely unique status of Simple English wikis (both Wikipedia and Wiktionary) in our movement. Could someone stop arguing about LTAs for a moment and give their thoughts on this specific argument? As a non-English editor, it’s hard for me to fathom or justify the continued existence of Simple English Wikipedia under such lens and it’s sad that mostly English-speaking people don’t engage with this particular thing about current Simple English project in its current and continuing status when (as LangCom is robotically bureaucratic to its core and unable to do any ‘controversial’ decisions that move from their documents) this request will be decided to be rejected. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 22:46, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:Sorry I don't have any references but it is known that some English speakers are intelligent but struggle to comprehend standard written English. Compare [[:simple:Charles Darwin]] and [[:en:Charles Darwin]] and many others. I don't know of any studies regarding users of Simple but there are good editors there as well as LTAs—just like enwiki! [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 00:56, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::I believe it is also of use by non-native speakers who have conversational English. I have also used it, as a native speaker, to understand some of the more insanely complicated articles. I don't think there would be any objection if another major wiki (Germany etc) wanted to create its counterpart (assuming it survives). [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) 13:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:: Given that there were proposals of such projects [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Simple German 4|in German]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia French Simple 3|French]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Simple Chinese|Chinese]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Simple Spanish 2|Spanish]], and [[Wikipedia in Simple Portuguese|Portuguese]], is it really a unique situation to English that could warrant keeping situation as is? I don’t have a non-procedural opinion on this matter, but to keep Simple English Wikipedia, given its current unique status in our movement, without ISO code, without counterparts in other languages, seems unfair to me. I get that the volunteers don’t want to lose their hard work, but the more thoughtout solution would not be to keep Simple English WP as it is right now, but either to transform it to something integral in Wikimedia movement or move it somewhere else. The status quo just shows that Anglo-centric nature of our movement is still alive and well even today. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 17:01, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I believe the LangCom has said they would be ok with other language ones if they had a formalized basic version of that particular language in the same way that [[simple:Basic English|Basic English]] exists for English. I may be wrong but I think they are currently trying out a French one by starting it on the French wiki with the plans to move it off on its own if it works. Atleast that is what my shabby memory is telling me, it may have been another language. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 17:12, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

=== High participation from native English speakers, but... ===
I could see here a lot of ''oppose'' votes made from mostly native English speakers who feel directly ''touched'' by this RfC (of course, it is their mother tongue), but no so much participation from the target audience of SEWP: ESL/ESFL readers and readers with comprehension problems, if I do not forget other target readers. Their voices will be welcome and will contribute to reach a more inclusive consensus if possible. A consensus from a single language or single cultural origin community (which could not represent Wikimedia community as a whole) is not a consensus. Whatever the result of this RfC would be, more constructive comments are welcome, from either side, and feel free to write your comment in your own language. --[[User:Zerabat|Zerabat]] ([[User talk:Zerabat|discusión]]) 15:27, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
:As a native English speaker language instructor, you have a point. But, I would suggest that many language learners just focus on the article content and skip over all of the editing and admin stuff and things in the left column. You might be surprised how many university students are still unaware that they can edit Wikipedia. Depending upon the course I have assigned editing SEWP articles to learners at times. Not a single one had ever edited before. And, the level of language in these lengthy discussions would likely turn off many SEWP readers. All that said, yes, input from L2 users of English is always important. Thank you for encouraging it. --[[User:Gotanda|Gotanda]] ([[User talk:Gotanda|talk]]) 05:54, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
::I agree that we need input from non-native speakers of English, but it's hard to measure that. Also, I'd not recommend SEW and a place for ESLs learning English to edit. SEW content is supposed to be simple, but ESLs don't do simple - they do errors. Writing a proper SEW/Basic English article should require no less language fluency then writing a regular English article. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 10:28, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
:::You wrote, "ESLs don't do simple - they do errors." Unsupported criticisms like this are not helpful, but may be revealing. It is not common practice to refer to learners in the literature or in the profession as "ESLs." If you are teaching in Korea you should know that the teaching is EFL, not ESL, and that learners are people not acronyms (though ELLs is used sometimes). I'll speak to my own experience as a language learner and educator. All writers make errors. L2 users of English make errors as well. They can also make extraordinary sense. They are more than capable of contributing to a wiki like Simple or others ([https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ELTted I will provide examples]), and with instruction and support can do quite well. Writing for an authentic audience (the web, other learners, etc.) can be quite motivating. Summarizing and paraphrasing are basic academic literacy skills for all students (native or non-native speakers of any language) and Simple is a useful way to do that and share the results with others. --[[User:Gotanda|Gotanda]] ([[User talk:Gotanda|talk]]) 02:27, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': Can this proposal be [[:en:WP:SNOW]]-closed as "no consensus" (which I assume results in the wiki being kept open, because on enwiki AFD, a "no consensus" close results in the article being kept)? [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 18:25, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
*:SNOW closes are not permitted on Meta. See [[SNOW]]. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 21:27, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I think you might mean [[Meta:Snowball]] for the actual policy. — AfroThundr ([[User:AfroThundr3007730|u]] · [[User talk:AfroThundr3007730|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/AfroThundr3007730|c]]) 21:25, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
*If this is somehow successful, we should move the content to a Miraheze site (because that seems to be the only wikifarm that supports most of the WMF extensions) instead of en.wiki. (Moving the content of the Wiktionary and the already-closed Wikibooks and Wikiquote to Miraheze sites may also be suitable.) [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 17:27, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

==Counterproposal==
Instead of trying to integrating simple: into en:, which would probably be much like integrating a snowball into hell, keep it as an independent wiki, but make the interwiki links much more prominent between the two on the principle that each is the alternative wiki most likely to be useful to a person using the other. This would make simple: far more visible, and that might be sufficient to kickstart it into a new level of activity and push the quality up a notch or two.

The communities are different. Integration would basically overwhelm and probably destroy the simple: community. Any not-blocked user on any wikimedia project can already edit on any other, so technically nearly all en: users are already users on simple: and vice versa. Closer linking while remaining independent may allow simple: to develop into what it should be. If it doesn't work, little harm will have been done, and the process would be reversible. If it does work, great good may be done. Cheers, · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 06:35, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:I definitely support making the interwikis more prominent on English. It was proposed awhile back on English to do just that but the community there ended up shooting down the proposal with reasoning something along the lines of that would give us special status. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 11:15, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::It would give special status between en: and simple:, but they are the same language basically, so special status would not be unreasonable. The two Wikipedias are not in competition, we are all working towards the same goals. The special status would work both ways. The advantage would probably be more to the benefit of simple:, but this cannot be known for certain without testing. It is also possible that both projects would benefit, and there is no evidence that I am aware of that it would be any disadvantage at all to en: If it does take any traffic away from en: that would be a fairly good indication that the equivalent article on en: is sub-optimal, and that there is a need for simpler articles which would be valuable feedback. In some cases it is very obvious that the article on en: is poor quality, but an analysis of readers switching between the two might be useful to show where and how both can be improved. I do not think that en: could be threatened in any way by such a change. It may or may not gain much, but there is potential for simple: to gain a lot, the movement to gain a lot, and the reading public to gain a lot. No loss, net gain. Seems a good bet to me. · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 14:44, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

:Based on my observation of my ESL university students, very few notice interwiki links. They'd have to be made MUCH MORE prominent to be useful. A cosmetic move to, let's say, where links to commons/wikivoyage are (higher on the left menu) won't cut it. This has to be at least as visible as a new tab, next to read/edit, etc. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 12:26, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
::If there was a "Simple" tab on ENWP, could it not just take the reader to a matching article on SEWP and vice versa? [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] ([[User talk:Green Giant|talk]]) 13:03, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Yes, I think a tab which can lead readers to SEWP or a template like commonscat can both be helpful to increase visibility but that is possible if enwiki agrees and per {{u|Djsasso}} that might not be the case.-[[User:BRPever|BRP]]'''[[User talk:BRPever|'' ever'']]''' 13:38, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Technically it would be quite simple. It is just a matter of dressing up a hyperlink so that it displays in a different place and looks a bit different to what already exists. · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 15:42, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::Yes, it's very easy to add a new tab using CSS. But I doubt that the enwiki community would go for it. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 16:50, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
:::It could, but what's the point of having a separate SEW platform, with a duplicated category structure, and all other support stuff, including for example duplicated, low visibility talk pages? --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 10:25, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I actually have code on both wiki's to do just that for myself. It bounces me back and forth. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 13:56, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
::::That's super neat. I'm using that now. :) Considering how easy this would be to implement, I don't see why there should be significant opposition to this on enwiki. — AfroThundr ([[User:AfroThundr3007730|u]] · [[User talk:AfroThundr3007730|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/AfroThundr3007730|c]]) 21:26, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
What if redlinks were linked to the relevant Wikipedia article (if applicable)? If this were done, I would suggest putting some sort of superscript Wikipedia logo next to the link. Basically it would be like RationalWiki’s system, but automatic. Just an idea; this would probably need a separate RfC. —[[User:pythoncoder|''' pythoncoder ''']] ([[User talk:pythoncoder|talk]] | [[Special:Contribs/pythoncoder|contribs]]) 20:29, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
My proposal to rename as "Concise" and autoli8nk the leads from Wikipedia article leads to any currently non-existent Concise Wikipedia page seems on point as far as I can tell. In addition, I will note that a great many editors are proud of their unreadable prose and great length of articles. Articles which require a Ph.D. to understand do not really help most living people. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 12:37, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

==A request from myself to the LANGCOM==

I write to you today as a native speaker of Danish, who uses English as a second language. I have written this statement against the closure of the Simple English Wikipedia in my best English. I doubt I'll mess it up, but you never know - It wouldn't be the first time I have screwed up, I doubt also it will be the last.

I am disheartened that this proposal has been opened. The reason given being that we as a project, are simply not reaching our target audience.

The Simple English Wikipedia has existed since before the standard rules and guidance for a project to exist were created. This means that technically, we're a grandfathered project.

And yet, here we are having to justify our existence to the LANGCOM - a group of people who hadn't been in existence too long when we opened, against rules which nobody had created and against people who don't even use our Wikipedia.

SEWP is a project which grew out of a thought for accessibility, to help users of English as a second or subsequent language. The primary English wikipedia contains many articles which simply are not written at a level which English learners or non-native users could understand.

When comparing the work of simple english wikipedia with that of the primary english wikipedia, the first thing people think we're doing is "dumbing down". Which we're not - what we're doing is making the work easier to understand.

Nobody should be thought of as being "dumb" because they need to have things written in a manner which makes them accessible. That means blind people are dumb, because they can't read written text, no? No. Of course not! That's just ridiculous.

But this is just one part of the argument against our existence. Another is that we attract banned users and vandals from other projects who just want to mess with us. That in itself is patently wrong. Find me a project which doesn't attract vandals, and I'll show you a Wikipedia with a read-only database.

I began working with the SEWP, when I realised that the bureaucratic nature of the primary English Wikipedia, mixed with the manner and complexity of their article writing, meant that my chances of contributing meaningfully were about the same as me giving birth sometime in the near future.

I have now been with SEWP for two and a half years, and in that time, have made more than eight times the number of edits on SEWP as I have on the primary English Wikipedia. Why? Because it's easier to use. I believe in the goal of Wikipedia, which I found out from a guy called Steven Walling: To assemble the sum of all human knowledge and make it available for everyone for free, in their own language.

I believe that this goal should include making it available in a manner which people can freely understand without help. This is why we're here.

To close the Simple English Wikipedia without an accessible alternative would be damaging to the goal and work of Wikipedia. I hope that the LANGCOM will understand how much the (serious) editors of SEWP care about what we do.

I would never vote to close any Wikipedia project with an active community.

If there are problems, tell us.

If we need solutions, help us find them.

Don't disband us because we don't meet your goals.

Remember, your goals didn't exist when we began.

[[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 17:50, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
:I agree with you on every single point there. Sincerely, '''[[User:Xenrose|Xenrøse]]''' • '''[[User talk:Xenrose|T]]''' 00:07, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
::The bigger issue IMO is how do we get the main EN WP written in easier to understand language (especially the leads)? Those who do this work often get insults thrown at them. But that of course is an EN WP issue not a simple EN WP issue... [[User:Doc James|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 07:03, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
:::You are right, {{yo|Doc James}}. But maybe it's something to put to ENWP's editors, a few of them are here campaigning for our closure. If ENWP's articles were easier to understand, there would have been no need for us.
:::Until they are, we have a place. Maybe some of SEWP's editors should drop by and try to simplify some of their articles to see the reaction; it would help us gauge feeling. What do you think? [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 07:35, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Agree [[User:DaneGeld]]. Simplification is, however, super difficult as it is very easy to change the meaning if one is not careful. [[User:Doc James|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 11:04, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::Simplification is annoying, causes addiction to caffeine and makes you wish you could tear your hair out sometimes. But we do it because of a wish to. There are articles I know from EN, which we could '''''never''''' simplify, because one slight hiccup and we could change something which makes sense into complete and utter garbage (think [[:en:Quantum mechanics]] and you'll get a good idea of what I mean). Maybe we could start a course at Wikiversity in how to write in Simple English, for the benefit of regular editors who wish to help out. It would be so much better if we could just get along. [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 15:45, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
::There are two separate set of problems SEW tries to solve. One is '''making editing process friendlier''', and the other is '''accessible content'''. For all of the wikipedias, content is arguably the bigger goal here. In order to achieve that, editing needs to be a positive experience. Since the number of articles on SEW is quite sparse relative to WP EN, why not harness the strength and benefits of WP EN, with bonus of not dealing with banned LTA's? Perhaps a template on certain EN WP articles (starting with the existing 140,000 corresponding articles on SEW) can state that an accessible SEW lede should be included in the top (I know SEW does not imply article length, but rather style), or through some special EN WP feature, be visible to those who have it enabled. This doesn't solve the problem of a frustratingly pedantic editing experience on EN WP, but we can work on that. [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 15:44, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

:Dear DaneGeld. The goal of SEW is not to be a more friendly editing place. It is to create helpful content that is easily available. That SEW is more friendly/easy than EnWP is irrelevant to the wider world. The point is that SEW creates useful content (setting aside spam/etc.) that is not widely seen, because most Wikipedia users/Internauts don't know of SEW. SEW was a great idea that should've never been an independent wiki. It should've been a feature of EN Wikipedia (and others). I am sorry to say this, but it is time for your 'safe, friendly' playground to grow up and become useful to the world (which reads ENWP, not SEW). It doesn't matter how old SEW is and how nice it is and so on. We are here to build useful stuff, not hidden gardens for small groups that end up duplicating efforts (content) with bigger projects for no good reason other then "our small wiki is a nicer/friendlier place then the big scary ENWP". --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 10:24, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
::I think your opinions (because that is what they are) that people don't read simple have been thoroughly discredited at this point because the traffic stats clearly show that isn't the case. Clearly it is useful to a very large number of people. I believe it was 7.9 million unique hits per month. One of the goals of simple is actually to make editing simpler as well as the language. It is very clear you didn't actually know much about simple when you made this nomination. I don't know what got this bee in your bonnet about simple considering you don't at all edit there, and its existence doesn't in any way impact ENWP. Being that closed projects generally still remain visible once closed in a perpetual frozen state, there are no resources to be saved. Simple's goals are not just to duplicate English Wikipedia and suggesting we are just a duplicate is ridiculous because we fulfill a gap that doesn't get filled by English Wikipedia. Would I like to see English Wikipedia filling that gap, of course I would. I just don't think its likely possible, mostly because of editors like yourself who seem to look down on Simple English. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 13:52, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Piotrus, you are right that the goal of the SEWP is to create helpful content that is easily available - but do you honestly, for one nanosecond, think that people who have trouble writing in English are going to attempt to edit articles on the main English Wikipedia? Of course, [[:en:WP:CIR|Competence is Required]], but it's much easier to create that content in an environment where we're not getting bogged to death with more abbreviations than we know what to do with and people telling us this is wrong, this is wrong, that doesn't belong there, etc. We're friendlier and quite frankly, far more welcoming than the ENWP. We're not stuck in red tape and arguments over things that seem completely pointless. The difference between ENWP and SEWP is like the difference between sticking a leg of beef with your bare hand into a Lion's mouth, and petting your neighbours exceptionally friendly Chihuahua. [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 15:40, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

==Time for an RfC on En Wiki==
Regardless of the outcome of this proposal, we should start an RfC on En Wiki on whether or how the En wiki community would like to see SEW integrated (again, independent of whether SEW is closed or not). This perhaps could be phrased as follows, with regard to some options that ENWP community should discuss/vote (please suggest what else we may want to ask the ENWP community).

Concerns have been raised that the [[Simple English Wikipedia]] is not reaching its audience (due to very low visibility), and that this could be improved through closer integration with the English Wikipedia. Other concerns about SEW have been raised as well, and there is [[:meta:Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Simple English Wikipedia (3)|ongoing discussion on meta about the future of SEW]].

With the understanding that ENWP cannot make any binding decisions regarding SEW future (which is to be decided by the [[:meta:Language committee]] and the [[:meta:Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees]]), which of the following scenarios would be best for ENWP:
* change nothing (don't make SEW more visible then it is now)
* improve SEW visibility option 1: move a link to SEW articles from 'Languages' to 'Other projects' (where we list Commons, Wikivoyage, etc.) left nav/toolbar?
* improve SEW visibility option 2: add a link to a SEW article to the top of the article, next to the read tab perhaps, to improve its visibility making the average reader aware of the SEW's existence (since very few regular users bother looking at the links on the left anyway y and it is likely most average readers are unaware of SEW's existence?) Options: a) nothing, or b) a red link to create a new article on SEW
* close SEW and merge it namespace articles into a new ENWP namespace: create a new 'simple' namespace on English Wikipedia, to be populated while SEW is closed while its mainspace articles are copied/transwikified to the ENWP? That namespace would be best accessible through a new simple tab, like discussed in the previous option.

Separate from the above:
* how, if at all, should we improve the visibility of the SEW link in the Wikipedia mobile app? Right now (AFAIK) mobile page does not not link 'Other Projects' at all. There's plenty of room to add a SIMPLE link next to the language choice tool, for example. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page Mobile Wikipedia link]. So, a) should a link to SEW be added to the mobile version next to the language button or b) should SEW be available as the first option from the currently alphabetical list of languages in the mobile language menu?

Anything I missed that you think would be good to ask on ENWP? (Also, if anyone wants to start an RfC there before I get to it, go ahead). --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 11:15, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
:This sort of RfC would make sense, once this discussion is closed for a number of reasons. 1. It would mean we knew if we could take your option #4 off the table or not. 2. It would allow a much more focused set of options and messaging. 3. It would also avoid being the canvassing this would appear to be if posted in the middle of this discussion here especially since its been posted in a number of places there already. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]])
:Aren't we doing the same thing here? For me this RFC means:
*Clearly saying SEWP community don't have a say in the matter and should do as ENWP community decides for it. So, this kind of discussion should be carried out after and in regards to this discussion.
:Also, it is posted in many noticeboards in en so keeping a section here and commenting here seems fine.-[[User:BRPever|BRP]]'''[[User talk:BRPever|'' ever'']]''' 15:35, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
*Why would we waste our time on ENWP holding overly-complicated, non-binding community discussions with multiple trifling "options", before there is any hard mandate to integrate Simple whatsoever? Sounds like a foolproof way to get a "no consensus" result and waste everyone's time. Cut out all of the bullshit, and come up with a straightforward, common sense, yes or no proposal, ''here'', to integrate Simple into a new namespace on ENWP. Common sense dictates that it should be visible via tab at the top, but if you really need the community to decide that, those details can be hammered out ''after'' it gets a consensus to happen and it gets approved by LANGCOM. Just my opinion, though. [[User:Swarm|Swarm]] ([[User talk:Swarm|talk]]) 03:25, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
**Riiiight. Pick one option and act like there are no other options. Lets have an RfC on reducing drunk driving, but instead of choosing between options like increased enforcement, more education or having bartenders hold your keys, just ask "death penatly for dunk drivers, yes or no." --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 16:17, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Simple English Wikipedia (3)

2018-06-28T18:25:53Z

Lojbanist: /* High participation from native English speakers, but... */

{{Closing project proposal|type = 2|content =English Wikipedia|notice=[[:simple:Talk:Main Page#This project is not reaching a target audience. Propose closure and integration with En Wiki]].}}
{{notice|'''Please keep in mind that all project closure discussions are advisory. The [[:m:Language committee|Language Committee]] and [[Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees|WMF Board]] make all final decisions on project closures.''' For LangCom: [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 19:56, 20 June 2018 (UTC)}}
 
==Proposal==
I will try to keep it simple, and the most simple TL;DR thing to say is - the king is naked and SEW is effectively useless. It was, certainly, a good intention (a project whose target audience are "people with different needs, such as students, children, adults with learning difficulties, and people who are trying to learn English".), but queue in the proverb about good intentions. More than 10 years on, there is no proof that the project is reaching its target audience; on the contrary, it is doubtful it is used by anyone - it's a curio visited by its small group of volunteers and occasionally some random person stumbles upon it, looks around bewildered, and heads back to the much more comprehensive English Wikipedia. I have been teaching students at university in English in South Korea, and not once have I found a student (or a single regular person in Korea or Poland, outside Wikipedia volunteers) who knows of this project. SEW does not show up in Google (or other) search engines, and remains a curiosity, known to some people in the Wikipedia movement - but, again, not to its intended audience.

Now, closure doesn't mean the end of the idea of helping special audiences. We can do it better - in the place which is known to those audiences, i.e. English Wikipedia itself. The best solution would be to integrate it into English Wikipedia through a new tab or prominent button. Nobody clicks on the SEW interlanguage link, and hence very few people, including SEW target audience of ESLs and other special audiences, is aware of it and benefits from the effort of SEW volunteers. So instead of the intuitive 'object, don't close my beloved project', please consider a conditional support 'close if En Wiki gets a new feature to showcase SE content'). INHO this would be the ideal outcome, and then this closure proposal, while put on hold, could be brought to WMF and En Wiki community to discuss how to implement such a feature.

Few other points.

How do you know almost nobody is using this project? Impact comparison: page views for Donald Trump on SE: 187 a day ([https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=simple.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&pages=Donald_Trump]), vs EN Wiki: 50,963
[https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&pages=Donald_Trump], so that's a ratio of 1:1000, roughly. If the project was used by ESLs, who outnumber native speakers by ~10x or so, those numbers would be widely different. But they are not.

Another dimension: SEW school projects list on average one educational project a year: [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Schools/Projects]. En wiki gets dozens if not hundreds of such projects every year ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:School_and_university_projects] is obsolete, but see [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/explore] for a newer version - note how many of those projects are from ESLs (through not all target En wiki)). The point here, is, again, that as a platform to engage ESL students, SEW has failed. Instructors who want to use Wikipedia in education will do so on normal Wikipedia, not on the obscure and unknown SEW.

But what about the claim from English Wikipedia that "Material from the Simple English Wikipedia forms the basis for One Encyclopedia per Child,[ a One Laptop per Child project"?
[[:en:One Laptop per Child]] is a nice imitative, but I have not been able to find any studies or data suggesting its use of SEW is significant. They have been using SEW content for 10+ years - without so much as a single academic study suggesting or confirming it is a good idea. Without scholarly analysis, we cannot say that SEW has educational benefits, one could just as well argue that it gives readers a dumbed down, poorly referenced/written version of content they need. If SEW was really useful, it would be more popular.

An overview of scholarly literature on SEW, again, does not show any indication that the project is useful to its target audience, the few academic papers that discuss it do so generally from the computer science/linguistics perspective, using its simplified word data set for some lingustica/cs analysis like: [https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2002865]. This suggests that the only real world group that finds some moderate use of this projects are a few lingustic/computer science scholars who have a new dataset to play with. While as a scholar myself I appreciate new data sets, I don't think a project whose only effective use is allowing few scholar to publish some obscure research is what we should be supporting.

What do we lose by allowing SEW to exist? There are few dozens if not hundreds volunteers involved in this project, creating content of very little, if any, impact. Their work should would be much more beneficial (to the entire world, including the SEW target audiences of ESLs and others, who - again - generally are not aware of SEW existence, and use En Wiki anyway) if it was incorporated with en Wiki. Some of those volunteers are clearly confused; just a few days ago I copied content from SEW about [[:en:Lee Sang-Bong]], an article that should've been created on en wiki, and that does not seem particularly 'simply written' to me. In addition to misdercting few hundred of volunteers into creating content of little impact, maintaining its infrastructure/views does consume some (if small) portion of WMF budget. Those donations are a limited resource, and even if this project effectively costs [insert random small sum here], this money could be spend on something that is actually useful to a wider group (ex. readers of English Wikipedia, which, yes, I am repeating myself, include majority of SEW target's audience).

It is also worth nothing that SEP suffers from spam. I run [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3Flinkcount%0Awith%20%7B%20%0A%20%20select%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3Fsitelink%20WHERE%0A%7B%0A%09%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ5%20.%0A%09%3Fsitelink%20schema%3Aabout%20%3Fitem%20.%0A%09%3Fsitelink%20schema%3AisPartOf%20%3Chttps%3A%2F%2Fsimple.wikipedia.org%2F%3E%20.%0A%20%20%20%7D%20%20%20%20%20%20%0A%7D%20as%20%25s%0Awhere%20%7B%0A%20include%20%25s%0A%20FILTER%20NOT%20EXISTS%20%7B%20%3Fwfr%20schema%3Aabout%20%3Fitem%20.%20%3Fwfr%20schema%3AinLanguage%20%22en%22.%20%7D%0A%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Fitem%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3FitemLabel.%20filter%28lang%28%3FitemLabel%29%3D%22en%22%29%7D%0A%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Fitem%20wikibase%3Asitelinks%20%3Flinkcount%20.%7D%20%0A%7D%0AORDER%20BY%20DESC%28%3Flinkcount%29 a query on Wikidata] for articles missing from En wiki that are on simple, and indicative - the first three hits were two deleted articles ([[:en:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amir Talai]], [[:en:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Maggard (3rd nomination)]]) and one that was a redirect ([[:en:Brenda Ann Spencer]]).

Bottom line, SEW volunteers may think they are helping ESLs or people with special needs, but they are not, because those people don't know about SEW. They are, therefore, sadly enough, effectively wasting their time. Once the project is merged to En Wiki and closed, they can continue their efforts to improve content of interest to those people, simplify jargon per MoS, or such, on En Wiki.

One final note. I intend no disrespect to the volunteers who created and maintain SEW. Their heart is in the right place, but I do believe that their efforts are misguided and end up creating a trivial site, not something that is useful to the people they intend to help. There is some value in simple explanations of articles, but if you consider [https://lifehacker.com/5935776/simple-english-wikipedia-makes-complex-subjects-easily-understandable] or [https://www.pcmag.com/article/351839/the-best-tools-to-improve-your-wikipedia-experience], note that they suggest that SEW is/should be a feature of English Wikipedia. To some degree, this is a feature issue, SEW simplified versions of articles would be much more useful if they could be accessed from some prominent button on English Wikipedia (nobody looks at the language links to find SEW link...). If SEW volunteers care about having an impact and getting their efforts to the target audiences, they should support this proposal, perhaps conditionally on En Wiki adding a new, prominent feature, something like 'read a Simple English version of this article'. The effective way of bringing SE content to the wider world has to be done through the site that the world uses (i.e. English Wiki). Ending on that hopefully more constructive thought, [[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 08:42, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

==Survey==
*{{s}} closing it. Simple is more effort than it is worth to maintain. I support maintaining it while we have it, but what it basically is now is a playground for vandals, spambots, LTAs, and people who have been blocked from various other WMF wikis to try to prove that they should be unblocked on their home wiki. It takes up more volunteer time than it provides value. For what it’s worth, en.wikinews is probably a better candidate for closing first, but simple still shouldn’t exist. Also, to the comments above about would we shut down other small language Wikis, well, that's the thing: Simple English isn't a language group. We already have a Wikipedia for English. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 17:17, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong Oppose''' It's viewed by over a half million people daily, has over 130,000 articles, and provides useful content for many. I see no reason to close it, and the vandal/LTA issue is managed without issue. There are vandals on all Wikipedias; it's no reason to warrant closing an entire project. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 17:49, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**It is when it causes disruption to the entire movement. Simple is a breeding ground for the worst parts of the internet. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 17:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Saying that it's a "breeding ground for the worst parts of the internet" is exaggerating the issue exponentially. It is not causing enough disruption to warrant closing the project. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 17:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Also keep in mind that although some LTA's may use it to vandalize people's talk pages and harass them, if this project is closed because of it the main effect will be the exact opposite of WP:DENY, as it'll give the LTA's a sense of victory, and all they'll do is move to another wiki. Just yesterday, I blocked an account on simple.wikipedia and they began harassing me by editing my commons and cy.wiki talk pages. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:43, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::'''comment''' view count in this context is pretty meaningless and should be taken with a grain of salt. Look at the spambot filters for any given project. [[User:Chrissymad|Chrissymad]] ([[User talk:Chrissymad|talk]]) 17:52, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Strong oppose''' — community is active, wiki can be useful for English starters. '''[[User:Marshmallych|M]]''' ''[[User talk:Marshmallych|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/Marshmallych|c]]'' 17:57, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}}. Very much for the reasons provided. I appreciate that editors have invested a lot of time building it, but in my opinion it has been time wasted. [[User:ToastButterToast|ToastButterToast]] ([[User talk:ToastButterToast|talk]]) 17:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Could I ask why this time is wasted? There are dozens of of other Wikipedias with a lot of volunteer time spent on it and mostly all of them have less of an audience than the SEW. Are you suggesting that closing down the Simple English Wikipedia, which will free up about 20 editors, is worth it? [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:02, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}} closing it. I've dabbled in Simple here and there and I've found it's highly inconsistent. What language is "simple" versus language that's, I don't know, overly complex? The spirit behind the idea was wonderful, but what's there is really just a mishmash of articles that aren't as well-written, detailed, or comprehensive as their enwiki counterparts, ''as an inherent limitation imposed by simplicity''. Eventually, when constructing an article in "simple" English, you reach a point where you either sacrifice complex details due to the limited vocabulary, or sacrifice simplicity in the interest of content. Compare for example [[:simple:Mourning dove]] (a "very good article") with [[:en:Mourning dove]] (also a featured article) - the two are practically indistinguishable, except that some of the language has been simplified in simplewiki, but not to the point that you'd expect a reader in Simple's target audience would not still have difficulty understanding the material. And once you get to that point, why not just direct that development to enwiki?
:On the other hand, the effort of creating a wiki that's easy to use on the project side is magnificent, and I do hope that at least some of the simplified terminology makes its way into enwiki. All of the pages linked from [[simple:Wikipedia:Rules]] are fantastic. [[User:Ivanvector|Ivanvector]] ([[User talk:Ivanvector|talk]]) 18:00, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::The article [[:simple:Mourning dove]] is in Simple English. Put the pages side-by-side, and you'll notice the distinct difference in phrasing and linking. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' closing. To put it mildly, simple.wiki is a joke. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 18:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - This isn't a zero-sum game in terms of resources. There is an active community of volunteers maintaining simplewp, and there are very little WMF or global community resources that need to be expended on maintaining it. It's true that simple English isn't a language, but I'm not concerned about that since the project has a dedicated community and reader base. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 18:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**But its not being maintained... That's the problem. It basically exists for LTAs to create accounts and harass people and a place for people who have been blocked in their home wikis to go and be toxic in hopes of getting unblocked later. None of that is good for the movement. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:20, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
***Closing the project won't resolve the problem - LTAs would just go to other wikis to create accounts and do the harassment, etc. This is not specific to simplewiki. Whether or not it's maintained, there are several sysops in the project and they should have an idea about this. -★- [[User:PlyrStar93|'''PlyrStar93''']] →[[User_talk:PlyrStar93|Message me. ]]← 18:36, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
****Yes; simple does a relatively good job compared with some other projects (*cough* enwikiversity *cough*) when dealing with the enwiki-banned crowd. Deleting simple won't remove that problem. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 19:00, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - While it is a niche project, it has it's place, especially for articles on the technical side. [[User:Tazerdadog|Tazerdadog]] ([[User talk:Tazerdadog|talk]]) 18:22, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}}, sadly. There are too many examples where it has been used to push a POV rejected here, with no real notice or oversight. [[User:JzG|JzG]] ([[User talk:JzG|talk]]) 18:41, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*:Could you provide an example, please? - If there are many, finding one shouldn't be difficult...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 18:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}}--[[User:Ozzie10aaaa|Ozzie10aaaa]] ([[User talk:Ozzie10aaaa|talk]]) 18:45, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' closure of an active project. It’s well-used and the apparent issues about LTA doesn’t mean it needs closing. [[User:Aiken drum|Aiken drum]] ([[User talk:Aiken drum|talk]]) 18:53, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Without firmly dissucssed RFC on proposed merger. Closing the project to me would also send the wrong message to potential ESOL contributors. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 18:55, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''': per Vermont and Ajraddatz, this would be the closure of an active project that receives enough traffic to sustain itself. I fail to see a purpose behind that. [[User:Javert2113|Javert2113]] ([[User talk:Javert2113|talk]]) 18:58, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' If it isn’t getting through to it’s target audience then the solution is to ask the WMF for help in raising its progfile, not to shut it down. If there is a serious problem with trolls and LTA wingnuts to the extent that the local admin corps can’t handle it, the project should consider using flagged revisions as a solution. [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]] ([[User talk:Beeblebrox|talk]]) 19:02, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Weak oppose''' I think the points made by Piotrus are very good, as same with Ivanvector, but I think, all in all, SEW still has its place, and a legitimate one for sure. It could do with some TLC, but not closing. [[User:My name is not dave|My name is not dave]] ([[User talk:My name is not dave|talk]]) 19:17, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The SEW could use a lot of work, but it's not a net negative. I don't think closing it is necessary at this point. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 19:31, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' if it needs improvement, let's suggest how to improve it. This reminds me of an AFD where the principle vote to delete is "I don't like it". With 500,000 hits a day, it's far from dead (unlike, say, Wikinews). And like AFD, we can simply work on improving it rather than consigning it to the annals of history. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 19:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support merge''' – The key quality of Simple English wp is to offer an easily-accessible summary of each topic, rather than the comprehensive, and sometimes dense, en-wiki articles. Compare this to the lede section of an enwiki article, which when well-written should effectively convey the essentials about the subject matter. A reader can skim Wikipedia and get a fairly basic understanding of anything by just reading the lede sections. In that spirit, I would very much support the OP's suggestion of a new tab in enwiki that would show the "simple" version of the article. This could be edited together with the main article, provided some technical markup mechanism is devised (a few templates and scripts could probably do the job without changing mediawiki code). This would elegantly resolve all issues:
:# More visibility for the simple-English versions of articles;
:# Harnessing volunteer work by Simple English editors;
:# Incentivizing the general population of English-language editors to keep simple-English versions up to date;
:# Easier policing thanks to advanced anti-vandalism tools and legion of admins working on enwp.
:In summary, a merge looks beneficial to everybody. [[User:JFG|JFG]] ([[User talk:JFG|talk]]) 19:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:*'''Strongly oppose merge''' - The quality of the articles on simple.wiki is such that any merge with en.wiki would be detrimental to the reputation and integrity of en.wiki. There is simply not the time or the manpower available to take on the task of bringing simple.wiki up to the standards expected at en.wiki. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 00:14, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}} closing. Idea is fine, but execution problematic (as usual). —[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] [[User_Talk:Beetstra|T]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|C]] (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 19:50, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
** [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/I_love_socking]. —[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] [[User_Talk:Beetstra|T]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|C]] (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 20:28, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Blocked. Thanks for reporting it. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 20:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - The project fills an important niche. If it suffers from lack of visibility, per [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]], deletion is not the solution. As with '''any''' wiki, there are problems, some unique to the project. However, closing the project would be tantamount to shooting the horse over a thrown shoe. You can supplement whatever anecdote your feel most comfortable with. The wisdom still applies. Lets address and improve or correct the problems. This, of course, will require those saying there are problems to specifically identify the problems they refer to. [[User:Operator873|Operator873]] ([[User talk:Operator873|talk]]) 19:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose-ish''' — I like having a simple version of articles available for when I don't understand the normal one. I don't normally read it, but when I have needed it it has been helpful to me. Changing it to a tab of EnWP could work (since I'm just a reader, not an editor there, I don't really care one way or the other regarding where the content is, as long as I can read it when I want it). [[User:Goldenshimmer|Goldenshimmer]] ([[User talk:Goldenshimmer|talk]]) 20:07, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support closure''' No obvious supporting evidence of significant historical development, no likelihood of future development, project is a liability of lower quality information due to lack of critical mass of participants and engagement, failure to establish consensus for what "Simple English" manual of style the project will use among various competing off-wiki standards, highly defensive community culture which keeps the project inaccessible for editors as a way to protect the project (for example, no WikiProjects or community meeting spaces allowed), high likelihood of dissatisfaction among participants, low recruitment rate of new regular editors, no plan for change in the foreseeable future. We do have prospect of reform for a next generation project and that is the use of Wikidata to automatically translate structured data basics into simple Wikipedias of all languages. I would advise anyone who wants to advance the future of plain language Wikimedia projects to engage with Wikidata as the most stable, highest impact use of time and labor. Wikidata has a high satisfaction rate among participants. The Reasonator Wikidata / Wikipedia prototype is very encouraging as a Simple English Wikipedia replacement. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 20:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::To address your arguments: A lack of many editors is not a reason to close a Wikipedia. There are not multiple competing off-wiki standards as to the quality of content, as you imply. Your assertion that WikiProjects and community meeting spaces are not allowed is simply false. Although WikiProjects are very rarely in project namespace, there are many in userspace, and we also have [[:simple:WP:ST]] for community discussions. I don't see what you mean by "high likelihood of dissatisfaction among participants." You don't have much of an editing history there, so have you conducted a poll or some other sort of means by which to find that information? Regarding a plan for change in the forseeable future, the viewership of the SEW has continually been increasing over the years (significant historical development), we have recently been gaining more active editors, and although we aren't planning any drastic changes, there are none required. The usual policy/guideline discussions happen, and your description implies that the Simple English Wikipedia is a small, inactive wiki with a few sad editors. The rest of your comment seems like an advertisement for machine translation, and that's a whole 'nother discussion. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:36, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Vermont}} This is not the place or an appropriate channel to go through all of this but I stand by what I said. If you want to talk then we can video or voice chat and take notes or record.
:::Most of my conversation has been off-simple in the context of other projects, including [[:en:Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Translation_task_force]], [[Internet-in-a-Box]], [[Wikipedia:Education program]] and various discussions about writing styles. All of these projects need plain English content but Simple English Wikipedia is unable to meet any of the needs of these programs. Yes, I have had 1:1 conversations with at least 100 people about plain language solutions for Wikimedia projects, and yes, I know that Simple English Wikipedia is not meeting the needs of users in this space.
:::About WikiProjects - can you [[:en:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject|resolve this issue]] for me and let people make WikiProjects or community project pages? Every other Wikimedia project allows community project pages. Simple English Wikipedia prohibits community organizing. This is so strange! Simple English Wikipedia turns away so many potential collaborations! Why do you turn people away? Can you flip the switch and allow community projects?
:::The community of people developing Simple English Wikipedia content is greater and more active off-Simple English Wikipedia than on Simple English Wikipedia. Yes, there could be a debate about whether structured data is the future, but there can be no debate about the number of people and amount of resources advancing that idea versus human-written Simple Wikipedia text. Much, much more attention and effort to produce a Simple English Wikipedia is going in directions other than to Simple English Wikipedia as it exists now. I know lots of people who have had conflicts with Simple English Wikipedia, but I am not aware of anyone from Simple English Wikipedia bringing value to any plain language project elsewhere. Please get anyone from Simple English Wikipedia to help these other projects or be more inviting of collaboration.
:::Yes, there are multiple competing standards of manuals of style. Various university programs [http://www.healthresearchforaction.org/health-literacy-communications like this one at Berkeley] do things like plain language translations, develop standardized vocabularies for technical jargon, present limited vocabulary lists, and offer algorithms for readability metrics. There is not a standard in Simple English Wikipedia. Someone could use one plain language manual of style and it be very simple, and another person could use another and it be too complicated. Simple English Wikipedia does not host conversations to resolve this. I would not mind a debate but it is not asking too much to set some minimal expectations of what is and is not appropriate. It really hurts to submit something and get rejected due to an individual asserting a personal preference when Simple English Wikipedia has no manual of style. Matching with a single academic definition of "Simple English" could resolve this, but instead, anything goes and there is too much arbitrary rejection.
:::Simple English Wikipedia is a liability with serious problems. If it is not closed it needs serious urgent reform and strong leadership. The WMF has money. If anyone in Simple can get organized or get an institutional partner they should apply for a US$100k grant ASAP because the volunteer only unfunded administration is not working. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 14:20, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
::::I'm sorry, when you said "manual of style" I thought you meant [[:simple:Wikipedia:Manual of Style]]. What you apparently mean is the language, which is defined quite well at [[:simple:WP:HOW]], of which there is strong consensus over. Despite what one may think when reading your argument, people are not coming on top of eachother quoting from different plain English translations. It's pretty well-established. Now, onto the misconception of WikiProjects. We do have editors collaborating and communicating. Your claim that "Simple English Wikipedia prohibits community organizing" is blatantly false. We have [[:simple:WP:ST]], which is our version of the Village Pump, where editors can discuss topics. We ''do'' have WikiProjects, except they are located in userspace rather than project-space. Because of there only being around 30 active editors, large-scale WikiProjects in project space are unnecessary. For example, I had my own WikiProject that gathered 12 volunteers, where we did edit categorizing to help enable ORES on the Simple English Wikipedia. The goal was reached, ORES is now enabled, and the WikiProject shutdown. When I made that project, I was new (about a week at SEW) and was still highly active on en.wiki. There is no anti-change group of people deciding what happens, nor are new editors being turned away. If we did allow people to create WikiProjects directly to Wikipedia: namespace, it's not as though dozens of new editors would magically spring up. Also, you said that both "The community of people developing Simple English Wikipedia content is greater and more active off-Simple English Wikipedia than on Simple English Wikipedia" as well as "Much, much more attention and effort to produce a Simple English Wikipedia is going in directions other than to Simple English Wikipedia as it exists now. I know lots of people who have had conflicts with Simple English Wikipedia, but I am not aware of anyone from Simple English Wikipedia bringing value to any plain language project elsewhere." To me, this sounds contradictory, so I ask you to clarify this. I also ask you how you can be sure of: "I know that Simple English Wikipedia is not meeting the needs of users in this space." If this were so, would viewship not decline? It's been steadily increasing for the last few years. Also, regarding the last bit of your message, how do you think the WMF's money or a grant could help reform the SEW? I strongly support reforms, although my ideal is more of a multiple-month-long copyediting/simplification drive. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 17:21, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Vermont}} Thanks for continuing the conversation. I will start with the money issue. Historically Wikimedia projects have operated in money scarcity, and the rule was that anything could happen so long as no money entered play. Nowadays money is not scarce, and the WMF and community are eager to trade money for more quality, participants, and better user experience.
:::::I am mixing fact with opinion in what I say. If I made a wish with money, then it would be for someone to be funded to organize some necessary community conversations, do a survey, and post some results. Although volunteers can do this sometime, SEW does not have the labor pool or participant base to do this. I appreciate the regular volunteers at the project but considering the size of the audience their 30 opinions and views are marginal. Plain language Wikimedia content is a really big deal for millions of people.
:::::I insist on WikiProjects because other Wikimedia projects have them. I do not accept that the prohibition on WikiProjects is thoughtful and SEW adopts other strange rules which have to do with its small user base trying to prohibit the influx of new users who might upset the local order. I do not agree that SEW should be able to make local rules that do not align with other Wikimedia projects. The lack of WikiProjects is a barrier to me and to a demographic of users.
:::::I can recognize that SEW has a manual of style but I disagree that it is coherent. The obvious thing to do would be for SEW to adopt an academic and well-defined existing manual of style. If professionals, academics, and people who go to Simple English trade conferences have established norms and processes, then SEW should follow that precedent until and unless there is a good reason to not do this. It is problematic when a professional writer trained to use simple English comes to Simple English Wikipedia and finds that there is another manual of style there. This needs a conversation with a mediator and if no volunteer can commit the probably 100+ hours to coordinate the right discussion then getting a paid administrator to do this is urgent. There are other conversations to have too.
:::::I acknowledge increased reader demand but I do not recognize that as a show of support for SEW as it exists now. The demand would remain even after a reform. The most obvious upcoming reform will be inclusion of infoboxes from Wikidata. Simple English infoboxes are the precursor to Simple (every language) infoboxes, and it is also urgent to have simple versions of every language. Right now the politics of SEW might be a barrier to delivering simple content in other languages.
:::::I said that demand for simple wiki content is increasing. Lots of people ask for it. For example, [http://www.nfais.org/index.php?option=com_mc&view=mc&mcid=72&eventId=546756 this talk next week] will have a physician talking about it. The problem is that SEW uses a style which is unlike the professional and academic standard of simple English. Without a reconciliation this simple content will get developed elsewhere, like in subpages of English Wikipedia, through Wikidata, or off wiki. I want a Simple English Wikipedia; I just want it to be friendlier and more aligned with the off-wiki professional expectations of Simple English and to collaborate with other Wikimedia projects. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 18:34, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
{{od}}
I agree with you that it would be beneficial to more clearly define the Manual of Style, but I must assert that your conception of how WikiProjects operate on SEW is incorrect. There is no ban on WikiProjects or user collaboration, nor is there a volunteer culture on SEW that acts that way. See the [[:simple:Wikipedia:WikiProject#Current WikiProjects|list of WikiProjects]]. I also disagree strongly that there are rules "trying to prohibit the influx of new users who might upset the local order." If you perceive this, what rules do you refer to? [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 19:08, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|Vermont}} If I move [[:simple:User:Bluerasberry/WikiProject Medicine]] to [[:simple:Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine]] then will you give your support for that and for anyone else to start any WikiProject in the way that other Wikimedia projects allow WikiProjects? If at least you got good support for WikiProjects to be community projects rather than user projects then I would change my opposition here. I see Simple English Wikipedia as a bleak project without a change to begin inviting more community organization and collaboration. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 14:24, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Lean oppose''' I feel arguments for closing could be applied to the other wikis patrolled by [[Small Wiki Monitoring Team]]. I could be convinced to support the closure if there were more argument about why the reasons for closure are unique to the simple English wikipedia. [[User:Billhpike|Billhpike]] ([[User talk:Billhpike|talk]]) 20:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**Sure: Simple English is not an actual language, and we already have a Wikipedia in English that doesn’t have any of these problems. It provides no actual value while consuming significant global resources. This is different from other small projects where they are the only Wikipedias in their language. Simple is a fine concept that doesn’t work. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 21:01, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*** How much administrative work on SEW is done by editor's who primarily contribute to another wiki? I looked at [[simple:Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser]] and it appears that most issues were handled by local check users / admins. Some of the replies were less then timely, but SEW is hardly the only wiki with a CU backlog. [[User:Billhpike|Billhpike]] ([[User talk:Billhpike|talk]]) 22:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
***How do you define ''language''? - There is a Wikipedia in Afrikans, which can also be seen a version of Dutch...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 21:42, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
****It's not supposed to be ''a language''. See [[simple:Simple_English_Wikipedia]].[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 22:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' — Just two days ago I wrote, not knowing of this proposal, that simple-English Wikipedia is neither read, edited, updated nor even serves the purpose that it intends to [[:en:Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles#Digression:_simple.wikipedia.org]]. The lack of editors and lack of community, as well as lack of interested readership causes its articles to be out of date, and in many cases of very poor quality. Neither does it adequately serve the purpose it intends to serve, with articles only marginally more readable, and oftentimes less readable than leads on en-wiki.
:''simple-wiki risks acting as an excuse to deprioritize clarity and unambiguous expression on en-wiki'', which may seem unintuitive, but is a defence I've come across far too many times. '''Closing simple-wiki could bring editors versed in writing simply back to en-wiki, and would send a clear signal that Wikipedia is for everyone''', not just those who can read at a post-graduate level.
:We need simple writing, and that is why we don't need simple-wiki. Wikipedia's articles vary, some more amenable to simple language, but all can benefit from the work of editors who can express themselves tersely. '''Even very complex topics need well written and easy to understand introductions.''' [[User:CFCF|Carl Fredrik]][[User talk:CFCF| 💌]] [[Special:EmailUser/CFCF|📧]] 22:04, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::If closed, the amount of editors it would bring to en-wiki is insignificant, if any. As you said, there is a very small editing force, and thus articles, especially in constantly updating fields like medicine, are not always up to date. But, outdatedness is not a reason to close a project; if it were, the majority of small wikis would have reason to be closed. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::While the number of editors that move may be low, it will act as a strong indication that writing simply is important — and that even editing with the sole intention to simplify difficult language on en-wiki — is not only acceptable, but highly desirable. I think you underestimate the amount of good you could do in a WikiProject Simple English. [[User:CFCF|CFCF]][[User talk:CFCF| 💌]] [[Special:EmailUser/CFCF|📧]] 22:26, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Is your idea to make a simple namespace on enwiki? If not, how would you integrate the content, if at all? Thanks, [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:37, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Seems harmless. I don't think that closing Simple would automatically mean that its contributors would take up some other Wikimedia project. Some might leave the project altogether, including some who currently work on multiple projects. I would think, perhaps, that a reasonable alternative would be to limit the ''coverage'' of the project to, say, a hundred-thousand vital topics in clearly defined areas, to avoid spamming of a less patrolled project. [[User:BD2412|''BD2412'']] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 22:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. It's #51 on the list of Wikipedias. Are we also shutting down the smaller ones? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 22:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Closure and integration are two different things. The proposal is not well-developed. We have other considerations such as the mobile view and wikidata. Integration of these linked projects might be sensible but there is not a good structure for this currently. In the current chaotic way of doing things, competition is healthy in providing alternative approaches. [[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew D.]] ([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 22:32, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per TonyBallioni and CFCF '''--'''[[User:علاء |Alaa ]] [[User_talk:علاء |:)..!]] 22:33, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support in principle.''' At the current point Simple English Wikipedia simply does not fit in the grand scheme of things: it is not a separate language, it was a good idea some years ago to have such project that would have articles that are easier to understand for people, but right now it is the only exception among more than 300 language versions that we have. Simple X projects get frequently rejected, Simple English projects (there’s also Wiktionary, btw) sits there alone in a complete limbo. Don’t think we should completely delete it or disband the active community, but the opposite, if that is applicable: narrow down its idea to something like [[Wikikids]], which is already being developed in some languages and even [[:eu:Txikipedia:Azala|functions as a sub-project of Basque Wikipedia]], reformat the project, make it Wikimedia-level initiative and allow the communities to grow under a new brand and under Wikimedia movement’s umbrella. Then it wouldn’t be sticking out like a sore thumb, but rather would allow us to do something bigger on the basis of established project. (I don’t know how well other language versions of such project would do, I just think that it is very hypocritical to keep Simple English Wikipedia and force other projects to do workarounds if they want to work on something similar on their own.) [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 22:44, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
** To add in response to some points above: the place in list of Wikipedias shouldn’t mean anything, because other wikis, even if they are the smallest of them all, still represent a corpus in respective languages. Simplewiki is the only project that does not, so it is not correct to compare it with ''language'' editions in any way. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 22:53, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Strong Oppose''' Simple is useful to new english speakers, such as people who have never spoken english before. I agree that it needs some work - but it is not enough to warrent closing it. '''[[User:Xenrose|Xenrøse]]''' • '''[[User talk:Xenrose|T]]''' 22:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per TonyBallioni and CFCF .Simple English is not a separate language further it is not clear or there is no evidence how Simple English Wikipedia helps starters or that it has a separate audience or that new English speakers benefit from it there are thousands of articles in English Wikipedia which use simpler English than Simple Wikipedia or what is the benefit of having a separate Wikipedia that English Wikipedia does not cover.[[User:Pharaoh of the Wizards|Pharaoh of the Wizards]] ([[User talk:Pharaoh of the Wizards|talk]]) 23:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Rather than using the ambiguous "thousands", could you provide examples? From my experience, the English Wikipedia is almost always significantly more complex than it's SEW counterpart-article, and when it isn't they're of equal simplicity. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 23:43, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support closure''' per TonyBallioni. From admittedly brief research it seems that Simple acts more as a playground for LTA users and sockmasters ([https://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:LovelyGirl7&action=history At least one of which immediately identified themselves as such...?]) rather than a useful project. As has been stated, this is nothing to do with closing down small language wikis, as simple English isn't a discrete language. [[User:Firefly|ƒirefly]] ( [[User talk:Firefly|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Firefly|c]] · [[en:User:Firefly/who|who?]] ) 23:19, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Many LTA's edit on the Simple English Wikipedia after their socks had been blocked on the English Wikipedia. With the specific example of LovelyGirl7, see [[:simple:User:Vermont/Reports/LovelyGirl7]]. A lot of my work (which I would be doing even if SEW didn't exist) is anti-LTA. It's not as large of an issue as many make it out to be. Most are blocked within an hour of their first edit, and with few exceptions, their edits are not left for any period of time. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 23:37, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' basically per TonyBallioni, Ivanvector and CFCF. It would be better to dedicate the effort to making enwiki more accessible, or other language versions more complete than continue with what amounts to a poorly-defined content fork, which is frequently used as the playground of LTAs. [[User:Stwalkerster|stwalkerster]] ([[User talk:Stwalkerster|talk]]) 23:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per Vermont and Eptalon. [[User:Jared837|Jared837]] ([[User talk:Jared837|talk]]) 00:00, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Weak oppose''': I think ideas of integration with enwp are interesting, and were something concrete suggested I might agree with it (e.g. having another tab at the top of the browser view so it reads "Article | Simplified article | Talk"). But I don't think shutting down the project would be helpful, particularly without any specific plans of what to do with the content. Also, volunteers can work on whatever they want, and all who edit Simple are choosing to do so (though I concede perhaps a few are misguided in their thoughts of how helpful their edits to Simple are). {{pb}} I'm slightly in two minds because from what I've seen, the Simple English Wikipedia is not of particularly consistent quality and doesn't always have great prose. Then again, I'm not the target audience. As for how well-known a thing it is, I think it's fairly obscure but I've had the (''very'') occasional article pop up in the first few Google results for a term, and I once overheard someone in high school telling their friend that if they clicked the "Simple English" link in the sidebar, it would "simplify the article". — [[User:Bilorv|Bilorv]] ([[User talk:Bilorv|talk]]) 00:46, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The opening premise of the proposal that "it is doubtful it is used by anyone" can be debunked pretty quickly. It's had more than [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&start=2015-07&end=2018-05&sites=simple.wikipedia.org 15 million readers per month since September 2017] and the number of page views has been increasing steadily since 2015. I'm surprised it's that high, but evidently people are finding it somehow. Maybe it would be worth surveying the ''readers'' about whether their needs are being served by simple Wikipedia before we consider closing it. [[User:Richard Nevell|Richard Nevell]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell|talk]]) 01:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' unless there is a a clear, well-defined and realistic plan of including the "new tab or button" as mentioned. Also disagree that it is merely a playground for vandals, since there is an [[simple:User:ChenzwBot|anti-vandal bot]], [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T182012 ORES support] and fairly active admins for a wiki of its size. [[User:Darylgolden|Darylgolden]] ([[User talk:Darylgolden|talk]]) 01:48, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Is this Wiki taking up too much bandwidth or something? I also want to mention that this has already been nominated twice for deletion in the past. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 02:37, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per Piotrus, TonyBallioni, Ivanvector, and CFCF. [[User:Double sharp|Double sharp]] ([[User talk:Double sharp|talk]]) 04:15, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per the rather thorough opposing arguments listed above. Any of the issues raised by the opposing arguments above can be solved without closing the project. If a merge does happen though, a separate <code>Simple:</code> namespace should probably be the method of consolidating the content. — AfroThundr ([[User:AfroThundr3007730|u]] · [[User talk:AfroThundr3007730|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/AfroThundr3007730|c]]) 05:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. Simple.wp is not achieving its mission. If you pick random articles from that site and run them through readability tests, they generally fail for the target audience level, most of them are woefully inadequate, are outdated in the cases where currency of the information is an issue, and many are full of unsourced and even patently false (i.e. vandalism) claims. The site is disused by readers, and has too small an editorial base to ensure even basic accuracy and other quality measures. It would make more sense for some combination of various forms of [[w:en:Simple English|Simple English]] to be integrated into en.WP itself, perhaps as a sidebar option. The large editorial base at the main English Wikipedia is in a much better position to create and maintain "translations" of full-English articles into a simplified form of the language. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 06:31, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*:Last month the site received [https://stats.wikimedia.org/v2/#/simple.wikipedia.org 18 million views from 7.8 million unique devices]. How do you define 'disuse by readers'? [[User:Richard Nevell|Richard Nevell]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell|talk]]) 07:32, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose closure''' there are active editors and readers on this wikipedia, so I see no reason to close. A different amount of completeness to the EN WP is no reason to close. Unless there are severe widespread systemic problems, which I haven't read from above, this decision should be determined by editors from within said wikipedia, not canvassed editors from the EN WP. --[[User:Tom (LT)|LT910001]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 10:00, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong Oppose''' Used it plenty in my younger years and it definitely has its place. Very useful when new English speakers don't understand the en-wp article, they can simply hop over to simple. --[[User:Treetear|Treetear]] ([[User talk:Treetear|talk]]) 14:47, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' As what Piotrus, TonyBallioni, Ivanvector, and CFCF said. [[User:TomasTomasTomas|TomasTomasTomas]] ([[User talk:TomasTomasTomas|talk]]) 15:41, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' There is no good reason for closing a wiki that is still working towards its goals. It is unfair to compare it directly with English Wikipedia when really its equivalent would be more like 2006 English Wikipedia. The progress of simple is a lot slower than English because it has 30 regular editors at best vs. 10s of thousands on the other. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 16:54, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' It doesn't seem to me as if closing it will solve any problem, and I'm also concerned about procedure - we're discussing shutting down a wiki other than the one we contribute to. I don't see any compelling reason to close here. [[User:SportingFlyer|SportingFlyer]] ([[User talk:SportingFlyer|talk]]) 17:50, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Simple.wiki has problems - I think everyone can agree on that - but I don't believe it's problems have risen to the point where closing the project would be a net positive to Wikimedia as a whole. Perhaps this proposal will serve as a call to Simple.wiki that change needs to happen, and I hope that the wider Wikimedia community can pull together to help support Simple fix its problems. - [[User:There'sNoTime|TNT]][[User talk:There'sNoTime|❤]] 17:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' This is simply a solution looking for a problem. The arguments for support are unconvincing, especially [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]]'s claim that simple is just a breeding ground for LTAs. Shutting that down won't stop them, they'll just move to some other small wiki and set up show there. Hell, even the test wikis can be the same breeding grounds. Arguments of little readership are also unconvincing. Views aren't everything, but views by unique devices is something different, and that number is also fairly high. The only argument the convinces me a little is the fact that the community there is out-manned and quality is suffering, but the same could be said for roughly 600 other WMF projects. Are we to close those down too?—[[:en:User:Cyberpower678|'''CYBERPOWER''']] ([[:en:User talk:Cyberpower678|Chat]]) 17:59, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
**Yes, but it also literally has NO positive characteristics at all and actively harms it’s readers by diverting them in wikis where the information is better conveyed in their own language. It’s the epitome of Anglophone arrogance to assume that people would rather read substandard English than their own language. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:19, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
***I wouldn't say no positive characteristics. What English has over all other languages is that it's the universal language when communicating internationally, especially true among airline pilots. People who are trying to learn that language tend to try and learn the simple stuff in a language first, and then move on to the more complex stuff. Simplewiki can be used as a stepping stone in such instances.—[[:en:User:Cyberpower678|'''CYBERPOWER''']] ([[:en:User talk:Cyberpower678|Chat]]) 18:24, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
****I still think this is an exceptionally arrogant way to view it, and also think that isn’t the purpose of an encyclopedia. There are many better ESL resources out there and I see no value at all in the project and active harm coming from it in multiple ways. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:28, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*****Aside from the LTAs, can you give specifics as to how this is harmful?—[[:en:User:Cyberpower678|'''CYBERPOWER''']] ([[:en:User talk:Cyberpower678|Chat]]) 18:30, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*****Tony, we're not suggesting that people should learn English from SEW, or that they should abandon their native language wikis for SEW. We're just supporting that a Wikipedia using simpler English is beneficial and useful to many. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:36, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
****Not only is it used as a stepping stone, but for many smaller language wiki's the Simple English article is simply bigger and more detailed. And for those who don't have a firm grasp on English easier to read then a complex one. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 18:32, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
******By not directing people to projects that would better serve their needs and giving them a poorly done knock-off of en.wiki. No one wants to read non-standard English. Readers aren’t served by this project and people who need information are done a disservice. Simple only exists for people from other Wikipedia projects to mess around with. If we’re fine with it, let’s just say that, not pretend it actually helps readers. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:36, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*****{{od}} Do you know where most of those people who "mess" with the Simple English Wikipedia come from, Tony? EN. When they're indefinitely banned. We get seen as a dumping ground for all the trash that doesn't fit into the complicated version of Wikipedia, i.e, en.wiki. It would serve us all a hell of a lot better if communication between the two was such that when problems occurred with users there, we would get to know about them and be ready. But the attitude of EN's editors has always been that we're a second class, second rate service which doesn't do what it set out to do. Merging the Simple English Wiki into en.wp will not work - period. A better way would be to teach all of the English Wikipedia editors to write so that EVERYBODY can understand their articles, not just the proportion who are either native speakers or have English degrees to back them up. [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 16:26, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{o}} closing it, this is useful to people who not have learned regular english and need to learn better, but the wiki is small and maybe also be closed.[[Special:Contributions/46.227.72.88|46.227.72.88]] 18:14, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{Oppose}} Just because there are problems, that does not mean that a simple closure is the solution. Instead of saying that there are problems and wanting to close a project which works for many users, why not instead focus on addressing these problems? You say that no one knows about Simple Wikipedia, well maybe we should focus on informing people. Or there are mentions of LTAs; other measures can be taken in order to fix this. Simple Wikipedia has worked for many people for years, and there are still many volunteers willing to keep the project running, so I don't see any good reason for a closure. Also, why close this wiki when there are many more way smaller wikis, struggling with the same issues? Another question: what would we achieve with the closure of Simple? I don't think diverting editors to Enwiki would work, since usually people who edit on Simple choose to, in order to help users who do not know such well English, or maybe because the editors themselves don't. [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 19:45, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Think there could be more effective ways, in terms of time and resources, to help the target audience of SEW than what the project is doing now. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 20:04, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Lean towards opposition to closing''' of the Simple English Wikipedia. The Simple English Wikipedia has its place as an accessible encyclopedia for children or for people who do not speak English as a first language. [[User:Vorbee|Vorbee]] ([[User talk:Vorbee|talk]]) 20:36, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Weak oppose''' - many arguments for closing it are valid, but I am afraid that saying "we should close it because it's constantly getting vandalised or spammed" is basically giving the vandals a sweet victory. They were trying to destroy the project for long time and now you let them have it? If anything - project being vandalised should never be a valid reason to close it. On other side it's true that this project is probably not very useful for target audience. But - it still is useful for the community. Many administrators of English wikipedia start as admins on simple wikipedia, where they learn to use the tools properly and prove they can be trusted with them. Sometimes you can even see in RfA on enwiki that users who aren't getting support are told to try to apply on simplewiki first to get more reputation and skills. Because the community is so small, it's way less conservative than enwiki, so deployment of new software features is much easier on simple wiki. I know it sounds like it's a sandbox for English Wikipedia, but keep in mind that wikipedia started just as sandbox for nupedia as well, and look what it became ;) simplewiki is maybe not useful for target audience right now, but it cost basically no money to operate it, its small community enjoy to maintain it, and devs like to use it as a sandbox for actual wikipedia. So I definitely can't agree that it's not useful at all, or that it's "too much effort to maintain it". There are volunteers who enjoy maintaining it. [[User:Petrb|Petrb]] ([[User talk:Petrb|talk]]) 21:40, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. I don't personally think simple is good for much, but the arguments that it's actually harmful are just not convincing. Let people who find it valuable put their work where they choose. If some of them are people who would be banned from en.wiki, well, who cares? I might feel differently depending on how much of a resource drain it is, but if it's a resource drain, let the Foundation tell us that. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 21:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''based on LTA abuse. With recent experience of LTA abuse, I can say we can manage LTAs case by case. A fast block (duck) is enough to contain the harm. '''No opinions''' on other issues.--[[User:Cohaf|Cohaf]] ([[User talk:Cohaf|talk]]) 22:22, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' unless there are concrete and realistic plans for a merger of ENWP and SEWP rather than wafer-thin suggestions. Lest we have forgotten, we are talking about volunteers, not paid staff. If someone wants to contribute to SEWP, that is their choice. As far as I know, there are no paid WMF staff toiling on SEWP, so I don’t see an argument for trying to push those volunteers to working on ENWP. I have done a couple of thousand edits on SEWP, and I can see the advantage of simpler articles. The failure was ENWP not adopting the idea of all article ledes being written in Simple English back in 2000-whatever. SEWP is not a perfect wiki but then again neither is any other wiki. There are more pressing Wikimedia-wide problems such as the burgeoning non-free content on dozens of wikis, many without adequate administrative oversight, which could be solved by creating a second image repository to complement Commons. Let’s support smaller wikis rather than reinforcing the ENWP stranglehold on Wikimedia by closing them. I was once a staunch English Wikipedian with a quite centralizing view i.e. pretty much every wiki could be recreated as namespace or a tab in ENWP. However, I have moved towards becoming a Wikimedian, with significant contributions to at least six wikis and I would urge more Wikipedians to do the same. [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] ([[User talk:Green Giant|talk]]) 22:32, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. "Simple.wiki doesn't show up in Google results"? Sometimes, it's ranked higher than the normal English Wikipedia (in most of these cases, both are on page 1 of the results). [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 22:53, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
**{{ping|Lojbanist}} Could you show an example of that? --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 08:33, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I went through clicking "Show any page" and found that about 1/3 to 1/4 of articles show up on the first page of Google, although I could not find any that were above enwiki. I then checked a few simplewiki Very Good Articles, and although they came right next to enwiki, it was always second. I can provide images if needed, and I conducted these tests using a web browser I had never opened before. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 12:16, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Enough people find Simple useful to justify keeping it open. [[User:SilkTork|SilkTork]] ([[User talk:SilkTork|talk]]) 00:13, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::The most viewed article on Simple gets [https://tools.wmflabs.org/topviews/?project=simple.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&date=last-month&excludes= 287,412 monthly views]. There are 5,669,952 articles on Wikipedia. [https://tools.wmflabs.org/topviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&date=last-month&excludes= 5,668,995 of those articles] get less monthly views than the top Simple article. And while we are on stats, there are [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Backlog over 500,000 articles on Wikipedia that need references, including over 45,000 BLPs]. No Wiki project is perfect. [[User:SilkTork|SilkTork]] ([[User talk:SilkTork|talk]]) 00:56, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Slow-moving as a project perhaps, but not useless. [[User:Lusotitan|Lusotitan]] ([[User talk:Lusotitan|talk]]) 23:36, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support closure''' I knew little about Simple English Wikipedia (SEW) until this discussion, so came into this survey with an open mind. I have to say that, on balance, the argument is leaning towards closure of SEW. I had a look at the SEW articles and concluded that it is not fit for purpose. There is no clear definition of what "simple English" is being used, or anything like the same kind of checks and balances on article quality from the few editors who work over there. It seems to be a clear case of a good idea *at the time* turning into something of a relic, more Wikia than Wikipedia. If Wikipedia can allow for Serbian's version to have both Roman and Cyrillic versions on the same article with different tabs, perhaps Simple English could be similarly "merged" into en.wiki? [[User:Doktorbuk|Doktorbuk]] ([[User talk:Doktorbuk|talk]]) 09:43, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{o}} To act in good faith, if we want to integrate the Simple editors we should pursue that before any talk of closing their wiki. As an engineer, I also want to point out that we're already at a point where we could support such an initiative technologically, using Wikidata to link Simple with English content and making it more prominent to readers, and the Simple content could even be presented in a translation-like interface as a model for English editors to follow when simplifying their content. At the social level, I agree with points above that English would benefit from Simple's universality. At any rate, we would be better off reaching out to the editors as allies first, and only then taking drastic steps, that have been planned together. [[User:Adamw|Adamw]] ([[User talk:Adamw|talk]]) 11:24, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - most importantly, I don't believe that SEW is yet failing a net positive test. Secondly, we should be trying additional steps to help it before we consider throwing it out (one suggestion is below). Thirdly, I would want a detailed proposal setting out exactly what was being done with the shutting down (etc) of SEW before I could !vote support. [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) 13:07, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per TonyBallioni. For those who say "if we take down simple.wiki, why wouldn't we take down smaller wikis?", the answer is clear: '''simple English is not a language'''. [[User:L293D|L293D]] ([[User talk:L293D|talk]]) 15:15, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
**{{ping|L293D}}That might be an argument for renaming it to [[w:Basic English|Basic English]], but it isn't an argument for taking it down.[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 16:03, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
***{{ping|LeadSongDog}} basic English is still not a language. [[User:L293D|L293D]] ([[User talk:L293D|talk]]) 16:07, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Basic English is not a language in the sense that it doesn't have an ISO language code, and is based off another language, but it is in the sense that it has it's own set of words (less than English) and some variations in grammar. Either way, SEW isn't strictly Basic English. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 16:08, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::::*{{ping|L293D|LeadSongDog|Vermont}} This is what I've found on Phabricator about renaming regarding this Wikipedia: [[phab:T110190|T110190 Rename "simple" wikis to "en-simple"]]. --[[User:Liuxinyu970226|Liuxinyu970226]] ([[User talk:Liuxinyu970226|talk]]) 22:17, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
**Is being a language that important here? what about those users/readers who are not native english speakers and lack excellent english? I am not native english speaker and if my homewiki lacks any article (though it is a language), then English wiki is not that useful either. Though it has rich and updated content it hard to understand things that are written there. One tab for searching meanings and one for reading article, so instead of going to all that trouble people will start searching elsewhere.(This is based on my observation, since I am from a country where many people understand only basic english) So though it is not an actual language it can be very useful to people. All it needs is more visibility and there are other ways to do that.-[[User:BRPever|BRP]]'''[[User talk:BRPever|'' ever'']]''' 16:11, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*** Yes, the general rule is to have a language or set of languages to have a project. It is very hard to justify Simple English Wikipedia being run from this point, even if it is ‘grandfathered’ as people say, but that is, in my opinion, a bad attitude: it shows, as a Russian phrase goes, that ‘who made it in time, ate it’ and that is not a healthy attitude to have. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 17:01, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong Support'''. Close it, then burn it to ashes, and then burn the ashes. I mostly focus on mathematics articles on the main English Wikipedia, so I took a quick look at a few high-profile articles here, and the overall state was utterly pitiful. Forget any problems with vandals or LTAs; this is just a low-quality project (and not just in math). I'm sorry for those who've spent time volunteering here, but this place shouldn't exist. I think the overall concept is fundamentally flawed. Who decides what's too linguistically complex? And frankly, I'd rather see people that struggle a bit with English led to a better article that they have a bit harder time understanding than to a low-quality one that they handle more easily. [[User:Deacon Vorbis|Deacon Vorbis]] ([[User talk:Deacon Vorbis|talk]]) 16:19, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*:So you are saying that so many years of work by volunteers should just be "burned to ashes"? I think it should be extremely unfair to the volunteers and people who have worked on Simple Wiki for many years for their work to be deleted, archived or forgotten. There are many articles on Simple Wiki, and people have put in time for them. As to your argument that you'd like people that struggle to go to English Wiki, that should be their choice to make, if they prefer Simple Wiki over English, why should they not use it? [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 16:45, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*::I was being a bit hyperbolic, quoting [[en:Fahrenheit 451|Fahrenheit 451]], but essentially yes. Leaving it frozen as an archive might be okay in case there's any information that anyone specifically wants to salvage. As for the time that people have put into the project, I certainly feel for them, but I think you're committing a version of the [[en:sunk cost fallacy|sunk cost fallacy]]. Why should more resources be wasted on something that's ultimately not worth it? [[User:Deacon Vorbis|Deacon Vorbis]] ([[User talk:Deacon Vorbis|talk]]) 17:27, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*:It’s a lot more than “struggle a bit” with a complex English article. See BRPever’s comment immediately above yours. As you are a native speaker of English, you (and I, for that matter) are unable to recognize the helpfulness of a Simple English Wikipedia for those who only know basic English. Also, could I ask what you mean by “low-quality project”? I think this misconception of yours may stem from the odd phrasing and use of words, as you are an editor in perhaps one of the most complex areas of the English Wikipedia. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 16:50, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - I rarely visit it but I actually just checked it for something the other day; It is not a resource I would like to see brought to an end. — [[User:Godsy|Godsy]] ([[User talk:Godsy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Godsy|contribs]]) 20:56, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' no, it doesn't have anything like the number of viewers of the English Wikipedia, but that means absolutely nothing - few projects do. It has an active community and plenty of useful content. I wouldn't be opposed to integrating it into the English Wikipedia somehow but that shouldn't be done by closing it. '''''[[User:Hut 8.5|Hut 8.5]]''''' 21:34, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' "If the project was used by ESLs, who outnumber native speakers by ~10x or so, those numbers would be widely different. But they are not." I am not a native English speaker either, but I have been using English as a secondary language since I was in elementary school, and have earned a couple of certificates on fluency. I never found the Simple English project either useful to read, or particularly interesting to edit. Both of my adult nieces visit English Wikipedia for information, though neither was ever an editor. My 8 or 9-year old grand-niece (I forgot her date of birth) is currently starting with her English education and with gaining computer skills, and has been advised to visit English Wikipedia. In part to start reading texts in English, and in part because it has comprehensive articles on subjects which she enjoys (such as dogs and dog breeds). I really don't get why non-native speakers should be spoken down to. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 01:00, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}} closure and merge existing content to English Wikipedia.
*: Reasons:
*:#There is already a wiki for English: English Wikipedia. "Simple English" is not a language. This does not meet the requirements §2 and §3 of the [[Language proposal policy|policy]] (wiki was created way before the current policy): ''The language must have a valid ISO 639 1–3 code'', but this uses English code because it's English and does not have an own code, and ''The language must be sufficiently unique that it could not coexist on a more general wiki. In most cases, this excludes regional dialects and different written forms of the same language'', but "Simple English" is no more than a different written form of the same language called English
*:#It has created duplication of content and splits community resources into two Wikipedias instead of collaborating in one more efficiently. This content duplication and efforts being splitted could create inconsistencies between enwp and simplewp versions of articles.
*:#Limitation in vocabulary could affect articles' accuracy in complex topics.
*:#Even if it **can** be useful to "English starters" as someone said above and a lot of native English speakers say, this has not been demonstrated. Just read proponent rationale. As an example, I am not a native English speaker and I never read simplewp, I go directly to enwp. As someone said: "there is not evidence how SEW helps starters or that it has a separate audience or that new English speakers benefit from it...".
*:#Could be developed better technical solutions to address alleged English-as-a-second-language learners' benefits such as proposed, add a tab "Simple" in English Wikipedia to offer a simplified version of the article being viewed.
*:#Keeping this "simple" thing is a violation of neutrality and could be considered a [[:w:linguistic imperialism|linguistic imperialism]]. Given that this wiki was aproved before current policy, it has gone live, but next "simple <language>" proposals were rejected because those were not real languages, just a "subset" of the referenced language. Why this project can still exists and other languages are not being allowed to have their "simple" versions? Should not have wikis for "Simple Portuguese Wikipedia" to help Portuguese as second language learners to understand more Portuguese?
*:#Could be better to offer English language learning contents to non-English Wikimedia wikis, so their readers can learn English first and then involve more with English projects? But even if that is the case, Why should I bother with learning English to access the knowledge if I can do that in my own language? Doesn't this resembles to something? Do you remember regions in where knowledge was denied to minority language speakers and because that they had to learn the dominant language if they wanted to access knoledge, losing little by little their cultural heritage? But the other side of this point is that learning new languages open new "worlds" and ways of seeing the world.
*:#As suggested above: with Wikidata structured data and [[:mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder|ArticlePlaceholder extension]] will be easier to automatically translate data into smaller Wikipedias or smaller language Wikipedias, so the argument "It is better to use Simple English Wikipedia as a source for translations to other language because standard English Wikipedia's English form of writing is too complex" will become weaker, keeping some validity in the case topic complexity "force" to use simplewp, though.
*:#Merge to enwp could help to redefine enwp MoS to promote more clarity and better written English in pages among writers, what would benefit native or non-native readers with more understandable pages, no matter if they have or have not an universitary degree.
*:Not a reason, and hence should not be taken in account as arguments:
*:#"This wiki is less active than X". Activity per se is not a valid reason to close a wiki.
*:#"Simple is useful to new english speakers, such as people who have never spoken english before". If they never spoken English before, then they could not even understand "simple English" wiki.
*:#"It is a playground for vandals, spambots, LTAs". These can be controlled by several tools, like patrol bots, blocks, FlaggedRevs, etc.
*:#"Closing it will send ESL speaker people a hostile or negative message". What message? All the world uses English Wikipedia, native and non-native English speakers. Please clarify.
*:#Said above: "The key quality of Simple English wp is to offer an easily-accessible summary of each topic, rather than the comprehensive, and sometimes dense, en-wiki articles". You should not have a Wikipedia to make abstract/stub versions of the main one.
*:#"This wiki is a waste of WMF resources". Hosting this wiki does not harm. Storage space is not a problem, and financial situation is very good.
*:#"<smaller language Wikipedia> and <even smaller language Wikipedia> has less activity/content/contributors so we should shut down the smaller ones". This is a RfC for Simple English Wikipedia, not for ''smaller languages'' Wikipedias.
*:Concerns:
*:#simplewp has a community.
*:#It has some activity, in other words, it is not inactive.
*:#Even with not many pageviews as expected, it seems to be read by some readers, and receives traffic, as some users here report.
*:--[[User:Zerabat|Zerabat]] ([[User talk:Zerabat|discusión]]) 01:53, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
*::Perhaps a few clarifications:
*::* SEWP was created before the policy you cite; therefore, you cannot reasonably apply ths policy.
*::* There are 6-7 non-extinct Sami languages, but we have ISO language codes for 11-13 of them. In total, we talk about 25k speakers, most of them old. Yet we do have a Wikipedia for the most common Sami language (covering about 17k of the 25k speakers). Given the structure of the language, it is likely, that the remaining 8k speakers will not understand the language we have the wiki for. Would I be able to start a Wiki for SJU, SJT or SJK langages?
*::*We have a wiki for Alemannic Wikipedia (ISO: GSW). There s however quite a bit of regional difference between the dialects; to the extent, that mutual understanding may suffer. There is also no agreement on orthography.There is an ISO code for Baiuvarian / Bairisch (BAR) with a Wikipedia. The difference in language to the GSW Wikpedia is marginal at best, the ortohgraphy problem, and the problem with variations will apply to a similar extent. There s one ISO Code for Gaelic (GD), how many gaelic-language Wikis do we have?
*::* There are many Creole languages, developed from Pidgins. For how many of them do we have Wikis?
*::* Problem of demostratng usefulness: Simple English is probably not very inreresting to linguists; I expect there are few scientific papers on it. As usual, the ones there are are probably not comparable. Also, given that there are probably more people who understand Simple English, should we not merge EnWP into SEWP, if a merge is to be done?
*::*You try to close SEWP because the policies/incentives to write in understandable language failed at ENWP?
*::*Implementing a technical solution to show simplified articles at EnWP on request needs work, and will cost money. This proposal was also raised because of alleged monetary concerns.
*::These are of course just observations.--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 09:36, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
*:::Let me address some of your observations: (1) If you would read more carefully my comment, you would see I already said that above. If I wasn't clear about my point, then I'll say it more clearly: if this Wikipedia would be proposed to be created today, it would not accomplish policy requirements. (2) I don't know the cases of Sami languages and then I'm not going to comment about then, otherwise I'd say something wrong. But take in account this RfC is about SEWP, not about Sami languages Wikipedias, and it's a special case because "Simple English" is not a language in is own right, it's English with a limited vocabulary. If this RfC would be about an existing language (English is a language, "SE" not), then Sami languages example could be appropriate to take in account. (3) The case of alemmanic is interesting. It's a relevant case because it may differ between regional variants/dialects as you say, making those hardly intelligible. I think it's not the same issue because SE uses mostly the same rules as English language grammar, but the only difference would be the limited vocabulary. Please tell me if I said something wrong. (4) Not the case of SE, and this is a RfC for SEWP.(5) No comments on the linguist and scientific papers. About merging into ENWP, I think it will benefit more readers, because ENWP is by far the most visited Wikipedia, and non-native speakers of English will likely go to ENWP if they want to read about their topic in English. And in the case they don't understand very well, they could go to "Simplify" tab or whatever it could be called and will get an easier version. What is this "Simple tab" different from making click in "Simple English" interwiki? It's different because a tab is more visible than an interwiki, and will be easier to maintain and keep up to date by the community. (6) I didn't say that. (7) Currently SEWP doesn't seem to cost money. Technical solutions could require money, of course, but if the operation of merging is done gradually and with help of the English language community, the cost could be mitigated. --[[User:Zerabat|Zerabat]] ([[User talk:Zerabat|discusión]]) 14:12, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*:{{od}} Ok, I'll perhaps rephprase, even though it may become technical:
*:*ISO 639 provides a set of codes, of 2-4 letters, which can identify a language.It also has rules to specify a language-variant. These are however technical codes, and they do not say anything wether two languages are related, or if speakers of one can understand the other. ISO 639 a priori also does not tell you whether the language you are talking about is a spoken language, and if there is a written form. The more common languages have shorter codes, if I remember correctly, but that is irrelevant for our purpose. The problem we now have with the languages I cited is that most of them have an oral tradition, there may be agreement on how to write something down, but not all people agree, and I would guess that you have a few competing forms. In that context, requiring an ISO code is useless, because other than telling you that the language exists, it doesn't do anything. And even so: I was able to show that there are language codes (GSW, bayuvarian, perhaps Letzeburgisch, Kölsch...) which can all be seen as regional dialects of German, or Dutch (in the case of Plattdeutsch/Niederdeutsch/NDS). This is the same for the [[:en:Sami languages]]. In addition, the parts of Europe where they are spoken are very sparsely populated, which will probably lead to more regional variation. Note that ISO decided they should be languages, and not variants of the same language. I would also guess there is little written tradition of these languages, they are mostly spoken ("use everyday") languages. So: Requiring an ISO 639 code is probably wrong here; and it also will not tell us how closely related these languages are. In the case of the Sami language, I am pretty convinced that the 7k people who don't speak Northern Sami will have a hard time understanding; but that's not the issue here.
*:*As for Alemannic, mutual inintelligibility of some dialects is mostly due to different vocabulary, and not so much different grammar.And pronounciation can of course also vary a great deal; area:I'd say about 300 by 200 km; German speaking Switzerland, southern parts of Germany, Western parts of Austria, norther parts of Italy. Bayuvarian: rest of Southern German, and Austria.
*:*Closing a Wiki that is almost in the top 50 clearly sends the wrong signal, especially since this wiki has a community, and generates half a million page views a day. Wikipedia is there for threatened/marginalized languages, such as Plattdeutsch, or Northern Sami, but SEWP is "assimilated" by EnWP, despit its having a community. As a comparison: Latin, or Alemannic have 10-20k page views/day. Another example: Kölsch (ksh), which is also a dialect of German. Still another case: Afrikans (af)/dutch(nl/dut): Practically the same language, mutually understandable, two wikis.
*:*If Wikipedia wants to be about cultural diversity, about being abole to accept smaller groups, then closing down simple will make it lose much of this image.
*:*SEWP may have problems, but these cannot be solved by absorbing it into ENWP. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 15:20, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*:* I’m sorry, but this is bogus. ISO 639 provides a useful baseline for whether the language exists and is normal to create a project about. The fact that Basic/Simple English doesn’t have an ISO 639 code does not show that ISO 639 codes are useless, it shows that Simple English Wikipedia currently exists in a limbo. The fact that smaller languages or dialects have their codes also doesn’t show anything, because they have been considered separate languages/dialects by standards and it is fine, whether or not mutual intelligibility exists or not. Closing a wiki that was created not according to the common sense, that exists simply because English community is too big to others, is more than warranted. Threatened/marginalised languages also have to have community on opening, so your point is moot. You have to reform Simple English Wikipedia or it has to stop existing, it’s that simple. Right now it is an another remnant of Anglo-centric nature of our movement. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 14:39, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
*:*:I invite you to look up the code "VIC" (ISO 639-3), which stands for "Virgin Islands Creole English". Officially it does not have the status of a language, the official langage of the territory is "English" (Sorry to be pedantic here: "American English" is not a language, but a language variant). Now ask yourself in what way this Virgin Islands Creole can be different from standard English? - The only two points I see are vocabulary, and spelling. Another example: BZJ - Kriol English, Belize. Same issues apply. Or another Example: Romania has a sizeable population of German speakers (about 30k native, about 500k as second language, of the 20m). At the moment, their dialect ("transsylvanian") is not mapped. I think if I dug a little, I would find more English or German variants in Sub-Saharian Africa, eg. in Namibia.. - in short: ISO 639 is a laudable effort, but probably unsuitable to our needs. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 16:00, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per proposers reasoning. The amount of time spent making it is not a rationale to keep. Lots of people spend lots of time doing lots of edits on this Wikipedia (the standard English one) that are routinely removed. ---[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 13:38, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strongest possible oppose''' - The Simple English Wikipedia provides an outlet for people to read articles which would otherwise be completely indecipherable to speakers of English as a foreign language. Coming from a background as a native Danish speaker (with English as a second language), I found that I was better suited to writing on the Simple English Wikipedia than on the main English one. There are articles on there which I can only imagine would bamboozle the hell out of a non-native English speaker. Closing this project would be detrimental to accessibility, unless the Main English Wikipedia were written in such a way as to make it considerably easier to understand. You shall not pass! [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 18:43, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per above. Simple English isn't a real language, the quality isn't great, and it seems to be attracting vandals. Volunteer effort is better spent elsewhere. -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 01:54, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support.''' The project's goals have failed and are unlikely to be reached. We serve readers better by focusing on one instance of the encyclopedia. [[User:Sandstein|Sandstein]] ([[User talk:Sandstein|talk]]) 07:24, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' While I think this is interesting, I think the problem is that this presumes a usage to Simple and then argues a failure based on that. We have, for example, an [[:ang.wikipedia.org|Old English wikipedia]] which has less usage (since nobody has spoken it in close to ten centuries) and while one could argue for it to be somehow interested in English (I can imagine some fun on historical pages), it seems quite silly. I think the problem is assuming that SEW exists only for EN because it also exists to allow people in smaller languages an easier description page to base their articles off. I think the goal should be how to encourage more smaller languages to use SEW rather than trying to close this project down or integrate it into the larger English one. -- [[User:Ricky81682|Ricky81682]] ([[User talk:Ricky81682|talk]]) 10:33, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong oppose'''. People are reading it and I don't think anyone can say volunteers can use their effort elsewhere because it's upto that volunteer to decide where or how they want to work. If project or it's article needs improvement, then it should be discussed in more appropriate place and better policies can be implemented. There are other ways to make simple visible but merge is not a good option.-[[User:BRPever|BRP]]'''[[User talk:BRPever|'' ever'']]''' 14:59, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - As a competent native English speaker with an advanced level of English skills, even I find Simple to be useful at times, usually when STEM-related articles are too technical or complex for a casual reader to understand. English has ''significantly'' more non-native speakers than it has native speakers, and is in fact the most commonly-spoken second language in the world. If Simple is that useful to ''me'', a fully-fluent native speaker, it sure as hell is a lot more useful to the many non-native speakers who only have a basic or moderate understanding of English or those who are still learning. I would wholly support Simple being ''integrated'' in en.wiki, but closing it outright would be more negative than leaving it open, and there doesn't seem to be any realistic path forward for integrating the content. The actual aim of this proposal is on shutting down Simple because it's "bad". On the contrary, I reject the notion that it's harmful or negative in any regard. [[User:Swarm|Swarm]] ([[User talk:Swarm|talk]]) 18:38, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{Strong support}} '''deletion''', but {{Weak oppose}} '''merge'''. Simple Wikipedia is effectively a laughingstock. It's pitifully uncomprehensive and should never have been created. But I don't want Simple Wikipedia to defile Wikipedia. The language on Simple is frankly ''too'' simple, making it a joke. Merging it to English Wikipedia won't make Simple English Wikipedia better, but instead make English Wikipedia worse.''' —''' [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] ([[User talk:Mr. Guye|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Mr. Guye|contribs]])  19:57, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
:'''Reply''' - Respectfully, Mr. Guye, I would say this to you. The whole point of the Simple English Wikipedia is that it's meant to be simple enough for people to understand without difficulty or needing minimal help from a dictionary if necessary. I'll be honest with you, I don't want the English Wikipedia to "defile" the Simple English Wikipedia. <s>Some</s> Most of their editors wouldn't know simplicity if it came up and bit them on the behind. I've seen plays by Shakespeare which are more easily understood than some of the confusing mess on there. [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 20:17, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
:{{support}} per above. --[[Special:Contributions/219.147.95.209|219.147.95.209]] 07:54, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Strongly oppose closure''' Let's improve it, not give up on it. [[User:Mock wurzel soup|Mock wurzel soup]] ([[User talk:Mock wurzel soup|talk]]) 08:47, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose closure''' tl;dr but cannot imagine an argument for closing an apparently useful project. --[[User:Itu|Itu]] ([[User talk:Itu|talk]]) 10:37, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong oppose''' improve it, not closing it. Will other smaller ones closed too? --[[User:Joergens.mi|Joergens.mi]] ([[User talk:Joergens.mi|talk]]) 10:55, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
{{Support}} I guess we don't need to English Wikipedias. {{unsigned|45.33.143.183}}

*'''Oppose closure''' I am an active editor on both English and Simple English Wikipedias. i am also a teacher of English as a second language. Many of my students report having found Simple English Wik(or, by the way, Britannica) much easier to read than English Wik. Also, some of them read SE first to get a feel for material and then go to related articles in E. Without the first, the second would have been too difficult for them. The proposal is written in an inaccurate and snarky way. Thousands of visits (e.g., Germany · 6/3/2018 - 6/23/2018 · 19,606 pageviews; Ranked 37 of the most viewed SE pages for May 2018; 15th among Wiks about Germany) is hardly at the tiny level claimed in the proposal.

What is LTA?[[User:Kdammers|Kdammers]] ([[User talk:Kdammers|talk]]) 11:28, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
:{{yo|Kdammers}} - LTA is an acronym for "Long Term Abuse" or "Long Term Abuser". It's given to accounts which have a long history of abusing Wikipedia across one or more projects. Saying that someone is an LTA usually means that they've been up to no good for quite some time. [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 16:21, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

:{{oppose}} per Ajraddatz: not a zero-sum game, and the SEW would be seen as a moderately successful project if enwiki didn't exist. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:27, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Strong oppose''' I am a (semi) active editor, but I also use simple wiki all the time when I am trying to understand more complex topics. It explains complex information easily, unlike en.wikipedia, which I find at times can be highly inaccesible (and this is coming from a native english speaker). There are much better changes you could make if you feel like simple.wikipedia isn't doing its job right now. For one thing, if you are so concerned about people who should be using it just using en.wikipedia, then wouldn't it be better for everyone if there was just a more prominent link, rather than shutting down a Wikipedia with over 130,000 articles. And in regards to the claims about LTA: yes vandalism happens, but it is almost always quickly reverted, and this is the same on all wikipedia projects. That's just my two cents on the matter, [[User:MiloDenn|MiloDenn]] ([[User talk:MiloDenn|talk]]) 16:31, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' is well used and closing a wiki due to vandalism is a terrible option as it would give victory to the vandals who would be bolstered and move to other targets. Instead, start a major crackdown on vandalism using the help of anti-vandal experts and bot-operators from the English wiki, thanks [[User:Atlantic306|Atlantic306]] ([[User talk:Atlantic306|talk]]) 19:25, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Support changing''' / '''Oppose closing''' - I'm fairly active on it and have been for the past year or 2 so I'll make my observations on it -
::My main issues I have with the site is that it's backwards compared to EN or any other project for that matter:
::*Protection is non-existent - It's used sparsely,
::*The project can occasionally be left without any active admin for a good 2-3-4 hours (how do I know ? ... Because I wanted a vandal blocked and no one was on for a good 2-3-4 hours! meaning myself and the vandal were the only person on the website)
::*Vandalism stays unless you're watching that page .... (I've removed a 2-3-4 good years worth of vandalism from a good few articles)
::*The QD (CSD) criteria over there is piss poor to say the least ("created by a sock" is apparently not a valid reason for deletion)

::In short the project is backwards in the way it's run and the way things are dealt with, Not only that but like others say no one is picking up the site and even when they do it's a vandalism cess-pit ..... Don't get me wrong I enjoy editing the site but in my eyes the cons outweigh the pros,

::At present in my eyes the project has been failing for a few years and it's only getting worse - There would need to be a lot of work done on it in terms of 'protection, blocking, csding and the way it's run' to make it a viable project - If none of those changes are made then this project doesn't have a great future, The Google Search is also another issue that would need to be addressed,

::I'm sure there are ways you could point new editors to Simple but simply put you'd need to change the project before implemeting that,

::Anyway sorry for waffling on - '''TLDR - Change it <s>or failing that close it down</s>'''. –[[User:Davey2010|'''Davey''''''2010''']][[User talk:Davey2010|'''Talk''']] 22:10, 24 June 2018 (UTC) (Updated - Support changing not closing. –[[User:Davey2010|'''Davey''''''2010''']][[User talk:Davey2010|'''Talk''']] 16:21, 25 June 2018 (UTC))
*::Vandalism is an issue on any wiki-project. If there aren't enough admins around, simple can always be added to the [[SWMT]] watchlists. In emergencies, you can always request steward help over IRC, and we can block when no local admins are around. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 00:07, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I absolutely agree it is an issue but atleast with EN and Commons there's someone there to help .... with Simple it was just me and the vandal ..... Ofcourse I don't ever expect anyone to be on 24/7 365 but one would assume there would be atleast ''one'' admin on, If memory serves me right I think I was off to bed so I believe the vandal had the website to themselves ? ... Anyway yeah I'd certainly support it being added to SWMT. –[[User:Davey2010|'''Davey''''''2010''']][[User talk:Davey2010|'''Talk''']] 01:05, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Yes, this is a problem we all might have faced, though this might not be the right place to discuss solution but we can solve this problem by increasing the participation of admins in #cvn-simplewikis. Whenever admins are around they can be alerted. After Vermont became admin I have observed that with right coordination from the users and proper use of channel the problem can be minimized. More admin participation in the channel can help to prevent this problem.-[[User:BRPever|BRP]]'''[[User talk:BRPever|'' ever'']]''' 05:15, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' I agree with [[User:Vermont]]'s point that deleting the Simple English Wikipedia would give LTA's a sense of victory due to that wiki being deleted due to being used for vandalism, so I don't think it should be deleted, or at least not just due to being used for vandalism. [[User:SemiHypercube|SemiHypercube]] ([[User talk:SemiHypercube|talk]]) 00:54, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong oppose''' to closing or diverting Simple Wikipedia. I probably still test in the 99th percentile for reading and writing comprehension and skill. I edit both on English Wikipedia and Simple. I can still write for Simple Wikipedia like a star and factually and creatively. I am still not usually reverted or have scolding messages end up on my talk page or that of the article. In fact, on English Wikipedia I am working now on an edit request for someone who is hired by a firm to improve their clients articles and therefore is hindered by a conflict of interest from making the change themselves. It is going very well. I explained coherently the plot for [[:simple:Primer (movie)]] time travel) for the Simple English version and got some kind kudos on a scientic forum because they finally understood. I write and read Simple for perhaps a different reason. I have a neurological genetic illness; one that I feared would cause me to lose my IQ. I was advised professionally to find a hobby that would use my knowledge and cognitive ability. They bet I could keep up. I registered in December 2010 as a user and then signed on to Simple in December 2011. I have created good 55 articles that I still watch and update and maintain. None were stubs but complete in sense of what was needed. Somme I consider clever: [[:simple:Cat righting reflex]], [[:simple:Buttered cat paradox]]. It earned me the patroller right, with which I also judge other articles. Except for typos, no one would ever discern my difference. Surely there are other editors on Simple with limitations and if not, then I a gatekeeper for those who cannot comprehend level 13 grade English but love to read and learn. I beleive my level of writing for Simple is about grade 8, which I prefer. Thank you. [[User:Fylbecatulous|Fylbecatulous]] [[User talk:Fylbecatulous|talk]] 12:49, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
*:Please note that SE links to northern Sami; you probably meant [[:simple:Cat righting reflex]] and [[simple:Buttered cat paradox]...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 09:33, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
*::of course; thank you [[User:Eptalon]]; not one of my better days to write an essay :)) thank you..and then not check my work..but I just had to comment and now I have dutifully correctly three bad links. ''sigh...'' all the best, [[User:Fylbecatulous|Fylbecatulous]] [[User talk:Fylbecatulous|talk]] 15:54, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
* {{Support}} It should be closed because a lot of people know basic English. Let's say: 99%. --70 ([[Special:Contributions/70.21.198.85|70.21.198.85]])
::'''Response''' - Let's not make up statistics to support something. If you don't know a number, research it :) [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 08:26, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support''' closure, in favour of improving English Wikipedia. I don't think a straight import would work well, but rather English Wikipedia could address the needs from ESL reader with multiple closely integrated solutions. For example, the availability of lead sections via Page Previews has no doubt improved the experience for ESL readers, as well as the introduction of "short description" fields (as inspired by Wikidata). I hope we can continue this trend and establish stricter conventions for the lead section. For information beyond the lead section, we'll need to come up with a new strategy. My own idea in that area would be integrated "simple summaries" for individual sections of an article. --[[User:Krinkle|Krinkle]] ([[User talk:Krinkle|talk]]) 00:08, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
::'''Response''' This might be something you can talk to Doc James at EN about, Krinkle. As he says below in the response to my LANGCOM request, "''Simplification is, however, super difficult as it is very easy to change the meaning if one is not careful.''" If editors on the English Wikipedia would be receptive, I'd like to try simplifying some of their articles to get a feel for how it'd be received. One thing's for sure though, I won't see SEWP go down without a fight. Something '''MUST''' already be in place before that is even considered. [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 08:26, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Well, in case it wasn't clear, I (the proposer) totally agree that SEW should not be closed BEFORE we have a working tool/solution that would integrate SEW into En Wiki. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 10:33, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support''' closure, since it seems very likely to me that the downsides of the continued existence of Simple (mainly providing free rein for vandals, trolls, and well-intentioned new users who don't really know how to edit the right way; I've already noticed a couple articles being created by new users on Simple that just sit around unnoticed for much longer than on enwiki) far outweigh any benefits. I'm sure it will be inconvenient to many people who use it to read the articles for their greater readability, but I do not think that Wikipedia and the concept of helping people learn to speak a language are inherently compatible. I would also recommend, nay, urge my fellow en.wiki editors and I to greatly increase the currently way-too-low readability of en.wiki articles, so that more people who are less fluent in English than most native speakers can understand the subject by reading those articles. [[User:Everymorning|Everymorning]] ([[User talk:Everymorning|talk]]) 19:51, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong Oppose''': if some are concerned that the wiki is not reaching its target audience, then closing it will only ensure that. I've been editing on Simple since 2011 with breaks here and there. I link to SEWP as appropriate from my learning management system as an English language educator in universities in Japan. Students can read these articles when they cannot read EnWP. I've presented on SEWP at academic conferences, and it always gets an interested response from teachers; some start using it. I was once even quoted in the New York Times on using Wiki writing with language students (WikiTravel before it went bad, and before I knew about Simple.) I've assigned writing tasks in SEWP to students with good results and plan to do so again next year with a new course. The site is very useful for some but not all people. Being useful to all or even a large majority of Internet users is not a requirement. A little cooperation from EnWP on making links to SEWP a little more prominent would be very helpful, I think. How would English Wikipedia function differently if Simple didn't exist? I doubt it would change at all. Closing SEWP is certainly not the way to get editors there to contribute to EnWP. Simple isn't hurting anything and it helps some. I think that is good enough. --[[User:Gotanda|Gotanda]] ([[User talk:Gotanda|talk]]) 06:06, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{neutral}} I would investigate if [[phab:T110190]] is good as alternate way or not. --[[User:Liuxinyu970226|Liuxinyu970226]] ([[User talk:Liuxinyu970226|talk]]) 11:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{support}} to closing it and integrating it into en-wiki. Yes, there is a need for articles written for people with less English-skill but Simple is too obscure to satisfy it. Instead, those speakers come to en-wiki. So what makes more sense than providing the experience they need where they come to? [[:wikia:starwars|Wookieepedia]] demonstrated that a whole wiki can run two different versions of the same page. Regards '''[[w:User:SoWhy|So]][[w:User talk:SoWhy|Why]]''' 12:09, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

*{{Weak oppose}} '''deletion''', and {{Strong support}} '''merge'''. Until concrete measures are taken to incorporate accessibility, SEW serves an unmet purpose. There are two separate set of problems SEW tries to solve. One is making editing process friendlier, and the other is accessible content. For all of the wikipedias, content is arguably the bigger goal here. In order to achieve that, editing needs to be a '''positive experience'''. Since the number of articles on SEW is quite sparse relative to WP EN, why not harness the strength and benefits of WP EN, with bonus of not dealing with banned LTA's? Perhaps a template on certain EN WP articles (starting with the existing 140,000 corresponding articles on SEW) can state that an accessible SEW lede should be included in the top. [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 16:40, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Oppose''' This is a fairly active project. [https://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportPageViewsPerCountryBreakdownHuge.htm Traffic analysis] shows it is relatively popular in India, or anyway twice as popular there as in the US or UK. I would not at all be opposed to greater integration with English Wikipedia, or proposals to pare down or further specialize the content.--[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] ([[User talk:Pharos|talk]]) 00:33, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{support}} it’s lame. {{unsigned|2600:1001:B01E:E429:312D:8690:3159:D15F}}

==Discussion==
===Early discussion that started on simple===

:Hello there. I am probably one of the oldest contributors (who still edits) Simple Wikipedia, and I have been with the project since the end of 2006. Over the least years I have seen that there is a growing knowledge that SEWP exists within the community; I think there have been (failed) proposals to start with similar ideas for French and German language Wikipedias. Many editors I have known from EnWP have an ambivalent, to hostile attitude towards SEWP, its editors, and its users. In that context, I cannot see how the project could be "absorbed" into EnWP. Yes, SEWP faces the problem of visibility, but I guess thats common to most smaller Wikis. How many editors are there for the Latin language, Scots, Gaelic, or Alemannic Wikipedias? - How many times have the closure of the respective projects been discussed? Another problem I see: How many editors care about readablity? - If the article is about mathematics, put the formulas, they stand for themselves? Compare [[:simple:Navier–Stokes equations]] to [[:en:Navier–Stokes equations]], and tell me how much a person that is not in natural sciences will understand from each version? - In my opinion, many editors of ENWP have lost the interest in explaining concepts, so that a common audience can understand them. The result is, that ENWP has many poor quality articles, which are not improved, because quality is not enforced. SEWP has a small base of quality aware editors, so that the rate of poor quality article is probably lower. Simple English Wikipedia is about explaining concepts well, it is not so much about using word-lists. A word list won't help when it comes to scientifically accurate articles. SEWP has an issue with visibility; it does not have one with content. "Merging" SEWP into ENWP will not solve the problem. It will increase the problem, because as I pointed out, many editors of ENWP lack the interest and incentives to write scientifically accurate articles that a common person with no specialized domain knowledge can understand. In short: Merging won't work. Even if the userbase is small,the project has found its niche, and I don't think it should be deleted, for the reasons given. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 10:29, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Before I forget: Being featured in pages like [https://xkcd.com/547/ XKCD] shows that the project has a certain visibility outside the community. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 11:10, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::EnWiki is big and some people are hostile to anything new. But that doesn't change the fact that SEW niche is too niche to be useful to pretty much anyone. Other languages are not a valid comparison, as they are, well, other languages. Simple English is a variant that can be, with some support from MediaWiki coders, incorporated into English Wikipedia. If you care about SEW content, you should care to make it as visible as possible. And the only way to make it visible (and hence, useful) is to make it a feature of En Wiki. Please don't think about losing identify, or project history, or such. This shouldn't matter, our main concern should be the benefits for the reader. My Korean students would certainly enjoy reading SEW articles which are more suited to their language level than general En Wiki articles, but there is no way they'll start using SEW because it has so little visibility it doesn't come in search engines. It's time to fix this. Let's not assume En Wiki will be by default hostile to absorbing SEW content. If this is done as a cool new feature (a new tab, perhaps), or such, majority should be ok. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 11:10, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::The idea that it doesn't come up in search engines is just plain false, it is often the first hit for a number of subjects. Or at the very least the link right below the English one. So that is an idea that needs to be nipped in the bud right away. And yes other languages are a valid comparison as Simple English has recently been recognized as a distinct language with its own ISO code. So it is no different than the variants of other languages that Eptalon mentions below that have even less of an audience than we do. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 14:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::''What is the ISO code? I couldn't find one. Note: ISO 639–6 has been withdrawn, and LangCom doesn't use it. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 16:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)''
:::::I can't remember off the top of my head. It was actually from LangCom that I was told of it, there is a ticket in to switch simple to it eventually. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 16:57, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Your claim that no one uses it is also false. You used the example of [[:simple:Donald Trump]], which is quite misleading. I was actually surprised at how little [[:simple:Donald Trump|Donald Trump]] was viewed, but it is not like that on other pages in the SEW. The article [[:simple:Names of God in Islam|Names of God in Islam]] receives a daily average of 1791 daily views. The English Wikipedia article [[:en:Names of God in Islam|Names of God in Islam]] receives an average of 526 daily pageviews. Recently when Donald Trump announced the proposal of the U.S. Space Force, [[:simple:Military of the United States|Military of the United States]] was viewed 6,530 times. This is not as insignificant as you make it out to be in your examples. Furthermore, this year the Simple English Wikipedia has received an average of [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&range=this-year&sites=simple.wikipedia.org 614,344 daily page views]. If you look at the [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&range=all-time&sites=simple.wikipedia.org all-time graph], you'd see a steady increase in average daily page views. See [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&range=this-year&sites=simple.wikipedia.org|az.wikipedia.org|nn.wikipedia.org|ur.wikipedia.org this graph] comparing the SEW (52nd largest wiki) to the 51st, 50th, and 49th largest Wikipedias. Regarding you saying "there is no way they'll start using SEW because it has so little visibility it doesn't come in search engines", could I ask what search engine they're using? I just tested it on computers/browsers that I've never used to edit, and in many cases it shows up on the first or second page of results. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 16:44, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::You do realize that XKCD is making fun of the Simple English Wikipedia, right? Seems to me that that cartoon argues in favor of getting rid of SEW. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 16:36, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Your point? There are cartoons all over the internet which make fun of lots of different things. Should we listen to them all? [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 16:53, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::The mention in XKCD was given as a reason to keep. My point is that if the only outside notice of something is in the form of mockery, that might be taken as an indication that the thing mentioned was poorly received and seen as useless. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 15:59, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
::Alemannic is one of the many dialects of German; there are no discussions to merge it into German language Wikipedia. As to the different varieties of Gaelic, how many of them have subprojects? - Scots, Irish, possibly Manx, and the variant in Brittany? - Should we therefore have one Wiki for "Gaelic", rather than three or four? - about ten million people have a passive knowledge of Plattdeutsch, about two million speak it natively. Is this reflected in the number of editors we have for Plattdeutsch? (and yes, with some effort it could probably be merged with the Dutch language Wiki). So please stop arguing that a project should be closed because it has little visibility; you had rather work towards increasing its visibility. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 11:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

:::I've been with Simple English wiki since 2009, and contributed about 2,600 articles, and over 60k article edits. To start with, the comparison with Donald Trump is misleading, because the top few En wiki articles are flushed by transient hits caused by notoriety. I kept records for many years of the simple pages I had written, especially the ones I had written without using copy-text from En wiki. I found the ratio was roughly 50 to one: there are about 50 En wiki hits to every one on Simple.
:::I edit subjects which are on basic school and university curricula, and try to write them much more simply that their counterparts on Englosh wiki. I always have been utterly shocked at the poor standard of prose written on En wiki. There are some exceptions, of course, and some whole areas where the contributions are superb. Music on En wiki is one example. But overall, the general standard is below poor. It is common to find sentences so long that it's clear the writer has completely lost track of where he started. Basic concepts are not explained properly. This is especially damaging where the topic is one which will occur on school syllabi. In fact, every possible error in writing prose can be liberally found on En wiki pages.
:::Moving on, moving on... The other topic is the link between a given article on En wiki and its counterpart in Simple. Many of us pleaded for putting the link for Simple at the top of the list of languages on En wiki pages. This was rejected. Now we get buried near the bottom of the list. Anything which improves the connection is to be welcomed.
:::Though it's only a minor point, remember that no branch of wikipedia has any effective kind of audience research. We don't even know who the users are! If we want to improve wikipedias in general, that is the place to look. It would be a major enterprise, of that I am sure. But it is the weak spot of all open wiki systems that they cannot know whether they achieve what they set out to do. If you think I'm exaggerating, have a look at the kind of developmental research done in programmed learning, and by the childrens' television workshop. [[User:Macdonald-ross|Macdonald-ross]] ([[User talk:Macdonald-ross|talk]]) 12:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*I mentioned Alemannic (als), Latin(la), and Scots wikipedia further up. Looking at the number of daily page views they are a factor of 20 behind SEWP (In the order of 10-20k, compared to the 500k of SEWP). Just for clarity... --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 18:26, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*I just have a very quick observation. There is a Wikipedia in Northern Sami. (se.) To the last data available (which is 20-30 years old), there are about 10-11 samic languages. These languages form two or three large groups; languages within the group are mutually understandable, those from another group need a lot of training/ exercise. Some of the languages had as little as 20 speakers (at the time the data was collected, that is either 1993 or 2002). In total, there were about 25.000 speakers of Samic languages; about 60% of them also understood Northern Sami. I could now argue that the about 7.000 people who did not understand Northern Sami, would proably not be able to profit from Northern Sami Wikipedia, and that Northern Sami Wikipedia should be closed down... And yes, ISP 639 has 11 (3-letter) codes for the different Sami Dialects. Different Sami dialects are recognised minority languages in Finland, Norway, and Sweden. Lets now assume that we capture 5% of the Sami people with our project. This would make almost 2.000 potential editors. Closing down Northern Sami would be amlost painless, yet, some people at the foundation consider Wikipedia to have a mission. Even if only very little money is spent on Northern Sami Wikipedia, its editor is much more valuable...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 18:03, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

===Line break===
*'''Note''' I have posted notice on the administrators noticeboard and village pumps of the English Wikipedia as this proposal would affect it (by diverting editors from simple to en.wiki) and it is the main Wikipedia for the English language, and thus participants from that language group would likely be inteterested. See: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)&diff=prev&oldid=846584293], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=846584217], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)&diff=prev&oldid=846584293], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Centralized_discussion&diff=prev&oldid=846589116]. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 17:31, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:*Will be interesting to see how the discussion goes now that it has been posted there because that is likely to cause the same thing that happens every time we try to have a cross wiki discussion involving the two projects, the English Wikipedia editors completely swamp and drown out anything that the Simple editors suggest due to numbers. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 17:06, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Note''' I have notified the English Wikipedia Medicine WikiProject at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#Proposal_for_closing_Simple_English_Wikipedia], as they have had some interaction with SEW in the past. --[[User:Mark viking|Mark viking]] ([[User talk:Mark viking|talk]]) 18:38, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I am very much in between on this. I think there are many reasons that this project should be closed but I also think that the concept has significant value. What I would like to see come from this is ''meaningful change'' within the community itself and administration. Simple, at it's heart is meant for readers, just like every other project. The content should be simplified for all the people it is meant to target. The problem is, the project is not attracting editors to bring that content and instead attracts all those mentioned above. This isn't about LTAs or vandals but I think the downfall of Simple Wikipedia has been the intense focus on the bureaucracy of it, where so much of the community and time is spent making the backend editing "simpler" and is being used as a stepping stone for editing that wouldn't be accepted elsewhere. Specifically, I think all of the backend stuff, the things that the target audience (readers) will never see or know exists, should mirror that of it's successful sister projects, meaning policies, guidelines, to an extent. This, in my opinion, will help attract competent editors again and get rid of that [[en:Mean Girls|"she doesn't even go here"]] attitude. If I am mistaken about the core purpose of this, I think the whole thing needs to be re-valuated as ultimately, this is an extension of an encyclopedia and ultimately the output is content and if we want to encourage people who would otherwise struggle, specifically due to language barriers or other issues on larger projects to edit, perhaps there needs to be a new project, similar to Wikiversity or test wiki. [[User:Chrissymad|Chrissymad]] ([[User talk:Chrissymad|talk]]) 19:35, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - I (and others) have voted above based on the merits of simplewiki, rather than the merging proposal given in the introduction. That proposal might be worth exploring, but should really be done on enwiki. A project to create "executive summaries" of pages could be started on enwiki and tested to see how it works. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 19:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. One of the problems of simple English is that it is actually very difficult to write well about a complex topic in simple English, but that is not a reason to shut it down. · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 20:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Question'''. Is the claim that closing simple will bring its editors to en: based on anything beyond wishful thinking? · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 20:08, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*:I know that for many editors on simplewiki, the fact that it isn't enwiki is a feature not a bug. Not everyone likes the bureaucracy and drama associated with a large project. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 22:13, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::It's more than wishful thinking, in my opinion. Ajrddatz is completely right; many of SEW's editors prefer it due to the lack of bureaucracy and drama that is plentiful in enwp. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:21, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Question''': Was a notice of this proposal posted anywhere on Simple English Wikipedia? I don't go there much, but there is nothing on the main page there. [[User:RudolfRed|RudolfRed]] ([[User talk:RudolfRed|talk]]) 20:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Yes. [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Simple_talk#There's_a_new_proposal_to_close_down_Simple_English_Wikipedia here] [[User:Operator873|Operator873]] ([[User talk:Operator873|talk]]) 20:33, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I haven't decided to support or oppose this proposal yet, but I have been looking over the Simple English Wikipedia, where I had never made any edits until today (in over 5 years of editing on this account). What I have found does not do much to convince me that the project should be kept, even though I have become skeptical of claims that "we need to delete everything!" since someone tried, unsuccessfully, to delete all portals on en.wiki (many of you of course know what I'm talking about). One of the biggest problems is that the Simple wiki is not very active, so vandalism can sometimes sit unchanged and unnoticed for much longer than it should (or would on en.wikipedia, or other much more active projects). This even happened over a decade ago and they covered it on NPR. [https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91371632 Apparently the Great Barrier Reef was discovered by 'Ben Dover']. This is what people need to bear in mind when someone says "what's the harm, so long as some people use it?" The answer is that it provides a relatively save haven for trolls, vandals, and good-faith users who don't understand how to create well-written and -sourced articles, all of whom can and do roam far too freely, often without anyone cleaning up their messes, on a project that is not very active. Simple also has the side effect of inviting [https://herald-review.com/blogs/decaturade/excerpts-from-simple-english-wikipedia/article_f4bf9e57-b1d5-5e16-bbc1-ecf0920e091d.html mockery] for its numerous poorly-written articles. I am also sympathetic to the idea of merging Simple with en.wikipedia.org, because English Wikipedia articles should be written simply enough for non-experts to understand them anyway (though I realize that's not quite the same thing as writing an article to be read by ESL students/children). But maybe it'd be a good idea to add a "simplified version" button as mentioned above by some users. [[User:Everymorning|Everymorning]] ([[User talk:Everymorning|talk]]) 21:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**{{rto|Everymorning}} Pretty much what I said, but shorter and probably nicer :) --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 08:26, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Question''': how large, active and well read is Simple English Wikipedia? Are there any other Wikipedias that are comparable? [[User:John Cummings|John Cummings]] ([[User talk:John Cummings|talk]]) 19:41, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*:We are talking about a team of about 25-35 active (long-term, named, non-vandal) editors. There are rougly 135k content pages. Depending on the day, there are between 500k and 600k unique page views per day.--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 11:29, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Question''': what strategies could be used to mitigate some of issues raised with Simple English? Are there any easy wins in this list? [[User:John Cummings|John Cummings]] ([[User talk:John Cummings|talk]]) 19:44, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

*While I personally don't think SEW is doing much good, I can see that this discussion is not heading toward a consensus to close it down. Maybe what SEW needs is an influx of new contributors to give it some newfound energy. I would be willing to be part of something like that, but I am not willing to spend much time contributing to SEW in its present state. [[User:Lepricavark|Lepricavark]] ([[User talk:Lepricavark|talk]]) 19:51, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
::{{yo|Lepricavark}} What do you think would make SEW more attractive to new editors? [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 21:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:::{{yo|Vermont}} for one thing, the very small number of regulars makes it hard for others to feel motivated to pitch in. As circular as this answer is, you need more editors to get more editors. I'm happy to be part of a community of contributors, but I don't want to be a lone ranger. I'm not entirely sure how you would go about recruiting new editors. [[User:Lepricavark|Lepricavark]] ([[User talk:Lepricavark|talk]]) 23:01, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
::{{od}} What could see (and what has already been done, I think) is to have a group of editors bring over & simplify a well-defined set of articles from EnWP. It has been done in the field of medicine, where a number of conditions were created & adapted for SEWP. Other things: we do have two levels of "better quality articles"; rasing an artcle to the respective level is a lot of work though, and doesn't occur too often, as we are only few editors. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 07:31, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
* A dedicated [[en:Wikipedia:Namespace|namespace in en.Wikipedia]] with some vestige of autonomous governance will be enough. In fact, I already proposed it ∼10 years ago, but nothing came from [[../Closure_of_Simple_English_Wikipedia_(2)|the previous discussion]] in general and this idea in particular. [[User:Incnis Mrsi|Incnis Mrsi]] ([[User talk:Incnis Mrsi|talk]]) 19:59, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
::If this results in the keeping of the project I believe it would be beneficial to add a link on enwiki articles to the Simple English version, perhaps on the top of the "In Other Languages" section. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 21:06, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:::We did at one point have an RfC on en to move the simple link to the top of the language list. It failed, but perhaps it could be had again to see if consensus has changed. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 14:29, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:::: This is already a reality with [[mw:Compact Language Links|Compact Language Links]]: wouldn’t say that Simple English Wikipedia appears exactly on top of language box, but it is consistently in language box in English Wikipedia for readers. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 17:07, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::I don't have Compact Language Links turn on for en so I guess I have not noticed. It was a few years back that we tried the RfC so it may have been before they were added. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 17:18, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' Rather than remove developed content, it seems preferable to seek better modes of delivery for the future. Tighter integration between simple.wikipedia and en.wikipedia could provide better oversight and clearer references, especially for biographies. For example, where simple.wikipedia has an article or section matching the en.wikipedia page being delivered, could it be treated as an optional extension feature, flagged using a ‘’Simple’’ link much like the ''Edit'' link, and the article/section text shown similarly to hovering over a reference? That said, reviewing some simple.wikipedia articles on places, on music and on theory this week has given me some concerns. I’ve seen: dubious factual accuracy, such as the River Forth flowing through Edinburgh, or Bebop involving improvising over a small number of chords (rather than probably a greater number and speed of complex chord changes than any other music?); undue attention to a brief trial hovercraft service on the Firth of Forth; content which is far from simple (anarchism described versus a ''"pragmatic philosophy of antidisestablishmentarianism"''), much of the article on Jacques Lacan listing his jargon terms, etc., and use of "famous" as a descriptor which adds nothing to a reader’s understanding. Each of these is, of course, open to a "so fix it" objection, and might be improved by more eyes on the simple.wikipedia content. Perhaps encouraging specialist project groups on en.wikipedia to review simple.wikipedia content in their areas could be a start. [[User:AllyD|AllyD]] ([[User talk:AllyD|talk]]) 15:38, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

=== Unique status of this wiki ===
I see many arguments pop up about abuse in the project and I don’t regard it as a valid way of thinking, but what I don’t see from ‘support’ side is the justification for keeping the entirely unique status of Simple English wikis (both Wikipedia and Wiktionary) in our movement. Could someone stop arguing about LTAs for a moment and give their thoughts on this specific argument? As a non-English editor, it’s hard for me to fathom or justify the continued existence of Simple English Wikipedia under such lens and it’s sad that mostly English-speaking people don’t engage with this particular thing about current Simple English project in its current and continuing status when (as LangCom is robotically bureaucratic to its core and unable to do any ‘controversial’ decisions that move from their documents) this request will be decided to be rejected. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 22:46, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:Sorry I don't have any references but it is known that some English speakers are intelligent but struggle to comprehend standard written English. Compare [[:simple:Charles Darwin]] and [[:en:Charles Darwin]] and many others. I don't know of any studies regarding users of Simple but there are good editors there as well as LTAs—just like enwiki! [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 00:56, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::I believe it is also of use by non-native speakers who have conversational English. I have also used it, as a native speaker, to understand some of the more insanely complicated articles. I don't think there would be any objection if another major wiki (Germany etc) wanted to create its counterpart (assuming it survives). [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) 13:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:: Given that there were proposals of such projects [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Simple German 4|in German]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia French Simple 3|French]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Simple Chinese|Chinese]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Simple Spanish 2|Spanish]], and [[Wikipedia in Simple Portuguese|Portuguese]], is it really a unique situation to English that could warrant keeping situation as is? I don’t have a non-procedural opinion on this matter, but to keep Simple English Wikipedia, given its current unique status in our movement, without ISO code, without counterparts in other languages, seems unfair to me. I get that the volunteers don’t want to lose their hard work, but the more thoughtout solution would not be to keep Simple English WP as it is right now, but either to transform it to something integral in Wikimedia movement or move it somewhere else. The status quo just shows that Anglo-centric nature of our movement is still alive and well even today. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 17:01, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I believe the LangCom has said they would be ok with other language ones if they had a formalized basic version of that particular language in the same way that [[simple:Basic English|Basic English]] exists for English. I may be wrong but I think they are currently trying out a French one by starting it on the French wiki with the plans to move it off on its own if it works. Atleast that is what my shabby memory is telling me, it may have been another language. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 17:12, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

=== High participation from native English speakers, but... ===
I could see here a lot of ''oppose'' votes made from mostly native English speakers who feel directly ''touched'' by this RfC (of course, it is their mother tongue), but no so much participation from the target audience of SEWP: ESL/ESFL readers and readers with comprehension problems, if I do not forget other target readers. Their voices will be welcome and will contribute to reach a more inclusive consensus if possible. A consensus from a single language or single cultural origin community (which could not represent Wikimedia community as a whole) is not a consensus. Whatever the result of this RfC would be, more constructive comments are welcome, from either side, and feel free to write your comment in your own language. --[[User:Zerabat|Zerabat]] ([[User talk:Zerabat|discusión]]) 15:27, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
:As a native English speaker language instructor, you have a point. But, I would suggest that many language learners just focus on the article content and skip over all of the editing and admin stuff and things in the left column. You might be surprised how many university students are still unaware that they can edit Wikipedia. Depending upon the course I have assigned editing SEWP articles to learners at times. Not a single one had ever edited before. And, the level of language in these lengthy discussions would likely turn off many SEWP readers. All that said, yes, input from L2 users of English is always important. Thank you for encouraging it. --[[User:Gotanda|Gotanda]] ([[User talk:Gotanda|talk]]) 05:54, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
::I agree that we need input from non-native speakers of English, but it's hard to measure that. Also, I'd not recommend SEW and a place for ESLs learning English to edit. SEW content is supposed to be simple, but ESLs don't do simple - they do errors. Writing a proper SEW/Basic English article should require no less language fluency then writing a regular English article. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 10:28, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': Can this proposal be [[:en:WP:SNOW]]-closed as "no consensus" (which I assume results in the wiki being kept open, because on enwiki AFD, a "no consensus" close results in the article being kept)? [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 18:25, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

==Counterproposal==
Instead of trying to integrating simple: into en:, which would probably be much like integrating a snowball into hell, keep it as an independent wiki, but make the interwiki links much more prominent between the two on the principle that each is the alternative wiki most likely to be useful to a person using the other. This would make simple: far more visible, and that might be sufficient to kickstart it into a new level of activity and push the quality up a notch or two.

The communities are different. Integration would basically overwhelm and probably destroy the simple: community. Any not-blocked user on any wikimedia project can already edit on any other, so technically nearly all en: users are already users on simple: and vice versa. Closer linking while remaining independent may allow simple: to develop into what it should be. If it doesn't work, little harm will have been done, and the process would be reversible. If it does work, great good may be done. Cheers, · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 06:35, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:I definitely support making the interwikis more prominent on English. It was proposed awhile back on English to do just that but the community there ended up shooting down the proposal with reasoning something along the lines of that would give us special status. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 11:15, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::It would give special status between en: and simple:, but they are the same language basically, so special status would not be unreasonable. The two Wikipedias are not in competition, we are all working towards the same goals. The special status would work both ways. The advantage would probably be more to the benefit of simple:, but this cannot be known for certain without testing. It is also possible that both projects would benefit, and there is no evidence that I am aware of that it would be any disadvantage at all to en: If it does take any traffic away from en: that would be a fairly good indication that the equivalent article on en: is sub-optimal, and that there is a need for simpler articles which would be valuable feedback. In some cases it is very obvious that the article on en: is poor quality, but an analysis of readers switching between the two might be useful to show where and how both can be improved. I do not think that en: could be threatened in any way by such a change. It may or may not gain much, but there is potential for simple: to gain a lot, the movement to gain a lot, and the reading public to gain a lot. No loss, net gain. Seems a good bet to me. · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 14:44, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

:Based on my observation of my ESL university students, very few notice interwiki links. They'd have to be made MUCH MORE prominent to be useful. A cosmetic move to, let's say, where links to commons/wikivoyage are (higher on the left menu) won't cut it. This has to be at least as visible as a new tab, next to read/edit, etc. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 12:26, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
::If there was a "Simple" tab on ENWP, could it not just take the reader to a matching article on SEWP and vice versa? [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] ([[User talk:Green Giant|talk]]) 13:03, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Yes, I think a tab which can lead readers to SEWP or a template like commonscat can both be helpful to increase visibility but that is possible if enwiki agrees and per {{u|Djsasso}} that might not be the case.-[[User:BRPever|BRP]]'''[[User talk:BRPever|'' ever'']]''' 13:38, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Technically it would be quite simple. It is just a matter of dressing up a hyperlink so that it displays in a different place and looks a bit different to what already exists. · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 15:42, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::Yes, it's very easy to add a new tab using CSS. But I doubt that the enwiki community would go for it. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 16:50, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
:::It could, but what's the point of having a separate SEW platform, with a duplicated category structure, and all other support stuff, including for example duplicated, low visibility talk pages? --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 10:25, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I actually have code on both wiki's to do just that for myself. It bounces me back and forth. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 13:56, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

What if redlinks were linked to the relevant Wikipedia article (if applicable)? If this were done, I would suggest putting some sort of superscript Wikipedia logo next to the link. Basically it would be like RationalWiki’s system, but automatic. Just an idea; this would probably need a separate RfC. —[[User:pythoncoder|''' pythoncoder ''']] ([[User talk:pythoncoder|talk]] | [[Special:Contribs/pythoncoder|contribs]]) 20:29, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

==A request from myself to the LANGCOM==

I write to you today as a native speaker of Danish, who uses English as a second language. I have written this statement against the closure of the Simple English Wikipedia in my best English. I doubt I'll mess it up, but you never know - It wouldn't be the first time I have screwed up, I doubt also it will be the last.

I am disheartened that this proposal has been opened. The reason given being that we as a project, are simply not reaching our target audience.

The Simple English Wikipedia has existed since before the standard rules and guidance for a project to exist were created. This means that technically, we're a grandfathered project.

And yet, here we are having to justify our existence to the LANGCOM - a group of people who hadn't been in existence too long when we opened, against rules which nobody had created and against people who don't even use our Wikipedia.

SEWP is a project which grew out of a thought for accessibility, to help users of English as a second or subsequent language. The primary English wikipedia contains many articles which simply are not written at a level which English learners or non-native users could understand.

When comparing the work of simple english wikipedia with that of the primary english wikipedia, the first thing people think we're doing is "dumbing down". Which we're not - what we're doing is making the work easier to understand.

Nobody should be thought of as being "dumb" because they need to have things written in a manner which makes them accessible. That means blind people are dumb, because they can't read written text, no? No. Of course not! That's just ridiculous.

But this is just one part of the argument against our existence. Another is that we attract banned users and vandals from other projects who just want to mess with us. That in itself is patently wrong. Find me a project which doesn't attract vandals, and I'll show you a Wikipedia with a read-only database.

I began working with the SEWP, when I realised that the bureaucratic nature of the primary English Wikipedia, mixed with the manner and complexity of their article writing, meant that my chances of contributing meaningfully were about the same as me giving birth sometime in the near future.

I have now been with SEWP for two and a half years, and in that time, have made more than eight times the number of edits on SEWP as I have on the primary English Wikipedia. Why? Because it's easier to use. I believe in the goal of Wikipedia, which I found out from a guy called Steven Walling: To assemble the sum of all human knowledge and make it available for everyone for free, in their own language.

I believe that this goal should include making it available in a manner which people can freely understand without help. This is why we're here.

To close the Simple English Wikipedia without an accessible alternative would be damaging to the goal and work of Wikipedia. I hope that the LANGCOM will understand how much the (serious) editors of SEWP care about what we do.

I would never vote to close any Wikipedia project with an active community.

If there are problems, tell us.

If we need solutions, help us find them.

Don't disband us because we don't meet your goals.

Remember, your goals didn't exist when we began.

[[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 17:50, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
:I agree with you on every single point there. Sincerely, '''[[User:Xenrose|Xenrøse]]''' • '''[[User talk:Xenrose|T]]''' 00:07, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
::The bigger issue IMO is how do we get the main EN WP written in easier to understand language (especially the leads)? Those who do this work often get insults thrown at them. But that of course is an EN WP issue not a simple EN WP issue... [[User:Doc James|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 07:03, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
:::You are right, {{yo|Doc James}}. But maybe it's something to put to ENWP's editors, a few of them are here campaigning for our closure. If ENWP's articles were easier to understand, there would have been no need for us.
:::Until they are, we have a place. Maybe some of SEWP's editors should drop by and try to simplify some of their articles to see the reaction; it would help us gauge feeling. What do you think? [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 07:35, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Agree [[User:DaneGeld]]. Simplification is, however, super difficult as it is very easy to change the meaning if one is not careful. [[User:Doc James|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 11:04, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::Simplification is annoying, causes addiction to caffeine and makes you wish you could tear your hair out sometimes. But we do it because of a wish to. There are articles I know from EN, which we could '''''never''''' simplify, because one slight hiccup and we could change something which makes sense into complete and utter garbage (think [[:en:Quantum mechanics]] and you'll get a good idea of what I mean). Maybe we could start a course at Wikiversity in how to write in Simple English, for the benefit of regular editors who wish to help out. It would be so much better if we could just get along. [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 15:45, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
::There are two separate set of problems SEW tries to solve. One is '''making editing process friendlier''', and the other is '''accessible content'''. For all of the wikipedias, content is arguably the bigger goal here. In order to achieve that, editing needs to be a positive experience. Since the number of articles on SEW is quite sparse relative to WP EN, why not harness the strength and benefits of WP EN, with bonus of not dealing with banned LTA's? Perhaps a template on certain EN WP articles (starting with the existing 140,000 corresponding articles on SEW) can state that an accessible SEW lede should be included in the top (I know SEW does not imply article length, but rather style), or through some special EN WP feature, be visible to those who have it enabled. This doesn't solve the problem of a frustratingly pedantic editing experience on EN WP, but we can work on that. [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 15:44, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

:Dear DaneGeld. The goal of SEW is not to be a more friendly editing place. It is to create helpful content that is easily available. That SEW is more friendly/easy than EnWP is irrelevant to the wider world. The point is that SEW creates useful content (setting aside spam/etc.) that is not widely seen, because most Wikipedia users/Internauts don't know of SEW. SEW was a great idea that should've never been an independent wiki. It should've been a feature of EN Wikipedia (and others). I am sorry to say this, but it is time for your 'safe, friendly' playground to grow up and become useful to the world (which reads ENWP, not SEW). It doesn't matter how old SEW is and how nice it is and so on. We are here to build useful stuff, not hidden gardens for small groups that end up duplicating efforts (content) with bigger projects for no good reason other then "our small wiki is a nicer/friendlier place then the big scary ENWP". --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 10:24, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
::I think your opinions (because that is what they are) that people don't read simple have been thoroughly discredited at this point because the traffic stats clearly show that isn't the case. Clearly it is useful to a very large number of people. I believe it was 7.9 million unique hits per month. One of the goals of simple is actually to make editing simpler as well as the language. It is very clear you didn't actually know much about simple when you made this nomination. I don't know what got this bee in your bonnet about simple considering you don't at all edit there, and its existence doesn't in any way impact ENWP. Being that closed projects generally still remain visible once closed in a perpetual frozen state, there are no resources to be saved. Simple's goals are not just to duplicate English Wikipedia and suggesting we are just a duplicate is ridiculous because we fulfill a gap that doesn't get filled by English Wikipedia. Would I like to see English Wikipedia filling that gap, of course I would. I just don't think its likely possible, mostly because of editors like yourself who seem to look down on Simple English. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 13:52, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Piotrus, you are right that the goal of the SEWP is to create helpful content that is easily available - but do you honestly, for one nanosecond, think that people who have trouble writing in English are going to attempt to edit articles on the main English Wikipedia? Of course, [[:en:WP:CIR|Competence is Required]], but it's much easier to create that content in an environment where we're not getting bogged to death with more abbreviations than we know what to do with and people telling us this is wrong, this is wrong, that doesn't belong there, etc. We're friendlier and quite frankly, far more welcoming than the ENWP. We're not stuck in red tape and arguments over things that seem completely pointless. The difference between ENWP and SEWP is like the difference between sticking a leg of beef with your bare hand into a Lion's mouth, and petting your neighbours exceptionally friendly Chihuahua. [[User:DaneGeld|DaneGeld]] ([[User talk:DaneGeld|talk]]) 15:40, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

==Time for an RfC on En Wiki==
Regardless of the outcome of this proposal, we should start an RfC on En Wiki on whether or how the En wiki community would like to see SEW integrated (again, independent of whether SEW is closed or not). This perhaps could be phrased as follows, with regard to some options that ENWP community should discuss/vote (please suggest what else we may want to ask the ENWP community).

Concerns have been raised that the [[Simple English Wikipedia]] is not reaching its audience (due to very low visibility), and that this could be improved through closer integration with the English Wikipedia. Other concerns about SEW have been raised as well, and there is [[:meta:Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Simple English Wikipedia (3)|ongoing discussion on meta about the future of SEW]].

With the understanding that ENWP cannot make any binding decisions regarding SEW future (which is to be decided by the [[:meta:Language committee]] and the [[:meta:Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees]]), which of the following scenarios would be best for ENWP:
* change nothing (don't make SEW more visible then it is now)
* improve SEW visibility option 1: move a link to SEW articles from 'Languages' to 'Other projects' (where we list Commons, Wikivoyage, etc.) left nav/toolbar?
* improve SEW visibility option 2: add a link to a SEW article to the top of the article, next to the read tab perhaps, to improve its visibility making the average reader aware of the SEW's existence (since very few regular users bother looking at the links on the left anyway y and it is likely most average readers are unaware of SEW's existence?) Options: a) nothing, or b) a red link to create a new article on SEW
* close SEW and merge it namespace articles into a new ENWP namespace: create a new 'simple' namespace on English Wikipedia, to be populated while SEW is closed while its mainspace articles are copied/transwikified to the ENWP? That namespace would be best accessible through a new simple tab, like discussed in the previous option.

Separate from the above:
* how, if at all, should we improve the visibility of the SEW link in the Wikipedia mobile app? Right now (AFAIK) mobile page does not not link 'Other Projects' at all. There's plenty of room to add a SIMPLE link next to the language choice tool, for example. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page Mobile Wikipedia link]. So, a) should a link to SEW be added to the mobile version next to the language button or b) should SEW be available as the first option from the currently alphabetical list of languages in the mobile language menu?

Anything I missed that you think would be good to ask on ENWP? (Also, if anyone wants to start an RfC there before I get to it, go ahead). --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 11:15, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
:This sort of RfC would make sense, once this discussion is closed for a number of reasons. 1. It would mean we knew if we could take your option #4 off the table or not. 2. It would allow a much more focused set of options and messaging. 3. It would also avoid being the canvassing this would appear to be if posted in the middle of this discussion here especially since its been posted in a number of places there already. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]])
:Aren't we doing the same thing here? For me this RFC means:
*Clearly saying SEWP community don't have a say in the matter and should do as ENWP community decides for it. So, this kind of discussion should be carried out after and in regards to this discussion.
:Also, it is posted in many noticeboards in en so keeping a section here and commenting here seems fine.-[[User:BRPever|BRP]]'''[[User talk:BRPever|'' ever'']]''' 15:35, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Language proposal policy

2018-06-24T19:58:07Z

Lojbanist: /* Flaws of ISO-639-3 */

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:''Please add new topics to the bottom of this page''

== Add Ilonggo and Maranaw wikipedia ==

Please add the Ilonggo and Maranaw wikipedia to be more language. Thanks! --[[User:Cyrus noto3at bulaga|Cyrus noto3at bulaga]] ([[User talk:Cyrus noto3at bulaga|talk]]) 04:18, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
:You need to make requests at [[RNL]], which I see you already started to do. --[[User:MF-Warburg|MF-W]] 14:52, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

== New project ==

Hello, can somebody create a wiktionary for the cu.wikipedia.org? There is non at that moment, only [https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wt/cu/%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0&redirectfrom=infopage that]. Thank you kindly! -- [[User:Vvs-dm|'''Vēnī‧vīdī‧scrīpsī''']][[User talk:Vvs-dm|''' [DM]''']] 19:47, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:"That" ([[:incubator:Wt/cu]]) is exactly where a Church Slavonic Wiktionary is supposed to be created. Feel free to contribute to it. People need to contribute to that test on Incubator first before there is any chance of an independent subdomain at {{nowrap|cu.wiktionary.org}}. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 20:06, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::Hello [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]], how do I need to contribute? I can't see where to create a page, since I'm directly redirected to the Wikimedia incubator. Greetings! -- [[User:Vvs-dm|'''Vēnī‧vīdī‧scrīpsī''']][[User talk:Vvs-dm|''' [DM]''']] 20:13, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::I do not have a great deal of time at the moment, and will be happy to elaborate more in a day or two. But to make a long story short:
::*On Incubator, you create a Wiktionary page in Church Slavonic the same way you would create a Wiktionary page on any other Wikipedia. The only difference is that the page name has to have the following prefix: '''Wt/cu/'''. So you can see that the main page of the Church Slavonic Test Wiktionary is called [[:incubator:Wt/cu/главьна страница|Wt/cu/главьна страница]], instead of just plain "главьна страница" (or, to use Russian Wiktionary as a comparitor, [[:ru:wikt:Заглавная страница|Заглавная страница]]).
::*Other than that, just continue to create pages. If you need additional information, you can find Wiktionary-specific help on most Wiktionary projects, and Incubator-specific help at [[:incubator:Help:FAQ]]. Good luck, and thanks for helping! [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 20:22, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::::I understand that, but what if I want to create some templates. Do I need to do the same? Because I will need them like every other Wiktionary. And what about MediaWiki:Common.css and .js? They don't exist either. Thank you for helping me. -- [[User:Vvs-dm|'''Vēnī‧vīdī‧scrīpsī''']][[User talk:Vvs-dm|''' [DM]''']] 20:28, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::You need to create or import templates for this test just as you would in any Wiktionary. (Remember to add attribution when you do that.) Templates would be named <code>'''Template:Wt/cu/''name'''''</code>. As far as Common.css and Common.js go, create them first in mainspace as <code>'''Wt/cu/Common.css'''</code> and <code>'''Wt/cu/Common.js'''</code>. Then ping me at my Incubator user page and I'll move them into MediaWiki namespace for you. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 15:30, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

==Question on own wikipedia because of cultural differences==

How do cultural differences and political hurdles affect the creation of a new wiki, let's say in the case of china and taiwan or ukraine and russia? Any ideas how this works out in practice? Would 2 versions be justified (one in a secure third country), if the political system would be a problem for people making edits? Would be interesting to know. —The preceding [[Help:Signature|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:104.168.144.189|104.168.144.189]] ([[User talk:104.168.144.189|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 11:38, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

==Austrian German==

A german editor in the german wikipedia recently [https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/IP-Sperre-Wikipedia-blockiert-zehntausende-anonyme-Oesterreicher-3660293.html blocked a whole ip-rage from Austria for anonymous edits]. While I understand the frustration with fake edits by anonymous accounts, this is not well received in Austria, which has a long and rather ambivalent history with germany. So there were talks of forking the german wikipedia. Some of it was fuelled by anger but there were also valid reasons because of different history, culture and langauge traditions that lead to a lot of senseless edit-wars that bind energy and effort and lead to such extreme measures. This could all be avoided with a seperate wiki where the different focus, terminology and language peculiarities could thrive next to each other (Bairisch, too):

* History Examples: In a lot of history articles persons are referred to as Germans and their language Deutsch which is a misrepresentation of fact that takes hours to edit out (born in city a, now part of country b, earlier part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire in a period where it was no longer part of Germany and so on... you get the picture...)
* Literature and Culture: Germany, Switzerland and Austria (+ Danube States) do have a distinctly different focus on literature (see the genesis and edit discussions over "German Literature" - a lot of energy that could have been better spent with 2 or 3 distinct versions). While Germany's literature was mainly in German, Austrian-Hungarian and Swiss literature was in all languages of the multi-ethnical empire / countries (Schmidt-Dengler et al). This gets sometimes edited out and leads to another sore point and the basis to more edit wars...
* Links: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Austrian_German&oldid=764754254#References_and_further_reading Austrian German]

So, my question: If there are cultural differences that lead to unnecessary edit wars over cultural differences - is a one language version enough - and if yes, is there any chance, an austrian german wikipedia could be created, as it is formally a distinct german based language (ISO and EU)? —The preceding [[Help:Signature|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:104.168.144.189|104.168.144.189]] ([[User talk:104.168.144.189|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 11:38, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

: Wikipedias must have separate languages. As [[w:Austrian German]] says, it is a dialect of German, and doesn't have the separate language code required to get its own Wikipedia.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:22, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

== Wikimedia main extensions group ==

For your information, recently the message group for the [[translatewiki:Special:MessageGroupStats/ext-0-wikimedia-main|main extensions used on Wikimedia]] had grown over 5500 messages, despite several rounds of cleanup. Explicitly wanted changes can be seen on the [[phabricator:diffusion/GTWN/history/master/groups/MediaWiki/WikimediaMainAgg.yaml|group definition file]], but big changes can happen inside extensions when developers add or remove messages. I'm now trying to make the group more human: [[gerrit:345293]], [[gerrit:345297]]. [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 10:09, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

== Why ISO discrimination? ==

I would like to ask why the languages without ISO codes are discriminated on Wikipedia, a place where in theory people take care of diversity and democracy... (The same policy applies to the musicians without the official CDs - are they worse than those who have sold millions of albums? Should they be banned and forgotten forever because they had no luck? Same situation actually.)
[[User:prz_rulez|prz_rulez]] ([[User talk:prz_rulez|talk]]) 14:19, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

: The "language" without an ISO code that you're talking about is Montenegrin, and Wikimedia has decided not to have multiple Wikipedias for the same language. We have left it up to ISO--in practice, the Library of Congress and the Summer Institute of Linguistics--to decide whether or not two dialects are the same language.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 20:06, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

:{{ping|prz_rulez}} You can see those examples of languages that without ISO codes:
{{hat|List of RFL requests inside}}
* [[Requests for new languages/Old Wikipedia]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Aeres]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Algero-Moroccan Arabic]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Alkaxus]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Anglish]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Antwerpish]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Appalachian English]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Aramaic of Jesus]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Arwi]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Australian English]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Baybayin Tagalog 2]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Bofonisk]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Braille]]
* Wikipedia Brazilian Portuguese [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Brazilian Portuguese 2|2]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Brazilian Portuguese 3|3]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Brazilian Portuguese 4|4]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia British English]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Chamyuet]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Common Czech]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Cyrillic English]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Cyrillic Polish]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Daylami]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Early Middle English (EMe)]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia English Braille]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia English-Nepali]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Eurofarsi]]
* Wikipedia European Portuguese [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia European Portuguese|1]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia European Portuguese 2|2]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia European Portuguese 3|3]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Frainc-comtou]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Galego-AGAL]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Galician-Portuguese]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Gorkha]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Hanja]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Hantec]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia High Norwegian]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Insubric]]
{{hab}}
... and others, how do those proposals senseful? Because we can wait for a code? Because they're just language? This rule is fair, as it can hold up vandalism such as from CasetteTapeMaster. --[[User:Liuxinyu970226|Liuxinyu970226]] ([[User talk:Liuxinyu970226|talk]]) 06:49, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

No, this rule isn't fair, it's never fair if a couple of people decides for one whole group. If it wasn't about very few enthusiasts, but some Trump-alike businessmen, we would for sure have the situations of briberies in order to get the ISO code.
But these enthusiasts often have no real power. Besides, that's sort of unfair to leave such a hard task resting on their shoulders, without any help. If Wikipedia, quote unquote "doesn't want to create new language entities", then why they can't simply call it a dialect and leave them doing their thing? I've always thought that it's in the interest of Wikipedia to have more articles in more and more languages - but it seems that I was wrong...
Oh, and justifying such discriminative practice due to a couple of trolling idiots is a really weak borscht.
[[User:prz_rulez|prz_rulez]] ([[User talk:prz_rulez|talk]]) 15:26, 02 August 2017 (UTC)

:I feel a need to step in here, which I was hoping not to do. The vandalism—the "trolling idiots"—really have nothing to do with the situation.
:Please read again [[LPP#Requisites for eligibility]]. The Wikimedia Foundation simply has not wanted to be in the business of determining what is a language, what is a dialect, and so forth. WMF has felt that the standards organizations—in practice LoC and SIL—are the ones with the expertise to determine this. Accordingly, WMF's basic attitude has been that if the standards organizations are willing to give a code, WMF will not argue the point; similar, if ISO is not willing to give a code, WMF is not planning to argue the point. It is up to individual language communities to make their cases to the standards organizations. Communities that are not able to get an ISO code are always able to create projects elsewhere on the web, such as at the [[:wikia:incubatorplus|Incubator Plus on Wikia]].
:You might then say, "Why does WMF feel this way? Why not just open this to anyone?" And the answer is that in the past, this became a free-for-all. And the result of that was that many of the wikis that were consequently created ended up as not representing meaningful, serious projects, but rather only silly or biased or vanity projects. Not all did, of course, but many did. So WMF decided not to allow that to continue, and instead decided that ISO 639 codes were the best reliable, third-party source for determination of what constitutes a language and what doesn't. And on the whole, that's probably accurate.
:All of the above having been said: LangCom realizes that there are cases on the edges where the ISO-code situation is perhaps <s>more</s> as much political <s>than</s> as scholarly, and where the ISO-code decisions <s>are therefore perhaps not entirely fair</s> are not entirely in alignment with how WMF would ideally define languages for its own purposes. Accordingly, LangCom is discussing a policy change that will be ''a little'' more open than this. Now, until and unless that policy change is adopted, I do not want to say more. I will say that the presumption will remain that ISO-code decisions are accurate; the bar for a language community without its own ISO 639–3 code is going to be quite high to get an approval. But in certain cases it will be allowed.
:As far as I'm concerned, [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Montenegrin 5]] can stay in place until a decision is made about this new policy, and then a decision is made on whether Montenegrin qualifies under the new policy. My guess is that it will not:
:*At the moment it will be considered a variety of Serbian, and one where the mutual intelligibility is close to 100%
:*The fact that ISO did decide that Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian are separate languages, yet doesn't recognize Montenegrin as one, is going to be a negative factor
:*:Has the Montenegrin community, or preferably the government of Montenegro, ever formally petitioned for a language code? (On SIL's website, I couldn't find a formal attempt to get Montenegrin a code.) Before you start complaining about the fact that Montenegrin has no code, do that first. Really. Don't write letters to the Library of Congress, make a formal submission.
:But I could be wrong about all this, and the situation could certainly change over time. So I suggest that [[User:prz_rulez]] be patient, and everyone else not be so accusatory, and let's see how this evolves over time. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 16:23, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
::I will add: If there is an active code request at SIL—and you'll have to show some documentation of it—we will allow you to have a test at Incubator, even if you do not have a language code. The risk, of course, is that if the code request is rejected, we will delete the Incubator test (moving it to Incubator Plus or to any other place of your choice). The place to make such a request is [[:incubator:I:RST|I:RST]]. But I will be the deciding administrator there, and I will say no unless you can show that there is a formal code request open at SIL. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 19:17, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
: The word "fair", in English, does not mean "you get what you want". I'm glad you can attack the reputations of people who have spent their lives trying to document rare dying languages because their studies have led them to conclude that Montenegrin is a dialect of Serbian.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 07:28, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Prosfilaes}} Perhaps the word "fair" wasn't quite right there; I tried to rephrase above. If that's still not quite right, please understand the following:
:: My intention was not in the least to attack anyone's reputation—I admire SIL's work greatly. But it's no secret that SIL's processes are not always transparent, and it's certainly clear that there are cases on the boundary that could legitimately go either way. If you look at [[:en:ISO 639-3#Criticism|ISO 639–3 § Criticism]], you will see that there are expert linguists (which I am not) that express criticism of the 639–3 process. So the whole point here is that while in general everyone is willing to rely on SIL and ISO 639–3—even happy to do so—there may be a few cases right on the borderline where LangCom may want to allow a language/dialect that does not have an ISO 639–3 code. So it is making a ''narrow'' provision to allow that ''in rare cases''. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 13:29, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
::: Also, in the particular case at hand: I went back to SIL's website this morning.
:::*''Ethnologue'' describes Montenegrin as an alternate name for Serbian. And based on all of the standard criteria (things like mutual intelligibility and such), there is every reason for ''Ethnologue'' to do so.
:::*I also checked whether there had ''ever'' been an application to give Montenegrin its own ISO 639–3 code, and the answer to that is "no". In the absence of such an application, and given the point above, there are no grounds to complain that SIL has acted in anything other than a reasonable and appropriate manner.
:::My conclusion is that until and unless Montenegro (or the Montenegrin language community) applies for a code,<ref>This would be an ISO 639'''–3''' code from SIL, not a 639'''–2''' code from the LiIbrary of Congress.</ref> it has no right to complain about ''not'' having a code, and no right to complain about not getting a Wikipedia of its own. And I'd be pretty surprised if LangCom would grant one of its exceptions in a case where there has never been an application for a code. After all, no application for a code can be taken as a tacit acceptance that Montenegrin is really a version of Serbian. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 16:15, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
::: {{ping|StevenJ81}}, the complaint about "fair" was not targeted at you. Most of the criticism on Wikipedia seems directed towards the idea of a standardized list of languages with immutable tags, which seems material. I don't mind Wikimedia feeling it needs final control on what languages it supports, but I do worry that very few of the controversial languages actually do reach a new group, instead of being a variant of a standardized language wherein all the speakers speak the standardized language.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:50, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
:Just wanted to chime in and state that I think the ISO rule is fair. The 639-3 category is comprehensive, so it's not a very demanding or exclusive criterion. It relies on a widely accepted standard to clear up the endless confusion over language and dialect. While I think other policy points are debatable, the ISO rule should remain in effect. [[User:Bigdan201|Xcalibur]] ([[User talk:Bigdan201|talk]]) 06:05, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Proposal to alter requisite for eligibility #4 ==
(redacted, see: [[Talk:Language committee/2017#Proposal to alter requisite for eligibility #4]])

== Better version of code requirement ==

:2. The language must have a valid ISO 639 (-1, -2, -3, -6), BCP 47, or LinguistList code.
:*''If there is no valid language code, you must obtain one. The Wikimedia Foundation does not seek to develop new linguistic entities; there must be an extensive body of works in that language or dialect. The information that distinguishes this language or dialect from another must be sufficient to convince SIL, IETF, or Linguist List to create a code.''

I feel that this allows more languages to be added. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 23:16, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

: I see you've renamed your account. Once again, there's absolutely no evidence that ISO 639-3 is not sufficient for Wikimedia's purposes; there have been but few languages really eligible but for an ISO 639-3 code, and those have managed to gain ISO 639-3 codes. This should be driven by at least one and preferably multiple projects whose main problem is the lack of an ISO 639-3 code.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 07:27, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

::I think you will find LangCom opposed to this idea. Consider the following, with respect to languages for which there is not a valid ISO 639–3 code:
::*All ISO 639–1 codes have corresponding ISO 639–2 codes.
::*All ISO 639–2 codes have corresponding ISO 639-3 codes, with the exception of those marked as [http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/scope.asp#C collections].
::*:By definition, "collections" are not languages, and not even macrolanguages. They are collections of languages. As such, they are not eligible for projects in their own right. Their constituent members certainly are. (There are some active projects with collection codes, but they are grandfathered. At some point we will try to move those to different language codes.)
::*:Some of the resulting ISO 639–3 codes become [http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/scope.asp#M macrolanguages]. That subject is a complex one that I will not elaborate on here. But either the macrolanguage itself or its constituents will always be eligible.
::*ISO 639–6 was withdrawn, so it really has no status. Moreover, certain 639–6 codes represented language variants that LangCom and WMF most assuredly do not want to allow routinely as separate projects, such as script variants and historic variants.
::*:Disclaimer: We would probably use the ISO 639–6 code for [[:en:Wawa language|Wawa]] if a project were ever created. But that's because its ISO 639–3 code is <code>www</code>, which would cause no end of problems to implement.
::*Under certain circumstances, LangCom is (in theory) willing to entertain a project for a language having no ISO 639–3 code, but having a BCP 47 code. See [[Language committee/Voting policy]]. Such languages would require a 2/3 affirmative vote to be allowed, and in practice such languages will not get the 2/3 vote unless they first try to get an ISO 639–3 code but fail.
::*Linguist List doesn't assume that everything that it tracks is a language.
::[[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 21:52, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

== Flaws of ISO-639-3 ==

*The three-letter codes themselves are problematic, because while officially arbitrary technical labels, they are often derived from mnemonic abbreviations for language names, some of which are pejorative. For example, Yemsa was assigned the code [jnj], from pejorative "Janejero". These codes may thus be considered offensive by native speakers, but codes in the standard, once assigned, cannot be changed.
*The administration of the standard is problematic because SIL is a Christian missionary organization with inadequate transparency and accountability. Decisions as to which proposals for new language codes should be approved are made internally at SIL, without very little outside input. LinguistList, the only people who SIL runs proposals by, have created their own extended version of ISO-639-3, and they're a public mailinglist instead of a secretive group trying to convert isolated tribes to Christianity, so why can't we use a combination of ISO-639, LinguistList, and IETF codes instead of just the ISO codes?
*Languages and dialects often cannot be rigorously distinguished.

[[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 01:08, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Language proposal policy

2018-06-24T01:08:42Z

Lojbanist: /* Flaws of ISO-639-3 */ new section

<div class="toccolours" style="float:right; text-align:center; margin-left:0.5em;">
'''Archives of this page'''
----
<div align="center"> [[Meta talk:Language proposal policy/Archives/2006|2006]] | [[Meta talk:Language proposal policy/Archives/2007|2007]] | [[Meta talk:Language proposal policy/Archives/2008|2008]] | [[Meta talk:Language proposal policy/Archives/2009|2009]] [[Meta talk:Language proposal policy/Archives/2010|2010–2011]] | [[Meta talk:Language proposal policy/Archives/2012|2012–2015]]
</div></div>




:''Please add new topics to the bottom of this page''

== Add Ilonggo and Maranaw wikipedia ==

Please add the Ilonggo and Maranaw wikipedia to be more language. Thanks! --[[User:Cyrus noto3at bulaga|Cyrus noto3at bulaga]] ([[User talk:Cyrus noto3at bulaga|talk]]) 04:18, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
:You need to make requests at [[RNL]], which I see you already started to do. --[[User:MF-Warburg|MF-W]] 14:52, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

== New project ==

Hello, can somebody create a wiktionary for the cu.wikipedia.org? There is non at that moment, only [https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wt/cu/%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0&redirectfrom=infopage that]. Thank you kindly! -- [[User:Vvs-dm|'''Vēnī‧vīdī‧scrīpsī''']][[User talk:Vvs-dm|''' [DM]''']] 19:47, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:"That" ([[:incubator:Wt/cu]]) is exactly where a Church Slavonic Wiktionary is supposed to be created. Feel free to contribute to it. People need to contribute to that test on Incubator first before there is any chance of an independent subdomain at {{nowrap|cu.wiktionary.org}}. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 20:06, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::Hello [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]], how do I need to contribute? I can't see where to create a page, since I'm directly redirected to the Wikimedia incubator. Greetings! -- [[User:Vvs-dm|'''Vēnī‧vīdī‧scrīpsī''']][[User talk:Vvs-dm|''' [DM]''']] 20:13, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::I do not have a great deal of time at the moment, and will be happy to elaborate more in a day or two. But to make a long story short:
::*On Incubator, you create a Wiktionary page in Church Slavonic the same way you would create a Wiktionary page on any other Wikipedia. The only difference is that the page name has to have the following prefix: '''Wt/cu/'''. So you can see that the main page of the Church Slavonic Test Wiktionary is called [[:incubator:Wt/cu/главьна страница|Wt/cu/главьна страница]], instead of just plain "главьна страница" (or, to use Russian Wiktionary as a comparitor, [[:ru:wikt:Заглавная страница|Заглавная страница]]).
::*Other than that, just continue to create pages. If you need additional information, you can find Wiktionary-specific help on most Wiktionary projects, and Incubator-specific help at [[:incubator:Help:FAQ]]. Good luck, and thanks for helping! [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 20:22, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::::I understand that, but what if I want to create some templates. Do I need to do the same? Because I will need them like every other Wiktionary. And what about MediaWiki:Common.css and .js? They don't exist either. Thank you for helping me. -- [[User:Vvs-dm|'''Vēnī‧vīdī‧scrīpsī''']][[User talk:Vvs-dm|''' [DM]''']] 20:28, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::You need to create or import templates for this test just as you would in any Wiktionary. (Remember to add attribution when you do that.) Templates would be named <code>'''Template:Wt/cu/''name'''''</code>. As far as Common.css and Common.js go, create them first in mainspace as <code>'''Wt/cu/Common.css'''</code> and <code>'''Wt/cu/Common.js'''</code>. Then ping me at my Incubator user page and I'll move them into MediaWiki namespace for you. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 15:30, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

==Question on own wikipedia because of cultural differences==

How do cultural differences and political hurdles affect the creation of a new wiki, let's say in the case of china and taiwan or ukraine and russia? Any ideas how this works out in practice? Would 2 versions be justified (one in a secure third country), if the political system would be a problem for people making edits? Would be interesting to know. —The preceding [[Help:Signature|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:104.168.144.189|104.168.144.189]] ([[User talk:104.168.144.189|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 11:38, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

==Austrian German==

A german editor in the german wikipedia recently [https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/IP-Sperre-Wikipedia-blockiert-zehntausende-anonyme-Oesterreicher-3660293.html blocked a whole ip-rage from Austria for anonymous edits]. While I understand the frustration with fake edits by anonymous accounts, this is not well received in Austria, which has a long and rather ambivalent history with germany. So there were talks of forking the german wikipedia. Some of it was fuelled by anger but there were also valid reasons because of different history, culture and langauge traditions that lead to a lot of senseless edit-wars that bind energy and effort and lead to such extreme measures. This could all be avoided with a seperate wiki where the different focus, terminology and language peculiarities could thrive next to each other (Bairisch, too):

* History Examples: In a lot of history articles persons are referred to as Germans and their language Deutsch which is a misrepresentation of fact that takes hours to edit out (born in city a, now part of country b, earlier part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire in a period where it was no longer part of Germany and so on... you get the picture...)
* Literature and Culture: Germany, Switzerland and Austria (+ Danube States) do have a distinctly different focus on literature (see the genesis and edit discussions over "German Literature" - a lot of energy that could have been better spent with 2 or 3 distinct versions). While Germany's literature was mainly in German, Austrian-Hungarian and Swiss literature was in all languages of the multi-ethnical empire / countries (Schmidt-Dengler et al). This gets sometimes edited out and leads to another sore point and the basis to more edit wars...
* Links: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Austrian_German&oldid=764754254#References_and_further_reading Austrian German]

So, my question: If there are cultural differences that lead to unnecessary edit wars over cultural differences - is a one language version enough - and if yes, is there any chance, an austrian german wikipedia could be created, as it is formally a distinct german based language (ISO and EU)? —The preceding [[Help:Signature|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:104.168.144.189|104.168.144.189]] ([[User talk:104.168.144.189|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 11:38, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

: Wikipedias must have separate languages. As [[w:Austrian German]] says, it is a dialect of German, and doesn't have the separate language code required to get its own Wikipedia.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:22, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

== Wikimedia main extensions group ==

For your information, recently the message group for the [[translatewiki:Special:MessageGroupStats/ext-0-wikimedia-main|main extensions used on Wikimedia]] had grown over 5500 messages, despite several rounds of cleanup. Explicitly wanted changes can be seen on the [[phabricator:diffusion/GTWN/history/master/groups/MediaWiki/WikimediaMainAgg.yaml|group definition file]], but big changes can happen inside extensions when developers add or remove messages. I'm now trying to make the group more human: [[gerrit:345293]], [[gerrit:345297]]. [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 10:09, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

== Why ISO discrimination? ==

I would like to ask why the languages without ISO codes are discriminated on Wikipedia, a place where in theory people take care of diversity and democracy... (The same policy applies to the musicians without the official CDs - are they worse than those who have sold millions of albums? Should they be banned and forgotten forever because they had no luck? Same situation actually.)
[[User:prz_rulez|prz_rulez]] ([[User talk:prz_rulez|talk]]) 14:19, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

: The "language" without an ISO code that you're talking about is Montenegrin, and Wikimedia has decided not to have multiple Wikipedias for the same language. We have left it up to ISO--in practice, the Library of Congress and the Summer Institute of Linguistics--to decide whether or not two dialects are the same language.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 20:06, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

:{{ping|prz_rulez}} You can see those examples of languages that without ISO codes:
{{hat|List of RFL requests inside}}
* [[Requests for new languages/Old Wikipedia]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Aeres]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Algero-Moroccan Arabic]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Alkaxus]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Anglish]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Antwerpish]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Appalachian English]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Aramaic of Jesus]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Arwi]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Australian English]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Baybayin Tagalog 2]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Bofonisk]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Braille]]
* Wikipedia Brazilian Portuguese [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Brazilian Portuguese 2|2]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Brazilian Portuguese 3|3]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Brazilian Portuguese 4|4]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia British English]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Chamyuet]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Common Czech]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Cyrillic English]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Cyrillic Polish]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Daylami]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Early Middle English (EMe)]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia English Braille]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia English-Nepali]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Eurofarsi]]
* Wikipedia European Portuguese [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia European Portuguese|1]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia European Portuguese 2|2]], [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia European Portuguese 3|3]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Frainc-comtou]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Galego-AGAL]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Galician-Portuguese]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Gorkha]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Hanja]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Hantec]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia High Norwegian]]
* [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Insubric]]
{{hab}}
... and others, how do those proposals senseful? Because we can wait for a code? Because they're just language? This rule is fair, as it can hold up vandalism such as from CasetteTapeMaster. --[[User:Liuxinyu970226|Liuxinyu970226]] ([[User talk:Liuxinyu970226|talk]]) 06:49, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

No, this rule isn't fair, it's never fair if a couple of people decides for one whole group. If it wasn't about very few enthusiasts, but some Trump-alike businessmen, we would for sure have the situations of briberies in order to get the ISO code.
But these enthusiasts often have no real power. Besides, that's sort of unfair to leave such a hard task resting on their shoulders, without any help. If Wikipedia, quote unquote "doesn't want to create new language entities", then why they can't simply call it a dialect and leave them doing their thing? I've always thought that it's in the interest of Wikipedia to have more articles in more and more languages - but it seems that I was wrong...
Oh, and justifying such discriminative practice due to a couple of trolling idiots is a really weak borscht.
[[User:prz_rulez|prz_rulez]] ([[User talk:prz_rulez|talk]]) 15:26, 02 August 2017 (UTC)

:I feel a need to step in here, which I was hoping not to do. The vandalism—the "trolling idiots"—really have nothing to do with the situation.
:Please read again [[LPP#Requisites for eligibility]]. The Wikimedia Foundation simply has not wanted to be in the business of determining what is a language, what is a dialect, and so forth. WMF has felt that the standards organizations—in practice LoC and SIL—are the ones with the expertise to determine this. Accordingly, WMF's basic attitude has been that if the standards organizations are willing to give a code, WMF will not argue the point; similar, if ISO is not willing to give a code, WMF is not planning to argue the point. It is up to individual language communities to make their cases to the standards organizations. Communities that are not able to get an ISO code are always able to create projects elsewhere on the web, such as at the [[:wikia:incubatorplus|Incubator Plus on Wikia]].
:You might then say, "Why does WMF feel this way? Why not just open this to anyone?" And the answer is that in the past, this became a free-for-all. And the result of that was that many of the wikis that were consequently created ended up as not representing meaningful, serious projects, but rather only silly or biased or vanity projects. Not all did, of course, but many did. So WMF decided not to allow that to continue, and instead decided that ISO 639 codes were the best reliable, third-party source for determination of what constitutes a language and what doesn't. And on the whole, that's probably accurate.
:All of the above having been said: LangCom realizes that there are cases on the edges where the ISO-code situation is perhaps <s>more</s> as much political <s>than</s> as scholarly, and where the ISO-code decisions <s>are therefore perhaps not entirely fair</s> are not entirely in alignment with how WMF would ideally define languages for its own purposes. Accordingly, LangCom is discussing a policy change that will be ''a little'' more open than this. Now, until and unless that policy change is adopted, I do not want to say more. I will say that the presumption will remain that ISO-code decisions are accurate; the bar for a language community without its own ISO 639–3 code is going to be quite high to get an approval. But in certain cases it will be allowed.
:As far as I'm concerned, [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Montenegrin 5]] can stay in place until a decision is made about this new policy, and then a decision is made on whether Montenegrin qualifies under the new policy. My guess is that it will not:
:*At the moment it will be considered a variety of Serbian, and one where the mutual intelligibility is close to 100%
:*The fact that ISO did decide that Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian are separate languages, yet doesn't recognize Montenegrin as one, is going to be a negative factor
:*:Has the Montenegrin community, or preferably the government of Montenegro, ever formally petitioned for a language code? (On SIL's website, I couldn't find a formal attempt to get Montenegrin a code.) Before you start complaining about the fact that Montenegrin has no code, do that first. Really. Don't write letters to the Library of Congress, make a formal submission.
:But I could be wrong about all this, and the situation could certainly change over time. So I suggest that [[User:prz_rulez]] be patient, and everyone else not be so accusatory, and let's see how this evolves over time. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 16:23, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
::I will add: If there is an active code request at SIL—and you'll have to show some documentation of it—we will allow you to have a test at Incubator, even if you do not have a language code. The risk, of course, is that if the code request is rejected, we will delete the Incubator test (moving it to Incubator Plus or to any other place of your choice). The place to make such a request is [[:incubator:I:RST|I:RST]]. But I will be the deciding administrator there, and I will say no unless you can show that there is a formal code request open at SIL. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 19:17, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
: The word "fair", in English, does not mean "you get what you want". I'm glad you can attack the reputations of people who have spent their lives trying to document rare dying languages because their studies have led them to conclude that Montenegrin is a dialect of Serbian.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 07:28, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Prosfilaes}} Perhaps the word "fair" wasn't quite right there; I tried to rephrase above. If that's still not quite right, please understand the following:
:: My intention was not in the least to attack anyone's reputation—I admire SIL's work greatly. But it's no secret that SIL's processes are not always transparent, and it's certainly clear that there are cases on the boundary that could legitimately go either way. If you look at [[:en:ISO 639-3#Criticism|ISO 639–3 § Criticism]], you will see that there are expert linguists (which I am not) that express criticism of the 639–3 process. So the whole point here is that while in general everyone is willing to rely on SIL and ISO 639–3—even happy to do so—there may be a few cases right on the borderline where LangCom may want to allow a language/dialect that does not have an ISO 639–3 code. So it is making a ''narrow'' provision to allow that ''in rare cases''. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 13:29, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
::: Also, in the particular case at hand: I went back to SIL's website this morning.
:::*''Ethnologue'' describes Montenegrin as an alternate name for Serbian. And based on all of the standard criteria (things like mutual intelligibility and such), there is every reason for ''Ethnologue'' to do so.
:::*I also checked whether there had ''ever'' been an application to give Montenegrin its own ISO 639–3 code, and the answer to that is "no". In the absence of such an application, and given the point above, there are no grounds to complain that SIL has acted in anything other than a reasonable and appropriate manner.
:::My conclusion is that until and unless Montenegro (or the Montenegrin language community) applies for a code,<ref>This would be an ISO 639'''–3''' code from SIL, not a 639'''–2''' code from the LiIbrary of Congress.</ref> it has no right to complain about ''not'' having a code, and no right to complain about not getting a Wikipedia of its own. And I'd be pretty surprised if LangCom would grant one of its exceptions in a case where there has never been an application for a code. After all, no application for a code can be taken as a tacit acceptance that Montenegrin is really a version of Serbian. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 16:15, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
::: {{ping|StevenJ81}}, the complaint about "fair" was not targeted at you. Most of the criticism on Wikipedia seems directed towards the idea of a standardized list of languages with immutable tags, which seems material. I don't mind Wikimedia feeling it needs final control on what languages it supports, but I do worry that very few of the controversial languages actually do reach a new group, instead of being a variant of a standardized language wherein all the speakers speak the standardized language.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:50, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
:Just wanted to chime in and state that I think the ISO rule is fair. The 639-3 category is comprehensive, so it's not a very demanding or exclusive criterion. It relies on a widely accepted standard to clear up the endless confusion over language and dialect. While I think other policy points are debatable, the ISO rule should remain in effect. [[User:Bigdan201|Xcalibur]] ([[User talk:Bigdan201|talk]]) 06:05, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Proposal to alter requisite for eligibility #4 ==
(redacted, see: [[Talk:Language committee/2017#Proposal to alter requisite for eligibility #4]])

== Better version of code requirement ==

:2. The language must have a valid ISO 639 (-1, -2, -3, -6), BCP 47, or LinguistList code.
:*''If there is no valid language code, you must obtain one. The Wikimedia Foundation does not seek to develop new linguistic entities; there must be an extensive body of works in that language or dialect. The information that distinguishes this language or dialect from another must be sufficient to convince SIL, IETF, or Linguist List to create a code.''

I feel that this allows more languages to be added. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 23:16, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

: I see you've renamed your account. Once again, there's absolutely no evidence that ISO 639-3 is not sufficient for Wikimedia's purposes; there have been but few languages really eligible but for an ISO 639-3 code, and those have managed to gain ISO 639-3 codes. This should be driven by at least one and preferably multiple projects whose main problem is the lack of an ISO 639-3 code.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 07:27, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

::I think you will find LangCom opposed to this idea. Consider the following, with respect to languages for which there is not a valid ISO 639–3 code:
::*All ISO 639–1 codes have corresponding ISO 639–2 codes.
::*All ISO 639–2 codes have corresponding ISO 639-3 codes, with the exception of those marked as [http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/scope.asp#C collections].
::*:By definition, "collections" are not languages, and not even macrolanguages. They are collections of languages. As such, they are not eligible for projects in their own right. Their constituent members certainly are. (There are some active projects with collection codes, but they are grandfathered. At some point we will try to move those to different language codes.)
::*:Some of the resulting ISO 639–3 codes become [http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/scope.asp#M macrolanguages]. That subject is a complex one that I will not elaborate on here. But either the macrolanguage itself or its constituents will always be eligible.
::*ISO 639–6 was withdrawn, so it really has no status. Moreover, certain 639–6 codes represented language variants that LangCom and WMF most assuredly do not want to allow routinely as separate projects, such as script variants and historic variants.
::*:Disclaimer: We would probably use the ISO 639–6 code for [[:en:Wawa language|Wawa]] if a project were ever created. But that's because its ISO 639–3 code is <code>www</code>, which would cause no end of problems to implement.
::*Under certain circumstances, LangCom is (in theory) willing to entertain a project for a language having no ISO 639–3 code, but having a BCP 47 code. See [[Language committee/Voting policy]]. Such languages would require a 2/3 affirmative vote to be allowed, and in practice such languages will not get the 2/3 vote unless they first try to get an ISO 639–3 code but fail.
::*Linguist List doesn't assume that everything that it tracks is a language.
::[[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 21:52, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

== Flaws of ISO-639-3 ==

*The three-letter codes themselves are problematic, because while officially arbitrary technical labels, they are often derived from mnemonic abbreviations for language names, some of which are pejorative. For example, Yemsa was assigned the code [jnj], from pejorative "Janejero". These codes may thus be considered offensive by native speakers, but codes in the standard, once assigned, cannot be changed.
*The administration of the standard is problematic because SIL is a Christian missionary organization with inadequate transparency and accountability. Decisions as to which proposals for new language codes should be approved are made internally at SIL, without any outside input.
*Languages and dialects often cannot be rigorously distinguished.

[[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 01:08, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Simple English Wikipedia (3)

2018-06-20T22:53:46Z

Lojbanist: /* Survey */

History of the Klingon Wikipedia

2018-06-17T21:50:30Z

Lojbanist:

<languages/>
<translate>
A [[en:Klingon language|Klingon language]] edition of Wikipedia was created in June 2004 and was permanently locked in August 2005. It remains in editable form offsite at [[wikiasite:klingon|klingon.wikia.com]] where it continues to grow.

== Decision to create == 


The Klingon Wikipedia was created at a time when there was explosive growth in Wikipedias in the various languages of the world. Criteria for creation of new language editions of Wikipedia were then poorly defined and there was little process in place for determining which requests would be acted upon. This was also a time when other sister projects, such as Commons, Wikisource (then Project Sourceberg) and Wikinews were being established.

== Problems == 


The existence of the Klingon project was divisive and led to entrenched debates over fairness and parity with other languages, and particularly with other constructed languages. There are several dozen constructed languages that have an equally strong case for the existence of a Wikipedia, depending on the criteria used.


Among the problems was the existence of interwiki links from the main page and other articles, which some Wikipedians felt detracted from the scholarly appearance of the project. Ultimately, the interwiki links from other languages to Klingon were dropped, long before the Klingon Wikipedia was locked.


The project never attracted a community, in part because the fictional origin of the language means that there are no real-world speakers in existence who could form a community. Work was limited by the fact that the Klingon vocabulary is closed and incomplete, leaving no way to discuss many important topics without circumlocutions. There was ongoing discussion of the future of the project at meta, on mailing lists, and during board meetings.

== Locking == 


In August 2005, [[Jimbo Wales]] made a decision to [[mailarchive:wikipedia-l/2005-August/023607.html|lock the Klingon Wiki permanently]]. While Jimbo has never publicly stated his exact rationale for closing the wiki, the maturation of Wikipedia and its sister projects as a whole into a vital worldwide resource meant that there was little incentive to keep a niche language that was not intended to be seriously used. Other constructed languages such as [[w:en:Toki Pona|the Toki Pona language]] were closed at about the same time (although the [[wikiasite:tokipona|Toki Pona Wikipedia]], like the [[wikiasite:klingon|Klingon Wikipedia]], was ultimately hosted at Wikia due to the presence of a strong community). At present, the constructed languages for which Wikipedias exist are [[w:eo:Ĉefpaĝo|Esperanto]], [[w:io:Frontispico|Ido]], [[w:ia:Wikipedia:Pagina principal|Interlingua]], [[w:ie:Principal págine|Interlingue]] (Occidental), [[w:lfn:|Elefen]], [[w:jbo:ralju ckupau|Lojban]], [[w:vo:Cifapad|Volapük]] and [[w:nov:Chefi pagine|Novial]]. All of these have some speakers; the first six, and in particular Esperanto, have a community of speakers of notable size. Esperanto-speaking Wikimedians in 2012 even formed a Wikimedia User Group, [[Esperanto kaj Libera Scio]].

==See also== 


{{user language|tlh|4}}
{{user language|tlh|3}}
{{user language|tlh|2}}
{{user language|tlh|1}}
* [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Klingon Wiktionary]] (2008)
* [[Requests for new languages/Wiktionary Klingon]] (2013)
* [[incubator:Wp/tlh]]
* [[incubator:Wt/tlh]]
* [[Artificial languages]]
* [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Volapük Wikipedia|Proposal for the closure of Volapük Wikipedia]]
* [[:Category:Requests for new languages (constructed)|Requests for new wikis in constructed languages]]
* [[Template:User language/tlh]]
* [[:Category:User tlh]]
</translate>

[[Category:Wikipedia history{{#translation:}}]]
[[Category:Artificial languages{{#translation:}}]]

Template:Ilm

2018-06-13T02:19:02Z

Lojbanist:

'''[[m:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|Meta]]''' | [[commons:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|Commons]] | [[wikibooks:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|English Wikibooks]] | [[wikiquote:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|English Wikiquote]] | [[wiktionary:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|English Wiktionary]] | [[m:wikisource:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|English Wikisource]] 
'''Wikipedia:''' [[de:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|Deutsch]] | [[en:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|English]] |
[[es:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|Español]] | [[fr:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|Français ]] |
[[ja:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|日本語]] | [[nl:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|Nederlands]] | [[pl:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|Polski]] | [[ru:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|Русский]] | [[zh:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|中文]] | [[jbo:{{{{{subst|}}}SUBJECTSPACE}}:{{{{{subst|}}}PAGENAME}}|jbobau]]<noinclude>[[Category:Miscellaneous templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]</noinclude>

This [[help:system message|system message]] on this site, depending on the [[Help:System message|user-specified interface language]]:

*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}|en]] (English): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/af|af]] (Afrikaans / Afrikaans): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/af}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/ar|ar]] (العربية/Arabic): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/ar}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/bg|bg]] (Bulgarian / Български): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/bg}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/da|da]] (Danish / Dansk): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/da}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/de|de]] (German / Deutsch): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/de}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/eo|eo]] (Esperanto / Esperanto): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/eo}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/es|es]] (Spanish / Español): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/es}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/eu|eu]] (Basque / Euskara): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/eu}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/fr|fr]] (French / Français): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/fr}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/fy|fy]] (West Frisian / Frysk): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/fy}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/ia|ia]] (Interlingua): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/ia}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/it|it]] (Italian / Italiano): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/it}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/la|la]] (Latin / Latina): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/la}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/li|li]] (Limburgian / Limburgs): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/li}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/nl|nl]] (Dutch / Nederlands): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/nl}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/no|no]] (Norwegian / ‪Norsk (bokmål)‬): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/no}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/pl|pl]] (Polish / Polski): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/pl}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/pt|pt]] (Portuguese / Português): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/pt}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/ru|ru]] (Russian / Русский): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/ru}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/sv|sv]] (Swedish / Svenska): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/sv}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/ta|ta]] (Tamil / தமிழ்): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/ta}}
*[[mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/jbo|jbo]] (Lojban / jbobau): {{msgnw:mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}/jbo}}

Maybe exists another translations — see autogenerated language list below:
{{languages|mediawiki:{{PAGENAME}}}}

[http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixindex&namespace=8&prefix={{PAGENAMEE}} pages in the MediaWiki namespace regarding this message]

[http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translations/MediaWiki:{{PAGENAMEE}} translations in translatewiki regarding this message]<noinclude>{{documentation}}</noinclude>

Help talk:How to start a new Wikipedia

2018-05-21T21:53:44Z

Lojbanist: /* This may be old... */ new section

''Please see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Wikipedia:Create_a_new_language_in_Wikipedia&action=history Page history] at the English Wikipedia for attribution of authors prior to 4 April 2004.''
----
=== ===
There is discussion related to this page at the English Wikipedia. See [[en:Wikipedia talk:Create a new language in Wikipedia]].

----

This page still includes a reference to Intlwiki-l, a now defunct list. But I forgot where the place was to ask for a new wikipedia. Foundation-l? Wikipedia-l? Wikitech-l? Another page on meta? Hope someone could update. [[User:Tomos|Tomos]] 20:06, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

:Probably either Wikipedia-l, or Wikitech-l. [[User:Dori|Dori]] | [[User talk:Dori|Talk]] 20:16, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

::Thanks. I wanted that info. also for a related page on japanese wikipedia. :) [[User:Tomos|Tomos]] 20:49, 1 May 2004 (UTC)
----
Starting a new community, or sub-community can be an important part of the Wikipedia culture. Within one of the mainstream Wikipedias there will gradually evolve a sense of community, yet there may be scope for sub-communities, which may eventually break off to form their own new community.

An example might be the native American communities in the USA, including [[w:Pueblo|Pueblo]] and [[w:Navajo|Navajo]] indian speakers. There are active programmes in the US which encourage students to participate in activities using the languages of their forefathers.

It would not be unreasonable, in the first instance, for such students, and their teachers, to create references to objects described in their own languages in the main English Wikipedia. This way they could use all the features of the larger system, without having to start up and maintain their own software, and to have a separate system.

As time moves on, there is the possibility that a sufficiently large community of such users might be built up, and at that time it would be reasonable, if resources permitted, to migrate articles from the English Wikipedia to other new language Wikipedias. Whether a decision would then be made to remove articles from the English version would depend on usage. There could be a case for retaining all or some articles, or reformatting articles to be of interest to a wider audience, with cross links to articles in the newly formed Wikipedias. -- [[User:195.137.39.195|195.137.39.195]] 11:38, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)
:Excellent version! --[[User:68.215.241.86|68.215.241.86]] 14:08, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

== Stuck on the main page ==

The 'set up a main page' section seems a bit insufficient and confusing -- # 3.1 Set Main Page -- am trying to do something for Konkani (kok). -- [[User:59.95.18.88|59.95.18.88]] 19:02, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

== Sardu ==

I would to create a wikipedia section whit sardu lenguage ( sardinian lenguage), i read the guidelines and i build the home page, then i traduce the guidelines to traduce in my lenguage. But i have a problem how can i insert a section in leguages linst, i must to modify the lenguages list or i tell you when i finish to traduce and you add my lenguages ?--[[User:Socrate04|Socrate04]] 17:13, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Now i traduce in sardu (sardinin lenguage) the page, when i finish i tell you that i have complete the traduction.--[[User:Socrate04|Socrate04]] 17:13, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

==How to update Language.php?==

Is there any way to replace Language.php file on existing Wikipedia by administrator? [[be:|Belarusian Wikipedia]] already heavily rely on English for namespaces. I want to replace them with Belarusian ones step by step (Template, Image, Category). And I want to do so myself to have possibility of revert to previous version. Thank you for advice. Please write me on [[be:User:EugeneZelenko]] or [[en:User:EugeneZelenko]].

:Best to update the LanguageXX.php file here on meta and then report it "a bug" at http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ [[User:Guaka|Guaka]] 23:50, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

== translating keywords ==

Hi,

I have partially translated the system messages for the GD wikipedia, but am wondering now, how I go about translating the keywords used in articles (such as "category" and "image"). Is this done by modiying the php file? Sorry for posting this question here - I couldn't find any documentation explicitly addressing this. [[User:Eoghan|Eoghan]] 20:55, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

== Elvish languages ==

I've noticed that Wikipedia has a Klingon Wikipedia. Can someone make an Elvish Wikipedia? I know that two elven languages (Eldar and Sindarin) were created by J.R.R. Tolkien. They are much more complex and completed than Klingon. I would create an Elvish Wikipedia myself, but I do not know the two languages.--[[User:JarlaxleArtemis|JarlaxleArtemis]] 03:28, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

That would be EXCELLENT!!
[[User:Cjinaz|Cjinaz]] 17:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

==Box to insert special characters==
I'd like to add a box to insert special characters during editing. How to do that? It would be cool to have this information added to this article. [[User:Guaka|Guaka]] 23:50, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

==My own language==
Can it be my own, artificial language?
[[pl:Wikipedysta:Mikiapole3|mikiapole3]] 17:14, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Anybody have an answer to this? I'm rather curious myself. I'd vote in favor of yes if only because many artificial languages do have communities of speakers. Via the internet I have connection with two other conlangers, one of whom has a language with a small community of speakers.

Of course, one could make the argument that there is no reason to use conlangs when plenty of real languages are in need of attention. Could counter that with the point that conlags are often easy to learn than natural languages (fewer irregulars, more logical syntax) and thus more attractive to some.

Regardless, I think a good point could be made for auxlangs, such as the Simple Wikipedia.

But I muse, I vote in favor of allowing it. If the conlang has no speakers it'll make itself apparent. Since I have no authority whatsoever though. . . --Quintucket(on Wikipedia { I think I have a Wikimedia account but I've never used it}) 10:41 24 March 2005 (EST)

==Plat-Haags==

Can I start a Wikipedia in [[Plat-Haags]]?

== Simple Japanese ==

I would like to start a wikipedia in simple japanese, that is to say, like simple english, easy to understand to foreigners. simple japanese would use romaji exclusively instead of katakana, hiragana and kanji. it could be choroi.wikipedia.org as choroi means simple (I think) in japanese. --[[User:172.164.147.201|172.164.147.201]] 08:33, 5 November 2005 (UTC) TBH from en.wikipedia.org
* Hello TBH! Wikipedias in new languages can be requested at [[Requests for new languages]]. (However, the community is currently for the most part not in favor of creating more "simple" editions and there is even talk of closing down the Simple English Wikipedia) [[User:Arbeo|Arbeo]] 14:34, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
*Hi! When I saw the headline, it interested me. However, I thought you were talking about a Wikipedia purely made up of furigana, rather than including any kanji. Nevertheless, I agree with what you're saying, and I think both a Furigana (フリガナ) version and a Rōmaji version of Wikipedia should exist.

== Sindhi ==

Hi, My name is Ali Hassan and I want to start a sindhi wikipedia. I have read the set up language information but I have a problem. The thing is one already exists but in Devanagri alphabet. I want to create mine for the people that use the Arabic alphabet for Sindhi. I do not want to create a joint devanagri/arabic site as that would be useless and irritating. Kashmiri and Punjabi currently use two alphabets and its very frustrating to click on an article and to recieve it in an alphabet that you do not understand. I want to start a seperate Sindhi Wikipedia but as there is already a Sindhi page I am confused as to what to do. Can we have both Wikipedia's called Sindhi and then have the name in the appropriate alphabet written behind it? As they are both legitimate forms of the language I cannot think of a fairer way to handle this but any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

== Wikipedia in Odd Languages ==

Did you know that google has wierd languages that you can view the page in, for example, Pig Latin, Elmer Fudd, and "Bork! Bork! Bork!" You think we might want to make wikipedias in some of these languages for entertainment only? After all, google does it.

== Developer Attention? ==

The language Wikipedia process seems to have broken down somewhat—there is a queue of languages approved and waiting to be made at [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages Approved requests for new languages] (and there has been for some time), but no Developer has come around at all. About a dozen languages have been approved for creation, and the Norman test-Wiki has well over 100 articles already (more than nearly half of our "real" Wikipedias—and over 85% of the Norman articles have accompanying illustrations). How can we get these Wikipedias created? [[User:Jade Knight|Jade Knight]] 06:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
:This was taken care of, with much appreciation (the Norman Wikipedia now has nearly 300 articles). [[User:Jade Knight|The Jade Knight]] 08:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

== French translation / Traduction en français ==

Could we get someone to translate this page into French?

Est-ce qu'il y a quelqu'un qui peut traduire cette page en français? [[User:Jade Knight|The Jade Knight]] 09:00, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

:Nearly complete version of this page in French [[User:Keitei/How to start a new Wikipedia|here]]. It'll be moved as soon as it is done. --[[User:Keitei|Keitei]] 07:23, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to start a wiki for something other than a language ==

I want to start a wikipedia for open source collegiate related projects. I'm sort of starting it already particular domain [[http://www.projectsforengineers.com here]] but I really would like to get it on [[http://www.wikiversity.com wikiversity.com]] but it is "taken" by the wikimedia foundation. Would it be possible to start a wiki there?

One important thing for this wiki is to allow lots of different kinds of file uploads, so maintaining that would be a pain, but it's kind of neccessary to accomplish the goal... Mines only starting and I have to go in there and put in new file types to allow for the images every time a new type of program is used by the engineering dept at my school, (ex .vi for LabView).

== Wikipedia in Latin or Classic Greek ==
See above. I think that this would be rather funny. I am a classics student and I always get annoyed with people who say that there is no reason to learn Classic Greek or Latin. But if we create a Wikipedia in one of these languages and put stuff in it, all classics students can hold stuff over the heads of people who don't take these language. Mwa ha ha ha ha ha...
:Uh... there already is one. http://la.wikipedia.org/ – [[User:Gurch|Gurch]] 14:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

*The reason Wikimedia has "taken" that domain name is because that is what our new project for open-source learning materials, [http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Main_Page Wikiversity], is called. The URL just doesn't redirect to wikiversity.org yet. Your website's materials would seem to be a perfect fit for Wikiversity, would you consider working on the [http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/School:Engineering Engineering School]? --[[User:Kwekubo|Kwekubo]] 19:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

== [[Pinyin]] [[Wikipedia]]? ==

I don't speak any Mandarin, heck, I'm not even Chinese, but I'm just making a suggestion. I think a [[Pinyin]] [[Wikipedia]] would be a great idea. What about you?

== Translating the namespace names ==

How are namespace names like Talk:, User: etc being localised? Not through [[Special:Allmessages]], as I suppose? --[[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]] 18:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

:They are also in the file like [http://svn.wikimedia.org/doc/MessagesDe_8php-source.html].--[[User:Patrick|Patrick]] 03:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

== [[Help:How_to_start_a_new_Wikipedia#Translate_the_interface]] ==

''To translate the [[wikt:interface|interface]] you must prepare a file languages/Messages''languagecode''.php with [[Help:system messages|system messages]], namespace names, and a few other things''

Two questions that need to be answered would be: Where do I get it? And, when I'm done, where do I send it? --[[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]] 22:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

:I have added that, as far as I know it.--[[User:Patrick|Patrick]] 03:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

== Question? ==

how could i start an english wikipedia but called EntoWiki regarding Entomology?
[[User:Bjaco18|Bjaco18]] 20:56, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
:You could create your own wiki site. There are several free wikis - a list is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wiki_farms#General here]. Or you could make and host one yourself. You might like [[w:MediaWiki|MediaWiki]], which is what Wikimedia is powered by. '''[[User:Majorly|Majorly]]''' ''[[User talk:Majorly|talk]]'' 21:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

== Getic Language ==

i want to add the '''Getic''' language (limba '''dxetq''') to Wikipedia. Can someone help me?

You can find more information about the Getic language at the following links:

[http://sites.google.com/site/dxetika]

[http://groups.google.ro/group/dxetika?hl=ro]

:Please see the instructions at [[Language subcommittee/Handbook (requesters)]] if you think this language meets the [[Meta:Language proposal policy|Language proposal policy]]. [[User:Angela|Angela]] 12:18, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

== This may be old... ==

...but I feel that some modernized version of this (such as "ask devs on Phabricator and they'll set it up ASAP") would be easier than going through Incubator/Langcom/Translatewiki hell for '''months to years'''. LFN was screwed bigtime; first forced onto Wikia, then having to go through the hell that is the SIL ISO code process, then having to use a "test-project" on Incubator for about a year, then having to go through Translatewiki for localization, then having to wait months for the actual MediaWiki to be created after LangCom approved it. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 21:53, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Wikihost

2018-05-20T22:22:07Z

Lojbanist:

{{New sister project proposal
| status = discussion
| project_name = Wikihost
| project_description = Wiki farm where anyone can create their own public wiki.
| multilingual_wiki = Infinite possibilities for wikis, but one English "central" wiki located at the "www" subdomain.
| multilingual = This is a wiki farm, so it would ideally support wiki creation in all languages included in the MW software (including Kotava and American Sign Language.) However, it would probably be best to start with a certain number of "basic" languages (en, de, fr, es, pt, eo, zh, ja, ru, ar, he, ko) and roll out other languages later.
| technical_reqs = Same extensions as the WMF projects would be installed by default on new wikis.
| url = https://www.wikihost.org
| participants = [[User:KATMAKROFAN|KATMAKROFAN]] ([[User talk:KATMAKROFAN|talk]]) 03:15, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
}}
Wikihost is a proposal for a nonprofit "Wikia-killer" MediaWiki-based wiki farm. The main feature that would distinguish Wikihost from other MW wiki farms (Wikia, Shoutwiki, Miraheze, etc.) is that it would allow the wiki founder (e.g. the person who entered the subdomain, wiki name, etc. into the "create a new wiki" form) to edit the MediaWiki settings from a special page. Wikihost will not host advertising (the TOU would not allow wiki owners to install advertising extensions) and would be run by a separate non-profit, the Wikihost Foundation (WHF). The WMF and WHF would work together: they would share a software development team and use the same server infrastructure. However, the two non-profits would have separate boards of trustees, headquarters, etc. Wikia/Fandom is the current front-runner of wiki farms, but suffers from monetization in the form of advertising and unwanted features such as "Discussions" and "Fandom News and Stories". [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 22:18, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Wikihost

2018-05-20T22:18:11Z

Lojbanist:

{{New sister project proposal
| status = discussion
| project_name = Wikihost
| project_description = Wiki farm where anyone can create their own public wiki.
| multilingual_wiki = Infinite possibilities for wikis, but one English "central" wiki located at the "www" subdomain.
| multilingual = This is a wiki farm, so it would support wiki creation in all languages included in the MW software (including Kotava and American Sign Language.)
| technical_reqs = Same extensions as the WMF projects would be installed by default on new wikis.
| url = https://www.wikihost.org
| participants = [[User:KATMAKROFAN|KATMAKROFAN]] ([[User talk:KATMAKROFAN|talk]]) 03:15, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
}}
Wikihost is a proposal for a nonprofit "Wikia-killer" MediaWiki-based wiki farm. The main feature that would distinguish Wikihost from other MW wiki farms (Wikia, Shoutwiki, Miraheze, etc.) is that it would allow the wiki founder (e.g. the person who entered the subdomain, wiki name, etc. into the "create a new wiki" form) to edit the MediaWiki settings from a special page. Wikihost will not host advertising (the TOU would not allow wiki owners to install advertising extensions) and would be run by a separate non-profit, the Wikihost Foundation (WHF). The WMF and WHF would work together: they would share a software development team and use the same server infrastructure. However, the two non-profits would have separate boards of trustees, headquarters, etc. Wikia/Fandom is the current front-runner of wiki farms, but suffers from monetization in the form of advertising and unwanted features such as "Discussions" and "Fandom News and Stories". [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 22:18, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Wikiville

2018-05-20T22:14:17Z

Lojbanist: /* People interested */

{{New sister project proposal
| status = discussion
| project_name = Wikiville
| tagline =
| project_description = It will be a project similar to Wikicities -> Wikia -> Fandom, and the scope will be exactly the same as a open to all collaborative wikifarm that allow people to write whatever they want.

Previously, many proposals that are deemed not in line with goal and vision of existing WMF projects and not in line with current WMF policies are sent to other wikifarms, mostly to wikia, including content that can be valuable knowledge. However since Wikia is a for-profit enterprise, over the years it have been slowly transforming its role to become social network oriented, as reflected in its change in name, and also the more entertainment-oriented potentially-unwanted content across its site. As a for-profit enterprise, Wikia is also reducing its dependency on the Mediawiki platform, stopped updating its mediawiki installlation and inventing a lot of its own tool to proprietarily establish its own ecosystem. On the other hand, other wikifarms lack the necessary fame to centralize content creator around the world. Therefore, it will be beneficial to the world if WMF can help establish a wikifarm that will remain as a wikifarm to the world in foreseeable future to host different kind of content with an updated and compatible version of Mediawiki, and all those valuable knowledge that might not fit in other existing WMF projects can also be keep in such system.

Because it may not be directly obvious that that what people add into such kind of wikifarm project will fit in the WMF's vision to host the knowledge of the world, I would suggest such project should be establish in a way that would be financially independent despite being monitored by WMF. This way if any revenue can be stem from such project it can also be used to boost the development of other WMF projects.
| multilingual_wiki = Dependent on users of each "ville"
| multilingual = Dependent on users of each "ville"
| technical_reqs = N/A
| url = A new .com url.
| logo =
| more_settings =
| development_wiki = Just like Wikia
| participants =
}}



==Proposed by==

[[User:C933103|C933103]]

==Alternative names==


==Related projects/proposals==

Fandom, wikispaces, wikidot, atwiki(Japanese), wikiwiki(Japanese), Joyme(Chinese)

==Domain names==


==Mailing list links==


==Demos==


==People interested==

*'''Support/Pour/mi tugni''': My vision of this would be hosted by a separate non-profit organization and use a separate SUL system, but would share the MediaWiki public alpha versions used by the WMF, as well as the dev team. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 22:14, 20 May 2018 (UTC)


[[Category:Proposed projects]]

Talk:MediaWiki 2.0

2018-05-07T02:56:05Z

Lojbanist:

==An idea==
If this does get released (which is unlikely, unless we decide that almost anything would sound better than "MW 1.100"), it should be called "MediaWiki2" (in English, pronounced "MediaWiki squared", "MediaWiki to the power of two", or just "MediaWiki two"). The sub-version numbering could be done in a matter similar to that of X11, as in "MediaWiki2 Release 24.7" (or for the public alpha builds used on the Wikimedia wikis, "MediaWiki2 Release 33.1-wmf.3"); this could be abbreviated to "MW2R24.7" (without the superscript). [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 21:27, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Talk:MediaWiki 2.0

2018-05-06T21:27:16Z

Lojbanist: Created page with "==An idea== If this does get released (which is unlikely, unless we decide that almost anything would sound better than "MW 1.100"), it should be called "MediaWiki2..."

==An idea==
If this does get released (which is unlikely, unless we decide that almost anything would sound better than "MW 1.100"), it should be called "MediaWiki2" (in English, pronounced "MediaWiki squared", "MediaWiki to the power of two", or just "MediaWiki two"). The sub-version numbering could be done in a matter similar to that of X11, as in "MediaWiki2 Release 24.7" (or for the public alpha builds used on the Wikimedia wikis, "MediaWiki2 Release 25.0-wmf.2"); this could be abbreviated to "MW2R24.7" (without the superscript). [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 21:27, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

조선말

2018-05-04T04:13:42Z

Lojbanist:

{{delete|1=Very few people in North Korea have access to outside Internet (such as Wikimedia projects), and if reunification happens, then ko-KP will probably be gradually replaced by ko-KR.}}
{{Main Page/ko-kp}}
__NOTOC__
__NOEDITSECTION__

Slogans

2018-04-25T23:28:28Z

Lojbanist: /* J */

[[Category:Communications committee]]
<div style="clear: right; float: right;">__TOC__</div>This is a list of [[wikimedia:|Wikimedia Foundation]] projects' logos, descriptions, and slogans. It is not the [[Complete list of Wikimedia projects]] nor the [[Sites using MediaWiki|list of sites using MediaWiki]] software.

Each project selects a logo, and many language editions develop language-specific versions these logos. Likewise, they develop descriptions of what the project is about, and slogans which they find most descriptive of their efforts. This page collects these official decisions to make it easier for the maintenance of Sister project templates across the Wikimedia Foundation projects.

'''Project pages on MetaWiki:'''

[[Wikimedia]] | [[Meta]] | [[Wikibooks]] | [[WikiCommons]] | [[Wikijunior]] | [[Wikinews]] | [[Wikipedia]] | [[Wikiquote]] | [[Wiktionary]] | [[Wikisource]] | [[Wikispecies]]

== Entries ==

This listing is alphabetical by language code used. Under each language, please create a table which lists the following information:
# The Wikimedia Foundation project name: Wikibooks, Wikinews, Wikipedia, Wikiquote, Wikisource, Wikispecies, etc.
# A link to the logo used on that language project. Use <nowiki>[[:Image:Filename.ext]]</nowiki>.
# The slogan as used by that language project. This includes preferred capitalization/punctuation in languages which support capitalization and punctuation.
# The description as preferred by that language project.

Here is wiki-syntax table example:

<pre>
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Wikipedia
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-en.png]]
| The Free Encyclopedia
| free encyclopedia
|}
</pre>

and what it produces:

{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Wikipedia
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-en.png]]
| The Free Encyclopedia
| free encyclopedia
|}

== A ==
=== aa Afar Afaraf ===

=== ab Abkhaz Аҧсуа ===

=== af Afrikaans ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| [//af.wikibooks.org Wikibooks]
| [[:Image:Wikibooks-logo-en.png]]
| Dink vry. Leer vry.
| Die WikiBoeke webwerf met 'n vrye versameling boeke.

|-
| [//af.wikipedia.org Wikipedia]
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-af.png]]
| Die vrye ensiklopedie
| Die vrye ensiklopedie
|-
| [//af.wikiquote.org Wikiquote]
| [[:Image:Wikiquote-logo-en.png]]
| 'n Vrye versameling aanhalings
| Die WikiAanhalings webwerf met 'n vrye versameling aanhalings
|-

|-
| [//af.wiktionary.org Wiktionary]
| [[:Image:Wiktionary-logo-af.png]]
| Die vrye woordeboek
| Die WikiWoordeboek webwerf
|}

=== ak Akan Akana===

=== als Alemannisch ===

=== am Amharic ===

=== an Aragonese Aragonés ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Biquipedia
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-an.png]]
| A enziclopedia libre
| Biquipedia, a Wikipedia en aragonés
|-
| Biquizionario
| [[:Image:Wiktionary-logo-an.png]]
| O dizionario libre
| Biquizionario, o dizionario libre en aragonés
|}

=== ang Anglo Saxon ===

=== ar Arabic العربية ===

=== arc Aramaic ܐܪܡܝܐ===

=== as Assamese অসমীয়া ===

=== ast Asturian Asturianu ===

=== av Avaric Авар ===

=== ay Aymara Aymar aru ===

=== az Azerbaijani Azərbaycan ===

== B ==

=== ba Bashkir Башҡорт ===

=== be Belarusian Беларуская ===

=== bg Bulgarian Български ===

=== bh Bihari Bhojpuri ===

=== bi Bislama ===

=== bm Bambara Bamanankan ===

=== bn Bangla বাংলা ===

=== bo བོད་ཡིག ===

=== br Breton Brezhoneg ===

=== bs Bosnian Bosanski ===

=== bug Buginese ᨅᨔ ᨕᨘᨁᨗ ===

== C ==

=== ca Catalan Català ===

=== ce Chechen Нохчийн ===

=== ceb Cebuano ===

=== ch Chamoru ===

=== cho Choctaw ===

=== chr Cherokee ᏣᎳᎩ ===

=== chy Tsetsêhestâhese ===

=== co Corsican Corsu ===

=== cr Cree Nehiyaw ===

=== cs Czech Česky ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Wikipedie
| [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-cs.png]]
| Otevřená encyklopedie
| mnohojazyčná encyklopedie
|-
| Wikislovník
| [[:File:Wiktionary-logo-cs.svg]]
|
| výkladový slovník
|-
| Wikicitáty
| [[:File:Wikiquote-logo-cs.svg]]
|
| sbírka citátů
|-
| Wikiknihy
| [[:File:Wikibooks-logo-cs.svg]]
| Myslete svobodně. Učte se svobodně.
| volně dostupné knihy a manuály
|-
| Wikizdroje
| [[:File:Wikisource-logo-cs.svg]]
|
| volně dostupné dokumenty
|-
| Wikizprávy
| [[:File:Wikinews-logo-cs.png]]
|
|
|}

=== csb Kashubian Kaszëbsczi ===

=== cv Chuvash Чӑваш ===

=== cy Welsh Cymraeg ===

== D ==

=== da Danish Dansk ===

=== de German Deutsch ===

=== dv Divehi ދިވެހިބަސް ===

=== dz Dzongkha ཇོང་ཁ ===

== E ==

=== ee Ewe Ɛʋɛ ===

=== el Greek Ελληνικά ===

=== en English ===

{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Wikibooks
| [[:Image:Wikibooks-logo-en.png]]
| Open books for an open world
| Free, open-content textbooks
|-
| Wikinews
| [[:Image:Wikinews-logo-en.png]]
| The free news source you can write!
| free news source
|-
| Wikipedia
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-en.png]]
| The Free Encyclopedia
| free encyclopedia
|-
| Wikiquote
| [[:Image:Wikiquote-logo-en.png]]
|
| a free compendium of quotations
|-
| Wikisource
| [[:Image:Wikisource-logo.png]]
| The Free Library
| free library
|-
| Wikispecies
| [[:Image:Wikispecies-logo-en.png]]
| A free directory of life
| an open, free directory of species
|-
| Wiktionary
| [[:Image:Wiktionary-logo-en.png]]
| A Free, Multilingual Dictionary
| free multilingual dictionary
|}

=== eo Esperanto ===

{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Vikilibroj
| [[:Image:Wikibooks-logo-eo.png]]
| Pensu libere, lernu libere.
| liberaj, senpagaj lernolibroj
|-
| Vikinovajxoj
| [[:Image:Wikinews-logo-eo.png]]
| La libera fonto por novajxoj
| libera fonto por novajxoj
|-
| Vikipedio
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-eo.png]]
| La libera enciklopedio
| libera enciklopedio
|-
|
| [[:Image:Wikiquote-logo-eo.png]]
|
| libera kolekto de citajxoj
|-
| Vikifontaro
| [[:Image:Wikisource-logo.png]]
| La libera kolekto de fonttekstoj
| liberaj fonttekstoj
|-
| Vikivortaro
| [[:Image:Wiktionary-logo-eo.png]]
| libera, multlingva vortaro
| libera, multlingva vortaro
|}

Ceteraj proponoj:
*Vikipedio, la libera enciklopedio
*Legu. Kunlaboru. Donacu.
*Por doni al Esperanto pli da estonteco.
*Pli ol enciklopedio. Pli ol Esperanto.
*Ĉu Vikipedio informas pri via Landa Asocio?
*La enciklopedio kiu komenciĝas per vi

=== es Spanish Español ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Wikcionario
| [[:Image:Wiktionary-logo-es.png]]
|
| diccionario multilingüe con sinónimos
|-
| Wikiespecies
| [[:Image:Wikispecies-logo-en.png]]
|
| directorio de especies
|-
| Wikilibros
| [[:Image:Wikibooks-logo-es.png]]
| Libros libres para un mundo libre
| Libros de texto y manuales
|-
| Wikinoticias
| [[:Image:Wikinews-logo-es.png]]
|
| fuente de noticias libres
|-
| Wikipedia
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-es.png]]
| La enciclopedia libre
| enciclopedia libre
|-
| Wikiquote
| [[:Image:Wikiquote-logo-en.png]]
| La colección libre de citas y frases célebres
| compendio de citas
|-
| Wikisource
| [[:Image:Wikisource-logo.png]]
| La biblioteca libre
| biblioteca de textos originales libres
|-
| Wikiviajes
| [[:Image:Wikivoyage-logo-es.svg]]
| La guía de viajes libre
| guías de viajes
|}

=== et Estonian Eesti ===

=== eu Basque Euskara ===

== F ==

=== fa Persian فارسی ===

=== ff Fulah Fulfulde ===

=== fi Finnish Suomi ===

=== fiu-vro Finno-Võro ===

=== fj Fijian Na Vosa Vakaviti ===

=== fo Faroese Føroyskt ===

=== fr French Français ===

=== fur Friulian Furlan ===

=== fy Western Frisian Frysk ===

== G ==
=== ga Gaelic Gaeilge ===

=== gd Scottish Gaelic Gàidhlig ===

=== gl Galician Galego ===

=== gn Guarani Avañe'ẽ ===

=== got Gothic 𐌲𐌿𐍄𐌹𐍃𐌺 ===

=== gu Gujarati ગુજરાતી ===

=== gv Manx Gaelg ===

== H ==

=== ha Hausa هَوُسَ===

=== haw Hawaiian Hawai`i ===

=== he Hebrew עברית===

=== hi Hindi हिन्दी ===

=== ho Hiri Motu ===

=== hr Croatian Hrvatski ===

=== ht Haitian Krèyol ayisyen ===

=== hu Hungarian Magyar ===

=== hy Armenian Հայերեն ===

=== hz Herero Otsiherero ===

== I ==

=== ia Interlingua ===

=== id Bahasa Indonesia ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Wikipedia
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-id.png]]
| Ensiklopedia Bebas
| ensiklopedia bebas
|}

=== ie Interlingue ===

=== ig Igbo ===

=== ii Sichuan Yi ꆇꉙ ===

=== ik Inupiaq Iñupiak ===

=== ilo Ilokano ===

=== io Ido ===

=== is Icelandic Íslenska ===

=== it Italian Italiano ===

=== iu Inuktitut ᐃᓄᒃᑎᑐᑦ ===

== J ==

=== ja Japanese 日本語 ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| ウィキペディア
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-ja.png]]
| フリー百科事典
| フリー百科事典
|-
| ウィクショナリー
| [[:Image:Wiktionary-logo-en.png]]
|
| フリー多機能辞典
|-
| ウィキクオート
| [[:Image:Wikiquote-logo-en.png]]
|
| フリー引用句集
|-
| ウィキブックス
| [[:Image:Wikibooks-logo-en.png]]
| Think Free. Learn Free.
| フリー教科書
|-
| ウィキソース
| [[:Image:Wikisource-logo.png]]
|
|
|-
| ウィキニュース
| [[:Image:Wikinews-logo-ja.png]]
|
|
|}

=== jbo Lojban ===

{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| uitkicukta
| [[:Image:Wikibooks-logo-jbo.jpg]]
| zifre cukta ze'a lo zifre munje
| Free, open-content textbooks
|-
| uitkipedi'as
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-v2-jbo.svg]]
| noi zifre vricyjuncku
| free encyclopedia
|-
| uitkicitna
|
|
| a free compendium of quotations
|-
| uitkisors
| [[:Image:Wikisource-logo.png]]
|
| free library
|-
| uitkivlacukt
| [[:Image:Wiktionary-logo-jbo.svg]]
| noi zifre vlacku
| free multilingual dictionary
|}

=== jv Javanese Basa Jawa ===

== K ==

=== ka Georgian ქართული ===

=== kg Kongo ===

=== ki Kikuyu Gĩkũyũ ===

=== kj Kuanyama ===

=== kk Kazakh қазақша ===

=== kl Greenlandic Kalaallisut ===

=== km Khmer ភាសាខ្មែរ ===

=== kn Kannada ಕನ್ನಡ ===
*ಕನ್ನಡವೇ ಸತ್ಯ ಕನ್ನಡವೇ ನಿತ್ಯ - ಕುವೆಂಪು

*ಕನ್ನಡಕ್ಕಾಗಿ ಕೈ ಎತ್ತು ನಿನ್ನ ಕೈ ಕಲ್ಪವೃಕ್ಷವಾಗುವುದು. - ಕುವೆಂಪು

• ಕನ್ನಡವನುಳಿದೆನಗೆ ಅನ್ಯ ಜೀವನವಿಲ್ಲ - ದ.ರಾ.ಬೇಂದ್ರೆ

• ಎಲ್ಲೇ ಇರು, ಹೇಗೆ ಇರು, ಎಂದೆಂದೂ ನೀ ಕನ್ನಡವಾಗಿರು- ಕುವೆಂಪು

• ಹೆಸರಾಯಿತು ಕರ್ನಾಟಕ, ಉಸಿರಾಗಲಿ ಕನ್ನಡ- ಚೆನ್ನವೀರಕಣವಿ

• ಕನ್ನಡಕ್ಕಾಗಿ ಕೈಯೆತ್ತು ; ಬಾರದು ನಿನಗೆ ಆಪತ್ತು!- ಸಾ.ಶಿ.ಮರುಳಯ್ಯ

• ಕನ್ನಡ, ಕನ್ನಡ; ಬನ್ನಿ ನಮ್ಮ ಸಂಗಡ!- ಚಂದ್ರಶೇಖರ ಪಾಟೀಲ

• ಒಂದಾಗಿ, ಒಂದಾಗಿ; ಕನ್ನಡಕ್ಕೆ ಮುಂದಾಗಿ!- ವಿ.ಕೃ.ಗೋಕಾಕ್

• ಬಾಯ್ಗೆ ಸವಿ ಕನ್ನಡ; ಕಿವಿಗೆ ಸವಿ ಕನ್ನಡ!- ಸಿದ್ದಲಿಂಗಯ್ಯ

• ಕನ್ನಡ ಕಲಿಯಿರಿ; ಇಲ್ಲವೇ ತೊಲಗಿರಿ!

• ಕನ್ನಡ ಉಳಿದರೆ, ನಾವು ಉಳಿದೇವು! - ಅ.ನ.ಕೃ.

• ಎಲ್ಲೆಲ್ಲೂ ಕನ್ನಡ; ಎಲ್ಲೆಡೆಗೂ ಕನ್ನಡ!- ಮ.ರಾಮಮೂರ್ತಿ

• ಹಾರುವ ಹಕ್ಕಿ ನೋಡಲು ಚೆನ್ನ; ಕನ್ನಡ ಭಾಷೆ ನುಡಿಯಲು ಚೆನ್ನ!

• ತಪ್ತ ಕನ್ನಡಿಗ; ಸುಪ್ತ ಅಗ್ನಿಪರ್ವತ!- ಹಿ.ಮ.ನಾಗಯ್ಯ

• ಕನ್ನಡವೇ ದಿವ್ಯ; ಕನ್ನಡವೇ ಭವ್ಯ!- ನಿಸಾರ್‍ ಅಹಮದ್

• ಕನ್ನಡವೇ ನನ್ನ ನುಡಿ; ನಾನು ಕನ್ನಡಿಗ!

• ನಮ್ಮ ನುಡಿಯೇ ಕನ್ನಡ; ನಮ್ಮ ತನವೇ ಕನ್ನಡ!

• ಕನ್ನಡವೆನ್ನಿರಿ, ಜೊತೆಯಲಿ ಬನ್ನಿರಿ!

• ಕನ್ನಡವಾಗಲು ಉಸಿರು; ಬಾಳೆಲ್ಲಾ ಹಸಿರು!

• ಕನ್ನಡವನ್ನು ನೀನು ಉಳಿಸಿದರೆ, ನಿನ್ನನ್ನು ಕನ್ನಡ ಉಳಿಸುತ್ತದೆ!

• ಕರ್ನಾಟಕದಲ್ಲಿ ಕನ್ನಡವೇ ಸಾರ್ವಭೌಮ ಭಾಷೆ!

• ನಮ್ಮ ಮತ ಕನ್ನಡ; ನಮ್ಮ ದೈವ ಕನ್ನಡ!

• ಕನ್ನಡ ತಾಯಿ ನಮ್ಮನ್ನು ಕಾಯಿ!

• ಕನ್ನಡಕ್ಕಾಗಿ ದುಡಿ, ಇಲ್ಲವೇ ಮಡಿ!

• ಕನ್ನಡಕ್ಕೆ ನೀ ದುಡಿ; ಆಯುಷ್ಯವು ಇಮ್ಮಡಿ

=== ko Korean 한국어 ===

=== kr Kanuri ===

=== ks Kashmiri कश्मीरी - (كشميري)===

=== ku Kurdish Kurdî / كوردي ===

=== kv Komi Коми ===

=== kw Cornish Kernewek ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Wikipedia
| [[kw:File:Wiki.png]]
| An godhoniador rydh
| Godhoniador rydh
|}

=== ky Kirghiz Kırgızca ===

== L ==

=== la Latin Latina ===

=== lad Ladino ===

=== lb Luxembourgish Lëtzebuergesch ===

=== lg Ganda Luganda ===

=== li Limburgish Limburgs ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Wikipedia
| [[w:li:Image:Wiki.png]]
| De vriej encyclopedie
| gratis vriejen inhaud-encyclopedie 
|}

=== lmo Lumbaart ===

=== ln Lingala ===

=== lo Lao ລາວ ===

=== lt Lithuanian Lietuvių ===

=== lv Latvian Latviešu ===

== M ==

=== mg Malagasy fiteny ===

=== mh Marshallese Kajin M̧ajeļ ===

=== mi Māori ===

=== mk Macedonian Македонски ===

=== ml Malayalam മലയാളം ===

=== mn Mongolian Монгол ===

=== mo Moldavian Молдовеняскэ ===

=== mr Marathi मराठी ===

=== ms Malay, Bahasa Melayu ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| [//ms.wikipedia.org Wikipedia]
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-ms.png]]
| Ensiklopedia Bebas
| Ensiklopedia Bebas
|-
| [//ms.wiktionary.org/ Wiktionary]
| [[:Image:Wiktionary-logo-ms.png]]
| Kamus bebas
| Kamus bebas
|-
| [//ms.wikibooks.org Wikibuku]
| [[:Image:Wikibooks-logo-ms.png]]
| Think free learn free
| Buku teks dan manual bebas
|-
|}

=== mt Maltese Malti ===

=== mus Creek Muscogee ===

=== my Burmese Myanmasa ===

== N ==

=== na Nauruan Ekakairũ Naoero ===

=== nah Nāhuatl ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Huiquipedia
|
| In yōllōxoxouhqui cēntlamatilizāmoxtli
| yōllōxoxouhqui cēntlamatilizāmoxtli
|}

=== nap Neapolitan Napulitano ===

=== nds German, Low Plattdüütsch ===

=== nds-nl Nedersaksisch ===

=== ne Nepali नेपाली ===

=== ng Ndonga Oshiwambo ===

=== nl Dutch/Flemish Nederlands ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| [//nl.wikibooks.org Wikibooks]
| [[:Image:Wikibooks-logo-en.png]]
| Think Free. Learn Free.
| vrije-content leerboeken
|-
| [//nl.wikinews.org Wikinews]
| [[:Image:Wikinews-logo-en.png]]
| De vrije nieuwsbron waar je zelf kunt schrijven!
| vrije nieuwsbron
|-
| [//nl.wikipedia.org Wikipedia]
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-nl.png]]
| De vrije encyclopedie
| vrije encyclopedie
|-
| [//nl.wikiquote.org Wikiquote]
| [[:Image:Wikiquote-logo-en.png]]
|
| Een vrije collectie van citaten
|-
| [//nl.wikisource.org Wikisource]
| [[:Image:Wikisource-logo.png]]
| De vrije bibliotheek
| vrije bibliotheek
|-
| [//species.wikimedia.org/wiki/hoofdpagina Wikispecies]
| [[:Image:Wikispecies-logo-en.png]]
| Wikispecies is gratis. Het leven zelf is immers publiek domein.
| Een vrije samenvatting van alle soorten levende wezens
|}

=== nn Nowegian Nynorsk Norsk (nynorsk) ===

=== no Norwegian Bokmål Norsk (bokmål) ===

=== nv Navajo Diné bizaad ===

=== ny Chichewa Chi-Chewa ===

== O ==

=== oc Occitan ===

=== om Oromo Oromoo ===

=== or Oriya ଓଡ଼ିଆ ===
Oriya basi bhari sahasi

=== os Ossetian Иронау ===

== P ==

=== pa Punjabi ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ===

=== pam Pampangan ===

=== pi Pali पािऴ ===

=== pih Norfuk / Pitkern ===

=== pl Polish Polski ===

=== ps Pushto پښتو ===

=== pt Portuguese Português ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Wikipédia
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-pt.png]]
| A Enciclopédia Livre
| Enciclopédia livre
|-
| Wikcionário
| [[:Image:Wiktionary-logo-pt.png]]
| Um Dicionário Universal de Conteúdo Livre
| Dicionário de várias línguas
|-
| Wikilivros
| [[:Image:Wikibooks-logo-pt.png]]
| Livros abertos por um mundo aberto
| Livros e manuais livres
|-
| Wikiquote
| [[:Image:Wikiquote-logo.svg]]
| A Coletânia de Citações Livres
| Coletâneas de Citações
|-
| Wikinotícias
| [[:Image:Wikinews-logo-pt.png]]
| A Fonte de Notícias Livre
| Fonte de notícias livre
|-
| Wikisource
| [[:Image:Wikisource-logo.png]]
| A Biblioteca Livre
| Documentos originais livres
|-
| Wikiversidade
| [[:Image:Wikiversity-logo-pt.png]]
| A Universidade Livre
| Universidade livre
|-
| Wikispecies
| [[:Image:Wikispecies-logo.png]]
| Um Diretório Livre da Vida
| Diretório de espécies
|-
|}

== Q ==

=== qu Quechua Runa Simi ===

== R ==

=== rm Raeto-Romance Rumantsch ===

=== rn Rundi kiRundi ===

=== ro Romanian Română ===

=== ru Russian Русский ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Википедия
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-ru.png]]
| Свободная энциклопедия
| свободная энциклопедия
|}

=== rw Kinyarwanda ===

== S ==

=== sa Sanskrit संस्कृतम् ===

=== sc Sardinian Sardu ===

=== scn Sicilian Sicilianu===

=== sco Scots leid ===

=== sd Sindhi سنڌي، سندھی ===

=== se Northern Sami Sámegiella ===

=== sg Sango Sängö ===

=== sh Srpskohrvatski / Српскохрватски ===

=== si Sinhalese සිංහල ===

=== simple Simple English ===

=== sk Slovak Slovenčina ===

=== sl Slovenian Slovenščina ===

=== sm Samoan Gagana Samoa ===

=== sn Shona chiShona ===

=== so Somali Soomaaliga ===

=== sq Albanian Shqip ===

=== sr Serbian Српски / Srpski ===

{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Википедија
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-sr.png]]
| Слободна енциклопедија
|
|-
| Викиречник
| [[:Image:Wiktionary-logo-sr.png]]
| Слободан речник
|
|-
| Викивести
| [[:Image:Wikinews-logo-sr.png]]
| Слободне вести
|

|}

=== ss Swati SiSwati ===

=== st Sotho, Southern seSotho ===

=== su Sundanese Basa Sunda ===

=== sv Swedish Svenska ===

=== sw Swahili Kiswahili ===

== T ==

=== ta Tamil தமிழ் ===

=== te Telugu తెలుగు ===

=== tg Tajik Тоҷикӣ ===

=== th Thai ไทย ===

=== ti Tigrinya ትግርኛ ===

=== tk Turkmen تركمن Түркмен ===

=== tl Tagalog ===

=== tlh Klingon ===

=== tn Tswana seTswana ===

=== to Tongan faka-Tonga ===

=== tokipona Toki Pona ===

=== tpi Tok Pisin ===

{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Wikipedia
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-tpi.png]]
| Fri Ensaiklopedia
| fri ensaiklopedia
|}

=== tr Turkish Türkçe ===

=== ts Tsonga xiTsonga ===

=== tt Tatar Tatarça ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Википедия
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-v2-tt.png]]
| Ирекле энциклопедя
| ирекле энциклопедя
|}

=== tum Tumbuka chiTumbuka ===

=== tw Twi ===

=== ty Tahitian te reo Mā`ohi ===

== U ==

=== udm Udmurt Удмурт ===

=== ug Uighur Oyghurque ===

=== uk Ukrainian Українська ===

=== ur Urdu اردو ===

=== uz Uzbek Ўзбек Узбек===

== V ==

=== ve Venda tshiVenda ===

=== vec Vèneto ===

=== vi Vietnamese Tiếng Việt ===

{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| Wikipedia
| [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-vi.svg]]
| bách khoa toàn thư mở
| bách khoa toàn thư mở
|-
| Wiktionary
| [[:File:Wiktionary-logo-vi.svg]]
| từ điển mở
| từ điển mở
|-
| Wikibooks
| [[:File:Wikibooks-logo-vi.svg]]
| tủ sách mở cho một thế giới mở
| tủ sách giáo khoa mở
|-
| Wikinews Beta
| —
| trang tin tức mở
| nguồn tin tức mở
|-
| Wikiquote
| [[:File:Wikiquote-logo-en.png]]
| bộ sưu tập danh ngôn mở
| bộ sưu tập danh ngôn
|-
| Wikisource
| [[:File:Wikisource-logo.svg]]
| văn thư lưu trữ mở
| văn thư lưu trữ mở
|-
| Wikiversity Beta
| —
| học liệu mở
| —
|-
| Wikivoyage
| [[:File:Wikivoyage-logo-en.svg]]
| cẩm nang du lịch mở
| cẩm nang du lịch mở
|}

=== vo Volapük ===

== W ==

=== wa Walloon Walon ===

=== war Waray Samar-Leyte Visayan ===

=== wo Wolof ===

== X ==

=== xh Xhosa isiXhosa ===

== Y ==

=== yi Yiddish ייִדיש ===

=== yo Yoruba Yorùbá ===

== Z ==

=== za Zhuang Saɯ cueŋƅ ===

=== zh Chinese 中文 ===
{| class = "wikitable"
|-{{Highlight1}}
! Project
! Logo
! Slogan
! Description
|-
| 維基百科
| [[:Image:Wikipedia-logo-zh.png]]
| 自由的百科全書
| 自由的百科全書
|-
| 維基詞典
| [[:Image:Wiktionary-logo-en.png]]
|
| 自由的多語詞典
|-
| 維基教科書
| [[:Image:Wikibooks-logo-en.png]]
|
| 教科书和手册
|-
| 維基語錄
| [[:Image:Wikiquote-logo-en.png]]
|
| 名人名言的集锦
|-
| 維基文庫
| [[:Image:Wikisource-logo.png]]
| 自由的源文档库
| 自由的源文档库
|-
| 維基新聞
| [[:Image:Wikinews-logo-zh.png]]
| 你也可以撰写的自由新闻源
| 自由的新闻资源
|
|-
| 維基導遊
| [[:Image:Wikivoyage-Logo-v3-zh-hant.png]]
|
| 自由的世界旅行指南
|}

=== zh-min-nan Bân-lâm-gú ===

=== zu Zulu isiZulu ===

{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+
|-{{Highlight1}}
!Language
!Project name
!Tagline
!Description
|-
|[[English]]
|Wikipedia
|the free encyclopedia
|free encyclopedia
|-
| rowspan="6" |Tiếng Việt
|Wikipedia
|bách khoa toàn thư mở
|bách khoa toàn thư mở
|-
|Wiktionary
|từ điển mở
|từ điển mở
|-
|Wikibooks
|thư viện mở
|thư viện sách mở
|-
|Wikiquote
|
|bộ sưu tập danh ngôn
|-
|Wikisource
|thư viện văn kiện
|kho tài liệu nguồn
|-
|Commons
|
|kho tư liệu dùng chung
|}

Steward requests/Miscellaneous

2018-04-19T04:11:38Z

Lojbanist: /* Jbowiki Sitenotice */

{{dynamite|title=:Steward requests/Miscellaneous/Header}}
__FORCETOC__




== Manual requests ==
Please see [[toollabs:stewardbots/hat-web-tool/delete.php|a list of pages nominated for speedy deletion]] via {{tl|Delete}} and/or the local equivalent. You can also [[toollabs:erwin85/delete.php|filter by wikis whose admins are less than X or have not delete since Y]].


=== Non-free content ===
{{Status|}}
Does anyone have an interest in [[Non-free content]] at wikis that have no exemption doctrine policy or that do not seem to be enforcing it properly? As an example of the latter, [[:w:id:Wikipedia:Penggunaan media nonbebas#Kebijakan gambar tokoh yang masih hidup]] appears to prohibit non-free images for BLPs, but [[:w:id:Istimewa:Daftar berkas]] seems to have more photos of BLPs than one might expect under such a policy. (Please ping me.) [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 06:50, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
:Sure, you can/should tag such violations with <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> and if the requests are not acted upon in a month or so you can ping global sysops/stewards here, as with [[#Speedy deletions on as/ms]]. [[User:Nemo bis|Nemo]] 12:09, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
{{ping|WhatamIdoing}} You mentioned id.wikipedia, which is a larger project and stewards can probably not edit there. There are 295 Wikipedias and of these there are ~85 Wikipedias [https://wikistats.wmflabs.org/display.php?t=wp&s=images_desc] having more than 1000 local files. In 2012 Nemo claimed 76 [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Non-free_content/taking_stock&oldid=4041742]. These Wikipedias often 1) have upload open for any logged-in user 2) host dozens of unused files 3) have lots of unfree files among the unused files, i.e. they are not EDP-files, since they lack an applicable rationale. Some Wikipedias have more than 1000 unused files, some more than 5000 – the counter stops then. Some have 20% of all files unused.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|+ Local files in Wikipedias
! Date || 1 Qty of projects || 2 Qty of projects w/o local files (100% Commons) || 3 Qty of projects having local files || 4 Qty of local files || 4/3 || Reference
|-
| 2013-01-01 || 285 || 36 || 249 || 2 038 148 || 8185 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=4949525#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2014-01-01 || 287 || 30 || 257 || 2 208 750 || 8594 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=6908984#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2015-01-01 || 288 || 30 || 258 || 2 311 679 || 8959 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=10866718#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2016-01-01 || 291 || 37 || 254 || 2 405 486 || 9470 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=15204235#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2017-01-01 || 295 || 140 || 155 || 2 430 156 || 15678 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=16197859#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2017-04-14 || 295 || 140 || 155 || 2 436 730 || 15720 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=16589959#Grand_Total]
|}

In the last ~4 years (2013-01-01 to today) the number of local files in Wikipedias increased by 391 925 from 2 038 148 to 2 430 073 [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&diff=16141749&oldid=4949525], i.e. ca. 100 000 per year. At the same time, the number of Wikipedias using local files decreased. The major part of the increase comes from the aforementioned 85 Wikipedias. Some are out of scope for stewards and SRM.

To stop the problem with non-free content in small, open-upload Wikipedias and the workload for stewards to become worse, one could restrict the upload to admins. That is not fixing current violations, but reducing chance for new violations and freeing steward resources.

Candidates for restriction are the following 40 Wikipedias, each has 9 or less admins and uploads still open: ksh, pfl, rm, wuu, nv, frr, als, vec, bar, zh-yue, an, mt, pa, km, ga, oc, bcl, as, ps, scn, eml, mn, ba, be-tarask, am, be, sw, wa, lb, ky, hi, kn, tt, my, si, jv, br, fy, ka, bs. [[Special:Contributions/92.227.229.171|92.227.229.171]] 01:37, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:This is the problem we currently face on id.wp, most of those files were PD-Gov, can be seen from the source links, but we are currently muddling if we should just transfer them to commons or just tag and add pd-gov license to it, but then again, there are thousands file need to be handled, we don't have enough hand. As for Stewards and GS, can close this request as this cannot be actioned by stewards or GS, whatamdoing can just come to id.wp to make this announcement/comment (again).--[[User:Aldnonymous|AldNonymous]][[User talk:Aldnonymous|Bicara?]] 19:34, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Just a heads up, I'm one of the admin in id.wikipedia. I've worked up a [https://quarry.wmflabs.org/query/15624 Quarry script] to detect those violating images and I've deleted all of them. There was around 2,000 of them but I suspect that it didn't cover all fairuse BLP images yet. Feel free to fork and/or improve the Quarry script. [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]] ([[User talk:Kenrick95|talk]]) 10:57, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
:I'm amazed at how much you've already achieved there.
:But idwiki is just one example (and perhaps one that is more capable of addressing it than average). Is there a desirable general approach to this issue, e.g., for a wiki with no (or many fewer) local admins? [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 06:26, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
::{{re|WhatamIdoing}} Yeah, you could fork my script by changing the wiki database name ("idwiki_p"), the fairuse category name ("Gambar_berlisensi_penggunaan_wajar"), and the BLP category name ("Orang_hidup") to the local names. [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]] ([[User talk:Kenrick95|talk]]) 00:43, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
:::Thanks, [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]]. I'm not very familiar with Quarry, but I might give it a try.
:::OTOH, I'm wondering whether a much more [[wikt:ham-fisted|ham-fisted]] approach would be appropriate, given that copyright violations are involved. For example, instead of manually reviewing and tagging hundreds or thousands of images, we could leave a general note to at a few Village Pumps to report problems. We could say that there are obviously problems, and if local admins don't report that it has been addressed to their satisfaction in <number of days>, then all of the local files will be deleted and uploading will be disabled.
:::Also, at wikis without any (active) local admins, uploading should probably be disabled anyway. (It may already be the case; I don't know.) [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 18:02, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
::::Funfact, we even have it on our recent changes for warning to them to review their own files (since year[s] ago), then do single warning for multiple files that uploaded by same person, not a single reply (except from the minority of the [still] active senior user, One of the reason why we muddling it so long, I even left same kind of warning on my own talkpage so every visitor will read it, we kinda wanted those old user return and tend to their own uploads/files)), of course because the files are so old, the person who own the account are also went inactive for year, I don't know how it is with en.wp or other Wikis, but this was the heritage from the old times when the old local laws still don't require user to to give any rationale for the upload. Number of days? More like number of years. Mass deletions are just last resort, not a good way but still a 'way', a better way to avoid legal liability. (Which kinda weird, it's almost complaining why a wiki being old is kinda bad).--[[User:Aldnonymous|AldNonymous]][[User talk:Aldnonymous|Bicara?]] 23:52, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

=== Improper content on Khmer-Wiki ===
{{Status|In progress}}

As raised the issue of the fact of being a not maintained wiki-page [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages here], before, and comming "back" to the most, for my person most obivious issue, [https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/វិគីភីឌា:ChatKhmer_for_Non-Khmer_Speakers Copyright violations - Tipitaka Khmer], my person likes to remark also here (on recommentation of a wikimedia-member), that it would be proper to act on it in the know cases but also to "insure" as much as possible, that there is a maintaining and care afterwards. Aware of the fact that it needs a lot of sacrify, may it be of best use for all and by those able and willing to act proper seen as a possibility for merits, if well done. --[[User:សមណៈយុហាន់|សមណៈយុហាន់]] ([[User talk:សមណៈយុហាន់|talk]]) 18:07, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
:Mr. [https://km.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សារបស់អ្នកប្រើប្រាស់:Holder Holder] generously and obligated, has started to work through it, sure for only one person and no additional support, also in teaching at the same time, might be a brudensome undertaking, possible at least with less gain for all involved benefit. --[[User:សមណៈយុហាន់|សមណៈយុហាន់]] ([[User talk:សមណៈយុហាន់|talk]]) 11:23, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|សមណៈយុហាន់}} I don't see that there is any request to be actioned by global admins or sysops, I believe that this request should be closed as not done. If you believe that there is existing actions, then please identify specific actions that are required at Khmer wiki. Thanks.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 06:16, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
::: denying or not, a giver has responsibility on his "gift" and it's not the case that having given birth to something is enough for release, yet at least nurishing on it. If abounding that a holding on strings makes what one would ever face as, direct or indirect as effects of carelessness. Neither to hold on nor to abound is thereby advocated, but just a "this requires that" or "with that, this will need to come along" so that it will not have bad effects for those act and willing to enjoy fruits. Ones own choices mr {{ping|billinghurst}}, ones own fruits from them, according to ones selected relations. No wishes, no demands, just pointing. Maybe just bringing "Note: When you edit this page, you agree to release your contribution under the CC0.", or likewise, to more awareness might help, on the other side, even with this words, my person could not confirm with it's requirement, since this is not given for any normal exchange or trade... but for release. May your good choices bring their fruits always quick and possible to trace, may bad choices effects to always bearable with ease and pull to better. {{Unsigned|សមណៈយុហាន់}}

=== OAuth approval request for lvwiki ===
{{oauthapprequest
| status = 
| appname = lvwiki
| version = 1.0
| publisher = Edgars2007
| consumer_key = 44cb5e7558bf243b262de08ed4e8c688
}}
It currently will be used for two tools, which has to be developed :) a) View list of articles, that are missing in lvwiki and do some edits to list (in tool side), like translating name of article. These rights of course can't be given to all users. b) Second tool is new page review for one of lvwiki users. Doing some actions on tool side (mark pages, import pages to list etc.) and on Wikipedia side (add maintanence tags to articles for example).

But first of all, this OAuth is for testing/learning. Can't use "Edgars2007-only-OAuth", because I will need authorize functionality. --[[User:Edgars2007|Edgars2007]] ([[User talk:Edgars2007|talk]]) 15:25, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
===Jbowiki Sitenotice===
Please add the following code to jbowikipedia and jbowiktionary's MediaWiki:Sitenotice pages:

<nowiki>
<div style="color:white;background-color:black;text-align:center;">
{|
|[[File:WP SOPA banner full.png|155px|link=]]
|'''ko klama lo le kibjo'e pelji [https://savethememe.net/en savethememe] lo ka sisti tu'a lo cnino ropno kapirait flalu fi lo nu cu daspo da zifre to poi vasru lo medi'auitkis gi'e uitkipedi'as toi'''
|}
</div>
</nowiki>

which produces:
<div style="color:white;background-color:black;text-align:center;">
{|
|[[File:WP SOPA banner full.png|155px|link=]]
|'''ko klama lo le kibjo'e pelji [https://savethememe.net/en savethememe] lo ka sisti tu'a lo cnino ropno kapirait flalu fi lo nu cu daspo da zifre to poi vasru lo medi'auitkis gi'e uitkipedi'as toi'''
|}
</div>
For more info, see [https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/how-eus-copyright-reform-threatens-open-source-and-how-fight-it this LinuxJournal article]. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 04:09, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

== See also ==
* {{ll|Global sysops}}
* [[Steward handbook]]
{{/Archivefooter}}

[[Category:Multilingualism]]
[[Category:Wikimedia projects]]
{{RF}}

Steward requests/Miscellaneous

2018-04-19T04:09:32Z

Lojbanist: /* OAuth approval request for lvwiki */

{{dynamite|title=:Steward requests/Miscellaneous/Header}}
__FORCETOC__




== Manual requests ==
Please see [[toollabs:stewardbots/hat-web-tool/delete.php|a list of pages nominated for speedy deletion]] via {{tl|Delete}} and/or the local equivalent. You can also [[toollabs:erwin85/delete.php|filter by wikis whose admins are less than X or have not delete since Y]].


=== Non-free content ===
{{Status|}}
Does anyone have an interest in [[Non-free content]] at wikis that have no exemption doctrine policy or that do not seem to be enforcing it properly? As an example of the latter, [[:w:id:Wikipedia:Penggunaan media nonbebas#Kebijakan gambar tokoh yang masih hidup]] appears to prohibit non-free images for BLPs, but [[:w:id:Istimewa:Daftar berkas]] seems to have more photos of BLPs than one might expect under such a policy. (Please ping me.) [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 06:50, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
:Sure, you can/should tag such violations with <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> and if the requests are not acted upon in a month or so you can ping global sysops/stewards here, as with [[#Speedy deletions on as/ms]]. [[User:Nemo bis|Nemo]] 12:09, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
{{ping|WhatamIdoing}} You mentioned id.wikipedia, which is a larger project and stewards can probably not edit there. There are 295 Wikipedias and of these there are ~85 Wikipedias [https://wikistats.wmflabs.org/display.php?t=wp&s=images_desc] having more than 1000 local files. In 2012 Nemo claimed 76 [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Non-free_content/taking_stock&oldid=4041742]. These Wikipedias often 1) have upload open for any logged-in user 2) host dozens of unused files 3) have lots of unfree files among the unused files, i.e. they are not EDP-files, since they lack an applicable rationale. Some Wikipedias have more than 1000 unused files, some more than 5000 – the counter stops then. Some have 20% of all files unused.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|+ Local files in Wikipedias
! Date || 1 Qty of projects || 2 Qty of projects w/o local files (100% Commons) || 3 Qty of projects having local files || 4 Qty of local files || 4/3 || Reference
|-
| 2013-01-01 || 285 || 36 || 249 || 2 038 148 || 8185 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=4949525#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2014-01-01 || 287 || 30 || 257 || 2 208 750 || 8594 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=6908984#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2015-01-01 || 288 || 30 || 258 || 2 311 679 || 8959 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=10866718#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2016-01-01 || 291 || 37 || 254 || 2 405 486 || 9470 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=15204235#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2017-01-01 || 295 || 140 || 155 || 2 430 156 || 15678 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=16197859#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2017-04-14 || 295 || 140 || 155 || 2 436 730 || 15720 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=16589959#Grand_Total]
|}

In the last ~4 years (2013-01-01 to today) the number of local files in Wikipedias increased by 391 925 from 2 038 148 to 2 430 073 [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&diff=16141749&oldid=4949525], i.e. ca. 100 000 per year. At the same time, the number of Wikipedias using local files decreased. The major part of the increase comes from the aforementioned 85 Wikipedias. Some are out of scope for stewards and SRM.

To stop the problem with non-free content in small, open-upload Wikipedias and the workload for stewards to become worse, one could restrict the upload to admins. That is not fixing current violations, but reducing chance for new violations and freeing steward resources.

Candidates for restriction are the following 40 Wikipedias, each has 9 or less admins and uploads still open: ksh, pfl, rm, wuu, nv, frr, als, vec, bar, zh-yue, an, mt, pa, km, ga, oc, bcl, as, ps, scn, eml, mn, ba, be-tarask, am, be, sw, wa, lb, ky, hi, kn, tt, my, si, jv, br, fy, ka, bs. [[Special:Contributions/92.227.229.171|92.227.229.171]] 01:37, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:This is the problem we currently face on id.wp, most of those files were PD-Gov, can be seen from the source links, but we are currently muddling if we should just transfer them to commons or just tag and add pd-gov license to it, but then again, there are thousands file need to be handled, we don't have enough hand. As for Stewards and GS, can close this request as this cannot be actioned by stewards or GS, whatamdoing can just come to id.wp to make this announcement/comment (again).--[[User:Aldnonymous|AldNonymous]][[User talk:Aldnonymous|Bicara?]] 19:34, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Just a heads up, I'm one of the admin in id.wikipedia. I've worked up a [https://quarry.wmflabs.org/query/15624 Quarry script] to detect those violating images and I've deleted all of them. There was around 2,000 of them but I suspect that it didn't cover all fairuse BLP images yet. Feel free to fork and/or improve the Quarry script. [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]] ([[User talk:Kenrick95|talk]]) 10:57, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
:I'm amazed at how much you've already achieved there.
:But idwiki is just one example (and perhaps one that is more capable of addressing it than average). Is there a desirable general approach to this issue, e.g., for a wiki with no (or many fewer) local admins? [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 06:26, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
::{{re|WhatamIdoing}} Yeah, you could fork my script by changing the wiki database name ("idwiki_p"), the fairuse category name ("Gambar_berlisensi_penggunaan_wajar"), and the BLP category name ("Orang_hidup") to the local names. [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]] ([[User talk:Kenrick95|talk]]) 00:43, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
:::Thanks, [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]]. I'm not very familiar with Quarry, but I might give it a try.
:::OTOH, I'm wondering whether a much more [[wikt:ham-fisted|ham-fisted]] approach would be appropriate, given that copyright violations are involved. For example, instead of manually reviewing and tagging hundreds or thousands of images, we could leave a general note to at a few Village Pumps to report problems. We could say that there are obviously problems, and if local admins don't report that it has been addressed to their satisfaction in <number of days>, then all of the local files will be deleted and uploading will be disabled.
:::Also, at wikis without any (active) local admins, uploading should probably be disabled anyway. (It may already be the case; I don't know.) [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 18:02, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
::::Funfact, we even have it on our recent changes for warning to them to review their own files (since year[s] ago), then do single warning for multiple files that uploaded by same person, not a single reply (except from the minority of the [still] active senior user, One of the reason why we muddling it so long, I even left same kind of warning on my own talkpage so every visitor will read it, we kinda wanted those old user return and tend to their own uploads/files)), of course because the files are so old, the person who own the account are also went inactive for year, I don't know how it is with en.wp or other Wikis, but this was the heritage from the old times when the old local laws still don't require user to to give any rationale for the upload. Number of days? More like number of years. Mass deletions are just last resort, not a good way but still a 'way', a better way to avoid legal liability. (Which kinda weird, it's almost complaining why a wiki being old is kinda bad).--[[User:Aldnonymous|AldNonymous]][[User talk:Aldnonymous|Bicara?]] 23:52, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

=== Improper content on Khmer-Wiki ===
{{Status|In progress}}

As raised the issue of the fact of being a not maintained wiki-page [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages here], before, and comming "back" to the most, for my person most obivious issue, [https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/វិគីភីឌា:ChatKhmer_for_Non-Khmer_Speakers Copyright violations - Tipitaka Khmer], my person likes to remark also here (on recommentation of a wikimedia-member), that it would be proper to act on it in the know cases but also to "insure" as much as possible, that there is a maintaining and care afterwards. Aware of the fact that it needs a lot of sacrify, may it be of best use for all and by those able and willing to act proper seen as a possibility for merits, if well done. --[[User:សមណៈយុហាន់|សមណៈយុហាន់]] ([[User talk:សមណៈយុហាន់|talk]]) 18:07, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
:Mr. [https://km.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សារបស់អ្នកប្រើប្រាស់:Holder Holder] generously and obligated, has started to work through it, sure for only one person and no additional support, also in teaching at the same time, might be a brudensome undertaking, possible at least with less gain for all involved benefit. --[[User:សមណៈយុហាន់|សមណៈយុហាន់]] ([[User talk:សមណៈយុហាន់|talk]]) 11:23, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|សមណៈយុហាន់}} I don't see that there is any request to be actioned by global admins or sysops, I believe that this request should be closed as not done. If you believe that there is existing actions, then please identify specific actions that are required at Khmer wiki. Thanks.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 06:16, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
::: denying or not, a giver has responsibility on his "gift" and it's not the case that having given birth to something is enough for release, yet at least nurishing on it. If abounding that a holding on strings makes what one would ever face as, direct or indirect as effects of carelessness. Neither to hold on nor to abound is thereby advocated, but just a "this requires that" or "with that, this will need to come along" so that it will not have bad effects for those act and willing to enjoy fruits. Ones own choices mr {{ping|billinghurst}}, ones own fruits from them, according to ones selected relations. No wishes, no demands, just pointing. Maybe just bringing "Note: When you edit this page, you agree to release your contribution under the CC0.", or likewise, to more awareness might help, on the other side, even with this words, my person could not confirm with it's requirement, since this is not given for any normal exchange or trade... but for release. May your good choices bring their fruits always quick and possible to trace, may bad choices effects to always bearable with ease and pull to better. {{Unsigned|សមណៈយុហាន់}}

=== OAuth approval request for lvwiki ===
{{oauthapprequest
| status = 
| appname = lvwiki
| version = 1.0
| publisher = Edgars2007
| consumer_key = 44cb5e7558bf243b262de08ed4e8c688
}}
It currently will be used for two tools, which has to be developed :) a) View list of articles, that are missing in lvwiki and do some edits to list (in tool side), like translating name of article. These rights of course can't be given to all users. b) Second tool is new page review for one of lvwiki users. Doing some actions on tool side (mark pages, import pages to list etc.) and on Wikipedia side (add maintanence tags to articles for example).

But first of all, this OAuth is for testing/learning. Can't use "Edgars2007-only-OAuth", because I will need authorize functionality. --[[User:Edgars2007|Edgars2007]] ([[User talk:Edgars2007|talk]]) 15:25, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
===Jbowiki Sitenotice===
Please add the following code to jbowikipedia and jbowiktionary's MediaWiki:Sitenotice pages:

<nowiki>
<div style="color:white;background-color:black;text-align:center;">
{|
|[[File:WP SOPA banner full.png|155px|link=]]
|'''ko klama lo le kibjo'e pelji [https://savethememe.net/en savethememe] lo ka sisti tu'a lo cnino ropno kapirait flalu fi lo nu cu daspo da zifre to poi vasru lo medi'auitkis gi'e uitkipedi'as toi'''
|}
</div>
</nowiki>

which produces:
<div style="color:white;background-color:black;text-align:center;">
{|
|[[File:WP SOPA banner full.png|155px|link=]]
|'''ko klama lo le kibjo'e pelji [https://savethememe.net/en savethememe] lo ka sisti tu'a lo cnino ropno kapirait flalu fi lo nu cu daspo da zifre to poi vasru lo medi'auitkis gi'e uitkipedi'as toi'''
|}
</div>
For more info, see [https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/how-eus-copyright-reform-threatens-open-source-and-how-fight-it this LinuxJournal article]. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 04:09, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

== See also ==
* {{ll|Global sysops}}
* [[Steward handbook]]
{{/Archivefooter}}

[[Category:Multilingualism]]
[[Category:Wikimedia projects]]
{{RF}}

User talk:Lojbanist

2018-04-13T00:20:09Z

Lojbanist: /* Email */ rm - stalking me across 3 WIKI FAMILIES (Wikimedia, Wikia, Referata) WILL get you GLOBALLY BANNED on ALL 3 OF THEM

<div class="borderc6 backgroundc2" style="border-style:solid;border-width:medium;padding:0.3em 0.5em;color:lightgrey">
<div align="center">{{Welcome/lang}}</div>
== Welcome to Meta! ==

<div class="lang-en" lang="en" style="color:black">
Hello, {{BASEPAGENAME}}. Welcome to the '''Wikimedia [[Meta:About Meta|Meta-Wiki]]'''! This website is for coordinating and discussing all [[Complete list of Wikimedia projects|Wikimedia projects]]. You may find it useful to read our [[Meta:Policy|policy page]]. If you are interested in doing translations, visit [[Meta:Babylon]]. You can also leave a note on [[Meta:Babel]] or [[Wikimedia Forum]] if you need help with something (please read the instructions at the top of the page before posting there). Happy editing!
</div>
</div> — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 13:17, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

== Survey on Inspire Campaign for addressing harassment ==

[[File:NounProject_Leaves.png|right|100px|link=https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_bpwtax5WbOwBf3D]]

Thanks for your participation during the [[Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire/Archive/Addressing_harassment|Inspire Campaign focused on addressing harassment]] from June 2016. I'm interested in hearing your experience during the campaign, so if you're able, '''[https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_bpwtax5WbOwBf3D I invite you to complete this brief survey]''' to describe how you contributed to the campaign and how you felt about participating.

Please feel free to let me know on my talk page if you have any questions about the campaign or the survey. Thanks! [[User:I JethroBT (WMF)|I JethroBT (WMF)]] ([[User talk:I JethroBT (WMF)|talk]]) 03:24, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

''([[Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire/Users/Addressing harassment|Opt-out instructions]])''


== Help Wikipedia improve Recent Changes! ==

Hi KATMAKROFAN,

The Editing Design team at the Wikimedia Foundation is currently seeking Wikipedians for user studies. If you've been using the new Recent Changes filters for edit review beta, we would love to talk with you! The study session will take approximately an hour.

Participants will need access to a stable internet connection, a quiet place to go for a research session, and a desktop/laptop with a microphone and optionally, a camera (it'd be nice to be able to see you during the session, but NOT required!).

If you are interested, please email me (see my userpage) to let me know your availability the next 2 weeks for a research session in Pacific Time (or specify your time zone).

Please let me know if you have any questions, and thank you for helping us improve Recent Changes and Edit Review!

[[User:Dchen (WMF)|Dchen (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Dchen (WMF)|talk]]) 21:43, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

== Reply to: [[special:diff/17251879/17253193]] ==

Dear KATMAKROFAN

Please, strike out [[special:diff/17251879/17253193|unnecessary bit]] from your comment because it is simply not [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Proposals_for_closing_projects/Deletion_of_Siberian_Wikipedia&diff=704398&oldid=704260 true].

On recognizing that the world doesn't revolve around ''me'', I have had my opinion on simple projects formed long before September 22, 2017 at 18:36:13 (CEST) – when I stated it. I have the right to express my opinion without being attacked on a personal level. Hope you would realize that it is very different when someone tries to nullify ones argument in a discussion, from that of attempting to attack at a personal level. Thanks for the understanding and your efforts of making the Wikiworld great again. Yours truly, -- [[user: Nesmir Kudilovic|Nesmir Kudilovič]] ([[user talk: Nesmir Kudilovic|razgovor]]) 15:53, subota, 23. rujna 2017. (SEV)

== Simple English Wikibooks ==

Hello again. Just for notification, [[Requests for comment/Unclosure of Simple English Wikibooks]] is closed. I wonder whether you still intend to request reopening Simple English Wikibooks. Here is [[Language committee/Handbook (requesters)]] if you want to create a request. Cheers. --[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 18:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

For the heads up, [[Requests for new languages/Wikibooks Simple English]] is made. --[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 18:43, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

== Are you understand Nahuatl languages? ==

Hi, I looking for Nahua speakers of Nahuatl languages. I start in Incubator new projects. Thanks.--[[User:Marrovi|Marrovi]] ([[User talk:Marrovi|talk]]) 00:06, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

It's my new project [[:Incubator:Category:Incubator:Nahuatl languages]], All about Nahuatl languages.--[[User:Marrovi|Marrovi]] ([[User talk:Marrovi|talk]]) 00:10, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

== November 2017 ==

{|class="messagebox plainlinks user-block" style="margin-left:0; padding:5px; background:#F9F9F9; "
| [[File:Stop x nuvola.svg|50px]]
| Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Wikimedia Meta-Wiki has a strict policy against [[:en:Wikipedia:No personal attacks|personal attacks]]. [[:en:Wikipedia:Attack page|Attack pages]] '''are not tolerated''' on Meta and are [[Meta:Deletion policy|deleted quickly]]. Users who continue to create or repost such pages will be blocked from editing Meta. Thank you. [[User:Az1568|Az1568]] ([[User talk:Az1568|talk]]) 16:37, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
|}
So I'm not allowed to talk about admin abuse? '''I am not happy.''' [[User:KATMAKROFAN|KATMAKROFAN]] ([[User talk:KATMAKROFAN#top|talk]]) 16:44, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

:Which abuse? Also if you don't use your talk page properly then I will ask some sysop to extended your block and revoke your permission to edit your talk page. --[[User:Liuxinyu970226|Liuxinyu970226]] ([[User talk:Liuxinyu970226|talk]]) 11:32, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

WikiMiscellanea

2018-04-11T04:11:13Z

Lojbanist:

{{New sister project proposal
| status = discussion
| project_name = WikiMiscellanea
| project_description = This would be a project to store stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else in Wikimedia (articles about yourself, collaborative fiction, etc.)
| multilingual_wiki = One multilingual wiki
| multilingual = Multilingual
| technical_reqs = Same extensions as every other WMF wiki

| url = wikimiscellanea.org
| logo = [[File:WiktLogo-Bubble-Infinity-blue.svg|thumb]]
| participants = [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
}}

This would be a project to store stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else in Wikimedia (articles about yourself, collaborative fiction, etc.). It would benefit Wikimedia in many ways; for example, transwiki-ing autobio drafts to WikiMiscellanea would reduce the backlog on enwiki MFD. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

==Proposed by==
[[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

==Alternative names==
WikiMiscellany, WikiNoneOfTheAbove, WikiAnything, WikiEverything

==Related projects/proposals==
None.

==Domain names==
wikimiscellanea.org

==Mailing list links==
<s>KATMAKROFAN</s> Lojbanist can't into mailinglist.

==Demos==
[https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiMiscellanea Wikiversity]

==People interested==

[[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)


[[Category:Proposed projects]]

WikiMiscellanea

2018-04-11T04:10:58Z

Lojbanist: /* Demos */

{{New sister project proposal
| status = discussion
| project_name = WikiMiscellanea
| project_description = This would be a project to store stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else in Wikimedia (articles about yourself, collaborative fiction, etc.)
| multilingual_wiki = One multilingual wiki
| multilingual = Multilingual
| technical_reqs = Same extensions as every other WMF wiki

| url = wikimiscellanea.org
| logo = [[File:WiktLogo-Bubble-Infinity-blue.svg|thumb]]
| development_wiki = <s>[https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiMiscellanea On Testwiki]</s> Forgot admins can also test [[:testwiki:Special:Log/delete|their tools]] there.
| participants = [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
}}

This would be a project to store stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else in Wikimedia (articles about yourself, collaborative fiction, etc.). It would benefit Wikimedia in many ways; for example, transwiki-ing autobio drafts to WikiMiscellanea would reduce the backlog on enwiki MFD. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

==Proposed by==
[[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

==Alternative names==
WikiMiscellany, WikiNoneOfTheAbove, WikiAnything, WikiEverything

==Related projects/proposals==
None.

==Domain names==
wikimiscellanea.org

==Mailing list links==
<s>KATMAKROFAN</s> Lojbanist can't into mailinglist.

==Demos==
[https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiMiscellanea Wikiversity]

==People interested==

[[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)


[[Category:Proposed projects]]

Requests for comment/Use the Wikipedia brand for all projects

2018-04-09T02:51:32Z

Lojbanist:

{{rfc subpage
|status =
|comment =
|date = 2018-04-9 
}}

I have seen this being brought up many times, from Wiktionary logo !votes to the Knowledge Engine FAQ. The idea: extend the "Wikipedia" brand to cover all sister projects (Wikipedia Dictionary, Wikipedia Textbooks, Wikipedia Quotes, etc.). The URLs would be straightforward: en.dictionary.wikipedia.org, jbo.textbooks.wikipedia.org, simple.travelguide.wikipedia.org, etc. I would also propose creating/reopening a full set of sisterprojects for every existing Wikipedia, and creating projects in every language with translation files in the Mediawiki software (en-gb, en-ca, avk, etc.). [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 02:46, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Requests for comment/Use the Wikipedia brand for all projects

2018-04-09T02:46:09Z

{{rfc subpage
|status =
|comment =
|date = 2018-04-9 
}}

I have seen this being brought up many times, from Wiktionary logo !votes to the Knowledge Engine FAQ. The idea: extend the "Wikipedia" brand to cover all sister projects (Wikipedia Dictionary, Wikipedia Textbooks, Wikipedia Quotes, etc.). The URLs would be straightforward: en.dictionary.wikipedia.org, jbo.textbooks.wikipedia.org, simple.travelguide.wikipedia.org, etc. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 02:46, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects

2018-04-08T01:05:55Z

Lojbanist: /* Open requests */

{{/header}}

===Open requests===
;Please add new requests to the END of the table below. 
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" width="95%"
! Proposal
! data-sort-type="date" | Request date
! Request closed on
! Status
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Move Beta Wikiversity to Incubator 2|Move Beta Wikiversity to Incubator 2]]
| type-of-proposal = Migration
| start= 2 July 2017
| status= discussion
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks|Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks]]
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 20 February 2018
| status= discussion
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Wikimedia Macedonia|Closure of Wikimedia Macedonia]]
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 2 April 2018
| status= discussion
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Test Wikipedia|Closure of Test Wikipedia]]
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 8 April 2018
| status= discussion
}}
|}

===Closed proposals===

Older closed proposals (prior to the introduction of the [[Closing projects policy]]) are listed on [[Proposals for closing projects/Archive]].

{| class="wikitable sortable" width="95%"
! Project
! data-sort-type="date" | Request date
! data-sort-type="date" | Request closed on
! Result
{{/proposal
| subpage = Cebuano Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 23 October 2017
| end = 7 February 2018
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Kalmyk Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 4 February 2018
| end = 5 February 2018
| status = rejected
| custom = Rejected. Proposal speedy closed as disruptive.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Norwegian Wikinews 3
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 3 October 2016
| end = 28 November 2017
| status = Rejected in favor of a soft close.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Moldovan Wikipedia 2
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 4 January 2014
| end = 23 November 2017
| status = approved
| custom = Approved; project redirected to [[:ro:]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Moldovan Wiktionary
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 19 December 2015
| end = 23 November 2017
| status = approved
| custom = Approved; project redirected to [[:wikt:ro:]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Alemannisch Wiktionary, Wikibooks and Wikiquote
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start= 16 February 2017
| end = 23 November 2017
| status = approved
| custom = Approved; projects redirected to namespaces in [[:als:]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Bosanski Wikibooks
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 2 January 2015
| end = 22 November 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Lojban Wikipedia 2
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 28 October 2017
| end = 6 November 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Nahuatl Wikipedia 2
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 7 October 2017
| end = 6 November 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Taraskievica Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 20 September 2017
| end = 6 November 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Limburgish Wikibooks
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 13 March 2016
| end = 28 July 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Venda Wikipedia 2
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start= 06 February 2017
| end = 21 July 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Marshallese Wikipedia and Wiktionary
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 16 May 2015
| end = 20 July 2017
| status = rejected
| custom = Rejected. Project remains closed, but was not deleted.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Afar Wikipedia, Wikibooks and Wiktionary
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 5 August 2016
| end = 20 July 2017
| status = rejected
| custom = Rejected. Projects remain closed, but were not deleted.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Hiri Motu Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 11 August 2016
| end = 20 July 2017
| status = rejected
| custom = Rejected. Project remains closed, but was not deleted.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Albanian Wikinews
| start= 11 February 2017
| end = 20 July 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| link = [[Proposals_for_closing_projects/Move_Beta_Wikiversity_to_Incubator|
Move Beta Wikiversity to Incubator]]
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 23 June 2013
| end = 1 July 2017
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Ilocano Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start= 6 May 2017
| end = 29 June 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Chavacano Wikipedia
| start= 12 December 2015
| end = 15 April 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Belarusian Wikibooks (2)
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 13 March 2016
| end = 15 April 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Chamorro Wikipedia 2
| start= 21 March 2015
| end = 15 April 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Pitkern & Norfuk Wikipedia 2
| start= 29 November 2013
| end = 15 April 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Kirundi Wikipedia 2
| start= 21 October 2013
| end = 15 April 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Japanese Wikiversity
| start= 11 October 2013
| end = 15 April 2017
| status= rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Lojban Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 31 October 2016
| end = 29 January 2017
| status = Rejected, proposer didn't fulfill notification requirements.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = wikimania2005
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 5 August 2016
| end = 13 August 2016
| status = rejected
| custom = Rejected. Project remains closed, but was not deleted.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Adyghe Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 16 March 2016
| end = 22 March 2016
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Persian Wikinews
| type-of-proposal = Closure
| start = 17 June 2015
| end = 17 July 2015
| status = withdrawn
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Interlingue Wikibooks
| start = 31 July 2013
| end = 16 December 2014
| status = approved
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Old English Wikibooks 2
| start = 21 January 2013
| end = 16 December 2014
| status = approved
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia
| start = 6 October 2014
| end = 7 October 2014
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Wikipedia Masri (Egyptian Arabic Dialect)
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 14 April 2014
| end = 21 April 2014
| status = Rejected, proposer didn't fulfill notification requirements.
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia
| type-of-proposal = Deletion
| start = 26 February 2014
| end = 27 February 2014
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = brwikimedia
| start = 13 February 2014
| end = 14 February 2014
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Uzbek Wikibooks (2)
| start = 1 March 2013
| end = 22 July 2013
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wb/uz|Wb/uz]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Amharic Wikiquote 2
| start = 20 November 2012
| end = 22 July 2013
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wq/am|Wq/am]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Xhosa Wikipedia 2
| start = 4 April 2013
| end = 14 July 2013
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Norwegian Wikinews 2
| start = 26 March 2013
| end = 14 July 2013
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Min Nan Wikiquote (2)
| start = 24 September 2012
| end = 9 January 2013
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wq/nan|Wq/nan]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Inupiak Wiktionary
| start = 2 September 2012
| end = 9 January 2013
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wt/ik|Wt/ik]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= Min Nan Wikisource 2
| start = 12 October 2012
| end = 31 December 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage= English Wikinews
| start = 18 November 2012
| end = 19 November 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Min Nan Wikibooks
| start = 20 August 2012
| end = 29 September 2012
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wb/nan|Wb/nan]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Strategy Wiki
| start = 13 August 2012
| end = 29 September 2012
| status = approved
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Zhuang Wiktionary
| start = 20 June 2012
| end = 29 September 2012
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wt/za|Wt/za]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Simple English Wiktionary (3)
| start = 21 August 2012
| end = 19 September 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Lojban Wiktionary
| start = 11 June 2012
| end = 22 July 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Basa Sunda Wikibooks (2)
| start = 06 June 2012
| end = 22 July 2012
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wb/su|Wb/su]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Volapük Wikibooks
| start = 26 April 2012
| end = 27 May 2012
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wb/vo|Wb/vo]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Buryat Wikipedia
| start = 18 March 2012
| end = 25 April 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Chechen Wikipedia (3)
| start = 30 March 2012
| end = 15 April 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Zulu Wikipedia
| start = 25 January 2012
| end = 29 March 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = nzwikimedia
| start = 2 January 2012
| end = 29 March 2012
| status = approved
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Bosnian Wikinews - 2nd proposal
| start = 21 September 2011
| end = 29 February 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Hebrew Wikinews - 2nd request
| start = 31 August 2011
| end = 29 February 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Kazakh Wikibooks 2
| start = 20 July 2011
| end = 29 February 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = meta-wiki
| start = 19 February 2012
| end = 19 February 2012
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Romany wikipedia
| start = 12 January 2012
| end = 16 February 2012
| status = Implemented as proposed (Indic script removed).
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = wikipedia ten
| start = 4 October 2011
| end = 17 December 2011
| status = approved
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Fiji Wikipedia 2
| start = 5 November 2011
| end = 13 November 2011
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Acehnese Wikipedia (4)
| start = 15 October 2011
| end = 15 October 2011
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Scots Wikipedia
| start = 21 August 2011
| end = 22 August 2011
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Old English Wikipedia
| start = 3 July 2011
| end = 22 August 2011
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Asturianu Wikibooks
| start = 2 July 2011
| end = 22 August 2011
| status = approved
| incubator = [[incubator:Wb/ast|Wb/ast]]
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Inuktitut Wikipedia 2
| start = 1 July 2011
| end = 22 August 2011
| status = rejected
}}
{{/proposal
| subpage = Xitsonga Wikipedia
| start = 18 July 2011
| end = 4 August 2011
| status = rejected
}}
|}


[[Category:Deletions and closings of projects]]

Steward requests/Miscellaneous

2018-04-08T00:36:58Z

Lojbanist: /* Use of testwiki for testing = all your stuff gets deleted. */

{{dynamite|title=:Steward requests/Miscellaneous/Header}}
__FORCETOC__




== Manual requests ==
Please see [[toollabs:stewardbots/hat-web-tool/delete.php|a list of pages nominated for speedy deletion]] via {{tl|Delete}} and/or the local equivalent. You can also [[toollabs:erwin85/delete.php|filter by wikis whose admins are less than X or have not delete since Y]].

=== Non-free content ===
{{Status|}}
Does anyone have an interest in [[Non-free content]] at wikis that have no exemption doctrine policy or that do not seem to be enforcing it properly? As an example of the latter, [[:w:id:Wikipedia:Penggunaan media nonbebas#Kebijakan gambar tokoh yang masih hidup]] appears to prohibit non-free images for BLPs, but [[:w:id:Istimewa:Daftar berkas]] seems to have more photos of BLPs than one might expect under such a policy. (Please ping me.) [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 06:50, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
:Sure, you can/should tag such violations with <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> and if the requests are not acted upon in a month or so you can ping global sysops/stewards here, as with [[#Speedy deletions on as/ms]]. [[User:Nemo bis|Nemo]] 12:09, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
{{ping|WhatamIdoing}} You mentioned id.wikipedia, which is a larger project and stewards can probably not edit there. There are 295 Wikipedias and of these there are ~85 Wikipedias [https://wikistats.wmflabs.org/display.php?t=wp&s=images_desc] having more than 1000 local files. In 2012 Nemo claimed 76 [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Non-free_content/taking_stock&oldid=4041742]. These Wikipedias often 1) have upload open for any logged-in user 2) host dozens of unused files 3) have lots of unfree files among the unused files, i.e. they are not EDP-files, since they lack an applicable rationale. Some Wikipedias have more than 1000 unused files, some more than 5000 – the counter stops then. Some have 20% of all files unused.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|+ Local files in Wikipedias
! Date || 1 Qty of projects || 2 Qty of projects w/o local files (100% Commons) || 3 Qty of projects having local files || 4 Qty of local files || 4/3 || Reference
|-
| 2013-01-01 || 285 || 36 || 249 || 2 038 148 || 8185 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=4949525#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2014-01-01 || 287 || 30 || 257 || 2 208 750 || 8594 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=6908984#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2015-01-01 || 288 || 30 || 258 || 2 311 679 || 8959 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=10866718#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2016-01-01 || 291 || 37 || 254 || 2 405 486 || 9470 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=15204235#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2017-01-01 || 295 || 140 || 155 || 2 430 156 || 15678 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=16197859#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2017-04-14 || 295 || 140 || 155 || 2 436 730 || 15720 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=16589959#Grand_Total]
|}

In the last ~4 years (2013-01-01 to today) the number of local files in Wikipedias increased by 391 925 from 2 038 148 to 2 430 073 [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&diff=16141749&oldid=4949525], i.e. ca. 100 000 per year. At the same time, the number of Wikipedias using local files decreased. The major part of the increase comes from the aforementioned 85 Wikipedias. Some are out of scope for stewards and SRM.

To stop the problem with non-free content in small, open-upload Wikipedias and the workload for stewards to become worse, one could restrict the upload to admins. That is not fixing current violations, but reducing chance for new violations and freeing steward resources.

Candidates for restriction are the following 40 Wikipedias, each has 9 or less admins and uploads still open: ksh, pfl, rm, wuu, nv, frr, als, vec, bar, zh-yue, an, mt, pa, km, ga, oc, bcl, as, ps, scn, eml, mn, ba, be-tarask, am, be, sw, wa, lb, ky, hi, kn, tt, my, si, jv, br, fy, ka, bs. [[Special:Contributions/92.227.229.171|92.227.229.171]] 01:37, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:This is the problem we currently face on id.wp, most of those files were PD-Gov, can be seen from the source links, but we are currently muddling if we should just transfer them to commons or just tag and add pd-gov license to it, but then again, there are thousands file need to be handled, we don't have enough hand. As for Stewards and GS, can close this request as this cannot be actioned by stewards or GS, whatamdoing can just come to id.wp to make this announcement/comment (again).--[[User:Aldnonymous|AldNonymous]][[User talk:Aldnonymous|Bicara?]] 19:34, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Just a heads up, I'm one of the admin in id.wikipedia. I've worked up a [https://quarry.wmflabs.org/query/15624 Quarry script] to detect those violating images and I've deleted all of them. There was around 2,000 of them but I suspect that it didn't cover all fairuse BLP images yet. Feel free to fork and/or improve the Quarry script. [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]] ([[User talk:Kenrick95|talk]]) 10:57, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
:I'm amazed at how much you've already achieved there.
:But idwiki is just one example (and perhaps one that is more capable of addressing it than average). Is there a desirable general approach to this issue, e.g., for a wiki with no (or many fewer) local admins? [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 06:26, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
::{{re|WhatamIdoing}} Yeah, you could fork my script by changing the wiki database name ("idwiki_p"), the fairuse category name ("Gambar_berlisensi_penggunaan_wajar"), and the BLP category name ("Orang_hidup") to the local names. [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]] ([[User talk:Kenrick95|talk]]) 00:43, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
:::Thanks, [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]]. I'm not very familiar with Quarry, but I might give it a try.
:::OTOH, I'm wondering whether a much more [[wikt:ham-fisted|ham-fisted]] approach would be appropriate, given that copyright violations are involved. For example, instead of manually reviewing and tagging hundreds or thousands of images, we could leave a general note to at a few Village Pumps to report problems. We could say that there are obviously problems, and if local admins don't report that it has been addressed to their satisfaction in <number of days>, then all of the local files will be deleted and uploading will be disabled.
:::Also, at wikis without any (active) local admins, uploading should probably be disabled anyway. (It may already be the case; I don't know.) [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 18:02, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
::::Funfact, we even have it on our recent changes for warning to them to review their own files (since year[s] ago), then do single warning for multiple files that uploaded by same person, not a single reply (except from the minority of the [still] active senior user, One of the reason why we muddling it so long, I even left same kind of warning on my own talkpage so every visitor will read it, we kinda wanted those old user return and tend to their own uploads/files)), of course because the files are so old, the person who own the account are also went inactive for year, I don't know how it is with en.wp or other Wikis, but this was the heritage from the old times when the old local laws still don't require user to to give any rationale for the upload. Number of days? More like number of years. Mass deletions are just last resort, not a good way but still a 'way', a better way to avoid legal liability. (Which kinda weird, it's almost complaining why a wiki being old is kinda bad).--[[User:Aldnonymous|AldNonymous]][[User talk:Aldnonymous|Bicara?]] 23:52, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

=== Improper content on Khmer-Wiki ===
{{Status|In progress}}

As raised the issue of the fact of being a not maintained wiki-page [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages here], before, and comming "back" to the most, for my person most obivious issue, [https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/វិគីភីឌា:ChatKhmer_for_Non-Khmer_Speakers Copyright violations - Tipitaka Khmer], my person likes to remark also here (on recommentation of a wikimedia-member), that it would be proper to act on it in the know cases but also to "insure" as much as possible, that there is a maintaining and care afterwards. Aware of the fact that it needs a lot of sacrify, may it be of best use for all and by those able and willing to act proper seen as a possibility for merits, if well done. --[[User:សមណៈយុហាន់|សមណៈយុហាន់]] ([[User talk:សមណៈយុហាន់|talk]]) 18:07, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
:Mr. [https://km.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សារបស់អ្នកប្រើប្រាស់:Holder Holder] generously and obligated, has started to work through it, sure for only one person and no additional support, also in teaching at the same time, might be a brudensome undertaking, possible at least with less gain for all involved benefit. --[[User:សមណៈយុហាន់|សមណៈយុហាន់]] ([[User talk:សមណៈយុហាន់|talk]]) 11:23, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|សមណៈយុហាន់}} I don't see that there is any request to be actioned by global admins or sysops, I believe that this request should be closed as not done. If you believe that there is existing actions, then please identify specific actions that are required at Khmer wiki. Thanks.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 06:16, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
::: denying or not, a giver has responsibility on his "gift" and it's not the case that having given birth to something is enough for release, yet at least nurishing on it. If abounding that a holding on strings makes what one would ever face as, direct or indirect as effects of carelessness. Neither to hold on nor to abound is thereby advocated, but just a "this requires that" or "with that, this will need to come along" so that it will not have bad effects for those act and willing to enjoy fruits. Ones own choices mr {{ping|billinghurst}}, ones own fruits from them, according to ones selected relations. No wishes, no demands, just pointing. Maybe just bringing "Note: When you edit this page, you agree to release your contribution under the CC0.", or likewise, to more awareness might help, on the other side, even with this words, my person could not confirm with it's requirement, since this is not given for any normal exchange or trade... but for release. May your good choices bring their fruits always quick and possible to trace, may bad choices effects to always bearable with ease and pull to better. {{Unsigned|សមណៈយុហាន់}}

=== OAuth approval request for ABS uploads ===
{{oauthapprequest
| status = not done
| appname = ABS uploads
| version = 1.0
| publisher = 99of9
| consumer_key = b22cc6197d408c25d54be4b88cd7fcec
}}
To switch my pywikipedia bot over to oauth. It seems like I need to do this now. --[[User:File Upload Bot (99of9)|File Upload Bot (99of9)]] ([[User talk:File Upload Bot (99of9)|talk]]) 13:16, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
:It looks like your client is owner-only. That should be auto-approved without manual approval. ("for owner-only consumers (which do not need to be reviewed or authorized but are only usable by yourself) @ [[:mw:OAuth/For Developers]]") Check it, please. — regards, [[User:-revi|Revi]] 14:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
::Ok, that's correct. Feel free to decline this then. --[[User:File Upload Bot (99of9)|File Upload Bot (99of9)]] ([[User talk:File Upload Bot (99of9)|talk]]) 14:09, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
:::Glad to hear that! — regards, [[User:-revi|Revi]] 14:14, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Ongoing disruption on Lak Wikipedia by ‎42.62.247.101 ===

{{Status|done}}
[[:w:lbe:]] - not sure what this IP is doing but they vandalize the project for the second day in a row. Probably in need in a long-term block. Thanks. --[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 12:06, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

:Globally blocked for 1 week. Thanks for reporting. [[User:Stryn|Stryn]] ([[User talk:Stryn|talk]]) 12:56, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Spam on to.wp ===

{{Status|done}}
[[:to:User:111.125.104.242|This page]] looks like spam. ([[Special:Diff/17919410|pointed here]] by [[User:Artix Kreiger|Artix Kreiger]]) --[[User:KockaAdmiralac|KockaAdmiralac]] ([[User talk:KockaAdmiralac|talk]]) 15:36, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Ruslik0|Ruslik]] ([[User talk:Ruslik0|talk]]) 17:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== User pages deletion ===
{{Status|not done}}
Could you please speedy delete all my user pages (that I had created before the Meta default user page)?

I repeat, please erase the page "User:JackPotte" on every wiki except for Meta. [[User:JackPotte|JackPotte]] ([[User talk:JackPotte|talk]]) 17:43, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

:Hi [[User:JackPotte]], if you have a user page on many projects it's probably better to ask the deletion at [[Synchbot]]. [[User:Stryn|Stryn]] ([[User talk:Stryn|talk]]) 17:49, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
::Thank you, I didn't know this process. So this request can be considered as done. [[User:JackPotte|JackPotte]] ([[User talk:JackPotte|talk]]) 17:50, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

===Use of testwiki for testing = all your stuff gets deleted.===
I have used testwiki for testing the MediaWiki software (which is what it is supposed to be used for). Recently, all of the stuff I put there post-2017 was deleted with the cryptic reason "Why". ("Why" indeed.) Could somebody please transwiki the deleted pages to <s>test2wiki</s> [https://simple.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page Deployment SimpleWiki], which appears to actually allow testing? (It could just be testing of admin tools, but that's unlikely, since if it was testing, it would have been undeleted already.) [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 22:33, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
:Have you attempted to discuss this with deleting admin [[testwiki:User_talk:Oshwah]] yet? — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 22:54, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
::That being said, the deletions do look like "content" and testwiki is '''[[testwiki:Wikipedia:What_Test_Wiki_is_not|not]]''' "A place to put content or anything meaningful". — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 22:56, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
::Also, test2wiki has a front page banner "don't expect anything to be kept." as well. — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 22:57, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
::I have changed my mind; please import [https://test.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page here] instead. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 00:10, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
:::It wasn't real "content"; it was '''test''' content. (May be interwiki confusion, as the deleting user is also a sysop on enwiki.) I want this content to be somewhere '''safe''', not on a "test" site that turns out to be in-name-only. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 00:36, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

== See also ==
* {{ll|Global sysops}}
* [[Steward handbook]]
{{/Archivefooter}}

[[Category:Multilingualism]]
[[Category:Wikimedia projects]]
{{RF}}

Steward requests/Miscellaneous

2018-04-08T00:10:39Z

Lojbanist: /* Use of testwiki for testing = all your stuff gets deleted. */

{{dynamite|title=:Steward requests/Miscellaneous/Header}}
__FORCETOC__




== Manual requests ==
Please see [[toollabs:stewardbots/hat-web-tool/delete.php|a list of pages nominated for speedy deletion]] via {{tl|Delete}} and/or the local equivalent. You can also [[toollabs:erwin85/delete.php|filter by wikis whose admins are less than X or have not delete since Y]].

=== Non-free content ===
{{Status|}}
Does anyone have an interest in [[Non-free content]] at wikis that have no exemption doctrine policy or that do not seem to be enforcing it properly? As an example of the latter, [[:w:id:Wikipedia:Penggunaan media nonbebas#Kebijakan gambar tokoh yang masih hidup]] appears to prohibit non-free images for BLPs, but [[:w:id:Istimewa:Daftar berkas]] seems to have more photos of BLPs than one might expect under such a policy. (Please ping me.) [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 06:50, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
:Sure, you can/should tag such violations with <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> and if the requests are not acted upon in a month or so you can ping global sysops/stewards here, as with [[#Speedy deletions on as/ms]]. [[User:Nemo bis|Nemo]] 12:09, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
{{ping|WhatamIdoing}} You mentioned id.wikipedia, which is a larger project and stewards can probably not edit there. There are 295 Wikipedias and of these there are ~85 Wikipedias [https://wikistats.wmflabs.org/display.php?t=wp&s=images_desc] having more than 1000 local files. In 2012 Nemo claimed 76 [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Non-free_content/taking_stock&oldid=4041742]. These Wikipedias often 1) have upload open for any logged-in user 2) host dozens of unused files 3) have lots of unfree files among the unused files, i.e. they are not EDP-files, since they lack an applicable rationale. Some Wikipedias have more than 1000 unused files, some more than 5000 – the counter stops then. Some have 20% of all files unused.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|+ Local files in Wikipedias
! Date || 1 Qty of projects || 2 Qty of projects w/o local files (100% Commons) || 3 Qty of projects having local files || 4 Qty of local files || 4/3 || Reference
|-
| 2013-01-01 || 285 || 36 || 249 || 2 038 148 || 8185 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=4949525#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2014-01-01 || 287 || 30 || 257 || 2 208 750 || 8594 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=6908984#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2015-01-01 || 288 || 30 || 258 || 2 311 679 || 8959 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=10866718#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2016-01-01 || 291 || 37 || 254 || 2 405 486 || 9470 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=15204235#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2017-01-01 || 295 || 140 || 155 || 2 430 156 || 15678 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=16197859#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2017-04-14 || 295 || 140 || 155 || 2 436 730 || 15720 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=16589959#Grand_Total]
|}

In the last ~4 years (2013-01-01 to today) the number of local files in Wikipedias increased by 391 925 from 2 038 148 to 2 430 073 [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&diff=16141749&oldid=4949525], i.e. ca. 100 000 per year. At the same time, the number of Wikipedias using local files decreased. The major part of the increase comes from the aforementioned 85 Wikipedias. Some are out of scope for stewards and SRM.

To stop the problem with non-free content in small, open-upload Wikipedias and the workload for stewards to become worse, one could restrict the upload to admins. That is not fixing current violations, but reducing chance for new violations and freeing steward resources.

Candidates for restriction are the following 40 Wikipedias, each has 9 or less admins and uploads still open: ksh, pfl, rm, wuu, nv, frr, als, vec, bar, zh-yue, an, mt, pa, km, ga, oc, bcl, as, ps, scn, eml, mn, ba, be-tarask, am, be, sw, wa, lb, ky, hi, kn, tt, my, si, jv, br, fy, ka, bs. [[Special:Contributions/92.227.229.171|92.227.229.171]] 01:37, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:This is the problem we currently face on id.wp, most of those files were PD-Gov, can be seen from the source links, but we are currently muddling if we should just transfer them to commons or just tag and add pd-gov license to it, but then again, there are thousands file need to be handled, we don't have enough hand. As for Stewards and GS, can close this request as this cannot be actioned by stewards or GS, whatamdoing can just come to id.wp to make this announcement/comment (again).--[[User:Aldnonymous|AldNonymous]][[User talk:Aldnonymous|Bicara?]] 19:34, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Just a heads up, I'm one of the admin in id.wikipedia. I've worked up a [https://quarry.wmflabs.org/query/15624 Quarry script] to detect those violating images and I've deleted all of them. There was around 2,000 of them but I suspect that it didn't cover all fairuse BLP images yet. Feel free to fork and/or improve the Quarry script. [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]] ([[User talk:Kenrick95|talk]]) 10:57, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
:I'm amazed at how much you've already achieved there.
:But idwiki is just one example (and perhaps one that is more capable of addressing it than average). Is there a desirable general approach to this issue, e.g., for a wiki with no (or many fewer) local admins? [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 06:26, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
::{{re|WhatamIdoing}} Yeah, you could fork my script by changing the wiki database name ("idwiki_p"), the fairuse category name ("Gambar_berlisensi_penggunaan_wajar"), and the BLP category name ("Orang_hidup") to the local names. [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]] ([[User talk:Kenrick95|talk]]) 00:43, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
:::Thanks, [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]]. I'm not very familiar with Quarry, but I might give it a try.
:::OTOH, I'm wondering whether a much more [[wikt:ham-fisted|ham-fisted]] approach would be appropriate, given that copyright violations are involved. For example, instead of manually reviewing and tagging hundreds or thousands of images, we could leave a general note to at a few Village Pumps to report problems. We could say that there are obviously problems, and if local admins don't report that it has been addressed to their satisfaction in <number of days>, then all of the local files will be deleted and uploading will be disabled.
:::Also, at wikis without any (active) local admins, uploading should probably be disabled anyway. (It may already be the case; I don't know.) [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 18:02, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
::::Funfact, we even have it on our recent changes for warning to them to review their own files (since year[s] ago), then do single warning for multiple files that uploaded by same person, not a single reply (except from the minority of the [still] active senior user, One of the reason why we muddling it so long, I even left same kind of warning on my own talkpage so every visitor will read it, we kinda wanted those old user return and tend to their own uploads/files)), of course because the files are so old, the person who own the account are also went inactive for year, I don't know how it is with en.wp or other Wikis, but this was the heritage from the old times when the old local laws still don't require user to to give any rationale for the upload. Number of days? More like number of years. Mass deletions are just last resort, not a good way but still a 'way', a better way to avoid legal liability. (Which kinda weird, it's almost complaining why a wiki being old is kinda bad).--[[User:Aldnonymous|AldNonymous]][[User talk:Aldnonymous|Bicara?]] 23:52, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

=== Improper content on Khmer-Wiki ===
{{Status|In progress}}

As raised the issue of the fact of being a not maintained wiki-page [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages here], before, and comming "back" to the most, for my person most obivious issue, [https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/វិគីភីឌា:ChatKhmer_for_Non-Khmer_Speakers Copyright violations - Tipitaka Khmer], my person likes to remark also here (on recommentation of a wikimedia-member), that it would be proper to act on it in the know cases but also to "insure" as much as possible, that there is a maintaining and care afterwards. Aware of the fact that it needs a lot of sacrify, may it be of best use for all and by those able and willing to act proper seen as a possibility for merits, if well done. --[[User:សមណៈយុហាន់|សមណៈយុហាន់]] ([[User talk:សមណៈយុហាន់|talk]]) 18:07, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
:Mr. [https://km.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សារបស់អ្នកប្រើប្រាស់:Holder Holder] generously and obligated, has started to work through it, sure for only one person and no additional support, also in teaching at the same time, might be a brudensome undertaking, possible at least with less gain for all involved benefit. --[[User:សមណៈយុហាន់|សមណៈយុហាន់]] ([[User talk:សមណៈយុហាន់|talk]]) 11:23, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|សមណៈយុហាន់}} I don't see that there is any request to be actioned by global admins or sysops, I believe that this request should be closed as not done. If you believe that there is existing actions, then please identify specific actions that are required at Khmer wiki. Thanks.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 06:16, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
::: denying or not, a giver has responsibility on his "gift" and it's not the case that having given birth to something is enough for release, yet at least nurishing on it. If abounding that a holding on strings makes what one would ever face as, direct or indirect as effects of carelessness. Neither to hold on nor to abound is thereby advocated, but just a "this requires that" or "with that, this will need to come along" so that it will not have bad effects for those act and willing to enjoy fruits. Ones own choices mr {{ping|billinghurst}}, ones own fruits from them, according to ones selected relations. No wishes, no demands, just pointing. Maybe just bringing "Note: When you edit this page, you agree to release your contribution under the CC0.", or likewise, to more awareness might help, on the other side, even with this words, my person could not confirm with it's requirement, since this is not given for any normal exchange or trade... but for release. May your good choices bring their fruits always quick and possible to trace, may bad choices effects to always bearable with ease and pull to better. {{Unsigned|សមណៈយុហាន់}}

=== OAuth approval request for ABS uploads ===
{{oauthapprequest
| status = not done
| appname = ABS uploads
| version = 1.0
| publisher = 99of9
| consumer_key = b22cc6197d408c25d54be4b88cd7fcec
}}
To switch my pywikipedia bot over to oauth. It seems like I need to do this now. --[[User:File Upload Bot (99of9)|File Upload Bot (99of9)]] ([[User talk:File Upload Bot (99of9)|talk]]) 13:16, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
:It looks like your client is owner-only. That should be auto-approved without manual approval. ("for owner-only consumers (which do not need to be reviewed or authorized but are only usable by yourself) @ [[:mw:OAuth/For Developers]]") Check it, please. — regards, [[User:-revi|Revi]] 14:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
::Ok, that's correct. Feel free to decline this then. --[[User:File Upload Bot (99of9)|File Upload Bot (99of9)]] ([[User talk:File Upload Bot (99of9)|talk]]) 14:09, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
:::Glad to hear that! — regards, [[User:-revi|Revi]] 14:14, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Ongoing disruption on Lak Wikipedia by ‎42.62.247.101 ===

{{Status|done}}
[[:w:lbe:]] - not sure what this IP is doing but they vandalize the project for the second day in a row. Probably in need in a long-term block. Thanks. --[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 12:06, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

:Globally blocked for 1 week. Thanks for reporting. [[User:Stryn|Stryn]] ([[User talk:Stryn|talk]]) 12:56, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Spam on to.wp ===

{{Status|done}}
[[:to:User:111.125.104.242|This page]] looks like spam. ([[Special:Diff/17919410|pointed here]] by [[User:Artix Kreiger|Artix Kreiger]]) --[[User:KockaAdmiralac|KockaAdmiralac]] ([[User talk:KockaAdmiralac|talk]]) 15:36, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Ruslik0|Ruslik]] ([[User talk:Ruslik0|talk]]) 17:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== User pages deletion ===
{{Status|not done}}
Could you please speedy delete all my user pages (that I had created before the Meta default user page)?

I repeat, please erase the page "User:JackPotte" on every wiki except for Meta. [[User:JackPotte|JackPotte]] ([[User talk:JackPotte|talk]]) 17:43, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

:Hi [[User:JackPotte]], if you have a user page on many projects it's probably better to ask the deletion at [[Synchbot]]. [[User:Stryn|Stryn]] ([[User talk:Stryn|talk]]) 17:49, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
::Thank you, I didn't know this process. So this request can be considered as done. [[User:JackPotte|JackPotte]] ([[User talk:JackPotte|talk]]) 17:50, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

===Use of testwiki for testing = all your stuff gets deleted.===
I have used testwiki for testing the MediaWiki software (which is what it is supposed to be used for). Recently, all of the stuff I put there post-2017 was deleted with the cryptic reason "Why". ("Why" indeed.) Could somebody please transwiki the deleted pages to <s>test2wiki</s> [https://simple.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page Deployment SimpleWiki], which appears to actually allow testing? (It could just be testing of admin tools, but that's unlikely, since if it was testing, it would have been undeleted already.) [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 22:33, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
:Have you attempted to discuss this with deleting admin [[testwiki:User_talk:Oshwah]] yet? — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 22:54, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
::That being said, the deletions do look like "content" and testwiki is '''[[testwiki:Wikipedia:What_Test_Wiki_is_not|not]]''' "A place to put content or anything meaningful". — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 22:56, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
::Also, test2wiki has a front page banner "don't expect anything to be kept." as well. — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 22:57, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
::I have changed my mind; please import [https://test.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page here] instead. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 00:10, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

== See also ==
* {{ll|Global sysops}}
* [[Steward handbook]]
{{/Archivefooter}}

[[Category:Multilingualism]]
[[Category:Wikimedia projects]]
{{RF}}

Steward requests/Miscellaneous

2018-04-07T23:43:58Z

Lojbanist: /* Use of testwiki for testing = all your stuff gets deleted. */

{{dynamite|title=:Steward requests/Miscellaneous/Header}}
__FORCETOC__




== Manual requests ==
Please see [[toollabs:stewardbots/hat-web-tool/delete.php|a list of pages nominated for speedy deletion]] via {{tl|Delete}} and/or the local equivalent. You can also [[toollabs:erwin85/delete.php|filter by wikis whose admins are less than X or have not delete since Y]].

=== Non-free content ===
{{Status|}}
Does anyone have an interest in [[Non-free content]] at wikis that have no exemption doctrine policy or that do not seem to be enforcing it properly? As an example of the latter, [[:w:id:Wikipedia:Penggunaan media nonbebas#Kebijakan gambar tokoh yang masih hidup]] appears to prohibit non-free images for BLPs, but [[:w:id:Istimewa:Daftar berkas]] seems to have more photos of BLPs than one might expect under such a policy. (Please ping me.) [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 06:50, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
:Sure, you can/should tag such violations with <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> and if the requests are not acted upon in a month or so you can ping global sysops/stewards here, as with [[#Speedy deletions on as/ms]]. [[User:Nemo bis|Nemo]] 12:09, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
{{ping|WhatamIdoing}} You mentioned id.wikipedia, which is a larger project and stewards can probably not edit there. There are 295 Wikipedias and of these there are ~85 Wikipedias [https://wikistats.wmflabs.org/display.php?t=wp&s=images_desc] having more than 1000 local files. In 2012 Nemo claimed 76 [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Non-free_content/taking_stock&oldid=4041742]. These Wikipedias often 1) have upload open for any logged-in user 2) host dozens of unused files 3) have lots of unfree files among the unused files, i.e. they are not EDP-files, since they lack an applicable rationale. Some Wikipedias have more than 1000 unused files, some more than 5000 – the counter stops then. Some have 20% of all files unused.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|+ Local files in Wikipedias
! Date || 1 Qty of projects || 2 Qty of projects w/o local files (100% Commons) || 3 Qty of projects having local files || 4 Qty of local files || 4/3 || Reference
|-
| 2013-01-01 || 285 || 36 || 249 || 2 038 148 || 8185 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=4949525#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2014-01-01 || 287 || 30 || 257 || 2 208 750 || 8594 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=6908984#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2015-01-01 || 288 || 30 || 258 || 2 311 679 || 8959 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=10866718#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2016-01-01 || 291 || 37 || 254 || 2 405 486 || 9470 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=15204235#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2017-01-01 || 295 || 140 || 155 || 2 430 156 || 15678 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=16197859#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2017-04-14 || 295 || 140 || 155 || 2 436 730 || 15720 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=16589959#Grand_Total]
|}

In the last ~4 years (2013-01-01 to today) the number of local files in Wikipedias increased by 391 925 from 2 038 148 to 2 430 073 [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&diff=16141749&oldid=4949525], i.e. ca. 100 000 per year. At the same time, the number of Wikipedias using local files decreased. The major part of the increase comes from the aforementioned 85 Wikipedias. Some are out of scope for stewards and SRM.

To stop the problem with non-free content in small, open-upload Wikipedias and the workload for stewards to become worse, one could restrict the upload to admins. That is not fixing current violations, but reducing chance for new violations and freeing steward resources.

Candidates for restriction are the following 40 Wikipedias, each has 9 or less admins and uploads still open: ksh, pfl, rm, wuu, nv, frr, als, vec, bar, zh-yue, an, mt, pa, km, ga, oc, bcl, as, ps, scn, eml, mn, ba, be-tarask, am, be, sw, wa, lb, ky, hi, kn, tt, my, si, jv, br, fy, ka, bs. [[Special:Contributions/92.227.229.171|92.227.229.171]] 01:37, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:This is the problem we currently face on id.wp, most of those files were PD-Gov, can be seen from the source links, but we are currently muddling if we should just transfer them to commons or just tag and add pd-gov license to it, but then again, there are thousands file need to be handled, we don't have enough hand. As for Stewards and GS, can close this request as this cannot be actioned by stewards or GS, whatamdoing can just come to id.wp to make this announcement/comment (again).--[[User:Aldnonymous|AldNonymous]][[User talk:Aldnonymous|Bicara?]] 19:34, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Just a heads up, I'm one of the admin in id.wikipedia. I've worked up a [https://quarry.wmflabs.org/query/15624 Quarry script] to detect those violating images and I've deleted all of them. There was around 2,000 of them but I suspect that it didn't cover all fairuse BLP images yet. Feel free to fork and/or improve the Quarry script. [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]] ([[User talk:Kenrick95|talk]]) 10:57, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
:I'm amazed at how much you've already achieved there.
:But idwiki is just one example (and perhaps one that is more capable of addressing it than average). Is there a desirable general approach to this issue, e.g., for a wiki with no (or many fewer) local admins? [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 06:26, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
::{{re|WhatamIdoing}} Yeah, you could fork my script by changing the wiki database name ("idwiki_p"), the fairuse category name ("Gambar_berlisensi_penggunaan_wajar"), and the BLP category name ("Orang_hidup") to the local names. [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]] ([[User talk:Kenrick95|talk]]) 00:43, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
:::Thanks, [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]]. I'm not very familiar with Quarry, but I might give it a try.
:::OTOH, I'm wondering whether a much more [[wikt:ham-fisted|ham-fisted]] approach would be appropriate, given that copyright violations are involved. For example, instead of manually reviewing and tagging hundreds or thousands of images, we could leave a general note to at a few Village Pumps to report problems. We could say that there are obviously problems, and if local admins don't report that it has been addressed to their satisfaction in <number of days>, then all of the local files will be deleted and uploading will be disabled.
:::Also, at wikis without any (active) local admins, uploading should probably be disabled anyway. (It may already be the case; I don't know.) [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 18:02, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
::::Funfact, we even have it on our recent changes for warning to them to review their own files (since year[s] ago), then do single warning for multiple files that uploaded by same person, not a single reply (except from the minority of the [still] active senior user, One of the reason why we muddling it so long, I even left same kind of warning on my own talkpage so every visitor will read it, we kinda wanted those old user return and tend to their own uploads/files)), of course because the files are so old, the person who own the account are also went inactive for year, I don't know how it is with en.wp or other Wikis, but this was the heritage from the old times when the old local laws still don't require user to to give any rationale for the upload. Number of days? More like number of years. Mass deletions are just last resort, not a good way but still a 'way', a better way to avoid legal liability. (Which kinda weird, it's almost complaining why a wiki being old is kinda bad).--[[User:Aldnonymous|AldNonymous]][[User talk:Aldnonymous|Bicara?]] 23:52, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

=== Improper content on Khmer-Wiki ===
{{Status|In progress}}

As raised the issue of the fact of being a not maintained wiki-page [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages here], before, and comming "back" to the most, for my person most obivious issue, [https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/វិគីភីឌា:ChatKhmer_for_Non-Khmer_Speakers Copyright violations - Tipitaka Khmer], my person likes to remark also here (on recommentation of a wikimedia-member), that it would be proper to act on it in the know cases but also to "insure" as much as possible, that there is a maintaining and care afterwards. Aware of the fact that it needs a lot of sacrify, may it be of best use for all and by those able and willing to act proper seen as a possibility for merits, if well done. --[[User:សមណៈយុហាន់|សមណៈយុហាន់]] ([[User talk:សមណៈយុហាន់|talk]]) 18:07, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
:Mr. [https://km.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សារបស់អ្នកប្រើប្រាស់:Holder Holder] generously and obligated, has started to work through it, sure for only one person and no additional support, also in teaching at the same time, might be a brudensome undertaking, possible at least with less gain for all involved benefit. --[[User:សមណៈយុហាន់|សមណៈយុហាន់]] ([[User talk:សមណៈយុហាន់|talk]]) 11:23, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|សមណៈយុហាន់}} I don't see that there is any request to be actioned by global admins or sysops, I believe that this request should be closed as not done. If you believe that there is existing actions, then please identify specific actions that are required at Khmer wiki. Thanks.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 06:16, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
::: denying or not, a giver has responsibility on his "gift" and it's not the case that having given birth to something is enough for release, yet at least nurishing on it. If abounding that a holding on strings makes what one would ever face as, direct or indirect as effects of carelessness. Neither to hold on nor to abound is thereby advocated, but just a "this requires that" or "with that, this will need to come along" so that it will not have bad effects for those act and willing to enjoy fruits. Ones own choices mr {{ping|billinghurst}}, ones own fruits from them, according to ones selected relations. No wishes, no demands, just pointing. Maybe just bringing "Note: When you edit this page, you agree to release your contribution under the CC0.", or likewise, to more awareness might help, on the other side, even with this words, my person could not confirm with it's requirement, since this is not given for any normal exchange or trade... but for release. May your good choices bring their fruits always quick and possible to trace, may bad choices effects to always bearable with ease and pull to better. {{Unsigned|សមណៈយុហាន់}}

=== OAuth approval request for ABS uploads ===
{{oauthapprequest
| status = not done
| appname = ABS uploads
| version = 1.0
| publisher = 99of9
| consumer_key = b22cc6197d408c25d54be4b88cd7fcec
}}
To switch my pywikipedia bot over to oauth. It seems like I need to do this now. --[[User:File Upload Bot (99of9)|File Upload Bot (99of9)]] ([[User talk:File Upload Bot (99of9)|talk]]) 13:16, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
:It looks like your client is owner-only. That should be auto-approved without manual approval. ("for owner-only consumers (which do not need to be reviewed or authorized but are only usable by yourself) @ [[:mw:OAuth/For Developers]]") Check it, please. — regards, [[User:-revi|Revi]] 14:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
::Ok, that's correct. Feel free to decline this then. --[[User:File Upload Bot (99of9)|File Upload Bot (99of9)]] ([[User talk:File Upload Bot (99of9)|talk]]) 14:09, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
:::Glad to hear that! — regards, [[User:-revi|Revi]] 14:14, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Ongoing disruption on Lak Wikipedia by ‎42.62.247.101 ===

{{Status|done}}
[[:w:lbe:]] - not sure what this IP is doing but they vandalize the project for the second day in a row. Probably in need in a long-term block. Thanks. --[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 12:06, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

:Globally blocked for 1 week. Thanks for reporting. [[User:Stryn|Stryn]] ([[User talk:Stryn|talk]]) 12:56, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Spam on to.wp ===

{{Status|done}}
[[:to:User:111.125.104.242|This page]] looks like spam. ([[Special:Diff/17919410|pointed here]] by [[User:Artix Kreiger|Artix Kreiger]]) --[[User:KockaAdmiralac|KockaAdmiralac]] ([[User talk:KockaAdmiralac|talk]]) 15:36, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Ruslik0|Ruslik]] ([[User talk:Ruslik0|talk]]) 17:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== User pages deletion ===
{{Status|not done}}
Could you please speedy delete all my user pages (that I had created before the Meta default user page)?

I repeat, please erase the page "User:JackPotte" on every wiki except for Meta. [[User:JackPotte|JackPotte]] ([[User talk:JackPotte|talk]]) 17:43, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

:Hi [[User:JackPotte]], if you have a user page on many projects it's probably better to ask the deletion at [[Synchbot]]. [[User:Stryn|Stryn]] ([[User talk:Stryn|talk]]) 17:49, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
::Thank you, I didn't know this process. So this request can be considered as done. [[User:JackPotte|JackPotte]] ([[User talk:JackPotte|talk]]) 17:50, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

===Use of testwiki for testing = all your stuff gets deleted.===
I have used testwiki for testing the MediaWiki software (which is what it is supposed to be used for). Recently, all of the stuff I put there post-2017 was deleted with the cryptic reason "Why". ("Why" indeed.) Could somebody please transwiki the deleted pages to <s>test2wiki</s> [https://simple.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page Deployment SimpleWiki], which appears to actually allow testing? (It could just be testing of admin tools, but that's unlikely, since if it was testing, it would have been undeleted already.) [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 22:33, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
:Have you attempted to discuss this with deleting admin [[testwiki:User_talk:Oshwah]] yet? — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 22:54, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
::That being said, the deletions do look like "content" and testwiki is '''[[testwiki:Wikipedia:What_Test_Wiki_is_not|not]]''' "A place to put content or anything meaningful". — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 22:56, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
::Also, test2wiki has a front page banner "don't expect anything to be kept." as well. — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 22:57, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

== See also ==
* {{ll|Global sysops}}
* [[Steward handbook]]
{{/Archivefooter}}

[[Category:Multilingualism]]
[[Category:Wikimedia projects]]
{{RF}}

Steward requests/Miscellaneous

2018-04-07T22:33:17Z

Lojbanist: /* Manual requests */

{{dynamite|title=:Steward requests/Miscellaneous/Header}}
__FORCETOC__




== Manual requests ==
Please see [[toollabs:stewardbots/hat-web-tool/delete.php|a list of pages nominated for speedy deletion]] via {{tl|Delete}} and/or the local equivalent. You can also [[toollabs:erwin85/delete.php|filter by wikis whose admins are less than X or have not delete since Y]].

=== Non-free content ===
{{Status|}}
Does anyone have an interest in [[Non-free content]] at wikis that have no exemption doctrine policy or that do not seem to be enforcing it properly? As an example of the latter, [[:w:id:Wikipedia:Penggunaan media nonbebas#Kebijakan gambar tokoh yang masih hidup]] appears to prohibit non-free images for BLPs, but [[:w:id:Istimewa:Daftar berkas]] seems to have more photos of BLPs than one might expect under such a policy. (Please ping me.) [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 06:50, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
:Sure, you can/should tag such violations with <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> and if the requests are not acted upon in a month or so you can ping global sysops/stewards here, as with [[#Speedy deletions on as/ms]]. [[User:Nemo bis|Nemo]] 12:09, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
{{ping|WhatamIdoing}} You mentioned id.wikipedia, which is a larger project and stewards can probably not edit there. There are 295 Wikipedias and of these there are ~85 Wikipedias [https://wikistats.wmflabs.org/display.php?t=wp&s=images_desc] having more than 1000 local files. In 2012 Nemo claimed 76 [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Non-free_content/taking_stock&oldid=4041742]. These Wikipedias often 1) have upload open for any logged-in user 2) host dozens of unused files 3) have lots of unfree files among the unused files, i.e. they are not EDP-files, since they lack an applicable rationale. Some Wikipedias have more than 1000 unused files, some more than 5000 – the counter stops then. Some have 20% of all files unused.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|+ Local files in Wikipedias
! Date || 1 Qty of projects || 2 Qty of projects w/o local files (100% Commons) || 3 Qty of projects having local files || 4 Qty of local files || 4/3 || Reference
|-
| 2013-01-01 || 285 || 36 || 249 || 2 038 148 || 8185 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=4949525#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2014-01-01 || 287 || 30 || 257 || 2 208 750 || 8594 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=6908984#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2015-01-01 || 288 || 30 || 258 || 2 311 679 || 8959 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=10866718#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2016-01-01 || 291 || 37 || 254 || 2 405 486 || 9470 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=15204235#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2017-01-01 || 295 || 140 || 155 || 2 430 156 || 15678 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=16197859#Grand_Total]
|-
| 2017-04-14 || 295 || 140 || 155 || 2 436 730 || 15720 || [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&oldid=16589959#Grand_Total]
|}

In the last ~4 years (2013-01-01 to today) the number of local files in Wikipedias increased by 391 925 from 2 038 148 to 2 430 073 [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Wikipedias/Table&diff=16141749&oldid=4949525], i.e. ca. 100 000 per year. At the same time, the number of Wikipedias using local files decreased. The major part of the increase comes from the aforementioned 85 Wikipedias. Some are out of scope for stewards and SRM.

To stop the problem with non-free content in small, open-upload Wikipedias and the workload for stewards to become worse, one could restrict the upload to admins. That is not fixing current violations, but reducing chance for new violations and freeing steward resources.

Candidates for restriction are the following 40 Wikipedias, each has 9 or less admins and uploads still open: ksh, pfl, rm, wuu, nv, frr, als, vec, bar, zh-yue, an, mt, pa, km, ga, oc, bcl, as, ps, scn, eml, mn, ba, be-tarask, am, be, sw, wa, lb, ky, hi, kn, tt, my, si, jv, br, fy, ka, bs. [[Special:Contributions/92.227.229.171|92.227.229.171]] 01:37, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:This is the problem we currently face on id.wp, most of those files were PD-Gov, can be seen from the source links, but we are currently muddling if we should just transfer them to commons or just tag and add pd-gov license to it, but then again, there are thousands file need to be handled, we don't have enough hand. As for Stewards and GS, can close this request as this cannot be actioned by stewards or GS, whatamdoing can just come to id.wp to make this announcement/comment (again).--[[User:Aldnonymous|AldNonymous]][[User talk:Aldnonymous|Bicara?]] 19:34, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Just a heads up, I'm one of the admin in id.wikipedia. I've worked up a [https://quarry.wmflabs.org/query/15624 Quarry script] to detect those violating images and I've deleted all of them. There was around 2,000 of them but I suspect that it didn't cover all fairuse BLP images yet. Feel free to fork and/or improve the Quarry script. [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]] ([[User talk:Kenrick95|talk]]) 10:57, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
:I'm amazed at how much you've already achieved there.
:But idwiki is just one example (and perhaps one that is more capable of addressing it than average). Is there a desirable general approach to this issue, e.g., for a wiki with no (or many fewer) local admins? [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 06:26, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
::{{re|WhatamIdoing}} Yeah, you could fork my script by changing the wiki database name ("idwiki_p"), the fairuse category name ("Gambar_berlisensi_penggunaan_wajar"), and the BLP category name ("Orang_hidup") to the local names. [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]] ([[User talk:Kenrick95|talk]]) 00:43, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
:::Thanks, [[User:Kenrick95|Kenrick95]]. I'm not very familiar with Quarry, but I might give it a try.
:::OTOH, I'm wondering whether a much more [[wikt:ham-fisted|ham-fisted]] approach would be appropriate, given that copyright violations are involved. For example, instead of manually reviewing and tagging hundreds or thousands of images, we could leave a general note to at a few Village Pumps to report problems. We could say that there are obviously problems, and if local admins don't report that it has been addressed to their satisfaction in <number of days>, then all of the local files will be deleted and uploading will be disabled.
:::Also, at wikis without any (active) local admins, uploading should probably be disabled anyway. (It may already be the case; I don't know.) [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 18:02, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
::::Funfact, we even have it on our recent changes for warning to them to review their own files (since year[s] ago), then do single warning for multiple files that uploaded by same person, not a single reply (except from the minority of the [still] active senior user, One of the reason why we muddling it so long, I even left same kind of warning on my own talkpage so every visitor will read it, we kinda wanted those old user return and tend to their own uploads/files)), of course because the files are so old, the person who own the account are also went inactive for year, I don't know how it is with en.wp or other Wikis, but this was the heritage from the old times when the old local laws still don't require user to to give any rationale for the upload. Number of days? More like number of years. Mass deletions are just last resort, not a good way but still a 'way', a better way to avoid legal liability. (Which kinda weird, it's almost complaining why a wiki being old is kinda bad).--[[User:Aldnonymous|AldNonymous]][[User talk:Aldnonymous|Bicara?]] 23:52, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

=== Improper content on Khmer-Wiki ===
{{Status|In progress}}

As raised the issue of the fact of being a not maintained wiki-page [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages here], before, and comming "back" to the most, for my person most obivious issue, [https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/វិគីភីឌា:ChatKhmer_for_Non-Khmer_Speakers Copyright violations - Tipitaka Khmer], my person likes to remark also here (on recommentation of a wikimedia-member), that it would be proper to act on it in the know cases but also to "insure" as much as possible, that there is a maintaining and care afterwards. Aware of the fact that it needs a lot of sacrify, may it be of best use for all and by those able and willing to act proper seen as a possibility for merits, if well done. --[[User:សមណៈយុហាន់|សមណៈយុហាន់]] ([[User talk:សមណៈយុហាន់|talk]]) 18:07, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
:Mr. [https://km.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សារបស់អ្នកប្រើប្រាស់:Holder Holder] generously and obligated, has started to work through it, sure for only one person and no additional support, also in teaching at the same time, might be a brudensome undertaking, possible at least with less gain for all involved benefit. --[[User:សមណៈយុហាន់|សមណៈយុហាន់]] ([[User talk:សមណៈយុហាន់|talk]]) 11:23, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|សមណៈយុហាន់}} I don't see that there is any request to be actioned by global admins or sysops, I believe that this request should be closed as not done. If you believe that there is existing actions, then please identify specific actions that are required at Khmer wiki. Thanks.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 06:16, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
::: denying or not, a giver has responsibility on his "gift" and it's not the case that having given birth to something is enough for release, yet at least nurishing on it. If abounding that a holding on strings makes what one would ever face as, direct or indirect as effects of carelessness. Neither to hold on nor to abound is thereby advocated, but just a "this requires that" or "with that, this will need to come along" so that it will not have bad effects for those act and willing to enjoy fruits. Ones own choices mr {{ping|billinghurst}}, ones own fruits from them, according to ones selected relations. No wishes, no demands, just pointing. Maybe just bringing "Note: When you edit this page, you agree to release your contribution under the CC0.", or likewise, to more awareness might help, on the other side, even with this words, my person could not confirm with it's requirement, since this is not given for any normal exchange or trade... but for release. May your good choices bring their fruits always quick and possible to trace, may bad choices effects to always bearable with ease and pull to better. {{Unsigned|សមណៈយុហាន់}}

=== OAuth approval request for ABS uploads ===
{{oauthapprequest
| status = not done
| appname = ABS uploads
| version = 1.0
| publisher = 99of9
| consumer_key = b22cc6197d408c25d54be4b88cd7fcec
}}
To switch my pywikipedia bot over to oauth. It seems like I need to do this now. --[[User:File Upload Bot (99of9)|File Upload Bot (99of9)]] ([[User talk:File Upload Bot (99of9)|talk]]) 13:16, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
:It looks like your client is owner-only. That should be auto-approved without manual approval. ("for owner-only consumers (which do not need to be reviewed or authorized but are only usable by yourself) @ [[:mw:OAuth/For Developers]]") Check it, please. — regards, [[User:-revi|Revi]] 14:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
::Ok, that's correct. Feel free to decline this then. --[[User:File Upload Bot (99of9)|File Upload Bot (99of9)]] ([[User talk:File Upload Bot (99of9)|talk]]) 14:09, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
:::Glad to hear that! — regards, [[User:-revi|Revi]] 14:14, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Ongoing disruption on Lak Wikipedia by ‎42.62.247.101 ===

{{Status|done}}
[[:w:lbe:]] - not sure what this IP is doing but they vandalize the project for the second day in a row. Probably in need in a long-term block. Thanks. --[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 12:06, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

:Globally blocked for 1 week. Thanks for reporting. [[User:Stryn|Stryn]] ([[User talk:Stryn|talk]]) 12:56, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== Spam on to.wp ===

{{Status|done}}
[[:to:User:111.125.104.242|This page]] looks like spam. ([[Special:Diff/17919410|pointed here]] by [[User:Artix Kreiger|Artix Kreiger]]) --[[User:KockaAdmiralac|KockaAdmiralac]] ([[User talk:KockaAdmiralac|talk]]) 15:36, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Ruslik0|Ruslik]] ([[User talk:Ruslik0|talk]]) 17:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

=== User pages deletion ===
{{Status|not done}}
Could you please speedy delete all my user pages (that I had created before the Meta default user page)?

I repeat, please erase the page "User:JackPotte" on every wiki except for Meta. [[User:JackPotte|JackPotte]] ([[User talk:JackPotte|talk]]) 17:43, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

:Hi [[User:JackPotte]], if you have a user page on many projects it's probably better to ask the deletion at [[Synchbot]]. [[User:Stryn|Stryn]] ([[User talk:Stryn|talk]]) 17:49, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
::Thank you, I didn't know this process. So this request can be considered as done. [[User:JackPotte|JackPotte]] ([[User talk:JackPotte|talk]]) 17:50, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

===Use of testwiki for testing = all your stuff gets deleted.===
I have used testwiki for testing the MediaWiki software (which is what it is supposed to be used for). Recently, all of the stuff I put there post-2017 was deleted with the cryptic reason "Why". ("Why" indeed.) Could somebody please transwiki the deleted pages to test2wiki, which appears to actually allow testing? (It could just be testing of admin tools, but that's unlikely, since if it was testing, it would have been undeleted already.) [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 22:33, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

== See also ==
* {{ll|Global sysops}}
* [[Steward handbook]]
{{/Archivefooter}}

[[Category:Multilingualism]]
[[Category:Wikimedia projects]]
{{RF}}

WikiMiscellanea

2018-04-07T22:20:01Z

Lojbanist:

{{New sister project proposal
| status = discussion
| project_name = WikiMiscellanea
| project_description = This would be a project to store stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else in Wikimedia (articles about yourself, collaborative fiction, etc.)
| multilingual_wiki = One multilingual wiki
| multilingual = Multilingual
| technical_reqs = Same extensions as every other WMF wiki

| url = wikimiscellanea.org
| logo = [[File:WiktLogo-Bubble-Infinity-blue.svg|thumb]]
| development_wiki = <s>[https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiMiscellanea On Testwiki]</s> Forgot admins can also test [[:testwiki:Special:Log/delete|their tools]] there.
| participants = [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
}}

This would be a project to store stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else in Wikimedia (articles about yourself, collaborative fiction, etc.). It would benefit Wikimedia in many ways; for example, transwiki-ing autobio drafts to WikiMiscellanea would reduce the backlog on enwiki MFD. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

==Proposed by==
[[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

==Alternative names==
WikiMiscellany, WikiNoneOfTheAbove, WikiAnything, WikiEverything

==Related projects/proposals==
None.

==Domain names==
wikimiscellanea.org

==Mailing list links==
<s>KATMAKROFAN</s> Lojbanist can't into mailinglist.

==Demos==
[https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiMiscellanea Testwiki]

==People interested==

[[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)


[[Category:Proposed projects]]

WikiMiscellanea

2018-04-07T22:19:45Z

Lojbanist:

{{New sister project proposal
| status = discussion
| project_name = WikiMiscellanea
| project_description = This would be a project to store stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else in Wikimedia (articles about yourself, collaborative fiction, etc.)
| multilingual_wiki = One multilingual wiki
| multilingual = Multilingual
| technical_reqs = Same extensions as every other WMF wiki

| url = wikimiscellanea.org
| logo = [[File:WiktLogo-Bubble-Infinity-blue.svg|thumb]]
| development_wiki = <s>[https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiMiscellanea On Testwiki]</s> Forgot admins can also test [[:test:Special:Log/delete|their tools]] there.
| participants = [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
}}

This would be a project to store stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else in Wikimedia (articles about yourself, collaborative fiction, etc.). It would benefit Wikimedia in many ways; for example, transwiki-ing autobio drafts to WikiMiscellanea would reduce the backlog on enwiki MFD. [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

==Proposed by==
[[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

==Alternative names==
WikiMiscellany, WikiNoneOfTheAbove, WikiAnything, WikiEverything

==Related projects/proposals==
None.

==Domain names==
wikimiscellanea.org

==Mailing list links==
<s>KATMAKROFAN</s> Lojbanist can't into mailinglist.

==Demos==
[https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiMiscellanea Testwiki]

==People interested==

[[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 08:41, 30 March 2018 (UTC)


[[Category:Proposed projects]]

Content disclaimer parody

2018-04-04T03:23:50Z

Lojbanist:

<div style="text-align: center; font-size: x-large; padding: 1em;">WIKIPEDIA CONTAINS CONTENT THAT MAY BE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY APPALLING</div>

In its encyclopedic function, Wikipedia contains dozens of articles on several topics. A relatively small fraction of these topics (1/2 is a small fraction, right?) are frequently censored by educational, federal, state, county, corporate, parental, tribal, piscatorial, ponzi, and other schemes.

*Some Wikipedia articles discuss words or language that are considered profane, vulgar, or offensive by some readers. For example, our article on [[Wikipedia:Saint Alda|Saint Alda]] contains the terms "cocksucking whore", "pope-fucker", "ignorant little cunt", and "fucking little goody-two-shoes" (we don't like Saint Alda very much). [[Wikipedia:Service awards|Other pages]] contain objectionable terms such as "tutnum", "kipzock", "togneme", and "looshpah". One article contains a word that, if you read it, your brains will come out through your nose. (If you find this article, have your next of kin notify us and we will send a card.) Also, by policy, every Wikipedia article contains the word "lobster" worked in somehow (and believe us, it's not always easy).
*Articles may contain audio, visual, or written representations of people or events which may be protected by some cultures. For example: we include a graphic description of the Death of Superman, even though in the culture of most Wikipedians this was a traumatic event which is normally never allowed to be spoken of.
*Wikipedia contains many different images, some of which are considered objectionable or offensive by some readers. For example, some articles contain graphical depictions of violence, or depictions of human anatomy. And animal anatomy. And alien anatomy (just don't ask us where got those). And people eating kittens. And people eating aliens (do ''not'' ask us where we got those). And one article has a picture of guy - get this - with his johnson caught in a water pump for a 1963 Ford Fairlane. It doesn't really belong in the article (which is [[Wikipedia:Parliamentary Franchise in the United Kingdom 1885–1918|Parliamentary Franchise in the United Kingdom 1885–1918]]), but we thought it was bitchin' so we put it in anyway. Because we can do whatever we want. Did we mention that?
*Many articles contain frank and pointless discussion of controversial topics. Some subjects that are discussed have criminal applications in some jurisdictions. What the fuck does that mean? That is in the actual disclaimer: "Some subjects that are discussed have criminal applications". Do we have articles on how to abuse animals? How to waylay and kill the Secretary of Transportation? We probably do. Anyway. Other articles contain information on dangerous or otherwise risky activities (for example, the articles [[Wikipedia:Coat of arms of Schleswig|Go ahead, tell your wife she could stand to lose ten pounds]] and [[Wikipedia:Suicide|How to kill yourself, right now, without getting up from the computer]]).
*Wikipedia contains spoilers. You know - ''Titanic'': the boat sinks. ''The Bible'': He gets crucified and dies (but not really!). That sort of thing.
*Wikipedia may contain triggers for people with standards, intelligence, or taste. If complete and utterly idiotic drivel makes you foam at the mouth, repeatedly bang your forehead on the table, or fall down dead, you should not read Wikipedia. See [[Wikipedia:List of lists of lists|List of lists of lists]].
*Wikipedia may contain images and videos which can trigger certain medical conditions, including but not limited to: smallpox, scurvy, glossolalia; the vapors, the creeps, the crummies, the screaming mimis; plague, famine, stigmata, knee trembling, finger snapping, happy feet; tennis elbow, golfer's knee, congressman's mouth; chronic idiocy, mumps, myalgia, hebephrenia; sudden pork butt syndrome; the trots, the dumps, the plops, the galloping shits; the Irish problem, the Persian question, the Polish corridor; pestilence, genetic drift, uncontrollable rioting, rapid population growth; invisible hand disease; rampant ignorance, unjustified feelings of adequacy, contagious kleptomania; liver flukes, river blindness, combat fatigue, incurable dog breath; and just-plain-dead syndrome.
*Since Wikipedia is open to contributions from the public, there may at any time be reasonable and intelligent content present on Wikipedia. However, this is reverted as soon as detected.
*There may be medical, legal, philosophical, metaphysical, or other information that is normally also the subject of professional opinions; Wikipedia is not a substitute for seeking the help of a professional, friend, enemy, cousin, neighbor, or random stranger. ''Please note'': Wikipedia does not give advice on carpentry, model railroading, taxidermy, how to teach a giraffe to speak Turkish, or how to boil cats alive. OK, we do give advice on how to boil cats alive. But only for scholarly purposes.
*The MediaWiki software used on Wikipedia contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects, and/or other reproductive harm. Do not taunt MediaWiki. Batteries not included.

Wikipedia's current policy is to include such content, provided it breaches neither any of our existing [[Wikipedia:policies and guidelines|policies]] nor the laws of the [[Wikipedia:Tuvan People's Republic|Tuvan People's Republic]], where Wikipedia is hosted, nor the [[Wikipedia:Law of the Sea|Law of the Sea]], nor the [[Wikipedia:Code Napoleon|Code Napoleon]], nor the [[Wikipedia:Law of the jungle|Law of the jungle]], nor the student honor code of [[Wikipedia:George Washington High School (Danville, Virginia)|George Washington High School in Danville, Virginia]], nor the strictures of the [[Wikipedia:Church of Satan|Church of Lord Satan]]. Employees must wash hands after reading Wikipedia.

In any case, Wikipedia is a work in progress, and many articles contain [[wikipedia:Accuracy dispute|errors]], [[Wikipedia:NPOV dispute|bias]], [[Wikipedia:Merging and moving pages|duplication]], [[Wikipedia:Idiocy|rank uncontrollable insane idiocy]], or simply need [[Wikipedia:Deletion|to be smashed to pieces, and the pieces burned to ashes, and the ashes scattered]]. We encourage readers to bring us a snack and maybe some coffee (cream, no sugar, thanks) while we fix these problems. The great majority of articles are written primarily or solely by individuals who are not subject matter experts (this is putting it mildly), and may lack academic or professional credentials in the area, in the sense that their highest level of schooling was 7th grade and their profession is crash test dummy. And the remainder are written by evil dogs that lurk in the forest, which is probably an improvement.

Wikipedia contains obscure information that would not be covered in a conventional encyclopedia. Hell, Wikipedia contains obscure information that would probably not be covered in [[Wikipedia:The Library of Babel|Borges's library]]. Wikipedia's coverage is based on the [[Wikipedia:Pornography|interests of its volunteer contributors]]. Readers should not judge the importance of topics based on [[Wikipedia:Fictional history of Spider-Man|their coverage]] in Wikipedia, nor assume that a topic is important merely because it is the subject of a Wikipedia article. Why are we telling you this? If you need to be told that [[Wikipedia:Squiddly Diddly|Squiddly Diddly]] is not an important topic, you are a hopeless cretin, right? Welcome to Wikipedia!

[[Category:Humor]]