Meta-Wiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:Hjfocs

2020-03-17T05:05:33Z

LeadSongDog: /* OpenLibrary */R

Hi Marco - can you drop me an email or find me on Telegram to let me know your dad’s name as I need to put him on the list for SFMOMA. Thanks!

==Feel free to get in touch with me here!==

Hey Marco!

I am the founder of the project "WorldBrain - Verifying the Internet with Science" (worldbrain.io).
Our goal is to develop a browser plugin, that shows you how trustworthy news articles are based on how the represent scientifically verifiable facts.
The first step towards this is a bookmarking and meta-browsing tool for science communicators.
It will allow users to retrieve related content and meta information to the content they currently consume.
One of the first features will be the highlighting and linking of terms in web content that can be referenced with Wikipedia/Wikidata entries.

Daniel Mietchen pointed me to your project and it seems that we follow very similar goals.

It would be great to have a chat in the coming days, if that sounds interesting for you
My email address is: oli@worldbrain.io

Looking forward to your answer.
Oliver

== StrepHit ==

Ciao, metto giú alcuni punti citati ieri.
* Per [[wm2016:Submissions]], probabilmente il tuo punto principale è sulla fonte dell'autorevolezza/affidabilità: per Wikidata come per Wikipedia, deriva dalla fiducia nel processo. Tu proponi un processo che generi nuova fiducia/affidabilità nei dati ''in fieri'' di Wikidata.
* [https://tools.wmflabs.org/mix-n-match/?mode=catalog&catalog=1#the_start] / [[w:en:User:Charles Matthews]]. Altre fonti di biografie molto usate: [https://tools.wmflabs.org/mix-n-match/?mode=catalog&catalog=25&offset=0&show_noq=0&show_autoq=0&show_userq=1&show_na=0#the_start] [https://tools.wmflabs.org/mix-n-match/?mode=catalog&catalog=47&offset=0&show_noq=0&show_autoq=0&show_userq=1&show_na=0#the_start] [https://tools.wmflabs.org/mix-n-match/?mode=catalog&catalog=90&offset=0&show_noq=0&show_autoq=0&show_userq=1&show_na=0#the_start] anche in Wikisource: [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionary_of_National_Biography,_1885-1900] [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Category:Biographical_dictionaries] [https://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2013/02/victorian-era-dictionary-of-national-biography-digitised-on-wikisource/].
* Proprietà famose: [[d:Wikidata:Database reports/List of properties/Top100]], [http://tools.wmflabs.org/wd-analyst/ref.php?p=P143&q=Q328&pp=], [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:ExternalUse] ecc.
* [[d:Q11985372]], [[w:en:Category:Templates using data from Wikidata]]
* [[commons:User:Open Access Media Importer Bot]]
[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 09:21, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
:A (s)proposito, se pensassi di espanderti a un'altra lingua me la sento di sconsigliarti il francese! Questo è un esempio di tempesta che vuoi evitare: [[w:fr:Wikipédia:Bot/Statut#ListeriaBot]]. [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 12:45, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

== ''Facto Post'' – Issue 1 – 14 June 2017 ==

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| ''Facto Post'' – Issue 1 – 14 June 2017

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<div style="position: absolute; top: -20px; right: -12px; background-color: white; border: 3px solid black; padding:10px;">[[File:Content mine logo.png|100px|link=]]</div>
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;Editorial
This newsletter starts with the motto "common endeavour for 21st century content". To unpack that slogan somewhat, we are particularly interested in the new, post-Wikidata collection of techniques that are flourishing under the Wikimedia collaborative umbrella. To linked data, SPARQL queries and WikiCite, add gamified participation, text mining and new holding areas, with bots, tech and humans working harmoniously.

Scientists, librarians and Wikimedians are coming together and providing a more unified view of an emerging area. Further integration of both its community and its technical aspects can be anticipated.

While Wikipedia will remain the discursive heart of Wikimedia, data-rich and semantic content will support it. We'll aim to be both broad and selective in our coverage. This publication ''[[wikt:ex post facto|Facto Post]]'' (the very opposite of [[wikt:retroactive|retroactive]]) and call to action are brought to you monthly by [http://contentmine.org/ ContentMine].

;Links

*[http://moore.libraries.cam.ac.uk/meet-your-wikimedian-residence ''Engaging with Data''] blogposts around [[m:Grants:Project/ContentMine/WikiFactMine|WikiFactMine]]
*[http://www.openscienceradio.de/2017/05/30/osr085-wikicite-2017-interview-with-carly-strasser-en/ Carly Strasser talks to Open Science Radio]
*Thoughtful WikiCite blogs including discussion of data models on Wikidata:
**[http://blog.hatnote.com/post/161358369742/wikicite-2017-and-the-7-features-wikidata-needs <nowiki>{{Hatnote}},</nowiki> ''Wikicite 2017, and the 7 features Wikidata needs most'']
**[https://ndsrbhl.wordpress.com/2017/06/06/the-role-of-librarians-in-wikidata-and-wikicite/ Katie Mika, Ernst Mayr Library, ''The role of librarians in Wikidata and Wikicite'']
*Fact mining in the digital humanities: [[User:Andrew Gray|Andrew Gray]], [http://6dfb.tumblr.com/ ''Introducing: Six Degrees on Wikidata'']
*A predecessor: [[:en:Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter/Past issues|Project X newsletter archive]]

<center>Editor [[User:Charles Matthews]]. Please leave feedback for him.</center>
<hr>
{{center
| ''If you wish to receive issues of ''Facto Post'' on English Wikipedia, please add your name to [[:en:Wikipedia:Facto Post mailing list|our mailing list]]. You can always remove it. Newsletter delivered there by [[:en:User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]
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|}
[[User:Charles Matthews|Charles Matthews]] ([[User talk:Charles Matthews|talk]]) 14:22, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

== Wikidata Entity Linking ==

Hi!
I am trying to make a map of the exinsting Entity Linking services that can output Wikidata identifiers. Of course most systems that output Wikipedia links can be converted a posteriori to return Qids (by using sitelinks) but I am interested in systems that deal with Wikidata specifically (i.e. which would be able to output Wikidata items which do not have any sitelinks).
I saw that in StrepHit you use the Dandelion API. Are you happy with it, and are you aware of any alternatives?
Thanks! − [[User:Pintoch|Pintoch]] ([[User talk:Pintoch|talk]]) 13:08, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
:{{ping|Pintoch}} I've massively used Wikipedia entity linking services in the past, but as of today I've not explored any that directly output Wikidata identifiers. For StrepHit, I'm pretty much satisfied with the Dandelion APIs, although it doesn't output QIDs.
:Pasting below an old list of services that I've tried so far (and are still alive):
* http://www.opencalais.com/opencalais-demo/
* http://www.intelligenceapi.com/demo/
* http://babelfy.org/
* https://www.textrazor.com/demo
* http://www.txt-werk.de/
* http://nerd.eurecom.fr/documentation
* http://demo.dbpedia-spotlight.org/
* https://bitbucket.org/fbk/twm-lib and https://bitbucket.org/cgiuliano/twm-service
Hope you can find your way there! Cheers, --[[User:Hjfocs|Hjfocs]] ([[User talk:Hjfocs#top|talk]]) 10:33, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

== Structured Data on Commons Newsletter, July 19, 2017 ==

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Welcome to the newsletter for '''Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons'''! You can [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Structured Data on Commons|update your subscription to the newsletter]]. Do inform others who you think will want to be involved in the project!

===Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons?===

The millions of files on [https://commons.wikimedia.org '''Wikimedia Commons'''] are described with a lot of information or '''(meta)data'''. With the project [[c:Commons:Structured data|Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons]], this data is '''structured''' more, and is made '''machine-readable'''. This will make it easier to view, search (also multilingually), edit, organize and re-use the files on Commons.

In early 2017, the Sloan Foundation funded this project ([[c:Commons:Structured data/Sloan Grant|see documentation]]). Development takes place in 2017–2020. It involves staff from the Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia Deutschland (WMDE) and many volunteers. To achieve this, [[mw:Wikibase|Wikibase]] support is added to Wikimedia Commons. Wikibase is the technology that is also used for [https://www.wikidata.org Wikidata].

===Recent developments: groundwork===

* A new and crucial [[c:Commons_talk:Structured_data#New_step_towards_structured_data_for_Commons_is_now_available:_federation|technical step ('''federation''')]] now makes it possible to reference data from one Wikibase website in another. Because of this, it will be possible to use Wikidata's items and properties to describe media files on Commons.
* Another important piece of groundwork is under development: so-called [[mw:Requests for comment/Multi-Content Revisions|'''Multi-Content Revisions''']]. This feature allows structured data to be stored alongside wiki text, so that one wiki page can contain several types of content.

===Team updates===

* [[m:User:Abittaker (WMF)|Amanda Bittaker]] was hired as '''Program Manager''' for Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons. Amanda will take care of the overall management of the project.
* [[m:User:SandraF (WMF)|Sandra Fauconnier]] (known as [[m:Special:CentralAuth/Spinster|Spinster]] in her volunteer capacity) is the new '''Community Liaison'''. She will support the collaboration between the communities (Commons, Wikidata, GLAM) and the product development teams at the Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia Deutschland.
* We have '''open positions''' for a '''[https://boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/673916 UX designer]''' and a '''[https://boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/609403 Product Manager]!'''

===Talking with communities and allies===

* '''Long-term feedback from GLAMs'''. Besides the Wikimedia community, many external cultural and knowledge institutions (GLAMs - Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums) are interested in Structured Data on Commons and are willing to provide feedback on the long-term plans for the project. [[m:User:Astinson (WMF)|Alex Stinson]], GLAM strategist at the Wikimedia Foundation, is currently in contact with Europeana, DPLA, the Smithsonian and the National Archives of the United States. Alex is also looking for other GLAM institutions who might be able to advise on the long term. If you know of an institution or partner that may be appropriate for consultation, do get in touch with Alex.
* [[m:User:Jmorgan (WMF)|Jonathan Morgan]], design researcher, is starting to work on two projects:
** [[m:Research:Supporting_Commons_contribution_by_GLAM_institutions|Researching batch upload workflows]] by interviewing '''GLAM institutions'''
** Researching the enrichment, organization and improvement tasks on already uploaded media files by engaging with '''active Commons contributors'''. This research follows up on [[c:file:HeavyCommonsUserQualitativeResearch.pdf|existing research by Wikimedia Deutschland]] on heavy Commons users.

===What comes next?===

* The Structured Data on Commons team meets in the week after Wikimania to lay the groundwork for the next steps. This includes '''new backend development and design work''', for better and more clear integration of the structured data in pages on Wikimedia Commons.
* The '''project's information pages on Wikimedia Commons''' will receive a long overdue update in the upcoming months. The team will also work on more and better communication channels. Feedback, wishes and tips are welcome at [[c:Commons talk:Structured data|the project's general talk page]].

===Get involved===

* Join us at [[wm2017:Wikimania|'''Wikimania''']]! We are present at the hackathon, and there will be a session on Saturday, August 12: [[wm2017:Submissions/Structured_Commons:_what_changes_are_coming?|Structured Commons: what changes are coming?]]
* Follow the Structured Data on Commons project on '''Phabricator''': https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/34/
* [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Structured Data on Commons|Subscribe to this newsletter]] to receive it on a talk page of your own choice.
* Do you want to help out translating messages about Structured Data on Commons from English to your own language? Sign up on the [[m:Structured Data on Commons/Newsletter/Translators|translators page]].
* Stay tuned for requests for input, discussion and participation as soon as the info portal is refreshed (see above). These will also be announced via this newsletter.

Many greetings from [[m:User:SandraF (WMF)|SandraF (WMF)]] ([[m:User talk:SandraF (WMF)|talk]]), Community Liaison for this project! 13:55, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
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== Structured Commons newsletter, October 25, 2017 ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">
''Welcome to the newsletter for '''Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons'''! You can [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Structured Data on Commons|update your subscription to the newsletter]]. Do inform others who you think will want to be involved in the project!''

;Community updates

* [[c:User:Rama|Rama]] published an '''article about Structured Commons''' in Arbido, a Swiss online magazine for archivists, librarians and documentalists: [http://arbido.ch/fr/edition-article/2017/metadonn%C3%A9es-donn%C3%A9es-de-qualit%C3%A9/donn%C3%A9es-structur%C3%A9es-la-puissance-de-wikidata-au-service-de-wikimedia-commons original in French, illustrated] and [[c:User:Rama/Structured Data|the article translated in English]].
* We now have a '''dedicated IRC channel''': [irc://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-commons-sd wikimedia-commons-sd] [https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-commons-sd webchat]

;[[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved|Things to do / input and feedback requests]]

* Join the [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Community_focus_group|'''community focus group''']]!
* '''Translation'''. Do you want to help out translating messages about Structured Data on Commons from English to your own language? Sign up on the [[m:Structured Data on Commons/Newsletter/Translators|translators page]].
* The '''[[c:Commons:Structured data|documentation and info pages about Structured Data on Commons]]''' have received a thorough update, in order to get them ready for all the upcoming work. Obsolete pages were archived. There are undoubtedly still a lot of omissions and bits that are unclear. You can help by editing boldly, and by leaving feedback and tips on the talk pages.
* We have started to '''[[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Tools|list tools, gadgets and bots]]''' that might be affected by Structured Commons in order to prepare for a smooth transition to the new situation. You can help by adding alerts about/to specific tools and developers [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Tools|on the dedicated tools page]]. You can also [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T173971 create Phabricator tasks] to help keep track of this. Volunteers and developers interested in helping out with this process are extremely welcome - [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Tools|please sign up]]!
* Help write '''[[m:Structured Data on Commons/Newsletter/Next|the next Structured Commons newsletter]]'''.

;[[c:Commons:Structured_data/About/Press_and_presentations|Presentations / Press / Events]]

[[File:Wikimania 2017 Structured Data on Commons 01.jpg|thumb|Audience at Structured Commons design discussion, Wikimania 2017]]
* Structured Data on Commons was presented at '''Wikimania 2017''' in Montréal for a packed room. First design sketches for search functionality were discussed during a breakout session. Read the Etherpad reports of [https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Wikimedia2017-StructuredDataPresentation the presentation] and [https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Wikimedia2017-StructuredDataDesignDiscussion the breakout session].
* '''Katherine Maher''', Executive Director of the Wikimedia Foundation, [https://www.quora.com/session/Katherine-Maher/1 '''answered questions on Quora''']. [https://www.quora.com/Whats-your-take-on-VideoWiki-building-a-multi-media-encyclopedia One of her answers], mentioning Structured Data on Commons, [https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wikipedia-is-working-on-making-its-treasure-troves_us_59d2e800e4b03905538d17ea was republished on Huffington Post].
* Sandra Fauconnier, Amanda Bittaker and Ramsey Isler from the Structured Commons team will be at '''WikidataCon'''. Sandra [[d:Wikidata:WikidataCon_2017/Submissions/Structured_Data_on_Wikimedia_Commons:_what's_coming,_and_how_to_be_involved_as_Wikidatans|presents Structured Commons there]] (with a focus on fruitful collaboration between the Wikidata and Commons communities). If you attend the conference, don't hesitate to say hi and have a chat with us! ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T176858 phabricator task T176858])

;Team updates

[[File:Portrait and two axis exercise.jpg|thumb|The Structured Commons team at Wikimania 2017]]
Two new people have been hired for the Structured Data on Commons team. We are now complete! :-)
* '''Ramsey Isler''' is the new Product Manager of the Multimedia team.
* '''Pamela Drouin''' was hired as User Interface Designer. She works at the Multimedia team as well, and her work will focus on the Structured Commons project.

;Partners and allies

* We are still welcoming (more) '''staff from GLAMs''' (Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums) to become part of our '''long-term focus group''' ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T174134 phabricator task T174134]). You will be kept in the loop of the project, and receive regular small surveys and requests for feedback. Get in touch with [[c:User:SandraF (WMF)|Sandra]] if you're interested - your input in helping to shape this project is highly valued!

;Research

'''[https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Technology/Goals/2017-18_Q2#Segment_4:_Programs Design research]''' is ongoing.
* Jonathan Morgan and Niharika Ved have held '''interviews with various GLAM staff''' about their batch upload workflows and will finish and report on these in this quarter. ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T159495 phabricator task T159495])
* At this moment, there is also an '''[https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_7WDA2RZvPDuaV7f online survey for GLAM staff]''', Wikimedians in Residence, and GLAM volunteers who upload media collections to Wikimedia Commons. The results will be used to understand how we can improve this experience. ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T175188 phabricator task T175188])
* Upcoming: '''interviews with Wikimedia volunteers''' who curate media on Commons (including tool developers), talking about activities and workflows. ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T175185 phabricator task T175185])

;[[c:Commons:Structured_data/Development|Development]]

In Autumn 2017, the Structured Commons development team works on the following major tasks (see also the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Audiences/2017-18_Q2_Goals#Programs quarterly goals for the team]):

* Getting '''Multi-Content Revisions''' sufficiently ready, so that the Multimedia and Search Platform teams can start using it to test and prototype things.
* Determine '''metrics and metrics baseline''' for Commons ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T174519 phabricator task T174519]).
* The multimedia team at WMF is gaining expertise in '''Wikibase''', and unblocking further development for Structured Commons, by completing the '''MediaInfo extension''' for Wikibase.

;Stay up to date!

* Follow the Structured Data on Commons project on '''Phabricator''': https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/34/
* [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Structured Data on Commons|Subscribe to this '''newsletter''']] to receive it on a talk page of your own choice.
* Join the next '''[[m:IRC office hours#Upcoming office hours|IRC office hour]]''' and ask questions to the team! It takes place on Tuesday 21 November, 18.00 UTC.

Warmly, your community liaison, [[c:User:SandraF (WMF)|SandraF (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SandraF (WMF)|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]])

''Message sent by [[m:User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] - 14:26, 25 October 2017 (UTC)''
</div>


== Iscrizione itWikiCon ==

Ciao, ti scrivo perché hai manifestato l'intenzione di [[:m:ItWikiCon/2017/Partecipanti|partecipare]] a itWikiCon 2017. L'evento si avvicina: il programma è disponibile [[:m:ItWikiCon/2017/Programma|in questa pagina]]. Se confermi la tua partecipazione ti chiediamo di compilare [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdFo8ZWyfxTZD9bJio_gWlHyhElBT8J2MulHw_gcSJ5YZWbdA/viewform questo form] entro il 14 novembre. Ci vediamo dal 17 al 19 novembre a Trento! --[[User:Jaqen|Jaqen]] ([[User talk:Jaqen|talk]]) 09:18, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

== Structured Commons newsletter, December 13, 2017 ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">
''Welcome to the newsletter for '''Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons'''! You can [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Structured Data on Commons|update your subscription to the newsletter]]. Do inform others who you think will want to be involved in the project!''

;Community updates

* There was a IRC Office Hour about Structured Commons on November 21. [[m:IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2017-11-21|You can read the log here]].
* Our dedicated IRC channel: [irc://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-commons-sd wikimedia-commons-sd] [https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-commons-sd webchat]

;[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved Things to do / input and feedback requests]
[[File:Akan MHNT.ETH.2010.25.078.jpg|thumb|A multi-licensed image on Wikimedia Commons, with a custom <nowiki>{{EthnologyItemMHNT}}</nowiki> Information template. Do you also know media files on Commons that will be interesting or challenging to model with structured data? Add them to the [[c:Commons:Structured data/Get involved/Feedback requests/Interesting Commons files|Interesting Commons files]] page.]]
* '''NEW:''' [http://www.allourideas.org/commonswdtools Participate in a survey] that helps us prioritize which tools are important for the Wikimedia Commons and Wikidata communities. The survey runs until December 22. [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Tools|Here's some background]].
* '''NEW:''' [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Feedback_requests/Renaming_'captions'_and_'descriptions'|Help the team decide on better names for 'captions' and 'descriptions']]. You can provide input until January 3, 2018.
* '''NEW:''' [[c:Commons:Structured data/Get involved/Feedback requests/Interesting Commons files|Help collect interesting Commons files]], to prepare for the data modelling challenges ahead! Continuous input is welcome.
* Join the [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Community_focus_group|community focus group]]!
* Do you want to translate messages and information about Structured Data on Commons from English to your own language? Sign up on the [[m:Structured Data on Commons/Newsletter/Translators|translators page]].

;[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/About/Press_and_presentations Presentations / Press / Events]
[[File:WikidataCon 2017 - Structured Commons and Wikidata.webm|thumb|Presentation about Structured Commons and Wikidata, at WikimediaCon in Berlin.]]
* [[c:User:SandraF (WMF)|Sandra]] presented the plans for Structured Commons during WikidataCon in Berlin, on October 29. The presentation focused on collaboration between the Wikidata and Commons communities. [[c:File:WikidataCon_2017_-_Structured_Commons_and_Wikidata.webm|You can see the full video here.]]

;Partners and allies
* We are still welcoming (more) staff from GLAMs (Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums) to become part of our [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/GLAM_focus_group|long-term focus group]] ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T174134 phabricator task T174134]). You will be kept in the loop of the project, and receive regular small surveys and requests for feedback. Get in touch with [[c:User:SandraF (WMF)|Sandra]] if you're interested - your input in helping to shape this project is highly valued!

;Research
* Research findings from interviews and surveys of GLAM project participants are being published to the [[m:Research:Supporting_Commons_contribution_by_GLAM_institutions|research page]]. Check back over the next few weeks as additional details (notes, quotes, charts, blog posts, and slide decks) will be added to or linked from that page.

;[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Development Development]
* The Structured Commons team has written and submitted a report about the first nine months of work on the project to its funders, the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation. [[c:File:Structured_Data_on_Commons_Nov._2017_Report_to_Alfred_P._Sloan_Foundation_-_From_the_Wikimedia_Foundation.pdf|The 53-page report, published on November 1, is available on Wikimedia Commons]].
* The team has started working on designs for changes to the upload wizard ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T182019 T182019]).
* We started preliminary work to prototype changes for file info pages.
* Work on the MediaInfo extension is ongoing ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T176012 T176012]).
* The team is continuing its work on baseline metrics on Commons, in order to be able to measure the effectiveness of structured data on Commons. ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T174519 T174519])
* Upcoming: in the first half of 2018, the first prototypes and design sketches for file pages, the UploadWizard, and for search will be published for discussion and feedback!

;Stay up to date!
* Follow the Structured Data on Commons project on '''Phabricator''': https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/34/
* [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Structured Data on Commons|Subscribe to this '''newsletter''']] to receive it on a talk page of your own choice.
* Join the next '''[[m:IRC office hours#Upcoming office hours|IRC office hour]]''' and ask questions to the team! It takes place on '''Tuesday, February 13, 18.00 UTC''' in [irc://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-office wikimedia-office] [https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-office webchat].

Warmly, your community liaison, [[c:User:SandraF (WMF)|SandraF (WMF)]] ([[c:User talk:SandraF (WMF)|talk]])

''Message sent by [[m:User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] - 16:32, 13 December 2017 (UTC)''
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== Structured Data on Commons Newsletter - Spring 2018 ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">
''Welcome to the newsletter for '''Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons'''! You can [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Structured Data on Commons|update your subscription to the newsletter]] and [[m:Structured Data on Commons/Newsletter/Next|contribute to the next issue]]. Do inform others who you think will want to be involved in the project!''

;Community updates
* Our dedicated IRC channel: [irc://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-commons-sd wikimedia-commons-sd] [https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-commons-sd webchat]
* Several Commons community members are working on ways to integrate Wikidata in Wikimedia Commons. While this is not full-fledged structured data yet, this work helps to prepare for future conversion of data, and helps to understand how Wikidata and Commons can work better together.
** Thanks to [[c:User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] and other contributors, some Commons templates can now be filled via Wikidata: <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[c:Template:Creator|Creator]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89597 Phabricator]) and <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[c:Template:Institution|Institution]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89599 Phabricator]). Work is ongoing on the <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[c:Template:Artwork|Artwork]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> template ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89600 Phabricator]).
** Thanks to [[c:User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]]<nowiki> and others, Wikidata-powered infoboxes can now be added to Commons categories, with the template {{</nowiki>[[c:Template:Wikidata Infobox|Wikidata Infobox]]<nowiki>}}. (</nowiki>[[c:Category:The_Magistrates_(Gerard_ter_Borch)|Example]])
** [[c:User:Multichill|Multichill]] is working on an experimental workflow to upload images to Commons via Wikidata (and using metadata from Wikidata). [[c:Commons:WikiProject sum of all paintings/Missing creator templates|See a part of it here]].

;[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved Things to do / input and feedback requests]
* Join the [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Community_focus_group|community focus group]]!
* Do you want to help out translating messages about Structured Data on Commons from English to your own language? Sign up on the [[m:Structured Data on Commons/Newsletter/Translators|translators page]].
* [[m:Structured Data on Commons/Newsletter/Next|Contribute to the next newsletter]].
;Discussions held
* [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Feedback_requests/First_licensing_consultation|Conversation about licensing and copyright modeling]].
* [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Feedback_requests/Ontology|High-level discussion on ontology for Commons]].
* [[c:Commons:Structured data/Get involved/Feedback requests/Multilingual Captions|Review first designs for multilingual captions]].
* [[m:IRC office hours/Office hours 2018-02-13|IRC office hour, 13 February]]

;Events
* [[m:Wikimedia Conference 2018|Wikimedia Conference]], Berlin, 20-22 April (+ [[m:Learning and Evaluation/News/Learning Days for Wikimedia Conference 2018|Learning Days]] 18-19 April): several sessions and workshops around Structured Commons
* [https://pro.europeana.eu/page/europeanatech-2018-programme EuropeanaTech Conference], Rotterdam, 15-16 May: several presentations + [[d:Wikidata:Events/EuropeanaTech 2018 Wikidata workshop day|a full workshop day on Monday 14 May about Wikidata and Structured Commons]]
* [[mw:Wikimedia Hackathon 2018|Wikimedia Hackathon]], Barcelona, 18-20 May: [[mw:Wikimedia Hackathon 2018/Structured Commons|Structured Commons as a focus area]].

;Partners and allies
* We are still welcoming (more) staff from GLAMs (Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums) to become part of our '''long-term focus group''' ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T174134 phabricator task T174134]). You will be kept in the loop of the project, and receive regular small surveys and requests for feedback. Get in touch with [[c:User:SandraF (WMF)|Sandra]] if you're interested - your input in helping to shape this project is highly valued!

;Research
* The research about GLAM contributions to Wikimedia Commons is concluded. [[wmfblog:2018/01/29/glam-multimedia-metadata-commons/|A blog post on the Wikimedia blog provides a summary]], and you can [[m:Research:Supporting Commons contribution by GLAM institutions|read the full results on meta.wikimedia.org]].

;[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Development Development]
* Prototypes will be available for Multilingual Captions soon.

;Stay up to date!
* Follow the Structured Data on Commons project on '''Phabricator''': https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/34/
* [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Structured Data on Commons|Subscribe to this '''newsletter''']] to receive it on a talk page of your own choice.
* Join the next '''[[m:IRC office hours#Upcoming office hours|IRC office hour]]''' and ask questions to the team! The date for next quarter will be announced soon.

-- [[c:User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[c:User talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]])

''Message sent by [[m:User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] - 19:48, 3 April 2018 (UTC)''
</div>


== Structured Data on Commons Newsletter - Summer 2018 ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">
''Welcome to the newsletter for '''Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons'''! You can [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Structured Data on Commons|update your subscription to the newsletter]] and [[m:Structured Data on Commons/Newsletter/Next|contribute to the next issue]]. Do inform others who you think will want to be involved in the project!''

;Community updates
* Our dedicated IRC channel: [irc://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-commons-sd wikimedia-commons-sd] [https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-commons-sd webchat]
* Since our last newsletter, the Structured Data team has moved into designing and building prototypes for various features. The use of multilingual captions in the UploadWizard and on the file page has been researched, designed, discussed, and built out for use. Behind the scenes, back-end work on search is taking place and designs are being drawn up for the front-end. There will soon be specifications published for the use of the first [[d:Help:Properties|Wikidata property]] on Commons, "[[d:Property:P180|Depicts]]," and a prototype is to be released to go along with that.

;[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved Things to do / input and feedback requests]

* A [[c:Commons:Structured data/Get involved/Feedback requests/Properties for Commons|workshop on what Wikidata properties Commons will need]]. This workshop will be open for the entire month of July 2018 at minimum.

* Join the [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Community_focus_group|community focus group]]!
* Do you want to help out translating messages about Structured Data on Commons from English to your own language? Sign up on the [[m:Structured Data on Commons/Newsletter/Translators|translators page]].
* [[m:Structured Data on Commons/Newsletter/Next|Contribute to the next newsletter]].
;Discussions held

* In late February there was a discussion around how [[c:Commons:Structured data/Get involved/Feedback requests/Ontology|Commons generally sees data being modeled]].

* The first discussion on [[c:Commons:Structured data/Get involved/Feedback requests/First licensing consultation|copyright and licensing with Commons]] was held in March. This was a "high level" discussion, there will be a consultation later this summer about the deeper mapping of copyright and licensing in a structured way.
* In April there was an [[c:Commons:Structured data/Get involved/Feedback requests/GLAM metadata and ontologies mapping|exercise for GLAM partners in metadata and ontology mapping]].
* A discussion about [[c:Commons:Structured data/Get involved/Feedback requests/Multilingual Captions and MediaInfo|the design for Multilingual Captions on the file page]] took place in May. You can still review the designs and leave feedback.
* There was an [[m:IRC office hours/Office hours 2018-06-26|IRC office hour in June]] to discuss progress so far and future plans.

;Wikimania 2018
* Three sessions about Structured Commons are officially scheduled for Wikimania 2018 - Cape Town, South Africa - July 2018.
**[[wm2018:Program/Wikimedia_Commons_and_GLAM_needs_around_the_world|Wikimedia Commons and GLAM needs around the world]] (F''riday 20 July, 10:30 local time'')
**[[wm2018:Program/Structured_Data_on_Wikimedia_Commons_and_knowledge_equity|Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons and knowledge equity]] ''(Friday 20 July, 14:00 local time)''
**[[wm2018:Program/Design_challenge_workshop:_How_can_multilingual_structured_metadata_bring_knowledge_equity_to_Commons?|Design challenge workshop: How can multilingual structured metadata bring knowledge equity to Commons?]] ''(Friday 20 July, 14:30 local time)''
*Structured Data on Commons is also [[wm2018:Hackathon/Structured_Commons|a focus area during the Wikimania 2018 Hackathon]]. We will, among other things, do 'live' modelling of Wikidata properties for Commons - an offline spin-off of [[c:Commons:Structured data/Get involved/Feedback requests/Properties for Commons|the community consultation taking place on wiki]].

;Partners and allies
* We are still welcoming (more) staff from GLAMs (Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums) to become part of our '''long-term focus group''' ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T174134 phabricator task T174134]). You will be kept in the loop of the project, and receive regular small surveys and requests for feedback. Get in touch with [[c:User:SandraF (WMF)|Sandra]] if you're interested - your input in helping to shape this project is highly valued!
*Structured Data on Commons was [[c:File:Structured_Data_on_Commons_-_EuropeanaTech_2018.pdf|presented to GLAM audiences during EuropeanaTech 2018 in Rotterdam]] (15 May 2018) and [https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/content/ddbforum-information-werkstattberichte-diskussionen-austausch at the Deutsche Digitale Bibliothek Forum in Berlin] (4 June 2018).

;Research

Two research projects about Wikimedia Commons are currently ongoing, or in the process of being finished:

# [[Research:Curation workflows on Wikimedia Commons]]—a project that seeks to understand the current workflows of Commons contributors who curate media (categorize it, delete it, link to it from other projects, etc.).
# [[Research:Technical needs of external re-users of Commons media]]—soliciting feedback from individuals and organizations that re-use Commons content outside of Wikimedia projects, in order to understand their current painpoints and unmet needs.

*

;[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Development Development]
* Prototypes will be available for Depicts soon.

;Stay up to date!
* Follow the Structured Data on Commons project on '''Phabricator''': https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/34/
* [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Structured Data on Commons|Subscribe to this '''newsletter''']] to receive it on a talk page of your own choice.
* Join the next '''[[m:IRC office hours#Upcoming office hours|IRC office hour]]''' and ask questions to the team! The date for next quarter will be announced soon.

-- [[c:User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[c:User talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]])

''Message sent by [[m:User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] - 21:07, 6 July 2018 (UTC)''
</div>


== Structured Data Newsletter - Research link fix ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">
Greetings,

The newsletter omitted two interwiki prefixes, breaking the links on non-meta wikis as you might see above. Here are the correct links:

# [[m:Research:Curation workflows on Wikimedia Commons]]—a project that seeks to understand the current workflows of Commons contributors who curate media (categorize it, delete it, link to it from other projects, etc.).
# [[m:Research:Technical needs of external re-users of Commons media]]—soliciting feedback from individuals and organizations that re-use Commons content outside of Wikimedia projects, in order to understand their current painpoints and unmet needs.

My apologies, I hope you find the corrected links helpful.

- [[User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[m:User talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]]) 21:21, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
</div>


== Structured Data on Commons Newsletter - Fall 2018 edition ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">
''Welcome to the newsletter for '''Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons'''! You can [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Structured Data on Commons|update your subscription to the newsletter]]. Do inform others who you think will want to be involved in the project!''

;Community updates
* Multilingual Captions, the first feature release for Structured Data, is coming in January of 2019
**Be on the lookout for the beta testing announcement
**[[mw:Help:File captions|Help using captions]] has been set up, if you'd like to go ahead and see the workflow
* Two IRC office hours were held since the last newsletter
**[[m:IRC office hours/Office hours 2018-10-04|Log for 4 October]]
**[[m:IRC office hours/Office hours 2018-11-01|Log for 1 November]]
* Our dedicated IRC channel: [irc://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-commons-sd wikimedia-commons-sd] [https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-commons-sd webchat]

;[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved Things to do / input and feedback requests]
Current:
*[[d:Wikidata:WikiProject Commons/Properties table|Help determine and propose properties on Wikidata for Commons]]
*[[c:Commons:Structured data/Get involved/Feedback requests/Statements 2|Review designs for structured licensing and copyright]]
* Join the [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Community_focus_group|community focus group]]!

Since the last newsletter:
* [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Feedback_requests/Search_prototype|Review a prototype for searching structured Commons]] (October 2018)
* [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Feedback_requests/Good_coverage|"Good coverage" for depicts tagging]] (Sept. 2018)
* [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Feedback_requests/Statements|Review and discuss mockups for displaying the new metadata section of the file page]] (18 September - 9 October 2018)
* [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Feedback_requests/Depicts|Depicts statements draft requirements]] (14 August - 31 August 2018)
* [[c:Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Feedback_requests/Properties_for_Commons|Identify Wikidata properties that Commons will need]] (26 June - 14 August 2018)

;[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/About/Press_and_presentations Presentations / Press / Events]
*[[:File:Strctured Data on Commons Fall 2018 Update.pdf|Presentation by Keegan]] on the first features to be released for Structured Data, presented at [[wikiconference:Submissions:2018/Update:_Structured_Data_on_Commons|Wikiconference North America, Columbus, Ohio, October 2018]].
* Sandra presented a project update at the GLAM-Wiki conference in Tel Aviv, Israel, November 2018, [[m:GLAMTLV2018/Submissions/Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons: Introduction and panel of Wikimedia pilots|as part of an update and panel discussion]].
* Structured Data on Commons was the subject of a keynote presentation by Sandra ([https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sandra_Fauconnier_-_BAAC_Conference_2018_-_Wikimedia_keynote.pdf see slides]) at the Baltic Audiovisual Archives Council conference in Tallinn, Estonia, November 2018.

;Partners and allies
* The info portal on Structured Commons [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/GLAM now includes a section on GLAM] (Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums).
* We are currently planning the first GLAM pilot projects that will use structured data on Wikimedia Commons. One project has already started: the Swedish Heritage Board researches and develops a prototype tool to provide improved metadata (translations, data additions...) from Wikimedia Commons back to the source institution. [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Project_Brief_Wikimedia_Commons_Data_Roundtripping.pdf Read the project brief].
* The documentation for batch uploads of files to Wikimedia Commons will be improved in 2019, as part of preparing for Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons. To prepare, the GLAM team at the Wikimedia Foundation wants to understand better which types of documentation you already use, and how you like to learn new GLAM-Wiki skills and knowledge. [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdWcLNO6dyM11usIet29bGhEPtbA-01q04dYTruu1V1DtDsVw/viewform Fill in a short survey to provide input!]

;Stay up to date!
* Follow the Structured Data on Commons project on '''Phabricator''': https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/34/
* [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Structured Data on Commons|Subscribe to this '''newsletter''']] to receive it on a talk page of your own choice.

-- [[c:User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[c:User talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]])

''Message sent by [[m:User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] - 17:58, 7 December 2018 (UTC)''
</div>


== Captions in January ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">
The previous message from today says captions will be released in November in the text. January is the correct month. My apologies for the potential confusion. -- [[User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[m:User talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]]) 20:43, 7 January 2019 (UTC) </div>


== Structured Data - file captions coming this week (January 2019) ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">

''My apologies if this is a duplicate message for you, it is being sent to multiple lists which you may be signed up for.''

Hi all, following up on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Village_pump&oldid=331569911#Structured_data_-_Multilingual_captions_beta_testing last month's announcement]...

'''Multilingual file captions will be released this week, on either Wednesday, 9 January or Thursday, 10 January 2019.''' Captions are a feature to add short, translatable descriptions to files. Here's some links you might want to look follow before the release, if you haven't already:

# [[mw:Help:File_captions|Read over the help page for using captions]] - I wrote the page on mediawiki.org because captions are available for any MediaWiki user, feel free to host/modify a copy of the page here on Commons.
# [https://commons.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/ Test out using captions on Beta Commons].
# Leave feedback about the test on [[c:Commons_talk:Structured_data/Beta_captions_testing|the captions test talk page]], if you have anything you'd like to say prior to release.

Additionally, '''there will be an IRC office hour on Thursday, 10 January''' with the Structured Data team to talk about file captions, as well as anything else the community may be interested in. [[m:IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours|Date/time conversion, as well as a link to join, are on Meta]].

Thanks for your time, I look forward to seeing those who can make it to the IRC office hour on Thursday. -- [[User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[m:User talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]]) 21:09, 7 January 2019 (UTC) </div>


== Sent email ==

Hi Hjfocs,

I got a message that you sent me an email about a week ago. Due to a change in my email address, I did not get that email. I just fixed it, so if the issue's still relevant, please contact me again.

Best, --[[User:RKDdata|RKDdata]] ([[User talk:RKDdata|talk]]) 10:21, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
:Same here. (About soweego and mix&match). Feel free to send it again.[[User:Maria zaos|Maria zaos]] ([[User talk:Maria zaos|talk]]) 21:34, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi. I understand through the ping system that you sent me an email. However, I didn't receive it. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rosiestep here] for my email. Thanks. --[[User:Rosiestep|Rosiestep]] ([[User talk:Rosiestep|talk]]) 08:17, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

:Dear {{ping|RKDdata|Maria zaos|Rosiestep}} thanks for reaching out.
:{{done}}. Could you kindly confirm you have received the e-mail? Thanks, [[User:Hjfocs|Hjfocs]] ([[User talk:Hjfocs#top|talk]]) 14:12, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Could it be that you have a restrictive SPF setting on your email address, Hjfocs? I think your email address domain uses ~all but I might be wrong. [[phabricator:T65927]] is marked resolved but I'm unaware of any actual mitigation used by the WMF's mail relay for MediaWiki emails. [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 12:05, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

:{{ping|Nemo_bis}} thanks for the heads-up. I checked if something went wrong with the accounts above, but it seems the the e-mails were correctly sent. I didn't receive any automatic mail delivery notifications neither, so I'm not sure what else I can do: if I understand [[phabricator:T65927]], it might be a recipient problem too, right? What do you think I should check from my side? Cheers, [[User:Hjfocs|Hjfocs]] ([[User talk:Hjfocs#top|talk]]) 13:51, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
::Not all recipients enforce SPF, and those who enforce SPF do not necessarily return any error message. [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 18:08, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

== Structured Data - blogs posted in Wikimedia Space ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">
There are two separate blog entries for [[c:Commons:Structured data|Structured Data on Commons]] posted to [[m:Wikimedia Space|Wikimedia Space]] that are of interest:

* [https://space.wmflabs.org/2019/08/27/working-with-structured-data-on-commons-a-status-report/ Working with Structured Data on Commons: A Status Report], by [[User:Lucas Werkmeister|Lucas Werkmeister]], discusses some ways that editors can work with structured data. Topics include tools that have been written or modified for structured data, in addition to future plans for tools and querying services.
* [https://space.wmflabs.org/2019/07/25/structured-data-on-commons-a-blog-series/ Structured Data on Commons - A Blog Series], written by me, is a five-part posting that covers the basics of the software and features that were built to make structured data happen. The series is meant to be friendly to those who may have some knowledge of Commons, but may not know much about the structured data project.

I hope these are informative and useful, comments and questions are welcome. All the blogs offer a comment feature, and you can log in with your Wikimedia account using [[mw:Special/Mylanguage/Help:OAuth|oAuth]]. I look forward to seeing some posts over there. -- [[User:Keegan (WMF)|Keegan (WMF)]] ([[m:User talk:Keegan (WMF)|talk]]) 21:33, 23 September 2019 (UTC) </div>


== Vous m'avez envoyé... ? ==

Bonjour

Une notification, il y a 8 jours, me dit que vous m'avez envoyé un courrier, mais il m'est impossible de le trouver, pouvez-vous m'aider ?
Cordialement, [[User:OdileB|Zerline]] ([[User talk:OdileB|talk]]) 13:08, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

:Bonjour [[User:OdileB|Zerline]] et merci bien pour votre message.
:Il s'agit peut-être du [[User_talk:Hjfocs#Sent_email|même problème]] qui est arrivé à d'autres utilisateurs, du coup je vais vous coller le text du courriel (en anglais) sur votre page personnelle.
:À bientôt! --[[User:Hjfocs|Hjfocs]] ([[User talk:Hjfocs#top|talk]]) 15:42, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

== Un grazie e un libro sulla conoscenza libera per te ==

[[File:Wikimedia Italia-logo.svg|frameless|right|300px|Wikimedia Italia|link=wmit:]]
Gentile Hjfocs,

oggi ti scrivo a nome dell'[[wmit:|associazione Wikimedia Italia]] per ringraziarti del tempo che hai dedicato ai [[wmit:Siti_sostenuti|progetti Wikimedia]].

Come piccolo omaggio avremmo piacere di spedirti una copia (tutta in carta riciclata) del libro di Carlo Piana, [[s:it:Open source, software libero e altre libertà|''Open source, software libero e altre libertà'']]. [{{User:Laurentius/SLAL-URL}} '''Fornisci un recapito per ricevere una copia del libro'''].

Pochi giorni fa il mondo ha festeggiato la [https://www.wikimedia.it/noi-amiamo-il-software-libero-e-tu/ giornata dell'amore per il software libero], ma ogni giorno è buono per ricordare le [[m:Free_knowledge_based_on_Creative_Commons_licenses/it|garanzie delle licenze libere]] e le centinaia di migliaia di persone che si sono unite per costruire questo bene comune della conoscenza. Speriamo che questo libro ti sia utile per apprezzare quanto hai fatto e per trasmettere la passione della conoscenza libera a una persona a te vicina.

Se desideri una copia ma non puoi fornirci un indirizzo a cui spedirla, [[wmit:Contatti|contatta la segreteria Wikimedia Italia]] e troviamo una soluzione insieme.

Grazie ancora e a presto,

[[wmit:Utente:Laurentius|Lorenzo Losa]] ([[User talk:Laurentius|msg]]) 15:15, 18 February 2020 (UTC)


== OpenLibrary ==

Hi Hjfocs,
The [https://openlibrary.org/help/faq/about OpenLibrary] can make millions of the books cited by WP and other projects findable, and often makes them readable online for free. Obviously this has the potential to improve statements from ''potentially'' to ''actually'' verified.

I've been trying to make sense of where soweego stands now, but haven't had much success finding out the status of the project. It appears to have mostly stopped in 2017, but I expect that appearance is not reality.

OpenLibrary has three main identifier types of its own for Authors, Works, and Editions. These in turn support (but do not require) linkage to a number of associated external identifiers such as Wikidata items, VIAF, ISNI, OCLC, ISBN, HathiTrust ID, etc. As of today, there is very little consistency in the population of these identifiers, but the potential for a tool such as soweego to fill in some of these blanks would seem to be great. I would suggest that an initial focus on author identifiers has the largest potential to help. OL has a great number of redundant author records which means a large effort is still needed to merge them. The first step is simply identifying that (for instance) the 480 [https://openlibrary.org/search/authors?q=david+smith&mode=everything David Smith] entries reflect far fewer than 480 authors, only one of whom wrote a book entitled ''[https://openlibrary.org/search?q=%22Where+the+grass+is+greener%22&mode=everything Where the grass is greener]''. It turns out to have two records for that author [https://openlibrary.org/search/authors?q=david+marshall+smith David Marshall Smith], but neither record is directly linked to VIAF, ISNI, Wikidata or anything of the sort. Mining through editions to ISBNs on OCLC does, however, reveal that [https://www.wikidata.org/entity/Q58212475 Q58212475], [http://isni.org/isni/0000000084121408 ISNI:0000000084121408] and [https://viaf.org/viaf/115129454 VIAF:115129454] all pertain to the same author.

Am I right in thinking that soweego could help automate parts of such work?
[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 21:13, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

:Hey {{ping|LeadSongDog}} thanks a lot for your comments and your endorsement to soweego 2, much appreciated. I'm a fan of what you guys are building at the Internet Archive. Maybe we met when we had lunch at the office after [[WikiCite 2018]]? See the thumbnail on the right. [[File:2018-1130-internet-archive-visit-by-wikimedians-04.jpg|thumb|Wikimedians having lunch at the {{Q|Q461}} headquarters after [[WikiCite 2018]]]]
:I think you set your expectations right, the soweego project is quite active: 2017 is when the first proposal was submitted, see [[Grants:Project/Hjfocs/soweego]]. The development of version 1 started in July 2018 with a 1-year grant: [[Grants:Project/Hjfocs/soweego/Timeline#Overview]]. Version 1.1 was supported by a follow-up rapid grant: [[Grants:Project/Rapid/Hjfocs/soweego 1.1]]. Right now, we are in the review phase for version 2 proposal.
:And yes, you're right that soweego can give the Open Library a hand. The main soweego duty is to mine '''links''' between Wikidata items and e.g., Open Library ones. Once a pair of entries gets connected, we can do something more like comparing the available information.
:While it's currently out of scope, soweego's core task could be applied for data '''de-duplication''' as well, so we can also discuss about using record linkage to find duplicate entries in your catalog.
:In any case, I believe it would make a lot of sense if we let soweego support the Open Library as a target catalog: you'll start seeing benefits once entry pairs get linked. Just added this discussion to my radar.
:soweego 2 proposal timeline is bound to Project Grants round 1 2020 schedule: [[Grants:Project]]. Let's definitely keep in touch!
:Best,
:[[User:Hjfocs|Hjfocs]] ([[User talk:Hjfocs#top|talk]]) 17:11, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
::Thank you, that is very encouraging. Sadly, I’ve not been able to get to any WikiCite meetings, but I’m sure that DarTar and company made good use of the time together. As I said, targeting the author identifiers first should show the most rapid improvement. Where would I find discussion on the choice of targets? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 05:05, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Grants:Project/Hjfocs/soweego 2

2020-03-12T15:45:33Z

LeadSongDog: /* Current endorsements */ s

{{Probox
|status=under review
|summary=<code>[https://soweego.readthedocs.io/ soweego]</code> is an artificial intelligence that links Wikidata to large external catalogs. Now <code>soweego</code> wants to enable '''feedback loops''' between Wikidatans and catalog owners, through mutual '''data quality''' checks. ''Unity is strength.''
|contact1=fossati{{@}}spaziodati.eu
|advisor1=Magnus Manske
|target=Wikidata
|grant_type=tools and software, research
|applicant_type=Individual
|amount=80k €
|image=File:Crosscut.jpg


|project=soweego 2
|grantee=Hjfocs
|portal=Project
|more_participants=Yes
|translations=Probox/Project/Content
|idealab=NO
|timestamp = 15:03, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
|creator = Hjfocs
|volunteer1=.laramar.
|volunteer2=Back ache
}}


{{TOC_right}}

==Idea==
<code>soweego</code> is a machine learning system that connects Wikidata to large-scale third-party catalogs.
It takes a set of Wikidata items and a given catalog as input, and links them through record linkage<ref>[[:en:Record_linkage]]</ref> techniques based on supervised learning.<ref>[[:en:Supervised_learning]]</ref>
The main output is a dataset of Wikidata and third-party catalog identifier pairs.

===Running example===
''Elvis Presley'' is ''[[:d:Q303|Q303]]'' in Wikidata and ''[https://musicbrainz.org/artist/01809552-4f87-45b0-afff-2c6f0730a3be 01809552]'' in MusicBrainz:
<code>soweego</code> '''links''' ''Q303'' to ''01809552'' through a Wikidata '''identifier statement'''.
[[File:Soweego running example.svg|center|thumb|780px|<code>soweego</code>'s core task explained with the help of {{Q|Q303}}.]]

===The story so far===
The project started with a 1-year Project Grant,<ref>[[Grants:Project/Hjfocs/soweego]]</ref> which led to the release of version 1.<ref>https://soweego.readthedocs.io/</ref>
A Rapid Grant<ref>[[Grants:Project/Rapid/Hjfocs/soweego_1.1]]</ref> followed for version 1.1.
Outcomes look promising:
* the <code>soweego</code> Wikidata bot uploaded '''hundreds of thousands confident links''';<ref name="xtools">https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/wikidata.org/Soweego%20bot</ref>
* '''medium-confident''' ones are in {{Q|Q28054658}} for '''curation''';<ref>see for instance https://tools.wmflabs.org/mix-n-match/#/group/Music</ref>
* there is '''strong''' community support;<ref>[[Grants:Project/Rapid/Hjfocs/soweego_1.1#Endorsements]]</ref><ref>https://github.com/Wikidata/soweego/stargazers</ref>
* outcomes '''fit''' the Wikidata development roadmap.<ref name="roadmap">https://eu.roadmunk.com/publish/f247f2e06ee338c9997893bd1f9a696fbf2a40ed</ref>

===Growth directions===
We see two principal growth directions:
# the '''validator''' component;
# addition of '''new''' third-party '''catalogs'''.

The former was originally out of the initial Project Grant scope.
Nevertheless, we developed a prototype<ref>see more in [[#What:_things_done]]</ref> to address a key suggestion from the Wikimedia research team: ''"Develop a plan for syncing when external database and Wikidata diverge"''.<ref>see third main bullet point in [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#Round_2_2017_decision]]</ref>
The latter is a natural way to expand beyond the initial use case,<ref>4 catalogs, see [[Grants:Project/Hjfocs/soweego/Timeline#August_2018:_big_fishes_selection]]</ref> thus increasing impact through more extensive coverage.
Contributors engagement will be crucial for this task.

===Why: the problem===
<code>soweego</code> complements the Wikidata development roadmap with respect to the ''Increase data quality and trust'' part.<ref name="roadmap" />
It aims at addressing '''three open challenges''' that zoom in from a high-level perspective:
# '''missing feedback loops''' between Wikidata data donors and re-users;<ref>see the ''feedback loops with data re-users'' block in https://eu.roadmunk.com/publish/f247f2e06ee338c9997893bd1f9a696fbf2a40ed</ref><ref>[[:phab:T234976]]</ref>
# lack of methodical efforts to keep Wikidata in '''sync''' with third-party catalogs/databases;<ref>see the ''checks against 3rd party databases'' block in https://eu.roadmunk.com/publish/f247f2e06ee338c9997893bd1f9a696fbf2a40ed</ref>
# '''under-usage''' of the statement ranking system,<ref>https://grafana.wikimedia.org/d/000000175/wikidata-datamodel-statements?orgId=1&from=1472503010563&to=1579733999000&panelId=8&fullscreen</ref> with few bots performing most of the edits.<ref>see for instance [[:d:Special:Contributions/PreferentialBot]]</ref>

These challenges are intertwined among each other: synchronizing Wikidata to a given external database is a precondition to enable a feedback loop between both communities.
At the same time, sync results can impact the ranking system usage.

===How: the solution===
We synchronize Wikidata to a given target catalog at a given point in time through a set of '''validation criteria'''.
# ''existence'': whether a target identifier found in a given Wikidata item is still available in the target catalog;
# ''links'': to what extent all URLs available in a Wikidata item overlap with those in the corresponding target catalog entry;
# ''metadata'': to what extent relevant statements available in a Wikidata item overlap with those in the corresponding target catalog entry.

The application of these criteria to our running example translates into the following '''actions'''.<ref>the examples are fictitious and do not reflect the actual data</ref>
# {{Q|Q303}} has a MusicBrainz identifier ''01809552'', which does not exist in MusicBrainz anymore. ''Action ='' mark the identifier statement with a '''deprecated rank''';
# {{Q|Q303}} has 7 URLs, MusicBrainz ''01809552'' has 8 URLs, and 3 overlap. ''Action ='' '''add''' 5 URLs from MusicBrainz to {{Q|Q303}} and '''submit''' 4 URLs from Wikidata '''to''' the '''MusicBrainz''' community;
# Wikidata states that {{Q|Q303}} was born on January 8, 1935 in Tupelo, while MusicBrainz states that ''01809552'' was born in 1934 in Memphis. ''Action ='' '''add''' 2 '''referenced''' statements with MusicBrainz values to {{Q|Q303}} and '''notify''' 2 Wikidata values '''to''' the '''MusicBrainz''' community.

In case of either '''full''' or '''no''' overlap in criteria 2 and 3, the Wikidata identifier statement should be marked with a '''preferred''' or a '''deprecated''' rank respectively.
Note that community discussion is essential to refine these criteria.

===What: things done===
[[File:Mix'n'match soweego catalogs.png|right|thumb|Example of <code>soweego</code> catalogs uploaded to {{Q|Q28054658}}]]

<code>soweego</code> 1 has an '''experimental''' validator module<ref>https://soweego.readthedocs.io/en/latest/validator.html</ref> that implements the aforementioned criteria.
If you know how to use a command line and feel audacious, you can install <code>soweego</code>,<ref>https://soweego.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html#get-ready</ref> import a target catalog,<ref>https://soweego.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cli.html#importer</ref> and try the validator out.<ref>https://soweego.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cli.html#validator-aka-sync</ref>

The <code>soweego</code> bot<ref>[[:d:User:Soweego_bot]]</ref> already has an approved task for criterion 2,<ref>[[:d:Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Bot/Soweego_bot_2]]</ref> together with a set of test edits.<ref>https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Soweego_bot&contribs=user&start=2018-11-05&end=2018-11-05&limit=250</ref>
In addition, we performed (then reverted) a set of test edits for criterion 1.<ref>https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Soweego_bot&contribs=user&start=2018-11-07&end=2018-11-13&limit=100</ref>

Besides that, major contributions in terms of content addition are:
* roughly '''255,000'''<ref name="report">[[Grants:Project/Hjfocs/soweego/Final#Summary]]</ref> '''confident''' identifier statements uploaded by the <code>soweego</code> bot, totalling '''482,000'''<ref name="xtools" /> Wikidata edits;
* around '''126,000'''<ref name="report" /> '''medium-confident''' identifiers submitted to {{Q|Q28054658}} for curation.

==Goals==
* '''G1''': take the <code>soweego</code> ''validator'' component from experimental to ''stable'';
* '''G2''': submit validation results to the target ''catalog providers'';
* '''G3''': engage the ''Wikidata community'' via effective communication of <code>soweego</code> results;
* '''G4''': expand <code>soweego</code> ''coverage'' to additional target catalogs.

==Impact==

===Output===
* '''O1''': production-ready ''validator'' module, implementing criteria acknowledged by the community;
* '''O2''': datasets to ''enable feedback loops'' on the ''Wikidata users side'', namely
** ''automatically ranked'' identifier dataset, as a result of validation criteria actions;
** ''entity enrichment'' statement dataset, based on available target data;
* '''O3''': datasets to ''enable feedback loops'' on the ''target catalog providers side'', namely ''rotten URLs'' and ''additional URLs & values'';
* '''O4''': ''engagement tools'' for Wikidata users, including ''visualization'' of <code>soweego</code> datasets and data ''curation tutorials'';
* '''O5''': procedure to plug a ''new target catalog'' that minimizes programming efforts.

===Outcomes===
# '''Feedback loop''' between target data donors and Wikidata users: as a target catalog consumer, <code>soweego</code> can shift the target maintenance burden. Edits performed by the <code>soweego</code> bot (properly communicated through visualization for instance) close the loop from the Wikidata users side. A use case that emerged during the development of <code>soweego</code> 1 is the sanity check over target URLs: this yielded a '''rotten URLs''' dataset, which can be submitted to the target community;
# '''checks''' against '''target catalogs''', which entail the '''enrichment''' of Wikidata items upon available data, especially relationships among entries. Use cases encountered in <code>soweego</code> 1 target catalogs include:
#* works by people, with an approved task<ref>[[:d:Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Bot/Soweego_bot_3]]</ref> and corresponding test edits;<ref>https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Contributions?offset=20190717122745&limit=100&contribs=user&target=Soweego+bot</ref>
#* band membership of musicians;
# '''automatic ranking''' of statements: a potentially huge impact on the Wikidata '''truthy statements''' dumps,<ref>[[:mw:Wikibase/Indexing/RDF_Dump_Format#Truthy_statements]]</ref> which are both widely used as the "official" ones and underpin a vast portion of the Query Service.<ref>plenty of queries use the truthy prefix <code>wdt</code>, see for instance [[:d:Wikidata:SPARQL_query_service/queries/examples#Showcase_Queries]]</ref>
[[File:Soweego-alike.jpg|right|thumb|300px|<code>soweego</code> advertisement gone wrong at [[:wikimania:2019:Wikimania|Wikimania 2019]] :-D. Spotted by {{u|Sj}} (thanks!)]]

===Local metrics===
The following numerical metrics are '''projections''' over '''all''' target catalogs currently supported by <code>soweego</code> and '''all''' experimental validation criteria,<ref>see [[#How:_the_solution]]</ref> based on estimates for a single catalog (i.e., {{Q|Q504063}}) and a single criterion.
Note that the actual amount of total statements will depend on data available in Wikidata and in target catalogs.
<ul>
<li>''Validator datasets (O2):''</li>
<ol>
<li>'''250k''' ranked statements. Estimate: 21k identifier statements to be deprecated, as a result of criterion 1;</li>
<li>'''120k''' new statements. Estimate: 10k statements to be added or referenced, as a result of criterion 2;</li>
</ol>
<li>''feedback loop datasets, target side (O3):''</li>
<ol start="3">
<li>'''440k''' rotten URLs. Estimate: 110k URLs, as a result of the sanity check at import time;</li>
<li>'''128k''' extra values. Estimate: 16k values, as a result of criterion 3.</li>
</ol>
</ul>

From a ''qualitative'' perspective, a project-specific '''request for comment'''<ref>[[:d:Wikidata:Requests_for_comment]]</ref> will act as a survey to collect feedback.

===Shared metrics===
The 3 shared metrics<ref>[[m:Grants:Metrics#Three_shared_metrics]]</ref> are as follows.
# '''50''' ''total participants'': sum of target catalog community fellows, Wikidata users facilitating the feedback loop, and contributors to the <code>soweego</code> system;
# '''25''' ''newly registered users'': to be gathered from the {{Q|Q28054658}} user base;
# '''370k''' ''content pages created or improved'': sum of Wikidata statements edited by the <code>soweego</code> bot.

==Plan==

===Work package===
{| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center;"
|+ High-level milestones
! ID
! Title
! Goal
! Month
! Effort
|-
| M1 || Validator || G1 || 1-8 || 30%
|-
| M2 || Feedback loop, data providers side || G2 || 3-12 || 25%
|-
| M3 || Feedback loop, data users side || G3 || 3-12 || 25%
|-
| M4 || New catalogs || G4 || 8-12 || 20%
|}

Note that some milestones overlap in terms of timespan: this is required to exploit mutual interactions among them.

{| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center;"
|+ Milestones breakdown: lower-level stories
! ID
! Title
! Action
! Effort
|-
| M1.1 || Validation criteria || Refine criteria through community discussion || 35%
|-
| M1.2 || Automatic ranking || Submit validation criteria actions on Wikidata statement ranks || 20%
|-
| M1.3 || Automatic enrichment || Leverage target catalog relationships to generate Wikidata statements || 20%
|-
| M1.4 || Interaction with constraints check || Intercept reports of this Wikibase extension to improve <code>soweego</code> results || 25%
|- style="border-style: solid; border-width: 2px 0 0 0"
| M2.1 || Rotten URLs || Contribute rotten URLs to target catalog providers || 30%
|-
| M2.2 || Extra URLs & content || Submit additional URLs (criterion 2) and values (criterion 3) from Wikidata to target catalog providers || 70%
|- style="border-style: solid; border-width: 2px 0 0 0"
| M3.1 || <code>soweego</code> bot dashboard || Improve communication of Wikidata edits made by <code>soweego</code> via data visualization || 35%
|-
| M3.2 || Data curation guidelines || Explain how to curate Wikidata and Mix’n’match contributions made by <code>soweego</code> || 30%
|-
| M3.3 || Real-world evaluation || Switch from ''in vitro'' to ''in situ'' evaluation of the <code>soweego</code> system || 35%
|- style="border-style: solid; border-width: 2px 0 0 0"
| M4.1 || New domains || Extend support of target catalogs beyond people and works (initial use case) || 20%
|-
| M4.2 || Codebase generalization || Minimize domain-dependent logic || 30%
|-
| M4.3 || Simple import || Squeeze the effort needed to add support for a new catalog || 50%
|}

===Budget===
The total amount requested is 80,318 €.

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center;"
|+ Budget breakdown
! Item
! Description
! Commitment
! Cost
|-
| Project lead || Responsible for the full project implementation || Full time (40 hrs/week), 12 PM<ref>person months</ref> || 52,735 €
|-
| Core system architect || Technical operations head || Full time, 12 PM || 12,253 €<ref>corresponds to 25% of the salary. The rest is funded by the hosting university</ref>
|-
| Research assistant || In charge of the applied machine learning components || Part time (20 hrs/week), 6 PM || 14,330 €<ref>corresponds to 50% of the salary. The rest is funded by the hosting university</ref>
|-
| Dissemination || Expenses to attend 2 relevant community events || One shot || 1,000 €
|-
| '''Total''' || || || '''80,318''' €
|}

Gross salaries of the human resources are computed upon average estimates based on roles and locations.<ref>see [[#Participants]]</ref>
Gross labor rates per hour follow.
* project lead: 27.46 €;<ref>https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/milan-senior-project-manager-salary-SRCH_IL.0,5_IM1058_KO6,28.htm</ref>
* core system architect: 25.52 €;<ref>https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/milan-software-architect-salary-SRCH_IL.0,5_IM1058_KO6,24.htm</ref>
* research assistant: 29.85 €.<ref>https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/munich-research-assistant-salary-SRCH_IL.0,6_IM1053_KO7,25.htm</ref>

Note that the project lead will serve as the main grantee and will appropriately allocate the funding.

===Community engagement===
We identify the following relevant communities, which are both inside and outside the Wikimedia landscape.
* Wikidata development team;
* {{Q|Q28054658}} users;
* Target catalog owners:
** {{Q|Q504063}} team;<ref>https://www.discogs.com/team</ref>
** {{Q|Q14005}} team;<ref>https://metabrainz.org/team</ref>
** {{Q|Q37312}} team.<ref>https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/details/employees</ref>

Besides the currently supported target catalogs, we would like to engage {{Q|Q18748726}} through a formal collaboration with the Intelligent Data Analysis team.<ref>https://www.kew.org/science/our-science/departments/biodiversity-and-spatial-analysis/intelligent-data-analysis</ref>
The organization maintains a set of biodiversity catalogs, such as {{Q|Q1860469}}.
The team is exploring directions to leverage and disseminate their collections.<ref>https://www.kew.org/sites/default/files/2019-11/Kew%20Future%20Leaders%20Fellowship.pdf#%5B%7B%22num%22%3A102%2C%22gen%22%3A0%7D%2C%7B%22name%22%3A%22FitV%22%7D%2C-54%5D</ref>
Moreover, this would let <code>soweego</code> scale up to a totally different domain.
Hence, we believe the collaboration would yield a 3-fold benefit: for Wikidata, Kew, and <code>soweego</code>.

==References==
<references />

==Get involved==

===Participants===
* '''Marco Fossati'''
:{{u|Hjfocs}} is a research scientist with a double background in natural languages and information technology. He holds a PhD in computer science at the {{Q|Q930528}}.
:His profile is highly hybrid and can be defined as an enthusiastic leader of applied research in natural language processing for the Web, backed by a strong dissemination attitude and an innate passion for open knowledge, all blended with software engineering skills and a deep affection for human languages.
:He is currently focusing on Wikidata data quality and has been leading <code>soweego</code> since the very first prototype, as well as the [[:m:Grants:IEG/StrepHit:_Wikidata_Statements_Validation_via_References|StrepHit]] project, both funded by the Wikimedia Foundation.

* '''Emilio Dorigatti'''
:{{u|Edorigatti}} is a PhD candidate at the {{Q|Q55044}}, where he is applying machine learning methods to the design of personalized vaccines for HIV and cancer, in collaboration with the {{Q|Q878592}}.
:He holds a BSc in computer science and a double MSc in data science, with a minor in innovation and entrepreneurship. He also has several years of working experience as a software developer, data engineer, and data scientist. He is mostly interested in Bayesian inference, uncertainty quantification, and Bayesian Deep Learning.
:Emilio was a core team member of the [[:m:Grants:IEG/StrepHit:_Wikidata_Statements_Validation_via_References|StrepHit]] project.

* '''Massimo Frasson'''
:{{u|MaxFrax96}} has been a professional software engineer since more than 5 years. He has mainly worked as an iOS developer and game developer at [https://belkadigital.com/ Belka].
:He has always had a strong interest in software architecture and algorithm performance. He is currently attending a MSc in computer science at the {{Q|Q46210}} to deepen his knowledge on data science.
:Massimo has been involved into <code>soweego</code> since the early stages, and has made key contributions to its development.
*'''Advisor''' Volunteering my experience from Mix'n'match, amongst others [[User:Magnus Manske|Magnus Manske]] ([[User talk:Magnus Manske|talk]]) 10:47, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
*'''Volunteer''' I'm part of OpenMLOL, which has a a property in Wikidata (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3762) as the identifier of an author in openMLOL. I'm trying to standardize our author ID with the Wikidata ID. [[User:.laramar.|.laramar.]] ([[User talk:.laramar.|talk]]) 16:18, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
*'''Volunteer''' Volunteer [[User:Back ache|Back ache]] ([[User talk:Back ache|talk]]) 10:29, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

===Community notification===
The links below reference notifications to relevant mailing lists and Wiki pages.
They are sorted in descending order of specificity.
* Wikidata: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2020-February/013842.html
* Wikidata project chat: [[:d:Wikidata:Project_chat#soweego_2_proposal]]
* Wikidata weekly summary: [[:d:Wikidata:Status_updates/2020_02_24]]
* Wikidata Telegram channel: https://t.me/joinchat/AZriqUj5UagVMHXYzfZFvA
* Wiki research: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiki-research-l/2020-February/007127.html
* AI: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/ai/2020-February/000296.html
* Wikimedia: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2020-February/094292.html

===Endorsements===
Do you think this project should be selected for a Project Grant?
Please add your name and rationale for ''endorsing'' this project by clicking the blue button in the infobox, or edit this section directly.
(Other constructive feedback is welcome on the discussion page).

<div style="padding: 10px; color: black; background-color: #3dd3e9; -moz-border-radius: 10px; -webkit-border-radius: 10px; border-radius: 10px; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; clear: both" >
<center>'''This section is for endorsements only. Please post your structured feedback on the [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego_2|discussion page]]'''.

Thanks!</center>
</div>

====Past endorsements====
* soweego 1: [[Grants:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#Endorsements]]
* soweego 1.1: [[Grants:Project/Rapid/Hjfocs/soweego_1.1#Endorsements]]

====GitHub stargazers====
See https://github.com/Wikidata/soweego/stargazers.

====Current endorsements====
*Very cool project idea. [[Special:Contributions/2001:4CA0:0:F235:2486:8ED5:C3AA:C914|2001:4CA0:0:F235:2486:8ED5:C3AA:C914]] 09:30, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
*Connections between DBs. [[User:Frettie|Frettie]] ([[User talk:Frettie|talk]]) 15:59, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
*Important update/sync mechanism for large third-party catalogs [[User:Magnus Manske|Magnus Manske]] ([[User talk:Magnus Manske|talk]]) 10:20, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
*Helps linking item around the world ;) [[User:Crazy1880|Crazy1880]] ([[User talk:Crazy1880|talk]]) 17:16, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
*As Wikidata matures and becomes more important for knowledge graphs and the products (commercial or not) built upon them, it also becomes more important to keep its quality high. This project contributes to Wikidata's quality by detecting obsolete links between Wikidata and 3rd party databases, discovering new links between Wikidata and 3rd party databases, and helping synchronize facts between Wikidata and 3rd party databases. ([[User:Nicolastorzec|Nicolastorzec]] ([[User talk:Nicolastorzec|talk]]) 00:43, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
*Matching existing items is our biggest bottleneck in integrating new data sources. Any technological help in this regard is a good thing. The team also looks strong. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:35, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
*sounds reasonable and project site is well designed [[Special:Contributions/193.154.94.42|193.154.94.42]] 05:42, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
*Link curation is hard and this will continue to make it easier and more efficient. [[User:StudiesWorld|StudiesWorld]] ([[User talk:StudiesWorld|talk]]) 11:55, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
*As we import more catalogs, we need more tools to improve the matching process. This will help. - [[User:PKM|PKM]] ([[User talk:PKM|talk]]) 21:44, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
*To complete previous work and provide more automated tools to data catalogs. [[User:Sabas88|Sabas88]] ([[User talk:Sabas88|talk]]) 14:28, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
*This is useful, a benefit for Wikidata as well as the other catalogues, and makes it easy and fun to participate in the creation of knowledge records. [[User:Sebastian Wallroth|Sebastian Wallroth]] ([[User talk:Sebastian Wallroth|talk]]) 09:04, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
* I've always been a supporter of the project, and continue to be one! [[User:Sannita|Sannita]] - ''[[User talk:Sannita|not just another it.wiki sysop]]'' 17:52, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

*Any technology that helps linking item between DBs and makes easier to participate it's a good idea [[User:Tiputini|Tiputini]] ([[User talk:Tiputini|talk]]) 18:07, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
*I particularly like the sync-ing with third party databases. [[Special:Contributions/12.39.25.130|12.39.25.130]] 15:22, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
*Essential for keeping Wikidata updated and usable for rapidly changing databases.-[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil Shah]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 02:14, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
*This is potentially valuable. To get the most of it, though, the catalogs generated for Mix 'n' Match must be improved (better identifiers and descriptions to allow decisions without *always* having to click through). Some reflection is also due on why relatively little work has been done with MnM so far. Finally, I'd like to see a clear plan for maintenance and sustainability of the project beyond the project lead's current academic context. Will community members be able to keep running the tool? [[User:Ijon|Ijon]] ([[User talk:Ijon|talk]]) 13:07, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
*The proposal promises a good extension of the first proposal, and the first proposal has really shown it's worth. Identifiers and mappings are an important part of Wikidata, and will become crucial for quality efforts. This is an extremely helpful step to further enable a quality checking approach against external data sources. I agree with Ijon that a focus should be put on making it sustainable so that the project results can be kept active without the project ongoing in the future. [[User:Denny|denny]] ([[User talk:Denny|talk]]) 15:02, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
* As Magnus Manske. [[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 15:28, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
* I'd love to see it action. As a regular MnM user, I believe feedback loop and Wikidata content validation are essential and will also be very useful for data donors.--[[User:HakanIST|HakanIST]] ([[User talk:HakanIST|talk]]) 19:09, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
[[Category:Wikidata]]
* I would like to see Wikidata landscape linked to other external catalogs and also learn how this process can be further improved. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] 15:13, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
* Looks certainly promising. [[User:ESM|ESM]] ([[User talk:ESM|talk]]) 06:27, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
* It would save many human/volunteer time. Maybe at the beginning will need some human review, I would like to hear how this revisions will be. Please take on account data repositories outside USA and Europe, and non-English-based alphabets, don't get the data biased. [[User:Salvador alc|Salvador]] ([[User talk:Salvador alc|talk]]) 05:10, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
*Mix'n'Match is a great tool, but needs good input. The ChEBI database is a good example where name matching does not work, and the matching should happen on other properties of the entities in ChEBI being matched to Wikidata (particularly: the InChIKey). If soweego can fill that gap, that would be awesome. [[User:Egon Willighagen|Egon Willighagen]] ([[User talk:Egon Willighagen|talk]]) 11:29, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
*{{support}} This would be a critical addition to the mission and work of Wikidata! Great work so far! [[User:Todrobbins|Todrobbins]] ([[User talk:Todrobbins|talk]]) 22:33, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
*Its necessary for Wikidata; we need a tool to quickly and easy add statements from sourced databases. [[User:Matlin|Matlin]] ([[User talk:Matlin|talk]]) 10:05, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
*{{support}} Important tool for establishing Wikidata as a hub for different databases. --[[User:Nw520|Nw520]] ([[User talk:Nw520|talk]]) 13:29, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
*{{s}} Sounds like a good way of handling large datasets. [[User:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|Richard Nevell (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|talk]]) 14:46, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
*{{s}} this looks like a great development for GLAM-wiki projecs too! [[User:Marta Arosio (WMIT)|Marta Arosio (WMIT)]] ([[User talk:Marta Arosio (WMIT)|talk]]) 07:27, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
*third party databases are super important for wikidata! [[User:Icebob99|Icebob99]] ([[User talk:Icebob99|talk]]) 20:58, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
*{{s}} Obvious win, promotes [[w:WP:V]] and [[w:MOS:BUILD]]. Feeding high-confidence linkages back to donor databases will both nourish them and help to highlight any issues of falsely high confidence. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 15:45, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

User talk:Hjfocs

2020-03-11T21:13:37Z

LeadSongDog: /* OpenLibrary */ new section

Grants:Project/Hjfocs/soweego

2020-03-10T19:51:22Z

LeadSongDog: /* Community notification */ fix links to archived discussions

{{Probox
|status=selected
|summary='''soweego''' automatically links existing Wikidata items about people to ''trusted'' identifier catalogs. With '''soweego''', our beloved knowledge base gets in sync with a giant volume of external information, and gets ready to become the universal linking hub of open data.
|contact1=fossati{{@}}spaziodati.eu
|advisor1=Magnus Manske
|target=Wikidata
|amount=75k EUR
|image=File:Crosscut.jpg


|project=soweego
|grantee=Hjfocs
|portal=Project
|more_participants=Yes
|translations=Probox/Project/Content
|idealab=NO
|timestamp = 10:47, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
|creator = Hjfocs
|volunteer1=TheDragonFire
|volunteer2=CristianCantoro
|volunteer3=Piotrus
|volunteer4=Lc fd
|volunteer5=MaxFrax96
}}


{{TOC_right}} 

==Project idea==
<big><code>soweego</code></big> ('''so'''''lid catalogs and '''''wee'''''kee '''''go''''' together'') is a fully automatic robot that links existing Wikidata items about people to a set of reliable external catalogs.
[[File:Crosscut.jpg|center|thumb|<code>soweego</code> aligns different identifiers, but has nothing to do with the <code>Go</code> game!]]

===Why: the problem===
Data quality in a broad knowledge base (KB) like Wikidata is a vital aspect to secure confidence on its content, thus encouraging the development of effective ways to consume it.
Wikidata is not meant to tell us the absolute truth: instead, we can see it as a container for different points of view (read ''claims'') about every little fact of our world.
These claims should always be verified against at least one reference to a trusted external source.
However, this still does not seem to be the case.
Despite specific efforts such as ''WikiFactMine''<ref name="wfm">[[:m:Grants:Project/ContentMine/WikiFactMine]]</ref> and ''StrepHit'',<ref name="strephit">[[:m:Grants:IEG/StrepHit:_Wikidata_Statements_Validation_via_References]]</ref> as well as more extensive community endeavors like ''WikiCite'',<ref name="wikicite">[[:m:WikiCite]]</ref> the lack of references is a critical issue that remains open.
Recently, the problem was further highlighted by the Wikidata product manager in her presentation at WikiCite 2017,<ref>https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1XX-yzT98fglAfFkHoixOI1XC1uwrS6f0u1xjdZT9TYI/edit?usp=sharing, slides 15 to 19</ref> where the following aspects about the KB statements clearly emerged:
* roughly '''half''' of them is totally '''unreferenced''';
* less than '''a quarter''' of them has references to '''non-wiki sources''';
* '''most''' reference values are '''internal''' links to other Wikidata '''items'''.

===How: the solution===
Alignment of Wikidata to structured databases can represent a complementary alternative to reference mining from unstructured data.<ref name="wfm" /><ref name="strephit" />
Think of an identifier as a reference to a Wikidata item: we can give force to the trustworthiness of that item if we manage to match it with the corresponding entry of an authoritative target database.

The main challenge here is to find a suitable match, keeping in mind that labels can be the same, but the entities they represent can be totally different.
This is better explained through an example: you are thinking of your favorite singer ''John Smith''. You go to Wikidata and type his name in the search text box. You get back a long list of results: John Smith the biologist, John Smith the politician, etc. Where is John Smith the singer? You find him after a while. Unfortunately, there's not much information in the Wikidata item, so you decide to go to MusicBrainz,<ref>https://musicbrainz.org/</ref> hoping you can get something more. You repeat the query there. A ton of other John Smiths appear. You finally find the one you were looking for: it's a match! There is much more data here, so you decide to link it to Wikidata.

<code>soweego</code> does this job for you: it '''disambiguates''' a source Wikidata item to a target database entry, at a large scale.
Figure 1 visually describes the solution.
[[File:Soweego solution.svg|thumb|780px|center|Figure 1: the <code>soweego</code> solution. <code>soweego</code> creates a connection (read ''performs '''disambiguation''''') between entries of the source database (Wikidata) and a target database.]]

From a technical perspective, we cast this as an entity linking task, which takes as input a Wikidata item and outputs a ranked list of identifier candidates.
The solution has two main advantages:
# it does not poses neither licensing nor privacy bones of contention, since no data import occurs;<ref><code>soweego</code> can still enable imports, but only if the community deems it appropriate for each target database, depending on its terms of use and assessed reliability</ref>
# once linking is achieved, additional structured data can be directly pulled from the target identifiers, with no overload for Wikidata.
The approach is best described through the proof of work detailed below.

===What: proof of work===
We have uploaded a demonstrative dataset to the Wikidata ''primary sources tool''.<ref name="pst">[[:d:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool]]</ref>
This is a first prototype implementation, where we link a small set of Wikidata items to their MusicBrainz identifiers.
Figure 2 and Figure 3 show screenshots of the tool with <code>soweego</code> data, displayed in a list view and on an item page respectively.
[[File:Primary sources list.png|thumb|left|Figure 2: screenshot of the Wikidata [[:d:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool|primary sources tool]], list view]]
[[File:Primary sources tool.png|thumb|right|Figure 3: screenshot of the Wikidata [[:d:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool|primary sources tool]], item view]]

<big>We invite reviewers and interested readers to activate the tool and select the <code>soweego</code> dataset: 
[[:d:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool#Give_it_a_try]]</big>

The sample proves that the project idea is fully achievable.

====SocialLink====
A similar entity linking task (focusing on DBpedia) has already been addressed in our ''SocialLink'' system,<ref>http://sociallink.futuro.media/</ref> and assessed by the research community.<ref>Nechaev, Y., Corcoglioniti, F., Giuliano, C.: [http://sociallink.futuro.media/sociallink2017sac.pdf Linking knowledge bases to social media profiles]. In: Proceedings of 32th ACM Symposium on Applied Computing (SAC 2017).</ref><ref>Nechaev, Y., Corcoglioniti, F., Giuliano, C.: [http://sociallink.futuro.media/sociallink2017iswc.pdf SocialLink: Linking DBpedia Entities to Corresponding Twitter Accounts]. In: Proceedings of 16th International Semantic Web Conference (ISWC 2017). To appear.</ref>
With <code>soweego</code>, we switch to Wikidata and to different target identifiers: consequently, we foresee to reuse the SocialLink approach as much as possible.

===Where: target selection===
To identify a relevant set of target databases, we aimed at mixing direct community feedback together with usage statistics on Wikidata.
We reached out to the Wikidata community for a first informal inquiry about which external identifiers are worth covering.<ref>https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2017-September/011109.html</ref>
Despite the fruitful discussion,<ref>https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2017-September/thread.html#11109</ref> we have not got any specific pointers for target candidates so far.
Therefore, we detail below evidence which is solely based on statistics, and recognize that the <big>'''final set of targets should be assessed via more structured community discussion'''</big>, which is already happening at the time of writing this proposal.<ref name="talk_page">[[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego]]</ref>

Given these premises, we focus on a specific use case to set the current scope for <code>soweego</code>: Wikidata items about people.
The rationale is that people represent a remarkable slice of the entire KB, namely more than 10% (3.6 millions<ref>[https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%28COUNT%28%3Fperson%29%20AS%20%3Fpeople%29%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fperson%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ5%20.%0A%7D SPARQL query 1]</ref> out of 34 million items).<ref>[[:d:Special:Statistics]]</ref> Furthermore, we assume that people are likely to be present on comprehensive external databases.

A complete list of candidate targets based on current usage can be retrieved through ''SQID'':<ref>https://tools.wmflabs.org/sqid/#/browse?type=properties <code>Select datatype</code> set to <code>ExternalId</code>, <code>Used for class</code> set to <code>human Q5</code></ref> a total of 780 Wikidata properties expect an external identifier as value, which entails the same number of databases.
We believe it is reasonable (with respect to the time frame of this proposal) to pick a set of '''4''' targets from that list, and the choice will be fully driven by community consensus.

==== Observations on the most used large-scale catalogs ====
The most used external catalog is ''VIAF'':<ref>http://viaf.org/</ref> it is linked to 25% of people in Wikidata, circa 910 thousands. <ref>[https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%28COUNT%28%3Fperson%29%20AS%20%3Fpeople%29%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fperson%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ5%20%3B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20wdt%3AP214%20%3Fviaf%20.%0A%7D SPARQL query 2]</ref>
The ''Library of Congress'' (LoC)<ref>http://id.loc.gov/</ref> and ''GND''<ref>http://www.dnb.de/EN/gnd</ref> come right after VIAF,<ref>Note that [http://www.imdb.com/ IMDb] locates before GND. However, we do not consider it, since it is a proprietary commercial database</ref> but the coverage drops to 11%, with about 413<ref>[https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%28COUNT%28%3Fperson%29%20AS%20%3Fpeople%29%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fperson%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ5%20%3B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20wdt%3AP244%20%3Floc%20.%0A%7D SPARQL query 3]</ref> and 410<ref>[https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%28COUNT%28%3Fperson%29%20AS%20%3Fpeople%29%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fperson%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ5%20%3B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20wdt%3AP227%20%3Fgnd%20.%0A%7D SPARQL query 4]</ref> thousand people respectively.
The statistics hold for living people (2.1 million), too.<ref><code>for i in {0..3580}; do curl -G -H 'Accept:text/tab-separated-values' --data-urlencode "query=SELECT * WHERE {?person wdt:P31 wd:Q5 . OPTIONAL {?person wdt:P570 ?death .}} OFFSET ""$((i*1000))"" LIMIT 1000" https://query.wikidata.org/sparql | cut -f2 | grep -c '^[^"]' >> living ; done</code></ref>
These observations, together with relevant comments by the community,<ref name="talk_page" /> serve as a starting point to further investigate the selection of our final targets.

==Project goals==
* '''G1''': to ensure ''live maintenance'' of identifiers for people in Wikidata, via link validation;
* '''G2''': to develop a set of ''linking techniques'' that align people in Wikidata to corresponding identifiers in external catalogs;
* '''G3''': to ''ingest links'' into Wikidata, either through a bot (confident links), or mediated by curation (non-confident links) through the primary sources tool;<ref name="pst" />
* '''G4''': to achieve ''exhaustive coverage'' (ideally 100%) of identifiers over 4 large-scale trusted catalogs;
* '''G5''': to deliver a self-sustainable ''application'' that can be easily operated by the community after the end of the project.

While we focus on people because of their relevance in the KB, we will build an extensible system that can scale up to other types of items (e.g., organizations, events, pieces of work).

== Project impact ==


===Output===
The deliverable outputs are as follows.
* '''D1''': a reusable ''link validator'', which will be applied to validate ''existing identifiers'' of the target databases (goal ''G1'');
* '''D2''': ''4 linkers'' that generate candidate links from people in Wikidata to the target identifiers (goal ''G2'');
* '''D3''': a ''link merger'' that can take as input ''D2'' output, as well as any links to external identifiers contributed to Wikidata (goal ''G1'');
* '''D4''': ''ingestion'' facilities for automatic or semi-automatic addition of identifiers into Wikidata (goal ''G3'');
* '''D5''': ''4 identifier datasets'' that align the maximum amount of people in Wikidata to the target databases (goal ''G4'');
* '''D6''': a ''packaged application'' (virtual machine) that contains the whole <code>soweego</code> system, ready to be operated by the Wikidata community for future use (goal ''G5'').

===Outcomes===
==== Outcome 1: a bridge to major data hubs ====
<big>''Q:'' what if reliable external catalogs become queryable from Wikidata?</big> 
<big>''A:'' everyone can use Wikidata as a source of '''federated''' knowledge.</big> 
''Q:'' but isn't Wikidata knowledge already federated? 
''A:'' partially, although the community has always been active with respect to this aspect.
Nevertheless, it may take a long time and consistent efforts to maintain identifiers, since it totally depends on the community to (eventually) take care of them.
Besides its in-scope targets ([[#Project_goals]] G4), <code>soweego</code> can be reused for new ones, as well as for live maintenance of existing ones.

Therefore, the ultimate outcome of <code>soweego</code> is the creation of a <big>tight connection between Wikidata and trusted target databases</big>.

==== Outcome 2: a pillar over the reference hole ====
In this way, <code>soweego</code> would produce another important impact: essential statements about people (e.g., name, occupation, birth date, picture) can be '''validated''' and '''referenced''' against the target, thus also <big>tackling the reference gap issue.</big>

==== Outcome 3: engagement of trusted data providers ====
Under a different perspective, <code>soweego</code> helps Wikidata become the central linking hub of open knowledge.
We believe this offers a valuable stimulus to external data providers that were not previously involved in Wikidata.
Once a target database gets exhaustively linked, the benefit for them is two-fold:
# they can automatically obtain data not only from Wikidata itself (think of statements and site links), but also from other interlinked databases;
# their data maintenance burden is dramatically reduced, since it is shifted to Wikidata.

===Measures of success<ref>As per [[:m:Grants:Metrics#Instructions_for_Project_Grants]]</ref>===

==== Project metrics ====
We foresee to upload the <code>soweego</code> datasets ([[#Output]] ''D5'') to Wikidata via the primary sources tool<ref name="pst" /> and/or a bot,<ref>[[:d:Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Bot]]</ref> depending on the estimated precision of the alignment.
In other words, we will use the primary sources tool for non-confident data needing curation by the community, and a bot for confident data.
Hence, the first success metric will be the '''approval of the bot request'''.

Concerning data uploaded to the primary sources tool, numerical success can be measured upon the amount of curated statements and the engagement of new users.
These numbers are accessible through the status page.<ref>https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-primary-sources/status.html</ref>
The <code>soweego</code> datasets should cover 2.1 million items circa, i.e., people with no identifier to the target databases.<ref>[[#Where:_use_case]]</ref>
At the time of writing this proposal, we cannot estimate the size of the non-confident dataset.
Still, we set the following success values, which should be considered as elastic, and will be eventually adjusted accordingly:
# '''20,000 curated statements''' of the non-confident dataset, counted as the number of ''approved'' plus ''rejected'' statements;
# '''25''' new primary sources tool '''users'''.

With respect to qualitative metrics, we will create a '''WikiProject'''<ref>[[:d:Wikidata:WikiProjects]]</ref> to centralize the discussion over this effort.

==== 3 shared metrics ====
The shared metrics<ref>[[m:Grants:Metrics#Three_shared_metrics]]</ref> below naturally map to the project-defined ones:
# the ''number of newly registered users'' can be extracted from the primary sources tool user base;
# the ''number of of content pages created or improved'' corresponds to Wikidata statements;
# the ''total participants'' will involve people with different backgrounds, mainly software contributors and participants to relevant events like ''WikiCite'', where librarians meet together with researchers, knowledge engineers, and data visualization designers, just to name a few.

==Project plan==


===Implementation===
[[File:soweego_workflow.svg|thumb|380px|right|alt=<code>soweego</code> workflow|Figure 4: <code>soweego</code> workflow]]
<code>soweego</code> is a piece of machine learning<ref>[[:en:Machine_learning]]</ref> software for automatic and continuous population of Wikidata.
It takes as source people items (with extensibility to any item type) and as target a set of external database entries.
It generates links between the source and the target, dynamically learning from both existing links and the human feedback (link approval/reject) resulting from manual curation via the primary sources tool.

As shown in Figure 4, <code>soweego</code> is a '''pipeline''' of the following components:
# the '''Validator''' retrieves existing links in Wikidata and performs sanity checks to validate them (e.g., it verifies that the target identifier is still valid and active). It caters for the live maintenance of links, thus helping the community identify invalid or superseded ones:
#* valid links act as positive examples for the '''training set''' used by a supervised<ref>[[:en:Supervised_learning]]</ref> linking technique;
#* invalid links act as negative examples and are made available to the community for deletion or deprecation.
# four '''Linkers''' generate '''scored candidate links''' for people in the target databases, in the form of <code><Wikidata item, property for authority control, external identifier></code> statements with confidence score and timestamp qualifiers. The SocialLink codebase<ref>https://github.com/Remper/sociallink</ref> will serve as a solid starting point for this component. A mechanism for the community to contribute additional linkers will be provided;
# the '''Merger & Consistency Checker''' analyzes, filters, and consolidates the scored candidate links, producing a merged set of links that are consistent among themselves and with respect to existing ones in Wikidata;
# two '''Ingestors''', namely a ''Bot'' and a ''Primary Sources Client'', are responsible for the Wikidata population, either directly for reliable links, or via manual curation with the ''Primary Sources Tool'' for non-reliable links.
Finally, ingested links can feed the dynamic training set with ''positive examples'', whereas rejected links can be treated as ''negative examples''.
This '''community feedback loop''' allows the training set to constantly grow, thus eventually improving the linkers performances.

===Work package===
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! ID !! Title !! Objective !! Month !! Effort
|-
| '''T1''' || Target selection || Work with the community to identify the set of external databases (goal ''G4'', deliverable ''D5'') || M1-M3 || 10%
|-
| '''T2''' || Validation || Define validation criteria and develop the validator component (goal ''G1'', deliverable ''D1'') || M1-M3 || 5%
|-
| '''T3''' || Main Linker || Adapt the SocialLink codebase to build the linker for the target with the highest priority (goal ''G2'', deliverable ''D2'') || M2-M8 || 15%
|-
| '''T4''' || Linker #2 || Extend the main linker to create one for the second target (goal ''G2'', deliverable ''D2'') || M4-M9 || 10%
|-
| '''T5''' || Linker #3 || Extend the main linker to create one for the third target (goal ''G2'', deliverable ''D2'') || M7-M12 || 10%
|-
| '''T6''' || Linker #4 || Extend the main linker to create one for the fourth entries (goal ''G2'', deliverable ''D2'') || M7-M12 || 10%
|-
| '''T7''' || Merging || Develop the merger component to output high-quality consistent links (goal ''G1'', deliverable ''D3'') || M2-M7 || 12.5%
|-
| '''T8''' || Ingestion || Develop the Primary Sources Client and the Bot ingestors to populate Wikidata (goal ''G4'', deliverable ''D4'') || M2-M7 || 10%
|-
| '''T9''' || Operation || Integrate and run the whole pipeline; supervise the ingestion of links (goal ''G4'', deliverable ''D5'') || M4-M12 || 5%
|-
| '''T10''' || Packaging || Document and package all the components in a portable solution (virtual machine) (goal ''G5'', deliverable ''D6'') || M10-M12 || 7.5%
|-
| '''T11''' || Community engagement || Promote the project and engage its key stakeholders || M1-M12 || 5%
|}
'''N.B.:''' overlap between certain tasks (in terms of timing) are needed to exploit mutual interactions among them.

===Budget===
The total amount requested is 75,238 €.

===Budget Breakdown===
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Item !! Description !! Commitment !! Cost
|-
| Project leader || In charge of the whole work package || Full time (40 hrs/week), 12 PM(1) || 53,348 €
|-
| Software architect || Technical implementation head || Full time, 12 PM || 20,690 €(2)
|-
| Software developer || Assistant for the main linker and linker #2 (T3, T4) || Part time (20 hrs/week), 8 PM || Provided by the hosting research center
|-
| Software developer || Assistant for linkers #3 and #4 (T5, T6) || Part time, 6 PM || Provided by the hosting research center
|-
| Dissemination || Registration, travel, board & lodging to 2 relevant community conferences, e.g., [[WikiCite]] || Una tantum || 1,200 €
|-
| '''Total''' || || || '''75,238''' €
|}
(1) Person Months 
(2) corresponds to 50% of the salary. The rest is covered by the hosting research center

Item costs are broken down as follows:
* the project leader's and the software architect's gross salaries are estimated upon the hosting research center (i.e., [http://www.fbk.eu Fondazione Bruno Kessler]) standard salaries,<ref>http://hr.fbk.eu/sites/hr.fbk.eu/files/ccpl_28set07_aggiornato_2009.pdf - page 82, ''Tabella B''</ref> namely ''"Ricercatore di prima fascia"'' (level 1 research scientist) and ''"Tecnologo/sperimentatore di secondo livello"'' (level 2 technical assistant) respectively. The salaries comply both with (a) the provincial collective agreement as per the ''provincial law n. 14'',<ref>http://www.consiglio.provincia.tn.it/doc/clex_26185.pdf</ref> and with (b) the national collective agreement as per the ''national law n. 240''.<ref>http://www.camera.it/parlam/leggi/10240l.htm</ref> These laws respectively regulate research and innovation activities in the area where the research center is located (i.e., Trentino, Italy), and at a national level. More specifically, the former position is set to a gross labor rate of 25.65 € per hour, and the latter to 21.55 € per hour. The rates are in line with other national research institutions, such as the universities of Trieste,<ref>https://www.units.it/intra/personale/tabelle_stipendiali/?file=tab.php&ruolo=RU - 32nd item of the <code>inquadramento</code> dropdown menu</ref> Firenze,<ref>http://www.unifi.it/upload/sub/money/2016/td_tabelle_costi_tipologia_B.xlsx</ref> and Roma;<ref>https://web.uniroma2.it/modules.php?name=Content&action=showattach&attach_id=15798</ref>
* the software developers are fully provided by the hosting research center;
* the dissemination will either cover 2 nearby events or 1 far event.

'''N.B.:''' ''Fondazione Bruno Kessler'' will be physically hosting the human resources, but it will not be directly involved into this proposal with respect to the requested budget: the project leader will serve as the main grantee and will appropriately allocate the funding.

=== Community engagement ===
Relevant communities stem from both Wikimedia and external efforts.
They are grouped depending on their scope.

==== Strategic partners ====
We share the main goal with the following ongoing or past efforts.
As such, collaboration is mutually beneficial.
* [https://www.mysociety.org/ Mysociety], via the EveryPolitician project;<ref>[[Grants:Project/EveryPolitician]]</ref>
* [[:d:Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings | Sum of all paintings]] project;
* [https://wikimedia.de/wiki/Staff#Software_Development Wikidata Developers team].

==== Identifier database owners ====
<code>soweego</code> would ensure live maintenance of external identifiers.
Therefore, the following relevant subjects can be engaged accordingly.
The list contains the most used catalogs and other that were mentioned in our first inquiry.
It is not exhaustive and may be subject to updates depending on T1 outcomes.
* [https://www.oclc.org/en/contacts/all-contacts.html OCLC organization], responsible for VIAF;
* [http://www.dnb.de/EN/Header/Kontakt/kontakt_node.html GND contacts];
* [https://www.loc.gov/contact/ LoC contacts];
* [https://metabrainz.org/team MusicBrainz team];
* [https://orcid.org/node/9 ORCID staff];<ref>https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2017-September/011117.html</ref>
* [https://www.zbw.eu/en/about-us/contact/ German National Library for Economics contacts].<ref>https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2017-September/011134.html</ref>

==== Linking Wikidata to identifiers ====
Efforts that are actively working on the addition of identifier references to Wikidata:
* [https://tools.wmflabs.org/mix-n-match Mix'n'match];
* [[:d:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool | primary sources tool]];
* [http://openrefine.org/community.html OpenRefine].

==== Importing identifiers to Wikidata ====
Efforts that aim at expanding Wikidata with new items based on external identifiers:
* [[:d:Wikidata:WikiProject_Companies | WikiProject companies]];
* [[:d:Wikidata:WikiProject_Universities | WikiProject Universities]];
* [http://contentmine.org/ ContentMine], via the WikiFactMine project.<ref>[[Grants:Project/ContentMine/WikiFactMine]]</ref>

==References==
<references />

==Get involved==


===Participants===
* '''Marco Fossati'''
:Marco (AKA {{u|Hjfocs}}) is a research scientist with a double background in natural languages and information technologies. He holds a PhD in computer science at the University of Trento, Italy and works at the [http://futuro.media/ Future Media] unit at [http://www.fbk.eu Fondazione Bruno Kessler] (FBK).
:He is currently focusing on Wikidata data quality and leads the [[:d:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool|Wikidata primary sources tool]] development, as well as the [[:m:Grants:IEG/StrepHit:_Wikidata_Statements_Validation_via_References|StrepHit]] project, funded by the Wikimedia Foundation.
:His profile is highly interdisciplinary and can be defined as a keen supporter of applied research in natural language processing, backed by a strong dissemination attitude and an innate passion for open knowledge, all blended with software engineering skills and a deep affection for human languages.

* '''Claudio Giuliano'''
:Claudio (AKA {{u|Cgiulianofbk}}) is a researcher with more than 18 years experience in natural language processing and machine learning. He is currently head of the Future Media unit at FBK, focusing on applied research to meet industry needs. He founded and led Machine Linking, a spin-off company incubated at the [http://hlt-nlp.fbk.eu/ Human Language Technologies] research unit: the main outcome is [https://bitbucket.org/fbk/twm-lib The Wiki Machine], an open-source framework that performs word sense disambiguation in more than 30 languages by finding links to Wikipedia articles in raw text. Among The Wiki Machine applications, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE7z0y61a9U Pokedem] is an intelligent agent that analyses tweets to assist human social media managers.

* '''Yaroslav Nechaev'''
:Yaroslav (AKA {{u|Remper}}) is a PhD candidate at FBK / University of Trento. He is the creator and maintainer of the [http://sociallink.futuro.media SocialLink] resource, which will be the starting point for this proposal.
:His main research focus is on natural language processing and deep learning applied to recommender systems-related challenges.

* '''Francesco Corcoglioniti'''
:Francesco (AKA {{u|Fracorco}}) is a post-doc researcher in the Future Media unit at FBK, where he combines semantic Web, machine learning, and natural language processing techniques for the analysis, processing, and extraction of knowledge from textual contents. He obtained his PhD in computer science at the University of Trento, Italy, in 2016.
*'''Advisor''' Using my experience in matching external data sources with Wikidata to give both strategic and technical advice. [[User:Magnus Manske|Magnus Manske]] ([[User talk:Magnus Manske|talk]]) 09:19, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
*'''Volunteer''' I'm a software engineer, and if there's technical assistance I can provide, give me a shout. I've been involved in reporting stuff to [[en:wikipedia:VIAF/errors]] in the past, and I'm interested in larger scale management of this data. [[User:TheDragonFire|TheDragonFire]] ([[User talk:TheDragonFire|talk]]) 10:32, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
*'''Volunteer''' Helping with ethical supervision of the project. [[User:CristianCantoro|CristianCantoro]] ([[User talk:CristianCantoro|talk]]) 12:18, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
*'''Volunteer''' Sociologist of organization input on sociology-issues, involving ethics in academia [[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 09:46, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
*'''Volunteer''' Developer [[User:Lc fd|Lc fd]] ([[User talk:Lc fd|talk]]) 18:01, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

===Community notification===
The following links include notifications and related discussions, sorted in descending order of relevance.
* Wikidata
** first investigation on which identifiers to choose: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2017-September/thread.html#11109
** need for Open Library identifiers: [[:d:Wikidata_talk:Primary_sources_tool/Archive/2017#Open_Library_identifiers]]
** request of other identifiers addition: [[:d:Wikidata_talk:Primary_sources_tool/Archive/2017#ID_gathering]]
** call for support: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2017-September/011186.html
** project chat: [[:d:Wikidata:Project_chat#Soweego:_wide-coverage_linking_of_external_identifiers..09Call_for_support]]
* WikiCite: https://groups.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/d/msg/wikicite-discuss/MzYxg8S6oIM/QIZT5ov0BwAJ
* Wiki Research: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiki-research-l/2017-September/006046.html
* Wikimedia: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-September/088672.html
* Open Glam: https://lists.okfn.org/pipermail/open-glam/2017-September/001714.html

===Endorsements===
Do you think this project should be selected for a Project Grant? Please add your name and rationale for ''endorsing'' this project below! (Other constructive feedback is welcome on the discussion page).

<div style="padding: 10px; color: black; background-color: #9e9; -moz-border-radius: 10px; -webkit-border-radius: 10px; border-radius: 10px; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; clear: both" >
<center>'''This section is for endorsements only. Please post your structured feedback on the [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego | discussion page]]'''. Thanks!</center>
<center>See the [[Grants:Project/Apply | guidelines]], ''"Next Steps"'' section, point 2: ''"The Wikimedia community is invited to endorse proposals '''or discuss''' any concerns they have on '''proposal talk pages'''."''</center>
</div>

{{s}} - This will bring great value, both for Wikidatians and external reusers of data. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 08:22, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} - Good use case for the Primary Sources Tool. Endorsement. [[User:Tomayac|Tomayac]] ([[User talk:Tomayac|talk]]) 12:42, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

{{Strong oppose}} - This would increasingly turn WikiData into a creepy surveillance tool like [[w:Maltego|Maltego]]. That alone should be grounds for rejection. Moreover, VIAF & similar identifiers relate directly to professional output, are clearly aligned with the WMF's mission, and are professionally or peer-curated, so the justification for using them in WikiData is clear. Twitter, Facebook, and other commercial social networks do not and are not, so the justification for using them in WikiData is exceedingly weak. [[User:Zazpot|Zazpot]] ([[User talk:Zazpot|talk]]) 09:25, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
:I will consider changing my opposition to support if the following changes to the proposal are made and kept:
:* Explicitly state that the project, even if extended, will only ever ingest material from, or create links from Wikimedia-run projects directly to, datasets that are peer-reviewed (e.g. MusicBrainz) or published by accredited academic bodies (e.g. VIAF), and that describe professional output.
:* Explicitly state that the project, even if extended, will never ingest material from, or create links from Wikimedia-run projects directly to, social networks, commercial or otherwise.
:* Remove all other mentions of social networks, both by name (e.g. "Twitter") and by phrase ("social network(s)" or "social media").
:* Create a new section in your proposal explicitly stating that de-anonymisation (aka "doxxing") can cause great harm to its victims, is often unlawful, and that project participants will cease and revert any part of the project that is found to facilitate it, even if this occurs during a future extension of the project. Note in that section that the project's participants are aware of and respect people's legal and moral [[w:right to privacy|right to privacy]].
:If those changes are made, please [[w:WP:PING|WP:PING]] me, and I will review them and reconsider my opposition. [[User:Zazpot|Zazpot]] ([[User talk:Zazpot|talk]]) 11:15, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
::I don't think that the proposal is talking about importing data from VIAF, MusicBrainz, Twitter or Facebook but merely to add links or identifiers. With respect to the topic of privacy, there is a [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#Privacy_issues_with_personal_information|discussion]] on the talk page. --[[User:CristianCantoro|CristianCantoro]] ([[User talk:CristianCantoro|talk]]) 16:28, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
:::[[User:CristianCantoro|CristianCantoro]], exactly: the proposal is to import (or, if you prefer, add) ''identifiers'' (presumably in the form of URIs or IRIs) to Wikidata. And the proposal [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants:Project/Hjfocs/soweego&oldid=17265238 as it stood before I raised my objection above] did indeed propose importing such identifiers from Twitter and Facebook. Such claims could be sensitive. For instance, as originally proposed, soweego might conceivably take a Wikidata entry for a person who is not notable (e.g. a junior scientist who has perhaps published one or two papers but has no desire to be in the public eye), identify their personal (i.e. ''not'' professional or work-related) Facebook profile via SocialLink with high confidence, and automatically add a claim to Wikidata that that Facebook profile belongs to that scientist. This automated, ''public'' linking together of a person's professional and private lives, without their informed consent, would be highly unethical. The fact that it would (according to the proposal) facilitate deeper mining of that person's data, such as date of birth, profile picture, etc (again, without that person's informed consent) is an example of precisely the Maltego-like doxxing or privacy violation issues I am concerned about. [[User:Zazpot|Zazpot]] ([[User talk:Zazpot|talk]]) 20:19, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
::Linking to Twitter and Facebook was removed from the proposal before the submission deadline as we believe further discussion with the community is needed, see [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#IMPORTANT:_revision_of_target_databases explanation] in the proposal talk page where we also address the four requests above --[[User:Fracorco|Fracorco]] ([[User talk:Fracorco|talk]]) 15:34, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
::::[[User:Fracorco|Fracorco]], I'm glad to see you [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#IMPORTANT:_revision_of_target_databases|explicitly discussing de-anonymization risks]], which are indeed important to avoid. However, I am not certain you recognize a slightly different concern. This concern, which I illustrated above, relates to the act of claiming connections between people's ''onymous'' personal and professional lives, or between any previously unconnected aspects of a person's private life. No such claim should earnestly be made in public unless either the subject's informed consent has been provably obtained, or the claimant can demonstrate an overwhelming public interest for making the claim ''in each case''. Making such claims in public is not the same thing as de-anonymization, but could still be a form of [[w:doxxing|doxxing]].
::::It is important to understand that many people who have online profiles are not aware of the ways in which these profiles risk their personal data being aggregated or mined. In some cases, people might not even have published that information intentionally (e.g. they might have thought that they were creating a private profile, or their children might have created the profile for them without their knowledge, or whatever). This is one of the reasons why it is unethical to assume informed consent ''even if the information is publicly accessible''.
::::Also, there is a risk that Soweego (or the humans vetting its suggestions via the PST) will make mistakes, and claim untrue things about people. Besides the chance that such a claim might conceivably constitute [[w:defamation|defamation]], there is a real possibility that it will flow into other databases created as derivative works of Wikidata. Because Wikidata is CC0-licensed, such claims in derivative databases would not necessarily have their sources declared, and could end up in all sorts of places (search engine results? unscrupulous employer screening databases?) that could cause the subject much irritation for years. Correcting a false claim in every derivative database might prove impossible for the victims. (For comparison, when credit agencies like [[w:Equifax|Equifax]] accidentally add false claims to a person's record, it can take [https://web.archive.org/web/20170913172100/http://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-reports/ substantial effort] for the victim to confirm and, finally, to correct these claims. And that is just ''one'' database.)
::::I am aware, and am relieved, that the proposal was edited such that the third item on my list above has been satisfied. If the remaining three items also come to be satisfied, I will gladly reconsider my strong opposition. [[User:Zazpot|Zazpot]] ([[User talk:Zazpot|talk]]) 20:21, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Zazpot|@Zazpot]], please see my [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants_talk%3AProject%2FHjfocs%2Fsoweego&type=revision&diff=17268116&oldid=17264739 answer] to you in the discussion page. --[[User:CristianCantoro|CristianCantoro]] ([[User talk:CristianCantoro|talk]]) 11:04, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
: From what I seen Wikidata is not filled with Facebook and Twitter accounts. [[User:D1gggg|D1gggg]] ([[User talk:D1gggg|talk]]) 00:20, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
{{s}} Wikidata and identifiers are a match made in even, they are harmless when not useful and very helpful when they indeed are. [[User:Aubrey|Aubrey]] ([[User talk:Aubrey|talk]]) 14:18, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} Very interesting ed usefull project --Susanna Giaccai 14:21, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

{{neutral}} I am a bit torn on this subject. I am a big fan of adding identifiers to Wikidata, and I do it all the time by transferring identifiers from Commons or using excellent existing tools (AuthorityControl java script) to search VIAF. Any bot that does it automatically would be great but I am not convinced that it can be done automatically. For VIAF that is all they do why build a new tool when often once you find VIAF page it already has a link to Wikidata. I would propose not to invest in very complicated matching algorithms but focus on easy matches (match names and dates of birth and death) and run the bot to constantly link wikidata to VIAF, RKD (Rijksbureau voor Kunsthistorische Documentatie), Benezit and other identifiers to content-rich databases and than parse data from those databases and upload it to Wikidata with proper references or add references of data is already there. We should also improve existing tools for manual wikidata editing it should be easier to search VIAF, RKD, Benezit, Musicbrains and all the other databases for a match and than ask human to approve or reject them. It would be also great if we could add references to existing statements by somehow saying I got it from this or that identifier. Finally I am sorry to say but I did not found [[d:Wikidata:Primary sources tool]] usable at this stage, the tool as far as I can tell does not work, and I tried it for a while. As A result I do not have high confidence that extensions to that tool will work either. I would not support extension of the tool until current version actually work. You can measure success by tracking how many edits were done with the help of the tool. [[User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] ([[User talk:Jarekt|talk]]) 02:32, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} per Aubrey above. --[[User:CristianCantoro|CristianCantoro]] ([[User talk:CristianCantoro|talk]]) 10:56, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} I'd like to support this project from the Wikidata dev team's side. I think this will be useful for Wikidata for two reasons:
# Having more identifiers in Wikidata makes Wikidata significantly more useful. It allows finding items in Wikidata by their identifiers for more catalogs. It also interlinks us with more sources on the linked open data web. This makes it easy to find additional data about a topic without the need to have all of this data in Wikidata itself.
# We are exploring checking Wikidata's data against other databases in order to find mismatches that point to issues in the data. Having more connections via identifiers is a precondition for that.
--[[User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)]] ([[User talk:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|talk]]) 11:19, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} As user of Wikidata, involved in Identifiers (WLM ID), I strongly support projects like this. --[[User:CristianNX|CristianNX]] ([[User talk:CristianNX|talk]])

{{s}} This proposal aims to make our haphazard efforts in this area more methodical, and off-load as much work as possible to machines, without compromising quality. I have tools to handle small and medium-size third-party datasets, but the "big ones" need alternative approaches. --[[User:Magnus Manske|Magnus Manske]] ([[User talk:Magnus Manske|talk]])

{{weak support}} I echo some of the concerns expressed above concerning privacy and ability to do many of these things automatically. On the privacy end, perhaps the automated work should focus on those who are verifiably deceased, and try to avoid living people. From my experience in manually matching thousands of records between wikidata and external databases, there ''are no good heuristics'' that work consistently. Name closeness is highly dependent on what the names are and the language/culture (some portions of names are very common, some short strings in names are almost unique, some names have alternate spellings that mean the same, but sometimes a single letter different means something completely different). Pretty much the same issues with geographic cues. Even when items are linked by identifiers, sometimes the match doesn't make sense - people often link their identifiers to wikipedia pages that may be about related but not quite exactly the same things... All that said, a lot can be done with automatic tools when you really are sure things are working correctly, and the general approach here seems sensible. So I do support funding this project, but I feel we made need to be careful and not over-promise about what it will actually accomplish. [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 14:12, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} --[[User:Hadi|Hadi]]

{{s}} [[User:Gamaliel|Gamaliel]] ([[User talk:Gamaliel|talk]]) 03:16, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

{{oppose}}
Authority coreferencing is extremely important to me (see [[Wikidata:WikiProject_Authority_control]]: notified that project so people can comment here). Regretfully, I think this proposal has many flaws, see detailed discussion at [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#Proposal_shortcomings]] --[[User:Vladimir Alexiev|Vladimir Alexiev]] ([[User talk:Vladimir Alexiev|talk]]) 09:34, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} --[[User:Nonoranonqui|Chiara]] The project allows to include references - maybe not verified -, doesn't include in other national or international authority tools, but very useful to identify people. The only thing that matters is to declare that are references not verified!

{{wait}}: as outlined [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#Slightly_premature.3F|in my comments on the talk page]] I think this proposal is a bit premature. But I would likely support the proposal if submitted for the next round (at this point the Primary Sources Tool should be fully functional). − [[User:Pintoch|Pintoch]] ([[User talk:Pintoch|talk]]) 09:19, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

{{wait}}: Tools for creating mappings between Wikidata and authorities/knowledge organization systems are very relevant for my work. However, I think various issues raised here and on the talk page (particularly how privcacy concerns can be addressed in the proposed workflows, and the [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#Proposal_shortcomings|shortcomings of the proposal in its current state]] as noted by [[User:Vladimir_Alexiev|Vladimir Alexiev]]) should be considered and integrated into a reworked version of the proposal. [[User:Jneubert|Jneubert]] ([[User talk:Jneubert|talk]]) 11:03, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} As per Lydia Pintscher above. I also want to vouch, for what's worth, for the grantee: he already did a good work with his [[Grants:IEG/StrepHit: Wikidata Statements Validation via References|StreptHit project]], and I'm certain he'll continue to provide us with useful tools to get a better Wikidata going. [[User:Sannita|Sannita]] - ''[[User talk:Sannita|not just another it.wiki sysop]]'' 13:30, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} The output of this project would be very useful indeed for a plethora of initiatives- [[User:Essepuntato|Essepuntato]] ([[User talk:Essepuntato|talk]]) 16:45, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} It's a very important initiative that definitely needs to move forward in order to improving Wikidata as a central knowledge hub. But I share the concern raised by [[User:Pintoch|Pintoch]], we need to have Primary Sources working well to make this proposal fully functional. [[User:Tpt|Tpt]] ([[User talk:Tpt|talk]]) 15:42, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} Clearly the data items need to have these links to other authorities in order to reduce ambiguity, and to allow for the validation of other claims. As we are, I can see that many of the claims I am making by hand, could be easily done and verified by automated means. Given the large scale of wikidata, teh more work done automatically the better. Leaving only the problematic claims to be done by humans. I think Hjfocs is very well suited to this type of work. [[User:Danrok|Danrok]] ([[User talk:Danrok|talk]]) 18:19, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} The overall strategy appears sound to improve the rate of identifier linking and vetting of match quality. I strongly support this project. The linked Identifier creates a network effect of value growth for WikiData and since human vetting still takes place on the questionable match quality matches this appears to create a valuable foundation for the growth of linked data and semantic work. [[User:Wolfgang8741|Wolfgang8741]] ([[User talk:Wolfgang8741|talk]]) 23:41, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} identifier linking tools are alwasy very useful! I hope it will be accessible to people not familiar with Wikidata. [[User:Nattes à chat|Nattes à chat]]

{{s}} Useful. [[User:Moheen Reeyad|~ Moheen]] [[User Talk:Moheen Reeyad|(keep talking)]] 18:07, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} - This will be good, nice tools will be good. --[[User:Frettie|Frettie]] ([[User talk:Frettie|talk]]) 06:46, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} [[User:Csyogi|Csyogi]] ([[User talk:Csyogi|talk]]) 14:42, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

[[Category:Wikidata]]
*Something like this needed for maintenance of the data. [[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil Shah]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 05:59, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
*This can save a lot of manual work, that is also possible to do with a bot-account. I support this project! [[User:QZanden|QZanden]] ([[User talk:QZanden|talk]]) 22:43, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} Positive. [[User:Yeza|Yeza]] ([[User talk:Yeza|talk]]) 04:36, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} It seems to me that it can be a really useful project. [[Utente:Uomovariabile|'''Uomovariabile''']] ([[User talk:Uomovariabile|talk to me]]) 06:58, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} very good tool to improve data quality with reliable references [[User:Projekt ANA|Projekt ANA]] ([[User talk:Projekt ANA|talk]]) 19:33, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
*per Magnus Manske. [[User:Quiddity|Quiddity]] ([[User talk:Quiddity|talk]]) 20:10, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
*Because of more linkin items. [[User:Crazy1880|Crazy1880]] ([[User talk:Crazy1880|talk]]) 15:28, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
*{{s}}Per Lydia: "''Having more identifiers in Wikidata makes Wikidata significantly more useful''". [[User:Yiyi|Yiyi]] ([[User talk:Yiyi|talk]]) 22:30, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
*a useful tool no doubt [[User:Oluwa2Chainz|Oluwa2Chainz]] ([[User talk:Oluwa2Chainz|talk]]) 16:52, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} I think it is very useful to develop further interlinking algorithms for Wikidata, and the fact the Magnus Manske pointed out that new solutions are needed for big data sets suggests that this project can fill in a gap.
* I also think that the proposed consistency checking step is interesting.
* I would like to see a solution that not only focuses on aligning people, but rather any type of Wikidata item, but I can understand that it is easier to focus on one type first.
* I think it would also be convenient to integrate existing solutions tighter -- if these algorithms require human validation, it might make sense to request such human input via Mix'n'Match, as much as possible. My point is that, it might be good to centralise some use cases in already successful tools. [[User:Criscod|Criscod]] ([[User talk:Criscod|talk]]) 08:24, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
{{s}} Hopefully we would get ways to get reasonable coverage quickly. Control over "frequency of mistakes" would be useful, but probably difficult to implement. Other projects have more specific goals, different from this project. [[User:D1gggg|D1gggg]] ([[User talk:D1gggg|talk]]) 00:16, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} Seems like a useful project that could increase the amount of referenced entities. [[User:Mikeshowalter|Mikeshowalter]] ([[User talk:Mikeshowalter|talk]]) 22:19, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

{{wait}}, need to resolve privacy issues as mentioned by Zazpot. If it is only use to check and merge wikidata doubles, that's OK. Need to resolve issues from here: [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#Privacy issues with personal information]] first [[User:Popolon|Popolon]] ([[User talk:Popolon|talk]]) 12:47, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
*Great project, it will be a great tool to Wikidata. [[User:Escudero|Escudero]] ([[User talk:Escudero|talk]]) 18:15, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
* {{support}} We need such good tools for Wikidata. [[User:Conny|Conny]] ([[User talk:Conny|talk]]) 20:34, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
*{{s}} Tools like this are really vital to make Wikidata a good resource, and existing tools actually do what they set out to do well. I actually think it's pretty worthwhile to link social media sites for certain people--public figures, entertainers--but I can see how this tool isn't the best way to do this and it's good this is going to be very focused on identifiers, since adding them is a necessary step to improve Wikidata and needs a new approach. —[[User:Innotata|''innotata'']] 23:59, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
*I support this proposal. However, the time and budget plan seem very ambitious. Thus I would recommend applying for external funding also. [[Special:Contributions/89.204.135.140|89.204.135.140]] 06:59, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
*{{support}} I think efforts to link Wikidata to existing semantic datasets are very valuable. --[[User:A3nm|A3nm]] ([[User talk:A3nm|talk]]) 09:05, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
*{{support}} Seems like a good idea. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 06:46, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
[[Category:Project Grant funded in FY 2017-2018]]
*{{support}} This would be a critical addition to the mission and work of Wikidata! Great work so far! [[User:Todrobbins|Todrobbins]] ([[User talk:Todrobbins|talk]]) 16:47, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Grants:Project/Hjfocs/soweego

2020-03-10T19:49:05Z

LeadSongDog: /* Community notification */ fix archived link

{{Probox
|status=selected
|summary='''soweego''' automatically links existing Wikidata items about people to ''trusted'' identifier catalogs. With '''soweego''', our beloved knowledge base gets in sync with a giant volume of external information, and gets ready to become the universal linking hub of open data.
|contact1=fossati{{@}}spaziodati.eu
|advisor1=Magnus Manske
|target=Wikidata
|amount=75k EUR
|image=File:Crosscut.jpg


|project=soweego
|grantee=Hjfocs
|portal=Project
|more_participants=Yes
|translations=Probox/Project/Content
|idealab=NO
|timestamp = 10:47, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
|creator = Hjfocs
|volunteer1=TheDragonFire
|volunteer2=CristianCantoro
|volunteer3=Piotrus
|volunteer4=Lc fd
|volunteer5=MaxFrax96
}}


{{TOC_right}} 

==Project idea==
<big><code>soweego</code></big> ('''so'''''lid catalogs and '''''wee'''''kee '''''go''''' together'') is a fully automatic robot that links existing Wikidata items about people to a set of reliable external catalogs.
[[File:Crosscut.jpg|center|thumb|<code>soweego</code> aligns different identifiers, but has nothing to do with the <code>Go</code> game!]]

===Why: the problem===
Data quality in a broad knowledge base (KB) like Wikidata is a vital aspect to secure confidence on its content, thus encouraging the development of effective ways to consume it.
Wikidata is not meant to tell us the absolute truth: instead, we can see it as a container for different points of view (read ''claims'') about every little fact of our world.
These claims should always be verified against at least one reference to a trusted external source.
However, this still does not seem to be the case.
Despite specific efforts such as ''WikiFactMine''<ref name="wfm">[[:m:Grants:Project/ContentMine/WikiFactMine]]</ref> and ''StrepHit'',<ref name="strephit">[[:m:Grants:IEG/StrepHit:_Wikidata_Statements_Validation_via_References]]</ref> as well as more extensive community endeavors like ''WikiCite'',<ref name="wikicite">[[:m:WikiCite]]</ref> the lack of references is a critical issue that remains open.
Recently, the problem was further highlighted by the Wikidata product manager in her presentation at WikiCite 2017,<ref>https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1XX-yzT98fglAfFkHoixOI1XC1uwrS6f0u1xjdZT9TYI/edit?usp=sharing, slides 15 to 19</ref> where the following aspects about the KB statements clearly emerged:
* roughly '''half''' of them is totally '''unreferenced''';
* less than '''a quarter''' of them has references to '''non-wiki sources''';
* '''most''' reference values are '''internal''' links to other Wikidata '''items'''.

===How: the solution===
Alignment of Wikidata to structured databases can represent a complementary alternative to reference mining from unstructured data.<ref name="wfm" /><ref name="strephit" />
Think of an identifier as a reference to a Wikidata item: we can give force to the trustworthiness of that item if we manage to match it with the corresponding entry of an authoritative target database.

The main challenge here is to find a suitable match, keeping in mind that labels can be the same, but the entities they represent can be totally different.
This is better explained through an example: you are thinking of your favorite singer ''John Smith''. You go to Wikidata and type his name in the search text box. You get back a long list of results: John Smith the biologist, John Smith the politician, etc. Where is John Smith the singer? You find him after a while. Unfortunately, there's not much information in the Wikidata item, so you decide to go to MusicBrainz,<ref>https://musicbrainz.org/</ref> hoping you can get something more. You repeat the query there. A ton of other John Smiths appear. You finally find the one you were looking for: it's a match! There is much more data here, so you decide to link it to Wikidata.

<code>soweego</code> does this job for you: it '''disambiguates''' a source Wikidata item to a target database entry, at a large scale.
Figure 1 visually describes the solution.
[[File:Soweego solution.svg|thumb|780px|center|Figure 1: the <code>soweego</code> solution. <code>soweego</code> creates a connection (read ''performs '''disambiguation''''') between entries of the source database (Wikidata) and a target database.]]

From a technical perspective, we cast this as an entity linking task, which takes as input a Wikidata item and outputs a ranked list of identifier candidates.
The solution has two main advantages:
# it does not poses neither licensing nor privacy bones of contention, since no data import occurs;<ref><code>soweego</code> can still enable imports, but only if the community deems it appropriate for each target database, depending on its terms of use and assessed reliability</ref>
# once linking is achieved, additional structured data can be directly pulled from the target identifiers, with no overload for Wikidata.
The approach is best described through the proof of work detailed below.

===What: proof of work===
We have uploaded a demonstrative dataset to the Wikidata ''primary sources tool''.<ref name="pst">[[:d:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool]]</ref>
This is a first prototype implementation, where we link a small set of Wikidata items to their MusicBrainz identifiers.
Figure 2 and Figure 3 show screenshots of the tool with <code>soweego</code> data, displayed in a list view and on an item page respectively.
[[File:Primary sources list.png|thumb|left|Figure 2: screenshot of the Wikidata [[:d:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool|primary sources tool]], list view]]
[[File:Primary sources tool.png|thumb|right|Figure 3: screenshot of the Wikidata [[:d:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool|primary sources tool]], item view]]

<big>We invite reviewers and interested readers to activate the tool and select the <code>soweego</code> dataset: 
[[:d:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool#Give_it_a_try]]</big>

The sample proves that the project idea is fully achievable.

====SocialLink====
A similar entity linking task (focusing on DBpedia) has already been addressed in our ''SocialLink'' system,<ref>http://sociallink.futuro.media/</ref> and assessed by the research community.<ref>Nechaev, Y., Corcoglioniti, F., Giuliano, C.: [http://sociallink.futuro.media/sociallink2017sac.pdf Linking knowledge bases to social media profiles]. In: Proceedings of 32th ACM Symposium on Applied Computing (SAC 2017).</ref><ref>Nechaev, Y., Corcoglioniti, F., Giuliano, C.: [http://sociallink.futuro.media/sociallink2017iswc.pdf SocialLink: Linking DBpedia Entities to Corresponding Twitter Accounts]. In: Proceedings of 16th International Semantic Web Conference (ISWC 2017). To appear.</ref>
With <code>soweego</code>, we switch to Wikidata and to different target identifiers: consequently, we foresee to reuse the SocialLink approach as much as possible.

===Where: target selection===
To identify a relevant set of target databases, we aimed at mixing direct community feedback together with usage statistics on Wikidata.
We reached out to the Wikidata community for a first informal inquiry about which external identifiers are worth covering.<ref>https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2017-September/011109.html</ref>
Despite the fruitful discussion,<ref>https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2017-September/thread.html#11109</ref> we have not got any specific pointers for target candidates so far.
Therefore, we detail below evidence which is solely based on statistics, and recognize that the <big>'''final set of targets should be assessed via more structured community discussion'''</big>, which is already happening at the time of writing this proposal.<ref name="talk_page">[[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego]]</ref>

Given these premises, we focus on a specific use case to set the current scope for <code>soweego</code>: Wikidata items about people.
The rationale is that people represent a remarkable slice of the entire KB, namely more than 10% (3.6 millions<ref>[https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%28COUNT%28%3Fperson%29%20AS%20%3Fpeople%29%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fperson%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ5%20.%0A%7D SPARQL query 1]</ref> out of 34 million items).<ref>[[:d:Special:Statistics]]</ref> Furthermore, we assume that people are likely to be present on comprehensive external databases.

A complete list of candidate targets based on current usage can be retrieved through ''SQID'':<ref>https://tools.wmflabs.org/sqid/#/browse?type=properties <code>Select datatype</code> set to <code>ExternalId</code>, <code>Used for class</code> set to <code>human Q5</code></ref> a total of 780 Wikidata properties expect an external identifier as value, which entails the same number of databases.
We believe it is reasonable (with respect to the time frame of this proposal) to pick a set of '''4''' targets from that list, and the choice will be fully driven by community consensus.

==== Observations on the most used large-scale catalogs ====
The most used external catalog is ''VIAF'':<ref>http://viaf.org/</ref> it is linked to 25% of people in Wikidata, circa 910 thousands. <ref>[https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%28COUNT%28%3Fperson%29%20AS%20%3Fpeople%29%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fperson%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ5%20%3B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20wdt%3AP214%20%3Fviaf%20.%0A%7D SPARQL query 2]</ref>
The ''Library of Congress'' (LoC)<ref>http://id.loc.gov/</ref> and ''GND''<ref>http://www.dnb.de/EN/gnd</ref> come right after VIAF,<ref>Note that [http://www.imdb.com/ IMDb] locates before GND. However, we do not consider it, since it is a proprietary commercial database</ref> but the coverage drops to 11%, with about 413<ref>[https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%28COUNT%28%3Fperson%29%20AS%20%3Fpeople%29%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fperson%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ5%20%3B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20wdt%3AP244%20%3Floc%20.%0A%7D SPARQL query 3]</ref> and 410<ref>[https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%28COUNT%28%3Fperson%29%20AS%20%3Fpeople%29%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fperson%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ5%20%3B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20wdt%3AP227%20%3Fgnd%20.%0A%7D SPARQL query 4]</ref> thousand people respectively.
The statistics hold for living people (2.1 million), too.<ref><code>for i in {0..3580}; do curl -G -H 'Accept:text/tab-separated-values' --data-urlencode "query=SELECT * WHERE {?person wdt:P31 wd:Q5 . OPTIONAL {?person wdt:P570 ?death .}} OFFSET ""$((i*1000))"" LIMIT 1000" https://query.wikidata.org/sparql | cut -f2 | grep -c '^[^"]' >> living ; done</code></ref>
These observations, together with relevant comments by the community,<ref name="talk_page" /> serve as a starting point to further investigate the selection of our final targets.

==Project goals==
* '''G1''': to ensure ''live maintenance'' of identifiers for people in Wikidata, via link validation;
* '''G2''': to develop a set of ''linking techniques'' that align people in Wikidata to corresponding identifiers in external catalogs;
* '''G3''': to ''ingest links'' into Wikidata, either through a bot (confident links), or mediated by curation (non-confident links) through the primary sources tool;<ref name="pst" />
* '''G4''': to achieve ''exhaustive coverage'' (ideally 100%) of identifiers over 4 large-scale trusted catalogs;
* '''G5''': to deliver a self-sustainable ''application'' that can be easily operated by the community after the end of the project.

While we focus on people because of their relevance in the KB, we will build an extensible system that can scale up to other types of items (e.g., organizations, events, pieces of work).

== Project impact ==


===Output===
The deliverable outputs are as follows.
* '''D1''': a reusable ''link validator'', which will be applied to validate ''existing identifiers'' of the target databases (goal ''G1'');
* '''D2''': ''4 linkers'' that generate candidate links from people in Wikidata to the target identifiers (goal ''G2'');
* '''D3''': a ''link merger'' that can take as input ''D2'' output, as well as any links to external identifiers contributed to Wikidata (goal ''G1'');
* '''D4''': ''ingestion'' facilities for automatic or semi-automatic addition of identifiers into Wikidata (goal ''G3'');
* '''D5''': ''4 identifier datasets'' that align the maximum amount of people in Wikidata to the target databases (goal ''G4'');
* '''D6''': a ''packaged application'' (virtual machine) that contains the whole <code>soweego</code> system, ready to be operated by the Wikidata community for future use (goal ''G5'').

===Outcomes===
==== Outcome 1: a bridge to major data hubs ====
<big>''Q:'' what if reliable external catalogs become queryable from Wikidata?</big> 
<big>''A:'' everyone can use Wikidata as a source of '''federated''' knowledge.</big> 
''Q:'' but isn't Wikidata knowledge already federated? 
''A:'' partially, although the community has always been active with respect to this aspect.
Nevertheless, it may take a long time and consistent efforts to maintain identifiers, since it totally depends on the community to (eventually) take care of them.
Besides its in-scope targets ([[#Project_goals]] G4), <code>soweego</code> can be reused for new ones, as well as for live maintenance of existing ones.

Therefore, the ultimate outcome of <code>soweego</code> is the creation of a <big>tight connection between Wikidata and trusted target databases</big>.

==== Outcome 2: a pillar over the reference hole ====
In this way, <code>soweego</code> would produce another important impact: essential statements about people (e.g., name, occupation, birth date, picture) can be '''validated''' and '''referenced''' against the target, thus also <big>tackling the reference gap issue.</big>

==== Outcome 3: engagement of trusted data providers ====
Under a different perspective, <code>soweego</code> helps Wikidata become the central linking hub of open knowledge.
We believe this offers a valuable stimulus to external data providers that were not previously involved in Wikidata.
Once a target database gets exhaustively linked, the benefit for them is two-fold:
# they can automatically obtain data not only from Wikidata itself (think of statements and site links), but also from other interlinked databases;
# their data maintenance burden is dramatically reduced, since it is shifted to Wikidata.

===Measures of success<ref>As per [[:m:Grants:Metrics#Instructions_for_Project_Grants]]</ref>===

==== Project metrics ====
We foresee to upload the <code>soweego</code> datasets ([[#Output]] ''D5'') to Wikidata via the primary sources tool<ref name="pst" /> and/or a bot,<ref>[[:d:Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Bot]]</ref> depending on the estimated precision of the alignment.
In other words, we will use the primary sources tool for non-confident data needing curation by the community, and a bot for confident data.
Hence, the first success metric will be the '''approval of the bot request'''.

Concerning data uploaded to the primary sources tool, numerical success can be measured upon the amount of curated statements and the engagement of new users.
These numbers are accessible through the status page.<ref>https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-primary-sources/status.html</ref>
The <code>soweego</code> datasets should cover 2.1 million items circa, i.e., people with no identifier to the target databases.<ref>[[#Where:_use_case]]</ref>
At the time of writing this proposal, we cannot estimate the size of the non-confident dataset.
Still, we set the following success values, which should be considered as elastic, and will be eventually adjusted accordingly:
# '''20,000 curated statements''' of the non-confident dataset, counted as the number of ''approved'' plus ''rejected'' statements;
# '''25''' new primary sources tool '''users'''.

With respect to qualitative metrics, we will create a '''WikiProject'''<ref>[[:d:Wikidata:WikiProjects]]</ref> to centralize the discussion over this effort.

==== 3 shared metrics ====
The shared metrics<ref>[[m:Grants:Metrics#Three_shared_metrics]]</ref> below naturally map to the project-defined ones:
# the ''number of newly registered users'' can be extracted from the primary sources tool user base;
# the ''number of of content pages created or improved'' corresponds to Wikidata statements;
# the ''total participants'' will involve people with different backgrounds, mainly software contributors and participants to relevant events like ''WikiCite'', where librarians meet together with researchers, knowledge engineers, and data visualization designers, just to name a few.

==Project plan==


===Implementation===
[[File:soweego_workflow.svg|thumb|380px|right|alt=<code>soweego</code> workflow|Figure 4: <code>soweego</code> workflow]]
<code>soweego</code> is a piece of machine learning<ref>[[:en:Machine_learning]]</ref> software for automatic and continuous population of Wikidata.
It takes as source people items (with extensibility to any item type) and as target a set of external database entries.
It generates links between the source and the target, dynamically learning from both existing links and the human feedback (link approval/reject) resulting from manual curation via the primary sources tool.

As shown in Figure 4, <code>soweego</code> is a '''pipeline''' of the following components:
# the '''Validator''' retrieves existing links in Wikidata and performs sanity checks to validate them (e.g., it verifies that the target identifier is still valid and active). It caters for the live maintenance of links, thus helping the community identify invalid or superseded ones:
#* valid links act as positive examples for the '''training set''' used by a supervised<ref>[[:en:Supervised_learning]]</ref> linking technique;
#* invalid links act as negative examples and are made available to the community for deletion or deprecation.
# four '''Linkers''' generate '''scored candidate links''' for people in the target databases, in the form of <code><Wikidata item, property for authority control, external identifier></code> statements with confidence score and timestamp qualifiers. The SocialLink codebase<ref>https://github.com/Remper/sociallink</ref> will serve as a solid starting point for this component. A mechanism for the community to contribute additional linkers will be provided;
# the '''Merger & Consistency Checker''' analyzes, filters, and consolidates the scored candidate links, producing a merged set of links that are consistent among themselves and with respect to existing ones in Wikidata;
# two '''Ingestors''', namely a ''Bot'' and a ''Primary Sources Client'', are responsible for the Wikidata population, either directly for reliable links, or via manual curation with the ''Primary Sources Tool'' for non-reliable links.
Finally, ingested links can feed the dynamic training set with ''positive examples'', whereas rejected links can be treated as ''negative examples''.
This '''community feedback loop''' allows the training set to constantly grow, thus eventually improving the linkers performances.

===Work package===
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! ID !! Title !! Objective !! Month !! Effort
|-
| '''T1''' || Target selection || Work with the community to identify the set of external databases (goal ''G4'', deliverable ''D5'') || M1-M3 || 10%
|-
| '''T2''' || Validation || Define validation criteria and develop the validator component (goal ''G1'', deliverable ''D1'') || M1-M3 || 5%
|-
| '''T3''' || Main Linker || Adapt the SocialLink codebase to build the linker for the target with the highest priority (goal ''G2'', deliverable ''D2'') || M2-M8 || 15%
|-
| '''T4''' || Linker #2 || Extend the main linker to create one for the second target (goal ''G2'', deliverable ''D2'') || M4-M9 || 10%
|-
| '''T5''' || Linker #3 || Extend the main linker to create one for the third target (goal ''G2'', deliverable ''D2'') || M7-M12 || 10%
|-
| '''T6''' || Linker #4 || Extend the main linker to create one for the fourth entries (goal ''G2'', deliverable ''D2'') || M7-M12 || 10%
|-
| '''T7''' || Merging || Develop the merger component to output high-quality consistent links (goal ''G1'', deliverable ''D3'') || M2-M7 || 12.5%
|-
| '''T8''' || Ingestion || Develop the Primary Sources Client and the Bot ingestors to populate Wikidata (goal ''G4'', deliverable ''D4'') || M2-M7 || 10%
|-
| '''T9''' || Operation || Integrate and run the whole pipeline; supervise the ingestion of links (goal ''G4'', deliverable ''D5'') || M4-M12 || 5%
|-
| '''T10''' || Packaging || Document and package all the components in a portable solution (virtual machine) (goal ''G5'', deliverable ''D6'') || M10-M12 || 7.5%
|-
| '''T11''' || Community engagement || Promote the project and engage its key stakeholders || M1-M12 || 5%
|}
'''N.B.:''' overlap between certain tasks (in terms of timing) are needed to exploit mutual interactions among them.

===Budget===
The total amount requested is 75,238 €.

===Budget Breakdown===
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Item !! Description !! Commitment !! Cost
|-
| Project leader || In charge of the whole work package || Full time (40 hrs/week), 12 PM(1) || 53,348 €
|-
| Software architect || Technical implementation head || Full time, 12 PM || 20,690 €(2)
|-
| Software developer || Assistant for the main linker and linker #2 (T3, T4) || Part time (20 hrs/week), 8 PM || Provided by the hosting research center
|-
| Software developer || Assistant for linkers #3 and #4 (T5, T6) || Part time, 6 PM || Provided by the hosting research center
|-
| Dissemination || Registration, travel, board & lodging to 2 relevant community conferences, e.g., [[WikiCite]] || Una tantum || 1,200 €
|-
| '''Total''' || || || '''75,238''' €
|}
(1) Person Months 
(2) corresponds to 50% of the salary. The rest is covered by the hosting research center

Item costs are broken down as follows:
* the project leader's and the software architect's gross salaries are estimated upon the hosting research center (i.e., [http://www.fbk.eu Fondazione Bruno Kessler]) standard salaries,<ref>http://hr.fbk.eu/sites/hr.fbk.eu/files/ccpl_28set07_aggiornato_2009.pdf - page 82, ''Tabella B''</ref> namely ''"Ricercatore di prima fascia"'' (level 1 research scientist) and ''"Tecnologo/sperimentatore di secondo livello"'' (level 2 technical assistant) respectively. The salaries comply both with (a) the provincial collective agreement as per the ''provincial law n. 14'',<ref>http://www.consiglio.provincia.tn.it/doc/clex_26185.pdf</ref> and with (b) the national collective agreement as per the ''national law n. 240''.<ref>http://www.camera.it/parlam/leggi/10240l.htm</ref> These laws respectively regulate research and innovation activities in the area where the research center is located (i.e., Trentino, Italy), and at a national level. More specifically, the former position is set to a gross labor rate of 25.65 € per hour, and the latter to 21.55 € per hour. The rates are in line with other national research institutions, such as the universities of Trieste,<ref>https://www.units.it/intra/personale/tabelle_stipendiali/?file=tab.php&ruolo=RU - 32nd item of the <code>inquadramento</code> dropdown menu</ref> Firenze,<ref>http://www.unifi.it/upload/sub/money/2016/td_tabelle_costi_tipologia_B.xlsx</ref> and Roma;<ref>https://web.uniroma2.it/modules.php?name=Content&action=showattach&attach_id=15798</ref>
* the software developers are fully provided by the hosting research center;
* the dissemination will either cover 2 nearby events or 1 far event.

'''N.B.:''' ''Fondazione Bruno Kessler'' will be physically hosting the human resources, but it will not be directly involved into this proposal with respect to the requested budget: the project leader will serve as the main grantee and will appropriately allocate the funding.

=== Community engagement ===
Relevant communities stem from both Wikimedia and external efforts.
They are grouped depending on their scope.

==== Strategic partners ====
We share the main goal with the following ongoing or past efforts.
As such, collaboration is mutually beneficial.
* [https://www.mysociety.org/ Mysociety], via the EveryPolitician project;<ref>[[Grants:Project/EveryPolitician]]</ref>
* [[:d:Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings | Sum of all paintings]] project;
* [https://wikimedia.de/wiki/Staff#Software_Development Wikidata Developers team].

==== Identifier database owners ====
<code>soweego</code> would ensure live maintenance of external identifiers.
Therefore, the following relevant subjects can be engaged accordingly.
The list contains the most used catalogs and other that were mentioned in our first inquiry.
It is not exhaustive and may be subject to updates depending on T1 outcomes.
* [https://www.oclc.org/en/contacts/all-contacts.html OCLC organization], responsible for VIAF;
* [http://www.dnb.de/EN/Header/Kontakt/kontakt_node.html GND contacts];
* [https://www.loc.gov/contact/ LoC contacts];
* [https://metabrainz.org/team MusicBrainz team];
* [https://orcid.org/node/9 ORCID staff];<ref>https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2017-September/011117.html</ref>
* [https://www.zbw.eu/en/about-us/contact/ German National Library for Economics contacts].<ref>https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2017-September/011134.html</ref>

==== Linking Wikidata to identifiers ====
Efforts that are actively working on the addition of identifier references to Wikidata:
* [https://tools.wmflabs.org/mix-n-match Mix'n'match];
* [[:d:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool | primary sources tool]];
* [http://openrefine.org/community.html OpenRefine].

==== Importing identifiers to Wikidata ====
Efforts that aim at expanding Wikidata with new items based on external identifiers:
* [[:d:Wikidata:WikiProject_Companies | WikiProject companies]];
* [[:d:Wikidata:WikiProject_Universities | WikiProject Universities]];
* [http://contentmine.org/ ContentMine], via the WikiFactMine project.<ref>[[Grants:Project/ContentMine/WikiFactMine]]</ref>

==References==
<references />

==Get involved==


===Participants===
* '''Marco Fossati'''
:Marco (AKA {{u|Hjfocs}}) is a research scientist with a double background in natural languages and information technologies. He holds a PhD in computer science at the University of Trento, Italy and works at the [http://futuro.media/ Future Media] unit at [http://www.fbk.eu Fondazione Bruno Kessler] (FBK).
:He is currently focusing on Wikidata data quality and leads the [[:d:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool|Wikidata primary sources tool]] development, as well as the [[:m:Grants:IEG/StrepHit:_Wikidata_Statements_Validation_via_References|StrepHit]] project, funded by the Wikimedia Foundation.
:His profile is highly interdisciplinary and can be defined as a keen supporter of applied research in natural language processing, backed by a strong dissemination attitude and an innate passion for open knowledge, all blended with software engineering skills and a deep affection for human languages.

* '''Claudio Giuliano'''
:Claudio (AKA {{u|Cgiulianofbk}}) is a researcher with more than 18 years experience in natural language processing and machine learning. He is currently head of the Future Media unit at FBK, focusing on applied research to meet industry needs. He founded and led Machine Linking, a spin-off company incubated at the [http://hlt-nlp.fbk.eu/ Human Language Technologies] research unit: the main outcome is [https://bitbucket.org/fbk/twm-lib The Wiki Machine], an open-source framework that performs word sense disambiguation in more than 30 languages by finding links to Wikipedia articles in raw text. Among The Wiki Machine applications, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE7z0y61a9U Pokedem] is an intelligent agent that analyses tweets to assist human social media managers.

* '''Yaroslav Nechaev'''
:Yaroslav (AKA {{u|Remper}}) is a PhD candidate at FBK / University of Trento. He is the creator and maintainer of the [http://sociallink.futuro.media SocialLink] resource, which will be the starting point for this proposal.
:His main research focus is on natural language processing and deep learning applied to recommender systems-related challenges.

* '''Francesco Corcoglioniti'''
:Francesco (AKA {{u|Fracorco}}) is a post-doc researcher in the Future Media unit at FBK, where he combines semantic Web, machine learning, and natural language processing techniques for the analysis, processing, and extraction of knowledge from textual contents. He obtained his PhD in computer science at the University of Trento, Italy, in 2016.
*'''Advisor''' Using my experience in matching external data sources with Wikidata to give both strategic and technical advice. [[User:Magnus Manske|Magnus Manske]] ([[User talk:Magnus Manske|talk]]) 09:19, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
*'''Volunteer''' I'm a software engineer, and if there's technical assistance I can provide, give me a shout. I've been involved in reporting stuff to [[en:wikipedia:VIAF/errors]] in the past, and I'm interested in larger scale management of this data. [[User:TheDragonFire|TheDragonFire]] ([[User talk:TheDragonFire|talk]]) 10:32, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
*'''Volunteer''' Helping with ethical supervision of the project. [[User:CristianCantoro|CristianCantoro]] ([[User talk:CristianCantoro|talk]]) 12:18, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
*'''Volunteer''' Sociologist of organization input on sociology-issues, involving ethics in academia [[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 09:46, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
*'''Volunteer''' Developer [[User:Lc fd|Lc fd]] ([[User talk:Lc fd|talk]]) 18:01, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

===Community notification===
The following links include notifications and related discussions, sorted in descending order of relevance.
* Wikidata
** first investigation on which identifiers to choose: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2017-September/thread.html#11109
** need for Open Library identifiers: [[:d:Wikidata_talk:Primary_sources_tool/Archive/2017#Open_Library_identifiers]]
** request of other identifiers addition: [[:d:Wikidata_talk:Primary_sources_tool#ID_gathering]]
** call for support: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2017-September/011186.html
** project chat: [[:d:Wikidata:Project_chat#Soweego:_wide-coverage_linking_of_external_identifiers..09Call_for_support]]
* WikiCite: https://groups.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/d/msg/wikicite-discuss/MzYxg8S6oIM/QIZT5ov0BwAJ
* Wiki Research: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiki-research-l/2017-September/006046.html
* Wikimedia: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-September/088672.html
* Open Glam: https://lists.okfn.org/pipermail/open-glam/2017-September/001714.html

===Endorsements===
Do you think this project should be selected for a Project Grant? Please add your name and rationale for ''endorsing'' this project below! (Other constructive feedback is welcome on the discussion page).

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<center>'''This section is for endorsements only. Please post your structured feedback on the [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego | discussion page]]'''. Thanks!</center>
<center>See the [[Grants:Project/Apply | guidelines]], ''"Next Steps"'' section, point 2: ''"The Wikimedia community is invited to endorse proposals '''or discuss''' any concerns they have on '''proposal talk pages'''."''</center>
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{{s}} - This will bring great value, both for Wikidatians and external reusers of data. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 08:22, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} - Good use case for the Primary Sources Tool. Endorsement. [[User:Tomayac|Tomayac]] ([[User talk:Tomayac|talk]]) 12:42, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

{{Strong oppose}} - This would increasingly turn WikiData into a creepy surveillance tool like [[w:Maltego|Maltego]]. That alone should be grounds for rejection. Moreover, VIAF & similar identifiers relate directly to professional output, are clearly aligned with the WMF's mission, and are professionally or peer-curated, so the justification for using them in WikiData is clear. Twitter, Facebook, and other commercial social networks do not and are not, so the justification for using them in WikiData is exceedingly weak. [[User:Zazpot|Zazpot]] ([[User talk:Zazpot|talk]]) 09:25, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
:I will consider changing my opposition to support if the following changes to the proposal are made and kept:
:* Explicitly state that the project, even if extended, will only ever ingest material from, or create links from Wikimedia-run projects directly to, datasets that are peer-reviewed (e.g. MusicBrainz) or published by accredited academic bodies (e.g. VIAF), and that describe professional output.
:* Explicitly state that the project, even if extended, will never ingest material from, or create links from Wikimedia-run projects directly to, social networks, commercial or otherwise.
:* Remove all other mentions of social networks, both by name (e.g. "Twitter") and by phrase ("social network(s)" or "social media").
:* Create a new section in your proposal explicitly stating that de-anonymisation (aka "doxxing") can cause great harm to its victims, is often unlawful, and that project participants will cease and revert any part of the project that is found to facilitate it, even if this occurs during a future extension of the project. Note in that section that the project's participants are aware of and respect people's legal and moral [[w:right to privacy|right to privacy]].
:If those changes are made, please [[w:WP:PING|WP:PING]] me, and I will review them and reconsider my opposition. [[User:Zazpot|Zazpot]] ([[User talk:Zazpot|talk]]) 11:15, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
::I don't think that the proposal is talking about importing data from VIAF, MusicBrainz, Twitter or Facebook but merely to add links or identifiers. With respect to the topic of privacy, there is a [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#Privacy_issues_with_personal_information|discussion]] on the talk page. --[[User:CristianCantoro|CristianCantoro]] ([[User talk:CristianCantoro|talk]]) 16:28, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
:::[[User:CristianCantoro|CristianCantoro]], exactly: the proposal is to import (or, if you prefer, add) ''identifiers'' (presumably in the form of URIs or IRIs) to Wikidata. And the proposal [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants:Project/Hjfocs/soweego&oldid=17265238 as it stood before I raised my objection above] did indeed propose importing such identifiers from Twitter and Facebook. Such claims could be sensitive. For instance, as originally proposed, soweego might conceivably take a Wikidata entry for a person who is not notable (e.g. a junior scientist who has perhaps published one or two papers but has no desire to be in the public eye), identify their personal (i.e. ''not'' professional or work-related) Facebook profile via SocialLink with high confidence, and automatically add a claim to Wikidata that that Facebook profile belongs to that scientist. This automated, ''public'' linking together of a person's professional and private lives, without their informed consent, would be highly unethical. The fact that it would (according to the proposal) facilitate deeper mining of that person's data, such as date of birth, profile picture, etc (again, without that person's informed consent) is an example of precisely the Maltego-like doxxing or privacy violation issues I am concerned about. [[User:Zazpot|Zazpot]] ([[User talk:Zazpot|talk]]) 20:19, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
::Linking to Twitter and Facebook was removed from the proposal before the submission deadline as we believe further discussion with the community is needed, see [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#IMPORTANT:_revision_of_target_databases explanation] in the proposal talk page where we also address the four requests above --[[User:Fracorco|Fracorco]] ([[User talk:Fracorco|talk]]) 15:34, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
::::[[User:Fracorco|Fracorco]], I'm glad to see you [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#IMPORTANT:_revision_of_target_databases|explicitly discussing de-anonymization risks]], which are indeed important to avoid. However, I am not certain you recognize a slightly different concern. This concern, which I illustrated above, relates to the act of claiming connections between people's ''onymous'' personal and professional lives, or between any previously unconnected aspects of a person's private life. No such claim should earnestly be made in public unless either the subject's informed consent has been provably obtained, or the claimant can demonstrate an overwhelming public interest for making the claim ''in each case''. Making such claims in public is not the same thing as de-anonymization, but could still be a form of [[w:doxxing|doxxing]].
::::It is important to understand that many people who have online profiles are not aware of the ways in which these profiles risk their personal data being aggregated or mined. In some cases, people might not even have published that information intentionally (e.g. they might have thought that they were creating a private profile, or their children might have created the profile for them without their knowledge, or whatever). This is one of the reasons why it is unethical to assume informed consent ''even if the information is publicly accessible''.
::::Also, there is a risk that Soweego (or the humans vetting its suggestions via the PST) will make mistakes, and claim untrue things about people. Besides the chance that such a claim might conceivably constitute [[w:defamation|defamation]], there is a real possibility that it will flow into other databases created as derivative works of Wikidata. Because Wikidata is CC0-licensed, such claims in derivative databases would not necessarily have their sources declared, and could end up in all sorts of places (search engine results? unscrupulous employer screening databases?) that could cause the subject much irritation for years. Correcting a false claim in every derivative database might prove impossible for the victims. (For comparison, when credit agencies like [[w:Equifax|Equifax]] accidentally add false claims to a person's record, it can take [https://web.archive.org/web/20170913172100/http://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-reports/ substantial effort] for the victim to confirm and, finally, to correct these claims. And that is just ''one'' database.)
::::I am aware, and am relieved, that the proposal was edited such that the third item on my list above has been satisfied. If the remaining three items also come to be satisfied, I will gladly reconsider my strong opposition. [[User:Zazpot|Zazpot]] ([[User talk:Zazpot|talk]]) 20:21, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Zazpot|@Zazpot]], please see my [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants_talk%3AProject%2FHjfocs%2Fsoweego&type=revision&diff=17268116&oldid=17264739 answer] to you in the discussion page. --[[User:CristianCantoro|CristianCantoro]] ([[User talk:CristianCantoro|talk]]) 11:04, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
: From what I seen Wikidata is not filled with Facebook and Twitter accounts. [[User:D1gggg|D1gggg]] ([[User talk:D1gggg|talk]]) 00:20, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
{{s}} Wikidata and identifiers are a match made in even, they are harmless when not useful and very helpful when they indeed are. [[User:Aubrey|Aubrey]] ([[User talk:Aubrey|talk]]) 14:18, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} Very interesting ed usefull project --Susanna Giaccai 14:21, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

{{neutral}} I am a bit torn on this subject. I am a big fan of adding identifiers to Wikidata, and I do it all the time by transferring identifiers from Commons or using excellent existing tools (AuthorityControl java script) to search VIAF. Any bot that does it automatically would be great but I am not convinced that it can be done automatically. For VIAF that is all they do why build a new tool when often once you find VIAF page it already has a link to Wikidata. I would propose not to invest in very complicated matching algorithms but focus on easy matches (match names and dates of birth and death) and run the bot to constantly link wikidata to VIAF, RKD (Rijksbureau voor Kunsthistorische Documentatie), Benezit and other identifiers to content-rich databases and than parse data from those databases and upload it to Wikidata with proper references or add references of data is already there. We should also improve existing tools for manual wikidata editing it should be easier to search VIAF, RKD, Benezit, Musicbrains and all the other databases for a match and than ask human to approve or reject them. It would be also great if we could add references to existing statements by somehow saying I got it from this or that identifier. Finally I am sorry to say but I did not found [[d:Wikidata:Primary sources tool]] usable at this stage, the tool as far as I can tell does not work, and I tried it for a while. As A result I do not have high confidence that extensions to that tool will work either. I would not support extension of the tool until current version actually work. You can measure success by tracking how many edits were done with the help of the tool. [[User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] ([[User talk:Jarekt|talk]]) 02:32, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} per Aubrey above. --[[User:CristianCantoro|CristianCantoro]] ([[User talk:CristianCantoro|talk]]) 10:56, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} I'd like to support this project from the Wikidata dev team's side. I think this will be useful for Wikidata for two reasons:
# Having more identifiers in Wikidata makes Wikidata significantly more useful. It allows finding items in Wikidata by their identifiers for more catalogs. It also interlinks us with more sources on the linked open data web. This makes it easy to find additional data about a topic without the need to have all of this data in Wikidata itself.
# We are exploring checking Wikidata's data against other databases in order to find mismatches that point to issues in the data. Having more connections via identifiers is a precondition for that.
--[[User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)]] ([[User talk:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|talk]]) 11:19, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} As user of Wikidata, involved in Identifiers (WLM ID), I strongly support projects like this. --[[User:CristianNX|CristianNX]] ([[User talk:CristianNX|talk]])

{{s}} This proposal aims to make our haphazard efforts in this area more methodical, and off-load as much work as possible to machines, without compromising quality. I have tools to handle small and medium-size third-party datasets, but the "big ones" need alternative approaches. --[[User:Magnus Manske|Magnus Manske]] ([[User talk:Magnus Manske|talk]])

{{weak support}} I echo some of the concerns expressed above concerning privacy and ability to do many of these things automatically. On the privacy end, perhaps the automated work should focus on those who are verifiably deceased, and try to avoid living people. From my experience in manually matching thousands of records between wikidata and external databases, there ''are no good heuristics'' that work consistently. Name closeness is highly dependent on what the names are and the language/culture (some portions of names are very common, some short strings in names are almost unique, some names have alternate spellings that mean the same, but sometimes a single letter different means something completely different). Pretty much the same issues with geographic cues. Even when items are linked by identifiers, sometimes the match doesn't make sense - people often link their identifiers to wikipedia pages that may be about related but not quite exactly the same things... All that said, a lot can be done with automatic tools when you really are sure things are working correctly, and the general approach here seems sensible. So I do support funding this project, but I feel we made need to be careful and not over-promise about what it will actually accomplish. [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 14:12, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} --[[User:Hadi|Hadi]]

{{s}} [[User:Gamaliel|Gamaliel]] ([[User talk:Gamaliel|talk]]) 03:16, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

{{oppose}}
Authority coreferencing is extremely important to me (see [[Wikidata:WikiProject_Authority_control]]: notified that project so people can comment here). Regretfully, I think this proposal has many flaws, see detailed discussion at [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#Proposal_shortcomings]] --[[User:Vladimir Alexiev|Vladimir Alexiev]] ([[User talk:Vladimir Alexiev|talk]]) 09:34, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} --[[User:Nonoranonqui|Chiara]] The project allows to include references - maybe not verified -, doesn't include in other national or international authority tools, but very useful to identify people. The only thing that matters is to declare that are references not verified!

{{wait}}: as outlined [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#Slightly_premature.3F|in my comments on the talk page]] I think this proposal is a bit premature. But I would likely support the proposal if submitted for the next round (at this point the Primary Sources Tool should be fully functional). − [[User:Pintoch|Pintoch]] ([[User talk:Pintoch|talk]]) 09:19, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

{{wait}}: Tools for creating mappings between Wikidata and authorities/knowledge organization systems are very relevant for my work. However, I think various issues raised here and on the talk page (particularly how privcacy concerns can be addressed in the proposed workflows, and the [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#Proposal_shortcomings|shortcomings of the proposal in its current state]] as noted by [[User:Vladimir_Alexiev|Vladimir Alexiev]]) should be considered and integrated into a reworked version of the proposal. [[User:Jneubert|Jneubert]] ([[User talk:Jneubert|talk]]) 11:03, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} As per Lydia Pintscher above. I also want to vouch, for what's worth, for the grantee: he already did a good work with his [[Grants:IEG/StrepHit: Wikidata Statements Validation via References|StreptHit project]], and I'm certain he'll continue to provide us with useful tools to get a better Wikidata going. [[User:Sannita|Sannita]] - ''[[User talk:Sannita|not just another it.wiki sysop]]'' 13:30, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} The output of this project would be very useful indeed for a plethora of initiatives- [[User:Essepuntato|Essepuntato]] ([[User talk:Essepuntato|talk]]) 16:45, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} It's a very important initiative that definitely needs to move forward in order to improving Wikidata as a central knowledge hub. But I share the concern raised by [[User:Pintoch|Pintoch]], we need to have Primary Sources working well to make this proposal fully functional. [[User:Tpt|Tpt]] ([[User talk:Tpt|talk]]) 15:42, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} Clearly the data items need to have these links to other authorities in order to reduce ambiguity, and to allow for the validation of other claims. As we are, I can see that many of the claims I am making by hand, could be easily done and verified by automated means. Given the large scale of wikidata, teh more work done automatically the better. Leaving only the problematic claims to be done by humans. I think Hjfocs is very well suited to this type of work. [[User:Danrok|Danrok]] ([[User talk:Danrok|talk]]) 18:19, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} The overall strategy appears sound to improve the rate of identifier linking and vetting of match quality. I strongly support this project. The linked Identifier creates a network effect of value growth for WikiData and since human vetting still takes place on the questionable match quality matches this appears to create a valuable foundation for the growth of linked data and semantic work. [[User:Wolfgang8741|Wolfgang8741]] ([[User talk:Wolfgang8741|talk]]) 23:41, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} identifier linking tools are alwasy very useful! I hope it will be accessible to people not familiar with Wikidata. [[User:Nattes à chat|Nattes à chat]]

{{s}} Useful. [[User:Moheen Reeyad|~ Moheen]] [[User Talk:Moheen Reeyad|(keep talking)]] 18:07, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} - This will be good, nice tools will be good. --[[User:Frettie|Frettie]] ([[User talk:Frettie|talk]]) 06:46, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} [[User:Csyogi|Csyogi]] ([[User talk:Csyogi|talk]]) 14:42, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

[[Category:Wikidata]]
*Something like this needed for maintenance of the data. [[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil Shah]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 05:59, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
*This can save a lot of manual work, that is also possible to do with a bot-account. I support this project! [[User:QZanden|QZanden]] ([[User talk:QZanden|talk]]) 22:43, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} Positive. [[User:Yeza|Yeza]] ([[User talk:Yeza|talk]]) 04:36, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} It seems to me that it can be a really useful project. [[Utente:Uomovariabile|'''Uomovariabile''']] ([[User talk:Uomovariabile|talk to me]]) 06:58, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} very good tool to improve data quality with reliable references [[User:Projekt ANA|Projekt ANA]] ([[User talk:Projekt ANA|talk]]) 19:33, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
*per Magnus Manske. [[User:Quiddity|Quiddity]] ([[User talk:Quiddity|talk]]) 20:10, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
*Because of more linkin items. [[User:Crazy1880|Crazy1880]] ([[User talk:Crazy1880|talk]]) 15:28, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
*{{s}}Per Lydia: "''Having more identifiers in Wikidata makes Wikidata significantly more useful''". [[User:Yiyi|Yiyi]] ([[User talk:Yiyi|talk]]) 22:30, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
*a useful tool no doubt [[User:Oluwa2Chainz|Oluwa2Chainz]] ([[User talk:Oluwa2Chainz|talk]]) 16:52, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} I think it is very useful to develop further interlinking algorithms for Wikidata, and the fact the Magnus Manske pointed out that new solutions are needed for big data sets suggests that this project can fill in a gap.
* I also think that the proposed consistency checking step is interesting.
* I would like to see a solution that not only focuses on aligning people, but rather any type of Wikidata item, but I can understand that it is easier to focus on one type first.
* I think it would also be convenient to integrate existing solutions tighter -- if these algorithms require human validation, it might make sense to request such human input via Mix'n'Match, as much as possible. My point is that, it might be good to centralise some use cases in already successful tools. [[User:Criscod|Criscod]] ([[User talk:Criscod|talk]]) 08:24, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
{{s}} Hopefully we would get ways to get reasonable coverage quickly. Control over "frequency of mistakes" would be useful, but probably difficult to implement. Other projects have more specific goals, different from this project. [[User:D1gggg|D1gggg]] ([[User talk:D1gggg|talk]]) 00:16, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

{{s}} Seems like a useful project that could increase the amount of referenced entities. [[User:Mikeshowalter|Mikeshowalter]] ([[User talk:Mikeshowalter|talk]]) 22:19, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

{{wait}}, need to resolve privacy issues as mentioned by Zazpot. If it is only use to check and merge wikidata doubles, that's OK. Need to resolve issues from here: [[Grants_talk:Project/Hjfocs/soweego#Privacy issues with personal information]] first [[User:Popolon|Popolon]] ([[User talk:Popolon|talk]]) 12:47, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
*Great project, it will be a great tool to Wikidata. [[User:Escudero|Escudero]] ([[User talk:Escudero|talk]]) 18:15, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
* {{support}} We need such good tools for Wikidata. [[User:Conny|Conny]] ([[User talk:Conny|talk]]) 20:34, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
*{{s}} Tools like this are really vital to make Wikidata a good resource, and existing tools actually do what they set out to do well. I actually think it's pretty worthwhile to link social media sites for certain people--public figures, entertainers--but I can see how this tool isn't the best way to do this and it's good this is going to be very focused on identifiers, since adding them is a necessary step to improve Wikidata and needs a new approach. —[[User:Innotata|''innotata'']] 23:59, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
*I support this proposal. However, the time and budget plan seem very ambitious. Thus I would recommend applying for external funding also. [[Special:Contributions/89.204.135.140|89.204.135.140]] 06:59, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
*{{support}} I think efforts to link Wikidata to existing semantic datasets are very valuable. --[[User:A3nm|A3nm]] ([[User talk:A3nm|talk]]) 09:05, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
*{{support}} Seems like a good idea. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 06:46, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
[[Category:Project Grant funded in FY 2017-2018]]
*{{support}} This would be a critical addition to the mission and work of Wikidata! Great work so far! [[User:Todrobbins|Todrobbins]] ([[User talk:Todrobbins|talk]]) 16:47, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Simple English Wikipedia (3)

2018-06-21T16:03:53Z

LeadSongDog: /* Survey */ rename?

{{Closing project proposal|type = 2|content =English Wikipedia|notice=[[:simple:Talk:Main Page#This project is not reaching a target audience. Propose closure and integration with En Wiki]].}}
{{notice|'''Please keep in mind that all project closure discussions are advisory. The [[:m:Language committee|Language Committee]] and [[Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees|WMF Board]] make all final decisions on project closures.''' For LangCom: [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 19:56, 20 June 2018 (UTC)}}

__TOC__
==Proposal==
I will try to keep it simple, and the most simple TL;DR thing to say is - the king is naked and SEW is effectively useless. It was, certainly, a good intention (a project whose target audience are "people with different needs, such as students, children, adults with learning difficulties, and people who are trying to learn English".), but queue in the proverb about good intentions. More than 10 years on, there is no proof that the project is reaching its target audience; on the contrary, it is doubtful it is used by anyone - it's a curio visited by its small group of volunteers and occasionally some random person stumbles upon it, looks around bewildered, and heads back to the much more comprehensive English Wikipedia. I have been teaching students at university in English in South Korea, and not once have I found a student (or a single regular person in Korea or Poland, outside Wikipedia volunteers) who knows of this project. SEW does not show up in Google (or other) search engines, and remains a curiosity, known to some people in the Wikipedia movement - but, again, not to its intended audience.

Now, closure doesn't mean the end of the idea of helping special audiences. We can do it better - in the place which is known to those audiences, i.e. English Wikipedia itself. The best solution would be to integrate it into English Wikipedia through a new tab or prominent button. Nobody clicks on the SEW interlanguage link, and hence very few people, including SEW target audience of ESLs and other special audiences, is aware of it and benefits from the effort of SEW volunteers. So instead of the intuitive 'object, don't close my beloved project', please consider a conditional support 'close if En Wiki gets a new feature to showcase SE content'). INHO this would be the ideal outcome, and then this closure proposal, while put on hold, could be brought to WMF and En Wiki community to discuss how to implement such a feature.

Few other points.

How do you know almost nobody is using this project? Impact comparison: page views for Donald Trump on SE: 187 a day ([https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=simple.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&pages=Donald_Trump]), vs EN Wiki: 50,963
[https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&pages=Donald_Trump], so that's a ratio of 1:1000, roughly. If the project was used by ESLs, who outnumber native speakers by ~10x or so, those numbers would be widely different. But they are not.

Another dimension: SEW school projects list on average one educational project a year: [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Schools/Projects]. En wiki gets dozens if not hundreds of such projects every year ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:School_and_university_projects] is obsolete, but see [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/explore] for a newer version - note how many of those projects are from ESLs (through not all target En wiki)). The point here, is, again, that as a platform to engage ESL students, SEW has failed. Instructors who want to use Wikipedia in education will do so on normal Wikipedia, not on the obscure and unknown SEW.

But what about the claim from English Wikipedia that "Material from the Simple English Wikipedia forms the basis for One Encyclopedia per Child,[ a One Laptop per Child project"?
[[:en:One Laptop per Child]] is a nice imitative, but I have not been able to find any studies or data suggesting its use of SEW is significant. They have been using SEW content for 10+ years - without so much as a single academic study suggesting or confirming it is a good idea. Without scholarly analysis, we cannot say that SEW has educational benefits, one could just as well argue that it gives readers a dumbed down, poorly referenced/written version of content they need. If SEW was really useful, it would be more popular.

An overview of scholarly literature on SEW, again, does not show any indication that the project is useful to its target audience, the few academic papers that discuss it do so generally from the computer science/linguistics perspective, using its simplified word data set for some lingustica/cs analysis like: [https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2002865]. This suggests that the only real world group that finds some moderate use of this projects are a few lingustic/computer science scholars who have a new dataset to play with. While as a scholar myself I appreciate new data sets, I don't think a project whose only effective use is allowing few scholar to publish some obscure research is what we should be supporting.

What do we lose by allowing SEW to exist? There are few dozens if not hundreds volunteers involved in this project, creating content of very little, if any, impact. Their work should would be much more beneficial (to the entire world, including the SEW target audiences of ESLs and others, who - again - generally are not aware of SEW existence, and use En Wiki anyway) if it was incorporated with en Wiki. Some of those volunteers are clearly confused; just a few days ago I copied content from SEW about [[:en:Lee Sang-Bong]], an article that should've been created on en wiki, and that does not seem particularly 'simply written' to me. In addition to misdercting few hundred of volunteers into creating content of little impact, maintaining its infrastructure/views does consume some (if small) portion of WMF budget. Those donations are a limited resource, and even if this project effectively costs [insert random small sum here], this money could be spend on something that is actually useful to a wider group (ex. readers of English Wikipedia, which, yes, I am repeating myself, include majority of SEW target's audience).

It is also worth nothing that SEP suffers from spam. I run [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3Flinkcount%0Awith%20%7B%20%0A%20%20select%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3Fsitelink%20WHERE%0A%7B%0A%09%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ5%20.%0A%09%3Fsitelink%20schema%3Aabout%20%3Fitem%20.%0A%09%3Fsitelink%20schema%3AisPartOf%20%3Chttps%3A%2F%2Fsimple.wikipedia.org%2F%3E%20.%0A%20%20%20%7D%20%20%20%20%20%20%0A%7D%20as%20%25s%0Awhere%20%7B%0A%20include%20%25s%0A%20FILTER%20NOT%20EXISTS%20%7B%20%3Fwfr%20schema%3Aabout%20%3Fitem%20.%20%3Fwfr%20schema%3AinLanguage%20%22en%22.%20%7D%0A%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Fitem%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3FitemLabel.%20filter%28lang%28%3FitemLabel%29%3D%22en%22%29%7D%0A%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Fitem%20wikibase%3Asitelinks%20%3Flinkcount%20.%7D%20%0A%7D%0AORDER%20BY%20DESC%28%3Flinkcount%29 a query on Wikidata] for articles missing from En wiki that are on simple, and indicative - the first three hits were two deleted articles ([[:en:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amir Talai]], [[:en:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Maggard (3rd nomination)]]) and one that was a redirect ([[:en:Brenda Ann Spencer]]).

Bottom line, SEW volunteers may think they are helping ESLs or people with special needs, but they are not, because those people don't know about SEW. They are, therefore, sadly enough, effectively wasting their time. Once the project is merged to En Wiki and closed, they can continue their efforts to improve content of interest to those people, simplify jargon per MoS, or such, on En Wiki.

One final note. I intend no disrespect to the volunteers who created and maintain SEW. Their heart is in the right place, but I do believe that their efforts are misguided and end up creating a trivial site, not something that is useful to the people they intend to help. There is some value in simple explanations of articles, but if you consider [https://lifehacker.com/5935776/simple-english-wikipedia-makes-complex-subjects-easily-understandable] or [https://www.pcmag.com/article/351839/the-best-tools-to-improve-your-wikipedia-experience], note that they suggest that SEW is/should be a feature of English Wikipedia. To some degree, this is a feature issue, SEW simplified versions of articles would be much more useful if they could be accessed from some prominent button on English Wikipedia (nobody looks at the language links to find SEW link...). If SEW volunteers care about having an impact and getting their efforts to the target audiences, they should support this proposal, perhaps conditionally on En Wiki adding a new, prominent feature, something like 'read a Simple English version of this article'. The effective way of bringing SE content to the wider world has to be done through the site that the world uses (i.e. English Wiki). Ending on that hopefully more constructive thought, [[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 08:42, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

==Survey==
*{{s}} closing it. Simple is more effort than it is worth to maintain. I support maintaining it while we have it, but what it basically is now is a playground for vandals, spambots, LTAs, and people who have been blocked from various other WMF wikis to try to prove that they should be unblocked on their home wiki. It takes up more volunteer time than it provides value. For what it’s worth, en.wikinews is probably a better candidate for closing first, but simple still shouldn’t exist. Also, to the comments above about would we shut down other small language Wikis, well, that's the thing: Simple English isn't a language group. We already have a Wikipedia for English. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 17:17, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong Oppose''' It's viewed by over a half million people daily, has over 130,000 articles, and provides useful content for many. I see no reason to close it, and the vandal/LTA issue is managed without issue. There are vandals on all Wikipedias; it's no reason to warrant closing an entire project. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 17:49, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**It is when it causes disruption to the entire movement. Simple is a breeding ground for the worst parts of the internet. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 17:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Saying that it's a "breeding ground for the worst parts of the internet" is exaggerating the issue exponentially. It is not causing enough disruption to warrant closing the project. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 17:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Also keep in mind that although some LTA's may use it to vandalize people's talk pages and harass them, if this project is closed because of it the main effect will be the exact opposite of WP:DENY, as it'll give the LTA's a sense of victory, and all they'll do is move to another wiki. Just yesterday, I blocked an account on simple.wikipedia and they began harassing me by editing my commons and cy.wiki talk pages. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:43, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::'''comment''' view count in this context is pretty meaningless and should be taken with a grain of salt. Look at the spambot filters for any given project. [[User:Chrissymad|Chrissymad]] ([[User talk:Chrissymad|talk]]) 17:52, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Strong oppose''' — community is active, wiki can be useful for English starters. '''[[User:Marshmallych|M]]''' ''[[User talk:Marshmallych|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/Marshmallych|c]]'' 17:57, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}}. Very much for the reasons provided. I appreciate that editors have invested a lot of time building it, but in my opinion it has been time wasted. [[User:ToastButterToast|ToastButterToast]] ([[User talk:ToastButterToast|talk]]) 17:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Could I ask why this time is wasted? There are dozens of of other Wikipedias with a lot of volunteer time spent on it and mostly all of them have less of an audience than the SEW. Are you suggesting that closing down the Simple English Wikipedia, which will free up about 20 editors, is worth it? [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:02, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}} closing it. I've dabbled in Simple here and there and I've found it's highly inconsistent. What language is "simple" versus language that's, I don't know, overly complex? The spirit behind the idea was wonderful, but what's there is really just a mishmash of articles that aren't as well-written, detailed, or comprehensive as their enwiki counterparts, ''as an inherent limitation imposed by simplicity''. Eventually, when constructing an article in "simple" English, you reach a point where you either sacrifice complex details due to the limited vocabulary, or sacrifice simplicity in the interest of content. Compare for example [[:simple:Mourning dove]] (a "very good article") with [[:en:Mourning dove]] (also a featured article) - the two are practically indistinguishable, except that some of the language has been simplified in simplewiki, but not to the point that you'd expect a reader in Simple's target audience would not still have difficulty understanding the material. And once you get to that point, why not just direct that development to enwiki?
:On the other hand, the effort of creating a wiki that's easy to use on the project side is magnificent, and I do hope that at least some of the simplified terminology makes its way into enwiki. All of the pages linked from [[simple:Wikipedia:Rules]] are fantastic. [[User:Ivanvector|Ivanvector]] ([[User talk:Ivanvector|talk]]) 18:00, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::The article [[:simple:Mourning dove]] is in Simple English. Put the pages side-by-side, and you'll notice the distinct difference in phrasing and linking. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' closing. To put it mildly, simple.wiki is a joke. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 18:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - This isn't a zero-sum game in terms of resources. There is an active community of volunteers maintaining simplewp, and there are very little WMF or global community resources that need to be expended on maintaining it. It's true that simple English isn't a language, but I'm not concerned about that since the project has a dedicated community and reader base. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 18:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**But its not being maintained... That's the problem. It basically exists for LTAs to create accounts and harass people and a place for people who have been blocked in their home wikis to go and be toxic in hopes of getting unblocked later. None of that is good for the movement. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:20, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
***Closing the project won't resolve the problem - LTAs would just go to other wikis to create accounts and do the harassment, etc. This is not specific to simplewiki. Whether or not it's maintained, there are several sysops in the project and they should have an idea about this. -★- [[User:PlyrStar93|'''PlyrStar93''']] →[[User_talk:PlyrStar93|Message me. ]]← 18:36, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
****Yes; simple does a relatively good job compared with some other projects (*cough* enwikiversity *cough*) when dealing with the enwiki-banned crowd. Deleting simple won't remove that problem. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 19:00, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - While it is a niche project, it has it's place, especially for articles on the technical side. [[User:Tazerdadog|Tazerdadog]] ([[User talk:Tazerdadog|talk]]) 18:22, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}}, sadly. There are too many examples where it has been used to push a POV rejected here, with no real notice or oversight. [[User:JzG|JzG]] ([[User talk:JzG|talk]]) 18:41, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*:Could you provide an example, please? - If there are many, finding one shouldn't be difficult...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 18:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}}--[[User:Ozzie10aaaa|Ozzie10aaaa]] ([[User talk:Ozzie10aaaa|talk]]) 18:45, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' closure of an active project. It’s well-used and the apparent issues about LTA doesn’t mean it needs closing. [[User:Aiken drum|Aiken drum]] ([[User talk:Aiken drum|talk]]) 18:53, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Without firmly dissucssed RFC on proposed merger. Closing the project to me would also send the wrong message to potential ESOL contributors. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 18:55, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''': per Vermont and Ajraddatz, this would be the closure of an active project that receives enough traffic to sustain itself. I fail to see a purpose behind that. [[User:Javert2113|Javert2113]] ([[User talk:Javert2113|talk]]) 18:58, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' If it isn’t getting through to it’s target audience then the solution is to ask the WMF for help in raising its progfile, not to shut it down. If there is a serious problem with trolls and LTA wingnuts to the extent that the local admin corps can’t handle it, the project should consider using flagged revisions as a solution. [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]] ([[User talk:Beeblebrox|talk]]) 19:02, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Weak oppose''' I think the points made by Piotrus are very good, as same with Ivanvector, but I think, all in all, SEW still has its place, and a legitimate one for sure. It could do with some TLC, but not closing. [[User:My name is not dave|My name is not dave]] ([[User talk:My name is not dave|talk]]) 19:17, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The SEW could use a lot of work, but it's not a net negative. I don't think closing it is necessary at this point. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 19:31, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' if it needs improvement, let's suggest how to improve it. This reminds me of an AFD where the principle vote to delete is "I don't like it". With 500,000 hits a day, it's far from dead (unlike, say, Wikinews). And like AFD, we can simply work on improving it rather than consigning it to the annals of history. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 19:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support merge''' – The key quality of Simple English wp is to offer an easily-accessible summary of each topic, rather than the comprehensive, and sometimes dense, en-wiki articles. Compare this to the lede section of an enwiki article, which when well-written should effectively convey the essentials about the subject matter. A reader can skim Wikipedia and get a fairly basic understanding of anything by just reading the lede sections. In that spirit, I would very much support the OP's suggestion of a new tab in enwiki that would show the "simple" version of the article. This could be edited together with the main article, provided some technical markup mechanism is devised (a few templates and scripts could probably do the job without changing mediawiki code). This would elegantly resolve all issues:
:# More visibility for the simple-English versions of articles;
:# Harnessing volunteer work by Simple English editors;
:# Incentivizing the general population of English-language editors to keep simple-English versions up to date;
:# Easier policing thanks to advanced anti-vandalism tools and legion of admins working on enwp.
:In summary, a merge looks beneficial to everybody. [[User:JFG|JFG]] ([[User talk:JFG|talk]]) 19:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:*'''Strongly oppose merge''' - The quality of the articles on simple.wiki is such that any merge with en.wiki would be detrimental to the reputation and integrity of en.wiki. There is simply not the time or the manpower available to take on the task of bringing simple.wiki up to the standards expected at en.wiki. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 00:14, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}} closing. Idea is fine, but execution problematic (as usual). —[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] [[User_Talk:Beetstra|T]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|C]] (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 19:50, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
** [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/I_love_socking]. —[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] [[User_Talk:Beetstra|T]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|C]] (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 20:28, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Blocked. Thanks for reporting it. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 20:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - The project fills an important niche. If it suffers from lack of visibility, per [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]], deletion is not the solution. As with '''any''' wiki, there are problems, some unique to the project. However, closing the project would be tantamount to shooting the horse over a thrown shoe. You can supplement whatever anecdote your feel most comfortable with. The wisdom still applies. Lets address and improve or correct the problems. This, of course, will require those saying there are problems to specifically identify the problems they refer to. [[User:Operator873|Operator873]] ([[User talk:Operator873|talk]]) 19:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose-ish''' — I like having a simple version of articles available for when I don't understand the normal one. I don't normally read it, but when I have needed it it has been helpful to me. Changing it to a tab of EnWP could work (since I'm just a reader, not an editor there, I don't really care one way or the other regarding where the content is, as long as I can read it when I want it). [[User:Goldenshimmer|Goldenshimmer]] ([[User talk:Goldenshimmer|talk]]) 20:07, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support closure''' No obvious supporting evidence of significant historical development, no likelihood of future development, project is a liability of lower quality information due to lack of critical mass of participants and engagement, failure to establish consensus for what "Simple English" manual of style the project will use among various competing off-wiki standards, highly defensive community culture which keeps the project inaccessible for editors as a way to protect the project (for example, no WikiProjects or community meeting spaces allowed), high likelihood of dissatisfaction among participants, low recruitment rate of new regular editors, no plan for change in the foreseeable future. We do have prospect of reform for a next generation project and that is the use of Wikidata to automatically translate structured data basics into simple Wikipedias of all languages. I would advise anyone who wants to advance the future of plain language Wikimedia projects to engage with Wikidata as the most stable, highest impact use of time and labor. Wikidata has a high satisfaction rate among participants. The Reasonator Wikidata / Wikipedia prototype is very encouraging as a Simple English Wikipedia replacement. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 20:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::To address your arguments: A lack of many editors is not a reason to close a Wikipedia. There are not multiple competing off-wiki standards as to the quality of content, as you imply. Your assertion that WikiProjects and community meeting spaces are not allowed is simply false. Although WikiProjects are very rarely in project namespace, there are many in userspace, and we also have [[:simple:WP:ST]] for community discussions. I don't see what you mean by "high likelihood of dissatisfaction among participants." You don't have much of an editing history there, so have you conducted a poll or some other sort of means by which to find that information? Regarding a plan for change in the forseeable future, the viewership of the SEW has continually been increasing over the years (significant historical development), we have recently been gaining more active editors, and although we aren't planning any drastic changes, there are none required. The usual policy/guideline discussions happen, and your description implies that the Simple English Wikipedia is a small, inactive wiki with a few sad editors. The rest of your comment seems like an advertisement for machine translation, and that's a whole 'nother discussion. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:36, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Vermont}} This is not the place or an appropriate channel to go through all of this but I stand by what I said. If you want to talk then we can video or voice chat and take notes or record.
:::Most of my conversation has been off-simple in the context of other projects, including [[:en:Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Translation_task_force]], [[Internet-in-a-Box]], [[Wikipedia:Education program]] and various discussions about writing styles. All of these projects need plain English content but Simple English Wikipedia is unable to meet any of the needs of these programs. Yes, I have had 1:1 conversations with at least 100 people about plain language solutions for Wikimedia projects, and yes, I know that Simple English Wikipedia is not meeting the needs of users in this space.
:::About WikiProjects - can you [[:en:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject|resolve this issue]] for me and let people make WikiProjects or community project pages? Every other Wikimedia project allows community project pages. Simple English Wikipedia prohibits community organizing. This is so strange! Simple English Wikipedia turns away so many potential collaborations! Why do you turn people away? Can you flip the switch and allow community projects?
:::The community of people developing Simple English Wikipedia content is greater and more active off-Simple English Wikipedia than on Simple English Wikipedia. Yes, there could be a debate about whether structured data is the future, but there can be no debate about the number of people and amount of resources advancing that idea versus human-written Simple Wikipedia text. Much, much more attention and effort to produce a Simple English Wikipedia is going in directions other than to Simple English Wikipedia as it exists now. I know lots of people who have had conflicts with Simple English Wikipedia, but I am not aware of anyone from Simple English Wikipedia bringing value to any plain language project elsewhere. Please get anyone from Simple English Wikipedia to help these other projects or be more inviting of collaboration.
:::Yes, there are multiple competing standards of manuals of style. Various university programs [http://www.healthresearchforaction.org/health-literacy-communications like this one at Berkeley] do things like plain language translations, develop standardized vocabularies for technical jargon, present limited vocabulary lists, and offer algorithms for readability metrics. There is not a standard in Simple English Wikipedia. Someone could use one plain language manual of style and it be very simple, and another person could use another and it be too complicated. Simple English Wikipedia does not host conversations to resolve this. I would not mind a debate but it is not asking too much to set some minimal expectations of what is and is not appropriate. It really hurts to submit something and get rejected due to an individual asserting a personal preference when Simple English Wikipedia has no manual of style. Matching with a single academic definition of "Simple English" could resolve this, but instead, anything goes and there is too much arbitrary rejection.
:::Simple English Wikipedia is a liability with serious problems. If it is not closed it needs serious urgent reform and strong leadership. The WMF has money. If anyone in Simple can get organized or get an institutional partner they should apply for a US$100k grant ASAP because the volunteer only unfunded administration is not working. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 14:20, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
::::I'm sorry, when you said "manual of style" I thought you meant [[:simple:Wikipedia:Manual of Style]]. What you apparently mean is the language, which is defined quite well at [[:simple:WP:HOW]], of which there is strong consensus over. Despite what one may think when reading your argument, people are not coming on top of eachother quoting from different plain English translations. It's pretty well-established. Now, onto the misconception of WikiProjects. We do have editors collaborating and communicating. Your claim that "Simple English Wikipedia prohibits community organizing" is blatantly false. We have [[:simple:WP:ST]], which is our version of the Village Pump, where editors can discuss topics. We ''do'' have WikiProjects, except they are located in userspace rather than project-space. Because of there only being around 30 active editors, large-scale WikiProjects in project space are unnecessary. For example, I had my own WikiProject that gathered 12 volunteers, where we did edit categorizing to help enable ORES on the Simple English Wikipedia. The goal was reached, ORES is now enabled, and the WikiProject shutdown. When I made that project, I was new (about a week at SEW) and was still highly active on en.wiki. There is no anti-change group of people deciding what happens, nor are new editors being turned away. If we did allow people to create WikiProjects directly to Wikipedia: namespace, it's not as though dozens of new editors would magically spring up. Also, you said that both "The community of people developing Simple English Wikipedia content is greater and more active off-Simple English Wikipedia than on Simple English Wikipedia" as well as "Much, much more attention and effort to produce a Simple English Wikipedia is going in directions other than to Simple English Wikipedia as it exists now. I know lots of people who have had conflicts with Simple English Wikipedia, but I am not aware of anyone from Simple English Wikipedia bringing value to any plain language project elsewhere." To me, this sounds contradictory, so I ask you to clarify this. I also ask you how you can be sure of: "I know that Simple English Wikipedia is not meeting the needs of users in this space." If this were so, would viewship not decline? It's been steadily increasing for the last few years. Also, regarding the last bit of your message, how do you think the WMF's money or a grant could help reform the SEW? I strongly support reforms, although my ideal is more of a multiple-month-long copyediting/simplification drive. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 17:21, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Lean oppose''' I feel arguments for closing could be applied to the other wikis patrolled by [[Small Wiki Monitoring Team]]. I could be convinced to support the closure if there were more argument about why the reasons for closure are unique to the simple English wikipedia. [[User:Billhpike|Billhpike]] ([[User talk:Billhpike|talk]]) 20:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**Sure: Simple English is not an actual language, and we already have a Wikipedia in English that doesn’t have any of these problems. It provides no actual value while consuming significant global resources. This is different from other small projects where they are the only Wikipedias in their language. Simple is a fine concept that doesn’t work. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 21:01, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*** How much administrative work on SEW is done by editor's who primarily contribute to another wiki? I looked at [[simple:Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser]] and it appears that most issues were handled by local check users / admins. Some of the replies were less then timely, but SEW is hardly the only wiki with a CU backlog. [[User:Billhpike|Billhpike]] ([[User talk:Billhpike|talk]]) 22:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
***How do you define ''language''? - There is a Wikipedia in Afrikans, which can also be seen a version of Dutch...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 21:42, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
****It's not supposed to be ''a language''. See [[simple:Simple_English_Wikipedia]].[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 22:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' — Just two days ago I wrote, not knowing of this proposal, that simple-English Wikipedia is neither read, edited, updated nor even serves the purpose that it intends to [[:en:Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles#Digression:_simple.wikipedia.org]]. The lack of editors and lack of community, as well as lack of interested readership causes its articles to be out of date, and in many cases of very poor quality. Neither does it adequately serve the purpose it intends to serve, with articles only marginally more readable, and oftentimes less readable than leads on en-wiki.
:''simple-wiki risks acting as an excuse to deprioritize clarity and unambiguous expression on en-wiki'', which may seem unintuitive, but is a defence I've come across far too many times. '''Closing simple-wiki could bring editors versed in writing simply back to en-wiki, and would send a clear signal that Wikipedia is for everyone''', not just those who can read at a post-graduate level.
:We need simple writing, and that is why we don't need simple-wiki. Wikipedia's articles vary, some more amenable to simple language, but all can benefit from the work of editors who can express themselves tersely. '''Even very complex topics need well written and easy to understand introductions.''' [[User:CFCF|Carl Fredrik]][[User talk:CFCF| 💌]] [[Special:EmailUser/CFCF|📧]] 22:04, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::If closed, the amount of editors it would bring to en-wiki is insignificant, if any. As you said, there is a very small editing force, and thus articles, especially in constantly updating fields like medicine, are not always up to date. But, outdatedness is not a reason to close a project; if it were, the majority of small wikis would have reason to be closed. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::While the number of editors that move may be low, it will act as a strong indication that writing simply is important — and that even editing with the sole intention to simplify difficult language on en-wiki — is not only acceptable, but highly desirable. I think you underestimate the amount of good you could do in a WikiProject Simple English. [[User:CFCF|CFCF]][[User talk:CFCF| 💌]] [[Special:EmailUser/CFCF|📧]] 22:26, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Is your idea to make a simple namespace on enwiki? If not, how would you integrate the content, if at all? Thanks, [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:37, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Seems harmless. I don't think that closing Simple would automatically mean that its contributors would take up some other Wikimedia project. Some might leave the project altogether, including some who currently work on multiple projects. I would think, perhaps, that a reasonable alternative would be to limit the ''coverage'' of the project to, say, a hundred-thousand vital topics in clearly defined areas, to avoid spamming of a less patrolled project. [[User:BD2412|''BD2412'']] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 22:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. It's #51 on the list of Wikipedias. Are we also shutting down the smaller ones? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 22:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Closure and integration are two different things. The proposal is not well-developed. We have other considerations such as the mobile view and wikidata. Integration of these linked projects might be sensible but there is not a good structure for this currently. In the current chaotic way of doing things, competition is healthy in providing alternative approaches. [[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew D.]] ([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 22:32, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per TonyBallioni and CFCF '''--'''[[User:علاء |Alaa ]] [[User_talk:علاء |:)..!]] 22:33, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support in principle.''' At the current point Simple English Wikipedia simply does not fit in the grand scheme of things: it is not a separate language, it was a good idea some years ago to have such project that would have articles that are easier to understand for people, but right now it is the only exception among more than 300 language versions that we have. Simple X projects get frequently rejected, Simple English projects (there’s also Wiktionary, btw) sits there alone in a complete limbo. Don’t think we should completely delete it or disband the active community, but the opposite, if that is applicable: narrow down its idea to something like [[Wikikids]], which is already being developed in some languages and even [[:eu:Txikipedia:Azala|functions as a sub-project of Basque Wikipedia]], reformat the project, make it Wikimedia-level initiative and allow the communities to grow under a new brand and under Wikimedia movement’s umbrella. Then it wouldn’t be sticking out like a sore thumb, but rather would allow us to do something bigger on the basis of established project. (I don’t know how well other language versions of such project would do, I just think that it is very hypocritical to keep Simple English Wikipedia and force other projects to do workarounds if they want to work on something similar on their own.) [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 22:44, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
** To add in response to some points above: the place in list of Wikipedias shouldn’t mean anything, because other wikis, even if they are the smallest of them all, still represent a corpus in respective languages. Simplewiki is the only project that does not, so it is not correct to compare it with ''language'' editions in any way. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 22:53, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Strong Oppose''' Simple is useful to new english speakers, such as people who have never spoken english before. I agree that it needs some work - but it is not enough to warrent closing it. '''[[User:Xenrose|Xenrøse]]''' • '''[[User talk:Xenrose|T]]''' 22:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per TonyBallioni and CFCF .Simple English is not a separate language further it is not clear or there is no evidence how Simple English Wikipedia helps starters or that it has a separate audience or that new English speakers benefit from it there are thousands of articles in English Wikipedia which use simpler English than Simple Wikipedia or what is the benefit of having a separate Wikipedia that English Wikipedia does not cover.[[User:Pharaoh of the Wizards|Pharaoh of the Wizards]] ([[User talk:Pharaoh of the Wizards|talk]]) 23:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Rather than using the ambiguous "thousands", could you provide examples? From my experience, the English Wikipedia is almost always significantly more complex than it's SEW counterpart-article, and when it isn't they're of equal simplicity. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 23:43, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support closure''' per TonyBallioni. From admittedly brief research it seems that Simple acts more as a playground for LTA users and sockmasters ([https://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:LovelyGirl7&action=history At least one of which immediately identified themselves as such...?]) rather than a useful project. As has been stated, this is nothing to do with closing down small language wikis, as simple English isn't a discrete language. [[User:Firefly|ƒirefly]] ( [[User talk:Firefly|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Firefly|c]] · [[en:User:Firefly/who|who?]] ) 23:19, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Many LTA's edit on the Simple English Wikipedia after their socks had been blocked on the English Wikipedia. With the specific example of LovelyGirl7, see [[:simple:User:Vermont/Reports/LovelyGirl7]]. A lot of my work (which I would be doing even if SEW didn't exist) is anti-LTA. It's not as large of an issue as many make it out to be. Most are blocked within an hour of their first edit, and with few exceptions, their edits are not left for any period of time. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 23:37, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' basically per TonyBallioni, Ivanvector and CFCF. It would be better to dedicate the effort to making enwiki more accessible, or other language versions more complete than continue with what amounts to a poorly-defined content fork, which is frequently used as the playground of LTAs. [[User:Stwalkerster|stwalkerster]] ([[User talk:Stwalkerster|talk]]) 23:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per Vermont and Eptalon. [[User:Jared837|Jared837]] ([[User talk:Jared837|talk]]) 00:00, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Weak oppose''': I think ideas of integration with enwp are interesting, and were something concrete suggested I might agree with it (e.g. having another tab at the top of the browser view so it reads "Article | Simplified article | Talk"). But I don't think shutting down the project would be helpful, particularly without any specific plans of what to do with the content. Also, volunteers can work on whatever they want, and all who edit Simple are choosing to do so (though I concede perhaps a few are misguided in their thoughts of how helpful their edits to Simple are). {{pb}} I'm slightly in two minds because from what I've seen, the Simple English Wikipedia is not of particularly consistent quality and doesn't always have great prose. Then again, I'm not the target audience. As for how well-known a thing it is, I think it's fairly obscure but I've had the (''very'') occasional article pop up in the first few Google results for a term, and I once overheard someone in high school telling their friend that if they clicked the "Simple English" link in the sidebar, it would "simplify the article". — [[User:Bilorv|Bilorv]] ([[User talk:Bilorv|talk]]) 00:46, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The opening premise of the proposal that "it is doubtful it is used by anyone" can be debunked pretty quickly. It's had more than [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&start=2015-07&end=2018-05&sites=simple.wikipedia.org 15 million readers per month since September 2017] and the number of page views has been increasing steadily since 2015. I'm surprised it's that high, but evidently people are finding it somehow. Maybe it would be worth surveying the ''readers'' about whether their needs are being served by simple Wikipedia before we consider closing it. [[User:Richard Nevell|Richard Nevell]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell|talk]]) 01:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' unless there is a a clear, well-defined and realistic plan of including the "new tab or button" as mentioned. Also disagree that it is merely a playground for vandals, since there is an [[simple:User:ChenzwBot|anti-vandal bot]], [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T182012 ORES support] and fairly active admins for a wiki of its size. [[User:Darylgolden|Darylgolden]] ([[User talk:Darylgolden|talk]]) 01:48, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Is this Wiki taking up too much bandwidth or something? I also want to mention that this has already been nominated twice for deletion in the past. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 02:37, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per Piotrus, TonyBallioni, Ivanvector, and CFCF. [[User:Double sharp|Double sharp]] ([[User talk:Double sharp|talk]]) 04:15, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per the rather thorough opposing arguments listed above. Any of the issues raised by the opposing arguments above can be solved without closing the project. If a merge does happen though, a separate <code>Simple:</code> namespace should probably be the method of consolidating the content. — AfroThundr ([[User:AfroThundr3007730|u]] · [[User talk:AfroThundr3007730|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/AfroThundr3007730|c]]) 05:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. Simple.wp is not achieving its mission. If you pick random articles from that site and run them through readability tests, they generally fail for the target audience level, most of them are woefully inadequate, are outdated in the cases where currency of the information is an issue, and many are full of unsourced and even patently false (i.e. vandalism) claims. The site is disused by readers, and has too small an editorial base to ensure even basic accuracy and other quality measures. It would make more sense for some combination of various forms of [[w:en:Simple English|Simple English]] to be integrated into en.WP itself, perhaps as a sidebar option. The large editorial base at the main English Wikipedia is in a much better position to create and maintain "translations" of full-English articles into a simplified form of the language. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 06:31, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*:Last month the site received [https://stats.wikimedia.org/v2/#/simple.wikipedia.org 18 million views from 7.8 million unique devices]. How do you define 'disuse by readers'? [[User:Richard Nevell|Richard Nevell]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell|talk]]) 07:32, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose closure''' there are active editors and readers on this wikipedia, so I see no reason to close. A different amount of completeness to the EN WP is no reason to close. Unless there are severe widespread systemic problems, which I haven't read from above, this decision should be determined by editors from within said wikipedia, not canvassed editors from the EN WP. --[[User:Tom (LT)|LT910001]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 10:00, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong Oppose''' Used it plenty in my younger years and it definitely has its place. Very useful when new English speakers don't understand the en-wp article, they can simply hop over to simple. --[[User:Treetear|Treetear]] ([[User talk:Treetear|talk]]) 14:47, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' As what Piotrus, TonyBallioni, Ivanvector, and CFCF said. [[User:TomasTomasTomas|TomasTomasTomas]] ([[User talk:TomasTomasTomas|talk]]) 15:41, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' There is no good reason for closing a wiki that is still working towards its goals. It is unfair to compare it directly with English Wikipedia when really its equivalent would be more like 2006 English Wikipedia. The progress of simple is a lot slower than English because it has 30 regular editors at best vs. 10s of thousands on the other. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 16:54, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' It doesn't seem to me as if closing it will solve any problem, and I'm also concerned about procedure - we're discussing shutting down a wiki other than the one we contribute to. I don't see any compelling reason to close here. [[User:SportingFlyer|SportingFlyer]] ([[User talk:SportingFlyer|talk]]) 17:50, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Simple.wiki has problems - I think everyone can agree on that - but I don't believe it's problems have risen to the point where closing the project would be a net positive to Wikimedia as a whole. Perhaps this proposal will serve as a call to Simple.wiki that change needs to happen, and I hope that the wider Wikimedia community can pull together to help support Simple fix its problems. - [[User:There'sNoTime|TNT]][[User talk:There'sNoTime|❤]] 17:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' This is simply a solution looking for a problem. The arguments for support are unconvincing, especially [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]]'s claim that simple is just a breeding ground for LTAs. Shutting that down won't stop them, they'll just move to some other small wiki and set up show there. Hell, even the test wikis can be the same breeding grounds. Arguments of little readership are also unconvincing. Views aren't everything, but views by unique devices is something different, and that number is also fairly high. The only argument the convinces me a little is the fact that the community there is out-manned and quality is suffering, but the same could be said for roughly 600 other WMF projects. Are we to close those down too?—[[:en:User:Cyberpower678|'''CYBERPOWER''']] ([[:en:User talk:Cyberpower678|Chat]]) 17:59, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
**Yes, but it also literally has NO positive characteristics at all and actively harms it’s readers by diverting them in wikis where the information is better conveyed in their own language. It’s the epitome of Anglophone arrogance to assume that people would rather read substandard English than their own language. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:19, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
***I wouldn't say no positive characteristics. What English has over all other languages is that it's the universal language when communicating internationally, especially true among airline pilots. People who are trying to learn that language tend to try and learn the simple stuff in a language first, and then move on to the more complex stuff. Simplewiki can be used as a stepping stone in such instances.—[[:en:User:Cyberpower678|'''CYBERPOWER''']] ([[:en:User talk:Cyberpower678|Chat]]) 18:24, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
****I still think this is an exceptionally arrogant way to view it, and also think that isn’t the purpose of an encyclopedia. There are many better ESL resources out there and I see no value at all in the project and active harm coming from it in multiple ways. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:28, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*****Aside from the LTAs, can you give specifics as to how this is harmful?—[[:en:User:Cyberpower678|'''CYBERPOWER''']] ([[:en:User talk:Cyberpower678|Chat]]) 18:30, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*****Tony, we're not suggesting that people should learn English from SEW, or that they should abandon their native language wikis for SEW. We're just supporting that a Wikipedia using simpler English is beneficial and useful to many. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:36, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
****Not only is it used as a stepping stone, but for many smaller language wiki's the Simple English article is simply bigger and more detailed. And for those who don't have a firm grasp on English easier to read then a complex one. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 18:32, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
******By not directing people to projects that would better serve their needs and giving them a poorly done knock-off of en.wiki. No one wants to read non-standard English. Readers aren’t served by this project and people who need information are done a disservice. Simple only exists for people from other Wikipedia projects to mess around with. If we’re fine with it, let’s just say that, not pretend it actually helps readers. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:36, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{o}} closing it, this is useful to people who not have learned regular english and need to learn better, but the wiki is small and maybe also be closed.[[Special:Contributions/46.227.72.88|46.227.72.88]] 18:14, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{Oppose}} Just because there are problems, that does not mean that a simple closure is the solution. Instead of saying that there are problems and wanting to close a project which works for many users, why not instead focus on addressing these problems? You say that no one knows about Simple Wikipedia, well maybe we should focus on informing people. Or there are mentions of LTAs; other measures can be taken in order to fix this. Simple Wikipedia has worked for many people for years, and there are still many volunteers willing to keep the project running, so I don't see any good reason for a closure. Also, why close this wiki when there are many more way smaller wikis, struggling with the same issues? Another question: what would we achieve with the closure of Simple? I don't think diverting editors to Enwiki would work, since usually people who edit on Simple choose to, in order to help users who do not know such well English, or maybe because the editors themselves don't. [[User:Reception123|Reception123]] ([[User talk:Reception123|talk]]) 19:45, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Think there could be more effective ways, in terms of time and resources, to help the target audience of SEW than what the project is doing now. [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 20:04, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Lean towards opposition to closing''' of the Simple English Wikipedia. The Simple English Wikipedia has its place as an accessible encyclopedia for children or for people who do not speak English as a first language. [[User:Vorbee|Vorbee]] ([[User talk:Vorbee|talk]]) 20:36, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Weak oppose''' - many arguments for closing it are valid, but I am afraid that saying "we should close it because it's constantly getting vandalised or spammed" is basically giving the vandals a sweet victory. They were trying to destroy the project for long time and now you let them have it? If anything - project being vandalised should never be a valid reason to close it. On other side it's true that this project is probably not very useful for target audience. But - it still is useful for the community. Many administrators of English wikipedia start as admins on simple wikipedia, where they learn to use the tools properly and prove they can be trusted with them. Sometimes you can even see in RfA on enwiki that users who aren't getting support are told to try to apply on simplewiki first to get more reputation and skills. Because the community is so small, it's way less conservative than enwiki, so deployment of new software features is much easier on simple wiki. I know it sounds like it's a sandbox for English Wikipedia, but keep in mind that wikipedia started just as sandbox for nupedia as well, and look what it became ;) simplewiki is maybe not useful for target audience right now, but it cost basically no money to operate it, its small community enjoy to maintain it, and devs like to use it as a sandbox for actual wikipedia. So I definitely can't agree that it's not useful at all, or that it's "too much effort to maintain it". There are volunteers who enjoy maintaining it. [[User:Petrb|Petrb]] ([[User talk:Petrb|talk]]) 21:40, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. I don't personally think simple is good for much, but the arguments that it's actually harmful are just not convincing. Let people who find it valuable put their work where they choose. If some of them are people who would be banned from en.wiki, well, who cares? I might feel differently depending on how much of a resource drain it is, but if it's a resource drain, let the Foundation tell us that. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 21:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''based on LTA abuse. With recent experience of LTA abuse, I can say we can manage LTAs case by case. A fast block (duck) is enough to contain the harm. '''No opinions''' on other issues.--[[User:Cohaf|Cohaf]] ([[User talk:Cohaf|talk]]) 22:22, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' unless there are concrete and realistic plans for a merger of ENWP and SEWP rather than wafer-thin suggestions. Lest we have forgotten, we are talking about volunteers, not paid staff. If someone wants to contribute to SEWP, that is their choice. As far as I know, there are no paid WMF staff toiling on SEWP, so I don’t see an argument for trying to push those volunteers to working on ENWP. I have done a couple of thousand edits on SEWP, and I can see the advantage of simpler articles. The failure was ENWP not adopting the idea of all article ledes being written in Simple English back in 2000-whatever. SEWP is not a perfect wiki but then again neither is any other wiki. There are more pressing Wikimedia-wide problems such as the burgeoning non-free content on dozens of wikis, many without adequate administrative oversight, which could be solved by creating a second image repository to complement Commons. Let’s support smaller wikis rather than reinforcing the ENWP stranglehold on Wikimedia by closing them. I was once a staunch English Wikipedian with a quite centralizing view i.e. pretty much every wiki could be recreated as namespace or a tab in ENWP. However, I have moved towards becoming a Wikimedian, with significant contributions to at least six wikis and I would urge more Wikipedians to do the same. [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] ([[User talk:Green Giant|talk]]) 22:32, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. "Simple.wiki doesn't show up in Google results"? Sometimes, it's ranked higher than the normal English Wikipedia (in most of these cases, both are on page 1 of the results). [[User:Lojbanist|Lojbanist]] ([[User talk:Lojbanist|talk]]) 22:53, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
**{{ping|Lojbanist}} Could you show an example of that? --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 08:33, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I went through clicking "Show any page" and found that about 1/3 to 1/4 of articles show up on the first page of Google, although I could not find any that were above enwiki. I then checked a few simplewiki Very Good Articles, and although they came right next to enwiki, it was always second. I can provide images if needed, and I conducted these tests using a web browser I had never opened before. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 12:16, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Enough people find Simple useful to justify keeping it open. [[User:SilkTork|SilkTork]] ([[User talk:SilkTork|talk]]) 00:13, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::The most viewed article on Simple gets [https://tools.wmflabs.org/topviews/?project=simple.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&date=last-month&excludes= 287,412 monthly views]. There are 5,669,952 articles on Wikipedia. [https://tools.wmflabs.org/topviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&date=last-month&excludes= 5,668,995 of those articles] get less monthly views than the top Simple article. And while we are on stats, there are [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Backlog over 500,000 articles on Wikipedia that need references, including over 45,000 BLPs]. No Wiki project is perfect. [[User:SilkTork|SilkTork]] ([[User talk:SilkTork|talk]]) 00:56, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support closure''' I knew little about Simple English Wikipedia (SEW) until this discussion, so came into this survey with an open mind. I have to say that, on balance, the argument is leaning towards closure of SEW. I had a look at the SEW articles and concluded that it is not fit for purpose. There is no clear definition of what "simple English" is being used, or anything like the same kind of checks and balances on article quality from the few editors who work over there. It seems to be a clear case of a good idea *at the time* turning into something of a relic, more Wikia than Wikipedia. If Wikipedia can allow for Serbian's version to have both Roman and Cyrillic versions on the same article with different tabs, perhaps Simple English could be similarly "merged" into en.wiki? [[User:Doktorbuk|Doktorbuk]] ([[User talk:Doktorbuk|talk]]) 09:43, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{o}} To act in good faith, if we want to integrate the Simple editors we should pursue that before any talk of closing their wiki. As an engineer, I also want to point out that we're already at a point where we could support such an initiative technologically, using Wikidata to link Simple with English content and making it more prominent to readers, and the Simple content could even be presented in a translation-like interface as a model for English editors to follow when simplifying their content. At the social level, I agree with points above that English would benefit from Simple's universality. At any rate, we would be better off reaching out to the editors as allies first, and only then taking drastic steps, that have been planned together. [[User:Adamw|Adamw]] ([[User talk:Adamw|talk]]) 11:24, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - most importantly, I don't believe that SEW is yet failing a net positive test. Secondly, we should be trying additional steps to help it before we consider throwing it out (one suggestion is below). Thirdly, I would want a detailed proposal setting out exactly what was being done with the shutting down (etc) of SEW before I could !vote support. [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) 13:07, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per TonyBallioni. For those who say "if we take down simple.wiki, why wouldn't we take down smaller wikis?", the answer is clear: '''simple English is not a language'''. [[User:L293D|L293D]] ([[User talk:L293D|talk]]) 15:15, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
**{{ping|L293D}}That might be an argument for renaming it to [[w:Basic English|Basic English]], but it isn't an argument for taking it down.[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 16:03, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

==Discussion==
===Early discussion that started on simple===

:Hello there. I am probably one of the oldest contributors (who still edits) Simple Wikipedia, and I have been with the project since the end of 2006. Over the least years I have seen that there is a growing knowledge that SEWP exists within the community; I think there have been (failed) proposals to start with similar ideas for French and German language Wikipedias. Many editors I have known from EnWP have an ambivalent, to hostile attitude towards SEWP, its editors, and its users. In that context, I cannot see how the project could be "absorbed" into EnWP. Yes, SEWP faces the problem of visibility, but I guess thats common to most smaller Wikis. How many editors are there for the Latin language, Scots, Gaelic, or Alemannic Wikipedias? - How many times have the closure of the respective projects been discussed? Another problem I see: How many editors care about readablity? - If the article is about mathematics, put the formulas, they stand for themselves? Compare [[:simple:Navier–Stokes equations]] to [[:en:Navier–Stokes equations]], and tell me how much a person that is not in natural sciences will understand from each version? - In my opinion, many editors of ENWP have lost the interest in explaining concepts, so that a common audience can understand them. The result is, that ENWP has many poor quality articles, which are not improved, because quality is not enforced. SEWP has a small base of quality aware editors, so that the rate of poor quality article is probably lower. Simple English Wikipedia is about explaining concepts well, it is not so much about using word-lists. A word list won't help when it comes to scientifically accurate articles. SEWP has an issue with visibility; it does not have one with content. "Merging" SEWP into ENWP will not solve the problem. It will increase the problem, because as I pointed out, many editors of ENWP lack the interest and incentives to write scientifically accurate articles that a common person with no specialized domain knowledge can understand. In short: Merging won't work. Even if the userbase is small,the project has found its niche, and I don't think it should be deleted, for the reasons given. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 10:29, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Before I forget: Being featured in pages like [https://xkcd.com/547/ XKCD] shows that the project has a certain visibility outside the community. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 11:10, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::EnWiki is big and some people are hostile to anything new. But that doesn't change the fact that SEW niche is too niche to be useful to pretty much anyone. Other languages are not a valid comparison, as they are, well, other languages. Simple English is a variant that can be, with some support from MediaWiki coders, incorporated into English Wikipedia. If you care about SEW content, you should care to make it as visible as possible. And the only way to make it visible (and hence, useful) is to make it a feature of En Wiki. Please don't think about losing identify, or project history, or such. This shouldn't matter, our main concern should be the benefits for the reader. My Korean students would certainly enjoy reading SEW articles which are more suited to their language level than general En Wiki articles, but there is no way they'll start using SEW because it has so little visibility it doesn't come in search engines. It's time to fix this. Let's not assume En Wiki will be by default hostile to absorbing SEW content. If this is done as a cool new feature (a new tab, perhaps), or such, majority should be ok. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 11:10, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::The idea that it doesn't come up in search engines is just plain false, it is often the first hit for a number of subjects. Or at the very least the link right below the English one. So that is an idea that needs to be nipped in the bud right away. And yes other languages are a valid comparison as Simple English has recently been recognized as a distinct language with its own ISO code. So it is no different than the variants of other languages that Eptalon mentions below that have even less of an audience than we do. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 14:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::''What is the ISO code? I couldn't find one. Note: ISO 639–6 has been withdrawn, and LangCom doesn't use it. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 16:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)''
:::::I can't remember off the top of my head. It was actually from LangCom that I was told of it, there is a ticket in to switch simple to it eventually. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 16:57, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Your claim that no one uses it is also false. You used the example of [[:simple:Donald Trump]], which is quite misleading. I was actually surprised at how little [[:simple:Donald Trump|Donald Trump]] was viewed, but it is not like that on other pages in the SEW. The article [[:simple:Names of God in Islam|Names of God in Islam]] receives a daily average of 1791 daily views. The English Wikipedia article [[:en:Names of God in Islam|Names of God in Islam]] receives an average of 526 daily pageviews. Recently when Donald Trump announced the proposal of the U.S. Space Force, [[:simple:Military of the United States|Military of the United States]] was viewed 6,530 times. This is not as insignificant as you make it out to be in your examples. Furthermore, this year the Simple English Wikipedia has received an average of [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&range=this-year&sites=simple.wikipedia.org 614,344 daily page views]. If you look at the [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&range=all-time&sites=simple.wikipedia.org all-time graph], you'd see a steady increase in average daily page views. See [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&range=this-year&sites=simple.wikipedia.org|az.wikipedia.org|nn.wikipedia.org|ur.wikipedia.org this graph] comparing the SEW (52nd largest wiki) to the 51st, 50th, and 49th largest Wikipedias. Regarding you saying "there is no way they'll start using SEW because it has so little visibility it doesn't come in search engines", could I ask what search engine they're using? I just tested it on computers/browsers that I've never used to edit, and in many cases it shows up on the first or second page of results. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 16:44, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Alemannic is one of the many dialects of German; there are no discussions to merge it into German language Wikipedia. As to the different varieties of Gaelic, how many of them have subprojects? - Scots, Irish, possibly Manx, and the variant in Brittany? - Should we therefore have one Wiki for "Gaelic", rather than three or four? - about ten million people have a passive knowledge of Plattdeutsch, about two million speak it natively. Is this reflected in the number of editors we have for Plattdeutsch? (and yes, with some effort it could probably be merged with the Dutch language Wiki). So please stop arguing that a project should be closed because it has little visibility; you had rather work towards increasing its visibility. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 11:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

:::I've been with Simple English wiki since 2009, and contributed about 2,600 articles, and over 60k article edits. To start with, the comparison with Donald Trump is misleading, because the top few En wiki articles are flushed by transient hits caused by notoriety. I kept records for many years of the simple pages I had written, especially the ones I had written without using copy-text from En wiki. I found the ratio was roughly 50 to one: there are about 50 En wiki hits to every one on Simple.
:::I edit subjects which are on basic school and university curricula, and try to write them much more simply that their counterparts on Englosh wiki. I always have been utterly shocked at the poor standard of prose written on En wiki. There are some exceptions, of course, and some whole areas where the contributions are superb. Music on En wiki is one example. But overall, the general standard is below poor. It is common to find sentences so long that it's clear the writer has completely lost track of where he started. Basic concepts are not explained properly. This is especially damaging where the topic is one which will occur on school syllabi. In fact, every possible error in writing prose can be liberally found on En wiki pages.
:::Moving on, moving on... The other topic is the link between a given article on En wiki and its counterpart in Simple. Many of us pleaded for putting the link for Simple at the top of the list of languages on En wiki pages. This was rejected. Now we get buried near the bottom of the list. Anything which improves the connection is to be welcomed.
:::Though it's only a minor point, remember that no branch of wikipedia has any effective kind of audience research. We don't even know who the users are! If we want to improve wikipedias in general, that is the place to look. It would be a major enterprise, of that I am sure. But it is the weak spot of all open wiki systems that they cannot know whether they achieve what they set out to do. If you think I'm exaggerating, have a look at the kind of developmental research done in programmed learning, and by the childrens' television workshop. [[User:Macdonald-ross|Macdonald-ross]] ([[User talk:Macdonald-ross|talk]]) 12:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*I mentioned Alemannic (als), Latin(la), and Scots wikipedia further up. Looking at the number of daily page views they are a factor of 20 behind SEWP (In the order of 10-20k, compared to the 500k of SEWP). Just for clarity... --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 18:26, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*I just have a very quick observation. There is a Wikipedia in Northern Sami. (se.) To the last data available (which is 20-30 years old), there are about 10-11 samic languages. These languages form two or three large groups; languages within the group are mutually understandable, those from another group need a lot of training/ exercise. Some of the languages had as little as 20 speakers (at the time the data was collected, that is either 1993 or 2002). In total, there were about 25.000 speakers of Samic languages; about 60% of them also understood Northern Sami. I could now argue that the about 7.000 people who did not understand Northern Sami, would proably not be able to profit from Northern Sami Wikipedia, and that Northern Sami Wikipedia should be closed down... And yes, ISP 639 has 11 (3-letter) codes for the different Sami Dialects. Different Sami dialects are recognised minority languages in Finland, Norway, and Sweden. Lets now assume that we capture 5% of the Sami people with our project. This would make almost 2.000 potential editors. Closing down Northern Sami would be amlost painless, yet, some people at the foundation consider Wikipedia to have a mission. Even if only very little money is spent on Northern Sami Wikipedia, its editor is much more valuable...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 18:03, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

===Line break===
*'''Note''' I have posted notice on the administrators noticeboard and village pumps of the English Wikipedia as this proposal would affect it (by diverting editors from simple to en.wiki) and it is the main Wikipedia for the English language, and thus participants from that language group would likely be inteterested. See: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)&diff=prev&oldid=846584293], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=846584217], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)&diff=prev&oldid=846584293], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Centralized_discussion&diff=prev&oldid=846589116]. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 17:31, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:*Will be interesting to see how the discussion goes now that it has been posted there because that is likely to cause the same thing that happens every time we try to have a cross wiki discussion involving the two projects, the English Wikipedia editors completely swamp and drown out anything that the Simple editors suggest due to numbers. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 17:06, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Note''' I have notified the English Wikipedia Medicine WikiProject at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#Proposal_for_closing_Simple_English_Wikipedia], as they have had some interaction with SEW in the past. --[[User:Mark viking|Mark viking]] ([[User talk:Mark viking|talk]]) 18:38, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I am very much in between on this. I think there are many reasons that this project should be closed but I also think that the concept has significant value. What I would like to see come from this is ''meaningful change'' within the community itself and administration. Simple, at it's heart is meant for readers, just like every other project. The content should be simplified for all the people it is meant to target. The problem is, the project is not attracting editors to bring that content and instead attracts all those mentioned above. This isn't about LTAs or vandals but I think the downfall of Simple Wikipedia has been the intense focus on the bureaucracy of it, where so much of the community and time is spent making the backend editing "simpler" and is being used as a stepping stone for editing that wouldn't be accepted elsewhere. Specifically, I think all of the backend stuff, the things that the target audience (readers) will never see or know exists, should mirror that of it's successful sister projects, meaning policies, guidelines, to an extent. This, in my opinion, will help attract competent editors again and get rid of that [[en:Mean Girls|"she doesn't even go here"]] attitude. If I am mistaken about the core purpose of this, I think the whole thing needs to be re-valuated as ultimately, this is an extension of an encyclopedia and ultimately the output is content and if we want to encourage people who would otherwise struggle, specifically due to language barriers or other issues on larger projects to edit, perhaps there needs to be a new project, similar to Wikiversity or test wiki. [[User:Chrissymad|Chrissymad]] ([[User talk:Chrissymad|talk]]) 19:35, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - I (and others) have voted above based on the merits of simplewiki, rather than the merging proposal given in the introduction. That proposal might be worth exploring, but should really be done on enwiki. A project to create "executive summaries" of pages could be started on enwiki and tested to see how it works. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 19:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. One of the problems of simple English is that it is actually very difficult to write well about a complex topic in simple English, but that is not a reason to shut it down. · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 20:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Question'''. Is the claim that closing simple will bring its editors to en: based on anything beyond wishful thinking? · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 20:08, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*:I know that for many editors on simplewiki, the fact that it isn't enwiki is a feature not a bug. Not everyone likes the bureaucracy and drama associated with a large project. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 22:13, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::It's more than wishful thinking, in my opinion. Ajrddatz is completely right; many of SEW's editors prefer it due to the lack of bureaucracy and drama that is plentiful in enwp. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:21, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Question''': Was a notice of this proposal posted anywhere on Simple English Wikipedia? I don't go there much, but there is nothing on the main page there. [[User:RudolfRed|RudolfRed]] ([[User talk:RudolfRed|talk]]) 20:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Yes. [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Simple_talk#There's_a_new_proposal_to_close_down_Simple_English_Wikipedia here] [[User:Operator873|Operator873]] ([[User talk:Operator873|talk]]) 20:33, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I haven't decided to support or oppose this proposal yet, but I have been looking over the Simple English Wikipedia, where I had never made any edits until today (in over 5 years of editing on this account). What I have found does not do much to convince me that the project should be kept, even though I have become skeptical of claims that "we need to delete everything!" since someone tried, unsuccessfully, to delete all portals on en.wiki (many of you of course know what I'm talking about). One of the biggest problems is that the Simple wiki is not very active, so vandalism can sometimes sit unchanged and unnoticed for much longer than it should (or would on en.wikipedia, or other much more active projects). This even happened over a decade ago and they covered it on NPR. [https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91371632 Apparently the Great Barrier Reef was discovered by 'Ben Dover']. This is what people need to bear in mind when someone says "what's the harm, so long as some people use it?" The answer is that it provides a relatively save haven for trolls, vandals, and good-faith users who don't understand how to create well-written and -sourced articles, all of whom can and do roam far too freely, often without anyone cleaning up their messes, on a project that is not very active. Simple also has the side effect of inviting [https://herald-review.com/blogs/decaturade/excerpts-from-simple-english-wikipedia/article_f4bf9e57-b1d5-5e16-bbc1-ecf0920e091d.html mockery] for its numerous poorly-written articles. I am also sympathetic to the idea of merging Simple with en.wikipedia.org, because English Wikipedia articles should be written simply enough for non-experts to understand them anyway (though I realize that's not quite the same thing as writing an article to be read by ESL students/children). But maybe it'd be a good idea to add a "simplified version" button as mentioned above by some users. [[User:Everymorning|Everymorning]] ([[User talk:Everymorning|talk]]) 21:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**{{rto|Everymorning}} Pretty much what I said, but shorter and probably nicer :) --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 08:26, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Question''': how large, active and well read is Simple English Wikipedia? Are there any other Wikipedias that are comparable? [[User:John Cummings|John Cummings]] ([[User talk:John Cummings|talk]]) 19:41, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Question''': what strategies could be used to mitigate some of issues raised with Simple English? Are there any easy wins in this list? [[User:John Cummings|John Cummings]] ([[User talk:John Cummings|talk]]) 19:44, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

*While I personally don't think SEW is doing much good, I can see that this discussion is not heading toward a consensus to close it down. Maybe what SEW needs is an influx of new contributors to give it some newfound energy. I would be willing to be part of something like that, but I am not willing to spend much time contributing to SEW in its present state. [[User:Lepricavark|Lepricavark]] ([[User talk:Lepricavark|talk]]) 19:51, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
::{{yo|Lepricavark}} What do you think would make SEW more attractive to new editors? [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 21:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:::{{yo|Vermont}} for one thing, the very small number of regulars makes it hard for others to feel motivated to pitch in. As circular as this answer is, you need more editors to get more editors. I'm happy to be part of a community of contributors, but I don't want to be a lone ranger. I'm not entirely sure how you would go about recruiting new editors. [[User:Lepricavark|Lepricavark]] ([[User talk:Lepricavark|talk]]) 23:01, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
* A dedicated [[en:Wikipedia:Namespace|namespace in en.Wikipedia]] with some vestige of autonomous governance will be enough. In fact, I already proposed it ∼10 years ago, but nothing came from [[../Closure_of_Simple_English_Wikipedia_(2)|the previous discussion]] in general and this idea in particular. [[User:Incnis Mrsi|Incnis Mrsi]] ([[User talk:Incnis Mrsi|talk]]) 19:59, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
::If this results in the keeping of the project I believe it would be beneficial to add a link on enwiki articles to the Simple English version, perhaps on the top of the "In Other Languages" section. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 21:06, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:::We did at one point have an RfC on en to move the simple link to the top of the language list. It failed, but perhaps it could be had again to see if consensus has changed. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 14:29, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

=== Unique status of this wiki ===
I see many arguments pop up about abuse in the project and I don’t regard it as a valid way of thinking, but what I don’t see from ‘support’ side is the justification for keeping the entirely unique status of Simple English wikis (both Wikipedia and Wiktionary) in our movement. Could someone stop arguing about LTAs for a moment and give their thoughts on this specific argument? As a non-English editor, it’s hard for me to fathom or justify the continued existence of Simple English Wikipedia under such lens and it’s sad that mostly English-speaking people don’t engage with this particular thing about current Simple English project in its current and continuing status when (as LangCom is robotically bureaucratic to its core and unable to do any ‘controversial’ decisions that move from their documents) this request will be decided to be rejected. [[User:Saint Johann|stjn]][[:ru:User:Saint Johann|[ru]]] 22:46, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
:Sorry I don't have any references but it is known that some English speakers are intelligent but struggle to comprehend standard written English. Compare [[:simple:Charles Darwin]] and [[:en:Charles Darwin]] and many others. I don't know of any studies regarding users of Simple but there are good editors there as well as LTAs—just like enwiki! [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 00:56, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::I believe it is also of use by non-native speakers who have conversational English. I have also used it, as a native speaker, to understand some of the more insanely complicated articles. I don't think there would be any objection if another major wiki (Germany etc) wanted to create its counterpart (assuming it survives). [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) 13:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

==Counterproposal==
Instead of trying to integrating simple: into en:, which would probably be much like integrating a snowball into hell, keep it as an independent wiki, but make the interwiki links much more prominent between the two on the principle that each is the alternative wiki most likely to be useful to a person using the other. This would make simple: far more visible, and that might be sufficient to kickstart it into a new level of activity and push the quality up a notch or two.

The communities are different. Integration would basically overwhelm and probably destroy the simple: community. Any not-blocked user on any wikimedia project can already edit on any other, so technically nearly all en: users are already users on simple: and vice versa. Closer linking while remaining independent may allow simple: to develop into what it should be. If it doesn't work, little harm will have been done, and the process would be reversible. If it does work, great good may be done. Cheers, · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 06:35, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:I definitely support making the interwikis more prominent on English. It was proposed awhile back on English to do just that but the community there ended up shooting down the proposal with reasoning something along the lines of that would give us special status. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 11:15, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
::It would give special status between en: and simple:, but they are the same language basically, so special status would not be unreasonable. The two Wikipedias are not in competition, we are all working towards the same goals. The special status would work both ways. The advantage would probably be more to the benefit of simple:, but this cannot be known for certain without testing. It is also possible that both projects would benefit, and there is no evidence that I am aware of that it would be any disadvantage at all to en: If it does take any traffic away from en: that would be a fairly good indication that the equivalent article on en: is sub-optimal, and that there is a need for simpler articles which would be valuable feedback. In some cases it is very obvious that the article on en: is poor quality, but an analysis of readers switching between the two might be useful to show where and how both can be improved. I do not think that en: could be threatened in any way by such a change. It may or may not gain much, but there is potential for simple: to gain a lot, the movement to gain a lot, and the reading public to gain a lot. No loss, net gain. Seems a good bet to me. · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 14:44, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Simple English Wikipedia (3)

2018-06-19T22:24:52Z

LeadSongDog: /* Survey */ Oppose

{{Closing project proposal|type = 2|content =English Wikipedia|notice=[[:simple:Talk:Main Page#This project is not reaching a target audience. Propose closure and integration with En Wiki]].}} I will try to keep it simple, and the most simple TL;DR thing to say is - the king is naked and SEW is effectively useless. It was, certainly, a good intention (a project whose target audience are "people with different needs, such as students, children, adults with learning difficulties, and people who are trying to learn English".), but queue in the proverb about good intentions. More than 10 years on, there is no proof that the project is reaching its target audience; on the contrary, it is doubtful it is used by anyone - it's a curio visited by its small group of volunteers and occasionally some random person stumbles upon it, looks around bewildered, and heads back to the much more comprehensive English Wikipedia. I have been teaching students at university in English in South Korea, and not once have I found a student (or a single regular person in Korea or Poland, outside Wikipedia volunteers) who knows of this project. SEW does not show up in Google (or other) search engines, and remains a curiosity, known to some people in the Wikipedia movement - but, again, not to its intended audience.

Now, closure doesn't mean the end of the idea of helping special audiences. We can do it better - in the place which is known to those audiences, i.e. English Wikipedia itself. The best solution would be to integrate it into English Wikipedia through a new tab or prominent button. Nobody clicks on the SEW interlanguage link, and hence very few people, including SEW target audience of ESLs and other special audiences, is aware of it and benefits from the effort of SEW volunteers. So instead of the intuitive 'object, don't close my beloved project', please consider a conditional support 'close if En Wiki gets a new feature to showcase SE content'). INHO this would be the ideal outcome, and then this closure proposal, while put on hold, could be brought to WMF and En Wiki community to discuss how to implement such a feature.

Few other points.

How do you know almost nobody is using this project? Impact comparison: page views for Donald Trump on SE: 187 a day ([https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=simple.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&pages=Donald_Trump]), vs EN Wiki: 50,963
[https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&pages=Donald_Trump], so that's a ratio of 1:1000, roughly. If the project was used by ESLs, who outnumber native speakers by ~10x or so, those numbers would be widely different. But they are not.

Another dimension: SEW school projects list on average one educational project a year: [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Schools/Projects]. En wiki gets dozens if not hundreds of such projects every year ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:School_and_university_projects] is obsolete, but see [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/explore] for a newer version - note how many of those projects are from ESLs (through not all target En wiki)). The point here, is, again, that as a platform to engage ESL students, SEW has failed. Instructors who want to use Wikipedia in education will do so on normal Wikipedia, not on the obscure and unknown SEW.

But what about the claim from English Wikipedia that "Material from the Simple English Wikipedia forms the basis for One Encyclopedia per Child,[ a One Laptop per Child project"?
[[:en:One Laptop per Child]] is a nice imitative, but I have not been able to find any studies or data suggesting its use of SEW is significant. They have been using SEW content for 10+ years - without so much as a single academic study suggesting or confirming it is a good idea. Without scholarly analysis, we cannot say that SEW has educational benefits, one could just as well argue that it gives readers a dumbed down, poorly referenced/written version of content they need. If SEW was really useful, it would be more popular.

An overview of scholarly literature on SEW, again, does not show any indication that the project is useful to its target audience, the few academic papers that discuss it do so generally from the computer science/linguistics perspective, using its simplified word data set for some lingustica/cs analysis like: [https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2002865]. This suggests that the only real world group that finds some moderate use of this projects are a few lingustic/computer science scholars who have a new dataset to play with. While as a scholar myself I appreciate new data sets, I don't think a project whose only effective use is allowing few scholar to publish some obscure research is what we should be supporting.

What do we lose by allowing SEW to exist? There are few dozens if not hundreds volunteers involved in this project, creating content of very little, if any, impact. Their work should would be much more beneficial (to the entire world, including the SEW target audiences of ESLs and others, who - again - generally are not aware of SEW existence, and use En Wiki anyway) if it was incorporated with en Wiki. Some of those volunteers are clearly confused; just a few days ago I copied content from SEW about [[:en:Lee Sang-Bong]], an article that should've been created on en wiki, and that does not seem particularly 'simply written' to me. In addition to misdercting few hundred of volunteers into creating content of little impact, maintaining its infrastructure/views does consume some (if small) portion of WMF budget. Those donations are a limited resource, and even if this project effectively costs [insert random small sum here], this money could be spend on something that is actually useful to a wider group (ex. readers of English Wikipedia, which, yes, I am repeating myself, include majority of SEW target's audience).

It is also worth nothing that SEP suffers from spam. I run [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3Flinkcount%0Awith%20%7B%20%0A%20%20select%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3Fsitelink%20WHERE%0A%7B%0A%09%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ5%20.%0A%09%3Fsitelink%20schema%3Aabout%20%3Fitem%20.%0A%09%3Fsitelink%20schema%3AisPartOf%20%3Chttps%3A%2F%2Fsimple.wikipedia.org%2F%3E%20.%0A%20%20%20%7D%20%20%20%20%20%20%0A%7D%20as%20%25s%0Awhere%20%7B%0A%20include%20%25s%0A%20FILTER%20NOT%20EXISTS%20%7B%20%3Fwfr%20schema%3Aabout%20%3Fitem%20.%20%3Fwfr%20schema%3AinLanguage%20%22en%22.%20%7D%0A%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Fitem%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3FitemLabel.%20filter%28lang%28%3FitemLabel%29%3D%22en%22%29%7D%0A%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Fitem%20wikibase%3Asitelinks%20%3Flinkcount%20.%7D%20%0A%7D%0AORDER%20BY%20DESC%28%3Flinkcount%29 a query on Wikidata] for articles missing from En wiki that are on simple, and indicative - the first three hits were two deleted articles ([[:en:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amir Talai]], [[:en:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Maggard (3rd nomination)]]) and one that was a redirect ([[:en:Brenda Ann Spencer]]).

Bottom line, SEW volunteers may think they are helping ESLs or people with special needs, but they are not, because those people don't know about SEW. They are, therefore, sadly enough, effectively wasting their time. Once the project is merged to En Wiki and closed, they can continue their efforts to improve content of interest to those people, simplify jargon per MoS, or such, on En Wiki.

One final note. I intend no disrespect to the volunteers who created and maintain SEW. Their heart is in the right place, but I do believe that their efforts are misguided and end up creating a trivial site, not something that is useful to the people they intend to help. There is some value in simple explanations of articles, but if you consider [https://lifehacker.com/5935776/simple-english-wikipedia-makes-complex-subjects-easily-understandable] or [https://www.pcmag.com/article/351839/the-best-tools-to-improve-your-wikipedia-experience], note that they suggest that SEW is/should be a feature of English Wikipedia. To some degree, this is a feature issue, SEW simplified versions of articles would be much more useful if they could be accessed from some prominent button on English Wikipedia (nobody looks at the language links to find SEW link...). If SEW volunteers care about having an impact and getting their efforts to the target audiences, they should support this proposal, perhaps conditionally on En Wiki adding a new, prominent feature, something like 'read a Simple English version of this article'. The effective way of bringing SE content to the wider world has to be done through the site that the world uses (i.e. English Wiki). Ending on that hopefully more constructive thought, [[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 08:42, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:Hello there. I am probably one of the oldest contributors (who still edits) Simple Wikipedia, and I have been with the project since the end of 2006. Over the least years I have seen that there is a growing knowledge that SEWP exists within the community; I think there have been (failed) proposals to start with similar ideas for French and German language Wikipedias. Many editors I have known from EnWP have an ambivalent, to hostile attitude towards SEWP, its editors, and its users. In that context, I cannot see how the project could be "absorbed" into EnWP. Yes, SEWP faces the problem of visibility, but I guess thats common to most smaller Wikis. How many editors are there for the Latin language, Scots, Gaelic, or Alemannic Wikipedias? - How many times have the closure of the respective projects been discussed? Another problem I see: How many editors care about readablity? - If the article is about mathematics, put the formulas, they stand for themselves? Compare [[:simple:Navier–Stokes equations]] to [[:en:Navier–Stokes equations]], and tell me how much a person that is not in natural sciences will understand from each version? - In my opinion, many editors of ENWP have lost the interest in explaining concepts, so that a common audience can understand them. The result is, that ENWP has many poor quality articles, which are not improved, because quality is not enforced. SEWP has a small base of quality aware editors, so that the rate of poor quality article is probably lower. Simple English Wikipedia is about explaining concepts well, it is not so much about using word-lists. A word list won't help when it comes to scientifically accurate articles. SEWP has an issue with visibility; it does not have one with content. "Merging" SEWP into ENWP will not solve the problem. It will increase the problem, because as I pointed out, many editors of ENWP lack the interest and incentives to write scientifically accurate articles that a common person with no specialized domain knowledge can understand. In short: Merging won't work. Even if the userbase is small,the project has found its niche, and I don't think it should be deleted, for the reasons given. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 10:29, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Before I forget: Being featured in pages like [https://xkcd.com/547/ XKCD] shows that the project has a certain visibility outside the community. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 11:10, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::EnWiki is big and some people are hostile to anything new. But that doesn't change the fact that SEW niche is too niche to be useful to pretty much anyone. Other languages are not a valid comparison, as they are, well, other languages. Simple English is a variant that can be, with some support from MediaWiki coders, incorporated into English Wikipedia. If you care about SEW content, you should care to make it as visible as possible. And the only way to make it visible (and hence, useful) is to make it a feature of En Wiki. Please don't think about losing identify, or project history, or such. This shouldn't matter, our main concern should be the benefits for the reader. My Korean students would certainly enjoy reading SEW articles which are more suited to their language level than general En Wiki articles, but there is no way they'll start using SEW because it has so little visibility it doesn't come in search engines. It's time to fix this. Let's not assume En Wiki will be by default hostile to absorbing SEW content. If this is done as a cool new feature (a new tab, perhaps), or such, majority should be ok. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 11:10, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::The idea that it doesn't come up in search engines is just plain false, it is often the first hit for a number of subjects. Or at the very least the link right below the English one. So that is an idea that needs to be nipped in the bud right away. And yes other languages are a valid comparison as Simple English has recently been recognized as a distinct language with its own ISO code. So it is no different than the variants of other languages that Eptalon mentions below that have even less of an audience than we do. -[[User:Djsasso|Djsasso]] ([[User talk:Djsasso|talk]]) 14:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::''What is the ISO code? I couldn't find one. Note: ISO 639–6 has been withdrawn, and LangCom doesn't use it. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 16:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)''
:::Your claim that no one uses it is also false. You used the example of [[:simple:Donald Trump]], which is quite misleading. I was actually surprised at how little [[:simple:Donald Trump|Donald Trump]] was viewed, but it is not like that on other pages in the SEW. The article [[:simple:Names of God in Islam|Names of God in Islam]] receives a daily average of 1791 daily views. The English Wikipedia article [[:en:Names of God in Islam|Names of God in Islam]] receives an average of 526 daily pageviews. Recently when Donald Trump announced the proposal of the U.S. Space Force, [[:simple:Military of the United States|Military of the United States]] was viewed 6,530 times. This is not as insignificant as you make it out to be in your examples. Furthermore, this year the Simple English Wikipedia has received an average of [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&range=this-year&sites=simple.wikipedia.org 614,344 daily page views]. If you look at the [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&range=all-time&sites=simple.wikipedia.org all-time graph], you'd see a steady increase in average daily page views. See [https://tools.wmflabs.org/siteviews/?platform=all-access&source=pageviews&agent=user&range=this-year&sites=simple.wikipedia.org|az.wikipedia.org|nn.wikipedia.org|ur.wikipedia.org this graph] comparing the SEW (52nd largest wiki) to the 51st, 50th, and 49th largest Wikipedias. Regarding you saying "there is no way they'll start using SEW because it has so little visibility it doesn't come in search engines", could I ask what search engine they're using? I just tested it on computers/browsers that I've never used to edit, and in many cases it shows up on the first or second page of results. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 16:44, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Alemannic is one of the many dialects of German; there are no discussions to merge it into German language Wikipedia. As to the different varieties of Gaelic, how many of them have subprojects? - Scots, Irish, possibly Manx, and the variant in Brittany? - Should we therefore have one Wiki for "Gaelic", rather than three or four? - about ten million people have a passive knowledge of Plattdeutsch, about two million speak it natively. Is this reflected in the number of editors we have for Plattdeutsch? (and yes, with some effort it could probably be merged with the Dutch language Wiki). So please stop arguing that a project should be closed because it has little visibility; you had rather work towards increasing its visibility. --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 11:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

:::I've been with Simple English wiki since 2009, and contributed about 2,600 articles, and over 60k article edits. To start with, the comparison with Donald Trump is misleading, because the top few En wiki articles are flushed by transient hits caused by notoriety. I kept records for many years of the simple pages I had written, especially the ones I had written without using copy-text from En wiki. I found the ratio was roughly 50 to one: there are about 50 En wiki hits to every one on Simple.
:::I edit subjects which are on basic school and university curricula, and try to write them much more simply that their counterparts on Englosh wiki. I always have been utterly shocked at the poor standard of prose written on En wiki. There are some exceptions, of course, and some whole areas where the contributions are superb. Music on En wiki is one example. But overall, the general standard is below poor. It is common to find sentences so long that it's clear the writer has completely lost track of where he started. Basic concepts are not explained properly. This is especially damaging where the topic is one which will occur on school syllabi. In fact, every possible error in writing prose can be liberally found on En wiki pages.
:::Moving on, moving on... The other topic is the link between a given article on En wiki and its counterpart in Simple. Many of us pleaded for putting the link for Simple at the top of the list of languages on En wiki pages. This was rejected. Now we get buried near the bottom of the list. Anything which improves the connection is to be welcomed.
:::Though it's only a minor point, remember that no branch of wikipedia has any effective kind of audience research. We don't even know who the users are! If we want to improve wikipedias in general, that is the place to look. It would be a major enterprise, of that I am sure. But it is the weak spot of all open wiki systems that they cannot know whether they achieve what they set out to do. If you think I'm exaggerating, have a look at the kind of developmental research done in programmed learning, and by the childrens' television workshop. [[User:Macdonald-ross|Macdonald-ross]] ([[User talk:Macdonald-ross|talk]]) 12:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*I mentioned Alemannic (als), Latin(la), and Scots wikipedia further up. Looking at the number of daily page views they are a factor of 20 behind SEWP (In the order of 10-20k, compared to the 500k of SEWP). Just for clarity... --[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 18:26, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*I just have a very quick observation. There is a Wikipedia in Northern Sami. (se.) To the last data available (which is 20-30 years old), there are about 10-11 samic languages. These languages form two or three large groups; languages within the group are mutually understandable, those from another group need a lot of training/ exercise. Some of the languages had as little as 20 speakers (at the time the data was collected, that is either 1993 or 2002). In total, there were about 25.000 speakers of Samic languages; about 60% of them also understood Northern Sami. I could now argue that the about 7.000 people who did not understand Northern Sami, would proably not be able to profit from Northern Sami Wikipedia, and that Northern Sami Wikipedia should be closed down... And yes, ISP 639 has 11 (3-letter) codes for the different Sami Dialects. Different Sami dialects are recognised minority languages in Finland, Norway, and Sweden. Lets now assume that we capture 5% of the Sami people with our project. This would make almost 2.000 potential editors. Closing down Northern Sami would be amlost painless, yet, some people at the foundation consider Wikipedia to have a mission. Even if only very little money is spent on Northern Sami Wikipedia, its editor is much more valuable...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 18:03, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
==Survey==
*{{s}} closing it. Simple is more effort than it is worth to maintain. I support maintaining it while we have it, but what it basically is now is a playground for vandals, spambots, LTAs, and people who have been blocked from various other WMF wikis to try to prove that they should be unblocked on their home wiki. It takes up more volunteer time than it provides value. For what it’s worth, en.wikinews is probably a better candidate for closing first, but simple still shouldn’t exist. Also, to the comments above about would we shut down other small language Wikis, well, that's the thing: Simple English isn't a language group. We already have a Wikipedia for English. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 17:17, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong Oppose''' It's viewed by over a half million people daily, has over 130,000 articles, and provides useful content for many. I see no reason to close it, and the vandal/LTA issue is managed without issue. There are vandals on all Wikipedias; it's no reason to warrant closing an entire project. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 17:49, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**It is when it causes disruption to the entire movement. Simple is a breeding ground for the worst parts of the internet. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 17:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Saying that it's a "breeding ground for the worst parts of the internet" is exaggerating the issue exponentially. It is not causing enough disruption to warrant closing the project. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 17:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::::Also keep in mind that although some LTA's may use it to vandalize people's talk pages and harass them, if this project is closed because of it the main effect will be the exact opposite of WP:DENY, as it'll give the LTA's a sense of victory, and all they'll do is move to another wiki. Just yesterday, I blocked an account on simple.wikipedia and they began harassing me by editing my commons and cy.wiki talk pages. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:43, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::'''comment''' view count in this context is pretty meaningless and should be taken with a grain of salt. Look at the spambot filters for any given project. [[User:Chrissymad|Chrissymad]] ([[User talk:Chrissymad|talk]]) 17:52, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Strong oppose''' — community is active, wiki can be useful for English starters. '''[[User:Marshmallych|M]]''' ''[[User talk:Marshmallych|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/Marshmallych|c]]'' 17:57, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}}. Very much for the reasons provided. I appreciate that editors have invested a lot of time building it, but in my opinion it has been time wasted. [[User:ToastButterToast|ToastButterToast]] ([[User talk:ToastButterToast|talk]]) 17:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Could I ask why this time is wasted? There are dozens of of other Wikipedias with a lot of volunteer time spent on it and mostly all of them have less of an audience than the SEW. Are you suggesting that closing down the Simple English Wikipedia, which will free up about 20 editors, is worth it? [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:02, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}} closing it. I've dabbled in Simple here and there and I've found it's highly inconsistent. What language is "simple" versus language that's, I don't know, overly complex? The spirit behind the idea was wonderful, but what's there is really just a mishmash of articles that aren't as well-written, detailed, or comprehensive as their enwiki counterparts, ''as an inherent limitation imposed by simplicity''. Eventually, when constructing an article in "simple" English, you reach a point where you either sacrifice complex details due to the limited vocabulary, or sacrifice simplicity in the interest of content. Compare for example [[:simple:Mourning dove]] (a "very good article") with [[:en:Mourning dove]] (also a featured article) - the two are practically indistinguishable, except that some of the language has been simplified in simplewiki, but not to the point that you'd expect a reader in Simple's target audience would not still have difficulty understanding the material. And once you get to that point, why not just direct that development to enwiki?
:On the other hand, the effort of creating a wiki that's easy to use on the project side is magnificent, and I do hope that at least some of the simplified terminology makes its way into enwiki. All of the pages linked from [[simple:Wikipedia:Rules]] are fantastic. [[User:Ivanvector|Ivanvector]] ([[User talk:Ivanvector|talk]]) 18:00, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::The article [[:simple:Mourning dove]] is in Simple English. Put the pages side-by-side, and you'll notice the distinct difference in phrasing and linking. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 18:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' closing. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 18:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - This isn't a zero-sum game in terms of resources. There is an active community of volunteers maintaining simplewp, and there are very little WMF or global community resources that need to be expended on maintaining it. It's true that simple English isn't a language, but I'm not concerned about that since the project has a dedicated community and reader base. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 18:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**But its not being maintained... That's the problem. It basically exists for LTAs to create accounts and harass people and a place for people who have been blocked in their home wikis to go and be toxic in hopes of getting unblocked later. None of that is good for the movement. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 18:20, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
***Closing the project won't resolve the problem - LTAs would just go to other wikis to create accounts and do the harassment, etc. This is not specific to simplewiki. Whether or not it's maintained, there are several sysops in the project and they should have an idea about this. -★- [[User:PlyrStar93|'''PlyrStar93''']] →[[User_talk:PlyrStar93|Message me. ]]← 18:36, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
****Yes; simple does a relatively good job compared with some other projects (*cough* enwikiversity *cough*) when dealing with the enwiki-banned crowd. Deleting simple won't remove that problem. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 19:00, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - While it is a niche project, it has it's place, especially for articles on the technical side. [[User:Tazerdadog|Tazerdadog]] ([[User talk:Tazerdadog|talk]]) 18:22, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}}, sadly. There are too many examples where it has been used to push a POV rejected here, with no real notice or oversight. [[User:JzG|JzG]] ([[User talk:JzG|talk]]) 18:41, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*:Could you provide an example, please? - If there are many, finding one shouldn't be difficult...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 18:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}}--[[User:Ozzie10aaaa|Ozzie10aaaa]] ([[User talk:Ozzie10aaaa|talk]]) 18:45, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' closure of an active project. It’s well-used and the apparent issues about LTA doesn’t mean it needs closing. [[User:Aiken drum|Aiken drum]] ([[User talk:Aiken drum|talk]]) 18:53, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Without firmly dissucssed RFC on proposed merger. Closing the project to me would also send the wrong message to potential ESOL contributors. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 18:55, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''': per Vermont and Ajraddatz, this would be the closure of an active project that receives enough traffic to sustain itself. I fail to see a purpose behind that. [[User:Javert2113|Javert2113]] ([[User talk:Javert2113|talk]]) 18:58, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' If it isn’t getting through to it’s target audience then the solution is to ask the WMF for help in raising its progfile, not to shut it down. If there is a serious problem with trolls and LTA wingnuts to the extent that the local admin corps can’t handle it, the project should consider using flagged revisions as a solution. [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]] ([[User talk:Beeblebrox|talk]]) 19:02, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Weak oppose''' I think the points made by Piotrus are very good, as same with Ivanvector, but I think, all in all, SEW still has its place, and a legitimate one for sure. It could do with some TLC, but not closing. [[User:My name is not dave|My name is not dave]] ([[User talk:My name is not dave|talk]]) 19:17, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The SEW could use a lot of work, but it's not a net negative. I don't think closing it is necessary at this point. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 19:31, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' if it needs improvement, let's suggest how to improve it. This reminds me of an AFD where the principle vote to delete is "I don't like it". With 500,000 hits a day, it's far from dead (unlike, say, Wikinews). And like AFD, we can simply work on improving it rather than consigning it to the annals of history. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 19:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support merge''' – The key quality of Simple English wp is to offer an easily-accessible summary of each topic, rather than the comprehensive, and sometimes dense, en-wiki articles. Compare this to the lede section of an enwiki article, which when well-written should effectively convey the essentials about the subject matter. A reader can skim Wikipedia and get a fairly basic understanding of anything by just reading the lede sections. In that spirit, I would very much support the OP's suggestion of a new tab in enwiki that would show the "simple" version of the article. This could be edited together with the main article, provided some technical markup mechanism is devised (a few templates and scripts could probably do the job without changing mediawiki code). This would elegantly resolve all issues:
:# More visibility for the simple-English versions of articles;
:# Harnessing volunteer work by Simple English editors;
:# Incentivizing the general population of English-language editors to keep simple-English versions up to date;
:# Easier policing thanks to advanced anti-vandalism tools and legion of admins working on enwp.
:In summary, a merge looks beneficial to everybody. [[User:JFG|JFG]] ([[User talk:JFG|talk]]) 19:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*{{s}} closing. Idea is fine, but execution problematic (as usual). —[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] [[User_Talk:Beetstra|T]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|C]] (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 19:50, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
** [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/I_love_socking]. —[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] [[User_Talk:Beetstra|T]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|C]] (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 20:28, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Blocked. Thanks for reporting it. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 20:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - The project fills an important niche. If it suffers from lack of visibility, per [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]], deletion is not the solution. As with '''any''' wiki, there are problems, some unique to the project. However, closing the project would be tantamount to shooting the horse over a thrown shoe. You can supplement whatever anecdote your feel most comfortable with. The wisdom still applies. Lets address and improve or correct the problems. This, of course, will require those saying there are problems to specifically identify the problems they refer to. [[User:Operator873|Operator873]] ([[User talk:Operator873|talk]]) 19:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose-ish''' — I like having a simple version of articles available for when I don't understand the normal one. I don't normally read it, but when I have needed it it has been helpful to me. Changing it to a tab of EnWP could work (since I'm just a reader, not an editor there, I don't really care one way or the other regarding where the content is, as long as I can read it when I want it). [[User:Goldenshimmer|Goldenshimmer]] ([[User talk:Goldenshimmer|talk]]) 20:07, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support closure''' No obvious supporting evidence of significant historical development, no likelihood of future development, project is a liability of lower quality information due to lack of critical mass of participants and engagement, failure to establish consensus for what "Simple English" manual of style the project will use among various competing off-wiki standards, highly defensive community culture which keeps the project inaccessible for editors as a way to protect the project (for example, no WikiProjects or community meeting spaces allowed), high likelihood of dissatisfaction among participants, low recruitment rate of new regular editors, no plan for change in the foreseeable future. We do have prospect of reform for a next generation project and that is the use of Wikidata to automatically translate structured data basics into simple Wikipedias of all languages. I would advise anyone who wants to advance the future of plain language Wikimedia projects to engage with Wikidata as the most stable, highest impact use of time and labor. Wikidata has a high satisfaction rate among participants. The Reasonator Wikidata / Wikipedia prototype is very encouraging as a Simple English Wikipedia replacement. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 20:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Lean oppose''' I feel arguments for closing could be applied to the other wikis patrolled by [[Small Wiki Monitoring Team]]. I could be convinced to support the closure if there were more argument about why the reasons for closure are unique to the simple English wikipedia. [[User:Billhpike|Billhpike]] ([[User talk:Billhpike|talk]]) 20:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**Sure: Simple English is not an actual language, and we already have a Wikipedia in English that doesn’t have any of these problems. It provides no actual value while consuming significant global resources. This is different from other small projects where they are the only Wikipedias in their language. Simple is a fine concept that doesn’t work. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 21:01, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
**:How do you define ''language''? - There is a Wikipedia in Afrikans, which can also be seen a version of Dutch...--[[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 21:42, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
***:It's not supposed to be ''a language''. See [[simple:Simple_English_Wikipedia]].[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 22:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' — Just two days ago I wrote, not knowing if this proposal, that simple-English Wikipedia is neither read, edited, updated nor even serves the purpose that it intends to [[:en:Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles#Digression:_simple.wikipedia.org]]. The lack of editors and lack of community, as well as lack of interested readership causes its articles to be out of date, and in many cases of very poor quality. Neither does it adequately serve the purpose it intends to serve, with articles only marginally more readable, and oftentimes less readable than leads on en-wiki.
:''simple-wiki risks acting as an excuse to deprioritize clarity and unambiguous expression on en-wiki'', which may seem unintuitive, but is a defence I've come across far too many times. '''Closing simple-wiki could bring editors versed in writing simply back to en-wiki, and would send a clear signal that Wikipedia is for everyone''', not just those who can read at a post-graduate level.
:We need simple writing, and that is why we don't need simple-wiki. Wikipedia's articles vary, some more amenable to simple language, but all can benefit from the work of editors who can express themselves tersely. '''Even very complex topics need well written and easy to understand introductions.''' [[User:CFCF|Carl Fredrik]][[User talk:CFCF| 💌]] [[Special:EmailUser/CFCF|📧]] 22:04, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::If closed, the amount of editors it would bring to en-wiki is insignificant, if any. As you said, there is a very small editing force, and thus articles, especially in constantly updating fields like medicine, are not always up to date. But, outdatedness is not a reason to close a project; if it were, the majority of small wikis would have reason to be closed. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Seems harmless. I don't think that closing Simple would automatically mean that its contributors would take up some other Wikimedia project. Some might leave the project altogether, including some who currently work on multiple projects. I would think, perhaps, that a reasonable alternative would be to limit the ''coverage'' of the project to, say, a hundred-thousand vital topics in clearly defined areas, to avoid spamming of a less patrolled project. [[User:BD2412|''BD2412'']] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 22:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. It's #51 on the list of Wikipedias. Are we also shutting down the smaller ones? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 22:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

==Discussion==
*'''Note''' I have posted notice on the administrators noticeboard and village pumps of the English Wikipedia as this proposal would affect it (by diverting editors from simple to en.wiki) and it is the main Wikipedia for the English language, and thus participants from that language group would likely be inteterested. See: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)&diff=prev&oldid=846584293], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=846584217], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)&diff=prev&oldid=846584293], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Centralized_discussion&diff=prev&oldid=846589116]. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 17:31, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Note''' I have notified the English Wikipedia Medicine WikiProject at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#Proposal_for_closing_Simple_English_Wikipedia], as they have had some interaction with SEW in the past. --[[User:Mark viking|Mark viking]] ([[User talk:Mark viking|talk]]) 18:38, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I am very much in between on this. I think there are many reasons that this project should be closed but I also think that the concept has significant value. What I would like to see come from this is ''meaningful change'' within the community itself and administration. Simple, at it's heart is meant for readers, just like every other project. The content should be simplified for all the people it is meant to target. The problem is, the project is not attracting editors to bring that content and instead attracts all those mentioned above. This isn't about LTAs or vandals but I think the downfall of Simple Wikipedia has been the intense focus on the bureaucracy of it, where so much of the community and time is spent making the backend editing "simpler" and is being used as a stepping stone for editing that wouldn't be accepted elsewhere. Specifically, I think all of the backend stuff, the things that the target audience (readers) will never see or know exists, should mirror that of it's successful sister projects, meaning policies, guidelines, to an extent. This, in my opinion, will help attract competent editors again and get rid of that [[en:Mean Girls|"she doesn't even go here"]] attitude. If I am mistaken about the core purpose of this, I think the whole thing needs to be re-valuated as ultimately, this is an extension of an encyclopedia and ultimately the output is content and if we want to encourage people who would otherwise struggle, specifically due to language barriers or other issues on larger projects to edit, perhaps there needs to be a new project, similar to Wikiversity or test wiki. [[User:Chrissymad|Chrissymad]] ([[User talk:Chrissymad|talk]]) 19:35, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - I (and others) have voted above based on the merits of simplewiki, rather than the merging proposal given in the introduction. That proposal might be worth exploring, but should really be done on enwiki. A project to create "executive summaries" of pages could be started on enwiki and tested to see how it works. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 19:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. One of the problems of simple English is that it is actually very difficult to write well about a complex topic in simple English, but that is not a reason to shut it down. · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 20:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Question'''. Is the claim that closing simple will bring its editors to en: based on anything beyond wishful thinking? · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 20:08, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*:I know that for many editors on simplewiki, the fact that it isn't enwiki is a feature not a bug. Not everyone likes the bureaucracy and drama associated with a large project. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 22:13, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::It's more than wishful thinking, in my opinion. Ajrddatz is completely right; many of SEW's editors prefer it due to the lack of bureaucracy and drama that is plentiful in enwp. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|talk]]) 22:21, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

*'''Question''': Was a notice of this proposal posted anywhere on Simple English Wikipedia? I don't go there much, but there is nothing on the main page there. [[User:RudolfRed|RudolfRed]] ([[User talk:RudolfRed|talk]]) 20:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
::Yes. [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Simple_talk#There's_a_new_proposal_to_close_down_Simple_English_Wikipedia here] [[User:Operator873|Operator873]] ([[User talk:Operator873|talk]]) 20:33, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I haven't decided to support or oppose this proposal yet, but I have been looking over the Simple English Wikipedia, where I had never made any edits until today (in over 5 years of editing on this account). What I have found does not do much to convince me that the project should be kept, even though I have become skeptical of claims that "we need to delete everything!" since someone tried, unsuccessfully, to delete all portals on en.wiki (many of you of course know what I'm talking about). One of the biggest problems is that the Simple wiki is not very active, so vandalism can sometimes sit unchanged and unnoticed for much longer than it should (or would on en.wikipedia, or other much more active projects). This even happened over a decade ago and they covered it on NPR. [https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91371632 Apparently the Great Barrier Reef was discovered by 'Ben Dover']. This is what people need to bear in mind when someone says "what's the harm, so long as some people use it?" The answer is that it provides a relatively save haven for trolls, vandals, and good-faith users who don't understand how to create well-written and -sourced articles, all of whom can and do roam far too freely, often without anyone cleaning up their messes, on a project that is not very active. Simple also has the side effect of inviting [https://herald-review.com/blogs/decaturade/excerpts-from-simple-english-wikipedia/article_f4bf9e57-b1d5-5e16-bbc1-ecf0920e091d.html mockery] for its numerous poorly-written articles. I am also sympathetic to the idea of merging Simple with en.wikipedia.org, because English Wikipedia articles should be written simply enough for non-experts to understand them anyway (though I realize that's not quite the same thing as writing an article to be read by ESL students/children). But maybe it'd be a good idea to add a "simplified version" button as mentioned above by some users. [[User:Everymorning|Everymorning]] ([[User talk:Everymorning|talk]]) 21:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Meta:Babel

2018-05-02T16:01:18Z

LeadSongDog: /* Domain squatter dangers being facilitated by this and other wikis */ punct

{{Babel header|uselang= {{uselang}}}}
{{Autoarchive resolved section | age = 1 | archive = '((FULLPAGENAME))/Archives/((year))-((month:##))' | timeout = 30}}

== RemexHTML replacing Tidy ==

[[phab:T192386|RemexHTML]] will probably be enabled on Meta 2 May. [[mw:RemexHtml]] is a parsing library. It [[mw:Parsing/Replacing Tidy|replaces Tidy]]. You can [[mw:Parsing/Replacing Tidy/FAQ#What will editors need to do?|read more]], but if this doesn't say you anything at all, you can probably ignore this. /[[User:Johan (WMF)|Johan (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Johan (WMF)|talk]]) 12:26, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

: Hello [[User:Johan (WMF)|Johan (WMF)]]. According to [[Special:LintErrors]] we have ~500,000 high priority errors. While it is certainly not okay on our part, can't we just wait until we have them fixed in order not to break a so high number of pages? @all: if somebody knows how to handle this stuff and could lend a hand (ie: a bot, a script, etc.) it'd be appreciated. Thanks, —[[User:MarcoAurelio|MarcoAurelio]] ([[User talk:MarcoAurelio|talk]]) 16:08, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
::Ping [[User:SSastry (WMF)]]. /[[User:Johan (WMF)|Johan (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Johan (WMF)|talk]]) 16:11, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
:: I responded on the [[phab:T192386|phab task]]. [[User:SSastry (WMF)|SSastry (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SSastry (WMF)|talk]]) 17:47, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{ping|MarcoAurelio}} BR filed at [[Meta:Requests for bot status/Fluxbot 3]]. — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 23:07, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Xaosflux}} Approved on my side, unless people object. Thanks, —[[User:MarcoAurelio|MarcoAurelio]] ([[User talk:MarcoAurelio|talk]]) 09:42, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

==AbuseFilter False Positive==

Not exactly sure where else to place this on Meta, but for some reason, I got hit by an AbuseFilter for placing [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:96.63.178.113&diff=prev&oldid=17967709 this warning] on an anon's talk page. Seems kind of odd. [[User:OhKayeSierra|OhKayeSierra]] ([[User talk:OhKayeSierra|talk]]) 06:23, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{Re|OhKayeSierra}} don't worry about it. For note, it wasn't for placing the warning, it was for you attempting to "remove it" when you were trying to correct it. — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 13:15, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

== Domain squatter dangers being facilitated by this and other wikis ==

External links such as <nowiki>[http://www.nupedia.com Nupedia]</nowiki> have an inherent danger: when the domain changes ownership, a user clicking the link is taken unsuspecting to a site controlled by the new owner. This creates a whole class of user vulnerabilities to malware. Leaving these stale links in place, as at [[Help:Wikitext examples]] both facilitates these attacks and encourages the domainjackers. Apparently the blacklist process is inappropriate for dealing with these, as explained at [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Spam_blacklist&oldid=prev&diff=17987726 this diff], but a process is evidently needed to detect and disable such stale links. Ideally that process should function for all wikis, at least those that want it.[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 14:12, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Meta:Babel

2018-05-02T14:12:07Z

LeadSongDog: /* Domain squatter dangers being facilitated by this and other wikis */ new section

{{Babel header|uselang= {{uselang}}}}
{{Autoarchive resolved section | age = 1 | archive = '((FULLPAGENAME))/Archives/((year))-((month:##))' | timeout = 30}}

== RemexHTML replacing Tidy ==

[[phab:T192386|RemexHTML]] will probably be enabled on Meta 2 May. [[mw:RemexHtml]] is a parsing library. It [[mw:Parsing/Replacing Tidy|replaces Tidy]]. You can [[mw:Parsing/Replacing Tidy/FAQ#What will editors need to do?|read more]], but if this doesn't say you anything at all, you can probably ignore this. /[[User:Johan (WMF)|Johan (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Johan (WMF)|talk]]) 12:26, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

: Hello [[User:Johan (WMF)|Johan (WMF)]]. According to [[Special:LintErrors]] we have ~500,000 high priority errors. While it is certainly not okay on our part, can't we just wait until we have them fixed in order not to break a so high number of pages? @all: if somebody knows how to handle this stuff and could lend a hand (ie: a bot, a script, etc.) it'd be appreciated. Thanks, —[[User:MarcoAurelio|MarcoAurelio]] ([[User talk:MarcoAurelio|talk]]) 16:08, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
::Ping [[User:SSastry (WMF)]]. /[[User:Johan (WMF)|Johan (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Johan (WMF)|talk]]) 16:11, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
:: I responded on the [[phab:T192386|phab task]]. [[User:SSastry (WMF)|SSastry (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SSastry (WMF)|talk]]) 17:47, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{ping|MarcoAurelio}} BR filed at [[Meta:Requests for bot status/Fluxbot 3]]. — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 23:07, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Xaosflux}} Approved on my side, unless people object. Thanks, —[[User:MarcoAurelio|MarcoAurelio]] ([[User talk:MarcoAurelio|talk]]) 09:42, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

==AbuseFilter False Positive==

Not exactly sure where else to place this on Meta, but for some reason, I got hit by an AbuseFilter for placing [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:96.63.178.113&diff=prev&oldid=17967709 this warning] on an anon's talk page. Seems kind of odd. [[User:OhKayeSierra|OhKayeSierra]] ([[User talk:OhKayeSierra|talk]]) 06:23, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{Re|OhKayeSierra}} don't worry about it. For note, it wasn't for placing the warning, it was for you attempting to "remove it" when you were trying to correct it. — [[User:Xaosflux|xaosflux]] [[User talk:Xaosflux|Talk]] 13:15, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

== Domain squatter dangers being facilitated by this and other wikis ==

External links such as <nowiki>[http://www.nupedia.com Nupedia]</nowiki> have an inherent danger: when the domain changes ownership a user clicking the link is taken, unsuspecting, to a site controlled by the new owner. This creates a whole class of user vulnerabilities to malware. Leaving these stale links in place, as at [[Help:Wikitext examples]] both facilitates these attacks and encourages the domainjackers. Apparently the blacklist process is inappropriate for dealing with these, as explained at [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Spam_blacklist&oldid=prev&diff=17987726 this diff], but a process is evidently needed to detect and disable such stale links. Ideally that process should function for all wikis, at least those that want it.[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 14:12, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Spam blacklist

2018-05-02T13:46:09Z

LeadSongDog: /* nupedia.com */ thx

{{autotranslate|base=Template:Spam blacklist header}}
{{Autoarchive resolved section | age = 7 | archive = ((FULLPAGENAME))/Archives/((year))-((month:##)) | level = 3 | timeout = 15 }}

==Proposed additions==
{{messagebox
|text=This section is for proposing that a website be blacklisted; add new entries at the ''bottom'' of the section, using the basic URL so that there is no link (example.com, not http://www.example.com). '''Provide links demonstrating widespread spamming by multiple users on multiple wikis.''' Completed requests will be marked as {{tl|added}} or {{tl|declined}} and archived.
}}

===Couple of recent Commons spam links===
While I found these Commons from the link summaries I see evidence of persistent spamming on the ecosia one. The bestinfo4health is simply unnecessary and has been spammed. Thoughts/actions welcome. Thanks --[[User:Herbythyme|Herby]] [[User talk:Herbythyme|talk thyme]] 11:34, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

{{LinkSummary|ecosia.zendesk.com}}
{{LinkSummary|bestinfo4health.com}}

:{{Declined|separately blacklisted one}}. blacklisted the second individually, whereas the ecosia.zendesk domain is currently used elsewhere. maybe blacklist it locally at Commons?  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 01:53, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

===firebaseapp.com===
{{LinkSummary|firebaseapp.com}}
Seeing some abuse of subdomains of firebaseapp.com by spambots. On reviewing the additions in general it would appear that all links have been removed, even where they are not spambot additions. It would seem that the wikipedia communities are not considering this an authoritative link. We can manage this through the spamblacklist, or we can look to manage it with an abuse filter. What do the community think is fairest?  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 01:44, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

===Three pirate/spam movie sites===
{{LinkSummary|xxxhds.com}}
{{LinkSummary|netflixhds.com}}
{{LinkSummary|3xhds.com}}
all being contributed by spambots  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 02:19, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

:{{rto|billinghurst}} {{Added}} to [[Spam blacklist]]. -- — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 02:19, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

===nupedia.com===
{{LinkSummary|nupedia.com}}
Numerous longstanding links to wikipedia's ancestor now connect to a domain-jacked webpage. Whether it is malicious or not, it is definitely dangerous to those who unsuspectingly click through. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 21:11, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

:{{rto|LeadSongDog}} {{Declined|ineffective management process}} as blacklisting does not fix the links or effect them in anyway, it only affects the addition. If addition isn't happening, then blacklisting is pointless. If there are bad/dangerous links, then they should be removed, or altered in line with the local wikis rules.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 21:24, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
::Ok, so where ''are'' the rules here on Meta? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 21:33, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
:::Local matters are better addressed at [[Meta:Babel]].  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 23:16, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
::::Thank you.[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 13:45, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
:(note to self) I should add this to the request for the upgrade of the spam blacklist - a capability to disable existing links and/or an option reinstate the capability that pages can not be saved when an offending link is there (the latter enforcing the removal). --[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] [[User_Talk:Beetstra|T]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|C]] (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 05:25, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

=== copyvio spamming ===
{{LinkSummary|deadpool2ful.com}}
{{LinkSummary|tvhds.com}}
{{LinkSummary|filmhds.com}}
—[[User:MarcoAurelio|MarcoAurelio]] ([[User talk:MarcoAurelio|talk]]) 13:02, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

: {{added}}. Meta, Commons & English Wikipedia affected so far. —[[User:MarcoAurelio|MarcoAurelio]] ([[User talk:MarcoAurelio|talk]]) 13:12, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

== Proposed additions (Bot reported) ==
{{messagebox
|text='''This section is for domains which have been added to multiple wikis as observed by a bot.'''

These are automated reports, please check the records and the link thoroughly, it may report good links! For some more info, see [[Spam blacklist/Help#COIBot_reports]]. Reports will automatically be archived by the bot when they get [[:Category:Stale XWiki reports|stale]] (less than 5 links reported, which have not been edited in the last 7 days, and where the last editor is [[User:COIBot|COIBot]]).

;Sysops
*If the report contains links to ''less than 5'' wikis, then only add it when it is really spam
*Otherwise just revert the link-additions, and close the report; closed reports will be reopened when spamming continues
*To close a report, change the LinkStatus template to closed ({{tlx|LinkStatus|closed}})
*Please place any notes in the discussion section ''below the HTML comment''
}}

===[[User:COIBot/XWiki|COIBot]]===
The LinkWatchers report domains meeting the following criteria:
* When a user mainly adds this link, and the link has not been used too much, and this user adds the link to more than 2 wikis
* When a user mainly adds links on one server, and links on the server have not been used too much, and this user adds the links to more than 2 wikis
* If ALL links are added by IPs, and the link is added to more than 1 wiki
* If a small range of IPs have a preference for this link (but it may also have been added by other users), and the link is added to more than 1 wiki.

{{-}}{{hidden|1=COIBot's currently open XWiki reports|2={{User:COIBot/XWiki}}}}{{-}}

== Proposed removals ==
{{messagebox
|text=This section is for proposing that a website be ''un''listed; '''please add new entries at the ''bottom'' of the section'''.

Remember to provide the specific domain blacklisted, links to the articles they are used in or useful to, and arguments in favour of unlisting. Completed requests will be marked as {{tlx|removed}} or {{tlx|declined}} and archived.

See also [[Spam blacklist/recurring requests|/recurring requests]] for repeatedly propo
sed (and refused) removals.

Notes:
* The addition or removal of a domain from the blacklist is '''not a vote'''; please do not bold the first words in statements.
* This page is for the removal of domains from the global blacklist, not for removal of domains from the blacklists of individual wikis. For those requests please take your discussion to the pertinent wiki, where such requests would be made at '''Mediawiki talk:Spam-blacklist''' at that wiki. [[toollabs:searchsbl|Search spamlists]] {{smaller|— remember to enter any relevant language code}}
}}

==eltoro.com for their Wikipedia page==
{{LinkSummary|eltoro.com}}
Hello, i have tried to add website url of El Toro to the their Wikipedia page located at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Toro_(IP_targeting_provider). It showing an error, that's why i came here. I'd like to add this eltoro.com as a official website in the infobox. Is there anything you can help? [[Special:Contributions/202.136.88.29|202.136.88.29]]

{{declined|no global block}} on the domain. The domain looks to be locally blacklisted at Commons and English Wikipedia. Any action needs to be addressed directly to each wiki.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 08:40, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{Closing}}  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 08:40, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

== Troubleshooting and problems ==
{{messagebox
|text=This section is for comments related to problems with the blacklist (such as incorrect syntax or entries not being blocked), or problems saving a page because of a blacklisted link. This is ''not'' the section to request that an entry be unlisted (see '''Proposed removals''' above).
}}
==Discussion==
{{messagebox
|text= This section is for discussion of Spam blacklist issues among other users.
}}

Talk:Spam blacklist

2018-05-01T21:33:54Z

LeadSongDog: /* nupedia.com */

{{autotranslate|base=Template:Spam blacklist header}}
{{Autoarchive resolved section | age = 7 | archive = ((FULLPAGENAME))/Archives/((year))-((month:##)) | level = 3 | timeout = 15 }}

==Proposed additions==
{{messagebox
|text=This section is for proposing that a website be blacklisted; add new entries at the ''bottom'' of the section, using the basic URL so that there is no link (example.com, not http://www.example.com). '''Provide links demonstrating widespread spamming by multiple users on multiple wikis.''' Completed requests will be marked as {{tl|added}} or {{tl|declined}} and archived.
}}

===Couple of recent Commons spam links===
While I found these Commons from the link summaries I see evidence of persistent spamming on the ecosia one. The bestinfo4health is simply unnecessary and has been spammed. Thoughts/actions welcome. Thanks --[[User:Herbythyme|Herby]] [[User talk:Herbythyme|talk thyme]] 11:34, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

{{LinkSummary|ecosia.zendesk.com}}
{{LinkSummary|bestinfo4health.com}}

:{{Declined|separately blacklisted one}}. blacklisted the second individually, whereas the ecosia.zendesk domain is currently used elsewhere. maybe blacklist it locally at Commons?  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 01:53, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

===firebaseapp.com===
{{LinkSummary|firebaseapp.com}}
Seeing some abuse of subdomains of firebaseapp.com by spambots. On reviewing the additions in general it would appear that all links have been removed, even where they are not spambot additions. It would seem that the wikipedia communities are not considering this an authoritative link. We can manage this through the spamblacklist, or we can look to manage it with an abuse filter. What do the community think is fairest?  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 01:44, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

===Three pirate/spam movie sites===
{{LinkSummary|xxxhds.com}}
{{LinkSummary|netflixhds.com}}
{{LinkSummary|3xhds.com}}
all being contributed by spambots  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 02:19, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

:{{rto|billinghurst}} {{Added}} to [[Spam blacklist]]. -- — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 02:19, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

===nupedia.com===
{{LinkSummary|nupedia.com}}
Numerous longstanding links to wikipedia's ancestor now connect to a domain-jacked webpage. Whether it is malicious or not, it is definitely dangerous to those who unsuspectingly click through. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 21:11, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

:{{rto|LeadSongDog}} {{Declined|ineffective management process}} as blacklisting does not fix the links or effect them in anyway, it only affects the addition. If addition isn't happening, then blacklisting is pointless. If there are bad/dangerous links, then they should be removed, or altered in line with the local wikis rules.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 21:24, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
::Ok, so where ''are'' the rules here on Meta? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 21:33, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

== Proposed additions (Bot reported) ==
{{messagebox
|text='''This section is for domains which have been added to multiple wikis as observed by a bot.'''

These are automated reports, please check the records and the link thoroughly, it may report good links! For some more info, see [[Spam blacklist/Help#COIBot_reports]]. Reports will automatically be archived by the bot when they get [[:Category:Stale XWiki reports|stale]] (less than 5 links reported, which have not been edited in the last 7 days, and where the last editor is [[User:COIBot|COIBot]]).

;Sysops
*If the report contains links to ''less than 5'' wikis, then only add it when it is really spam
*Otherwise just revert the link-additions, and close the report; closed reports will be reopened when spamming continues
*To close a report, change the LinkStatus template to closed ({{tlx|LinkStatus|closed}})
*Please place any notes in the discussion section ''below the HTML comment''
}}

===[[User:COIBot/XWiki|COIBot]]===
The LinkWatchers report domains meeting the following criteria:
* When a user mainly adds this link, and the link has not been used too much, and this user adds the link to more than 2 wikis
* When a user mainly adds links on one server, and links on the server have not been used too much, and this user adds the links to more than 2 wikis
* If ALL links are added by IPs, and the link is added to more than 1 wiki
* If a small range of IPs have a preference for this link (but it may also have been added by other users), and the link is added to more than 1 wiki.

{{-}}{{hidden|1=COIBot's currently open XWiki reports|2={{User:COIBot/XWiki}}}}{{-}}

== Proposed removals ==
{{messagebox
|text=This section is for proposing that a website be ''un''listed; '''please add new entries at the ''bottom'' of the section'''.

Remember to provide the specific domain blacklisted, links to the articles they are used in or useful to, and arguments in favour of unlisting. Completed requests will be marked as {{tlx|removed}} or {{tlx|declined}} and archived.

See also [[Spam blacklist/recurring requests|/recurring requests]] for repeatedly propo
sed (and refused) removals.

Notes:
* The addition or removal of a domain from the blacklist is '''not a vote'''; please do not bold the first words in statements.
* This page is for the removal of domains from the global blacklist, not for removal of domains from the blacklists of individual wikis. For those requests please take your discussion to the pertinent wiki, where such requests would be made at '''Mediawiki talk:Spam-blacklist''' at that wiki. [[toollabs:searchsbl|Search spamlists]] {{smaller|— remember to enter any relevant language code}}
}}

==eltoro.com for their Wikipedia page==
{{LinkSummary|eltoro.com}}
Hello, i have tried to add website url of El Toro to the their Wikipedia page located at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Toro_(IP_targeting_provider). It showing an error, that's why i came here. I'd like to add this eltoro.com as a official website in the infobox. Is there anything you can help? [[Special:Contributions/202.136.88.29|202.136.88.29]]

{{declined|no global block}} on the domain. The domain looks to be locally blacklisted at Commons and English Wikipedia. Any action needs to be addressed directly to each wiki.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 08:40, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{Closing}}  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 08:40, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

== Troubleshooting and problems ==
{{messagebox
|text=This section is for comments related to problems with the blacklist (such as incorrect syntax or entries not being blocked), or problems saving a page because of a blacklisted link. This is ''not'' the section to request that an entry be unlisted (see '''Proposed removals''' above).
}}
==Discussion==
{{messagebox
|text= This section is for discussion of Spam blacklist issues among other users.
}}

Talk:Spam blacklist

2018-05-01T21:11:51Z

LeadSongDog: /* Proposed additions */ nupedia

{{autotranslate|base=Template:Spam blacklist header}}
{{Autoarchive resolved section | age = 7 | archive = ((FULLPAGENAME))/Archives/((year))-((month:##)) | level = 3 | timeout = 15 }}

==Proposed additions==
{{messagebox
|text=This section is for proposing that a website be blacklisted; add new entries at the ''bottom'' of the section, using the basic URL so that there is no link (example.com, not http://www.example.com). '''Provide links demonstrating widespread spamming by multiple users on multiple wikis.''' Completed requests will be marked as {{tl|added}} or {{tl|declined}} and archived.
}}

===Couple of recent Commons spam links===
While I found these Commons from the link summaries I see evidence of persistent spamming on the ecosia one. The bestinfo4health is simply unnecessary and has been spammed. Thoughts/actions welcome. Thanks --[[User:Herbythyme|Herby]] [[User talk:Herbythyme|talk thyme]] 11:34, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

{{LinkSummary|ecosia.zendesk.com}}
{{LinkSummary|bestinfo4health.com}}

:{{Declined|separately blacklisted one}}. blacklisted the second individually, whereas the ecosia.zendesk domain is currently used elsewhere. maybe blacklist it locally at Commons?  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 01:53, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

===firebaseapp.com===
{{LinkSummary|firebaseapp.com}}
Seeing some abuse of subdomains of firebaseapp.com by spambots. On reviewing the additions in general it would appear that all links have been removed, even where they are not spambot additions. It would seem that the wikipedia communities are not considering this an authoritative link. We can manage this through the spamblacklist, or we can look to manage it with an abuse filter. What do the community think is fairest?  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 01:44, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

===Three pirate/spam movie sites===
{{LinkSummary|xxxhds.com}}
{{LinkSummary|netflixhds.com}}
{{LinkSummary|3xhds.com}}
all being contributed by spambots  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 02:19, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

:{{rto|billinghurst}} {{Added}} to [[Spam blacklist]]. -- — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 02:19, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

===nupedia.com===
{{LinkSummary|nupedia.com}}
Numerous longstanding links to wikipedia's ancestor now connect to a domain-jacked webpage. Whether it is malicious or not, it is definitely dangerous to those who unsuspectingly click through. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 21:11, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

== Proposed additions (Bot reported) ==
{{messagebox
|text='''This section is for domains which have been added to multiple wikis as observed by a bot.'''

These are automated reports, please check the records and the link thoroughly, it may report good links! For some more info, see [[Spam blacklist/Help#COIBot_reports]]. Reports will automatically be archived by the bot when they get [[:Category:Stale XWiki reports|stale]] (less than 5 links reported, which have not been edited in the last 7 days, and where the last editor is [[User:COIBot|COIBot]]).

;Sysops
*If the report contains links to ''less than 5'' wikis, then only add it when it is really spam
*Otherwise just revert the link-additions, and close the report; closed reports will be reopened when spamming continues
*To close a report, change the LinkStatus template to closed ({{tlx|LinkStatus|closed}})
*Please place any notes in the discussion section ''below the HTML comment''
}}

===[[User:COIBot/XWiki|COIBot]]===
The LinkWatchers report domains meeting the following criteria:
* When a user mainly adds this link, and the link has not been used too much, and this user adds the link to more than 2 wikis
* When a user mainly adds links on one server, and links on the server have not been used too much, and this user adds the links to more than 2 wikis
* If ALL links are added by IPs, and the link is added to more than 1 wiki
* If a small range of IPs have a preference for this link (but it may also have been added by other users), and the link is added to more than 1 wiki.

{{-}}{{hidden|1=COIBot's currently open XWiki reports|2={{User:COIBot/XWiki}}}}{{-}}

== Proposed removals ==
{{messagebox
|text=This section is for proposing that a website be ''un''listed; '''please add new entries at the ''bottom'' of the section'''.

Remember to provide the specific domain blacklisted, links to the articles they are used in or useful to, and arguments in favour of unlisting. Completed requests will be marked as {{tlx|removed}} or {{tlx|declined}} and archived.

See also [[Spam blacklist/recurring requests|/recurring requests]] for repeatedly propo
sed (and refused) removals.

Notes:
* The addition or removal of a domain from the blacklist is '''not a vote'''; please do not bold the first words in statements.
* This page is for the removal of domains from the global blacklist, not for removal of domains from the blacklists of individual wikis. For those requests please take your discussion to the pertinent wiki, where such requests would be made at '''Mediawiki talk:Spam-blacklist''' at that wiki. [[toollabs:searchsbl|Search spamlists]] {{smaller|— remember to enter any relevant language code}}
}}

==eltoro.com for their Wikipedia page==
{{LinkSummary|eltoro.com}}
Hello, i have tried to add website url of El Toro to the their Wikipedia page located at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Toro_(IP_targeting_provider). It showing an error, that's why i came here. I'd like to add this eltoro.com as a official website in the infobox. Is there anything you can help? [[Special:Contributions/202.136.88.29|202.136.88.29]]

{{declined|no global block}} on the domain. The domain looks to be locally blacklisted at Commons and English Wikipedia. Any action needs to be addressed directly to each wiki.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 08:40, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
:{{Closing}}  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]'' 08:40, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

== Troubleshooting and problems ==
{{messagebox
|text=This section is for comments related to problems with the blacklist (such as incorrect syntax or entries not being blocked), or problems saving a page because of a blacklisted link. This is ''not'' the section to request that an entry be unlisted (see '''Proposed removals''' above).
}}
==Discussion==
{{messagebox
|text= This section is for discussion of Spam blacklist issues among other users.
}}

User talk:Dario (WMF)

2017-08-04T18:48:23Z

LeadSongDog: /* WikiCite etc */ new section

Talk:The Wikipedia Library/1Lib1Ref

2017-04-13T21:50:55Z

LeadSongDog: /* Increasing yield */ new section

==Volunteer help==
We need GLAM-Wiki and TWL coordinators to help achieve broad impact with the campaign. We are looking for help with the following:
*Feedback/improvements to the main campaign page
*Signing up to be a help contact in the "Contact a library leader" section
*Help with internationalization (i.e. adding translation tags, ensuring instructions for language-specific community policies, adding links to maintenance categories or tools for language editions not yet represented, etc)
*Sharing the campaign with Library or Archive partners in your community, and asking them to support it (We can include them as official partners during the week, if their social media team help share the campaign)
*Preparing or encouraging others to write blog posts and social media for the Wikipedia 15 conversation focused on libraries and Wikipedia
*Update GLAM-Wiki Contact pages like https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Contact_us
*Tweeting, lots of tweeting (and retweeting) and sharing on other social media platforms

Please let us know if you plan to do any of these. Thanks![[User:Astinson (WMF)|Astinson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Astinson (WMF)|talk]]) 00:20, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Top [[User:Ikram mhd|Ikram mhd]] ([[User talk:Ikram mhd|talk]]) 23:51, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

== RefToolbar Guide ==

Hi there -- I created this RefToolbar presentation for WikiDay 2015 here in NYC. Folks are welcome to use it. There can never be too many beautifully curated citations!

[[File:2015-07-08-RefToolbar.pdf|thumb|2015-07-08-RefToolbar]]

- Erika aka [[User:BrillLyle|BrillLyle]] ([[User talk:BrillLyle|talk]]) 22:10, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
:{{Ping|BrillLyle}} Per Phoebe's comment below, we are trying to keep the instructions as simple as possible, so it takes ~15-20 minutes to complete the activity. As of right now, I am questioning that speed of learning-> implement. What would be useful, is tweaks for spead/clarification of the existing story. [[User:Astinson (WMF)|Astinson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Astinson (WMF)|talk]]) 16:12, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

::{{Ping|Astinson (WMF)}} If this is a quick training then the PowerPoint I created is obviously too detailed, but if there is a resources section it might be a helpful tool. I don't have any other materials or suggestions -- was only providing this as a resource for editors who might need a quick brushup on the RefToolbar implementation. -- Erika aka [[User:BrillLyle|BrillLyle]] ([[User talk:BrillLyle|talk]]) 00:53, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

== GLAM External Link Templates ==

Also, these might possibly of interest to Librarians....

[[:w:Category:GLAM_external_link_templates|GLAM external link templates]]

'''Example:'''
* [[:w:Template:LoC-MSS]] for Library of Congress Manuscript Division permalinks
: <code><nowiki>{{LoC-MSS|ID|link label}}</nowiki></code>
: An example:
: <code><nowiki>{{LoC-MSS|98084318|Ruth Bader Ginsburg papers}}</nowiki></code>
: displays
: {{LoC-MSS|98084318|Ruth Bader Ginsburg papers}}

-- Erika aka [[User:BrillLyle|BrillLyle]] ([[User talk:BrillLyle|talk]]) 22:15, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
:{{Ping|BrillLyle}} The audience for this event might be a bit too broad. This seems like a great thing to be sharing with the cultural-partners list: people who are more active on Wiki, in organizing these kinds of tools. Do you have a documentation page other than the category? It would be great to have both a process, and some sample outcomes sharable with WIRs and other volunteers and professionals coordinating impact for GLAMs, [[User:Astinson (WMF)|Astinson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Astinson (WMF)|talk]]) 16:21, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
:: {{Ping|Astinson (WMF)}} Agree this is not the audience for this tool; however, again, if there are librarians at GLAM institutions who would like to create these templates, that connection would be invaluable. Each template has a really good set of documentation built into it. I was going to do a Lightning Talk PowerPoint summarizing the typical steps -- although each template can be very different. And as you said above, this is too detailed for this project, so I'm not sure if it would be helpful at this point. I have not had much engagement from other editors in creating these templates although I have tried to reach out to fellow editors and institutional stakeholders. Once the template is made the institutions seem happy but I'm sure the templates are under-deployed. As we have held Wikipedia editathons here in New York City, I've been creating them for each institution, with the only constraint being if their digital assets are set up with unique identifiers in the URLs. As far as event outcomes I don't have sample outcomes beyond listing them in the outcomes of the event pages. I listed this here because it's very library/institution/GLAM friendly and this project seems to dovetail a bit to the templates. Agree it would be great to increase engagement as the templates are very powerful. -- Erika aka [[User:BrillLyle|BrillLyle]] ([[User talk:BrillLyle|talk]]) 01:01, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

== so great ==

I love this! We might want a slightly slimmed down set of directions to link to on social media -- perhaps a 1-pager with pictures. The other thing that would be useful is a "what makes a good source" section -- I can work on this. -- [[user:phoebe|phoebe]] | [[user_talk:phoebe|talk]] 18:13, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Phoebe}} This is very first drafty, I would welcome a one pager before the push in January (feel free to use the TWL OWL liberally). Let me know if you have any other thoughts/ideas, [[User:Astinson (WMF)|Astinson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Astinson (WMF)|talk]]) 16:06, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
:: Seriously, a big page with 1, 2, 3 and some social media stuff and a lot less "watch our video" and a lot less "here is the history of this initiative and Wikipedia generally". I feel like you're trying to do a lot of things with this page and your hearts are in the right place but if you want people to help, reduce the friction considerably and make it fun. Maybe you need two pages? I'm happy to help (not just shoot my mouth off) but wanted to make sure I ran it by everyone first. [[User:Jessamyn|Jessamyn]] ([[User talk:Jessamyn|talk]]) 22:37, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
:::Hi {{ping|Jessamyn|Phoebe}} I would be happy to see these design changes: that is part of the reason we started sharing it a month out! Please do make the design changes! [[User:Astinson (WMF)|Astinson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Astinson (WMF)|talk]]) 17:10, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

== Help contact ==

What does "Signing up to be a help contact in the "Contact a library leader" section" entail? [[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]] (Pigsonthewing); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]] 20:05, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Pigsonthewing}} Sorry for the slow response: we are just trying to get some community members, who can answer questions or respond to queries in their local region. We aren't putting firm rules on what this means, so feel free to forward anything you don't think is appropriate onto our central contact tools (me, the wikipedialibrary@wikimedia adress, or twitter). I imagining we might get some press from this, so that might be useful, or I will use that list to refer to people for guest blog posts -- we have gotten a half dozen asks so far.

Hello! We are holding an editathon at Johns Hopkins Today for #1Lib1Ref and our IP addresses and Usernames are being blocked. Help!

== Template:Translatable template ==

Hi, can someone prepare the page for multilingual translations? I've never used the TNT template and don't know how to manage it, but I do want to translate this page into Catalan language. Thanks in advance!--[[User:Kippelboy|Kippelboy]] ([[User talk:Kippelboy|talk]]) 11:52, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
:[[User:Kippelboy|Kippelboy]], I can set it up, but we should get the text locked down before we make a translatable version. Jessamyn and others have made some improvements, so I think we're close. [[User:The Interior|The Interior]] ([[User talk:The Interior|talk]]) 19:27, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

=== Translations ===
[[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity]] and I have gone through the pages to set them up for translation, they should be mostly good to go. Careful with links, there's a lot of them!
:*[[The Wikipedia Library/1Lib1Ref]] (this page)
:*[[The Wikipedia Library/1Lib1Ref/Participate]]
:*[[The Wikipedia Library/1Lib1Ref/Connect]]
:*[[The Wikipedia Library/1Lib1Ref/Help]]
However, we had trouble with [[Template:The Wikipedia Library/1Lib1Ref/Sidebar|the template]] - it was transcluding all the translation markup, and we couldn't figure out why. We've taken it out for now, but here's the version that was breaking: [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:The_Wikipedia_Library/1Lib1Ref/Sidebar&action=edit&oldid=15158722]. [[User:PEarley (WMF)|Patrick Earley (WMF)]] ([[User talk:PEarley (WMF)|talk]]) 23:00, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

::Hi, [[User:PEarley (WMF)|Patrick Earley (WMF)]] and [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity]],
::Thank you for doing the translating template, it seems like I messed up with the sidebar template, I want to make the chinese version to have the zh sidebar however I can only edit the english version's sidebar and it makes the translated version remains in english sidebar... --[[User:Shangkuanlc|Liang]]([[Wikimedia_Taiwan|WMTW]]) ([[User talk:Shangkuanlc|talk]]) 10:11, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
:::[[User:PEarley (WMF)|Patrick Earley (WMF)]] and [[User:Shangkuanlc|Liang]], we finally determined that the template just needed TNT and dummy-edits. It appears to now be working correctly in [[The_Wikipedia_Library/1Lib1Ref/zh]] and [[The_Wikipedia_Library/1Lib1Ref/fr]] and etc. Thanks to [[User:Trizek (WMF)|all]] [[User:Guillaume (WMF)|who]] helped.
:::Everyone else: Please take a look at translating the sidebar, [[Template:The Wikipedia Library/1Lib1Ref/Sidebar]], and the latest updates to the main page. Thanks! [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 18:25, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
:::: {{ping|Quiddity (WMF)|PEarley (WMF)|Guillaume (WMF)|Trizek (WMF)|Shangkuanlc}}, could you please also wrap the screenshot (or, at the very least, the caption) for translation? [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] ([[User talk:Halibutt|talk]]) 11:30, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::Can you be more specific, [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]]? Thanks, [[User:Trizek (WMF)|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)|talk]]) 13:56, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::: {{ping|Trizek (WMF)}}, on [[The_Wikipedia_Library/1Lib1Ref/Participate]] and [[The Wikipedia Library/1Lib1Ref/Help]] there are screenshots posted as illustration. All three are in English, with English subtitles. Ideally, the pictures themselves should be swappable for some other language version, and the captions should be translatable. See [[The_Wikipedia_Library/1Lib1Ref/Help/pl#Dodawanie_przypis%C3%B3w]] to know what I mean. [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] ([[User talk:Halibutt|talk]]) 14:09, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::: Also, the project's title: it's localisable on the main page, but it's in English on subpages (Help and Participate). [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] ([[User talk:Halibutt|talk]]) 14:11, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::Done for both, concerning captions and page titles. Concerning the image itself, it is a little bit more complicated. If you have any idea about how to deal with that, please ping me [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]]. [[User:Trizek (WMF)|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)|talk]]) 14:22, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::: {{ping|Trizek (WMF)}}, thanks!. As to the images, well, technically in wiki code an image is a link just like any other, so you can simply wrap the entire image code in translate tags, with file name, size in px, caption and whatnot. Say, <t<nowiki>ranslate>[[Image:Somethingsomething.jpg|thumb|right|English caption]]</translate</nowiki>>. Wouldn't this work? I'm pretty sure I did it once on Outreach, or somewhere... [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] ([[User talk:Halibutt|talk]]) 14:26, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::[[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]], that would work, but that's confusing for a translator. I've seen some people translating everything: <t<nowiki>ranslate>[[Image:Quelquechosequqelquechose.jpg|pouce|droit|Légende en anglais]]</translate</nowiki>> will not work :D
::::::::::If you think that's fine and you will watch it, let's do that. You can move the tags yourself, I'll then mark the page for translation. [[User:Trizek (WMF)|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)|talk]]) 14:33, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
: Thanks, all is fine and dandy now. [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] ([[User talk:Halibutt|talk]]) 12:51, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

== Reworking of main page ==

I broke the main page down into four pages and did some chunking of the content and added design elements. All the text should be there with the exception of a few sentences I edited. Please feel free to add in anything you notice is off of missing. Query: is this ilib1ref 2015 or 2016 since we're working on it now but it's taking place in 2016? [[User:Jessamyn|Jessamyn]] ([[User talk:Jessamyn|talk]]) 18:00, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
: Its 2016! This looks great! I did a bunch of tweaks, and we will probably do some more as we move forward :) [[User:Astinson (WMF)|Astinson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Astinson (WMF)|talk]]) 20:20, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
:: Excellent, let me know if we should move the userbox somewhere. I don't really know how they work but you saw the one that I made. [[User:Jessamyn|Jessamyn]] ([[User talk:Jessamyn|talk]]) 04:54, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

== facebook event creation? ==

Is it worth it having a facebook event that people can rsvp to? I could make one but it might be better if it came from the actual Library account (if there is one) [[User:Jessamyn|Jessamyn]] ([[User talk:Jessamyn|talk]]) 15:29, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, we have a WikiLibrary account, and I will make it :) Great idea. Jake [[User:Ocaasi (WMF)|Ocaasi (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ocaasi (WMF)|talk]]) 18:18, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
::{{Done}} https://www.facebook.com/events/975178119187954/ [[User:Ocaasi (WMF)|Ocaasi (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ocaasi (WMF)|talk]]) 17:18, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

== What makes a good source? ==

Drafting up a "What makes a good source" section, to potentially add... -- [[user:phoebe|phoebe]] | [[user_talk:phoebe|talk]] 21:54, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
--

* '''What makes a source good to add as a reference in Wikipedia?'''
:* Published: and peer-reviewed if possible.
:* Available: can readers potentially access the source?
:* Reliable: it's a source you'd point a patron to if they wanted to know more.
:* Secondary: usually secondary sources are better to cite than primary material, except in cases like official census figures.
:* Actually supports the claim made in the text: the source should back up what is stated. If it doesn't, but is a good general resource for the topic (such as a specialty encyclopedia), consider adding the source to a "further reading" section. If you can't find any supporting source for a claim, remove the claim from the article and add a note to the article talk page about what you removed and your research.
Read more at the Wikipedia guideline [[:w:Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources|Identifying reliable sources]].

:: would make a great addition to the Participate page! [[Special:Contributions/64.223.125.239|64.223.125.239]] 00:48, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

== Debrief? ==

Would love to be part of a debrief, hear what worked and what worked less well. I think it would be good to have some stats assembled that we can use to write summary posts about this. [[User:Jessamyn|Jessamyn]] ([[User talk:Jessamyn|talk]]) 02:32, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
:Great idea [[User:Jessamyn|Jessamyn]]. We're going to work with WMF Communications to use their analytics software for social media stats. Then we need to get the edit summary hashtag search working on non-English languages. After that we will definitely have a debrief. Hopefully in 1 week, but possibly in 2. Meanwhile, there's lots of posts and tweets that would make an excellent "storify-ed" post. Jake [[User:Ocaasi (WMF)|Ocaasi (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ocaasi (WMF)|talk]]) 19:56, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
:: The debrief we had scheduled was cancelled. I'd still like to be a part of a discussion about how to do something like this in the future [[User:Jessamyn|Jessamyn]] ([[User talk:Jessamyn|talk]]) 20:46, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

== Notification for coordinators ==

{{:The Wikipedia Library/1Lib1Ref/blurb}}
{{@TWLcoord}} Pinging coordinators to share their thoughts or plans! Cheers, Jake [[User:Ocaasi (WMF)|Ocaasi (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ocaasi (WMF)|talk]]) 19:12, 16 December 2016 (UTC) 
{{@TWLcoord}}Ping—[[User:UY Scuti|'''UY Scuti''']] [[User talk:UY Scuti|Talk]] 03:19, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
:Just a note the ping doesn't seem to work. [[User:Cameron11598|Cameron11598]] ([[User talk:Cameron11598|talk]]) 03:29, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
{{@TWLcoord}} Pinging Coordinators from list 1—[[User:UY Scuti|'''UY Scuti''']] [[User talk:UY Scuti|Talk]] 16:52, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
{{@TWLcoord1}} Pinging Coordinators from list 2—[[User:UY Scuti|'''UY Scuti''']] [[User talk:UY Scuti|Talk]] 16:54, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
:Hi. I was just pinged. --[[User:Benoît Prieur|Benoît Prieur]] ([[User talk:Benoît Prieur|talk]]) 16:56, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
:: It pinged me :D [[User:Cameron11598|Cameron11598]] ([[User talk:Cameron11598|talk]]) 23:59, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
:Hi, {{u|Ocaasi (WMF)}}. I got pinged, but I have been snowed by pings and did not notice it until now. I believe a massmessage directly to my talk page would get quicker notice from me. I am a massmessage sender if I can assist. Some of these prosposals look fun and viable. Cheers! [[User:Checkingfax|Checkingfax]] ([[User talk:Checkingfax|talk]]) 00:20, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

== Translate Dutch manual into English? ==

Hi,
two weeks ago I created a [[:c:File:Handleiding_1Lib1Ref_Nederlands.pdf|1Lib1Ref manual & call-to-action]] in Dutch. I tried to keep this manual as simple, to-the-point, visual and instructive as possible. The main reason was that I found the [[The_Wikipedia_Library/1Lib1Ref/nl|Dutch 1Lib1Ref info page]] rather confusing. I'm afraid that if I show this 'incrowd' page to un-initiated (into the Wikip/media world) librarians, they would be discouraged to take part in the action. I think it's already difficult enough for most 'normal' people to add a reference to WP

Although I'm primarily focusing on the participation of Dutch librarians, I'm willing to translate 'my simple' manual into English. Would that be helpful? Would it be (re-)used?

--[[User:OlafJanssen|OlafJanssen]] ([[User talk:OlafJanssen|talk]]) 16:21, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
:{{re|OlafJanssen}} Thanks for your interest! But will it be simpler than [[The Wikipedia Library/1Lib1Ref/Participate|this]] guide? Regards—[[User:UY Scuti|'''UY Scuti''']] [[User talk:UY Scuti|Talk]] 16:31, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

== Getting statistics ==

A question that has come up in the libraries we engage with is about getting regional statistics, as libraries participating in an initiative generally need to report on it (to justify participation) and would like to know how many 1lib1ref updates occurred in their "local area". What statistics will be available and when will they be available? Thanks [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry Raymond]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 02:24, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

:{{ping|Kerry Raymond}} Unfortunately, for regional questions: people have to opt in to a tracking tool, or creating some kind of recording page on wiki (or use a secondary hashtag for example, you could support folks using the #queensland hashtag if you are trying to track contributions in that region/topic area). Our privacy policy doesn't allow for exposing that kind of user information, especially when folks are signed in (IP addresses are exposed for not logged in users). [[User:Astinson (WMF)|Astinson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Astinson (WMF)|talk]]) 18:19, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
::I don't believe they are looking for user names or statistics at the user level. It would be nice to be able to provide simple counts at the Australian and Australian state levels. If we want partnerships with the GLAM sector, we need to take their needs into account and being able to report on some kind of KPI is important part of that. [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry Raymond]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 04:08, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
:Can you point me at the tracking tools? I suspect many of those involved would be willing if it helped provide the stats. [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry Raymond]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 08:09, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
::{{Ping|Astinson (WMF)}} I have a 1Lib1Ref session in 2 hours. Can I please get an answer to the question about tracking tools? We are now in Week 2. If this is the only way to gather data, I need to start promulgating it now. [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry Raymond]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 01:54, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
:::Hey Kerry. Sorry was gone over the weekend. You could use the Programs and events dashboard: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/ . That would provide sufficient support for if you have a known cohort of folks (and you can add their names retroactively). However, its not very useful when you have folks who are also hardcore Wikimedians (because all of their other contributions get lost). That is why we are using the hashtags tracking for the campaign: tools.wmflabs.org/hashtags/search/1lib1ref . [[User:Astinson (WMF)|Astinson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Astinson (WMF)|talk]]) 20:16, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
::::We do not have a known cohort. When you do outreach to a room of people and blog posts and the like, you have no idea what the user names are. Hence the desire for regional data. We do not need data on a user-level so there is no privacy issue. Alternatively, can we get data on edit summaries with the 1lib1ref tag AND which are on articles within [[:Category:Australia]] (and its closure) and for [[:Category:Queensland]] (and its closure). Ditto for other states. That must be do-able. Then at least we can report improvements to Australian/Queensland content as a statistic. I note that WMF is always asking us for KPIs; please help us get them. [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry Raymond]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 21:35, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

== "Warning: Template:Tnavbar/en is..." seen in preview ==

I'm in the middle of making very minor edits to this page (starting with fixing a missing period). This error appeared at the top of the first preview:

<blockquote>'''Warning''': [[Template:Tnavbar/en]] is calling [[Template:Tnavbar/layout]] with more than one value for the "" parameter. Only the last value provided will be used.</blockquote>

Just to be cautious, I manually reverted my edit then previewed the page again, and the error persisted. Sorry all I can do is point this out. Hope this is helpful, and thank you for all your hard work! —[[User:Geekdiva|Geekdiva]] ([[User talk:Geekdiva|talk]]) 21:03, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

== Symbol ==

Why this one symbol? --[[User:Munja|Munja]] ([[User talk:Munja|talk]]) 21:35, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
: {{ping|Munja}} Which symbol? [[User:Astinson (WMF)|Astinson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Astinson (WMF)|talk]]) 20:16, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

==publicity==
Not sure if anyone is collecting this kind of media for the project, but this is the [http://blogs.slq.qld.gov.au/plconnect/2017/01/23/lets-get-our-regions-on-wikipedia/ blog post] that went out from the State Library of Queensland. [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry Raymond]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 04:53, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
:{{Ping|Kerry Raymond}} Thx, blogs and press go at: [[The_Wikipedia_Library/1Lib1Ref/Press]]. I added this one today! [[User:Astinson (WMF)|Astinson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Astinson (WMF)|talk]]) 20:17, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

== Un asunto en cuanto al idioma ==

Recién me estoy informando respecto de esta iniciativa, que me parece muy interesante y por lo que tengo interés en participar, y en el relatorio en español que he estado leyendo, observé un link que me llevó aquí, y dicho enlace decía que si tengo una pregunta, que aquí la podría plantear.

En realidad tengo preguntas que hacer, pero aquí observo todo lo planteado en idioma inglés, y no sé si este espacio también está previsto para preguntas formuladas en otro idioma, siendo yo el primero en intentar este planteo, o si debo formular mi duda en otra página de discusión.

Y una de mis dudas es simple de expresar, por lo que la planteo a continuación.

Muy cierto, hay wikibibliotecarios u otro tipo de wikipedistas que señalan con una plantilla en un determinado artículo, los lugares donde sería importante sustituir esa marca por referencias pertinentes a fuentes fiables, pero también hay otras afirmaciones e informaciones presentes en un wikiartículo, donde esa plantilla no ha sido insertada, y que a todas luces también requerirían referencias a fuentes fiables. Supongo yo que ambos casos podrían participar en esta campaña, pero bueno, creo sería interesante que este punto se aclarara a título expreso.

Y otra cuestión, en base a lo que he estado leyendo en la presentación de esta campaña, nada se dice sobre las fotos o ilustraciones que podría ser interesante agregar a un determinado artículo. Cierto, hay cuestiones que poco se prestan para allí insertar una imagen o una foto, o algún otro archivo presente ya en WikiCommons o subido expresamente a Commons para esta instancia, pero por el contrario, hay otros artículos sobre lugares o hechos acaecidos, o biografías de personalidades, en que una o varias ilustraciones serían muy bienvenidas. Y mi pregunta es: ¿Estos agregados de ilustraciones también podrían participar en esta campaña?

Gracias anticipadamente por orientarme a través de algún tipo de retorno.

--[[File:Sol de Mayo de la Libertad.gif|20px]] [[User:AnselmiJuan|AnselmiJuan]] ([[User talk:AnselmiJuan|discusión]]) 10:12, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

: {{ping|AnselmiJuan}} Hola, en relación a tus dudas sobre el idioma, puedes plantear cualquier cuestión en español, no hay problema en ello. Sobre las referencias, la campaña busca añadirlas allí donde una plantilla las solicita pero pienso que cualquier otra referencia no solicitada también es bienvenida, cuanto más referenciado esté un artículo, mayor será su fiabilidad. En cuanto a insertar imágenes, queda fuera del objetivo de la campaña, pero es una tarea que puedes llevar a cabo en cualquier momento, sin necesidad de una campaña específica. Un cordial saludo. --[[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 00:03, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

:::Muchas gracias usuario [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] por tu respuesta, muy clara además. En relación a insertar imágenes, claro que sé que puedo agregar las que me parezca, siempre que sean pertinentes, y esto naturalmente queda fuera de la presente edición 2017 de la campaña. Pero bueno, en lo personal creo que las imágenes mucho pueden aportar al contenido de un artículo, a la par de las referencias claro, estas últimas indispensables, y pensaba que al planificar la campaña '''1Lib1Ref''' del año '''2018''', tal vez se podría estudiar si se podrían incluir también las imágenes, pues esto sería un muy buen incentivo para los wikipedistas novatos, para también aprender a manejarse con las imágenes y con otros archivos presentes en Commons. --[[File:Sol de Mayo de la Libertad.gif|20px]] [[User:AnselmiJuan|AnselmiJuan]] ([[User talk:AnselmiJuan|discusión]]) 02:55, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

=== He seguido pensando en este asunto, y particularmente en las referencias gráficas ===
Mil disculpas usuario [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]], pero he seguido pensando en todo este asunto, y particularmente en los gráficos, porque desde el punto de vista de lo que aporta una referencia externa, pienso no hay mucha diferencia entre un link a un documento externo, y un link a una imagen.

Mira el siguiente caso, que tomo como ejemplo (imagen de la izquierda):

[[File:Garrote vil, de Ramón Casas.jpg|thumb|250px|left|''[[w:es:El garrote vil|El garrote vil]]'' (1894).]]

Claro, los enlaces a documentos externos se numeran, y se ubican en una sección especial, casi al final del artículo, mientras que las imágenes se insertan todo a lo largo del texto del artículo, pero en otros aspectos son muy similares.

Por ejemplo, una referencia a documento externo, debe ser acompañada de información adicional, como ser autor o autores, fecha, fuente. Pero al hacer clic sobre una imagen, también se accede a una página digital, donde también se encuentran informaciones adicionales. Además, en ambos casos es posible incluir comentarios, citas, o advertencias.

Obviamente, no es mi objetivo plantear para la campaña 2017 que también se consideren computar los agregados de imágenes. Sería absurdo, pues esta campaña ya está llegando a su fin. Pero bueno, al organizar la campaña del 2018 (pues espero que el año próximo también se organice una), bien se podría considerar esta modificación en las bases.

Aquí abajo, muestro el texto de edición, que me permitió configurar la imagen anterior.

<nowiki> [[File:Garrote vil, de Ramón Casas.jpg|thumb|250px|left|''[[w:es:El garrote vil|El garrote vil]]'' (1894).]] </nowiki>

Felicidades.

--[[File:Sol de Mayo de la Libertad.gif|20px]] [[User:AnselmiJuan|AnselmiJuan]] ([[User talk:AnselmiJuan|discusión]]) 16:00, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

: {{ping|AnselmiJuan}} Hola, este tema se debería plantear al equipo organizador pero ya de cara al año que viene, la campaña actual está a punto de acabar. De todas formas, a efectos de verificabilidad una imagen no es comparable a una referencia, es decir no se debe justificar o referenciar un determinado contenido con una imagen; esta sirve para ilustrar ese contenido, para enriquecer su lectura, pero la verificabilidad vendrá gracias a la referencia a un libro, un artículo, una noticia, etc. Todo ello no quita para que se puedan plantear acciones en las que se promueva la inserción de imágenes en los artículos. Un saludo. --[[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 21:36, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

:::Perfecto, muy razonable lo que dices, usuario [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]]. Ciertamente, si se hace algo en este sentido, quedará para el 2018, en el marco de esta misma campaña ampliada, o en el marco eventualmente de una iniciativa diferente e independiente.

:::Desde mi punto de vista, tanto una imagen como una referencia ilustran y aclaran, y pienso que el contenido de una referencia también ilustra y aclara y permite ampliar conocimientos. Obvio, es bien claro que una referencia con texto permite verificar la información textual contenida en un wikiartículo, mientras que una imagen puede llegar a ilustrar muy bien un pasaje de texto, pero no permite verificar la información textual generalmente resumida que contiene un wikiartículo.

:::No obstante, pienso que puede ser muy interesante promocionar que se ilusren con fotos o figuras, en la medida de lo posible, los distintos artículos de wikipedia. Yo he intentado hacer algo en este sentido, y las imágenes que agrego en muchos casos las copio de las wikientradas hermanas en otros idiomas, lo que me lleva a pensar que en este aspecto estamos retrasados, y lo que me hace pensar que deberíamos promocionar esta cuestión.

:::Felicidades.

:::--[[File:Sol de Mayo de la Libertad.gif|20px]] [[User:AnselmiJuan|AnselmiJuan]] ([[User talk:AnselmiJuan|discusión]]) 22:50, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

== Obsolete code in the banner ==
See [[phab:T151480]]. [[User:He7d3r|Helder]] 12:32, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

== Localization of statistics ==

As of now, these sentences have been translated to several languages, but still refer to the English Wikipedia and show statistics relevant to the English Wikipedia:
{{quote|English Wikipedia alone has over 380,000 citation needed statements.}}
{{quote|Thousands of articles need more references; [[en:w:Category:Articles lacking sources|210,000 articles on English Wikipedia have no references at all]].}}

However, I believe that someone reading the page in another language will likely be more interested in knowing how many "citation needed" statements and how many articles don't have any references... in Wikipedia in that language, not in English. Likewise, the link to [[:w:Category:Articles lacking sources]] should also be changed to the corresponding category in Wikipedia in the target language.

Is there a general policy on the translation of statistics? Should the (Anglo-centric) information on statistics in pages in English be merely ''translated'' (maintaining its Anglo-centrism, just in another language), or should it be fully ''adapted'' to the target language? [[User:Sabbut|Sabbut]] ([[User talk:Sabbut|talk]]) 10:15, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
:{{ping|Sabbut}} Sorry for not responding to this sooner. Yes, please do adapt it for the target language in the translation layer. We want each language/geographic community to . I will make sure that that is shared more thoroughly with campaign organizers next year, when we do it again. [[User:Astinson (WMF)|Astinson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Astinson (WMF)|talk]]) 15:28, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
::OK, I just changed the relevant part in the Spanish translation. [[User:Sabbut|Sabbut]] ([[User talk:Sabbut|talk]]) 17:14, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

== Ampliación de las estadísticas: muy interesante planteamiento ==

Cierto, las campañas de 2016 y 2017 comenzaron ambas el 15 de enero, fecha aniversario del comienzo de Wikipedia, que naturalmente comenzó exclusivamente con la Wikipedia en inglés (ese mismo año de 2001 comenzaron varias otras Wikipedia en otros idiomas).

Para wikipedistas que no tengan al inglés como lengua materna, creo sería muy interesante para ellos también conocer las estadísticas desglosadas, de lo que pasó con el agregado de referencias en otras lenguas.

En la campaña del año 2016, se sabe al menos que hubo 327 participantes, 1.232 revisiones, y 9 idiomas involucrados. Creo no sería muy complicado plantear un cuadro de 9 líneas, donde al menos se desglosaran los datos de revisiones y de usuarios participantes, para cada idioma.

--[[File:Sol de Mayo de la Libertad.gif|20px]] [[User:AnselmiJuan|AnselmiJuan]] ([[User talk:AnselmiJuan|discusión]]) 16:37, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

== Project outcomes ==

When do we have any project outcomes? I'm gonna be nagged very soon for the GLAMwiki newsletter for February amongst other things and I want to have something to say. What was final count? Can we please at least get the list of edits with the hashtag? [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry Raymond]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 00:14, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:{{re|Kerry Raymond}} 4,171 edits from 741 contributors to 2,588 pages<ref>https://twitter.com/WikiLibrary/status/828717017012113410</ref>. And for the list of edits, please visit the [http://tools.wmflabs.org/hashtags/search/1lib1ref Wikipedia social search tool] on labs. Regards—[[User:UY Scuti|'''UY Scuti''']] [[User talk:UY Scuti|Talk]] 14:41, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:Great, thanks! [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry Raymond]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 16:11, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
::I downloaded the CSV of the edits, but I am a bit confused. The CSV seems to have one edit per row, but there appear to be 5642 rows in the CSV file, which seems to suggest more than 4,171 edits. What am I missing here? [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry Raymond]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 16:21, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
:::{{re|Kerry Raymond}} Yeah, it can be confusing. The CSV and the tool includes hashtags from last year's campaign and hashtags after the campaign. But the results (4,171) were the edits made from 3 January 2017 to 3 February 2017, not including edits made before or after the time frame. Hope that helps. Regards—[[User:UY Scuti|'''UY Scuti''']] [[User talk:UY Scuti|Talk]] 17:07, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
::::OK. I see a problem though in the date fields, there appear to be two different formats which is making sorting by date difficult. Why is that? I'm trying to find the edits made in certain date/time ranges corresponding to specific events we held. Also, did the query that collected these edits search for #1lib1ref or did it also allow 1lib1ref (without the #)? I ask because I saw some edit summaries on my watchlist that did not include the #. [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry Raymond]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 02:56, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::{{re|Kerry Raymond}} I'm not sure why they are in different formats. Maybe {{u|Astinson (WMF)}} or {{u|Ocaasi (WMF)}} can help? And about the hashtag '#', the tool indexes only the edits that include '#'. Also, I'm not sure if there's a tool to search for edits with a particular phrase/word i.e. without the hashtag. Regards—[[User:UY Scuti|'''UY Scuti''']] [[User talk:UY Scuti|Talk]] 14:02, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

== Increasing yield ==

How about listing ideas for identifying or new-building some tools that could speed up this sort of thing? Some starters below:[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 21:50, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
#Each edition page found on the [[w:Open Library|Open Library]] has a "Download catalog record" list that shows a "Wikipedia citation" link (as well as RDF, JSON, ond OPDS formats). A tool (perhaps a bookmarklet?) could conceivably be built to feed that information into a search of WP for articles on matching subjects, where they contain either unlinked "Bibliography" sections or "citation needed" and "unreferenced" tags. This would be particularly beneficial for long-stable topic areas, as any available PD fulltext could then be just clicks away for content editors.
#Within a WP article, the pool of cited books will tend to have a cluster of similar Dewey- and LC-classes, so tagging the article accordingly could help source hunters to find other (perhaps better) books on the same topic. Likewise it would help someone with a specific book in hand to find articles that could benefit from citing that book.
#Many works, or even editions, are cited in many articles, but often incompletely. Very often there is no linked catalogue entry (no ISBN, OCLC, OL, or any other identifier), making it one notch harder for a reader to know if the source even exists. A tool able to list all WP articles where a specific work is cited would facilitate diffusion of such more-complete metadata out to the articles.
#Wikidata gathers metadata on cited works which could be used by a tool to fill in missing parameters in incomplete templated citations
#...

Community Wishlist Survey 2016/Categories/Miscellaneous

2016-12-09T18:52:04Z

LeadSongDog: /* Voting – "+1" statements on talk pages */ o

{{:WM:WISHLIST2016/Category header|Editing|Mobile and apps}}

== Add section/tab reset buttons for user preferences ==

* '''Problem''': Currently, all user preferences have to be reset at once.

* '''Who would benefit''': Users.

* '''Proposed solution''': Add extra buttons for each tab and each section.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:17, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Add section/tab reset buttons for user preferences/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
:{{ping|Jc86035}} In which situations is this needed and is this really needed for each tab and each section? Personally I'd be reluctant to add more and more options to the user interface if they are barely used so elaborating on the use cases is very welcome. --[[User:AKlapper (WMF)|AKlapper (WMF)]] ([[User talk:AKlapper (WMF)|talk]]) 14:43, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
::{{re|AKlapper (WMF)}} It's mostly something that would be mildly convenient. Something similar in function to the little {{abbr|d|default gadget – enabled by default}} in the Commons preferences gadgets tab, like a list of defaults, would work as well. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 15:00, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Add section/tab reset buttons for user preferences ===
#{{Oppose}} Not convinced this is a problem; I highly doubt this feature would see very much use if implemented. -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 02:28, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Solution for a non-existing problem. --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:04, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

== Add user profile images (avatars) ==

* '''Problem''':
Users have no user images, making Wikipedia feel very anonymous and uninviting. Practically all major websites (not just social media, also sites like ebay, google, etc) allow users to have profile images (avatars). On Wikimedia sites there is no such thing, only a photo on a user page. It's not acceptable that users currently must upload their image to Commons and license it in such a way that anyone can then use their face for any purpose for all of eternity. (Yes, some protections come from personality rights which exist in some jurisdictions, but they do not offer protection everywhere, and users should not have to rely on personality rights to protect their image when they should never have been made to give up control of it through a copyleft license in the first place)

* '''Who would benefit''':
You.

* '''Proposed solution''':
Streamline user profile (avatar) image upload. Do not require users to give up rights to their own image.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':
Phabricator has user profile images already. Phabricator users do not have to license their image with a copyleft license. Have a look how it's done there. Copy it for the rest of Wikimedia sites. Integrate it with Wikimedia functionality over time.

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Pengo|Pengo]] ([[User talk:Pengo|talk]]) 23:49, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Add user profile images (avatars)/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*[[:w:Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_blog.2C_web_hosting_service.2C_social_networking_service.2C_or_memorial_site|Wikipedia is not a social newtork]] and users are not here to develop their personality, they are here to build the encyclopedia and distribute free contents, which include free files. In case local projects decide to (strangely enough) allow the use of avatars, yes, they should be uploaded to Commons at Commons' conditions. --[[User:Gianfranco|g]] ([[User talk:Gianfranco|talk]]) 01:18, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
*It's true that Wikimedia sites aren't for social networking, but perhaps photos of users helps people see that we're all just humans, and so be kinder to each other? (No idea, really.) Also, where would such an avatar be displayed, other than on user pages? It'd be nice to see it wherever usernames are shown, but that's mostly within other text and so an image wouldn't really work; wikis that use [[Flow]] could probably use an avatar to good effect. One other thing: everything on Phabricator is licenced under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted, so people ''do'' have to licence their image as copyleft to use it there (personally I don't think this is a problem). [[User:Samwilson|Sam]] [[User talk:Samwilson|Wilson]] 02:06, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
*A possibility should be welcome, cooperative environments are not created by ideological limits. People put their images sometimes, why it should be an issue if this concept is also standardized, I don't see it. I never put my image, but I totally welcome your need, if it is shared by others. Just one thing, be sure people click on a statement that they are eighteen years old. That would be enough. A minor can even upload its own image now on commons for his profile, this would actually give slightly more legal protection.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 04:34, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
*Just wanted to point out the difference between a social networking service and a social network. As Samwilson says, we are not FOR social networking, but our users ARE a social network. And to some degree we already have avatars, in the form of people's customizable signature. See also [[:en:Wikipedia:Facebookization|Wikipedia:Facebookization]]. Also I support the challenges mentioned by g and Sam regarding the potential conflict with how people are used to dealing with avatar images, vs the licensing basics that we currently adhere to.. —[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 11:25, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
*Strong objections are raised every time this has come up in the past. Many of them are summarized in [[mw:User:Isarra/Avatars]]. TL;DR: This would create a massive amount of additional "friction" between users who disagree on what is "appropriate" as an avatar, and a massive amount of new policy/guideline requirements (and subsequent moderation/enforcement) on what is "acceptable" as an avatar. ''However'', I do agree with the concern about people needing to use Commons, and I think that's worth further discussion, but not as part of this community wishlist because it will mainly be a question of what policy/setup we might want and that is not a software issue. [[User:Quiddity|Quiddity]] ([[User talk:Quiddity|talk]]) 20:42, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
* I believe a setup of something similar down below that I wrote would have to be created:
** Special pages:
*** '''Special:UploadAvatar''' - By default, any user who is not blocked should be able to have access to this special page.
*** '''Special:RemoveAvatar''' - By default, any user should be able to remove their '''own''' avatar. A different user right which would give the ability to remove other peoples avatars would be given to a set of staff members.
*** '''Special:Log/avatarupload''' (Avatar upload log) - For tracking when people upload an avatar.
*** '''Special:Log/avatarremove''' (Avatar removal log) - For tracking when people remove an avatar (whether it's their own or someone else's.)
** User permissions:
*** <code>avatar-upload</code> - Any user who isn't blocked would be granted this right.
*** <code>avatar-remove-own</code> - Any user who isn't blocked would be granted this right.
*** <code>avatar-remove-others</code> - This user right would be given to a group of staff members (for which group would require a discussion)
** Would have to be implemented into the Vector skin
* Along with that, whether or not anons should be able to upload avatars would also require a discussion too. The social aspect is quite complicated because of making sure avatars are appropriate, and then the legal aspect aka licensing and copyright. Despite all of that, I support this and would love to help figuring out how all of it would work :) [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 23:43, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
* I agree with a previous comment: we are a social network of users, even if are not a social platform ''per se''. The more the "internet of people" become "interconnected" with the" internet of things" and so on, this aspect evolves too. We can't be some type of dinosaur in the net on the long term. For example, we did introduce the ping, we allow meta page to work as general user pages everywhere, we are creating global language knowledge template for such pages... in a SUL perspective, if I want people so see my face, why you want me to copy-paste a code on the 5 or more platforms I'm active on instead of making my life simpler with a specific functionality? (not an unusual scenario: commons, data, meta are all crosswiki for example, people know foreign languages more than 10 years ago, they are active on many projects) Also think about the possibility to make a much stronger control on that picture, for example requesting its deletion on commons with a clic when replaced or removed (if commons users agree and don't see why they should have a problem with that) ... finally sometimes who you are is important. What if I need to know for a project for example if you're a women or a man, or if you're 18-25 or above 65? Sometimes there are content-related activities where this could matters. Maybe I don't understand your profile and even if you write that in Indonesian or Chinese, I just don't know. But I can see your picture. If it is ok for you, I can think of many reasons why it's ok for me as well.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 04:47, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
*Avatars/user photos on Wikipedia? Bonds get created between users for sure, and a lot of us go to meetups and conferences but WP is not a forum or a social networking site. For anyone who wants to put a mug shot on their page, uploading a photo to commons takes only a few seconds. I can't see justification for developing a purpose built feature for it. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]]) 11:16, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
* Repeatedly rejected perennial proposal. For many users, the standard of anonymity is a major plus. There are also numerous other major issues with this proposal that tend to be enumerated every time this comes up. --[[User:Yair rand|Yair rand]] ([[User talk:Yair rand|talk]]) 18:13, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
* No matter the reasons for not having it, this is, of course, feasible and therefore will make it to the next round. I will oppose it on the grounds that there are much more important changes to make. However, given the proposer sticks to his guns, this will probably be the #1 pick when it comes to voting, and we'll have fun watching the staff find a "really, really good reason" to worm out of doing it. heh. But even if it becomes a reality, I suspect many wikis won't switch on this option unless and until they have a community consensus to do so. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 17:59, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
*Not very needed, but why not. We ARE a social network, even if we try to deny it. Few more friendly features wouldn't hurt. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 08:06, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
* I misread above "cooperative environments" as "corporate environment" and in a way this is actually true. We are volunteers, is there really a need to be "professional" and treat it everything as "work"? – [[User:Jberkel|Jberkel]] ([[User talk:Jberkel|talk]]) 12:34, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
:::even at work I often I have to provide a small image of me for a webmaster office or similar, which goes on the canteen or entrance card for example. Sometimes is compulsory, sometimes is not, sometimes it depends on the database. But it's there. Having or not having a profile image does not even make a platform a social media, come on... I didn't have my image on many social media for years. BTW in the end in its simplest implementation would be probably just a feature that makes you 1) upload a picture in an automatic special commons category with an automatic description 2) offer you a menu where you can select on which platform insert automatically that image on your user pages with a basic code and caption. I don't see how something like that, a likely scenario, could be an alteration of our "social ecosystem" more than the SUL and the cross-wiki ping. I guess it could be shown on some user activity summary page with your consensus. At the moment, I click on your user page of the most active platform and see if it is there, if I need to see your face, which I rarely do.Maybe we could forbid all profile-like image... just to prove a point ;)--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 13:13, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
* This could be easily done as a labs tool (get account access via OAUth, upload image to Commons, add it to top of user page). Probably as part of some "generate user page from a template" system. --[[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Tgr (WMF)|talk]]) 03:37, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

'''Info:''' If you go to the preferences in german wikipedia to section Helferlein (Gadgets) and choose "Navigations-Popups" (first in Navigation) you get a feature similar to Hovercards (Beta-Section), but it also works in talk and user name spaces. So if a user has a picture on his user page, this will be displayed, if you hover over the signature of the user - practically making this the users profile image. --[[user:°|𝔊]] ([[w:de:user:°|Gradzeichen]] [[w:de:user talk:°|Diſk]][[phab:T129747|✉]][[user talk:°|Talk]]) 11:04, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – User profile images (avatars) ===
#{{s}}--[[User:Shizhao|Shizhao]] ([[User talk:Shizhao|talk]]) 02:46, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:23, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{oppose}} This would be a nightmare to administer in terms of removing unacceptable images and patrolling for copyright violations. Moreover there isn't really anywhere avatars could be used except in Flow. Please don't add such an administrative burden to admins and patrollers. I'm getting déjà vu from Gather... [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 08:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{oppose}} not because this is necessarily a "bad" idea, but because there are far more important changes needed to improve the development of the wikis. And, as others have discussed, this is not altogether simple to implement when all aspects are considered. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 14:22, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{oppose}} for the reasons I mentioned above. --[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]]) 15:15, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{oppose}} If you want bling, use a bling website. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 22:17, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} You can go to the user page to learn more about a user. [[User:Aracali|Aracali]] ([[User talk:Aracali|talk]]) 03:29, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}}. 1. Wikipedias and other Wikimedia's wikis are not social networks like VK and Facebook. 2. The purpose of user signature is just to identify the user, more detailed information can be placed on user's personal page. 3. If you do not want to provide some your work under free licences, just do not post that work into Wikipedia and other Wikimedia's wikis. [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:31, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} This is a project to build an encyclopedia, not a chat or social meeting platform. User avatars are irrelevant and would only cause distraction from our goals. --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 02:00, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 04:37, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} [[User:4nn1l2|4nn1l2]] ([[User talk:4nn1l2|talk]]) 13:26, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} On the contrary, I think avatars will contribute to the alienation of less serious/dedicated/obsessed users. At present, the minimum to be "accepted" as a community member/editor/user is a blue-linked user page. That's pretty simple, and easy to see, easy to create, etc. I'm sure we've all experienced the feeling we get about users on websites - forums, Facebook, Twitter, etc - when we don't see an avatar or profile photo. "They must not come here often." "Maybe this is a spam profile." "I'm not going to follow them, they probably won't have much to contribute." Do we really want to create ANOTHER hurdle to inclusion in Wikimedia projects? (And hurdle is not facetious, uploading teeny tiny profile photos is a pain, and every site's requirements are different.) That's my main objection, but also in reality I imagine thousands of editors will never bother. Many, many editors don't customise their signatures, and that functionality has been around for ages. If this proposal were implemented, it would probably achieve nothing but a small subset of very active editors feeling very pleased with their avatar while everyone else ignores it. [[User:Julia W|Julia]]\[[User_talk:Julia W|talk]] 23:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}} No. -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 02:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Absolutely not. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 05:29, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}}, Wikipedia is not social network and social media. [[User:Beagel|Beagel]] ([[User talk:Beagel|talk]]) 18:22, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Not in the philosophy of this site. [[User:Semmendinger|Semmendinger]] ([[User talk:Semmendinger|talk]]) 19:50, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Ugh. Definitely not. --[[User:Vachovec1|Vachovec1]] ([[User talk:Vachovec1|talk]]) 19:53, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} → [[User:Man77|'''««''']] Man77 [[User talk:Man77|'''»»''']] [[:de:User:Man77|[de]]] 22:13, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} '''[[User:Jmvkrecords|Jmvkrecords]] [[Special:Contributions/Jmvkrecords|⚜]] ([[User Talk:Jmvkrecords|Intra talk]])''' 08:25, 2 December 2016 (UTC).
# {{oppose}} [[User:Draceane|Draceane]] ([[User talk:Draceane|talk]]) 10:15, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} Mostly because I am uncertain on the consequences. The "we are not a social network" arguments in my eyes have no merit, there is a big difference between having users interact with each other (a prerequisite for a collaborative project, anyhow) and a full blown social network. [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 16:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} You can put picture on your user page. [[User:Doc James|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]])
# {{support}} [[User:Daylen|Daylen]] ([[User talk:Daylen|talk]]) 06:15, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{o}} no. [[User:Jianhui67|'''Jianhui67]] [[User talk:Jianhui67|'''talk''']]★[[Special:Contributions/Jianhui67|'''contribs''']] 10:04, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} --[[User:Slb nsk|Slb nsk]] ([[User talk:Slb nsk|talk]]) 18:53, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} --[[User:Ping08|Ping08]] ([[User talk:Ping08|talk]]) 02:22, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} This isn't Facebook. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 04:49, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} [[User:Studmult|Studmult]] ([[User talk:Studmult|talk]]) 07:38, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} --[[User:Andropov|Andropov]] ([[User talk:Andropov|talk]]) 18:18, 5 December 2016 (UTC) No need.
# {{oppose}} Aren't user pages and custom signatures dedicated to that? '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 20:18, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} as completely contrary to the purpose of the enterprise. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:29, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{strong oppose}} Commons is not Facebook or a chat platform. --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:06, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} THis is a terrible idea. [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 15:56, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 05:43, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} Why not. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] ([[User talk:Piotrus|talk]]) 13:18, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}}. Harmful to the norms of anonymity, more likely to cause users to place the person before the edit(s), and completely outside the goals of the movement. --[[User:Yair rand|Yair rand]] ([[User talk:Yair rand|talk]]) 18:24, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Allow a second email address (wikimail, password reset, notifications) ==

* '''Problem''': The same email address is used for wikimail and password recovery.
*:For password recovery an address with a secure mail provider is a good choice. For wikimail on the other hand a throw-away-mail-address, that can be easily replaced, if it becomes known to a stalker or the public, makes more sense.

* '''Who would benefit''': This is especially true for accounts with additional rights and prolific authors. These groups cannot work without wikimail and are unlikely to abstain from the possibilty to recover a lost password.

* '''Proposed solution''': Add the option to specify a second email address in the preferences for all users.
*:Add the following global preferences (email and password are already global):
*:* checkboxes to select what email address to use with wikimail or none at all
*:* checkboxes to select what email address to use for password recovery or none at all
*:** if both boxes are checked, different temporary passwords are sent to both addresses and both are needed to login
*:* checkboxes to select what email address to use for echo and other notifications
*:* in a more ambitious additional approach the local echo preferences could allow the configuration of every notification type to be sent onwiki, to first address, to second address
*:* checkboxes to send a TAN to either of the adresses on login (achieving a cheap way of 2FA, at least until true 2FA is implemented)

*:In a given time frame only one email address can be changed. A confirm message is sent to the new address and additionally a "cancel the change" message is sent to the other unchanged address.

*:The option of two addresses would allow the use of a throw-away-email-address for wikimail. So if this address becomes known to a stalker, you can simply change this address, while keeping your secret secure email address for all other uses.

<gallery>
Mockup-proposal-2emails--preferences-email.png|preferences page
Mockup-proposal-2emails--preferences-notifications.png|notfications preferences
Mockup-proposal-2emails--change-email-2.png|change a mail address
Mockup-proposal-2emails--change-email-3.png|change a mail address
Mockup-proposal-2emails--signup.png|signup
</gallery>

* '''More comments''': Nothing changes for any user who does not specify an email address or stays with one address.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T129747]]

* '''Proposer''': [[user:°|𝔊]] ([[w:de:user:°|Gradzeichen]] [[w:de:user talk:°|Diſk]][[phab:T129747|✉]][[user talk:°|Talk]]) 02:04, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Allow a second email address (wikimail, password reset, notifications)/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*An excellent idea. I can use a public ID for Wikipedia users, and a hidden ID for password problems and quiet communications with Administrators.--[[User:Dthomsen8|Dthomsen8]] ([[User talk:Dthomsen8|talk]]) 14:58, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
*yes, please, it would be very useful :-) --[[User:Gianfranco|g]] ([[User talk:Gianfranco|talk]]) 18:18, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
*Fine with me.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 04:58, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
*Good idea. [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]]) 10:55, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
*I'd also appreciate the option to use a different mail address for wikimail then the primary one couple to my account. Another solution however would be to simply NOT expose the email address in Wikimail. This has also been suggested in several places now, for various reasons (DMARC and privacy protection). —[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 20:55, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
** Yes, but my idea only adds a text field "2nd email address" to the user database. In order not to expose addresses, all email has to be routed through wikimedia servers - a much more complicated system to program, that will take longer to implement. --[[user:°|𝔊]] ([[w:de:user:°|Gradzeichen]] [[w:de:user talk:°|Diſk]][[phab:T129747|✉]][[user talk:°|Talk]]) 22:02, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
: This is good, but how if newbie can learn, it may be confused?[[User:Murbaut|Murbaut]] ([[User talk:Murbaut|talk]]) 14:14, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
::I like the idea of being able to set a separate address for communications and for password security, but "if both boxes are checked" i would send one temp passcode to both addresses so that either could be used for recovery. If higher security is required i would use something other than a second emailed code. Being locked out of an email account because it was hacked or the password was lost and forgotten, is not rare. [[User:Bcharles|Bcharles]] ([[User talk:Bcharles|talk]]) 23:04, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Allow a second email address ===
#{{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:34, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} [[User:Samwalton9|Samwalton9]] ([[User talk:Samwalton9|talk]]) 09:19, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 04:40, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:MGChecker|MGChecker]] ([[User talk:MGChecker|talk]]) 15:13, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#Weak {{Support}} Would be nice, but very low priority Imo -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 22:15, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 07:09, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:07, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 15:56, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} weakly. Good idea, but extreme low priority. [[User:Tiggerjay|Tiggerjay]] ([[User talk:Tiggerjay|talk]]) 20:56, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. - [[User:Mailer diablo|Mailer Diablo]] ([[User talk:Mailer diablo|talk]]) 06:59, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 05:44, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# Weak {{support}} per Fastily. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 14:02, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} - [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 20:07, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 15:54, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:R. S. Shaw|R. S. Shaw]] ([[User talk:R. S. Shaw|talk]]) 17:57, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Allow users to restrict who can send them email ==

* '''Problem''': As a victim of harassment, I want control over who can send me email via [[Special:Emailuser]]. Email provides a medium for harassment that is private and cannot be monitored or controlled easily when sockpuppets are involved.

* '''Who would benefit''': Everyone, as long as it is integrated into core MediaWiki.

* '''Proposed solution''': Right now, I have only two options -- accept emails from all users, or no emails whatsoever. This proposal would change this to the following:
:*Allow { all users | autoconfirmed users only | admins only | nobody } (or other predefined groups) to send me email.
:*Prevent $BLACKLIST_OF_USERS from sending me email regardless of their permission level.
:*Allow $WHITELIST_OF_USERS to send me email regardless of their permission level.

* '''More comments''':
:*$BLACKLIST_OF_USERS may be made available to trusted users to investigate harassment complaints -- after all, if a user is blacklisted by multiple other users action may need to be taken. This is a strictly optional part of this proposal.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T138165]], [[phab:T138166]], [[phab:T150419]]

* '''Proposer''': Credit to [[User:BethNaught]] [[Grants:IdeaLab/Allow users to restrict who can send them email|for the idea]]. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 07:57, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Allow users to restrict who can send them email/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

Nota Bene: I talked with BethNaught about our proposals some month ago. I had hoped to merge the ideas, but he thought mine to be to complicated and seemed to expect a quicker solution for his proposal. The problem I see with this idea: People will only activate this feature at a time a spammer already has their email address and no longer needs to use wikimail. --[[user:°|𝔊]] ([[w:de:user:°|Gradzeichen]] [[w:de:user talk:°|Diſk]][[phab:T129747|✉]][[user talk:°|Talk]]) 09:52, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:This feature is specifically intended to counter the use of [[Special:Emailuser]] to send harassment and spam emails. If I recall correctly, receiving an email through [[Special:Emailuser]] does not disclose your email address -- it is disclosed if you reply via email. If a spammer already has your email address there is nothing we can do. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 12:19, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::Yes, quite. If person A sends person B an email using EmailUser, person A does not receive person B's address. Person B could then block or protect against person A, who would no longer have any way to email person B. You (Gradzeichen) seem to misunderstand how EmailUser works. [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 16:09, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Also note that [[phab:T97518|email addresses already do get disclosed on mail delivery failure]] (which can have various reasons, e.g. mail provider policies). --[[User:AKlapper (WMF)|AKlapper (WMF)]] ([[User talk:AKlapper (WMF)|talk]]) 19:06, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::::Oh shit. How come that hasn't been fixed in over a year? Even if the failure isn't handled the leak needs to be plugged. (Thanks for the info, I guess :/ ) [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 22:37, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::To clarify, it appears that that bug was actually fixed a while ago, but the people who fixed it weren't aware of the bug, so they didn't close it. [[User:BWolff (WMF)|BWolff (WMF)]] ([[User talk:BWolff (WMF)|talk]]) 17:36, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
Is there some way, if person A - who must be registered editor - sends person B a harassing or spam email using EmailUser, for person B to report the email as harassment? If not, there should be. And if there is, wouldn't it be a good idea to add that at the end of every email? ["If you want to report this email as inappropriate, forward it to bademail@wikimedia.org, with a brief explanation."] -- [[User:John Broughton|John Broughton]] ([[User talk:John Broughton|talk]]) 01:15, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

A dumb spammer may indeed only use Special:EmailUser to send messages and never care to get an answer. But as soon as this feature gets implemented, even the dumbest spammer will soon learn to send a friendly request with EmailUser, triggering the victim to give a helpful answer. At that point the spammer has the email address and can now send harrassment from a different sender address (with the additional benefit of not burning his wiki-account, because the identity of his wikimail address and the other email address cannot be proved). This feature is useful for a short time after its implementation and from than on against dumb spammers. An alternative approach (used by many forums and marketplaces) is not to expose the email addresses in wikimail, but to assign temporary addresses for wikimail communication, but this would require routing all this mail through wikimedia servers... --[[user:°|𝔊]] ([[w:de:user:°|Gradzeichen]] [[w:de:user talk:°|Diſk]][[phab:T129747|✉]][[user talk:°|Talk]]) 07:47, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

:I remember some discussion about this sort of centrally-mediated user emailing system in the discussions about https://discourse.wmflabs.org (but I can't find it now, sorry). Certainly, if Discourse were to be continued with, it has this functionality built in. [[User:Samwilson|Sam]] [[User talk:Samwilson|Wilson]] 08:12, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

:Replying via email is something ''you'' have control over, and is something I refrain from unless absolutely necessary. That said, it's fairly trivial to change the sender's email address to, say, {{no spam|MER-C|no-reply.wikimedia.org}} and discard any emails sent to that address. [[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous#Provide a dummy email address|I'll propose this below]]. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 06:28, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm a bit against this feature: even if admins are not required to enable the Special:Emailuser, there might be selected groups of users that we expect to leave an open door for legitimate emails from anyone in case of particular needs (i.e. checkusers). When we visit their user page, we could read the link to the mailing page, but we wouldn't know any more if that user is really accepting mail from any user (as he perhaps should, in given cases). We would then loose the objective immediate information about whether the user generically accepts mail from anyone or not. However, no one is required to answer to trolls, no one is forced to use a given e-mail address to answer, and it's no shame to put trolls into /IGNORE mode and directly divert spammers' artworks to the dustbin. Either you accept mail or you don't, I think it's simpler and cleaner --[[User:Gianfranco|g]] ([[User talk:Gianfranco|talk]]) 18:44, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

I like the idea of this as I like to leave email on for private info that can't/shouldn't be added on wiki but it would be useful to be able to set to "autoconfirmed users only". [[User:KylieTastic|KylieTastic]] ([[User talk:KylieTastic|talk]]) 14:10, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
* I like this idea for the reasons stated above - better than the binary all/none system we currently have. --[[User:LT910001|LT910001]] ([[User talk:LT910001|talk]]) 20:17, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

@[[User:°|Gradzeichen]]: If I get a mail from someone I don't want to give my email address, I reply on their talk page (avoiding relevant information sent in the email, of course). --[[User:Mfb|mfb]] ([[User talk:Mfb|talk]]) 12:25, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

:[[ping|Mfb]] To put it blunt: This is not for you. You are a power user, you know what you do, you can handle this type of situation. Even wikipedia is not for you. Wikipedia is for people who are not computer savvy, people who create accounts on facebook, twitter, amazon, ebay. people who use the internet and wonder when someone starts to harrass them. this are friendly people. If you send them a message, they answer. And they answer by clicking "respond". In the case of wikipedia they expose their email address. Now, if they answer unknowingly to a spammer/stalker/troll - all is lost. Only at this point they will start to find ways to handle the situation. Whatever solution will be chosen: It has to be one, that works for new users *before* the harrassment starts. This could be done with my proposal of two addresses. This could be done with wikimedia-generatad temporary addresses, or with an other method. BethNaught's idea is helpful, but only to a limit. --[[user:°|𝔊]] ([[w:de:user:°|Gradzeichen]] [[w:de:user talk:°|Diſk]][[phab:T129747|✉]][[user talk:°|Talk]]) 12:53, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
::that's true. Some people are truly wiki, they assume it should be nice to answer. They realized too late they shouldn't have.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 02:55, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Allow users to restrict who can send them email ===
#{{s}} [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 08:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}}. [[User:Samwalton9|Samwalton9]] ([[User talk:Samwalton9|talk]]) 09:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:MarcoAurelio|Marco]][[User talk:MarcoAurelio|Aurelio]] 15:13, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:34, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ocaasi|Ocaasi]] ([[User talk:Ocaasi|talk]]) 18:35, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} as argued at 07:47, 8 November 2016 (UTC). [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 03:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} as proposer. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 06:05, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} I believe the pros outweigh the cons. This, in combination with [[#Provide a dummy email address]], would be a great idea. — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 21:02, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 02:54, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} '''[[User:Jmvkrecords|Jmvkrecords]] [[Special:Contributions/Jmvkrecords|⚜]] ([[User Talk:Jmvkrecords|Intra talk]])''' 08:27, 2 December 2016 (UTC).
# {{support}} ie. autopatrolled, administrators ... --[[User:Framawiki|Framawiki]] ([[User talk:Framawiki|talk]]) 20:38, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Opabinia regalis|Opabinia regalis]] ([[User talk:Opabinia regalis|talk]]) 04:25, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Yeza|Yeza]] ([[User talk:Yeza|talk]]) 13:10, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 16:02, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Studmult|Studmult]] ([[User talk:Studmult|talk]]) 07:38, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} I worry that users might block emails that they really need to receive. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:32, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Same as dummy email --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:09, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}} It is very simple to set up a filter through your e-mail provider so that spam from certain addresses or containing certain phrases (e.g. "sent by User:Spammer") automatically goes to the spam folder. Getting around this filter is pretty easy if a user registers new e-mail addresses to spam you, but you can have the exact same problem with users registering new WP-accounts to send you harassment.At best this is a waste of resources for something you can solve yourself in 5 minutes. At worst it is a waste of resources that doesn't even solve the problem. [[User:CFCF|CFCF]][[User talk:CFCF| 💌]] [[Special:EmailUser/CFCF|📧]] 20:48, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} - [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 20:09, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 15:56, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Allow users to restrict who can send them notifications ==

This proposal is identical to [[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous#Allow users to restrict who can send them email]] , except it applies to notifications and pings instead. Blacklists and whitelists may or may not be shared, I'll leave this up to community discussion.

* '''Proposer''': [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 08:00, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Allow users to restrict who can send them notifications/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
All good proposals, {{ping|MER-C}} but I should point you to the survey policy [[2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey#What_happens_during_the_proposal_phase.3F|which states you're limited to 3 proposals]]. Just so you know. :) Thanks for participating. -- [[User:NKohli (WMF)|NKohli (WMF)]] ([[User talk:NKohli (WMF)|talk]]) 08:39, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

I'll be happy to take over as the proposer if MER-C wants to pare down his proposals. Anyway, I've been a part of a very difficult talk page discussion where a couple particular users saw fit to harass me with pings even after I requested that they didn't need to ping me. I had to turn off pinging altogether for periods of time. I would have rather blocked these specific users from pinging me. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 00:31, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

:I'll just note that it's a lot easier to get away with harassing someone via excessive notifications (just mention their user name every time you make a comment in a discussion thread) than with email (you have to invent a plausible reason to send the email, and do a lot more typing). So being able to turn off pings/notifications from a specific user sounds like a good idea to me. (A whitelist is less defensible, I think. It seems to me that the effort to create sockpuppets, for pinging, or to mobilize other problematical users to do pinging, would be more effort than it's worth, since adding a name to a blacklist could be very quick.) -- [[User:John Broughton|John Broughton]] ([[User talk:John Broughton|talk]]) 01:22, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

:If we're going to stick with the arbitrary and counterproductive limitation of three proposals per person, then I'm happy for someone to take this over. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 02:30, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
Is there a Phabricator task for this? I wrote the code for it ([[gerrit:320718]]). I would appreciate if someone could file a task for this if one doesn't exist yet. [[User:Legoktm|Legoktm]] ([[User talk:Legoktm|talk]]) 04:38, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
:Done: [[phab:T150419]]. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 12:34, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

I think the idea has potential. But what about an harassment that is done using this functionality? For example a group of users all disactivate the ping of another user as a form of psychological pressure? I would say that a user should not be excluded from more than another user, to prevent that. As soon as this is done a second time, than maybe there is an issue and it should be discussed in a community environment. I would put that limit, it can't be just a shortcut. Also, is it in the wiki spirit that this is forever, or it should be considered always a temporary measure? Third question: should the log book of an user's personal notification management be private or public? Fourth question: would the user be informed if (s)he is excluded from effectively pinging another user? Because if (s)he is, this also proves the possibility of a reverse group harrassment, and in a wiki spirit it should be temporary. If something like that happens, people should always try to resolve the issue. Or what if it is just a mistake for example because a slip of the mouse? You see, there are small aspects but the way they are combined shape a completely different vision of a wiki environment.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 04:35, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
:I imagine these blocks as private, without notifications to those blocked. And they are as "temporary" as entries on a watchlist; that is, the user would be able to edit their list and remove anyone they're blocking. As far as reverse harassment is concerned, I suppose this is a kind of a passive-aggressive thing, but I think the ultimate harm is minimal because, in an active discussion, these users may well come back and see the comment with the blocked ping. It will just be on their own time, without the nag. :) [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 20:29, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

* As someone who belongs to the camp of those who like to be notified, and one who probably annoys some editors when notifying them, I wonder if there is a way to let others know which a camp one belong to. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 22:41, 22 November 2016 (UTC){{small|please [[wp:Notifications|ping]] me}}

=== Voting – Allow users to restrict who can send them notifications ===
# {{support}}. Ping abuse is real. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 02:00, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} the overall research in that direction. Of course the tool will require additional "social" discussion.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:25, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 08:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} [[User:Samwalton9|Samwalton9]] ([[User talk:Samwalton9|talk]]) 09:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:MarcoAurelio|Marco]][[User talk:MarcoAurelio|Aurelio]] 15:13, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ocaasi|Ocaasi]] ([[User talk:Ocaasi|talk]]) 18:36, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 03:58, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:ThePlatypusofDoom|ThePlatypusofDoom]] ([[User talk:ThePlatypusofDoom|talk]]) 17:27, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} as proposer. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 06:05, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Opabinia regalis|Opabinia regalis]] ([[User talk:Opabinia regalis|talk]]) 04:26, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Yeza|Yeza]] ([[User talk:Yeza|talk]]) 13:12, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:MGChecker|MGChecker]] ([[User talk:MGChecker|talk]]) 15:12, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} I don't see any harm in a notification [[User:Studmult|Studmult]] ([[User talk:Studmult|talk]]) 07:39, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} I believe that reporting that user for harassing you should suffice, since turning off notifications from someone who's not actually pestering you goes totally against the notion of a community. '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 20:26, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} I agree with ArgonSim. I also want to point out that editors can configure what kinds of notifications that they do or do not receive. More editors should make use of that ability. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:34, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} If someone pings with BS, -> info to admin -> block -> end of story. No need for a ton of coded ballast. --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:11, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{comment}} When pings are overused/abused by users in talk page conversations, it may just be in a heated discussion (like what happened at [[en:Talk:Kim Davis (county clerk)]] last year), and therefore it seems a stretch to report those doing the pinging, and I'm not sure there are policies to deal with them anyway. Ultimately this has to do with cutting down on annoyances/distractions while we are working in the wikis. And while blocking all pings is an option, it is also the equivalent of swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. I just want to swat the damn flies with a fly swatter sometimes. I don't think this is too much to ask. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 11:30, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Unnecessary. [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 15:57, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Just as you can ask someone not to post to your talk page, you can ask them not to ping you -- and if they persist regardless, there's cause for intervention. As with that, however, there are times when a missing message does more harm than good -- and I can foresee a whole lot of instances of people missing important communications because of this. — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 05:50, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 15:58, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== American Sign Language (ASL) functionality for Wikipedia pages ==
* '''Problem''':
Half of deaf adults read at the [http://vl2.gallaudet.edu/files/8713/9216/6286/research-brief-4-reading-and-deaf-children.pdf 4th grade level or below]. A large contributor to this is the [http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED535143.pdf lack of printed English word knowledge.]. Thus, much of Wikipedia is unintelligible to a deaf reader.
* '''Who would benefit''':
All deaf readers who use sign language, [http://research.gallaudet.edu/Publications/ASL_Users.pdf between 250,000 and 500,000] and anyone who is interested in learning a few signs.
* '''Proposed solution''':
Add some lines of javascript to Wikipedia that will access the [http://www.smartsigndictionary.org SMARTSign Dictionary] (best viewed in Chrome browser)that would allow the reader to select a word in a Wikipedia page and then be shown the ASL video via the SMARTSign Dictionary. For a sample of how it could function and look go to this [http://storage.googleapis.com/catslibrary/books/aladdin/page1.htm sample page] and click on any word and the sign video appears. The same could happen on a Wikipedia page. I already have the code to make this happen with some tweaks. The SMARTSign Dictionary is a project of the Center for Accessible Technology in Sign [http://www.cats.gatech.edu (CATS)]. This is the largest English-ASL dictionary in the world and currently covers 80,000 words and will double in the next year. It was built specifically for tasks like the one described here. I am the director of the project so no other permissions are needed.
* '''More comments''':
Adding a few lines of javascript could make Wikipedia truly accessible to deaf readers
* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Hhamilton|Hhamilton]] ([[User talk:Hhamilton|talk]]) 23:31, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/American Sign Language (ASL) functionality for Wikipedia pages/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet
Harley Hamilton- I am a research scientist at Georgia Tech, developed the SMARTSign Dictionary and direct CATS

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

* {{Ping|Hhamilton}} Word-for-word translation has substantial limitations, and most readers of the English Wikipedia wouldn't have use for this feature. I think you would probably be better off developing this as a browser extension that could also be used on other sites. Also, you may want to take a look at the [[incubator:Wp/ase/AS18517S20500S2ff00M529x544S2ff00482x483S20500519x504S18517503x517|American Sign Language Wikipedia project]] (using [[w:SignWriting|SignWriting]]) on the Wikimedia Incubator. --[[User:Yair rand|Yair rand]] ([[User talk:Yair rand|talk]]) 23:45, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

*{{Ping|Yair rand}} This would not be a word-for-word translation feature. It is an accessibility feature that would allow access for any reader to ASL video for unknown English words. We already have a browser extension for this but it does not work on Wikipedia as Wikipedia blocks YouTube video which is where all our video is stored and served. Also, by adding a few lines of code Wikipedia moves more towards a universal design format. Regardless of whether 500,000 is considered a small group it is still a group that deserves accessibility to the information in Wikipedia. Adding the functionality I suggest would support deaf readers making Wikipedia a truly accessible and usable tool. Currently, it is not such a tool for most deaf readers. [http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED535143.pdf This functionality has been shown to increase the vocabulary knowledge and reading comprehension of deaf readers] —The preceding [[Help:Signature|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Hhamilton|Hhamilton]] ([[User talk:Hhamilton|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 23:56, 7 November 2016‎ (UTC)
** Why (and how?) does "Wikipedia block YouTube video"? (Could someone add a link to that browser extension?) Wouldn't it be much simpler to fix that block (so that it doesn't happen) than to write more code, whether an extension that has to be maintained or code that is part of every MediaWiki installation? -- [[User:John Broughton|John Broughton]] ([[User talk:John Broughton|talk]]) 01:27, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
*** I think he means that we can't embed YouTube videos directly into Wikimedia pages. This won't change, because YouTube (et al) embeds have built-in advertising, and user-tracking, both of which are blockers. (fwiw, I believe [[mw:Extension:Youtube]] is the extension used on non-Wikimedia wikis, to enable this functionality) [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 21:53, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
****But why would there be a need to directly embed ? Sounds like someone just needs to improve the browser extension to not do unsafe things... —[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 11:06, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
*Is there any reason why these videos cannot be uploaded to Commons? This would make this proposal a gadget problem well within volunteer development capability or a dedicated accessibility team, as opposed to a Community Tech one. On that basis, given the highly limited impact, I would have to say no. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 07:01, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

*How would this work for the English speakers who don't use ASL - there is British, Irish, Australian etc sign language and they are different.[[User:Antiqueight|Antiqueight]] ([[User talk:Antiqueight|talk]]) 15:26, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

*There is a [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Simple English] wiki that addresses part of this problem. A browser plugin seems to be the best full solution. [[User:Bcharles|Bcharles]] ([[User talk:Bcharles|talk]]) 23:43, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

* I would support a test or brainstorming for separate sign language projects. We, however, should not look for a solution only suitable for English → [[User:Man77|'''««''']] Man77 [[User talk:Man77|'''»»''']] [[:de:User:Man77|[de]]] 22:19, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – ASL functionality for Wikipedia pages ===
# {{oppose}}. [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:00, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}}, they can read it. --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 22:14, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} Wouldn't wiktionary be a better target for this? [[User:Aracali|Aracali]] ([[User talk:Aracali|talk]]) 05:45, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{comment}} Honest question, why can't they just read the page? [[User:Semmendinger|Semmendinger]] ([[User talk:Semmendinger|talk]]) 19:51, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}}. --[[User:Yair rand|Yair rand]] ([[User talk:Yair rand|talk]]) 20:23, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} duplicates what is already on Incubator. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 04:48, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{comment}} The problem is not unique to ASL users, many other languages wikipedia are underdeveloped and their speakers often rely on English wikipedia for knowledges. There are little reason to cater a specific language in the problem. Two solutions are possible, a.) develop the wikipedia of the language itself, in this case ASL wikipedia, b.) develop a plugin that would display mouseover tip from wiktionary for words that are being highlighted in user-selected language of user have enabled the functionality. 3. The proposed functionality is best served as a browser plugin so that it would work not just on Wikipedia but also every single other site. You might want to take a look at the software named rikaikun and all its related softwares as an example. [[User:C933103|C933103]] ([[User talk:C933103|talk]]) 10:11, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}}.[[User:Antiqueight|Antiqueight]] ([[User talk:Antiqueight|talk]]) 14:03, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{supprt}} any improved accessibility. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 15:52, 9 December 2016 (UTC) {{please ping}}

== Ask new users to disclose paid editing ==

* '''Problem''': In [[Terms of use#4. Refraining from Certain Activities]], we have a section about the prohibition against "Paid contributions without disclosure". As more and more persons around the world come to regard the Wikimedia projects as opportunities to gain free advertising or advocacy, we encounter more and more users who violate these terms of use, sometimes due to good-faith lack of awareness. Such activity severely degrades our content, and can present a very time-consuming need for other editors to correct inappropriate content. Uncorrected promotional content reflects poorly on Wikimedia projects in the eyes of the public. This problem is very likely to get larger in the coming years

* '''Who would benefit''': New editors who are first registering an account would get helpful guidance, and everyone would benefit from wider awareness of, and compliance with, the terms of use. The proposal may not work for bad-faith users who will ignore it, or unregistered users, but there are many good-faith but unaware users who would benefit.

* '''Proposed solution''': During the process of registering a new account, a single new question would be added to the registration process: "''Do you expect to edit Wikipedia for business or promotional purposes?''" (The name of the applicable project would be substituted for "Wikipedia".) There would be a "yes"/"no" radio button to answer. An answer of "no" would have no effect. An answer of "yes" would result in the automatic placement of an informational message on the new user talk page, with information about and links to the applicable policies. At the English Wikipedia, this talk page message would be [[:en:Template:Register-COI]]. The new user could read the message and follow its advice.

* '''More comments''': This idea grew out of the discussion at [[en:Wikipedia talk:Harassment/Archive 10#A process at account registration]], where there was strong support in the English Wikipedia community.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:33, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Ask new users to disclose paid editing/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

The idea of using the account creation process to educate contributors about COI is good. Is there any concern that the template would be viewed as a permanent "scarlet letter"? Let's say a new contributor starts out thinking they're going to write about their business. They get the template, they learn that's not a good idea. Instead, they decide to contribute to a page that has nothing to do with their business -- adding sourced information about something that they know -- but they make mistakes, and an experienced editor goes to their talk page to explain something to them. Then they see the template, which means ''this person is a confirmed, self-reported COI editor!!!'' The question didn't ask what the person was hoping to promote, and therefore, any contribution that they make is potentially COI related. They are tagged with that scarlet letter forever, because the very first thing that they did was a mistake. -- [[User:DannyH (WMF)|DannyH (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DannyH (WMF)|talk]]) 23:14, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
*{{ping|DannyH (WMF)}} This could be solved simply by requiring the user to enter in a blank who/what they plan to promote f they click ''Yes''. This would then be inserted into the template. — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 19:55, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
*This partly duplicates my request for a proper landing page which the Foundation appears to have avoided wanting to to build.
—''The preceding [[Help:Signature|unsigned]] comment was added by'' [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kudpung|contribs]]) 11:19, 13 November 2016‎ (UTC)
::About the issue of a "scarlet letter", I think that can be a function of how the individual project handles it, and it's a problem that can easily be avoided. There is no reason for the template message to create a permanent categorization. For example, at the English WP, it is accepted practice for editors to be free to delete messages on their talk pages, and the proposed template does not imply any past or future wrongdoing. Correctly implemented, this proposal is about providing important information, but not about labeling users. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:11, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

*The proposal seems useful and it will help professional PR people to edit according to the rules. However, in similar way we should deal with the activist editors who are not paid for their editing, but who still have COI by promoting their NGO/movement/campaign or using Wikipedia to fight against some projects/organizations or corporations/persons. Therefore I think the question should be broader. [[User:Beagel|Beagel]] ([[User talk:Beagel|talk]]) 18:37, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for the favorable comment. One issue that arises with respect to unpaid COI is that the Terms of Use do not really address that: they are instead about undisclosed paid editing. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:09, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
*The idea is interesting, but I don't think the newcomers will disclose their affiliation. Particularly when confronted with the phrasing you put. "Are you affiliated with any group or organisation?" could be better. Even-so I doubt people will want to be open-minded about it if they came here to spam. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 00:06, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
::I agree with you to the extent that neither this nor anything else will identify everyone to whom it might apply. (The alternative question that you suggested is way too vague: I'm "affiliated" with all kinds of groups that have nothing to do with my editing.) And there is no need for the user to disclose ''which'' group they might be editing on behalf of. It's just a matter of bringing information to good-faith users who are not aware of it. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:09, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Ask new users to disclose paid editing ===
# {{support}} We definitely should be letting new editors know a few truths about what they can and can't do on Wikipedia, and doing so at the first opportunity, as soon as they register. Conflict-of-interest and promotional edits aren't confined to creating new articles, and about three-quarters of newly signed up editors will be editing existing articles[[User:Noyster|Noyster]] ([[User talk:Noyster|talk]]) 21:29, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} But the language of the query should be phrased more broadly, given the number of new users who deny that they wanted to "promote" their business, claiming that they "just wanted to let the world know about what the business has to offer" (and, alas, I do believe that there are people who genuinely don't understand that those are almost always the same thing) I don't have time at the moment to noodle this in great depth but I'm thinking something more like, "Do you intend to use Wikipedia to promote, or increase public awareness of, a person, group of people, business, or cause?" [[User:Julietdeltalima|Julietdeltalima]] ([[User talk:Julietdeltalima|talk]]) 00:37, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} A good idea which will help paid editors not get caught up in the rules. [[User:Doc James|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 00:59, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Arian|'''Arian''']] [[user talk:Arian|Talk]] 13:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} if it can remove some limbos...--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:50, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} as nom. I've come to feel very strongly that we need to find ways to deal with undisclosed paid editing, and this is a helpful and non-accusatory way to do so. I've been reading the votes so far, and I've thought about that issue of "I just wanted to let the world know". Of course, it's really sophistry to say that there is a difference between that and "promoting", but I can also envision lots of new users who just want in good faith to tell the world about an interesting topic that they plan to write an article about, but that's just good editing. I don't think any question can "catch" all potential abusers, but educating a good percentage of them is a big net positive. And exactly how to educate them is a function of what the talk page message will say. And ''that'' is not something determined here at meta, but should be determined at each project. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:10, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} it's kind of obvious that we need this as another avenue to close "I didn't know I had to do that" loopholes to ToS violators. It will either reduce un-knowing ToS violations, or make it easier to hold willful violators accountable. - [[User:Brianhe|Brianhe]] ([[User talk:Brianhe|talk]]) 20:42, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} making it simple for people to do the right thing is always good. For conflicted/paid editors who would want to do the right thing but don't know there even is one (and they exist!) this will be helpful. Has nothing to do with people who want to deceive, and shouldn't be considered in light of them. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 20:46, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} as someone who works with a lot of COI editors in [[w:en:WP:THQ|the English Wikipedia Teahouse]]. — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 21:06, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} this clarifies a lot of things(which editors are paid[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Dan_Riskin] and which are not)--[[User:Ozzie10aaaa|Ozzie10aaaa]] ([[User talk:Ozzie10aaaa|talk]]) 21:23, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} helps to reinforce that Wikipedia is intended to be an online encyclopedia, and not social media marketing. Not a fix to all COI or advocacy editing, but it's simple and should help. [[User:Geogene|Geogene]] ([[User talk:Geogene|talk]]) 21:30, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} As someone says, it may not keep those inclined to break the rules from trying to do so, but it will help honest persons from doing so inadvertently. I might suggest that, when the ''No'' button is chosen, a much shorter message might go on the talk page saying, "When registering, you indicated that you do not expect to edit Wikipedia for business or promotional purposes. If that situation should change, please visit [link] for our rules governing this situation." Just a thought. [[User:EEng|EEng]] ([[User talk:EEng|talk]]) 22:08, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} should be given a try → [[User:Man77|'''««''']] Man77 [[User talk:Man77|'''»»''']] [[:de:User:Man77|[de]]] 22:21, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Herostratus|Herostratus]] ([[User talk:Herostratus|talk]]) 22:44, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 23:07, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} A step in the right direction, and let each Wikipedia decide how to use the feature. I would consider this part of better onboarding, in general [[User:Czar|czar]] 01:34, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Draceane|Draceane]] ([[User talk:Draceane|talk]]) 10:16, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Trasparency is a good idea. Let people know why they're here to alert others. [[User:Oaktree b|Oaktree b]] ([[User talk:Oaktree b|talk]]) 16:29, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Recently the community in Ghana has come across people who have even stated on their social media profiles that they create Wikipedia pages for fees. Members receive calls weekly with people asking for articles and opting to pay for them. Yet many are not aware of the paid editing terms and conditions. This will be a great idea. And it can help start the paid editing conversation at the get go at editathons where most people create their very first accounts and edit for the first time [[User:Sandiooses|Sandiooses]] ([[User talk:Sandiooses|talk]]) 17:58, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} great idea [[User:LavaBaron|LavaBaron]] ([[User talk:LavaBaron|talk]]) 02:39, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Daylen|Daylen]] ([[User talk:Daylen|talk]]) 06:17, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Kinda... to be honest this is certainly not the top item on my list of things that brand-new editors should be informed of/warned about. I'm not even sure it's in my top 10. But it's somewhere on that list, and it might help orient even non-paid new editors to what kind of content is appropriate, and I'm generally in favor of things that might help reduce the general level of moral panic over the possibility that someone might be a paid nuisance as opposed to a regular one. [[User:Opabinia regalis|Opabinia regalis]] ([[User talk:Opabinia regalis|talk]]) 04:32, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|"?!"]] 15:43, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} as undisclosed paid editing is a real problem, and increasing awareness up-front is a good idea. I don't think this is much of a "technical project", though. :) [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 16:32, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} The way the proposal is written, it'd definitely work as a way of singling out "potential" COI editors. Since the template would be the first thing added to the user talk, anyone could access that first edit and check whether or not the user branded him/herself as a paid editor; in case of yes, the user would be automatically labelled as "that one guy who's probably making money out of Wikipedia", and all his/her edits would be seem as suspicious. I believe that adding an additional step during registration, where the user would select five generic topics of interest like "biology", "geography", "businesses and organizations I'm involved with", would be a better way to prevent users from straight-out lying about their intentions. If they select the last one, they'd have to read a '''resumed''' version of COI guidelines and transcribe a phrase agreeing to it. After that, maybe the software could flag contributions they make to specific pages, like articles that they've been constantly editing (a common feature of single-purpose accounts), but without warning the patroller the reason that edit was flagged, thus decreasing bias. '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 21:08, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
#:I would worry that "businesses and organizations I'm involved with", as opposed to "businesses and organizations I'm not involved with", ends up being a leading question. The other point that you raise is very much like that of the "scarlet letter" in the discussion section above. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:24, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
#::Yeah, I know, but I still think it'd be very damaging to publicly and automatically label users as for-pay/[[:en:WP:SPA|SPA]] based solely on what they declared during registration. Deleting the added template would only hide it from the current version, but anyone could see it by browsing through the history, especially considering that this added template would also be the edit creating that talk page. Having the software deal with SPA edits by generically flagging them as needing revision instead of tagging them as potential COI would prevent patrollers from being biased by this. As for the leading question problem, I also agree that bad-faith users would probably not fall for that, but it's a lot more likely that this same bad-faith user won't admit s/he's expecting to edit Wikipedia for promotional purposes.
#::'''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 22:24, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Zone42|Zone42]] ([[User talk:Zone42|talk]]) 12:21, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 15:58, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} This supposed technical change includes an even bigger social change. Let's do it! [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 19:20, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User talk:DeltaQuad|Amanda]] [[User:DeltaQuad|(aka DQ)]] 21:07, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Tiggerjay|Tiggerjay]] ([[User talk:Tiggerjay|talk]]) 21:10, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[w:User:Ks0stm|Ks0stm]] ([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[w:User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]]) 21:16, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. - [[User:Mailer diablo|Mailer Diablo]] ([[User talk:Mailer diablo|talk]]) 06:59, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Movses|Movses]] ([[User talk:Movses|talk]]) 09:06, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:CFCF|CFCF]][[User talk:CFCF| 💌]] [[Special:EmailUser/CFCF|📧]] 20:52, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Rodrigo|Rodrigo]] ([[User talk:Rodrigo|talk]]) 00:05, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Yup, this is a good step forward. Educating editors who have a COI is a good way to manage the problem. --[[User:Lemongirl942|Lemongirl942]] ([[User talk:Lemongirl942|talk]]) 02:36, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Absolutely no downside to this. [[User:Rivertorch|Rivertorch]] ([[User talk:Rivertorch|talk]]) 05:46, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# '''Weak''' {{support}} — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 05:52, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}} for certain projects. Some projects like Wiktionary and Wikisource don't have this as an issue, there aren't any (afaik) paid editors, so this shouldn't apply to account creation on those projects. Adding this extra step to signup is likely to cause many to just not create an account. Every additional step added to account creation makes a larger percentage of potential users lose interest. --[[User:Yair rand|Yair rand]] ([[User talk:Yair rand|talk]]) 18:36, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
#:As long as I understand from your comment that you do not oppose the proposal for enwiki and perhaps for other projects where it is welcome, then I think that you make a good point, thank you. If this proposal is implemented, I think that it would be fine to initially roll it out at enwiki, before migrating it anywhere else. It is really the 'pedia projects where undisclosed paid editing presents a major problem. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:19, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} - [[User:Akela|Akela]] ([[User talk:Akela|talk]]) 21:55, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:00, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Automatic notification of page creators when page is nominated for deletion ==

* '''Problem''':
I have created dozens of pages on the English Wikipedia that ended up deleted as a result of being nominated but without getting a courtesy notification of the pending deletion As of now I spend a big proportion of my limited wikipedia editing time trying to track down my deleted edits, instead of spending more time building and improving content.

Right now it is only RECOMMENDED that the nominator notify the creator, but this creates a burden that some nominators are reluctant to shoulder. Hundreds of pages are deleted every day but not all the page creators know that their page has been nominated.

* '''Who would benefit''':

* '''Proposed solution''': I would like to request that a process be instituted which automatically notifies a page creator when their creation is nominated.

* '''More comments''': Since Wikipedians believe strongly in attribution, wouldn’t it make sense to also notify those who create content that for various reasons the page they created is not considered suitable?

An automatic notification would help:

*retain good faith editors
*save both nominators and page creators time
*make it easier to track down and maintain statistics of deletion processes
*help prevent abuse

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[:phab:T123866]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 15:40, 18 November 2016 (UTC){{small|please [[wp:Notifications|ping]] me}}

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Automatic notification of page creators when page is nominated for deletion/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* We discussed about something similar for years on itwiki in different occasions. On some platforms it is also compulsory to do that, but users are forced to this manually. The system is much more efficient on commons, where it's just a click. Maybe we can take a look there. Maybe there is another platform that does it, but informing the creator of an article of a deletion should be an easy automatized task everywhere, not something that every platform should implement on its own. Also, it would be nice to inform not only the creator but the most important contributor (edits or added text), as listed in the wikimetrics pages. But this second feature should be possible to be disactivated, and it is not as urgent (although sometimes people who adopted an article are much more interested in helping the deletion process in a constructive way, or they are a user who registered after the creation of the page as an IP)--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 16:54, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
* On Commons page creators are often people that moved the file from other project. We also need to notify the original page creators about pending deletions. --[[User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] ([[User talk:Jarekt|talk]]) 17:24, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
::Good point.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 04:57, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

* Let's encourage the use of tools like Twinkle that do what this proposal asks for completely and quickly. Otherwise, AfD and similar processes are not built into the Mediawiki software, and as such, we can have only tools like Twinkle that can automate the entire procedure of properly starting an AfD. Ultimately, this is a matter for policy at individual wikis -- either people do proper nominations or they don't, and the consequences of such is not a technical matter. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 13:58, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
**{{Yo|Stevietheman}} Unfortunately some of the worse offenders, at least in my experience, are [[w:wp:ADMIN]]s who refuse to notify creators. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 16:25, 20 November 2016 (UTC){{small|please [[wp:Notifications|ping]] me}}
*** …and there are also editors with agendas (see for example: [[w:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2016 Ottawa sinkhole]] and [[w:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of sinkholes]]) that take advantage of a quiet nomination. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 17:02, 20 November 2016 (UTC){{small|please [[wp:Notifications|ping]] me}}
****This seems to call for a policy change. Not notifying all stakeholders in these processes is an abuse of the process. We normally block users who abuse the process, so why not in these cases? If the abuser is an admin, make it potential grounds for desysopping. If you start a policy RfC, let me know and I'll sign on. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 20:23, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
***** {{Yo|Stevietheman}} I truly appreciate your offer. However, I will have to think long and hard before making such a drastic proposal because:
****** It will require a lot of time and effort
****** May get me on the wrong side of some powerful ADMINs, a situation I have been in before, and something I would not wish on any other editor. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 22:29, 22 November 2016 (UTC){{small|please [[wp:Notifications|ping]] me}}
:In [[:phab:T123866]], I proposed that we could "mark" the deletion templates in some way that the notification system will recognize them as such, similar to what the software does with disambiguation templates. [[en:User:Od Mishehu|עוד מישהו]] [[en:User talk:Od Mishehu|Od Mishehu]] 08:50, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
*There is a problem with these notifications (including or particularly with Twinkle which I have experienced several times. It happens in the cases if the page which is nominated for deletion was originally created as a legitimate redirect to the existing page and only afterward this redirect was converted to be an article. In that case, Twinkle will notify the creator of the original redirect and not the creator of the actual article. It would be necessary that whatever tool would make the notification, it should be check the page against the page size after certain edit to exclude notifying creators of the redirect and notifying the actual creators of the article. [[User:Beagel|Beagel]] ([[User talk:Beagel|talk]]) 18:47, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
**{{Yo|Beagel}} Thanks for this information! I have never nominated any pages for deletion so don’t know much about [[w:wp:Twinkle]]. But I agree that notifying the editor who converted a [[w:wp:redirect]] into an article is also important. [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 16:30, 3 December 2016 (UTC){{small|please [[wp:Notifications|ping]] me}}
* I see a fair number of opposes in the votes by experienced editors/admins, and wonder if it is alright to ask some questions?
:The opposers use terminology such as: long term abuse and plain vandalism and I wonder what is meant by it. I specifically wonder whether those comments are aimed at me, since I explained above that many of the pages I started ended up being deleted without notification? [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 16:19, 3 December 2016 (UTC){{small|please [[wp:Notifications|ping]] me}}
* As the title of this proposal is "Automatic notification" I'm wondering why it's categorized in the "Miscellaneous" section rather than being listed at [[m:2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Bots and gadgets]].
: If page creators watchlist their creations, and regularly monitor their watchlists, why isn't this sufficient notification?
:: Oh, I see. This would notify newbies who haven't activated watchlists. [[User:Wbm1058|Wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 16:20, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
: As the operator of the Requested moves bot, which places various notifications of page moves up for discussion, I could probably leverage that to automate notices to user talk pages, though page creators are not currently notified of requests to change the title of their creations. But, to get approval for that at [[en:WP:BRFA]], I would need to demonstrate that there was community consensus for such a bot. You should initiate a discussion on some high-visibility talk page related to deletions, to obtain a consensus for this before bot development can start. A system that discards oppose !votes is not a valid system for obtaining consensus. [[User:Wbm1058|Wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 16:07, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
*I think it bears repeating that this is inappropriate for the Community Tech wishlist as it would effectively force a policy change on all wikis as proposed. Moreover I don't see how it would be doable when each wiki has different deletion processes usually using freeform wikitext. You would have to create a bot with different settings for every wiki. If one wiki has consensus for this, ask for help from CT, but this isn't going to fly on a global level. [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 22:34, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
* It is helpful to develop such a tool especially if I recall correctly some wikipedia already treats unnotified deletion request as invalid request. It should also notify top 5 largest contributor to the page in term of bytes changed which is much easier for computer to identify than human [[User:C933103|C933103]] ([[User talk:C933103|talk]]) 10:20, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
=== Voting – Notification when page is nominated for deletion ===
#{{s}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:27, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:34, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:01, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 08:46, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} [[User:אמא של גולן|Golan's mom]] [[User:אמא של גולן|אמא של גולן]] ([[User talk:אמא של גולן|talk]]) 14:01, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} (although I'm agnostic whether this should also apply to pages created by IP's) [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 17:49, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{Support}} - while many wikis have rules requiring talk page notification of users, there will always be users who don't bother, and mass-nominations can be nearly impossibe for a human being to notify everyone. [[en:User:Od Mishehu|עוד מישהו]] [[en:User talk:Od Mishehu|Od Mishehu]] 20:28, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} --[[User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] ([[User talk:Jarekt|talk]]) 04:13, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 16:13, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} As part of a full deletion workflow, for pages, files... [[User:Trizek|Trizek]] [[:fr:User talk:Trizek|from FR]] 18:04, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}, also the addition of the deletion-nomination-template to an article should have a tag that shows on watchlists. Furthermore users should get the option to have it get draftified or moved to userspace instead of getting deleted right away. --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 20:53, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}} Courtesy notifications are provided as '''a courtesy'''; a feature like this makes leaving notifications an effective mandatory policy, which is ''totally'' out of scope for community tech team. IMO a change like this doesn't require a software feature and should be discussed at the appropriate forum on each individual Wiki. -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 02:34, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Per Fastily. Additionally, there are certain circumstances where deletion notifications are counterproductive (usually involving long term abuse). [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 05:42, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ahm masum|Ahm masum]] ([[User talk:Ahm masum|talk]]) 17:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Grabado|Grabado]] ([[User talk:Grabado|talk]]) 18:46, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Gerwoman|Gerwoman]] ([[User talk:Gerwoman|talk]]) 18:47, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} per Fastily. Also, some page creations are just plain vandalism. I don't want to notify the vandal "Hey, your page was nominated for speedy deletion!" just so I can have fun constantly reverting their attempts to remove the template. — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 21:10, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#:if the user is blocked, he is not informed. Is that enough as a solution? If a vandal is a vandal it does not matter if it appears again on that deletion page or another page if (s)he has not been blocked yet or wants to evade a block. Why we let vandals actually disrupt the need to inform and cooperate between real users? Is it me or is that even worse on global perspective?--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 07:17, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#::Right, and I'm sure nobody here disagrees with you on how to treat vandals. The problem with this proposal is how it effectively forces a policy change on local Wikis at the global level by using technical measures (related: [[Superprotect]]). While I don't disagree that notifications are important, I'm of the opinion that making them ''mandatory'' should be determined locally by each Wiki, and that this <ins>does not</ins> require a technical measure to enforce. -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 22:26, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#:::actually it means they can opt-out. Than of course if their users realizes that they are prevented from being informed whilst other users can, on platforms that are probably still working pretty fine, I'm sure they all ask around and change the local policy and it will require big effort to oppose. Otherwise we are stating here that because some communities may disagree (not at all of them , look at the vote here) ''all'' the local communities have to force their users to a inefficient and fragmented system.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 14:19, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} although i think '''implementation needs to involve merging the notifications and watchlist systems into some one more useful and friendly system''' which does not pop a useless clumsy ugly number (and a tiny popup) like notifications do, and not be so hard to find and to use by newbies as the watchlist. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 00:11, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}}, this proposal mixes the social and the technical. [[User:MaxSem|Max Semenik]] ([[User talk:MaxSem|talk]]) 08:01, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{oppose}} per all above [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 08:15, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Draceane|Draceane]] ([[User talk:Draceane|talk]]) 10:17, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} - Best regards, [[User:Kertraon|Kertraon]] ([[User talk:Kertraon|talk]]) 12:12, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}, though the details of exactly how it works and who it notifies need to be worked out. See my comments above. [[User:Wbm1058|Wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 16:16, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} I think this can be treated as policy development/enforcement at individual wikis, and given policy backing, also resolvable by having a bot (similar to [[en:User:AAlertBot]]'s triggering) testing if a user has been messaged, and if not, messaging them. Also, like mentioned in comments, page creators should ordinarily be watching their pages to see what is changing on them, including being PROD'd or nominated for deletion. WMF might be good for coordinating this, but I'm not sure. I think I lean toward individual wikis working out solutions. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 16:51, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Vicedomino|Vicedomino]] ([[User talk:Vicedomino|talk]]) 19:08, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Studmult|Studmult]] ([[User talk:Studmult|talk]]) 07:40, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} This can be easily accomplished with a javascript-based gadget, and it's already been implemented on pt-wiki, for instance, where after nominating an article for deletion you are given the option to notify its creator through his/her talk page by the click of a button. Maybe stripping out the option to send the notification and automatically notifying instead would get around forgetfulness/laziness. '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 21:16, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
#:Java-based gadgets do exist for deletion nominations on English Wikipedia, but only for users who care to use them and only for single-page nominations. The former tends to exclude many of the newer users who are just starting to learn the processes, and the latter excludes many nominations because there are too many pages (I recently made a nomination of around 28000 pages, tagging them all using AWB). If e use the already existing notification system, we can deal with these issues - and users can opt out of getting the notifications without confusing other users. [[en:User:Od Mishehu|עוד מישהו]] [[en:User talk:Od Mishehu|Od Mishehu]] 04:15, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Sometimes pages need to be deleted because they were created by disruptive users. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:37, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 15:59, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} May help, can't hurt.--[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]] ([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]]) 15:54, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{weak oppose}} - It seems like it would be easier to adjust the instructions for nominating an article for deletion to require notification under particular circumstances, than to figure out how not to create notifications for the many examples outlined above that shouldn't receive notifications. — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 05:55, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} - Helpful. [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 20:13, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:03, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== "Babel" for users area of expertise ==

* '''Problem''': If a user tries to find an user within some field, or someone that can answer a specific question, then s/he must track down that user without any help except the user categories. This is time consuming and error prone.

* '''Who would benefit''':

* '''Proposed solution''': Assume that we make a Babel-like system where we instead of using language codes use codes from [[w:International Standard Classification of Occupations]]. Then assume that we can use a tag in wikitext like <code>#211</code> or something similar (note how it is done in Flow) and that mention of such a tag will then create a notification for all users having the ISCO-code on their user page. The notification could even estimate how close a question is to the user's area of expertise.

* '''More comments''': A user should not be notified if he can't understand the language on the page, although he should be able to get notifications for languages where there exist sufficient translation tools. That could be marked as 0-language codes.
:There are really three different categories for expertise. One is the occupation-like category, what would use the ISCO-codes, another is the current language codes, and a third is the location of the user. The location isn't really an expertise, but an enabler. If something needs an user on the location, then this is necessary factor.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 15:16, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/"Babel" for users area of expertise/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* {{ping|Jeblad}} If I understand correctly, you're suggesting that we should use a globally installed extension for editors to signal that they have expertise in a topic area, ''and'' that they willing to be notified about questions in that topic-area, potentially cross-wiki/language. -- This would be in contrast to the existing systems of (per-wiki) userboxes, such as [[w:en:Wikipedia:Userboxes/Science]] -- And also in contrast to the existing systems of "people signing up for a local WikiProject" (e.g. [[w:en:Wikipedia:WikiProject Earth science]]). -- Is that accurate? Also, do you know if there are other websites that have a similar system, which it would be useful to know/think about? Thanks! [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 01:13, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
::{{re|Quiddity (WMF)}} Yes, I don't think the present user box system works at all, it only makes it possible to find some user. I want the notification routed to the actual users that can answer the question. Note that this will make it possible for users on smaller projects to ask for help, and then get help from users from the larger projects. The more interwoven the projects become the more important this will be.
::Use of a global system does not imply that all users have to be notified for all such tags, it should be an opt-in whether they are interested in notifications outside the local site. Notifications about such occupation-tags should be filtered down on language, and that will limit the number of notifications a lot.
::The problem of local notifications can be turned around to let the sender define the reach or scope of the identifier. Lets say <code>#211</code> is global, <code>#w:211</code> is within Wikipedia, <code>#w:en:211</code> is within English Wikipedia, and <code>#:211</code> is within the local project. Obviously this can be wrapped up in templates, like it is done in Flow.
::I have not considered local subprojects, but I see no reason why it can't be exteded to cover them too. It would also be necessary to define the meaning of the local identifier somehow, like the special page for interwiki links.
::This is a kind of [[w:Knowledge management|knowledge management system]] where the system tries to identify the user that has a given qualification, sometimes described as intellectual capital management systems, and initiate a [[w:Knowledge transfer|knowledge transfer]] between the parties.
::The function processing a tag (or several tags) can run all kind of inference rules, and also generalize if it can't find a good match. The editors holds the overall knowledge, and we want to somehow dig into that knowledge. An inference engine might even use the actual contribution history together with stated qualifications to pinpoint good matches for a tagged question. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 20:23, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
* {{ping|Jeblad}} Isn't this what WikiProjects are there for? In addition to those there are userboxes (and their associated user-categories). But I do think that maybe a message/notification to all members of a WikiProject (not just an entry on the watchlist for a talk page entry) could be useful. --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 20:28, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
::WikiProjects are for a small group of users coming together to solve a problem or a limited set of problems. This is about finding those people before they can form a group. Instead of users following projects, the users can declare their area of expertise. I propose to use the ISCO codes, but perhaps it is better to make up codes as we go. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 01:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – "Babel" for users area of expertise ===
#{{s}} something similar was imagined for years in offwiki discussions and also on some village pump discussion. I support any improvement in that direction.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:27, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} it's long time I'm waiting an idea like this. I think it's the normal development of Wikipedia. --[[User:Codas|Codas]] ([[User talk:Codas|talk]]) 17:40, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Note that the description is pretty simple, but this will be quite hard to implement. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 01:45, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 08:49, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --''[[User:Telaneo|Telaneo]]'' ([[User talk:Telaneo|User talk page]]) 21:45, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- Makes sense [[User:Sandiooses|Sandiooses]] ([[User talk:Sandiooses|talk]]) 18:00, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} – Perhaps the categories of the [[w:Dewey Decimal Classification|Dewey Decimal Classification]] could be used for this instead. [[User:Aracali|Aracali]] ([[User talk:Aracali|talk]]) 16:30, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} I appreciate the problem, but I honestly feel the proposed solution is too wonky. I'll keep an open mind to other possible solutions. Also, we do have WikiProjects, Village Pump, and other places to ask for assistance. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 17:05, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} This ''sort of'' looks like Quora, where you subscribe to subjects of your interest and then receive new questions about them on your dashboard. I believe that a tag system would be better than this ISCO proposal: User A tags new topic/talk section as pertaining to subject 1, 2 and 3; User B is currently following subject 2, so s/he gets notified about this new topic. If user A starts abusing the tag system (like adding too many unrelated tags), someone could request an admin to temporarily implement an Edit Filter for user A, as means to prevent s/he from misusing the tags. '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 21:31, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
#: This is a tag system like the one you describe. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 13:28, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Quite honestly, I get more requests of this sort just on my enwiki user talk page than I can find the time to deal with. I sure would not want more. But maybe there could be user categories that editors could choose to put themselves into, indicating that they are happy to be asked about a particular area. Otherwise, I much prefer having talk pages, such as those at various WikiProjects, where editors can ask for other editors to help. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:42, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Useless. Try to find an active Urdu speaking user on Commons. Without a proper search function this is a no-go. --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:18, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
#:A traditional search system will not work for the problem you describe. It is although possible with this system. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 13:30, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# '''Weak''' {{support}} [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 16:00, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
#:{{U|Muhraz}}, "weak support" templates aren't counted in the survey. I changed the template for your vote, with a qualifier. -- [[User:DannyH (WMF)|DannyH (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DannyH (WMF)|talk]]) 20:00, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:06, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Checking dead links on all projects ==

* '''Problem''': There are so many dead links in WP, this reduces the quality of the encyclopedia.

* '''Who would benefit''': A dead link checker would be of benefit to all!

* '''Proposed solution''': Not easy to know whom to notify about dead links. Maybe a notice on the article's discussion page?

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Kjersti Lie|Kjersti Lie]] ([[User talk:Kjersti Lie|talk]]) 12:02, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Checking dead links on all projects/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
:We have a "deadlinkchecker" package and [[phab:T140388|IABot is using that]]. Also see [[phab:T132606]] about CyberBot. --[[User:AKlapper (WMF)|AKlapper (WMF)]] ([[User talk:AKlapper (WMF)|talk]]) 13:24, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

::For wikis outside of English WP, this is definitely something that Community Tech could work on. Last year, we contributed to [[en:User:Cyberbot II|Cyberbot II]], which identifies dead links on English WP and then replaces the links with the corresponding archived page from [http://archive.org Internet Archive]. Making the bot work on other languages is possible, and [[en:User:Cyberpower678|Cyberpower678]], the creator of Cyberbot, is working on it. But there's a painstaking process to adapting Cyberbot to other languages, because it interacts with all of the wiki's citation templates.
::Meanwhile, Community Tech could build a simplified version, creating a new bot based on the dead link detection code that we wrote this year. This bot could run through all of the external links on a wiki and identify the dead links, and then post a deadlink template. Those marked links could be fixed manually, or by a bot. So this is a worthwhile proposal, for wikis outside of enwiki. -- [[User:DannyH (WMF)|DannyH (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DannyH (WMF)|talk]]) 23:47, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

:::There are hundreds of wikis, where there are so few edits, that a list of dead links will never be worked on. While a list like this is useful for larger wikis, for small wikis an automated solution is needed. Using the bot of Cyberpower or the similar GiftBot of Giftplanze for this seems to be the best solution. --[[user:°|𝔊]] ([[w:de:user:°|Gradzeichen]] [[w:de:user talk:°|Diſk]][[phab:T129747|✉]][[user talk:°|Talk]]) 09:32, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Checking dead links on all projects ===
#{{s}}--[[User:Shizhao|Shizhao]] ([[User talk:Shizhao|talk]]) 02:47, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}}--[[User:Alexander Misel|Alexander Misel]] ([[User talk:Alexander Misel|talk]]) 06:07, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 08:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:34, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}}. This has been of great value to the English Wikipedia, so all the other wikipedias should get to enjoy this benefit. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 14:28, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} --[[User:XXN|XXN]] ([[User talk:XXN|talk]]) 16:13, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Silraks|Silraks]] ([[User talk:Silraks|talk]]) 17:00, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 21:51, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Aracali|Aracali]] ([[User talk:Aracali|talk]]) 03:12, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 08:51, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:אמא של גולן|אמא של גולן]] ([[User talk:אמא של גולן|talk]]) 14:02, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ivi104|Ivi104]] ([[User talk:Ivi104|talk]]) 20:27, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --''[[User:Telaneo|Telaneo]]'' ([[User talk:Telaneo|User talk page]]) 21:45, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:4nn1l2|4nn1l2]] ([[User talk:4nn1l2|talk]]) 12:00, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Freshman404|'''Freshman404''']][[User talk:Freshman404|'''''Talk''''']] 12:52, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 16:15, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Arian|'''Arian''']] [[user talk:Arian|Talk]] 22:34, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Beta16|β16]] - ([[User talk:Beta16|talk]]) 16:30, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Grabado|Grabado]] ([[User talk:Grabado|talk]]) 18:46, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Gerwoman|Gerwoman]] ([[User talk:Gerwoman|talk]]) 18:48, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Vachovec1|Vachovec1]] ([[User talk:Vachovec1|talk]]) 19:55, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} We must expand the Great English Wikipedia's influence! (But, seriously, this would be good to have on other wikis. Perhaps there could be a bot that's developed so it could even work on wikis outside of Wikimedia's network.) — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 21:13, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Louis Wu|Louis Wu]] ([[User talk:Louis Wu|talk]]) 21:40, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} — [[User:KPFC|KPFC]] [[User Talk:KPFC|💬]] 23:03, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 02:49, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 07:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Draceane|Draceane]] ([[User talk:Draceane|talk]]) 10:18, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:14, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Lam-ang|Lam-ang]] ([[User talk:Lam-ang|talk]]) 16:19, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:MohammadtheEditor|MohammadtheEditor]] ([[User talk:MohammadtheEditor|talk]]) 17:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{neutral}} rather than just tag dead links would want to see them "fixed" if possible. [[User:Doc James|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 04:23, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Continua Evoluzione|Continua Evoluzione]] ([[User talk:Continua Evoluzione|talk]]) 14:58, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Tisfoon|Tisfoon]] ([[User talk:Tisfoon|talk]]) 17:58, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|"?!"]] 15:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Praveenp|Praveen]]''':'''[[:w:ml:User talk:Praveenp|talk]] 13:20, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Papuass|Papuass]] ([[User talk:Papuass|talk]]) 21:11, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 22:40, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:19, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} Absolutely. [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 16:01, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. - [[User:Mailer diablo|Mailer Diablo]] ([[User talk:Mailer diablo|talk]]) 06:59, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} - Finding the links is a beginning, not clear what can help fixing. Except for a simpler page archiving solution. [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 20:25, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --10:02, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:07, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Feature for addition of common templates ==

* '''Problem''': A lot of places there are "something" that makes it necessary to add a template. For example a template for authority data. One thing is injecting those templates, but maintaining them quickly turns into a nightmare.

* '''Who would benefit''': All projects using wikitext

* '''Proposed solution''': Make a structure (JSON in Mediawiki-space) that is editable by users/admins that holds (1) a number of ''accept'' and ''reject'' patterns, and (2) a number of alternate ''replace'' patterns. Use the overall result as the wikitext to render, while keeping the original wikitext as the source.

* '''More comments''': This makes it possible to inject templates for default navigation and links from Wikidata, without the added bot maintenance nightmare. If used without any restrictions it can make it difficult to track why something shows up on a page, especially in raw wikitext. This can be avoided by limiting the insertion points to section headers and a few other markers.
:An alternate description of this could be that it is a delayed bot-action that only applies on the rendered content.
:This feature can be used to implement part of [[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata#Move links for lexicon-like external sites to wd-statements, and add them back under section headers]].

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 14:51, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Feature for addition of common templates/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* I would love to see a "Add infobox" entry in VE. —[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 15:46, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Feature for addition of common templates ===

== Fix the bug where pages used by #ifexist show up in Special:WhatLinksHere ==

* '''Problem''': Pseudolinks #ifexist by using the parser. On [[Special:WhatLinksHere]] also pages are disturbing enough, lists that contain templates that use #ifexist. Known since 2007. --[[User:Atamari|Atamari]] ([[User talk:Atamari|talk]]) 11:30, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''Who would benefit''':

* '''Proposed solution''':

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T14019]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Atamari|Atamari]] ([[User talk:Atamari|talk]]) 11:30, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Fix the bug where pages used by ifexist show up in Special:WhatLinksHere/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
For the second year in a row I'm in favour of anyone who propose this fix. --[[User:Andyrom75|'''Andyrom75''']] ([[User talk:Andyrom75|talk]]) 11:44, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
*This would probably be helped/resolved by a solution to [[2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Categories/Search#Hiding_links_through_templates_in_.22what_links_here.22_results|Hiding links through templates in "what links here" results]]. [[:User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic london]] [[:User_talk:Fayenatic_london|(talk)]] 09:08, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
* This item ranked [[2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Results|#62]] in the [[2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Miscellaneous#Error categorization by #ifexist bug|2015 Community Wishlist Survey]]. -- [[User:Wbm1058|Wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 16:41, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Bug where pages used by #ifexist show up in Special:WhatLinksHere ===
# {{oppose}} I'm not convinced this is problem. I consider this a useful feature. [[User:Matěj Suchánek|Matěj Suchánek]] ([[User talk:Matěj Suchánek|talk]]) 21:57, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}, FWIW. We implemented a work-around in one template with this problem, which is going to be a quicker solution than waiting for this one to ever find the light of day. -- [[User:Wbm1058|Wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 16:41, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

== Fix the length of edit summary the non-Latin languages can use ==
{{anchor|Go away from preference of Latin alphabet over Cyrillic and the rest of Unicode}}
* '''Problem''': In edit summaries in Russian and every other non-Latin-based language, you can enter half (or even 1/3) as many characters compared to English or other languages with a Latin alphabet. For example, it is very inconvenient to use edit summaries in Russian Wikipedia compared to English, as one often can't provide enough details in the summary. This is made even worse by the fact that the average Russian word is longer than English. As a result, edit summaries in ruwiki sometimes look like [https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Федерация_(космический_корабль)&diff=prev&oldid=77864822 this].

* '''Who would benefit''': Wikipedias and other Wikimedia sites on languages using non-Latin alphabets. Wikipedias on Latin-based languages would benefit too, as Unicode characters can appear in edit summaries and section headings.

* '''Proposed solution''': Restructure database accordingly to count not bytes, but characters.

* '''More comments''': In 2016, it is rather outdated to depend on ''technical'' specifics of software, not on end-user experience. Say, it is impossible to imagine Twitter to count 140 bytes instead of characters.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T6715]], [[phab:T6714]] (both are not quite the same as asked)

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Jack who built the house|Jack who built the house]] ([[User talk:Jack who built the house|talk]]) 23:23, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Fix the length of edit summary the non-Latin languages can use/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
Not technically feasible -- ASCII characters require one byte each, and Cyrillic and others require two or more by definition. Making ASCII characters = 2 bytes is a pointless waste of resources. Fundamentally, in MariaDB -- the database software used by the WMF -- the [https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb/varbinary/ VARBINARY] and [https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb/varchar/ VARCHAR] type (which would be used to store this sort of thing) counts its size in bytes. There are merged patches (see [[phab:T6714]] and [[phab:T6715]]) to change the data type of the edit summary from TINYBLOB (255 bytes) to VARBINARY(767), tripling the amount of space available, but deploying them will require massive, disruptive and risky schema changes. The WMF will get around to it, but they need to make sure they don't destroy the site in the process. This deployment is a database administration problem, the coding already has been done. There is nothing Community Tech can do here. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 02:24, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
: ''What'' is technically unfeasible? Counting the database field lengths not in bytes? Well, that is obvious, I guess. My proposal is about the experience of the end-user. It doesn't matter, by and large, what the database will look like, but the users of Wikipedias in languages based on other than Latin alphabet should get the same experience as the users of Latin-based. Twitter has somehow overcome this problem, so can MediaWiki. Issues of the machines are irrelevant when there are issues of people. [[User:Jack who built the house|Jack who built the house]] ([[User talk:Jack who built the house|talk]]) 06:30, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
:::To clarify something, WMF will not automatically get around to it, the issue needs to be pushed and we need to have discussions with the DBAs about implementing that schema change (Or doing a different one if that schema change is considered unacceptable for whatever reason). This is something that Community tech (or some other group) could indeed push for. [[User:BWolff (WMF)|BWolff (WMF)]] ([[User talk:BWolff (WMF)|talk]]) 17:45, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
*Well, the database does not necessarily need to count characters instead of bytes, it just needs to have an higher length limit for edit summaries and that is [[phabricator:T6714|T6714]].--[[User:Snaevar|Snaevar]] ([[User talk:Snaevar|talk]]) 00:06, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
** I guess increasing byte length and UI limit could raise questions (after all, it's not just technical restriction—for some reason this length was chosen), while the fact that the lengths across different editions should be the same is less probable to raise them. [[User:Jack who built the house|Jack who built the house]] ([[User talk:Jack who built the house|talk]]) 07:27, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
*(I'm splitting the 2 proposals that were here, into 2 sections, for ease of discussion. Also, renaming this section from "Go away from preference of Latin alphabet over Cyrillic and the rest of Unicode" to "Fix the length of edit summary the non-Latin languages can use" to be more precise about the problem that is addressed here. [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 21:10, 13 November 2016 (UTC))
* I would also like to add that there are 3 special cases when this problem is especially prominent:
# When the section name is long
# When undoing an edit
# When entering the reason for rename
: In this cases the summary is partly filled, and even less bytes are left for providing comments. Check [https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falcon_(семейство_ракет-носителей)&diff=77043309&oldid=75873474 this], for example. [[User:Jack who built the house|Jack who built the house]] ([[User talk:Jack who built the house|talk]]) 21:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
::This bug made entry to bugzilla 10 years ago. I am an active follower of the bug since then. This comment feature is not really useful in my home wiki (ml.wikipdia), as well as other Indian language wikis because of the byte limitation. In our languages, usually Character size is at-least thrice of that of Latin characters and we add different Unicode characters to create usable letters. This together worsens the issue further in Mediawiki. Consider the English word "India", it is five characters and five bytes. Consider Malayalam Word "ഇന്ത്യ" (India), which is 6 characters and 18 bytes. I hope this example will help to avoid lame excuses. --[[User:Praveenp|Praveen]]''':'''[[:w:ml:User talk:Praveenp|talk]] 13:47, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Length of edit summary the non-Latin languages can use ===
#{{s}} [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 08:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:Skydrinker|Skydrinker]] ([[User talk:Skydrinker|talk]]) 13:47, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|talk]]) 13:52, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Vladis13|Vladis13]] ([[User talk:Vladis13|talk]]) 14:17, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:RasabJacek|RasabJacek]] ([[User talk:RasabJacek|talk]]) 15:19, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Cat of the Six|Cat of the Six]] ([[User talk:Cat of the Six|talk]]) 15:27, 28 November 2016 (UTC).
# {{support}}. --[[User:Есстествоиспытатель|Есстествоиспытатель]] ([[User talk:Есстествоиспытатель|talk]]) 15:29, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:36, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Liasmi|Liasmi]] ([[User talk:Liasmi|talk]]) 16:00, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} – [[User:Meiræ|''Meiræ'']] 16:17, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Inctructor|Inctructor]] ([[User talk:Inctructor|talk]]) 16:27, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Kosun|Kosun]] ([[User talk:Kosun|talk]]) 17:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Arbnos|Arbnos]] ([[User talk:Arbnos|talk]]) 17:37, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}! ~ [[User:STARSHIP TROOPER|''Starship Trooper'']] ~ 17:55, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:A.Savin|A.Savin]] ([[User talk:A.Savin|talk]]) 18:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:VAP+VYK|VAP+VYK]] ([[User talk:VAP+VYK|talk]]) 18:50, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Wintik|Wintik]] ([[User talk:Wintik|talk]]) 19:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:MaxSem|Max Semenik]] ([[User talk:MaxSem|talk]]) 19:28, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}.--[[User:Vladimir Solovjev|Vladimir Solovjev]] ([[User talk:Vladimir Solovjev|talk]]) 20:15, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 21:52, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} — [[User:Ping08|Ping08]] ([[User talk:Ping08|talk]]) 21:59, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Permjak|Permjak]] ([[User talk:Permjak|talk]]) 22:01, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Всезнайка|Всезнайка]] ([[User talk:Всезнайка|talk]]) 22:06, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:VladXe|VladXe]] ([[User talk:VladXe|talk]]) 22:25, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Niklem|Niklem]] ([[User talk:Niklem|talk]]) 22:32, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} cur. sit. when u. has 2 con. comm. [https://ru.wikipedia.org/?diff=77864822 like th.] is unacc. [[User:Ле Лой|Le Loy]] 23:14, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Евгений Мирошниченко|Евгений Мирошниченко]] ([[User talk:Евгений Мирошниченко|talk]]) 03:10, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Aracali|Aracali]] ([[User talk:Aracali|talk]]) 03:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:03, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Шнапс|Шнапс]] ([[User talk:Шнапс|talk]]) 04:12, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Mihail Lavrov|Mihail Lavrov]] ([[User talk:Mihail Lavrov|talk]]) 07:48, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Schrike|Schrike]] ([[User talk:Schrike|talk]]) 08:02, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 17:52, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. Tech. impl. sh’dn’t stand in the way of this. [[User:Saint Johann|Saint Johann]] ([[:ru:User:Saint Johann|ru]]) 19:06, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:JukoFF|JukoFF]] ([[User talk:JukoFF|talk]]) 19:14, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. --[[User:Хайзенберг|Хайзенберг]] ([[User talk:Хайзенберг|talk]]) 19:46, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Kolchak1923|Kolchak1923]] ([[User talk:Kolchak1923|talk]]) 20:45, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. --[[User:User№101|User№101]] ([[User talk:User№101|talk]]) 22:12, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. --[[User:GreenZmiy|GreenZmiy]] ([[User talk:GreenZmiy|talk]]) 04:44, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 08:50, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. —[[User:Igel B TyMaHe|Igel B TyMaHe]] ([[User talk:Igel B TyMaHe|talk]]) 09:33, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} &rlm; حمایت از خط فارسی. من خیلی از اوقات برای نوشتن خلاصه‌ویرایش جا کم می‌آورم. &lrm; [[User:4nn1l2|4nn1l2]] ([[User talk:4nn1l2|talk]]) 12:03, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Sunfyre|Sunfyre]] ([[User talk:Sunfyre|talk]]) 12:38, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Azgar|Azgar]] ([[User talk:Azgar|talk]]) 12:59, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}-- [[User:Arash.pt|ARASH PT]] [[User talk:Arash.pt| talk ]] 14:18, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:ShinePhantom|ShinePhantom]] ([[User talk:ShinePhantom|talk]]) 15:23, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Komap|Komap]] ([[User talk:Komap|talk]]) 15:36, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Arian|'''Arian''']] [[user talk:Arian|Talk]] 22:34, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Demidenko|Demidenko]] 01:44, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ahm masum|Ahm masum]] ([[User talk:Ahm masum|talk]]) 17:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ermahgerd9|Ermahgerd9]] ([[User talk:Ermahgerd9|talk]]) 18:47, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Vachovec1|Vachovec1]] ([[User talk:Vachovec1|talk]]) 19:39, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 20:08, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} → [[User:Man77|'''««''']] Man77 [[User talk:Man77|'''»»''']] [[:de:User:Man77|[de]]] 22:05, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 23:58, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:CFynn|CFynn]] ([[User talk:CFynn|talk]]) 05:41, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 07:07, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} '''[[User:Jmvkrecords|Jmvkrecords]] [[Special:Contributions/Jmvkrecords|⚜]] ([[User Talk:Jmvkrecords|Intra talk]])''' 08:13, 2 December 2016 (UTC).
# {{support}}[[User:MaxBioHazard|MaxBioHazard]] ([[User talk:MaxBioHazard|talk]]) 11:35, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Sannita|Sannita]] - ''[[User talk:Sannita|not just another it.wiki sysop]]'' 14:32, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:MohammadtheEditor|MohammadtheEditor]] ([[User talk:MohammadtheEditor|talk]]) 17:17, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Framawiki|Framawiki]] ([[User talk:Framawiki|talk]]) 20:40, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Hercules63|Hercules63]] ([[User talk:Hercules63|talk]]) 21:57, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Dinamik|Dinamik]] ([[User talk:Dinamik|talk]]) 23:23, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Давно пора, ничего не видно. [[User:Мастер теней|Мастер теней]] ([[User talk:Мастер теней|talk]]) 23:41, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Давняя и раздражающая проблема для русского раздела. [[User:GAndy|GAndy]] ([[User talk:GAndy|talk]]) 00:10, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Iniquity|Iniquity]] ([[User talk:Iniquity|talk]]) 08:28, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Tisfoon|Tisfoon]] ([[User talk:Tisfoon|talk]]) 17:56, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Slb nsk|Slb nsk]] ([[User talk:Slb nsk|talk]]) 18:49, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:MGChecker|MGChecker]] ([[User talk:MGChecker|talk]]) 15:11, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|"?!"]] 15:46, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Facenapalm|Facenapalm]] ([[User talk:Facenapalm|talk]]) 16:49, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 17:15, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Esetok|Esetok]] ([[User talk:Esetok|talk]]) 11:55, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Praveenp|Praveen]]''':'''[[:w:ml:User talk:Praveenp|talk]] 13:23, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} because it would not help the many projects that do use Latin alphabets. I actually support doing this on behalf of smaller projects, but I don't want to see smaller projects send so many support voters that they crowd worthy proposals that benefit larger projects out of the top ten. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:44, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Let's fix this before the bug can draw social security benefits. --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:22, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Adv.tksujith|Adv.tksujith]] ([[User talk:Adv.tksujith|talk]]) 01:41, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Ranjithsiji|Ranjithsiji]] ([[User talk:Ranjithsiji|talk]]) 01:54, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:John Vandenberg|John Vandenberg]] ([[User talk:John Vandenberg|talk]]) 02:00, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. - [[User:Mailer diablo|Mailer Diablo]] ([[User talk:Mailer diablo|talk]]) 07:00, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Ynhockey|Ynhockey]] ([[User talk:Ynhockey|talk]]) 10:07, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:This, that and the other|This, that and the other]] ([[User talk:This, that and the other|talk]]) 13:33, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}}. --[[User:Yair rand|Yair rand]] ([[User talk:Yair rand|talk]]) 18:40, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} - [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 20:48, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:مهرنگار|مهرنگار]] ([[User talk:مهرنگار|talk]]) 01:15, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Free choice in the number of category entries ==
Machine translation from German -- please help improve! -- ''Freie Gestaltung der Menge an Kategorieeinträgen''

* '''Problem''':
Currently, categories are fixed by default to 200 entries per page. There are no variations.
::''Derzeit sind Kategorien per Voreinstellung auf 200 Einträge pro Seite fixiert. Es gibt keine Variationsmöglichkeiten.''

* '''Who would benefit''':
Editors and readers who are looking for something specific
::''Autoren und Lesern, die etwas gezielt suchen''

* '''Proposed solution''':
Abolish the restriction and enable free design of the displayed quantity of articles per category page, via a mask that allows entering the number of articles displayed per category page. A search restricted to a category with the option of searching only article titles or the whole article would also be nice.
::''Aufhebung der Beschränkung und freie Gestaltung der angezeigten Menge an Artikeln pro Kategorie-Seite über eine Maske, in der man frei die Zahl der pro Kategorieseite angezeigten Artikel eingeben kann. Eine auf eine Kategorie beschränkte Suche mit wahlweise Durchsuchung nur der Lemmas oder der ganzen Artikel wäre zudem auch was Feines.''

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Marcus Cyron|Marcus Cyron]] ([[User talk:Marcus Cyron|talk]]) 22:39, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Free choice in the number of category entries/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
:I agree. While 200 per page is reasonable for most situatios, there may be users with reason to see fewer (e.g slow connections) or more. [[en:User:Od Mishehu|עוד מישהו]] [[en:User talk:Od Mishehu|Od Mishehu]] 14:35, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Free choice in the number of category entries ===
# {{support}} [[User:Silraks|Silraks]] ([[User talk:Silraks|talk]]) 16:53, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Nocowardsoulismine|Nocowardsoulismine]] ([[User talk:Nocowardsoulismine|talk]]) 18:19, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 21:54, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}}. [[en:User:Od Mishehu|עוד מישהו]] [[en:User talk:Od Mishehu|Od Mishehu]] 20:28, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} The typical viewing 25, 50, 100, or 250 results like on Special:Contributions or the history page for example would be good. [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 01:03, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} → [[User:Man77|'''««''']] Man77 [[User talk:Man77|'''»»''']] [[:de:User:Man77|[de]]] 22:07, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} — [[User:KPFC|KPFC]] [[User Talk:KPFC|💬]] 23:09, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Draceane|Draceane]] ([[User talk:Draceane|talk]]) 10:05, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Fixer88|Fixer88]] ([[User talk:Fixer88|talk]]) 20:50, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Sometimes the 200 limit and thus the pagination is annoying. And it's awfully arbitrary. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 17:43, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 22:05, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 07:04, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Studmult|Studmult]] ([[User talk:Studmult|talk]]) 07:41, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Ynhockey|Ynhockey]] ([[User talk:Ynhockey|talk]]) 10:08, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]] ([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]]) 16:11, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

== Global settings ==

* '''Problem''':
Sometimes a new setting is introduced on all wikis. Recently, it was ''Compact interlanguage links'', before that ''Editor selection'', ''MediaViewer'' etc. When somebody is active on multiple wikis and wants to switch-off (or on) such settings, he must do it on every single wiki.

* '''Who would benefit''':
Users working on multiple wikis

* '''Proposed solution''':
Have the option to check in settings: ''Set it globally''. There should be two checkboxes: one for local setting, second for global setting.

* '''More comments''':
In the next step, it should ask if the user wants to overwrite the setting on wikis where he had chosen a different setting (he already changed it from default).

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T16950|T16950]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 07:22, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Global settings/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*{{ping|JAn Dudík}} Is this [[phab:T16950]]? If so, please feel free to add that as the "Phabricator ticket". Thanks! --[[User:AKlapper (WMF)|AKlapper (WMF)]] ([[User talk:AKlapper (WMF)|talk]]) 09:43, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

*Good idea! Just to give another example where such an option would be very useful: Switch the frontend language or disable/reenable VisualEditor in all Wikipedias at the same time. Often enough it becomes necessary to edit foreign Wikipedias even without having a grasp of their languages, and most foreign Wikipedias are configured to pop up VE on the first edit. Editors, who cannot use VE for technical or security reasons, will then have to blindly navigate to the "Preferences" dialog, switch the language to English and search for an option to disable the VE before they can carry out the actual edit. This is very time-consuming and an unnecessary wastage of their precious editing resources. Global settings would fix this. --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 22:26, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
* A way to change the skin on all Wikis would be also very helpful. -- [[User:Freddy2001|Freddy2001]] [[User talk:Freddy2001|talk]] 11:27, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
* Yes, I always wanted a way to have all projects to have English as the default language.--[[User:Dixtosa|Dixtosa]] ([[User talk:Dixtosa|talk]]) 10:22, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
* This sounds useful. A multilingualinterface setting page (language by choice) when possible seems a good idea. We are cross-wiki users ''de facto'' under many aspects. Of course if some wiki has some reason to opt out, we can discuss it, but the "default" for an established cross-wiki feature should be some sort of meta-wiki management.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 11:38, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
* I can see the usefulness of this idea. It fits well into how various wiki aspects being globalized. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 17:05, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
* I think this was suggested before, not sure where exactly. Certainly a really useful feature. Setting the interface language and email settings on xx wikis is annoying. --[[User:Mfb|mfb]] ([[User talk:Mfb|talk]]) 12:30, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Global settings ===
# {{support}}. This would be make working across multiple wikis considerably more convenient. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 02:09, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}}--[[User:Shizhao|Shizhao]] ([[User talk:Shizhao|talk]]) 02:48, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}}--[[User:Alexander Misel|Alexander Misel]] ([[User talk:Alexander Misel|talk]]) 06:10, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 08:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} [[User:Samwalton9|Samwalton9]] ([[User talk:Samwalton9|talk]]) 09:22, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]]) 14:35, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:MarcoAurelio|Marco]][[User talk:MarcoAurelio|Aurelio]] 15:14, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} --[[User:XXN|XXN]] ([[User talk:XXN|talk]]) 16:09, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} – [[User:Meiræ|''Meiræ'']] 16:24, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 17:09, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -[[User:Nocowardsoulismine|Nocowardsoulismine]] ([[User talk:Nocowardsoulismine|talk]]) 18:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 21:53, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 00:45, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Aracali|Aracali]] ([[User talk:Aracali|talk]]) 03:15, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. I am active in two Wikipedias et caetera ([[Special:CentralAuth/Gamliel Fishkin|more about me]]). [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:08, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} · · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 08:54, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Arian|'''Arian''']] [[user talk:Arian|Talk]] 13:14, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 15:16, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:YMS|YMS]] ([[User talk:YMS|talk]]) 16:32, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Matěj Suchánek|Matěj Suchánek]] ([[User talk:Matěj Suchánek|talk]]) 16:40, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Guycn2|Guycn2]] · [[User talk:Guycn2|☎]] 18:42, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --''[[User:Telaneo|Telaneo]]'' ([[User talk:Telaneo|User talk page]]) 21:46, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 01:12, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 08:56, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} to get rid of visual editor in all wikis by a single click! [[User:4nn1l2|4nn1l2]] ([[User talk:4nn1l2|talk]]) 12:37, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}-- [[User:Arash.pt|ARASH PT]] [[User talk:Arash.pt| talk ]] 14:19, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Trizek|Trizek]] [[:fr:User talk:Trizek|from FR]] 18:04, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{Support}} -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 02:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 05:24, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Nouill|Nouill]] ([[User talk:Nouill|talk]]) 13:22, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Beta16|β16]] - ([[User talk:Beta16|talk]]) 15:57, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ahm masum|Ahm masum]] ([[User talk:Ahm masum|talk]]) 17:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Vachovec1|Vachovec1]] ([[User talk:Vachovec1|talk]]) 19:42, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} No more having to make sure all my settings are the same would be great! — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 20:00, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 20:10, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Louis Wu|Louis Wu]] ([[User talk:Louis Wu|talk]]) 21:35, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} — [[User:KPFC|KPFC]] [[User Talk:KPFC|💬]] 23:08, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 23:58, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 02:33, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:CFynn|CFynn]] ([[User talk:CFynn|talk]]) 05:45, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Draceane|Draceane]] ([[User talk:Draceane|talk]]) 10:06, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:13, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Sannita|Sannita]] - ''[[User talk:Sannita|not just another it.wiki sysop]]'' 14:27, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Entbert|Entbert]] ([[User talk:Entbert|talk]]) 15:02, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 16:04, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Laurentius|Laurentius]] ([[User talk:Laurentius|talk]]) 19:33, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Framawiki|Framawiki]] ([[User talk:Framawiki|talk]]) 20:34, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Fixer88|Fixer88]] ([[User talk:Fixer88|talk]]) 20:36, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Doc James|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 04:24, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 09:36, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Steinsplitter|Steinsplitter]] ([[User talk:Steinsplitter|talk]]) 10:04, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jianhui67|'''Jianhui67]] [[User talk:Jianhui67|'''talk''']]★[[Special:Contributions/Jianhui67|'''contribs''']] 10:08, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Continua Evoluzione|Continua Evoluzione]] ([[User talk:Continua Evoluzione|talk]]) 14:59, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Ping08|Ping08]] ([[User talk:Ping08|talk]]) 02:24, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Yeza|Yeza]] ([[User talk:Yeza|talk]]) 13:15, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:MGChecker|MGChecker]] ([[User talk:MGChecker|talk]]) 15:09, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Dixtosa|Dixtosa]] ([[User talk:Dixtosa|talk]]) 15:15, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 04:46, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Freayd|Freayd]] ([[User talk:Freayd|talk]]) 06:22, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} '''[[User:Addshore|·addshore·]]''' [[User_talk:Addshore|talk to me!]] 10:47, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Andropov|Andropov]] ([[User talk:Andropov|talk]]) 18:29, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} It could be similar to global user page on meta-wiki: all your settings on meta-wiki are automatically copied to wikis where you haven't manually changed them. '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 21:36, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} because it would help individual projects say "no" to features that they do not want. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:46, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:25, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Zone42|Zone42]] ([[User talk:Zone42|talk]]) 12:23, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 16:02, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User talk:DeltaQuad|Amanda]] [[User:DeltaQuad|(aka DQ)]] 21:08, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[w:User:Ks0stm|Ks0stm]] ([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[w:User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]]) 21:18, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. - [[User:Mailer diablo|Mailer Diablo]] ([[User talk:Mailer diablo|talk]]) 07:00, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:TheCatalyst31|TheCatalyst31]] ([[User talk:TheCatalyst31|talk]]) 02:18, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 05:58, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ladsgroup|Amir]] ([[User talk:Ladsgroup|talk]]) 18:34, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} - Go for commonality. [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 20:50, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== New option: Hide bots in logs ==

* '''Problem''': When bots are mass deleting/renaming pages or blocking users (usually open proxies), due to the large number of actions made by bots, it's difficult (for humans) to read logs ([[Special:Logs]]).
::Example: https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F:%D0%96%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8B/delete&offset=20161110130056&limit=200&type=delete&user=

* '''Who would benefit''': All human users :)

* '''Proposed solution''':
::Front end: Add an option to hide bots, eventually as a link with <code>&hidebots=1</code>, like in [[Special:RecentChanges]] or [[Special:Watchlist]]
::Back end: It may be necessary to modify the logging table by adding a column to store info about bot flag of action performer

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[:phab:T21322]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:XXN|XXN]] ([[User talk:XXN|talk]]) 14:45, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/New option: Hide bots in logs/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

=== Voting – Option to hide bots in logs ===
#{{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:34, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:09, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Guycn2|Guycn2]] · [[User talk:Guycn2|☎]] 18:43, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 08:57, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{Support}} -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 02:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 10:55, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}}. [[User:Matiia|Matiia]] ([[User talk:Matiia|talk]]) 23:36, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}}. [[User:LlamaAl|LlamaAl]] ([[User talk:LlamaAl|talk]]) 04:27, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 09:33, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Ping08|Ping08]] ([[User talk:Ping08|talk]]) 02:31, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:MGChecker|MGChecker]] ([[User talk:MGChecker|talk]]) 15:09, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 17:45, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Seems simple enough? --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:27, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 16:03, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

== Human readable HTML emails ==

* '''Problem''': Emails from wikipedia for participants in languages different from English are generally coming in alien language %BD%D0%. 50-75% of the text of the letter comes in the language of (for?) the aliens.

* '''Who would benefit''': participants from Wikipedias, where alphabet without the English letters

* '''Proposed solution''': In wiki-settings we have the option "send emails as html". So who wants to see a plain text that will change this option. For participants must be sent normal HTML emails. To do so, as it is in Echo notifications emails.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T133764]], [[phab:T15303]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Сунприат|Сунприат]] ([[User talk:Сунприат|talk]]) 10:06, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Human readable HTML emails/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
I added an additional ticket regarding sending html emails. —[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 12:02, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
:Well, I'd say the actual text in the emails is human readable, it's just that any included URLs might be encrypted and look really confusing, right? Rephrasing the proposal summary is welcome to clarify that. :) --[[User:AKlapper (WMF)|AKlapper (WMF)]] ([[User talk:AKlapper (WMF)|talk]]) 13:22, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
:* it's not just "looks". From year to year, you make us use it, click inside it %BD%D0%. We are forced to use these links. It's not a "might be", it's "always". Think it's nice for us a multiple of these inside each email:
<pre>Удалить страницы из вашего списка
наблюдения
https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%9E%D0%B1%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0:%D0%98%D0%BD%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B8&action=unwatch</pre>
::--[[User:Сунприат|Сунприат]] ([[User talk:Сунприат|talk]]) 15:48, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
*{{ping|Сунприат}} I think this is a partial duplicate of [[#Non-Latin section headings are displayed terribly in URL anchors]] (above), except that your problem applies to the entire link (not just #section headings). I don't know why the emails are linking to encoded page-names, I agree that it should send a link to https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Обсуждение_проекта:Информационные_технологии instead, if possible. Possibly it is related to [[phab:T13547]] ("Use only ASCII characters in email confirmation links")? {{ping|Tgr (WMF)}} can you help us to understand whether this problem is something that could eventually be fixed (if so, I'll file a task), or if it is something that cannot be fixed at the moment for technical or edge-case reasons? Thanks. [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 20:15, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
::T13547 is specifically about links handled by the software (ie. you click the link in the email, and then something happens, such as your email address gets confirmed). As for human-readability of links, obviously HTML emails are the way to go (IIRC there was a GSoC project to enable it, not sure what the outcome was; see also the RfC to merge Echo to core which HTML emails are probably blocked on). In plaintext emails, you either use an URI, which will look like this since most characters must be percent-encoded, or you use an IRI in which case you risk old browsers being unable to handle it and autolinking in the email client quite likely making mistakes in finding the end of the link. --[[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Tgr (WMF)|talk]]) 21:25, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Ah, [[phab:T15303]] ("Implement HTML e-mail support in MediaWiki") is potentially blocked on [[phab:T128351]] ("RfC: Notifications in core"). Thanks, Tgr. [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 18:48, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
** No, the anchors is a separate painful problem. In the letters we don't get the anchor. (anchors exist in echo letters, but they are "hidden inside" the action buttons). All %BD%D0% maybe "stay", but be hidden using HTLM tags for links. Here's a typical letter http://pastebin.com/vN0Xj82Z - %BD%D0% inside and "a href" and "a link text"! --[[User:Сунприат|Сунприат]] ([[User talk:Сунприат|talk]]) 09:33, 17 November 2016 (UTC) (Can you tell me why in letters so much br, so short text lines?--[[User:Сунприат|Сунприат]] ([[User talk:Сунприат|talk]]) 09:38, 17 November 2016 (UTC))
*** {{ping|Сунприат}} Thanks for the full example. I don't know why there are so many <code><nowiki> </nowiki></code>s. I think we should re-title and re-write this proposal to focus on "Implement HTML e-mail support in MediaWiki", which appears to be the required task for fixing URL display. Does that sound good to you? [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 18:48, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
**** "wish": "people should see the "words", not %BD%D0% in the middle of the text", letter should be short, not a mile long. how can this be achieved I do not know. I do not insist on one specific solution and I think that different methods (for example, they can do so https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1382071 ) should be considered by the "Community Tech team". --[[User:Sunpriat|Sunpriat]] ([[User talk:Sunpriat|talk]]) 22:07, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
***** MediaViewer uses curid to avoid lengthy page names; it's certainly an option. Soon, UrlShortener will be a better option ([[phab:T108557|T108557]]). But those do not make links human-readable, just short. HTML emails would definitely be the decent solution to this. --[[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Tgr (WMF)|talk]]) 03:05, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Human readable HTML emails ===
# {{oppose}} While I can see that HTML emails may improve the situation for some (and I have no objections to use them in such cases), I would strongly opt against making this the default or even make it impossible to select ASCII mails. HTML mails impose a security risk, and since almost all SPAM comes in form of HTML mails, they are often filtered out into a quarantine or SPAM folder. --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 01:29, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}} not convinced this is an issue. -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 02:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:28, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

== Hyperlink from "updated since my last visit" to the diff ==

* '''Problem''': The version history shows me a green text "updated since my last visit" to indicate that a given version of an article is an updated version compared to my last visit. To actually ''see all changes between the last version I have visited and that more recent version'', I have to select both versions and click "Compare selected revisions" to create a diff.

* '''Who would benefit''': All authors who contribute to an article several times over a longer stretch of time.

* '''Proposed solution''': As a straightforward, easier and faster solution, the text "updated since my last visit" could have a ''hyperlink to the diff with the changes between my last visit and that version''.

* '''More comments''': This solution would not add to visual clutter, as it would merely add a hyperlink from a text that is already displayed. By the way, other users may not see the text "updated since my last visit" but may have some other indication, like a coloured dot or something similar, depending on the user preferences etcetera. The same solution applies in this case: the dot or whatever it is would have a hyperlink to the diff with the changes between the user's last visit and that version.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Chris Howard|Chris Howard]] ([[User talk:Chris Howard|talk]]) 12:29, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Hyperlink from "updated since my last visit" to the diff/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

* {{ping|Chris Howard}} Is this the same as my suggestion here?: [[2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Categories/Watchlists#Make_it_easy_to_quickly_see_all_changes_since_last_visit|Make it easy to quickly see all changes since last visit]]. --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 22:21, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

* {{ping|Fixuture}} Indeed the suggestions are not quite the same because the ''Hyperlink from "updated since my last visit" to the diff'' suggestion is for the version history, and the ''Make it easy to quickly see all changes since last visit'' suggestion is for the watchlist. Yet there is a lot of synergy: if the version-history-suggestion were implemented, then the watchlist-suggestion would mean inserting the ''earliest'' of those version-history-difflinks straight into the watchlist. In brief: I think both suggestions would fit together neatly, each adding to the other's usability. --[[User:Chris Howard|Chris Howard]] ([[User talk:Chris Howard|talk]]) 22:23, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
** {{ping|Chris Howard}} Alright, thanks for clarifying that! I'll link to this suggestion from mine later. --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 08:31, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Hyperlink from "updated since my last visit" to the diff ===
# {{support}}. [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:10, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}, as I've said in my suggestion that I linked above I think this would be the most useful / time-saving suggestion of all. --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 22:16, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:52, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Haku|Haku]] ([[User talk:Haku|talk]]) 00:02, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Angelorenzi|Angelorenzi]] ([[User talk:Angelorenzi|talk]]) 14:25, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Continua Evoluzione|Continua Evoluzione]] ([[User talk:Continua Evoluzione|talk]]) 14:49, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 17:49, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} - Perhaps I don't understand properly (in which case, ping me), but is the hassle saved just looking at where the "updated since my last visit" ends, clicking the radio button, then clicking compare? — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 06:02, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} - [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 12:26, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Improve the stability of the page while loading==

* '''Problem''': while a wiki page is loading in a browser, it keeps jumping about as additional page elements appear, especially promo banners or edit notices at the top, but even parts of the navigation bar at the left. Countless times when editing on my tablet I have clicked a link on a page that was mostly loaded, but the page jumped again as one more element loaded, and the wiki acts on the element that ended up where I clicked, rather than the one that was there at the moment that I clicked. For example, it takes me to "Contact page" rather than "What links here", or to "Help:Edit summary" instead of accepting my click on "Save changes". It may also insert a code from a button on the advanced editing toolbar instead of accepting a click within the text. (This is not just fat-finger syndrome.)

* '''Who would benefit''': Editors, especially when using mobile devices.

* '''Proposed solution''': (i) Anticipate the space required for elements yet to appear when displaying the elements that are visible so far; I believe this ought at least to be feasible in the nav bar at the left. (ii) Disable entry in the editing pane until all page elements have appeared; if this would not be universally popular, then give us a preference setting. (iii) Prioritise improvements in speed of loading page elements.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[:User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic london]] [[:User_talk:Fayenatic_london|(talk)]] 09:01, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Improve the stability of the page while loading/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* Not bad, I hope we could do something in this direction.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 09:43, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
* I think this is mostly solved for as far as it is solvable. The fact that we need to target different audiences, and by having 100s of tools that need to be visible and/or not for each and every page depending on the user, sort of complicates this problem beyond the ability to solve it. We could consider making the central banners completely float, but I don't think that many people would appreciate that either. If you disable Javascript, then you have fewer tools, but also no problems like these. —[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 12:07, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
* This is one of the minor problems on the Wikipedia that drives me the most batty, and I was considering proposing this myself. I too end up frequently clicking the wrong tab, like clicking "View history" when I meant to click "Edit". Like TheDJ suggests, there are limitations to what can be done because of how webpage design and personal preferences work together. But, I think we should try to find ways to reduce misclicking incidents. One seemingly simple idea: On the Vector skin, there's two sets of page tabs, one starting from the left (e.g., [Article] [Talk]), and the other from the right (starting with e.g. [Read] [Edit] [View history]) -- it's the tabs on the right that pose a problem as they fill in, moving left, as the page loads. Why not have all tabs load from the lefthand side, moving right, so that you'll know the tab will still be there when you click it? Otherwise, perhaps menu elements (and their relative positions) could be cached or locked somehow. Or have JavaScript run with much better performance. :) Seriously, though, maybe there's many minor interface tweaks that are possible to reduce the jumping around. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 19:59, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
* I have the same issue on Commons I often click on a link which just jumped around and I am heading to a wrong page. Very annoying. But I am not sure if there is a solution other than not using any gadgets that change the interface. --[[User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] ([[User talk:Jarekt|talk]]) 04:13, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
::yes that occurs so many times! And since it happens when the upload is slow, getting back to the original page to re-click the right link is also slow itself.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 04:15, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
* Repositioning to the anchor after all loading is finished is something that could be tried (although it does more harm than good). --[[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Tgr (WMF)|talk]]) 03:08, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Stability of the page while loading ===
# {{support}} per my discussion above. Anything that can be done to improve the positional stability of page elements as the wiki page loads will be good for common use of the wikis. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 01:57, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} It's hugely annoying, especially on mobile, to have to guess when the page has finished loading in case you click something by accident. [[User:Samwalton9|Samwalton9]] ([[User talk:Samwalton9|talk]]) 09:23, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} This is particularly an issue when loading the wikitext edit page. [[User:This, that and the other|This, that and the other]] ([[User talk:This, that and the other|talk]]) 11:10, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} huge problem for power users, [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:37, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} A feature with a high nuisance value: you follow a link to one of many threads on a big discussion page; you are taken straight there; start reading and then the thing's gone and to find it again do you have to go six screens up or six down?[[User:Noyster|Noyster]] ([[User talk:Noyster|talk]]) 21:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:11, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:YMS|YMS]] ([[User talk:YMS|talk]]) 16:33, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 17:54, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --''[[User:Telaneo|Telaneo]]'' ([[User talk:Telaneo|User talk page]]) 21:47, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} This also happens when I click on a link with a section in it. For example, I'll click on a section link that takes me to a section on [[w:WP:ANI]]. It takes me to the section, then an additional element on the page loads, causing the section to (usually) go below where it took me, so I have to then scroll down to find it again. (I hope that all made sense.) — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 20:09, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Gollem|Gollem]] ([[User talk:Gollem|talk]]) 20:22, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} I agree this is annoying. I'm afraid, though that this won't be actionable as it's usually caused by addtional features like user scripts. [[User:Matěj Suchánek|Matěj Suchánek]] ([[User talk:Matěj Suchánek|talk]]) 21:13, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} encounter this problem too particularly on big pages, agree it is annoying [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 00:00, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 02:34, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 07:25, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Fixer88|Fixer88]] ([[User talk:Fixer88|talk]]) 20:37, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jack who built the house|Jack who built the house]] ([[User talk:Jack who built the house|talk]]) 21:19, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} // [[User:Martin Kraft|Martin Kraft]] ([[User talk:Martin Kraft|talk]]) 23:45, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} I hate this problem. It slows down my editing when what I am trying to click on keeps moving. I want the things to hold still. [[User:Doc James|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 04:14, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Ping08|Ping08]] ([[User talk:Ping08|talk]]) 02:47, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Gareth|Gareth]] ([[User talk:Gareth|talk]]) 10:45, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}: Should be useful - Best regards, [[User:Kertraon|Kertraon]] ([[User talk:Kertraon|talk]]) 11:59, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} - '''[[:it:s:Utente:OrbiliusMagister|εΔ]][[:it:s:Discussioni utente:OrbiliusMagister|ω]]''' 20:50, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} Wikidata is especially susceptible to this. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 04:47, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} '''[[User:Addshore|·addshore·]]''' [[User_talk:Addshore|talk to me!]] 10:47, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Andropov|Andropov]] ([[User talk:Andropov|talk]]) 18:33, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 21:39, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} Yes, I've been aggravated by this problem too, but I question whether there is a practical fix for it. Some of the problem is with browser performance, and some of it is because there are various sub-elements such as templates on each page. I think having the edit screen not display until everything is loaded will just result in blank screens for a long time. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:52, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} I would love to see this fixed. It seemed to get worse after the introduction of [[Wikipedia:Notifications/Thanks]]. Discussion [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_146#Page_jumping here] in May. [[User:SlimVirgin|SarahSV]] [[User_talk:SlimVirgin|talk]] 05:13, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 16:03, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Annoying problem! [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 19:22, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# '''Strong''' {{support}} Yes please, definitely! [[w:User:Ks0stm|Ks0stm]] ([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[w:User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]]) 21:19, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# '''Strong''' {{support}} -- [[User talk:DeltaQuad|Amanda]] [[User:DeltaQuad|(aka DQ)]] 21:27, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. - [[User:Mailer diablo|Mailer Diablo]] ([[User talk:Mailer diablo|talk]]) 07:00, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} God, yes. Playing "hunt the edit summary bar" after doing a quick revert is driving me nuts.--[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]] ([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]]) 16:14, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Not a Wikipedia-exclusive problem, but certainly a frustrating one. [[User:TheCatalyst31|TheCatalyst31]] ([[User talk:TheCatalyst31|talk]]) 02:20, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# '''Strong''' {{support}} love this — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 06:02, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} I'm forever logging myself out when I mean to click my contributions. [[User:Espresso Addict|Espresso Addict]] ([[User talk:Espresso Addict|talk]]) 04:00, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:11, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Linking of accounts controlled by one user ==

* '''Problem''': Many users control multiple accounts in addition to their main account, such as bots, staff accounts, or general test accounts. We don't currently have a good way to explicitly link these accounts or allow aspects of them (e.g. notifications, talk pages) to be shared.

* '''Who would benefit''': All users with multiple accounts; likely to be primarily experienced users

* '''Proposed solution''': It might take some discussion to find the most desired aspects to this problem, but suggestions include (optional, per linked account) notification sharing, automatically linked talk pages, shared preferences, or even shared login details. Perhaps users could be allowed to switch between their linked accounts on the fly (from a drop down menu next to their username, top right, for example).

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[Phab:T16409|T16409]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Samwalton9|Samwalton9]] ([[User talk:Samwalton9|talk]]) 11:25, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Linking of accounts controlled by one user/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*I can see several instances where such a feature could be useful, but I can't see it as a development priority [[User:Kudpung|Kudpung]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]]) 11:28, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
* I keep asking it. There is also some confusion about the role of allowed suckpuppets. I mean rules are not the same everywhere, and that's a long-term problem. And I find so frustrating also that WIR have to create a new account but there is no way to link it in an efficient way to their main private account, and they write this information here and there, so dispersive. We should in SUL perspective provide an interface where we take the account B (WIR, sockpuppet, bot...) and we store an official information that it belongs to us, account A, too. So people can get this info easily form whichever platform and language they're active. I'm not saying it should be compulsory, but for some of us would be useful. And that's only about the shared information, than there's the rest suggested in the proposal (for example preferences management, being able to open them for both at same time and decide what should be different and what not)--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 15:07, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

There was a similar proposal by {{U|JAn Dudík}}, which is archived here: [[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Archive#Link main account with bot accounts in notifications|Link main account with bot accounts in notifications]]. -- [[User:DannyH (WMF)|DannyH (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DannyH (WMF)|talk]]) 01:52, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Linking accounts controlled by one user ===
#{{Support}} As proposer (if I'm allowed!). [[User:Samwalton9|Samwalton9]] ([[User talk:Samwalton9|talk]]) 09:23, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{Support}}. [[User:Jules78120|Jules78120]] ([[User talk:Jules78120|talk]]) 12:31, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{Support}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 21:54, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} I want to be sure that when I revert a bot eddit, the owner of a bot will see this. [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 08:59, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} For me it can be very useful to standardize the use of multi accounts. And more generally, in WMF there are to many redondant user page/user talk page, etc. --[[User:Nouill|Nouill]] ([[User talk:Nouill|talk]]) 13:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} as a security risk for Administrators, CheckUsers, Bureaucrats, etc.. We don't want someone gaining access to an admin's non-admin account (Some admins create one for use on public computers.) and then gaining access to the admin's actual admin account using this. — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 20:24, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} for notifications only, and any connecting between accounts should not involve login info (per security), but instead a Bluetooth-like handshaking (one account requests and the other account accepts, and either can disconnect at any time). Otherwise, this would seem insecure per Gestrid. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 14:03, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Not often needed feature with high-security risks. I use redirects and that works just fine. --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:32, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} This has implications for important institutional partnerships, as currently, it is challenging for organizations to partner with Wikipedia. Development of this functionality would guide future partnerships. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 19:24, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:33, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Make it easy to embed Wikimedia content ==

:''Note'', this is also [[m:Grants:IdeaLab/Make_it_easy_to_embed_Wikimedia_content|an idea over at IdeaLab]]

* '''Problem''': There needs to be a consistent, easy way to embed and reuse Wikimedia content outside of WMF-supported wikis. The ability to embed content has been incredibly successful for other online resources of media - Flickr, Soundcloud, YouTube, TED, Instagram and more. Especially with the declining importance of Google in mediating the Internet, exposing the content within our movement outside of our corner of the world can draw more people back to our projects.

* '''Who would benefit''': People who reuse Wikimedia content outside of our wiki ecosystem and the many contributors who wish to see their contributions used with appropriate attribution. GLAM, researchers, journalists, writers, and the average person sharing a link on social media.

* '''Proposed solution''': Expose a metadata schema(s) from Wikimedia content sources (article and file URLs are the most obvious) that would allow other parts of the web to consistency, easily, and richly embed content within their web sites.

* '''More comments''': Please visit the [[m:Grants:IdeaLab/Make_it_easy_to_embed_Wikimedia_content|entry at IdeaLab]] for examples and more information.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':
** https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T56829 - Implement support for sharing protocols (tracking)
** [[phab:T27854|https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T27854]] - Expose image thumbs, embedded video players via oEmbed (API + discovery <link rel>)
** [[phab:T142243|https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T142243]] - Add open graph meta tags
** [[phab:T142090|https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T142090]] - Add hover-card like summary to open graph meta data

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Ckoerner|Ckoerner]] ([[User talk:Ckoerner|talk]]) 15:11, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Make it easy to embed Wikimedia content/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*Not just embedding into websites, but also basic sharing to common social media sites would be great to have. We shouldn't have to rely on search engines for folks to find Wikipedia content. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 15:25, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
*A relatively lightweight (albeit partial) solution to this problem would be to implement some standard like [http://ogp.me/ Open Graph] as mentioned in the task. That would let us add metadata to pages like its title, image, and so on, to avoid the problem of badly cropped images, weird titles, or text snippets that are too long when an article is shared. The advantage of this is that Open Graph uses an [http://www.openwebfoundation.org/ Open Web Foundation] licence, so it's not proprietary at all; anyone who reuses our content could benefit from it. Other more complex (and potentially more rewarding) solutions would likely involve more integration with specific proprietary platforms; I don't have anything against that in principle, but it does tend to be looked down on by others. --[[User:Deskana (WMF)|Dan Garry, Wikimedia Foundation]] ([[User talk:Deskana (WMF)|talk]]) 01:14, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Easy embedding of Wikimedia content ===
# {{support}} Long overdue. Needed years ago. Wikis shouldn't depend mostly on search sites for content discovery. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 02:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:34, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Long overdue, [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:38, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} We are essentially about sharing, and the ability to embed while carrying metadata would be a transformative capability! [[User:Ocaasi|Ocaasi]] ([[User talk:Ocaasi|talk]]) 18:33, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 15:17, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:53, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}, why is it not possible to easily embed a Wikipedia article right now? --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 20:30, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ahm masum|Ahm masum]] ([[User talk:Ahm masum|talk]]) 17:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} As a Bureaucrat for a (relatively small in comparison) wiki that's outside the Wikimedia "network", I definitely support this. There are too many features that are either exclusive to Wikimedia wikis or just too hard to access/ implement in other wikis. — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 20:30, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Louis Wu|Louis Wu]] ([[User talk:Louis Wu|talk]]) 21:38, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}}, especially for reasons of improved attribution [[User:Czar|czar]] 01:30, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 02:38, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Sannita|Sannita]] - ''[[User talk:Sannita|not just another it.wiki sysop]]'' 14:28, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Fixer88|Fixer88]] ([[User talk:Fixer88|talk]]) 20:38, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Gareth|Gareth]] ([[User talk:Gareth|talk]]) 10:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} But make it in a way that the user doesn't have to magically find out s/he can do it by accidentally clicking a mysterious link on the tools sidebar. It should be intuitive and obvious. '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 22:49, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} in a general sense. It's what the purpose of Wikimedia really is. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:54, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 16:04, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ciridae|Ciridae]] ([[User talk:Ciridae|talk]]) 09:55, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Make it possible to "+1" statements on talk pages ==

* '''Problem''': It is extremely difficult for the community to deal with destructive or even toxic statements on a talk page. Ideally, good-faith editors should step up and add individual messages of "counter speech" addressing the issue or add messages of support to those who have done so. However, only few users choose this option and most simply try to ignore destructive statement. This gives such destructive statements undue weight on talk pages, creating unwelcoming environments. It would be good if the community had a tool to ''visibly'' reward or support helpful and constructive statements.

* '''Who would benefit''': everyone

* '''Proposed solution''': Create a functionality that enables users to visibly express their support for a statement on a talk page.

* '''More comments''': This proposal is inspired by the existing [[:mw:Extension:Thanks/de|''Thanks'' extension]], which gives the community a possibility to reward edits ''invisibly''. And yes, I know that talk pages are broken, but we need to find ways to make them a more constructive and welcoming environment.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Gnom|Gnom]] ([[User talk:Gnom|talk]]) 22:24, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Make it possible to "1" statements on talk pages/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
Please feel free to edit the text of this proposal. --[[User:Gnom|Gnom]] ([[User talk:Gnom|talk]]) 22:24, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

I am afraid this will discourage minority views, which in the current environment can turn around a discussion given that it is well-expressed and based on policies/guidelines. We should not want to popularize viewpoints when having a discussion about the development of an article. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 18:55, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
:Hi [[User:Stevietheman|Stevietheman]], how do you think this will discourage minority views? --[[User:Gnom|Gnom]] ([[User talk:Gnom|talk]]) 19:04, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
::I think this would be obvious to most Wikipedians that a +1 would make it easier to "pile on" (without having to even justify the positive feeling). "Piling on" discourages other viewpoints, naturally. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 20:04, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
:::My feeling is quite the contrary. I have the impression that on platforms that allow users to visibly show their support for existing messages such as Facebook, Twitter and (especially) Reddit, this encourages the creation of more useful messages. Also, it can make discussions more easy to follow so there is even more room for other viewpoints. --[[User:Gnom|Gnom]] ([[User talk:Gnom|talk]]) 21:47, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
::::This is not Facebook. This is a serious encyclopedia development community that ''expects'' editors to state why they agree with an idea, not just that they agree. +1 dramatically reduces the seriousness of the overall effort. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 13:30, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::Nobody ever said that this is Facebook. Nobody stops editors to state why they agree with an idea ''if'' they have any additional thoughts to share which are not a pure waste of time by having to rephrase a previous comment instead of being able to give a simple +1 or "I agree". --[[User:Malyacko|Malyacko]] ([[User talk:Malyacko|talk]]) 14:37, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::I wonder if anyone stops to think if there's any purpose for something. There's no purpose for a +1 in an encyclopedia. We don't need populism here. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 23:01, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
* This is a good idea, and has proven itself on sites with a lot more trolling than the Wikimedia sites. There are several measures that can be taken to stop misuse, like only giving each user a very limited number of points to assign, and also to add a cost function. A cost function is something you have to do to earn the right to such points. You must earn them first, then you can assign them.
: Equally important, or perhaps even more important, is it to be able to "-1" rude remarks. The problem with this is that a "-1" can be used even more trollish than a "+1" as a popular vote. One way to avoid use of the points for trolling is to only act on the points on certain threshold. It must above or below a certain value before it is shown in the thread. Positive threshold could be as low as a single point, but negative threshold could be -2 or -3. If the positive threshold is always shown people will get used to rank statements, even if negative ranking doesn't always count.
: By being able to accumulate both positive and negative remarks the community can counteract unwanted behavior. This will not stop groups from cooperating on "voting up comments". There is a trick that can be used to stop cooperating groups, and that is to check for common behavior between individual users. By checking the correlation (could be Bayesian estimator) against a threshold, and using the result for stopping the user from upranking or downranking a comment, will effectively block any cooperative action from a group.
: It could even be possible to add a small limit in time or contributions after a user logs in again, and the time could even be measured from the time of the comment. Thereby enforcing some time for the users calm down.
: Users can also be given a metaranking. That is simply a rank on how good they follow ranking given by other users. If they deviate too much from ranking by other users, then their ability to rank comments will be lowered, or even removed completely. That imply that new users should only be allowed to assign points with low weights. As they earn their rights they will assign points with more weight.
: It is a good idea, but it is a bit more involved than it seems at first. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 23:53, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
:If this +1 is to be signed, I would not object. If it is to be totally anonymous, I would oppose strongly.· · · [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] [[User talk:Pbsouthwood|(talk)]]: 09:03, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
=== Voting – "+1" statements on talk pages ===
#{{oppose}} This isn't Reddit, and I don't see how this could be implemented on free-form wikitext discussion pages. [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 08:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{oppose}} per my concerns stated above. In the development of serious works, participants should have to explain why they support something, not just do the equivalent of "me too!". [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 14:35, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} It's important to give editors more ways to voice their opinions. One issue on Wikipedia is that only a minority of editors participate in many discussions. A +1 system could encourage constructive participation. -[[User:Nocowardsoulismine|Nocowardsoulismine]] ([[User talk:Nocowardsoulismine|talk]]) 18:32, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#:Maybe we should look at this in the inverse. Maybe it's good that only those who are willing to back up their opinion with an explanation are participating in the development of an ''encyclopedia''? What value do empty opinions bring besides some kind of sensation, to the development of a serious work? [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 18:42, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#::A simple gesture of agreement is a valid form of feedback. If it wasn't, then polling, voting, etc. would be useless. Sometimes, there is nothing "wordy" to add after an eloquent editor sums up an argument. It would be interesting to know whether anybody indeed agrees with that person, or if they are alone in their views. A plus button would help better gauge the community's view on matters.
#::This may also benefit editors with intellectual/language/learning differences which make it difficult to formulate gramatically correct sentences. It can also give a mode of expression to timid editors, or newbies who are reluctant to join in discussions with veteran editors. -[[User:Nocowardsoulismine|Nocowardsoulismine]] ([[User talk:Nocowardsoulismine|talk]]) 18:10, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#:::We have 'thanks' for simple gestures of agreement, but luckily they don't become part of a serious professional discussion. Also, I don't think there should be accommodations for timidity in a professional development environment (what job provides for timidity?). And newbies shouldn't feel excluded because they are free to comment and receive feedback on their views, ''so they will learn''. How do we more experienced folks respond to a "+1"? We can't. It's devoid of anything to respond to. "+1" is ''not'' discourse and thus does not belong on a talk page. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 22:36, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} Can't see why this is done years ago. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 01:48, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}}   -1   [[User:Aracali|Aracali]] ([[User talk:Aracali|talk]]) 03:21, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Guycn2|Guycn2]] · [[User talk:Guycn2|☎]] 18:45, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --''[[User:Telaneo|Telaneo]]'' ([[User talk:Telaneo|User talk page]]) 21:48, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} Not Facebook etc. --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 01:37, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} Normally, users must not read other users' talk pages! [[User:4nn1l2|4nn1l2]] ([[User talk:4nn1l2|talk]]) 12:50, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Trizek|Trizek]] [[:fr:User talk:Trizek|from FR]] 19:41, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}} Please don't. This isn't reddit -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 02:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Per above -- interactions with other editors require effort, free-form discussion and should be backed with argument. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 05:28, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ahm masum|Ahm masum]] ([[User talk:Ahm masum|talk]]) 17:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}}. Votes can on occasion be useful, but turning everything into a vote by allowing easy votes on every single comment would lower the quality of discussion and harm the collaborative nature of the projects. --[[User:Yair rand|Yair rand]] ([[User talk:Yair rand|talk]]) 20:19, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} per all the other '''Opposes''' here. — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 20:33, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}}, if i dislike a comment i need to deal with it manually. [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 00:00, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} waste of resources, and would probably shove us into Flow. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 04:46, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} for +1 and -1. Or even better, redesign the entire discussion system to not just use a standard wikitext page. --[[User:WinTakeAll|WinTakeAll]] ([[User talk:WinTakeAll|talk]]) 22:15, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} This would definitely induce users to think highly of thumbed-up contributions and unconsciously side by them. '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 22:55, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Discussions should be discussions, not votes. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:55, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} '''+1''' [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 19:24, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} while I was inclined to think yes, all this does is tip the discussion to the populous discussion, which isn't what we're about. [[User:Tiggerjay|Tiggerjay]] ([[User talk:Tiggerjay|talk]]) 21:12, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{strong oppose}} Opening a huge can of worms. If it just creates a line that says "+1" and signs, then it's barely a time saver and will result in clutter; if it results in some sort of tally like in FaceBook, then we're looking at new facebooky/reddity norms developing whereby there are votes, scores, numbers substituting for actual discussion, feelings detached from actual editors... madness! Even if we say "such and such is not a vote" or "the quality of competing arguments is not about numbers", we all know that to some extent the things that are "not a vote" ''are'' votes, and that numbers ''influence''. Normal oppose in the first scenario, strongest possible oppose in the second. — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 06:09, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} A <code>+1</code> button is too fuzzy, you won't know why the contributor push the button. A button like "I agree this statement" or "This statement have relevant source" would be far better. You might even add a "Thank the user for this comment", if it doesn't already exist. But a <code>+1</code> can mean to much things in such an informal context as discussion pages. --10:08, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:35, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} Not Facebook [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 18:52, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Mark thanked edits automatically patrolled for some users ==

* '''Problem''': If I am busy and I want to thank a edit, I'd probably forget to mark it as patrolled. That's not very efficient. As I have suggested in [[d:Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2016/09#Thanking_and_patrolling]] in order to refine the patrolling system, it would be nice to test on some platforms an additional feature for users with patroller rights (or whichever more advanced flag the community prefers) to automatically mark as patrolled an edit when it is thanked. At least on wikidata none opposed, and that is a quite big community, where patrolling of items is very important, as it affects other platforms. It's a drop in the ocean, but it is still a little step forward a more efficient edits revision workflow. Thank you.

* '''Who would benefit''': all projects that need a slight increase in efficiency in their patrolling workflow, and have a clear group of users with a flag they trust. It's not different than the shortcut we give to rollbackers, for example.

* '''Proposed solution''': for patrollers, or for some other class of trusted users, it should be possible to chose in the preference an option that mark as patrolled an edit that has been thanked. At least in some namespace, like ns0.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 04:48, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Mark thanked edits automatically patrolled for some users/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
Good idea --[[User:Achim55|Achim]] ([[User talk:Achim55|talk]]) 20:49, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Mark thanked edits automatically patrolled for some users ===
# {{support}} "''It's a drop in the ocean, but it is still a little step forward a more efficient edits revision workflow.''": yes! [[User:Jules78120|Jules78120]] ([[User talk:Jules78120|talk]]) 12:33, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 17:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} It will also encourage users thank more offen. [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 08:49, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Trizek|Trizek]] [[:fr:User talk:Trizek|from FR]] 19:42, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Julia W|Julia]]\[[User_talk:Julia W|talk]] 22:57, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Nouill|Nouill]] ([[User talk:Nouill|talk]]) 13:14, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Framawiki|Framawiki]] ([[User talk:Framawiki|talk]]) 20:35, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Fixer88|Fixer88]] ([[User talk:Fixer88|talk]]) 20:38, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:SBaker43|SBaker43]] ([[User talk:SBaker43|talk]]) 22:56, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} for edit patrolling, but absolutely not for new page patrolling. I'm mentioning the latter just in case there's any confusion. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 14:18, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#:it depends of the flag architecture, as some wikis do not have a new page patrolling system, they just have a edit-base patrolling system or a version-base patrolling (there are different way to patrol, also expert users unfortunately sometimes make a lot of confusion between them). in edit-based patrolling system if a patroller think a page is ok, there isprobably no problem ''per se'' to thank the creation of the page, that means for example the first edit that creates the page, if it is of a good level. In any case, every platform will see what to do. They just have to know ''how'' they patrol when they decide to which level give this advanced functionality.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:17, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} This seems to be more useful for some projects than for others. At enwiki, we don't mark edits as patrolled unless pending changes has been enacted at the page. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:59, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:38, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Non-Latin section headings are displayed terribly in URL anchors and can't be reached directly ==
(Note: This was split out from the proposal above.)
* '''Problem''': Non-Latin section headings:
# are displayed terribly in URL anchors (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Википедия:Снятие_защиты#.D0.A1.D0.B8.D0.B1.D0.B8.D1.80.D1.81.D0.BA.D0.B8.D0.B9_.D1.8F.D0.B7.D1.8B.D0.BA.2C_.D0.A1.D0.B8.D0.B1.D0.B8.D1.80.D1.81.D0.BA.D0.B8.D0.B9_.D0.B8.D1.81.D0.BA.D1.83.D1.81.D1.81.D1.82.D0.B2.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.BD.D1.8B.D0.B9_.D1.8F.D0.B7.D1.8B.D0.BA)
# can't be reached directly (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Википедия:Снятие_защиты#Сибирский_язык,_Сибирский_искусственный_язык).

* '''Who would benefit''': Wikipedias and other Wikimedia sites on languages using non-Latin alphabet. Wikipedias on Latin-based languages would benefit too, as Unicode characters can appear in section headings.

* '''Proposed solution''': ''At least'' make Unicode anchors work when they have somehow got in the address bar (when copypasting path from wikilinks like this: <code><nowiki>[[Ссылка#Якорь]]</nowiki></code>, or via links other than [[wikilinks]]), if total transition (i.e. using unencoded links when converting wikilinks) is not possible due to some hard-to-overcome technical restrictions. Though total transition is obviously preferrable.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T75092]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Jack who built the house|Jack who built the house]] ([[User talk:Jack who built the house|talk]]) 23:23, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Non-Latin section headings are displayed terribly in URL anchors and can't be reached directly/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
Not only non-latin, also latin characters with diacritics. [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 10:11, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
:+1 to that. However, isn't it related to some recent changes in Firefox? I think I can remember someone mentioning it on Wikimedia CEE group on FB... [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] ([[User talk:Halibutt|talk]]) 22:36, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

This is a browser limitation. See my [http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/wikitech/453960 wikitech-l email] about it a while ago (when we had to decide how to use anchors in MediaViewer) and the related [https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=367505 Chrome bug report] (which got ignored). Filing bugs to browser vendors and getting people to show support there is probably the most effective thing that can be done about it. --[[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Tgr (WMF)|talk]]) 02:58, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
: {{re|Tgr (WMF)}} Chrome bug report was closed and archived, unfortunately, due to only 2 stars. Well, at least, you could add an element with alternative <code>id</code> / <code><a name=""></a></code> tag to each section heading. Right now user scripts are doing that job in ruwiki, in order to 1) allow editors working with wikicode to jump to section specified by wikilinks like this: <code><nowiki>[[Ссылка#Якорь]]</nowiki></code>, by copypasting their contents into the address bar, which is a common scenario (otherwise you have to open the page, find the section in Contents and click on it); 2) allow links to sections look pretty in Skype/IRC conversations. [[User:Jack who built the house|Jack who built the house]] ([[User talk:Jack who built the house|talk]]) 12:49, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
:: {{re|Jack who built the house}} the question is, do we want to encourage such links, knowing that they have poor interoperability and will probably break in some browsers (and almost certainly will break autolinking in email clients etc)? --[[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Tgr (WMF)|talk]]) 21:01, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
::: Maybe I am misunderstanding the proposal. Do wikilinks like <code><nowiki>[[Ссылка#Якорь]]</nowiki></code> actually fail to work? If that's the case, please file a bug about it; that should be fixed ASAP.
::: Also, we could probably output both <code>.D0.A1</code> and <code>%D0%A1</code> style anchors; those are both valid URIs and the second one is the standard way of representing Unicode characters in the fragment part of the URL. Maybe all we need is a campaign to convince browser vendors to properly support it. --[[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Tgr (WMF)|talk]]) 21:15, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
:::: {{re|Tgr (WMF)}} No, you understood it right. It's just useful for the editors to work with wikilinks in such way: they can open the sections which are linked from the article they are working with without having to go to the page first or press "Preview" and search for that link. (There are also instruments in ruwiki for quickly getting section links to insert into an article, not in the form <code><nowiki>[[Ссылка#.D0.AF.D0.BA.D0.BE.D1.80.D1.8C]]</nowiki></code> which can be copied from the address bar, but in the correct form.) [[User:Jack who built the house|Jack who built the house]] ([[User talk:Jack who built the house|talk]]) 10:06, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
:I can't see how this can be solved in the address bar? It is solved in links, but it does not seems to be the problem the user propose to solve? — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 13:34, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
:: Sure, the aimed result is the transition from .D0.AF to Я in links & in address bar. Half of the problem is the fact that Google Chrome right now shows Unicode characters in #anchors as %D0%AF, so this kind of transition would better be done simultaneously with fixing the issue in Chrome, otherwise it doesn't help. [[User:Jack who built the house|Jack who built the house]] ([[User talk:Jack who built the house|talk]]) 11:36, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Non-Latin section headings and URL anchors ===
# {{s}} [[User:Skydrinker|Skydrinker]] ([[User talk:Skydrinker|talk]]) 13:48, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Vladis13|Vladis13]] ([[User talk:Vladis13|talk]]) 14:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Deinocheirus|Deinocheirus]] ([[User talk:Deinocheirus|talk]]) 15:03, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:RasabJacek|RasabJacek]] ([[User talk:RasabJacek|talk]]) 15:19, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Cat of the Six|Cat of the Six]] ([[User talk:Cat of the Six|talk]]) 15:31, 28 November 2016 (UTC).
# {{support}} [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:39, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Liasmi|Liasmi]] ([[User talk:Liasmi|talk]]) 16:02, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Micru|Micru]] ([[User talk:Micru|talk]]) 16:03, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} – [[User:Meiræ|''Meiræ'']] 16:19, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Inctructor|Inctructor]] ([[User talk:Inctructor|talk]]) 16:28, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Kosun|Kosun]] ([[User talk:Kosun|talk]]) 17:12, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}! This is very annoying and can be a huge turnoff for new and less experienced editors. --[[User:SSneg|SSneg]] ([[User talk:SSneg|talk]]) 17:14, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}! --~ [[User:STARSHIP TROOPER|''Starship Trooper'']] ~ 17:26, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Arbnos|Arbnos]] ([[User talk:Arbnos|talk]]) 17:38, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:A.Savin|A.Savin]] ([[User talk:A.Savin|talk]]) 18:17, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:VAP+VYK|VAP+VYK]] ([[User talk:VAP+VYK|talk]]) 18:51, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}.--[[User:Vladimir Solovjev|Vladimir Solovjev]] ([[User talk:Vladimir Solovjev|talk]]) 20:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 21:55, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Permjak|Permjak]] ([[User talk:Permjak|talk]]) 22:00, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} — [[User:Ping08|Ping08]] ([[User talk:Ping08|talk]]) 22:03, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Всезнайка|Всезнайка]] ([[User talk:Всезнайка|talk]]) 22:09, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:VladXe|VladXe]] ([[User talk:VladXe|talk]]) 22:26, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Niklem|Niklem]] ([[User talk:Niklem|talk]]) 22:32, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ле Лой|Le Loy]] 23:14, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Iluvatar|Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Iluvatar|talk]]) 23:18, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Евгений Мирошниченко|Евгений Мирошниченко]] ([[User talk:Евгений Мирошниченко|talk]]) 03:11, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Aracali|Aracali]] ([[User talk:Aracali|talk]]) 03:22, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Шнапс|Шнапс]] ([[User talk:Шнапс|talk]]) 04:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:14, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:01, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Wanderer777|Wanderer777]] ([[User talk:Wanderer777|talk]]) 07:41, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Mihail Lavrov|Mihail Lavrov]] ([[User talk:Mihail Lavrov|talk]]) 07:48, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Schrike|Schrike]] ([[User talk:Schrike|talk]]) 08:02, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Centaurus~ruwiki|Centaurus~ruwiki]] ([[User talk:Centaurus~ruwiki|talk]]) 10:16, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 17:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. Most browsers already handle Unicode correctly. [[User:Saint Johann|Saint Johann]] ([[:ru:User:Saint Johann|ru]]) 19:06, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:JukoFF|JukoFF]] ([[User talk:JukoFF|talk]]) 19:14, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. --[[User:Хайзенберг|Хайзенберг]] ([[User talk:Хайзенберг|talk]]) 19:47, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}.[[User:Kolchak1923|Kolchak1923]] ([[User talk:Kolchak1923|talk]]) 20:47, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --''[[User:Telaneo|Telaneo]]'' ([[User talk:Telaneo|User talk page]]) 21:48, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. --[[User:User№101|User№101]] ([[User talk:User№101|talk]]) 22:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:GreenZmiy|GreenZmiy]] ([[User talk:GreenZmiy|talk]]) 04:45, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:P.Fisxo|P.Fisxo]] ([[User talk:P.Fisxo|talk]]) 04:54, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 08:49, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. —[[User:Igel B TyMaHe|Igel B TyMaHe]] ([[User talk:Igel B TyMaHe|talk]]) 09:33, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Azgar|Azgar]] ([[User talk:Azgar|talk]]) 13:00, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} &rlm; حمایت از خط فارسی-عربی. آن کدهای عجیب‌وغریب در آدرس‌بار مرورگر من غیرقابل خواندن هستند و من می‌خواهم آن‌ها را بخوانم. &lrm; [[User:4nn1l2|4nn1l2]] ([[User talk:4nn1l2|talk]]) 13:11, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}-- [[User:Arash.pt|ARASH PT]] [[User talk:Arash.pt| talk ]] 14:20, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:ShinePhantom|ShinePhantom]] ([[User talk:ShinePhantom|talk]]) 15:24, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Komap|Komap]] ([[User talk:Komap|talk]]) 15:38, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Demidenko|Demidenko]] 01:45, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Nouill|Nouill]] ([[User talk:Nouill|talk]]) 13:14, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} → [[User:Man77|'''««''']] Man77 [[User talk:Man77|'''»»''']] [[:de:User:Man77|[de]]] 22:08, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 00:02, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}[[User:MaxBioHazard|MaxBioHazard]] ([[User talk:MaxBioHazard|talk]]) 11:39, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Sannita|Sannita]] - ''[[User talk:Sannita|not just another it.wiki sysop]]'' 14:28, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:MohammadtheEditor|MohammadtheEditor]] ([[User talk:MohammadtheEditor|talk]]) 17:23, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:NBS|NBS]] ([[User talk:NBS|talk]]) 17:55, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Framawiki|Framawiki]] ([[User talk:Framawiki|talk]]) 20:36, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 21:27, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Hercules63|Hercules63]] ([[User talk:Hercules63|talk]]) 21:59, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Dinamik|Dinamik]] ([[User talk:Dinamik|talk]]) 23:23, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Iniquity|Iniquity]] ([[User talk:Iniquity|talk]]) 08:29, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Tisfoon|Tisfoon]] ([[User talk:Tisfoon|talk]]) 17:59, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Slb nsk|Slb nsk]] ([[User talk:Slb nsk|talk]]) 18:49, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} - Best regards, [[User:Kertraon|Kertraon]] ([[User talk:Kertraon|talk]]) 12:03, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} the exploration of any possible improvements. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 14:23, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Facenapalm|Facenapalm]] ([[User talk:Facenapalm|talk]]) 16:49, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Studmult|Studmult]] ([[User talk:Studmult|talk]]) 07:35, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Esetok|Esetok]] ([[User talk:Esetok|talk]]) 11:55, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Praveenp|Praveen]]''':'''[[:w:ml:User talk:Praveenp|talk]] 13:11, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Do notice that this also happens with latin diacritics (ã = %C3%A3), (â = %C3%82), (é = %C3%89) and so on. '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 20:11, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Papuass|Papuass]] ([[User talk:Papuass|talk]]) 21:04, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} because it would not help the many projects that do use Latin alphabets. I actually support doing this on behalf of smaller projects, but I don't want to see smaller projects send so many support voters that they crowd worthy proposals that benefit larger projects out of the top ten. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:20, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- Same issue facing in ml.wikipedia. [[User:Adv.tksujith|Adv.tksujith]] ([[User talk:Adv.tksujith|talk]]) 01:47, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- In addition to non-Latin projects and Latin diacritics, this has a huge impact on English Wikipedia, and probably every single project in the top ten. See this featured article section link : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Douglas_(architect)#Early_works_.281860.E2.80.9370.29 . This is one of the most visible "ugly" still in English Wikipedia on MediaWiki (from a user perspective). It is going to be hard work to fix it. {{ping|Tryptofish}} [[User:John Vandenberg|John Vandenberg]] ([[User talk:John Vandenberg|talk]]) 02:15, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}, long overdue - [[User:Mailer diablo|Mailer Diablo]] ([[User talk:Mailer diablo|talk]]) 07:01, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Ynhockey|Ynhockey]] ([[User talk:Ynhockey|talk]]) 10:13, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ladsgroup|Amir]] ([[User talk:Ladsgroup|talk]]) 18:34, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} - [[User:Akela|Akela]] ([[User talk:Akela|talk]]) 21:58, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --10:10, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} - [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 12:44, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:40, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Notify users of newly created articles added to categories or WikiProjects ==

* '''Problem''': Newly created articles or categories (a user creating a new category can't be expected to find all relevant wiki articles themselves) typically require the involvement of people knowledgeable on the topic to reach a good status, be neutral and contain all the necessary information. These users (for the respective article) could get invited via the article's categories and set WikiProject (banner on the talk page).

* '''Who would benefit''': Readers of new Wikipedia articles, users knowledgeable on particular topics who are interested in helping out with new articles, creators of new articles

* '''Proposed solution''': There are many possible ways that users might be able to "subscribe" to new articles (or categories) of particular categories or WikiProjects. I'd suggest adding an entry to the drop-down of the watchlist star of category pages that already I proposed [[2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Categories/Watchlists#Only_watchlist_certain_categories_for_membership_changes|here]] saying "Notify me for newly created articles" (or so) with 2 yes & no radio buttons (with the default which can be set in the settings being selected) and an actual membership system for WikiProjects (that I proposed [[w:Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_X/Archive_2#Improving WikiProject participation|here]]; until then a temporary solution could be simply assuming the users listed in the membership section of WikiProject pages to be their members or to use the WikiProject userbox categories). Then once new articles are added to any of the "subscribed" category or WikiProject one is member of one might get a typical notice in the upper right or have it listed on some specific page or have an entry on the watchlist.

* '''More comments''': This would improve collaboration, involvement and new article creation and -quality much.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 12:00, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Notify users of newly created articles added to categories or WikiProjects/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*{{Yo|Fixuture}} I believe there is a [[w:wp:BOT]] on the English wikipedia that notifies [[w:wp:WikiProject]]s of new pages added. Is that what you have in mind? [[User:Ottawahitech|Ottawahitech]] ([[User talk:Ottawahitech|talk]]) 16:35, 20 November 2016 (UTC){{small|please [[wp:Notifications|ping]] me}}
::{{ping|Ottawahitech}} Which bot? Does it notify users of pages that were recently added to the WikiProject or new articles recently added to the WikiProject? If that bot does what I described above and is still functional I guess it should be made more popular or built into a/the new WikiProject system. --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 16:43, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
:::The bot on en produces a log of recently added pages to the WikiProject, with the format <code>Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/{WikiProjectName} articles by quality log</code> [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 20:15, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Stevietheman}} I guess it's [[w:User:WP 1.0 bot]] then. Thanks for that! The bot seems useful and relevant here - however it's not what I suggested (it logs all pages getting tagged with a WikiProject's banner and not just the new ones). Also I couldn't find a way to get it doing its thing for ''WikiProject Science Fiction''. And lastly imo every WikiProject should get such a log without having to configure anything - it should be built into the WikiProject system (this also means that it'S not hidden away on some obscure subpage nobody will ever find but embedded in the updated WikiProject page). --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 20:49, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
*{{ping|Fixuture}} In what way does this feature differ from unselecting Preferences -> Watchlist -> Hide Categorization of pages -> unselect ? --[[user:°|𝔊]] ([[w:de:user:°|Gradzeichen]] [[w:de:user talk:°|Diſk]][[phab:T129747|✉]][[user talk:°|Talk]]) 18:52, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
::{{ping|Gradzeichen}} What do you mean? Did you mean to comment on [[2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Categories/Watchlists#Only_watchlist_certain_categories_for_membership_changes|this suggestion here]] instead maybe? --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 19:29, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Notification of an article being added to a category is already built into MediaWiki. Just watch the category, and de-select "Hide page categorization" in the Watchlist options. Then, you'll see pages being added to the category as they are added. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 20:09, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Stevietheman}} Thanks for the clarification and I know that. But my suggestion above is for newly ''created'' articles & categories and not just for newly ''categorized'' articles & categories. Alternatively it could also be stub articles & categories instead of just recently created ones. --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 20:34, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::OK. Well, on the English Wikipedia, you can color-code the stubs using [[en:User:Anomie/linkclassifier]]. Maybe that would work as a partial workaround? [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 20:40, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

*Since we already have a way to "subscribe" to category additions (like via watchlist), I'm going to suggest a solution that won't have to involve the WMF: Ask the developer of [[en:User:Anomie/linkclassifier]] to support the color coding of new articles. It's important to define what 'new' means, of course. I can only assume you mean perhaps less than one week old. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 14:37, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
**{{ping|Stevietheman}} Actually that's a good idea! However I'd first ask for some settings to control ''which'' of the link-types should be colored - I don't want my articles to look all rainbowish (I'd just like to have some few, specific types stand out). And for the timespan for new articles the best thing would be to have that configurable as well. But there's still one major problem with this improvised solution: you'd have to browse through all the additions and pick out the ones with the right color instead of just being notified about the new articles (also I couldn't use it this way anyways because of [[2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Categories/Watchlists#Only_watchlist_certain_categories_for_membership_changes|this]]). --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 22:04, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Notification of newly created articles added to categories or WikiProjects ===
# {{support}} [[User:IKhitron|IKhitron]] ([[User talk:IKhitron|talk]]) 12:12, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Beagel|Beagel]] ([[User talk:Beagel|talk]]) 18:19, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 00:02, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} per my latest comment. I think a solution outside the WMF team can be found. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 14:37, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Ynhockey|Ynhockey]] ([[User talk:Ynhockey|talk]]) 10:25, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]] ([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]]) 16:18, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:42, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Provide a dummy email address ==

* '''Problem''': As a victim of harassment, I may not want my email address disclosed every time I use [[Special:Emailuser]].

* '''Who would benefit''': Everyone.

* '''Proposed solution''': Github has a setting "Keep my email address private" that sets all publicly facing email addresses (e.g. in commit metadata) to, say, {{no spam|MER-C|users.noreply.github.com}}. A preference should be added to MediaWiki that, when enabled, sets all emails sent via [[Special:Emailuser]] to have a sender of, say, {{no spam|MER-C|no-reply.wikimedia.org}}. All emails sent to this address would be discarded silently.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T150421]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 06:36, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Provide a dummy email address/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*hmm... I'm afraid this would encourage harassment, instead: currently you can sometimes find someone who insults you, threatens you or otherwise disturb you, even if the interface tells them that their email address will be visible and their address has been confirmed. If you tell them they would be hidden, I'd bet they would feel more comfortable in acting badly. Also, at a legal level, this would bring the Foundation to be responsible of this correspondence, and any time a user should need to act against harassers, or police legitimately requires quick help, WMF would be bureaucratically called each time to reveal the hidden address, resulting in a useless heavy complication: someone should study each case, evaluate it, decide, and take a further responsibility when not revealing the address. Wikis are public by definition, when you need to exchange private messages you are not on wiki any more: in this case you can well bear giving your email address, maybe a dedicated secondary one (as above proposed). Afaik, email addresses are not disclosed in our wikis (and should never be, anyway). --[[User:Gianfranco|g]] ([[User talk:Gianfranco|talk]]) 01:03, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

This would just allow harassers to spam you emails that you could not easily block as it would all just be email from wikimedia. This could only work if we also had the "Allow users to restrict who can send them email" blacklist option as well. [[User:KylieTastic|KylieTastic]] ([[User talk:KylieTastic|talk]]) 14:24, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

*When the voting phase starts, I would support this ''if'' there is also a sure way on the Wikimedia side of things (as opposed to the email client side) to block certain users from sending you emails. As others have noted above, this could provide spammers with extra security as well, because their email addresses would be anonymous, too. As a suggestion, I know that, when an email is sent using Special:EmailUser, the fact that an email was sent (nothing else) is recorded in a log somewhere. We could somehow use that log to monitor emails incoming to one of these anonymous email addresses. What the log records (that an email was sent) would not change. — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 19:26, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Agree with KylieTastic that this has the potential to embolden harassers and it should probably only be implemented if we also have some sort of blacklisting feature. [[User:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|Ryan Kaldari (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|talk]]) 01:28, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Provide a dummy email address ===
#{{support}} with the restrictions people gave in the discussion above. — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 00:54, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 08:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} [[User:This, that and the other|This, that and the other]] ([[User talk:This, that and the other|talk]]) 11:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{S}} It seems to me that the desire is some sort of private messaging system and not necessarily email. Implementing a wikitext (or Flow) based private message system seems like a good idea and could still be viewable by administrators. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 00:51, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} Wouldn't it work both ways and so enable anonymous harassing? Do not use email if you don't want your email address to be disclosed. [[User:Aracali|Aracali]] ([[User talk:Aracali|talk]]) 03:25, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:15, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 17:58, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}}, if you want to send a private message (email), there is no reason why should a receiver get your email, as it's private information. --[[User:Stryn|Stryn]] ([[User talk:Stryn|talk]]) 20:53, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{Support}} -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 02:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} as proposer. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 06:06, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Grabado|Grabado]] ([[User talk:Grabado|talk]]) 18:42, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 00:03, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} This would simply open up people to being harassed anonymously. I could support it if they used a bounce email instead, something like mer-c@bounce.en.wikipedia.org which would bounce it to your actual email address. [[User:Jerodlycett|Jerodlycett]] ([[User talk:Jerodlycett|talk]]) 13:09, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} but ''only'' if the receiver can see the username of the sender. I oppose making this totally blind. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 14:45, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#:This proposal talks nothing about hiding the username of the sender. This is only about revealing the email address. --[[User:Stryn|Stryn]] ([[User talk:Stryn|talk]]) 15:11, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#::Thanks. I just wanted it to be clear that the receiver should at least know the username so they can report abuse if necessary, and at least they have something they can match for blocking. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 15:21, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{oppose}} Too easily abused. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 04:51, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} [[User:Studmult|Studmult]] ([[User talk:Studmult|talk]]) 07:36, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Praveenp|Praveen]]''':'''[[:w:ml:User talk:Praveenp|talk]] 13:17, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} But only as pointed out by Stevietheman. '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 22:36, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} as enabling anonymous harassment. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:23, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} I understand the idea but don't think enabling anon harassment is the answer. Pain in the ass, tho. --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 03:49, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 15:52, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} There are other solutions to this problem, such that I have a specific wiki email address. Using an anon service would open up WMF/ORTIS to increased workloads by becoming the proxy for abuse and complains. Currently abuse can be deferred off to the email provider, but once WMF gets in the middle of it, we now have to play middle man... [[User:Tiggerjay|Tiggerjay]] ([[User talk:Tiggerjay|talk]]) 20:53, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Per Rschen -- [[User talk:DeltaQuad|Amanda]] [[User:DeltaQuad|(aka DQ)]] 21:04, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:45, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Provide a tool to efficiently analyze the usage of a template ==

* '''Problem''': Users who amend templates need to go sure that their changes are concordant with the way the template has been in use so far ''or'' adapt those transclusions which are not compatible with the amended template. The tool (https://tools.wmflabs.org/templatetiger/) currently in use has three big flaws:
** it only provides an outdated analysis of a dump which can date back to times more than half a year ago. This is not helpful for efficient template curation.
** it cannot display more than 30 results at a time.
** there is no interface, you have to know how to manipulate the URL in order to rearrange your query result.

* '''Who would benefit''': Primarily users who curate and amend templates, secondarily authors who use templates in their articles

* '''Proposed solution''': For the three flaws specified above:
** Make sure ''at least'' once per month a new dump gets fed in the tool. As petscan provides live coverage in its scope of application, a live analysis of templates has, of course, to be mentioned as optimum.
** Get rid of that limit. (Provide a link to a longer partial list and to a full list of results.)
** Minimal version: Make the list of results sortable by clicking on the parameter in the headline of the table. Targeted version: Provide an interface similar to petscan which lets you filter and sort your list of results.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120767 T120767]

* '''Proposer''': → [[User:Man77|'''««''']] Man77 [[User talk:Man77|'''»»''']] [[:de:User:Man77|[de]]] 22:05, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Provide a tool to efficiently analyze the usage of a template/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*{{ping|Man77}} Hi, I'm wondering if you've already talked to User:Kolossos about any or all of this, as he appears to be the primary developer of that tool ([[w:de:Wikipedia:WikiProjekt_Vorlagenauswertung#Ansprechpartner|per]]). Any links would be appreciated. :) [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 23:25, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
*:Actually, no. Honestly, I didn't realize that he is caretaker of that tool until last autumn, and according to my information he's been really busy for quite some time. → [[User:Man77|'''««''']] Man77 [[User talk:Man77|'''»»''']] [[:de:User:Man77|[de]]] 13:45, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
*:: Ah, ok, that makes sense. I'll ask here to keep things clearer: Hello {{ping|Kolossos}} There are some suggestions here for improvements to your helpful tool. Is there anything other people can do to help (design suggestions, or technical assistance)? Do you foresee having any time in the future to work on some or all of these? I think suggestion #2 and #3 (minimal version) might be relatively clear and quick, and might help a significant percentage of the editors who use the tool. Thanks! [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 01:44, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
::To #2 and #3: You can increase the limit of rows in the table if know how to edit the URL [https://tools.wmflabs.org/templatetiger/tt-table4.php?lang=enwiki&template=Coord&where=&is=&&offset=0&limit=80 example](Parameter limit has an maximum of 3000). Yes I'm not an UI expert. The code is now old, messy PHP shit , so an rewrite in Python (with Pandas) seems usefull.
::To #1: Updating is really a problem, especially for the huge english wikipedia. Support from WMF would be welcome, I have problems to use linux commands an WMFs linux cloud [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T124822].
::So, my main interests are now in other areas and I have limited time, but I would give support if somebody would like to work on the project. --[[User:Kolossos|Kolossos]] ([[User talk:Kolossos|talk]]) 19:20, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
* I am genuinely puzzled by this request because I have no idea what the purpose of https://tools.wmflabs.org/templatetiger/ is (I've never seen it before) and what is meant by the concept of "template curation". And I'm a pretty technically-oriented editor. So I'm really puzzled that this many editors actually do understand what's needed here and are supporting it. Better explanation of what the problem is that this solves is needed. [[User:Wbm1058|Wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 15:36, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
**"Template curation" in other words: Fixing something which is broken with a template or where there is reasonable room for improvement. In order to do so you need to know how the given template has been used → [[User:Man77|'''««''']] Man77 [[User talk:Man77|'''»»''']] [[:de:User:Man77|[de]]] 15:47, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Tool to efficiently analyze usage of a template ===
# {{s}} --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 00:52, 29 November 2016 (UTC
# {{support}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:02, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} → [[User:Man77|'''««''']] Man77 [[User talk:Man77|'''»»''']] [[:de:User:Man77|[de]]] 21:41, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Grabado|Grabado]] ([[User talk:Grabado|talk]]) 18:43, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Entbert|Entbert]] ([[User talk:Entbert|talk]]) 15:07, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} Improvements should be done eventually, but I think this is too low a priority for the WMF to consider. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 15:18, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} per Stevietheman. --[[User:Liuxinyu970226|Liuxinyu970226]] ([[User talk:Liuxinyu970226|talk]]) 10:25, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} I think that template writers can get by if they use "what links here" from the template page. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:24, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

== Publish translated page in different location ==

* '''Problem''':
When translation is performed with translate tool, the only possibility too see wiki code of page is to publish it.
But yet, more corrections is necessary with access to wiki-code

* '''Who would benefit''':
everyone who uses translator tool

* '''Proposed solution''':
''Add checkbox to "create new translation" window which allows user to translate page to user's private area "User:Joshnsmith/Translations" for further wiki-code editing in usual "wikipedian" way''
* this will avoid publishing raw translations to mainspace and reduce unneeded page revisions history
* this will avoid showing to others unready article
* this is convenient to translate separate paragraphs of article without overwriting entire article
* so far all listed is possible to do manually, but a little of automation would be good

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Alex Khimich|Alex Khimich]] ([[User talk:Alex Khimich|talk]]) 19:41, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Publish translated page in different location/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*Note: this proposal is about [[mw:Help:Extension:ContentTranslation#Writing_and_publishing_the_translation]]. [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 07:55, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

::There are also translation tools that allow to edit in wikicode. Like [http://translate.keeleleek.ee/ Minority Translate]. [[User:Kruusamägi|Kruusamägi]] ([[User talk:Kruusamägi|talk]]) 16:46, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

*Well, can't these corrections be made afterwards? --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 20:32, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
::Well, maybe it takes some hours to do more work on that. Our users use a trick that they translate page to their subpage (new one for each case) and later ask admin to delete it. It might influence translation stats, though. Could be useful and not that hard to implement. --[[User:Papuass|Papuass]] ([[User talk:Papuass|talk]]) 21:08, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Publish translated page in different location ===
# {{oppose}}. I translate pages just by my head and hands. Such named "translation tool" limits the possibilities of translators and so has to be turned off completely. Partial solutions like this can not add usefulness to that strang "translation tool". [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:22, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --''[[User:Telaneo|Telaneo]]'' ([[User talk:Telaneo|User talk page]]) 21:51, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Papuass|Papuass]] ([[User talk:Papuass|talk]]) 21:08, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

== Relaunching Wikitrends statistics tool ==

* '''Problem''': As editors, we really enjoyed following [http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikitrends Wikitrends Trends on Wikipedia] for every Wikipedia. This tool serves two interests: curiosity - finding out what readers of a certain language look for in a certain period of time and also, increase of productivity - when editors pay attention to the fact there's more traffic to a certain article, they can work on this specific article, improve it, or at least, pay more attention to this sudden field of interest. Unfortunately, this tool is no longer usable for few months now and there's no alternative I know for this real time information.

* '''Who would benefit''': Readers and editors, as well as PR personalities in the Wikimedia community (spokespersons of Wikimedia chapters had been using this information in their updates to local media).

* '''Proposed solution''': Find a solution to make it work again: give us the top 10 articles visited in the last day, week and month, as well as Uptrends and Downtrends for Wikipedia in each language.

* '''More comments''': I would be mostly happy to find that I missed something, in case this tool is available now in any other form (-: .

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Ldorfman|Ldorfman]] ([[User talk:Ldorfman|talk]]) 23:24, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Relaunching Wikitrends statistics tool/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
:{{ping|Ldorfman}} Does "this tool is no longer usable for few months now"? refer to "Last updated Sat, 06 Aug 2016", or are there further issues? Trying to better understand... --[[User:AKlapper (WMF)|AKlapper (WMF)]] ([[User talk:AKlapper (WMF)|talk]]) 14:41, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
::{{ping|AKlapper (WMF)}} Hi. We don't get new information anymore at [http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikitrends/hebrew-most-visited-today.html the Most Visited page] as well as at the Downtrends and Uptrends pages (at least for Hebrew Wikipedia). It is stuck on the info since, I guess, this day in August. Is it a case of "simple" "clear cache" somehow? [[User:Ldorfman|Ldorfman]] ([[User talk:Ldorfman|talk]]) 16:53, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Ldorfman}} Please see http://www.trending.eu/ & http://www.wikipediatrends.com/ & [[w:Wikipedia:Top 25 Report]]. They aren't really as good / functional as WikiTrends though. I'd support your proposal if there weren't more pressing issues and no current partial solution/s. --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 20:39, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
::::You have : [https://en.wikiscan.org/hours Wikiscan] --[[User:Nouill|Nouill]] ([[User talk:Nouill|talk]]) 13:12, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Fixuture}} Thanks for the note, but "[http://www.trending.eu Trending]" doesn't give the same information as the page I wrote about (like number of vistors for example), plus it's not for all wikis (Hebrew, for example, my home wiki, is not included).
:::::[http://www.wikipediatrends.com Wikipediatrends] is for en.wikipedia only and the same is about "Top 25 Report". The tool I ask for is for all almost 200 Wikipedia projects.
:::::{{ping|Nouill}} [https://en.wikiscan.org/hours Wikiscan] gives a very different information. It's not about page-view statistics/number of watchers, but about modifications volume. It's totally something else, plus, it's a bit problematic to get to it using Google Chrome due to what's mentioned as "safety reasons". [[User:Ldorfman|Ldorfman]] ([[User talk:Ldorfman|talk]]) 20:41, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Wikitrends statistics tool ===
#{{s}}. this just dump link error--[[User:Shizhao|Shizhao]] ([[User talk:Shizhao|talk]]) 02:52, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 17:19, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Alternatives exists. --[[User:Nouill|Nouill]] ([[User talk:Nouill|talk]]) 13:12, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} per Fixuture. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 15:16, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 03:53, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

== Standardization of the includable special page==

* '''Problem''': The invoke of all includable special page are not uniform. The parameter of some function to set is not all the same. like the Special:NewPages have the parameter 'shownav' to control to show the navigation bar ,but the Special:PrefixIndex does not control it by the parameter which also have the navigation bar. The method of send the parameter is not uniform，They have send them with a string split by comma, key-value map split by pipe operator, and the url request type like '<nowiki>{{Special:NewPages/50}}</nowiki>'. At last we have not enough document to explain the special page,especially the Transclusion.

* '''Who would benefit''': Editor who need include some Special Page on the page.

* '''Proposed solution''': For parameter, Maybe it need create a method to collect the parameter from different type of the assignment so It can get the parameters easily by transcluded.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Cwek|Cwek]] ([[User talk:Cwek|talk]]) 08:02, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Standardization of the includable special page/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*{{ping|Cwek}} Hi, please could you add some example links above, so that people who are not familiar with the problem or pages can see exactly what you mean. Please include examples that currently do work the way you want, and examples that do not (perhaps as a sandbox diff link). Thanks! [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 19:34, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
**There are three problems:
**#The assignment of the parameter is not uniform. Like a string split by comma(<nowiki>{{Special:Newpages/limit=5,shownav,offset=20081210,namespace=Template}}</nowiki>,[[:mw:Help:New_pages]]), the url request type (<nowiki>{{Special:NewPages/50}}</nowiki>, 50 means the value of 'limit', [[:mw:Help:New_pages]]), and key-value map split by pipe operator(<nowiki>{{Special:PrefixIndex/2016 Community Wishlist Survey|stripprefix=yes}}</nowiki>). Can it make a uniform way to assign the parameter like the , especially the way that a string splited by comma and the url request type also are assign the parameter with the type of key-value map split by pipe operator.
**#Like [[special:prefixindex]] and [[Special:WhatLinksHere]],some special page which also have a navigation bar on the web page can't control them's display with the parameter when they are transcluded. But the Special:NewPages([[:mw:Help:New_pages]]) have the parameter 'shownav' to control them's display when it is transcluded.
**#The Document of the special page about it's Transclusion(like parameters) are missed or no enough information. Like [[Special:RecentChangesLinked]]([[:mw:Help:Related_changes]]),[[Special:WhatLinksHere]]([[:mw:Help:What_links_here]]),[[Special:PrefixIndex]](no help page).
**{{ping|Quiddity (WMF)}}That is all.--[[User:Cwek|Cwek]] ([[User talk:Cwek|talk]]) 01:26, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Standardization of the includable special page ===
# {{support}} Some unifications could be done to this. [[User:Matěj Suchánek|Matěj Suchánek]] ([[User talk:Matěj Suchánek|talk]]) 21:16, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} I fail to see the benefit. --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 03:54, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} - Wishful thinking/moral support. I can see where there would be serious technical challenges to standardizing, but I'd like to see greater ability to transclude special pages with parameters only available through url/get. — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 02:47, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Thank IPs for their edits==

* '''Problem''': While many IPs do disruptive edits, there are many that do constructive editing.

* '''Who would benefit''': IP users would recognize that they did good work, and they then might me encouraged to get a username. Users would be able to tell the IPs that they appreciate their work, encouraging them to edit more.

* '''Proposed solution''': A way to thank IP users for edits, like we can for other users.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T63022]]

* '''Proposer''': --[[User:Kew Gardens 613|Kew Gardens 613]] ([[User talk:Kew Gardens 613|talk]]) 21:56, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Thank IPs for their edits/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* See also [[2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Notifications#Modify .22Thank you.22 so we can thank anonymous editors|2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Notifications#Modify "Thank you" so we can thank anonymous editors]], which ranked #22 in the 2015 survey. [[User:Gnom|Gnom]] ([[User talk:Gnom|talk]]) 22:36, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
* {{ping|Kew Gardens 613|Gnom}} The difficulty with this idea, is that IP addresses can be shared, and can frequently change (especially for mobile editors)(c.f. [[w:en:Template:Shared IP header templates]]), so a "Thank" sent to an IP address might not ever be seen by the intended recipient. There was some discussion in last year's proposal, and in [[phab:T63022]], about making something different-than-usual happen when we click "Thank" on an IP's edit -- perhaps sending an automatic talkpage template message immediately, or perhaps just opening the talkpage and prompting the editor for input -- but that wasn't the focus of the original proposal, so it was unclear what the editors who'd participated in the overall discussion thought of that alternative. There are also strong concerns that this new behaviour (A) does not match the existing expectations for how the Thanks links will behave, and (B) it does so by making a very public talkpage message rather than a simple and semi-public "Thank" notification. Please could you (both) clarify the proposal above, to take this into account? (Either: amend it to specify exactly how it might work, given that we can't reliable send Echo Notifications, and thus must rely upon talkpages; or retract it altogether if you are no longer convinced of the pros outweighing the cons; or some other option that I haven't thought of!) Thanks. [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 23:08, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
::Hi [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]]! For me, the proposal was born from the frustrating experience of seeing an edit, wanting to thank the editor, and then seeing that it was an IP who made the edit. I was totally aware that IP addresses can be shared and that they can change. I like the idea of sending the user a thank you notice on their talk page instead. --[[User:Gnom|Gnom]] ([[User talk:Gnom|talk]]) 11:51, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
* I think it should be possible. If the thanking occurs within 24 h, a template is left in the talk page, which will be erased or archived according to local policies after a while. Otherwise, the information is stored on some log book as it is for users. It's useful to know that from a cluster of IPs good stuff come more than from other ones. I see no reason why we shouldn't try.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 02:52, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
:See the somewhat related idea of using throwaway accounts for anonymous editors ([[phab:T133452|T133452]]) which would allow them to be reached the same way normal editors can, until their session times out. --[[User:Tgr (WMF)|Tgr (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Tgr (WMF)|talk]]) 03:22, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

'''Proposed Solution:''' Send a special session cookie to IP users, when they edit an article. If someone sends a thanks to an IP, it is delivered to the owner of the cookie, if it still exists. After successful delivery the thanker gets a positive echo notice. If the thanks cannot be delivered within 24 hours, the thanker gets a negative echo notification. --[[user:°|𝔊]] ([[w:de:user:°|Gradzeichen]] [[w:de:user talk:°|Diſk]][[phab:T129747|✉]][[user talk:°|Talk]]) 09:12, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Thank IPs for their edits ===
# {{oppose}} [[User:IKhitron|IKhitron]] ([[User talk:IKhitron|talk]]) 12:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jack who built the house|Jack who built the house]] ([[User talk:Jack who built the house|talk]]) 12:59, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} I started out as neutral last year, then changed to mild support, but now I'm back to neutral. I guess I just can't work up excitement about this, for the reason that IP users are too wiggly (i.e., can barely be pinned down to receive anything) for this to have any significant impact compared to the work needed to implement it. But if somehow it is implemented, I might use it sometimes (which is why I won't outright oppose it). [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 14:05, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} but only if "thanking" isn't translated into a talk page message (which I consider a different "gesture", often much too "invasive" or "loud" for a small contribution already}). I like the idea to track the IP via session cookie. --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 01:50, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 09:03, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}, people need some kind of feedback. --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 20:40, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}} Dubious value. IPs may be dynamic, change without warning, etc. Anon may never get the thanks -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 02:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#:{{ping|Fastily}} That can be addressed by checking if they still have the last-used cookie. [[User:Samsara|Samsara]] ([[User talk:Samsara|talk]]) 15:16, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#::Right, but I'm not in disagreement with any of the how-to details; I believe implementing this feature would introduce additional, unnecessary technical overhead, lead to minimal value for the community, and ultimately, Anons many never see the 'thanks'. -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 22:13, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Multiple users on a single IP (schools, libraries, etc) makes your thanks go to potentially someone else who isn't helping. Just send a welcome message to their talk page to encourage them to make an account! [[User:Semmendinger|Semmendinger]] ([[User talk:Semmendinger|talk]]) 19:48, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#:{{ping|Semmendinger}} (1) Users can be distinguished by browser cookie. (2) Encouraging account creation may be against policy on some wikis. [[User:Samsara|Samsara]] ([[User talk:Samsara|talk]]) 15:16, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#::{{ping|Samsara}} Well that's a stupid rule, we should be encouraging all editors to put an account to their edits if possible. Thanks for information on the first half though! [[User:Semmendinger|Semmendinger]] ([[User talk:Semmendinger|talk]]) 15:58, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 02:40, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}}, too much complexity for too little gain. [[User:MaxSem|Max Semenik]] ([[User talk:MaxSem|talk]]) 03:23, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} '''[[User:Jmvkrecords|Jmvkrecords]] [[Special:Contributions/Jmvkrecords|⚜]] ([[User Talk:Jmvkrecords|Intra talk]])''' 08:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC). People can be thanked for edits they didn't make.
# {{support}} with a time limit: Possible to thank during 5 minutes (for instance) after the IP edit. - Best regards, [[User:Kertraon|Kertraon]] ([[User talk:Kertraon|talk]]) 12:08, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} not worth it. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 04:50, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} A thank you can be very encouraging, and many users edit without a login for many reasons. --[[User:WinTakeAll|WinTakeAll]] ([[User talk:WinTakeAll|talk]]) 22:09, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Too many IP addresses used by multiple persons. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:26, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Not worth the effort, too few raisins in too much dung. One can always c&p a nice msg to the ip talk page if needed. --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 03:57, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 15:53, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} personally disagree with IP editing. [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 12:56, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:51, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Use notifications (echo) for mass messages ==

* '''Problem''': Some mass messages should go to users given specific roles, usage, or behaviors, without the sender name the individual recipients

* '''Who would benefit''': All wikiprojects using the Echo extension, that has community-driven processes for consensus building

* '''Proposed solution''': Add link on a page that opens a special page for message delivery as notifications. Only users with sufficient rights should be able to send such mass messages. Let the special page be an user interface to "Autopromote", and use the results from that class to filter out users that should be recipients of the mass message. The mass message will then be delivered as a notification, possibly with a link back to the originating page.

* '''More comments''': It is likely that there should always be an originating page, as the notification itself should be small. Creation of a page describing the notification in-depth also makes the sender reflect about the why, what, and how s/he sends it.
: It seems like there are several different use cases for creating recipients. One of them are sending a mass message to all contributors on a page or a list of pages (or category), while another is to send a mass message to all users watching a page or a list of pages (or category).
: Common use cases are discussions about candidates for featured articles, and likewise for adminship. Both should have an originating page where the discussion takes place. Policy discussions are also a common use case.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 20:58, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Use notifications (echo) for mass messages/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* This was originally considered as a feature for the Echo extension, but we were worried about it being over-used. I'm not necessarily arguing against this feature, just saying that we should be careful to avoid spamming people with too many notifications. [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] ([[User talk:Kaldari|talk]]) 01:00, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
::I fully agree on that! It is although a lot better than using sitenotices to give information that only makes sense for a small number of people. Imagine elections of admins, where only some users are eligible to cast votes, and those users should be given a warning before the voting begins. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 20:34, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
* Instead of the proposal here I'd suggest a new WikiProject notification system that allows people to notify all members of a WikiProject of a new discussion (e.g. by a new notification-type or notification-alert-inbox). Spam is a problem here so I guess it needs WikiProject moderators that have to approve the notification first. --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 20:48, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
* Maybe we need better targeted traditional mass messages rather than using notifications for them. I'm not sure that these should be combined. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 15:39, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Use notifications for mass messages ===
# {{support}} --[[User:Tarjeimo|Tarjeimo]] ([[User talk:Tarjeimo|talk]]) 21:53, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} This would be a great feature to have. For example, if something major is changing with a specific user right (say, Pending Changes Reviewer), then a notification could go out saying, "Hey, [[w:en:WP:Deferred Changes|Deferred Changes]] is getting implemented! Read about it here!" or something like that. — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 20:52, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 03:20, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} per my comment above. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 03:23, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{weak oppose}} - My initial instinct is to like the idea from a basic ease/flexibility of communication standpoint. However, as I understand it this would create a mechanism for one-to-many (or one-to-one) communication that would not have a permanent public history record on-wiki. That puts it in an unusual class of communication that should be avoided if there's a reasonably acceptable substitute within existing systems. — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 05:41, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:53, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Activate the warning on unsuccessful login attempts ==

* '''Problem''': Many Web-Forums and other IT-systems tell a user on login, if there have been unsuccessful login attempts. The user gets aware of hackers who attack their account by testing popular passwords. A mediawiki extension with this functionality has already been coded. All that needs to be done, is to activate it.

* '''Who would benefit''': Everyone with an account.

* '''Proposed solution''': https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/279929

* '''More comments''': Maybe not the most important thing to do, but useful and can be done in short time with small ressources.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T122123]], [[phab:T11838]], [[phab:T107707]], [[phab:T140167]]

* '''Proposer''': [[user:°|𝔊]] ([[w:de:user:°|Gradzeichen]] [[w:de:user talk:°|Diſk]][[phab:T129747|✉]][[user talk:°|Talk]]) 05:43, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Activate the warning on unsuccessful login attempts/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* yes please —[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 11:27, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
* I see no reason why not.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 11:34, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
* Yep, this would be definitely useful! [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 21:05, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
*Almost all large, professional sites have such a feature. Wikipedia should have it.[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]]) 11:23, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
* Sounds reasonable and quick to implement. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 17:37, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
* If the extension already exists (i.e no need to write new code for it), and it's potentially useful (for the reasons stated above), why not? [[en:User:Od Mishehu|עוד מישהו]] [[en:User talk:Od Mishehu|Od Mishehu]] 05:51, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
* Given the recent bout of admin accounts being stolen (which caused 2FA to be rolled out ahead of schedule to some users), I will definitely support this when it comes time for voting. — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 19:58, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
* Agreed! Pls! --[[User:OrsolyaVirág|OrsolyaVirág]] ([[User talk:OrsolyaVirág|talk]]) 10:05, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Activate the warning on unsuccessful login attempts ===
#{{support}}! — [[User:Gestrid|Gestrid]] ([[User talk:Gestrid#top|talk]]) 00:55, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}}. No-brainer. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 01:59, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:28, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:BethNaught|BethNaught]] ([[User talk:BethNaught|talk]]) 08:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:33, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} [[User:Samwalton9|Samwalton9]] ([[User talk:Samwalton9|talk]]) 09:25, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{Support}} [[User:Jules78120|Jules78120]] ([[User talk:Jules78120|talk]]) 12:39, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]]) 14:47, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:MarcoAurelio|Marco]][[User talk:MarcoAurelio|Aurelio]] 15:14, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:41, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} – [[User:Meiræ|''Meiræ'']] 16:26, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Nocowardsoulismine|Nocowardsoulismine]] ([[User talk:Nocowardsoulismine|talk]]) 18:37, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Matěj Suchánek|Matěj Suchánek]] ([[User talk:Matěj Suchánek|talk]]) 21:58, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 22:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:22, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. I'd like it to be configurable. "One" might just be my own spelling mistake. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 18:01, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} – A great extension! [[User:Guycn2|Guycn2]] · [[User talk:Guycn2|☎]] 18:58, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --''[[User:Telaneo|Telaneo]]'' ([[User talk:Telaneo|User talk page]]) 21:51, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Snaevar|Snaevar]] ([[User talk:Snaevar|talk]]) 01:09, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 01:51, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} I just wonder if the code has already been written, what the Community Tech Team is supposed to do? Just activate it? That seems an easy task :) [[User:4nn1l2|4nn1l2]] ([[User talk:4nn1l2|talk]]) 13:21, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 20:41, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}: Kind of amazing it hasn't been done yet. O_o [[User:Julia W|Julia]]\[[User_talk:Julia W|talk]] 23:04, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 02:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 05:28, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Beta16|β16]] - ([[User talk:Beta16|talk]]) 16:06, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Reasonable. --[[User:Vachovec1|Vachovec1]] ([[User talk:Vachovec1|talk]]) 19:51, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Louis Wu|Louis Wu]] ([[User talk:Louis Wu|talk]]) 21:40, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} → [[User:Man77|'''««''']] Man77 [[User talk:Man77|'''»»''']] [[:de:User:Man77|[de]]] 22:11, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} — [[User:KPFC|KPFC]] [[User Talk:KPFC|💬]] 23:02, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Czar|czar]] 01:32, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Draceane|Draceane]] ([[User talk:Draceane|talk]]) 10:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:14, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}[[User:MaxBioHazard|MaxBioHazard]] ([[User talk:MaxBioHazard|talk]]) 11:46, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Sannita|Sannita]] - ''[[User talk:Sannita|not just another it.wiki sysop]]'' 14:29, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Framawiki|Framawiki]] ([[User talk:Framawiki|talk]]) 20:37, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:SBaker43|SBaker43]] ([[User talk:SBaker43|talk]]) 23:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} as an option people can turn on if they wish. [[User:Doc James|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 04:18, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Continua Evoluzione|Continua Evoluzione]] ([[User talk:Continua Evoluzione|talk]]) 14:53, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Yeza|Yeza]] ([[User talk:Yeza|talk]]) 13:07, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|"?!"]] 15:39, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 04:50, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Studmult|Studmult]] ([[User talk:Studmult|talk]]) 07:37, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Andropov|Andropov]] ([[User talk:Andropov|talk]]) 18:15, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 20:16, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:27, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:00, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 15:54, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} It is time for more conversations on security in Wikimedia projects. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 19:17, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Tiggerjay|Tiggerjay]] ([[User talk:Tiggerjay|talk]]) 20:55, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[w:User:Ks0stm|Ks0stm]] ([[User talk:Ks0stm|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ks0stm|C]]•[[w:User:Ks0stm/Guestbook|G]]) 21:14, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. - [[User:Mailer diablo|Mailer Diablo]] ([[User talk:Mailer diablo|talk]]) 06:58, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Neutral}} Please make it so that you can opt-out. I hate Google's stupid messages every time I log on through a new work computer... [[User:CFCF|CFCF]][[User talk:CFCF| 💌]] [[Special:EmailUser/CFCF|📧]] 20:42, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
#*{{comment}} The extension is based on echo notifications. Like any other notification you can check or uncheck the box in preferences. --[[user:°|𝔊]] ([[w:de:user:°|Gradzeichen]] [[w:de:user talk:°|Diſk]][[phab:T129747|✉]][[user talk:°|Talk]]) 04:20, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:TheCatalyst31|TheCatalyst31]] ([[User talk:TheCatalyst31|talk]]) 02:05, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[user:°|𝔊]] ([[w:de:user:°|Gradzeichen]] [[w:de:user talk:°|Diſk]][[phab:T129747|✉]][[user talk:°|Talk]]) 04:20, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -[[User:Ladsgroup|Amir]] ([[User talk:Ladsgroup|talk]]) 18:34, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} - Unclear what's the action to take if attempts are detected. [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 20:05, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} - [[User:Akela|Akela]] ([[User talk:Akela|talk]]) 21:49, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} Very useful. [[User:Espresso Addict|Espresso Addict]] ([[User talk:Espresso Addict|talk]]) 03:57, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Lt2818|Lt2818]] ([[User talk:Lt2818|talk]]) 11:07, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 16:55, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} --[[User:Stryn|Stryn]] ([[User talk:Stryn|talk]]) 18:16, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Add new inverted filter options to Special:Contributions ==

* '''Problem''': I effectively want to be out of a job -- [[en:User:Markhurd/hidetopcontrib.js]]. Adjust the Contributions filters to include an inverse of the current settings.

* '''Who would benefit''': Editors who want to know which of their contributions have been edited.

* '''Proposed solution''': Add an "Invert filter" checkbox which will mean the filters will "Only show edits that are not the latest revisions", "Only show edits that are not page creations", and "show only minor edits", if selected.

* '''More comments''':
:This alone wouldn't actually make my script redundant, because I also have the option to hide subsequent edits.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Markhurd|Mark Hurd]] ([[User talk:Markhurd|talk]]) 10:29, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous/Add new inverted filter options to Special:Contributions/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* Mark Hurd's script is brilliant and has worked as an alternative watchlist for me for a long time. Being able to review changes since my changes has helped me catch some vandalism and unhelpful tinkering to changes I've made, without having to bloat my regular watchlist. This definitely should be "built in". [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 17:29, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Add new inverted filter options to Special:Contributions ===
#{{support}} This would be very valuable to many editors and it is likely very easy to implement. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 02:06, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:33, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ninovolador|Ninovolador]] ([[User talk:Ninovolador|talk]]) 11:36, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}}[[User:Jules78120|Jules78120]] ([[User talk:Jules78120|talk]]) 12:41, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 17:18, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Nocowardsoulismine|Nocowardsoulismine]] ([[User talk:Nocowardsoulismine|talk]]) 18:39, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 00:54, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Gamliel Fishkin|Gamliel Fishkin]] 04:23, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:YMS|YMS]] ([[User talk:YMS|talk]]) 16:34, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --''[[User:Telaneo|Telaneo]]'' ([[User talk:Telaneo|User talk page]]) 21:52, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 01:53, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 09:05, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} -[[User talk:Fastily|FASTILY]] 02:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 10:54, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Gerwoman|Gerwoman]] ([[User talk:Gerwoman|talk]]) 18:44, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} I do this process manually all the time. A built-in button would be great. —[[User:Patrug|Patrug]] ([[User talk:Patrug|talk]]) 23:57, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Draceane|Draceane]] ([[User talk:Draceane|talk]]) 10:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}}. [[User:LlamaAl|LlamaAl]] ([[User talk:LlamaAl|talk]]) 04:58, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Continua Evoluzione|Continua Evoluzione]] ([[User talk:Continua Evoluzione|talk]]) 14:55, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Andropov|Andropov]] ([[User talk:Andropov|talk]]) 18:16, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 22:31, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} I don't use the list too often that I need that I assume. --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 04:03, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Muhraz|Muhraz]] ([[User talk:Muhraz|talk]]) 15:55, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Ynhockey|Ynhockey]] ([[User talk:Ynhockey|talk]]) 09:58, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]] ([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]]) 15:51, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Community Wishlist Survey 2016/Categories/Citations

2016-12-09T18:03:58Z

LeadSongDog: /* Voting – Improve automated, full-page, bare-link citation completion tools */ sure, archive while doing so

{{:WM:WISHLIST2016/Category header|Bots and gadgets|Commons}}

== Automatic import and formatting of literature references from selected database sources ==
* '''Problem''': Literature references have to be formatted manually, even if they are accessible through unique identifiers (e.g. PubMed ID, DOI). This is time-consuming, leads to errors and a diversity of styles that is sometimes not helpful.

* '''Who would benefit''': Editors (and readers)

* '''Proposed solution''': Add support in such a way that the contributor simply has to supply the literature identifier for the article to be cited (e.g. the PubMed ID or DOI) and the software (not only VE but also the source editor) autocompletes and formats properly the literature reference.
::Example: typing the PMID number "27765289" should insert a reference like this: <nowiki><ref></nowiki>Masukume G, Kipersztok L, Das D, Shafee TM, Laurent MR, Heilman JM: ''Medical journals and Wikipedia: a global health matter.'' Lancet Glob Health. 2016 Nov;4(11):e791. {{DOI|10.1016/S2214-109X(16)30254-6}}. PMID: 27765289. <nowiki></ref></nowiki>

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': --[[User:Furfur|Furfur]] ([[User talk:Furfur|talk]]) 15:00, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Citations/Automatic import and formatting of literature references from selected database sources/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
:enWikipedia has a gadget whose name I don't remember that can do this for DOI and ISBN. Citoid can do so as well. However, only a few identifiers can be processed this way. [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 15:27, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
::Well, for all Medicine-related articles PubMed would be useful. And this could also be extended to other data sources that have unique identifiers and a clear data structure. These are quite a lot. There exist some [[Comparison of reference management software|reference management softwares]] that are capable of retrieving citations from a wide variety of databases. --[[User:Furfur|Furfur]] ([[User talk:Furfur|talk]]) 17:16, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
::Aye, having a much broader system would be very desirable. Typing out the citation info is among the most boring parts of article writing. [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 09:24, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
:::A half measure might be to have a template (e.g. <nowiki>{{find-cite |PMID= |DOI= | ISBN= }}</nowiki>) that would flag a bot to fill in the details. [[User:Bcharles|Bcharles]] ([[User talk:Bcharles|talk]]) 22:24, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
::::enWikipedia does actually support it through their visual editor; the "Cite" tool has a tab for automatic generation of citations from URL, DOI or PMID identifiers. The output uses a combination of <nowiki><ref /></nowiki> tags and the "[[en:Help:Citation Style 1|Citation Style 1]]" family of templates (e.g. [[en:Template:Cite journal|Cite journal]], [[en:Template:Cite book|Cite book]], etc.).
::::For example, submitting the PMID of '27765289' given above autopopulates the following citation in the "Cite journal" template:
:::::<nowiki><ref></nowiki>{{Cite journal|last=Masukume|first=Gwinyai|last2=Kipersztok|first2=Lisa|last3=Das|first3=Diptanshu|last4=Shafee|first4=Thomas M. A.|last5=Laurent|first5=Michaël R.|last6=Heilman|first6=James M.|date=2016-11-01|title=Medical journals and Wikipedia: a global health matter|url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27765289|journal=The Lancet. Global Health|volume=4|issue=11|pages=e791|doi=10.1016/S2214-109X(16)30254-6|issn=2214-109X|pmid=27765289}}<nowiki></ref></nowiki>
::::So it may just be a matter of incorporating this existing function into the wikitext [[en:Help:Edit toolbar|Edit toolbar]]. — [[User:Sasuke Sarutobi|Sasuke Sarutobi]] ([[User talk:Sasuke Sarutobi|talk]]) 18:25, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi {{U|Furfur}} - just a heads-up, I've moved your proposal to this Citations page. -- [[User:DannyH (WMF)|DannyH (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DannyH (WMF)|talk]]) 01:46, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
 Hello {{U|DannyH (WMF)}}, ok, thank you! I still think this would be useful ... --[[User:Furfur|Furfur]] ([[User talk:Furfur|talk]]) 02:03, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
* I think this is implemented in the visual editor (beta). --[[User:Gerwoman|Gerwoman]] ([[User talk:Gerwoman|talk]]) 18:14, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
=== Voting – Automatic import and formatting of literature references ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 06:30, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Léna|Léna]] ([[User talk:Léna|talk]]) 11:09, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}}--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 17:12, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 21:35, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 00:00, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 15:09, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}, seems like something which can be implemented to good use via Citoid.--''[[User:Telaneo|Telaneo]]'' ([[User talk:Telaneo|User talk page]]) 21:30, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Comment}} This is possible to realize technically, but the Wikipedia guideline [[:w:WP:CITESTYLE]] states "''Wikipedia does not have a single house style, though citations within any given article should follow a consistent style.''". There would be necessary to change the guideline first. It is improbable that it can be resolved within a year. I think, it is against the Wikipedia policy to create the tool, that will contravene wikipedia guideline. Therefore I formally request to '''withdraw this proposal from Voting'''. --[[User:Snek01|Snek01]] ([[User talk:Snek01|talk]]) 21:37, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#: Since each editor is responsible for their own edits, this means they also must abide by consistent citation styles in an article, no matter which tool is available to them. So, I disagree with this proposal being withdrawn. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 17:31, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
#:: The use of this tool should not be a must. It should be a useful tool for the contributors. But I agree that some consensus has to be found for the citation format of various data sources. However, these kind of – if you like, "enforced" – consensuses already exist in the form of various citation templates like <nowiki>{{Cite news}}</nowiki>, <nowiki>{{Cite journal}}</nowiki>, <nowiki>{{Cite news}}</nowiki>, etc., and these templates are widely used. The discussion about the format must in my view not be concluded before the introduction of such a tool. Since it would be a centrally defined format it could be changed at any time, if desired, after suitable discussion. I also would not find it helpful if every single data source would have a different citation format and we would have to discuss this. --[[User:Furfur|Furfur]] ([[User talk:Furfur|talk]]) 21:48, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 08:44, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Connor Behan|Connor Behan]] ([[User talk:Connor Behan|talk]]) 18:37, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jsamwrites|Jsamwrites]] ([[User talk:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 18:43, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Such a tool would become more useful every single day. [[User:DGtal|DGtal]] ([[User talk:DGtal|talk]]) 18:54, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{comment}} See [[en:Template:Cite doi]] and [[en:Template:Cite pmid]], both deprecated. —[[User:Patrug|Patrug]] ([[User talk:Patrug|talk]]) 21:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Miyagawa|Miyagawa]] ([[User talk:Miyagawa|talk]]) 22:41, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} Citoid already handles this and I wrote a script that turns the bare DOI URL into list-defined refs. I think of this suggestion as just supporting what Citoid is already doing (expands bare URLs using the Zotero translator collection). [[User:Czar|czar]] 00:51, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 02:21, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Continua Evoluzione|Continua Evoluzione]] ([[User talk:Continua Evoluzione|talk]]) 13:52, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 13:59, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Emir of Wikipedia|Emir of Wikipedia]] ([[User talk:Emir of Wikipedia|talk]]) 15:13, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} great idea [[User:Oaktree b|Oaktree b]] ([[User talk:Oaktree b|talk]]) 16:25, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Agree --[[User:Athikhun.suw|Athikhun.suw]] ([[User talk:Athikhun.suw|talk]]) 06:53, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Ranjithsiji|Ranjithsiji]] ([[User talk:Ranjithsiji|talk]]) 03:29, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:11, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:By erdo can|''By erdo can'']] • [[User talk:By erdo can|TLK]] 17:00, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Hugo|Hugo]] ([[User talk:Hugo|talk]]) 18:47, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} Like other editors, I see this as something that would be very helpful, but I am having trouble seeing how this process could take into account how the citation format may vary from page to page. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:11, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
#: Naturally this could only work in cases where there is a clearly defined data structure (e.g., articles in a scientific journal or (possibly) in a newspaper, items in a database, etc.). However, this should be the case in many data collections as evident from [[:en:Reference management software|reference management softwares]] like [[:en:EndNote|EndNote]], [[:en:Reference Manager|Reference Manager]], [[:en:Bookends|Bookends]] (my favourite), or many others. These can retrieve citations from a large variety of sources and the user can easily add new sources by defining their data structure. --[[User:Furfur|Furfur]] ([[User talk:Furfur|talk]]) 21:48, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Zoeperkoe|Zoeperkoe]] ([[User talk:Zoeperkoe|talk]]) 08:13, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} I still go to off-wiki tools for citation formatting. It would be nice to pull this on-wiki. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 18:40, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}}- Useful, if can support different citation styles. [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 19:41, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Afernand74|Afernand74]] ([[User talk:Afernand74|talk]]) 08:21, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Geolina163|Geolina163]] ([[User talk:Geolina163|talk]]) 08:50, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:H. sapiens|H. sapiens]] ([[User talk:H. sapiens|talk]]) 10:15, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Sigbert|sigbert]] ([[User talk:Sigbert|talk]]) 12:28, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]] ([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]]) 15:08, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} — [[User:NickK|NickK]] ([[User talk:NickK|talk]]) 18:26, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} — --[[User:Ambre Troizat|Ambre Troizat]] ([[User talk:Ambre Troizat|talk]]) 10:58, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 20:57, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Furfur|Furfur]] ([[User talk:Furfur|talk]]) 21:08, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Better support for commonly used sources==
* '''Problem''': I have a set of commonly used sources (some books) and it would be useful and much less cumbersome if I could insert them into new articles without the rigmarole of reloading, editing and copying from another wiki page (keeping in mind that I may edit from multiple computers and therefore can't store them outside of wiki)

* '''Who would benefit''': Editors

* '''Proposed solution''': Make it easier for editors to store and withdraw sources from a set they already have

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:LT910001|LT910001]] ([[User talk:LT910001|talk]]) 07:10, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Citations/Better support for commonly used sources/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* {{ping|LT910001}} This sounds a bit like [http://librarybase.wmflabs.org/wiki/Librarybase:About Librarybase] if I understand correctly (also see the [[phab:project/profile/1608/|WikiCite]] project)? Clarification welcome. :) --[[User:AKlapper (WMF)|AKlapper (WMF)]] ([[User talk:AKlapper (WMF)|talk]]) 13:32, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

* To maximize the utility value for all editors, perhaps this could be implemented in the form of "editor macros" as follows: Each user could define a number of macros in Preferences where each macro definition would consist of a user-definable name and a replacement string. When a user presses "Send" or "Preview" in the edit window, the Wiki software would scan the edited wiki text for macro names and if found replace them by the replacement string. If the user would define a citation as f.e. <tt>@MYCITE1@</tt> this could be used to implant citations into the text, but it could be also used for all kinds of other repeating strings (and therefore it would be more flexible than a specific solution for citations only). --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 21:42, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

* For books, the solution is covered in the proposal "Add ISBN support to VisualEditor" (immediately below, at the moment), since all that is required is typing a 10 or 13 digit number. For scientific journals, DOI already works well. What else do you commonly use for citations? -- [[User:John Broughton|John Broughton]] ([[User talk:John Broughton|talk]]) 05:52, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
*: Sources that output MLA formatted citations (or other standard citation formats) but no DOI. [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 09:52, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi {{U|LT910001}} - just a heads-up, I've moved your proposal to this Citations page. -- [[User:DannyH (WMF)|DannyH (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DannyH (WMF)|talk]]) 01:47, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

* Hello {{ping|LT910001}}, would your need be covered by the [[Wikidata:WikiProject Source MetaData]] ? [[User:Lea Lacroix (WMDE)|Lea Lacroix (WMDE)]] ([[User talk:Lea Lacroix (WMDE)|talk]]) 08:09, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

* AutoHotKey is how I do it. Very fast and customized paste-in of various templates. -- [[User:Green Cardamom|Green Cardamom]] ([[User talk:Green Cardamom|talk]]) 19:14, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Better support for commonly used sources ===
#{{s}} per my somewhat more general/flexible suggestion above --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 23:46, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{o}} Good problem but not great solution—instead encourage use of clipboard managers for power editors (macros to your heart's content) [[User:Czar|czar]] 00:39, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} The problem is relevant and the proposed solution will surely make improvement. Of course, we may switch to something more straightforward once it comes up as an idea.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 14:06, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Actually a very useful idea. Storing the data in user subpages and loading the data into the citation machine. I love this feature and use a lot on MS Word. {{Smiley|1}} --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 02:49, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} - suffer same problem, useful tool. [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 19:43, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} — I put a section on my user page with common citations in the past, precisely to solve this problem. If it had been built into the interface it would have make life easier. —[[User:Ynhockey|Ynhockey]] ([[User talk:Ynhockey|talk]]) 09:32, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 21:00, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Citation quality assessment ==

* '''Problem''': In the Wikipedias we currently have no metrics or even a general grasp as to the reliability or suitability of citations used throughout the wiki. This hinders editors' and readers' ability to judge reliability of particular sources or the overall quality of sourcing in an article (or group of articles).

* '''Who would benefit''': Wikipedia readers and editors; all media and their consumers

* '''Proposed solution''': Provide a way for users with well-rounded citing experience (perhaps having a special user right) to qualitatively assess, via a simple survey, citations with respect to various criteria (see "Examples of evaluation criteria" below). These assessments would aggregate for individual articles and various groups of articles (subject areas, WikiProjects, time periods, etc.) to determine the overall quality of sourcing. There would also be assessment aggregation for media organizations (e.g., newspapers and book publishers), and perhaps even authors, broken down in various ways (esp. time periods).
** Examples of evaluation criteria:
*** Does the citation adequately support the preceding or otherwise associated content? (Strongly Agree/Somewhat Agree/Unsure/Somewhat Disagree/Strongly Disagree)
**** Does it support all content back to the previous citation or start of the section (whichever applies first)? (Y/N)
*** Does the source cover this content in a neutral manner? (i.e., does it give voice to all reasonable ''relevant'' points of view, not just culturally dominant ones?) (Strongly Agree->Strongly Disagree)
*** Does the source have financial interests of any kind (advertising, university funding, etc.) that may present a conflict of interest with respect to the content the source covers? (Strongly Agree->Strongly Disagree) (Note: I wouldn't expect many evaluators to be able to answer this, but I think it's a fair question that is compatible with this proposal)

* '''More comments''':
** This would be a mechanism to help improve the overall quality of sourcing in Wikipedia while potentially holding media organizations accountable (a good side effect).
** If a citation is assessed to not have the highest degree of quality for the content it is covering, this may spur the search for a more appropriate source with which to cite. The more this is done, the more reliable an article or group of articles become, assuming subsequent citation evaluations.
** [[:wikidata:Wikidata:WikiProject Source MetaData|Wikidata:WikiProject Source MetaData]], given it is the future of ID'ing and tying together citation uses across wikis, would be a prerequisite and thus the foundation of this proposal.
** Ultimately, perhaps a "Citation Quality" badge based on the aggregated metrics for the page could be displayed for readers. This is a signal to the reader to "how well backed up" the article is.
** Please anyone help me improve this idea, as there may be many blanks to fill in.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 17:44, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Citations/Citation quality assessment/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*I imagine there would be some difficulty in tracking assessments to individual citations. Perhaps this assessment would have to take place on a revision of an article rather than the "current" version. At least then the cites would be in a steady state and therefore could be ID'd. If these assessments would migrate to subsequent revisions, there would have be some minor AI that decides that the citation is the same as before, or similar enough, whereby the assessment stands. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 18:44, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
* This isn't quite as simple as one would believe, as the tool must identify which part of the text is in fact covered through a citation. There is also the problem of identifying the factoids in the citation, and how the cited source use those factoids. Existence of an identified factoid does not imply that the cited source actually confirm them, it can make a negative claim. The simplest solution is to identify a citation and assume it cover the previous period, then a metric would be number of citations divided by number of periods. That would give a coarse number, but it could be usable for some (g)estimations.
:Yes I have made some efforts on solving this problem, and we can at least verify correct citations. That would imply storage of cited text fragments, but that is legal in most jurisdictions. If we want to do inference from the cited source, then the project would be a lot more difficult. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 21:18, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
::I am thinking of this as a qualitative survey that has the assessor make judgment calls perhaps by picking a Strongly Agree -> Strongly Disagree (or similar) rank on a few questions. Perhaps this could also include a free-form note where the assessor says how far back the cite covers, or what factoids are covered and which or not, and where to look on the cited material page. I'm not looking for anywhere near absolute precision. Of course, implementing all this wouldn't be easy. I'm basically looking for a way to test the cites and test the journalism simultaneously, for Wikipedia's and the media's mutual interest. 21:52, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
:::This would be pretty difficult to implement without [[:wikidata:Wikidata:WikiProject Source MetaData|Wikidata:WikiProject Source MetaData]]. For practical purposes, that will probably be a prerequisite. [[User:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|Ryan Kaldari (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|talk]]) 23:22, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
*I appreciate all the feedback so far. I'm not "married" to my proposed solution, so any ideas anyone wants to bring forward to solve the stated problem are welcome, and I will try to improve the solution. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 22:54, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
*I have just made a number of updates, influenced by the feedback of {{u|Jeblad}} and {{u|Ryan Kaldari (WMF)}}. Note that I am keeping this as a qualitative survey and not a technical connecting of source text to factoids at this point. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 18:04, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

* I think you have confused "citation" with ''source''. The latter is where we find material, a ''citation'' is what describes or points to the source. Assuming that you want evaluations of cited ''sources'': this proposal is not well thought-out. The reliability, suitability, applicability, etc. of a source is ''strongly'' dependent on its ''use'', and for that we have to rely on the judgment of the editor making the cite. To improve that it would probably be more fruitful to work up a guideline for edtiors. ~ [[en:User:J. Johnson|J. Johnson]] ([[User talk:J. Johnson|talk]]) 23:01, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
** As a 12-year editor of Wikipedia, I don't think I can confuse these things, but perhaps the presentation of the proposal does so, and I will be happy to take steps to amend. What I am seeking is a qualitative evaluation of the source ''as used'' for the citation in backing up the content that is presented. Of course we rely on the judgment of the editor in creating the cite, but this proposal calls for an assessment of these cites so as to ascertain the reliability or suitability of citations, with assessments being aggregated. If there's a better way to present this, I would appreciate some example changes of text in the proposal. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 23:19, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
*** For what you seem to want I suppose each project could be encouraged to form teams of editors knowledgable in that area who could review each article in that project. But this proposal doesn't present any definite concept of what is wanted, which I think is a failure of concept. I don't know how to remedy that. ~ [[User:J. Johnson|J. Johnson]] ([[User talk:J. Johnson|talk]]) 22:58, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

*'''Question''' What about citations to websites that become dead links? The citation may have been in order when it was made, but over time the web address has changed or there is some other cause. What would happen in a case like this under your proposal? [[User:Michael Glass|Michael Glass]] ([[User talk:Michael Glass|talk]]) 05:34, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
**Thank you for the question, but I would consider that a development detail that has more to do with a prerequisite (blocking task) such as [[:wikidata:Wikidata:WikiProject Source MetaData|Wikidata:WikiProject Source MetaData]]. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 06:09, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
**Also I would note that just because a dead link has become dead, that doesn't mean it can't be recovered (usually) and that the quality assessment of it (when live) becomes dead. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 12:25, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
* '''Question''' Just how is this different from the typical & expected process of debating sources on the Talk pages? Based on what I read so far, this proposal is simply reinventing the wheel, a wheel that works better than an unproven proposal. -- [[User:Llywrch|Llywrch]] ([[User talk:Llywrch|talk]]) 06:41, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
**It's different because specific quality data is being collected, and then aggregated to inform editors and readers. Discussions do many things but not these things. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 12:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
* General comment: Given the aim of the proposal, if this move moves forward I would hope to see the evaluation criteria provide suitable accommodation for citation resources that are generated by independent or community based outlets/authors, particularly those from racialized or non-Western demographics. The nature of the verifiability process, for example, can discredit smaller publication outlets because they aren't deemed reputable enough, which in some cases is fair, while in others is a way to discredit legitimate news sources generated from underrepresented communities that sit outside mainstream (and increasingly homogenized) media outlets, etc.--[[User:Dnllnd|Dnllnd]] ([[User talk:Dnllnd|talk]]) 14:19, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Citation quality assessment ===
# {{support}} as proposer. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 01:51, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}}--[[User:Shizhao|Shizhao]] ([[User talk:Shizhao|talk]]) 02:34, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} would be a great way to expand the applications of the machine learning tools as well. This is important for reader literacy, [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 14:53, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 01:33, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} --[[User:Tarjeimo|Tarjeimo]] ([[User talk:Tarjeimo|talk]]) 21:54, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} – and best of luck! [[User:AWhiteC|AWhiteC]] ([[User talk:AWhiteC|talk]]) 18:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} To assess the quality of a news provider, one needs to know about many things: the company's history, the lives of its authors, the politics surrounding its subject matter and the frequency with which they are refuted by other commentators. All of these things change with time and even with millions more editors, there would be no way for us to objectively catalog every source in the world as being good or bad. Users with well-rounded citing experience already have a mechanism for improving the quality of sourcing. That mechanism is reading an article and applying whatever tags may be warranted (citation needed, unreliable source, dubious, clarify, not in citation given, non-primary source needed). If that sounds time consuming, you bet it is. The people doing this would probably appreciate your help more than a vague, McCarthy-esque layer of micromanagement. [[User:Connor Behan|Connor Behan]] ([[User talk:Connor Behan|talk]]) 19:02, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#: Thank you for expressing your concerns. To clarify one aspect, this is about assessing the quality of the citation with respect to the actual content in the source. The person doing this isn't making a full judgment of the news provider -- just a judgment about the specific material ''as used'' for the cite. If there's any potential "judgement" of the news provider, it comes in aggregates of assessments. Also, certainly the process of citing should get all the assistance it needs. This proposal is a quality assessment not just for the sake of editors, though. We're here for the readers too. They deserve to be able to get an idea of "how well backed up" an article's content is. The "McCarthy-esque" part doesn't really need a response, as QA and the expectation of quality is anything but that. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 22:22, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Completely unrealistic. As Connor described above, editors already use considerable judgment to do these things whenever we want to, using template tags & article reviews & quality assessments & policy guidelines & Talk page comments, and I see nothing in this proposal that's likely to improve the situation. Sorry. —[[User:Patrug|Patrug]] ([[User talk:Patrug|talk]]) 21:04, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#: These are all important activities, no doubt, but I don't see how they address the Problem as I stated in the proposal. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 18:56, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} Verification is, I believe, ''the'' paramount concern of Wikipedia readers and perhaps even the editors. I agree that WP doesn't have any solid mechanism for showing (1) how well the citation verifies the source, and (2) the veracity of the statement itself, but I also agree that the above as proposed isn't the solution. Based on the wiki format, readers/editors already have the tools to verify content and propose changes, even if the accessibility isn't there. The idea of a survey to assess quality reminds me of the reader feedback that used to appear at the bottom of the pages. I liked that, personally, but I also know it was removed because more people disagreed. [[User:Czar|czar]] 00:46, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#:Note that this would not be general public feedback like the reader feedback. This would be done only by those editors deemed to understand citations/sourcing. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 06:23, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} I am concerned that there is a great imbalance between citing facts from 1) a scarce set of sources and 2) an abundant set of sources. The problem here is that readers usually do not know if the citation they are assessing belongs in 1) or 2), so they will most likely treat all citations the same, assuming that there is an equal amount of sources available. This information asymmetry will inevitably end up in scores for different citations that are not comparable one to another, which may be easily converted into inappropriate recommendations to work with the limited resources for the lower quality citations (the quality assessment will become a [[en:The Market for Lemons|market for lemons]]). To explain this more concisely, here is an example:{{pb}}Suppose that fact A is cited with an average source out of 5 available and fact B is cited with an average source out of 500 available. Given the vastly larger size of the set of sources for fact B compared to the one for fact A, it is more likely that the average quality of sources is higher and the best source is with higher quality for fact B than for fact A. A reader assessing the citations quality for fact A and fact B normally assumes that they were both taken from sets with the same size, say, 100 each. The outcome of the quality assessment will be higher score for the citation of fact B than for fact A, indicating higher priority to work on improving the quality citation of fact A. Since the set of sources for fact A is small, the quality improvement is limited and the overall result will be insignificant.{{pb}}In fact, there are many Wikipedia articles on topics that have small sets of sources available (with average quality that barely exceeds the minimum threshold of reliability), where any improvement of the citations quality will not result in a significant positive change.--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 15:40, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#: These are certainly very useful concerns, so I would hope they would be considered carefully when devising a citation assessment approach. It seems a bit too complex for me to answer very well at this stage. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 19:01, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} For example: is [[en:Fox News|Fox News]] a credible source? A lot of people I know would say no, other would say yes. Is [[en:The Huffington Post|The Huffington Post]] a credible source? A lot of people I know would say no, other would say yes. Fundamentally, citations are there so that if a user wants more information, or if they disagree with what they've read, they can go and look at the source for themselves. Then they can determine if the source is credible or not.
#: Those doing these assessments would have to work by a guideline that is testing the actual source content against the wiki content per the citation. They wouldn't be grading the overall media company. We certainly should have a guideline against doing that (in case it's not obvious). Also, this assessment would not be open to all editors -- just ones who have proven knowledgeable with respect to citations/sourcing. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 18:54, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} The use(fulness) of sources depends on the circumstances, they need to be assessed individually and not automatically. --[[User:Andropov|Andropov]] ([[User talk:Andropov|talk]]) 17:44, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
#: This proposal is for individual assessment by human editors. There is no call for automatic assessments. The only thing that might be considered automatic would be the aggregation of assessments done by these human editors. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 18:48, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} - What can't be measured can't be managed, assessment metrics can help assessors in their job. [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 19:48, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{neutral}} Good in theory, but nigh impossible to achieve. '''[[User:ArgonSim|ArgonSim]]''' ([[User talk:ArgonSim|talk]]) 18:16, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}}: No definite concept of just what is wanted. (As to providing a metric: how? on what basis? Not explained.) ~ [[User:J. Johnson|J. Johnson]] ([[User talk:J. Johnson|talk]]) 23:03, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Completely unrealistic, the difficulty is on par with teaching robots to write articles. Better direct team efforts to less fantastical endeavors like suggesting sources from other language versions. [[User:Ivan Pozdeev|Ivan Pozdeev]] ([[User talk:Ivan Pozdeev|talk]]) 12:00, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 21:02, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Improve automated, full-page, bare-link citation completion tools ==

* '''Problem''': None of the common automated, full-page, bare-link citation completion tools (ReFill, Reflinks, etc.) seem to go very far in completing a citation, and often leave too much manual work for the editor.

* '''Who would benefit''': Wikipedia editors

* '''Proposed solution''': Put some development resources into improving these tools. Find out ways where they are lacking (like not usually adding author/work/date or using the correct citation templates). Make these cite completion tools more, er, complete.

* '''More comments''': If these tools can't be improved much further in terms of completing the citations, they should at least make it easier to manually complete the cites. Sending us to a preview/diff page doesn't really help here. Each improved cite should be presented directly for filling in missing information.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 18:27, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Citations/Improve automated, full-page, bare-link citation completion tools/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* Use citoid? It should be possible to complete existing templates with the tool, now the template can only be manually edited. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 18:55, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
* {{yo|Stevietheman}} It sounds like you want a tool that does what [[mw:Citoid|Citoid]] does, but acts on each bare link on the entire page. However one could edit using VisualEditor, and selectively use Citoid, where they'd be able to fix any errors that may happen. If you are not familiar with VisualEditor and/or Citoid, would mind trying it out and see if this fulfills your needs? Otherwise maybe we clarify this proposal to be an implementation of Citoid that acts on the entire page (like ReFill and Reflinks), rather than having to go through each reference one by one. This would ensure voters know exactly what they're supporting/opposing during the voting phase. Thanks for your participation! [[User:MusikAnimal (WMF)|MusikAnimal (WMF)]] ([[User talk:MusikAnimal (WMF)|talk]]) 19:16, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
*Jeblad and MusikAnimal, this is about tools that fix bare-link citations on the whole page, pulling information from the URLs in the cites. This shouldn't have anything to do with the editing tool. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 21:32, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi {{U|Stevietheman}} - just a heads-up, I've moved two of your proposals to this Citations page. -- [[User:DannyH (WMF)|DannyH (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DannyH (WMF)|talk]]) 01:46, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Improve automated, full-page, bare-link citation completion tools ===
# {{support}} as proposer. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 01:51, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} or an option to edit a bare link citation with citoid!! [[User:Ninovolador|Ninovolador]] ([[User talk:Ninovolador|talk]]) 11:30, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}} Already exists in Citoid, and will be integrated into the next generation Wikitext editor, [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 14:51, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#:Does Citoid automatically run across a full page, converting all bare links into full cites? I just want to make sure we're not comparing apples to oranges here. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 14:53, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#::No, but it greatly simplifies targeted footnote expansion. The problem with doing batch fixes, is that most folks won't take the time to gut check the citation to make sure it's thorough. The current situation forces systematic review of the citation itself and examining the citation in context of the verifiable context, which is much preferable IMO. [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 13:28, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#:::I appreciate your concern here and it is generally best for editors to pay attention to specific citations to get them just right. However, I come across many articles with many bare links, and making them all much better than before with an automatic tool is a welcome stop-gap. These cites can always be improved further at a later time. I just want the automatic full-page tools to be as complete in their work as possible. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 15:42, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Would like to see redoubled efforts to auto-complete at least "work", "publisher" and "date" for a wider range of citations[[User:Noyster|Noyster]] ([[User talk:Noyster|talk]]) 13:58, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Connor Behan|Connor Behan]] ([[User talk:Connor Behan|talk]]) 18:37, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# I have a script that does this—just need to clean it up and do more testing for use cases that aren't my own [[User:Czar|czar]] 00:47, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:JB82|JB82]] ([[User talk:JB82|talk]]) 01:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 02:16, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 13:57, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} Please at least localize them. We lack such tools in smaller Wikis. [[User:4nn1l2|4nn1l2]] ([[User talk:4nn1l2|talk]]) 15:50, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:SBaker43|SBaker43]] ([[User talk:SBaker43|talk]]) 23:52, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Ranjithsiji|Ranjithsiji]] ([[User talk:Ranjithsiji|talk]]) 03:28, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Thunderforge|Thunderforge]] ([[User talk:Thunderforge|talk]]) 15:10, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Afernand74|Afernand74]] ([[User talk:Afernand74|talk]]) 08:21, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Iadmc|Iadmc]] ([[User talk:Iadmc|talk]]) 04:46, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 20:51, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} Should also trigger and link to an archive capture of the url target, be that WikiWix, or Archive-it, or something local. There's no excuse anymore for allowing content based on subsequently-dead links to become unsupported. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 18:03, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Label erroneous Harv-style references ==

* '''Problem''': This may apply only to English Wikipedia, but linked Harvard-style short references (e.g. "Martel 1998") without corresponding full citations are not flagged as errors. A Javascript, [[en:User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js]], helps readers find these errors, but without it, the errors exist silently, with no error message or tracking category.

* '''Who would benefit''': Readers trying to verify sources, Good Article assessors trying to make sure that sources are present, gnomes who fix pages.

* '''Proposed solution''': Implement a way to flag these errors in Wikimedia. Maybe turn the script into a gadget?

* '''More comments''': Example article that shows this problem: Try clicking on the "Martel 1998" short citations in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Early_political_career_of_Habib_Bourguiba&oldid=747550988#Notes this version of "Early political career of Habib Bourguiba"].

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 17:08, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Citations/Label erroneous Harv-style references/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* I can see the useful of this in my examination of cites in an article. Good idea. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 18:34, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
* {{ping|Jonesey95}} Have you suggested turning the script into a gadget? I can't see anything at [[w:en:User:Ucucha/HarvErrors]] since the 2011 proposal. That should be a simple process, and not require a wishlist entry. However, I guess you're probably highlighting the available feature in order to gauge potential interest from other languages/projects, and I see there are many other projects using [[d:Q6535844|template:Sfn]] and related templates, so more international feedback would be helpful here. [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 20:40, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi {{U|Jonesey95}} - just a heads-up, I've moved your proposal to this Citations page. -- [[User:DannyH (WMF)|DannyH (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DannyH (WMF)|talk]]) 01:48, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

* There is a [[:ru:user:TextworkerBot|bot]] that labels all articles with erroneous Harv-style references on Russian wiki. [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 08:40, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
* While this appears ''prima facie'' to be useful, just how prevalent is this problem? Specifically, how often are Harvard-style references used in articles, & how many of these are flawed? -- [[User:Llywrch|Llywrch]] ([[User talk:Llywrch|talk]]) 06:35, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

* "Erroneous Harv-style references" can cover a multidie of errors, whereas short cites (of any kind) without a full citation is ''one'' kind of error. What other kinds of errors are contemplated here? ~ [[User:J. Johnson|J. Johnson]] ([[User talk:J. Johnson|talk]]) 23:11, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Label erroneous Harv-style references ===
# {{support}} as a gadget, at least. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 03:21, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} This script has been really helpful and I would support integrating it into the normal CS1 error reporting or, secondarily, adding it to the gadget list [[User:Czar|czar]] 00:49, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 02:18, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 13:58, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Emir of Wikipedia|Emir of Wikipedia]] ([[User talk:Emir of Wikipedia|talk]]) 15:13, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:SBaker43|SBaker43]] ([[User talk:SBaker43|talk]]) 23:43, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Let's keep the inline citation style consistent. -- [[User:Kndimov|Kndimov]] ([[User talk:Kndimov|talk]]) 00:12, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Ranjithsiji|Ranjithsiji]] ([[User talk:Ranjithsiji|talk]]) 03:28, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} per [[User:Czar]] --[[User:Hedwig in Washington|Hedwig in Washington]] ([[User talk:Hedwig in Washington|talk]]) 02:52, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}}- Useful. [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 19:36, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:Rdrozd|Rdrozd]] ([[User talk:Rdrozd|talk]]) 22:25, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]] ([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]]) 15:11, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}}, until it is clarified whether the proposed labelling is for just this one condition of incompleteness, or would cover various other errors. ~ [[User:J. Johnson|J. Johnson]] ([[User talk:J. Johnson|talk]])
# {{support}} I have come across this issue a few times and have sometimes been stumped because the editor who placed the citation has retired and there is nothing that might relate to the citation elsewhere in the footnotes (like ''Martel, Pierre-Albin (1999)...'' in the present case). Flagging these as an error may help editors who wander onto the page, know nothing of [[en:User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js]], and recognise the citation to create/amend the bibliographical entry as appropriate [[User:Iadmc|Iadmc]] ([[User talk:Iadmc|talk]]) 04:57, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 20:53, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Add button for inserting blank citation templates in wikitext editor ==

'''note:''' ''WTE'' '''==''' ''wikitext editor''

* '''Problem''': flawed functionality for insertion of citation templates in current WTE.
:# Copy/paste of citation templates is annoying and feels easily automated. Automating insertion of citation templates should make cite creation more accessible (i.e., more folks will add citations) and less error-prone (i.e., creators will make fewer errors).
:# The currently-provided functionality (popup dialog) is inappropriate for WTE users, esp those who mostly use external editors when composing, and who use WTE for its specialized value-adds (notably preview, diff, and the all-important save). GUIs are for Visual Editor.

* '''Who would benefit''':

:# Everyone who adds citations by WTE.
:# Everyone who reads articles, since ([[wikt:ceteris paribus#Adverb|c.p.]]) more/better citations tends to improve article quality.

* '''Proposed solution''': add to current and future WTEs a menu (à la ''Insert>Citation template>{book, journal,news, web, etc}'') that allows one to insert the ''empty'' '''wikitext''' for the chosen template. Note this proposal differs from functionality provided by the current WTE menu=<code>Cite</code>, which pops-up a GUI for filling in only a part of the chosen template. (And which therefore seems to me more appropriate for the Visual Editor--[[wikt:your_mileage_may_vary#Phrase|YMMV]].) I want automated insertion of the ''empty'' template '''wikitext''' into the editing textarea, so that I can fill-in the template (and do the rest of my editing) in an external editor: see section=<code>Usecase</code> following.

:* For candidate common templates, see (e.g.) column=<code>Common usage</code> in the body table under [[Wikipedia:Citation_templates#Examples|Citation template examples]].
:* Regarding WTE versions, see discussion by [[User:Neil P. Quinn-WMF]] below.{{pb}}'''Usecase:''' FWIW, I'm not only the kind of {dinosaur, poweruser} who uses the WTE, I also do the actual editing off-line, and just copy/paste into the WTE for preview, diff, and save ... except that I ''will'' use the WTE GUI for one sort of task: inserting things for which I don't remember the syntax. This I do currently almost entirely for redirects and the very-occasional table, but would appreciate GUI automation for the following currently-manual usecase:
:# In wikitext for article I'm editing (in separate buffer), create or reuse empty <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags. I don't use the GUI button=<code>Reference</code> for this, because I can remember that :-) and because the important thing is usually to find if someone else is already citing that datasource, and if so to reuse their <code>ref</code> name.
:# Search Wikipedia for the type of citation matching the datasource to which I want to make reference.
:# Browse to the chosen page (e.g., [[Template:Cite_web|this]]).
:# Browse that page, looking for something like <code>Full parameter set in vertical format</code>.
:# Copy that template text, paste between my <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags.
:# Fill-in template, continuing with usual {edit, preview, save} loop (copying to WTE as needed).

::Instead, I'd prefer to

:# In wikitext for article I'm editing (in separate buffer), create or reuse empty <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags.
:# Copy my editor buffer's contents to WTE, move cursor between my <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags.
:# Choose <code>Insert > Citation template ></code> ''whatever'' from the proposed WTE GUI.
:# Copy WTE editing area (<code>C-a C-insert</code>) back to my editor's buffer.
:# Fill-in template, continuing with usual {edit, preview, save} loop (copying to WTE as needed).

* '''Phabricator tickets''': not at this time, lemme know if that needs done.

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Tlroche|Tlroche]] ([[User talk:Tlroche|talk]]) 22:55, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Citations/Add button for inserting blank citation templates in wikitext editor/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

* enWikipedia has a gadget whose name I don't remember that can do this for DOI and ISBN. Citoid can do so as well. However, only a few identifiers can be processed this way. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:27, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
** Well, for all Medicine-related articles PubMed would be useful. And this could also be extended to other data sources that have unique identifiers and a clear data structure. These are quite a lot. There exist some reference management softwares that are capable of retrieving citations from a wide variety of databases. --Furfur (talk) 17:16, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
*** {{ping|Furfur}}, {{ping|Tlroche}}, {{ping|Jo-Jo Eumerus}}, PMCs and PMIDs are both already supported by citoid, as are URL and DOI. ISBN is not currently supported, although probably will be within the next few weeks or so. In wikitext editor in en wiki, go Cite -> Template -> Cite journal -> and there's a little magnifying glass you can use to fill the citation based on a supplied identifier (PMID/PMC, DOI, URL). It's not available in other languages in wikitext editors, but universal support is planned for the new wikitext editor, here is the task for it: [[phabricator:T130400]] [[User:Mvolz (WMF)|Mvolz (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mvolz (WMF)|talk]]) 20:45, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
**** {{ping|Mvolz (WMF)}} thank you, that looks interesting. I did not find this functionality in the German language wikipedia. I tried it in en.WP with an example PMID but it apparently does to retrieve the full citation (e. g. the authors’ names, title, year, journal, volume, number, etc.), although the PMID is a clear and unambiguous identifier. This tool only inserts the PMID number with a link to PubMed. --[[User:Furfur|Furfur]] ([[User talk:Furfur|talk]]) 21:07, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
***** {{ping|Furfur}} Hmm, it worked with the first pmid I tried, 23555203. Which one did you try? Yes, it is not on de wiki. Unfortunately it is hardcoded for en wiki. [[phabricator:T130400]] will fix it so it can be used on any language wiki. [[User:Mvolz (WMF)|Mvolz (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mvolz (WMF)|talk]]) 21:13, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
****** {{ping|Mvolz (WMF)}} ok, I see that one has to click on the magnifying glass. Now it appears to work. A ''Nice-to-have'' feature for de.wikipedia. It should include as many database sources as possible. --[[User:Furfur|Furfur]] ([[User talk:Furfur|talk]]) 21:27, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
* Aye, having a much broader system would be very desirable. Typing out the citation info is among the most boring parts of article writing. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:24, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
*Is the problem here then just that to add [[mw:Citoid|Citoid]] support to the wikitext editor, [[phabricator:T130400|T130400]], or something else ? --[[User:Snaevar|Snaevar]] ([[User talk:Snaevar|talk]]) 23:48, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
* On the English Wikipedia, from the editor menu, we can already fill in forms for a few of the cite templates. If this could at least be expanded to include other cite templates, that would be great. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 16:26, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
** {{ping|Stevietheman}} Thanks for pointing out the existing functionality, which I don't use for reasons now edited into this wishlist item. Yes, I would definitely like more templates exposed via menu; no, I don't want more GUI forms--I just want to insert '''wikitext''' into the editing area, for editing externally (e.g., in [[w:GNU_Emacs|God's Own Editor]] :-) [[User:Tlroche|Tlroche]] ([[User talk:Tlroche|talk]]) 20:15, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
* Isn't this already planned for the [[mw:2017 wikitext editor|2017 wikitext editor]]? {{[[User:Nihiltres|Nihiltres]] |[[User talk:Nihiltres|talk]] |[[Special:Contributions/Nihiltres|edits]]}} 18:43, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
** {{ping|Nihiltres}} yes, it definitely is. But some editors may not want to switch to the 2017 editor immediately (or at all for that matter)—for example, because it doesn't support a gadget they rely on. So if this request is specifically for adding a Citoid button to the ''existing'' wikitext editor, it's a good wishlist request because the WMF Editing department doesn't have any plans to do that. {{ping|Tlroche}} if that's a fair description of your request, maybe add it to the description for clarity?—[[User:Neil P. Quinn-WMF|Neil P. Quinn-WMF]] ([[User talk:Neil P. Quinn-WMF|talk]]) 18:02, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
** {{ping|Neil P. Quinn-WMF}} thanks, done--or ping if not done well. [[User:Tlroche|Tlroche]] ([[User talk:Tlroche|talk]]) 20:15, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
*** {{ping|Neil P. Quinn-WMF}}, {{ping|Nihiltres}}, {{ping|Tlroche}}: Something similar was already done on en wiki by the community team, see [[phabricator:T94223]]. Do you mean doing this for other language wikis? [[User:Mvolz (WMF)|Mvolz (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mvolz (WMF)|talk]]) 20:45, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
**** {{ping|Mvolz (WMF)}} interesting, I didn't know CommTech had done that. But now that I reread [[User:Tlroche|Tlroche]]'s proposal, it seems I misunderstood it. They don't want a GUI where you can fill (or autofill) textboxes with reference material—they want a shortcut for inserting the wikitext blob of a citation template with empty fields, to be filled in later using a text editor. This specific feature isn't actually available in enwiki right now, or any other wiki as far as I know.—[[User:Neil P. Quinn-WMF|Neil P. Quinn-WMF]] ([[User talk:Neil P. Quinn-WMF|talk]]) 23:15, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Hi {{U|Tlroche}} - just a heads-up, I've moved your proposal to this Citations page. -- [[User:DannyH (WMF)|DannyH (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DannyH (WMF)|talk]]) 01:46, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

{{ping|Neil P. Quinn-WMF|Nihiltres}}, I'm a bit confused by the above discussion. Can anyone definitively state this proposal (inserting the wikitext blob of a citation template with empty fields) ''will'' be in the 2017 wikitext editor? Is it a plan or a definite will-do? If a definite will-do, I see no need for the WMF to take this on per this survey. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 15:35, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
* {{ping|Stevietheman}} sorry for the confusion—some of it is my fault for misunderstanding the original proposal! I'm not 100% certain of the team's plans for the 2017 wikitext editor (I work with them but I'm not on that team itself), but I'm pretty confident of the following:
** the 2017 editor ''will'' include a dialog box allowing the user to fill in text boxes with citation information (with the help of Citoid if desired) and then insert the ''finished'' wikitext into the page. This will be directly parallel to the feature in the visual editor (though for fundamental reasons it will not be possible to edit the generated citation as you can do in the visual editor).
** the 2017 editor will ''not'' include the precise feature described in this proposal, which would allow the user to insert the ''unfinished'' wikitext for a citation into the page, with blank fields to be filled in later.
: So, this very specific feature won't be available in the 2017 wikitext editor, and already isn't in the existing wikitext editor. In that sense, it's a reasonable wishlist request.—[[User:Neil P. Quinn-WMF|Neil P. Quinn-WMF]] ([[User talk:Neil P. Quinn-WMF|talk]]) 20:02, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
::Ideally, the string emitted when pressing that button should be user-configurable (in Preferences), so it could be used for other repeating stuff as well. As such this proposal is somewhat similar to another proposal "Better support for commonly used sources" listed further above. --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 23:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
*{{done}}? This already exists by clicking <nowiki>{{источник}}</nowiki> at the bottom of, say, [http://ru.wikinews.org/wiki/Gryllida?action=edit].
::<nowiki>Источники: * {{источник|url=|Название=|Автор=|Издатель=|Дата=}} {{источник?}} {{нет источников}} {{нет источников в разделе}} {{VOA|url=|title=|author=}} {{ЧК|}} {{kremlin|url=|title=}} {{IIP Digital|url=|title=|author=}} {{GlobalVoices|url=|title=|author=|original=}}</nowiki>
:Clicking any of these templates inserts them into the article body at the cursor position. --[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 23:34, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting – Add button for inserting blank citation templates in wikitext editor ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Strainu|Strainu]] ([[User talk:Strainu|talk]]) 10:12, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Ariconte|Ariconte]] ([[User talk:Ariconte|talk]]) 19:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} per my somewhat more general suggestion above --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 23:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} this general idea per clarifications above. The use case makes sense. [[User:Stevietheman|'''Stevie is the man!''']] [[User talk:Stevietheman|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stevietheman|Work]] 17:28, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Tournasol7|Tournasol7]] ([[User talk:Tournasol7|talk]]) 18:18, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}}[[User:Gryllida|Gryllida]] 23:34, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} -- [[User:CFynn|CFynn]] ([[User talk:CFynn|talk]]) 05:26, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 13:58, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} optional comment [[User:MartinThoma|MartinThoma]] ([[User talk:MartinThoma|talk]]) 14:50, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} I love this idea. Would make my life easier [[User:Hires an editor|Hires an editor]] ([[User talk:Hires an editor|talk]]) 01:54, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Please do this. Sesamehoneytart 04:01, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Ranjithsiji|Ranjithsiji]] ([[User talk:Ranjithsiji|talk]]) 03:29, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:By erdo can|''By erdo can'']] • [[User talk:By erdo can|TLK]] 17:00, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} This will help to improve the rest of the articles. Yes, it's good to improve any article, especially the worst cases in current seasons. - [[User:Nino Marakot|Nino Marakot]] ([[User talk:Nino Marakot|School time here, in computer lab]]) 07:45, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:DPdH|DPdH]] ([[User talk:DPdH|talk]]) 19:39, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Miniapolis|'''''Mini''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''apolis''''']] 20:55, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Community Wishlist Survey 2016/Categories/Wikidata

2016-12-09T04:48:59Z

LeadSongDog: /* Voting - Keep Wikidata in sync with external databases */

{{:WM:WISHLIST2016/Category header|Watchlists|WikiProjects}}

== Easy inter-project linking ==

* '''Problem''': Adding links between projects (i.e. same language, different project) in Wikidata is tedious. One must find manually the article on the other project, open Wikidata item, and add the link manually

* '''Who would benefit''': All projects mantainers

* '''Proposed solution''': [[Special:NewItem]] should have inter-project capabilities, not only inter-language

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T71735]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Ninovolador|Ninovolador]] ([[User talk:Ninovolador|talk]]) 13:09, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Easy inter-project linking/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

* I've never understood why the interlanguage links dialog is disabled after the first link is added. I think there is another report asking wider usage of the same dialog. [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 08:37, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

*That's something I also don't understand. It should be quite easy to fix interproject connectivity, because things already work as they should - but only in one very specific situation. It is possible to add a link ''to'' any language Wiki'''p'''edia ''from'' projects that don't use language codes (e.g. Commons). But this only works in the direction mentioned in the previous sentence and it fails if the Wikipedia page is already connected to an item. And the full Wikidata item will load if the non-Wikipedia page is already connected to Wikidata. So we need the interlanguage links dialog to appear whenever "edit links" is selected, the dialog needs to be improved to allow proper interproject linking, and creating the link shouldn't fail when the target page is already connected to an item - the link should be added to the existing item. [[User:Gareth|Gareth]] ([[User talk:Gareth|talk]]) 06:54, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Easy inter-project linking ===
# {{support}} as proposer [[User:Ninovolador|Ninovolador]] ([[User talk:Ninovolador|talk]]) 11:38, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 22:17, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Gareth|Gareth]] ([[User talk:Gareth|talk]]) 02:45, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} — [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 16:59, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Mikey641|Mikey641]] ([[User talk:Mikey641|talk]]) 18:21, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 08:12, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 00:47, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:57, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:05, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Ambre Troizat|Ambre Troizat]] ([[User talk:Ambre Troizat|talk]]) 11:06, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Improve QuickStatements ==

* '''Problem''': QuickStatements is a very convenient tool to add data in a semi-automatic way, but it lacks several important things:
**No "Stop" button to cancel a batch gone wild
**Only TAB can be used as a delimitor, which is great for people working with spreadsheets, but probably the worse character ever for people working with command line or editing directly in the web page text area. ([https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/wikidata-todo/issues/53/quickstatement-should-allow-creation-of issue])
**Restarting web browser runs QuickStatements again ([https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/wikidata-todo/issues/48/restarting-web-browser-runs issue])

* '''Who would benefit''': People who import data into Wikidata

* '''Proposed solution''': The developer is working on many other things, so it would be great if someone could help him improve the app, all of the source code is at https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/wikidata-todo

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 04:12, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Improve QuickStatements/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* I am afraid that this proposal might not meet the requirements outlined in [[2016 Community Wishlist Survey#What happens during the proposal phase?]], as three different requests are squashed into one single proposal. --[[User:AKlapper (WMF)|AKlapper (WMF)]] ([[User talk:AKlapper (WMF)|talk]]) 13:00, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
::[[User:AKlapper (WMF)]] the proposal is to "Improve QuickStatements", the rest are details better discussed on phabricator or bitbucket that Magnus uses. --[[User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] ([[User talk:Jarekt|talk]]) 04:59, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
* well to add to the things it would be nice to have in QuickStatements:
:* a way to add quantity values with units
:* a way to add multi-statement references (currently if you put in multiple S properties they get listed as separate references instead of combining into a single reference with several properties & values)
:[[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 14:54, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
:Support for larger effort of improving and expanding this great tool. I write templates that detect cases where information stored on commons should be moved to wikidata and provide QuickStatements code to move it. Unfortunately the code has be be fixed in a text editor (the tabs issue already mentioned) and has to be pasted by hand to quick statements. I would like to allow other characters than tab to be used as the spacer (maybe one of $ % & @ ) and allow to write URL that prefills QuickStatements with one or more commands. [[User:Magnus Manske]] is an one man army of tool development, but it seems to me he could use some help with the maintenance of the existing tools, so he can concentrate on the new tools.--[[User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] ([[User talk:Jarekt|talk]]) 04:54, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
:{{comment}} I'm all for it, but as a "Version 2" (fixing up the current one would be too messy). I'll need a proper plan, and time. Made a [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Magnus_Manske/quick_statements2 brainstorming page], please participate! --[[User:Magnus Manske|Magnus Manske]] ([[User talk:Magnus Manske|talk]]) 09:32, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Improve QuickStatements ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:19, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 16:06, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} --[[User:ValterVB|ValterVB]] ([[User talk:ValterVB|talk]]) 18:03, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Mushroom|Mushroom]] ([[User talk:Mushroom|talk]]) 22:14, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] ([[User talk:Jarekt|talk]]) 03:06, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 07:13, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Jklamo|Jklamo]] ([[User talk:Jklamo|talk]]) 15:00, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:07, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# '''Note''' - Magnus has ALREADY started work on this, if you would like to help follow the link above for a "pre-alpha" test version to try out with some improvements already... [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 15:33, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Beat Estermann|Beat Estermann]] ([[User talk:Beat Estermann|talk]]) 09:21, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:58, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Mr. Ibrahem|Mr. Ibrahem]] ([[User talk:Mr. Ibrahem|talk]]) 12:28, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Runner1928|Runner1928]] ([[User talk:Runner1928|talk]]) 02:41, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Beta16|β16]] - ([[User talk:Beta16|talk]]) 11:54, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:06, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jianhui67|'''Jianhui67]] [[User talk:Jianhui67|'''talk''']]★[[Special:Contributions/Jianhui67|'''contribs''']] 11:25, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

== Improved watchlist integration ==

* '''Problem''': [[d:WD:DEVPLAN#Improved watchlist integration]]: for sake of verifiability and personalised control of recent changes on Wikipedia, the Wikipedia preferences to show Wikidata edits [[w:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist|in the watchlist]] and [[w:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rc|in the recent changes]] should allow the user to better choose what s/he wants, like showing only the Wikidata changes actually displayed in the watched articles. Verifiability and control in Wikipedia of what is displayed from Wikidata [[w:fr:Discussion Projet:Wikidata/Archive 2#Visibilité des modifications de Wikidata dans l'historique des modifications d'une page Wikipédia|has appeared long ago]] as an important question on the French Wikipedia, and has often been the proposed solution answering doubts and controversies about Wikidata data. [[w:de:Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder/Nutzung von Daten aus Wikidata im ANR|A RfC on the German Wikipedia]] has decided for sake of verifiability to display only Wikidata data with a real source, and in return did not demand a better control of Wikidata data eg. in watchlist; then the corresponding RfC on the French Wikipedia [[w:fr:Discussion Wikipédia:Prise de décision/Utilisation des données Wikidata dans les articles/Archives#Exiger avant d'afficher les données Wikidata leur meilleur contrôle sur Wikipédia (proposition 3.4)|did not include the question of a better control]] and [[w:fr:Wikipédia:Prise de décision/Utilisation des données Wikidata dans les articles/étape 2#Proposition 1|rejected displaying only sourced data]], making the question of Wikidata verifiability on Wikipedia all the more high-priority.

* '''Who would benefit''': People who want to see in their watchlist or in recent changes what happens in the Wikipedia articles including what is displayed using Wikidata.

* '''Proposed solution''': See the Phabricator ticket, [[d:Wikidata:Watchlist integration improvement input|the user and dev ideas]] on Wikidata, and on the French Wikipedia the gadget [[:fr:User:H4stings/wef-watchlist.js]] ([[:fr:Wikipédia:Le Bistro/2 juin 2016#Intégration de la liste de suivi Wikidata dans celle de Wikipédia|described here]] in French, adapted from the Russian gadget [[:ru:MediaWiki:Gadget-wefwatchlist.js]]) by [[User:H4stings]], which still needs improvements since it needs a publicly shown copy (or partial copy) of the watchlist and it works only with changes grouped by page in [[w:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rc|the preferences]].

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T90435]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 09:40, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Improved watchlist integration/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
Good idea - One of the main criticism again WD use in WP is the difficulty to follow change in WD items affecting display of data in WP. An integration of watchlists is necessary. [[User:Snipre|Snipre]] ([[User talk:Snipre|talk]]) 08:42, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
* {{ping|Oliv0}} [[phab:T90435]] has a huge list of subtasks. Which of those would you most want us to focus on? [[User:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|Ryan Kaldari (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|talk]]) 00:25, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
*:I have put focus above on the first point of the description of [[phab:T90435]]: "avoid showing changes to connected item(s) that do not affect the local page (labels in other languages, etc)". Among the long list of technical tasks attached, most are less important points like appearance, but some may indeed be necessary technicalities for a better choice of the Wikidata edits displayed in the watchlist. At first sight [[phab:T90436]] "Improve usage tracking granularity to avoid irrelevant changes showing in the watchlist" is the task that I would most like devs to focus on. [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 08:01, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
* Probably this has already been discussed, yet I'd like to insist on one point : I'm scared at the huge facility for vandalism on Wikidata, even if most vandals have not yet discovered it. Any improvement that would allow contributors to get awared of Wikidata-driven changes on pages they watch is highly wellcome. --[[User:Ariel Provost|Ariel Provost]] ([[User talk:Ariel Provost|talk]]) 07:50, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
I have about {{formatnum:10000}} pages on my watchlist. I tried for about one year to include Wikidata in it, but I have thrown in the towel : there was too much unrelated elements in my watchlist. The main problem is that the inclusion of Wikidata changes in my watchlist included changes not only about the linked element, but also about ''the properties of the followed element''. As a result, you see the changes of that property for a lot of pages of your watchlist who include it. This flooding is bad. It make my watchlist ineffective by exploding it and drowning my attention (Ça explose systématiquement la limite de changements affichables de ma liste de suivi et noie les changements à surveiller parmi des changements non pertinents. La raison d'être de ma liste de suivi est conséquemment totalement évacuée.)[[:fr:Discussion utilisateur:Simon Villeneuve|Simon Villeneuve]] 12:09, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Improved watchlist integration ===
# {{support}} [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 22:18, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} --[[User:YMS|YMS]] ([[User talk:YMS|talk]]) 16:22, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Trizek|Trizek]] [[:fr:User talk:Trizek|from FR]] 19:57, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:32, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} -- [[User:Ariel Provost|Ariel Provost]] ([[User talk:Ariel Provost|talk]]) 07:50, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} -- [[User:AvatarFR|AvatarFR]] ([[User talk:AvatarFR|talk]]) 09:39, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} Absolutely necessary for the watchlist grouped. --[[User:Tractopelle-jaune|Tractopelle-jaune]] ([[User talk:Tractopelle-jaune|talk]]) 11:05, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{S}} [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 11:21, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 04:00, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 07:36, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Cbyd|Cbyd]] ([[User talk:Cbyd|talk]]) 12:24, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. --[[Utilisateur:Julien1978|Julien1978]] [[User talk:Julien1978|(d.)]] 12:10, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[:fr:Discussion utilisateur:Simon Villeneuve|Simon Villeneuve]] 12:14, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:MGChecker|MGChecker]] ([[User talk:MGChecker|talk]]) 13:17, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:By erdo can|''By erdo can'']] • [[User talk:By erdo can|TLK]] 17:02, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:06, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jianhui67|'''Jianhui67]] [[User talk:Jianhui67|'''talk''']]★[[Special:Contributions/Jianhui67|'''contribs''']] 11:25, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

== Keep Wikidata in sync with external databases ==

* '''Problem''': Importing data with a one-time procedure is good, but we should think about what happens afterwards: we have to keep the data in sync. Many people import from external information sources (Examples: museum web page listing the birth/death of Sri Lanka singers, foreign affairs website listing Luxemburg's embassies, etc) using a self-made combination of scripts+spreadsheets+copy/pasting, then input the results in QuickStatements or similar APIs. Then they forget about it, the scripts stay on their own computers and eventually get deleted, and the next person who wants to update the info from the same website has to start from scratch, and figure out what items have to be created and what items have to be updated and how.

* '''Who would benefit''': People who import specialized datasets into Wikidata

* '''Proposed solution''': Let's have a platform that facilitates reuse and keeps the data in sync. Rationalize the process, make it less error-prone, more efficient, and more collaborative, by having a Git-backed webapp where people can easily:
**Propose a new import script (including metadata about copyright) via a pull request. An import script scrapes information from some website and generates a QuickStatements file.
**Run an existing import script, potentially with a preview screen to check that data has been correctly extracted before injecting it into Wikidata.
**Metadata is kept about when the data was last synchronized, and when each data element has been updated last, both on the external side and on the Wikidata side.
**Metadata is kept about exceptions (cases where the external database is wrong, for instance).

All of these modules (except the import scripts) would be the same for all databases, which would help a lot in factorizing efforts, avoiding traps, making sync efficient, preventing contributors from overwriting each other endlessly.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 05:03, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Keep Wikidata in sync with external databases/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

* I wonder how many people doing this sort of updating are doing it from a system that supports the [[en:Protocol for Metadata Harvesting|Protocol for Metadata Harvesting]]? That's one common system of regularly pulling in metadata. Would be a great GLAM selling point if we could automate this sort of thing. It would also be easier than supporting ad-hoc scripting… :) [[User:Samwilson|Sam]] [[User talk:Samwilson|Wilson]] 06:20, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
::I love OAI-PMH, and it is unfortunate that most external database do not implement it. Most databases are very low-tech: HTML bullet lists, CSV file on an FTP server, etc. As an example, emergency evacuation centers in Japan are defined by the government in data tables in PDF files linked from its homepage and updated once in a while. [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 07:54, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Very true. Still, it would be extremely useful if we would adopt existing, open standards ourselves, even if not many websites support this (yet). Our adoption might be a catalyst/encouragement for others to adopt it too. [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 20:18, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
::::I reckon working with open standards is a good thing, and it's also a lot easier than supporting multiple poorly-defined (or web-scraped) interfaces. :-) I'd rather help GLAMs use e.g. [https://www.accesstomemory.org/en/ AtoM] than build a tool that only works for one project. No, I mean ''firstly'', actually: that we support open standards first and ''then'' move on to other set-ups. [[User:Samwilson|Sam]] [[User talk:Samwilson|Wilson]] 05:26, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
* Your proposal sounds like a Wikidata-specific reimplementation of tools such as import.io, scraperwiki, parsehub and whatnot? I like the idea. – [[User:Jberkel|Jberkel]] ([[User talk:Jberkel|talk]]) 11:20, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
::Yes, such tools are a good image for the extraction part, though I guess many people will just write their own scripts. A problem with the tools you mentioned is that they cost money. Cheers! [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 03:59, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Keep Wikidata in sync with external databases ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:19, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- it would be really good to have a backlog tool, that notes that the source for a particular data point has changed the data -- this would also be really important for [[commons:Commons:Structured Commons]], [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:08, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:MichaelMaggs|MichaelMaggs]] ([[User talk:MichaelMaggs|talk]]) 20:29, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} JSONstat for statistics! — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 01:59, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Crucial functionality to keep Wikidata alive, healthy and kicking. [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 15:34, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} this is a great idea though the proposal is not really detailed enough to say how it would work in practice. But something like this is needed. Don't forget Mix n Match as an import/sync tool also... [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 17:41, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Mushroom|Mushroom]] ([[User talk:Mushroom|talk]]) 22:15, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} It would be also nice to keep it in synch with other Wiki projects. For example there are several properties listing pages on commons which are not altered when pages are deleted or renamed. --[[User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] ([[User talk:Jarekt|talk]]) 03:10, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 07:13, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Important functionality to make Wikidata scale in the long term and play its role of a big data hub connecting many other databases. --[[User:Beat Estermann|Beat Estermann]] ([[User talk:Beat Estermann|talk]]) 09:10, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 11:16, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jsamwrites|Jsamwrites]] ([[User talk:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 18:35, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]] ([[User talk:Mike Peel|talk]]) 22:35, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 04:02, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 07:39, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Sabas88|Sabas88]] ([[User talk:Sabas88|talk]]) 11:07, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Strakhov|Strakhov]] ([[User talk:Strakhov|talk]]) 16:21, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Mike Linksvayer|Mike Linksvayer]] ([[User talk:Mike Linksvayer|talk]]) 05:00, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:By erdo can|''By erdo can'']] • [[User talk:By erdo can|TLK]] 17:02, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Runner1928|Runner1928]] ([[User talk:Runner1928|talk]]) 02:41, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:HHill|HHill]] ([[User talk:HHill|talk]]) 10:58, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Beta16|β16]] - ([[User talk:Beta16|talk]]) 11:55, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:07, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|Richard Nevell (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|talk]]) 11:04, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Pabouk|Pabouk]] ([[User talk:Pabouk|talk]]) 13:11, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Afernand74|Afernand74]] ([[User talk:Afernand74|talk]]) 09:22, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jianhui67|'''Jianhui67]] [[User talk:Jianhui67|'''talk''']]★[[Special:Contributions/Jianhui67|'''contribs''']] 11:26, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} This one's definitely needed. --[[User:Fixer88|Fixer88]] ([[User talk:Fixer88|talk]]) 20:57, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 04:48, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Let Wikidata be more useful for Big Data ==

* '''Problem''': Queries on the [https://query.wikidata.org/ WikiData Query Service] can provide great insights, but if you try to retrieve too much data, or try to do too much with it, you get a "Query timeout limit reached" error and no data returned (especially with graphs).

* '''Who would benefit''': People who want to actually use the data, not just store it. People who can't write super-efficient code (like me).

* '''Proposed solution''': Allow longer timeouts. Show partial results. Guide the user as to why it timed out. Which part of the query code was expensive/took the longest? Be more user friendly? (the example queries are great, the manual is OK, but it is so hard to learn how to write your own queries, but that's another issue).

* '''More comments''': I assume that it may be server load related? Can it be dynamic? Can users be allocated a amount of server time before being limited? Is the query service used that often that it needs to be limited? Or am I just writing really bad code? (highly likely as I'm not a trained coder and am just copying/modifying other examples, but you shouldn't be forcing everyone who wants to try to use WikiData to be a master coder)

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:The-Pope|The-Pope]] ([[User talk:The-Pope|talk]]) 16:11, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Let Wikidata be more useful for Big Data/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
Given that server time isn't free it might be worthwhile to sell subscription to the query tool that allow for much longer timeouts. [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 10:12, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
:Indeed. Companies willing to use Wikidata for critical applications would probably be willing to pay to get better [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service-level_agreement SLA]. [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 07:49, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
*A captcha for longer timeouts? --[[User:Jura1|Jura1]] ([[User talk:Jura1|talk]]) 15:57, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
* {{ping|Smalyshev (WMF)}} Any thoughts on this? Is there anything we could do here besides just buying more hardware? [[User:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|Ryan Kaldari (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|talk]]) 00:14, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Another solution could be some authentication and allowing higher limits just to particular users. It could be admins in any wiki, users with more than N edits without bot flag (or on contrary with bot flag), or users who will get personal access green light by some request for permission page. --[[User:Base|Base]] ([[User talk:Base|talk]]) 14:57, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Let WikiData be more useful for Big Data ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:19, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# '''Strong''' {{support}} --[[User:Base|Base]] ([[User talk:Base|talk]]) 14:46, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 15:35, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} --[[User:YMS|YMS]] ([[User talk:YMS|talk]]) 16:22, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Mushroom|Mushroom]] ([[User talk:Mushroom|talk]]) 22:15, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} I have only wrote one or two Wikidata queries and spend most of my time trying to decipher why it is timing out. Got it to work but never figure out why was it slow. Some postmortem way to profile the query would be great. --[[User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] ([[User talk:Jarekt|talk]]) 03:16, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Jklamo|Jklamo]] ([[User talk:Jklamo|talk]]) 15:01, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Several avenues to achieve this should be explored. --[[User:Beat Estermann|Beat Estermann]] ([[User talk:Beat Estermann|talk]]) 09:11, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 04:02, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:08, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Nev1|Nev1]] ([[User talk:Nev1|talk]]) 11:06, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:M11rtinb|M11rtinb]] ([[User talk:M11rtinb|talk]]) 16:16, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Fixer88|Fixer88]] ([[User talk:Fixer88|talk]]) 20:57, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Make search suggestions work for pages outside the main namespace ==

* '''Problem''': The search suggestions box does not give suggestions for pages outside the main namespace. This makes it difficult to find other pages than items.

* '''Who would benefit''': All users.

* '''Proposed solution''': (by user Beta16)
<blockquote>A possible solution can be to add a 'hamburger menu' (or other of similar) next to the search box. When open, this new menu will show two options (radio button: only one can be selected):
*Search only among Wikidata items
*Search in non-main namespaces
The first choice is the default selected.</blockquote>

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[:phab:T48251]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:XXN|XXN]] ([[User talk:XXN|talk]]) 14:07, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Make search suggestions work for pages outside the main namespace/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*There was a gadget that used to work quite well. I have no idea why the search was made so complicated. [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 08:38, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
*Yes. Not being able to find existing properties is the main inconvenience. --[[User:Jura1|Jura1]] ([[User talk:Jura1|talk]]) 20:35, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
* {{ping|XXN}} One reason that suggestions are limited to mainspace is that there are lots of pages there with labels that begin with namespace names. So, for example, if you want to quickly jump to Help:Contents, the search suggestion would have to present both the [[wikidata:Help:Contents|Wikidata help page]] and the [[wikidata:Q914807|Q914807 item]] that represents the ''concept'' of a MediaWiki help page. Whereas on a 'normal' wiki, it isn't possible to have such duplication of page titles. I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement search suggestions across all namespaces, but would a worthwhile minimal version of this proposal be to just enable additional search suggestions in the 'Property' namespace? There would be no name collisions then. —[[User:SWilson (WMF)|SWilson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:SWilson (WMF)|talk]]) 06:00, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
** It can be solved with someone spending some time on it and thinking how to visually show the differences. I do want it solved but we've not been able to spend time on it yet. --[[User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)]] ([[User talk:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|talk]]) 08:13, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Make search suggestions work for pages outside the main namespace ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:19, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}-- [[User:Gareth|Gareth]] ([[User talk:Gareth|talk]]) 11:58, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}}, I think it should not be too hard to implement. --[[User:Stryn|Stryn]] ([[User talk:Stryn|talk]]) 12:50, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Micru|Micru]] ([[User talk:Micru|talk]]) 13:29, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:MaxSem|Max Semenik]] ([[User talk:MaxSem|talk]]) 20:23, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} This has been annoying me since I became active on Wikidata. [[User:Matěj Suchánek|Matěj Suchánek]] ([[User talk:Matěj Suchánek|talk]]) 21:50, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 22:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Mikey641|Mikey641]] ([[User talk:Mikey641|talk]]) 18:22, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Mushroom|Mushroom]] ([[User talk:Mushroom|talk]]) 22:16, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Jc3s5h|Jc3s5h]] ([[User talk:Jc3s5h|talk]]) 23:33, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Jklamo|Jklamo]] ([[User talk:Jklamo|talk]]) 15:02, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:AmaryllisGardener|'''Amaryllis''''''Gardener''']] [[User talk:AmaryllisGardener|'''talk''']] 19:00, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 00:26, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Orgio89|Orgio89]] ([[User talk:Orgio89|talk]]) 02:34, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:MGChecker|MGChecker]] ([[User talk:MGChecker|talk]]) 13:17, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:T.seppelt|T.seppelt]] ([[User talk:T.seppelt|talk]]) 16:07, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Runner1928|Runner1928]] ([[User talk:Runner1928|talk]]) 02:42, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} of course :) --[[User:Beta16|β16]] - ([[User talk:Beta16|talk]]) 11:58, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:08, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|Richard Nevell (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|talk]]) 11:10, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jianhui67|'''Jianhui67]] [[User talk:Jianhui67|'''talk''']]★[[Special:Contributions/Jianhui67|'''contribs''']] 11:26, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:FocalPoint|FocalPoint]] ([[User talk:FocalPoint|talk]]) 21:57, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

== Making Wikidata editable for human beings ==

* '''Problem''': Editing in Wikidata is much different from editing Wikipedia, as the user interface is a wall which seperates the editor from the data, and, depending on individual settings, hides some of the data within an item. So editing takes much time, is difficult to learn, and reverting vandalism is nearly impossible.

* '''Who would benefit''': Every editor who is not a bot, but a human being.

* '''Proposed solution''': The whole data have to be transferred into a transparent format, so that every item consists of a text file like Wikipedia articles do. When saving an edit, an automatic syntax check has to be made, which gives hints, for example, where brackets are missing.

Interwiki links should look like they were on wikipedia, for example:<poem><nowiki>
[[de:P. Shiv Shankar]]
[[en:P. Shiv Shankar]]
[[ml:പി. ശിവശങ്കർ]]
</nowiki></poem>
Statements should be made within 2 different kinds of templates: Fix templates in which a fixed number of lines can be filled in or left blank, but must not be deleted:<poem><nowiki>
{{Template:Person
|name = Punjala Shiv Shankar
|birth_date = 1929.08.10
|death_date =
|sex = male
}}
</nowiki></poem>
open templates, with a flexible number of lines, could work like:<poem><nowiki>
{{Template political function
|Q8497090 Governor of Kerala = 1995.11.12 to 1996.05.01
|Q8497300 Governor of Sikkim = 1994.09.21 to 1995.11.11
}}
</nowiki></poem>

* '''More comments''': This would solve (16.) [[#Easily duplicate parts of an item]] and (17.) [[#Copy/paste statements of an item]], and make it easier to find a solution for (9.) [[#Wikidata integration in Wikipedia (and other projects)]], (13.) [[#Be able to reuse references in WikiData]], and (18.) [[#View two items at the same time]].

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Aspiriniks|Aspiriniks]] ([[User talk:Aspiriniks|talk]]) 20:24, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Making Wikidata editable for human beings/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* I like the idea given that it would make it easier to automate a lot of editing tasks. [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 22:26, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
* As an advocate of data literacy I'd like to stress that teaching wikidata is like teaching a almost totally new wiki, and that's boring, but once they've learned people are much more self-sufficient than on a local wikipedia. This is what has happened so far in my experience with it-N users... If they want to learn, they learn much faster than on their local wikipedia, complexity is not so big.. Approx. 10% of them enjoy the new platform, and they do in the end a terrific job. The linear (sometimes simple) tasks of wikidata can be handled in the end by a limited but motivated workforce on their area of interest (my test was and is done on local geography items, for example). That's my experience. There are also smaller improvements that might help in any case. I would suggest a real discussion about wikidata and "wikidata-newbies", some sort of survey during the following year, and than based on the feedback decide if the most urgent request is a new type of interface or some other type of approach (targeting potentially motivated new editors I'm sure it's possible too). Just to be clear: I am not again this proposal, on the contrary, but I would really like to see some accurate planning here. Wikidata has a strong impact on many local wiki, we have to be cautious and use accurate method when possible, IMHO, or we'll never build a good (namely balanced) community, in the end.Also, the dismantling of the human-geared autopatrolled flag on wikidata was IMHO a mistake in this early years, it should have helped to filter users on the long term in a much more effective way, and correct critical behaviors in a more targeted way too. --[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 04:47, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
** Maybe it could be possible to make both modes of editing available once the data have been transferred into a text file, so that those who like the user interface still can use it? This could also be useful for those who use the user interface in a non-latin script (Arabic, Korean, Chinese...) and would have difficulties editing a text file which would be in English. Of course, if this proposal becomes accepted, there should be a broad discussion about how the syntax of the text file should be, to make it optimally readable and editable for human beings and also for bots. -- [[User:Aspiriniks|Aspiriniks]] ([[User talk:Aspiriniks|talk]]) 08:17, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::[[User:Aspiriniks|Aspiriniks]] have you seen the proposal about a better integration with local project (sort of a VE for wikidata from local platform, if I remember correctly)? It's called ''Wikidata integration in Wikipedia (and other projects)''--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 11:51, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Now Wikidata is almost uneditable from any not very great comptuter. All those Javascripts needed to edit it consume so many resources that even my old 4Gb RAM laptop struggles, something like my university library 512Mb RAM Windows XP PCs are just not made to work with it. Some textual mode, though the solution is strange but deserves to be considered seriously, would help the problem and enable editing from any device. --[[User:Base|Base]] ([[User talk:Base|talk]]) 15:08, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Making Wikidata editable for human beings ===
# {{Oppose}} I really don't undestand what roadblocks prevent "human beings" from editing Wikidata. Showing its data in a wikitext-like format would be just a step backwards. [[User:Matěj Suchánek|Matěj Suchánek]] ([[User talk:Matěj Suchánek|talk]]) 17:06, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} I think that wikidata is really nice to use --[[User:Mikey641|Mikey641]] ([[User talk:Mikey641|talk]]) 18:24, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} the way this is presented. Doing Wikidata in wikitext is a bad idea. I support making it more easy and intuitive in general, but this is the wrong way to go about it. --''[[User:Telaneo|Telaneo]]'' ([[User talk:Telaneo|User talk page]]) 22:03, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} In the background, wikidata data is just JSON. Having a converter from JSON to Wikidata is feasible, but the other way around would be a nightmare.--[[User:Strainu|Strainu]] ([[User talk:Strainu|talk]]) 10:01, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} Of course there are lots of people who feel confused and worried about Wikidata (this also happened when Wikimedia Commons was introduced). In order to avoid having messes that need to be cleaned up later, I oppose offloading any editing of Wikidata to Wikipedia projects. I find it upsetting that all illustrators of non-English Wikipedia articles *must* upload to Commons (often making big messes in the beginning), but I agree that it's easier to find people to clean up those Commons messes rather than have separate unconnected image repositories. The same is true for metadata on Wikidata. [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 10:31, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} Make a thorough analysis first what the problem is really about; experiment with different solutions to solving/diminishing the problem. I don't think the suggested solution would lead us in the right direction. --[[User:Beat Estermann|Beat Estermann]] ([[User talk:Beat Estermann|talk]]) 09:15, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:05, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}} I was surprised to read this proposal! I think Wikidata is very easy to edit by hand (and I'm a human...) --[[User:Egon Willighagen|Egon Willighagen]] ([[User talk:Egon Willighagen|talk]]) 07:09, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}} It's true that editing Wikidata it's much different from editing Wikipedia, but it's very easy to learn and it's very intuitive. I think it's much easy like it's now that if it was like editing a text file. --[[User:Jordi G|Jordi G]] ([[User talk:Jordi G|talk]]) 09:02, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}} editing Wikidata is easier than editing wikitext. [[User:Multichill|Multichill]] ([[User talk:Multichill|talk]]) 14:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} As stated above, the possibility to use the user interface would not be abolished, but an additional possibility would be created. Of course, wikidata is easy to learn, but the operator convenience is still extremely bad and there simply is no necessity to learn operating this user interface, when editing in a wikitext is much faster and easier for those who learned that. -- [[User:Aspiriniks|Aspiriniks]] ([[User talk:Aspiriniks|talk]]) 09:05, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Marcus Cyron|Marcus Cyron]] ([[User talk:Marcus Cyron|talk]]) 12:04, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} -- [[User:T.seppelt|T.seppelt]] ([[User talk:T.seppelt|talk]]) 16:09, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 04:44, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{o}} A complete step backwards. Making things more like the typical wiki interface will absolutely not make it easier for new people to edit data. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 05:12, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} If this were to be implemented as suggested, there would now be several methods of e.g. adding a birthday to an item. Not only is this confusing, but how should the Wikidata software know how to generate the "Wikitext" from the database? Which "template" would be used as the default?--[[User:Cirdan|Cirdan]] ([[User talk:Cirdan|talk]]) 19:02, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

== Mobile UI for Wikidata ==

* '''Problem''': WIkidata is a pain to use on mobile

* '''Who would benefit''': Editors of Wikidata using a mobile interface; anyone benefitting from the data they entered

* '''Proposed solution''': Improve the editing so it actually works on mobile

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Denny|denny]] ([[User talk:Denny|talk]]) 18:13, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Mobile UI for Wikidata/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
:* I think Wikidata is the most suitable project to be on mobile. It can be easily edited as one does not need to write long sentences. It can be big push for it. I also propose a standalone app for it too.-[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil Shah]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 02:07, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
* I'd also would love to see more love for mobile —[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 12:43, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
* +1, I would love to be able to edit statements from mobile browsers [[User:JnRouvignac|JnRouvignac]] ([[User talk:JnRouvignac|talk]]) 22:53, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
* --[[User:Tobias1984|Tobias1984]] ([[User talk:Tobias1984|talk]]) 13:08, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
* Good idea, I find this interface problematic too. [[:User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic london]] [[:User_talk:Fayenatic_london|(talk)]] 22:32, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
* I am waiting for mobile interface for long time.--[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil Shah]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 12:06, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
* Do you envision a "consuming" aspect of a Wikidata mobile app as well? It would be great if certain data items could be synced automatically to a mobile app (be it native or HTML5+local storage), to be used when offline. – [[User:Jberkel|Jberkel]] ([[User talk:Jberkel|talk]]) 11:05, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
* yay support it looks good. [[User:Murbaut|Murbaut]] ([[User talk:Murbaut|talk]]) 11:36, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
* Good idea - a Wikidata app. [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 00:37, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Mobile UI for Wikidata ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Gareth|Gareth]] ([[User talk:Gareth|talk]]) 12:00, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:09, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Micru|Micru]] ([[User talk:Micru|talk]]) 16:07, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 22:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} though I am not using mobile versions of ''any'' other site --[[User:YMS|YMS]] ([[User talk:YMS|talk]]) 16:23, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:Matěj Suchánek|Matěj Suchánek]] ([[User talk:Matěj Suchánek|talk]]) 17:05, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Mikey641|Mikey641]] ([[User talk:Mikey641|talk]]) 18:24, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Mushroom|Mushroom]] ([[User talk:Mushroom|talk]]) 22:06, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:AmaryllisGardener|'''Amaryllis''''''Gardener''']] [[User talk:AmaryllisGardener|'''talk''']] 19:01, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Wikidata is *the* most suitable Wikimedia project for editing on a mobile, making this easier to do makes complete sense. Thanks. [[User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]] ([[User talk:Mike Peel|talk]]) 22:22, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} – [[:User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic london]] [[:User_talk:Fayenatic_london|(talk)]] 22:43, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 22:57, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 00:27, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:05, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Adert|Adert]] ([[User talk:Adert|talk]]) 22:45, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|"?!"]] 13:40, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:T.seppelt|T.seppelt]] ([[User talk:T.seppelt|talk]]) 16:09, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Runner1928|Runner1928]] ([[User talk:Runner1928|talk]]) 02:43, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:HHill|HHill]] ([[User talk:HHill|talk]]) 10:59, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Almondega|Almondega]] ([[User talk:Almondega|talk]]) 11:11, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|Richard Nevell (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|talk]]) 11:13, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} '''★ [[User:Airon90|→ A]][[Special:Contributions/Airon90|ir]][[User talk:Airon90|on 90]]''' 09:28, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jianhui67|'''Jianhui67]] [[User talk:Jianhui67|'''talk''']]★[[Special:Contributions/Jianhui67|'''contribs''']] 11:27, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:M11rtinb|M11rtinb]] ([[User talk:M11rtinb|talk]]) 16:19, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Barcex|Barcex]] ([[User talk:Barcex|talk]]) 19:46, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== More database functions: i.e. WP-Categories as Select-Statements ==

* '''Problem''': There is a lot of manual and erratic editing on categories in the interwikis. Why do we have wikidata? Almost all of the content referenced to categories could be generated from wikidata properties. In a database-oriented manner this would be a simple select-statement. I do not know how the wikidata attributes are saved on the servers but it would be quite dumb not to store them in a relational database approach. I do not believe that there should be many technical obstacles. In opposite it seems that there is a lot of wikidata properties and content generated from manually edited categories. Is there a citation needed to edit categories? This approach is wrong. It should be the other way around.

* '''Who would benefit''': Editors in the interwikis: Better handling of categories through standard selections from wikidata. Data storage: Most of the Wikidata properties and wikipedia categories are the same information in a different way. So information is stored redundantly and inconsistently.

* '''Proposed solution''': Replace this rattail of categories in articles with generated properties from wikidata. Replace the category lemmata with select-statements from the wikidata database.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Hoenk|Hoenk]] ([[User talk:Hoenk|talk]]) 12:13, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/More database functions: i.e. WP-Categories as Select-Statements/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
: It sounds like you are not familiar with existing tools that already essentially do what you are asking? For example [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Wikidata_list Template:Wikidata list] is available in English wikipedia. [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 14:57, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
* You can use statements on Wikidata to generate categories in LUA. Several Wikipedias already do that. No additional development is needed. --[[User:Jura1|Jura1]] ([[User talk:Jura1|talk]]) 10:03, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
* It is possible to automate some categories, but not all, and it is not clear which one can be automated. Categories in Wikipedia follow mostly theme, and it is difficult to automate creation of them. Those that follow topic can sometimes be automated. It is although easier to automate maintenance of existing categories than automate creation of them, and that does not imply any specific interpretation of the content. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 10:49, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting -More database functions ===
# {{o}} You have clearly not tried to synchronize categories across language projects before. [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 10:34, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

== Move lexicon-like external sites as wd-statements, and add them back under section headers ==

* '''Problem''': Some links to external sites are links to content organized as a lexicon, like links to [[w:Encyclopedia Brittanica]]. Such links should be on Wikidata, and inserted as necessary under "External links". Without some additional magic we will only replace one nightmare with another, that is maintenance of the template itself.

* '''Who would benefit''': Sites organized around lexicon-like structures.

* '''Proposed solution''': Create a gadget to move external links to Wikidata, it is already a property [[d:Property:P1343|described by source]] for this purpose, and then add the statements back by using system messages attached to the section headers. Let those messages contain wikitext with calls to templates and/or modules so the statements to such lexicon-like sites can be added back automatically.

* '''More comments''': This gadget should be on the client sites, not on the repo, even if the links are moved to the repo. It will be a bit like quick statements, but focused on a single core function.
:If used without any restrictions it can make it difficult to track why something shows up on a page, especially in raw wikitext. This can be avoided by limiting the insertion points to section headers and a few other markers.
:Somehow the links should be limited to avoid creating link farms.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 14:17, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Move lexicon-like external sites as wd-statements, and add them back under section headers/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* {{ping|Jeblad}} - It sounds like this proposal would not be that useful without [[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous#Feature for addition of common templates|Feature for addition of common templates]]. Rather than having people vote on the 2 proposals separately, what would you think about combining them into 1 proposal? [[User:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|Ryan Kaldari (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|talk]]) 00:41, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

::Good point. The template insertion mechanism is important to this proposal, but it is useful on its own. The template insertion proposal became much to technical, so it could be better to add it here. Or even rewrite the proposal. I'll take a look tomorrow. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 03:50, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

:::Functionality to add the links back can generalized, although it is not necessary for this proposal. A proposal more specific to this kind of functionality is described on [[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Miscellaneous#Feature for addition of common templates]]. Whats described here does only need injection of system messages to work, not the more general injection by regex patterns. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 11:00, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
:::This is somewhat related to [[phab:T138652|Add a new MediaWiki system message at the footer of content pages]]. — ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 15:37, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
: Or, just get rid of external links, since if they're useful they should be references in the article anyway! Thanks. [[User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]] ([[User talk:Mike Peel|talk]]) 22:24, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Move lexicon-like external sites as wd-statements ===

== Primary Sources gadget: important bugs ==

* '''Problem''': The Primary Sources gadget development by Google stopped at some moment, the community lacks the knowledge to fix the current bugs (the backend is C++ for example) or to improve the gadget. It shouldn't also be the most important subject of the development team of Wikidata.

* '''Who would benefit''': editors and users of the data of Wikidata (faster workflow).

* '''Proposed solution''': find experienced developers willing to improve and fix the code of the gadget.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': ''Primary Sources'' section of https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/1278/

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Sjoerddebruin|'''Sjoerd de Bruin''']] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|(talk)]] 12:29, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Primary Sources gadget: important bugs/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
'''Proposal needs improvement:''' {{ping|Sjoerddebruin}} Currently this proposal does not meet the requirements outlined in [[2016 Community Wishlist Survey#What happens during the proposal phase?]], as "Improve and fix" is not specific enough and several different requests (47 different tasks currently, according to the Phabricator link) are squashed into one single proposal. Could you please identify the (maximum three) top problems that you see and split them into separate proposals (as you can hand in up to three proposals for the Community Wishlist)? That would also improve chances that the Community Tech might work on this (as I don't see them fixing all 47 open Phabricator tasks) and would help everybody to understand what ''exactly'' is requested in your proposal when discussing, voting, or working on fixing issues. Thanks in advance! --[[User:AKlapper (WMF)|AKlapper (WMF)]] ([[User talk:AKlapper (WMF)|talk]]) 13:19, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
:Okay, sorry. I think these are the largest issues:
:*Qualifiers and sources are suggested with new statements instead of existing ones, it also doesn't seem to check if a statements already exists ([[phab:T139757]])
:*Some suggestions are unrejectable ([[phab:T147330]])
:*And it would be great if at least the frontend part could be translated ([[phab:T148143]])
:[[User:Sjoerddebruin|'''Sjoerd de Bruin''']] [[User talk:Sjoerddebruin|(talk)]] 14:15, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
::In my opinion the most important task with the Primary Sources tool is stopping the reloading of the page when the user approves claims.
:::(Note: ChristianKl proposed this below at [[#Primary Sources: When a claim from the tool gets approved, the page shouldn't get reloaded]].) [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 00:05, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
::As long as the data sources are mostly in English I don't think translation of the front end should be a priority. A user that can't speak English shouldn't approve claims based on English sources. [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 18:19, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
: FYI: There is an open grant request to work on the Primary Sources Tool issues: [[Grants:IEG/StrepHit: Wikidata Statements Validation via References/Renewal]] --[[User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)]] ([[User talk:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|talk]]) 08:28, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Primary Sources gadget ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 01:25, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Mushroom|Mushroom]] ([[User talk:Mushroom|talk]]) 22:07, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Jklamo|Jklamo]] ([[User talk:Jklamo|talk]]) 15:03, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Nouill|Nouill]] ([[User talk:Nouill|talk]]) 14:23, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

== Primary Sources: When a claim from the tool gets approved, the page shouldn't get reloaded==

* '''Problem''': Currently the page reloads every time a claim from the Primary Source tool get's approved or disapproved.

* '''Who would benefit''':
All users of the Primary Source tool, because editing is easier. All downstream users of Wikidata for domains where the Primary Source tool has data,
because more data would be added.

* '''Proposed solution''':
Don't reload the page when claims get approved or disapproved but simply communicate the information in the background to the server and show the claim on the client side as a normal Wikidata statement.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T148179

* '''Proposer''': [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 17:29, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Primary Sources: When a claim from the tool gets approved, the page shouldn't get reloaded/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

=== Voting - Primary Sources: Don't reload when a claim from the tool gets approved ===
#{{support}} And I could see this for other edits as well, [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:10, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Micru|Micru]] ([[User talk:Micru|talk]]) 16:08, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 01:25, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 16:08, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Mushroom|Mushroom]] ([[User talk:Mushroom|talk]]) 22:08, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Jklamo|Jklamo]] ([[User talk:Jklamo|talk]]) 15:04, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Geraki|'''Geraki''']] [[User_talk:Geraki|T]][//meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=&user=Geraki L] 06:41, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Runner1928|Runner1928]] ([[User talk:Runner1928|talk]]) 02:43, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:09, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Nikosguard|Nikosguard]] ([[User talk:Nikosguard|talk]]) 09:24, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

== Query OpenStreetMap database for Wikidata links for each item ==

* '''Problem''': See [[:d:WD:PFD#P402]] ([[:d:Special:Permalink/406689530#P402|permalink as of 13 November]]) and [[:phab:T145284|discussion at T145284]]. Links from OSM database (which is easily queried) to Wikidata are much more stable than in the other direction.

* '''Who would benefit''': Wikidata and OpenStreetMap editors, plus Wikidata readers who might not otherwise know that this geographical data exists.

* '''Proposed solution''': On every WD item, make a query to the OSM database (there are several different APIs by which this could be done) to see if there are any links to it.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': None yet.

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 10:03, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Query OpenStreetMap database for Wikidata links for each item/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* Pinging {{u|Yurik}}. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 10:03, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
* I believe you {{u|Jc86035}} has the same concerns on this subject as {{u|Susannaanas}}, I see why this could possible be a issue as the existing solution without a identifier in Wikidata decreases the discover-ability. I'm afraid a new database(which would simply be a extract from OSM) is not a solution to this issue. [[User:Abbe98|Abbe98]] ([[User talk:Abbe98|talk]]) 21:11, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
* Yes, I have changed my vote on this topic to focus on the OSM database instead of the Wikidata ID 402, but make sure the geographic data will be as easily queryable as if it was a native Wikidata ID. I would not want to impose the 402 ID database solution to be the selected one to solve the issue. --[[User:Susannaanas|Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas)]] ([[User talk:Susannaanas|talk]]) 07:14, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
* this sounds like a bot request not something for wikimedia developers? [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 15:00, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
** {{ping|ArthurPSmith}} No, not a bot request (automatic display of info based on querying their API), although it would be perfectly fine if it were implemented that way and the Wikidata database was updated whenever the OSM database had a change (and vice versa). [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:12, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
** {{ping|Jc86035}} I don't believe wikidata or any WMF project should be dependent in its UI on some outside project, if that's what you're implying. However, this could be implemented as an optional gadget that does the work via javascript - again probably not something for WMF developers to do. [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 14:48, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
* [https://github.com/Abbe98/wikidata-osm-link Here is a UserScript] which adds a link to the item's corresponding OpenStreetMap element, it will add a link whenever there is a wikidata tag referencing the item's URI over at OpenStreetMap. [[User:Abbe98|Abbe98]] ([[User talk:Abbe98|talk]]) 20:00, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
* WMF is already mantaining a OSM Wikidata extract (the geoshapes service of Kartotherian), so it could build on this to satisfy this proposal. I strongly suggest against mantaining the Wikidata property to link to OSM because OpenStreetMap IDs are not stable (they can change for a given object when someone makes for example a split of a way). --[[User:Sabas88|Sabas88]] ([[User talk:Sabas88|talk]]) 10:48, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Query OpenStreetMap database for Wikidata links for each item ===

== Show only items that are allowed given the constraints of property when the user searches for them ==

* '''Problem''':
When a user adds a new statement and searches for the proper item to link he's shown many items that aren't allowed by the constraints set on the property.
This means it takes more effort to select the right one.

* '''Who would benefit''':
All Wikidata editors. It would also make it easier to become a Wikidata editor

* '''Proposed solution''':
Only items that are allowed given the constraints that are set via statements for the property that's used should be shown in the text based search.
It should still be possible to select items that violate the constrains by entering the ID of the item.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 21:50, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Show only items that are allowed given the constraints of property when the user searches for them/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet
[[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 21:50, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* Good idea! [[User:JnRouvignac|JnRouvignac]] ([[User talk:JnRouvignac|talk]]) 22:54, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
* Much needed! An obvious first step would be to filter out disambiguation pages. [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 15:40, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
* This functionality is offered by the suggestions. However, it can be improved and it also doesn't work for qualifiers. To make the suggestor work for qualifiers currently, you must save the statement and then open the qualifier which will narrow the number of possible choices in the drop-down considerably. [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 15:48, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
:: {{Ping|Jane023}}What exactly do you mean with the suggestions? Those items that are offered without typing anything? [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 13:23, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
:::For example, if I use P217 for "inventory number", I can save that statement. This property is suggested correctly to me after I add P31 instance of "painting". That is correct behavior of the suggestor functionality. The problem with qualifiers is that for this statement, I would prefer to have it qualified with the collection, but the suggestor does not suggest P195 for "collection" unless I first save the P217 statement and open it again to add the qualifier. It should be possible for the suggestor to suggest the P195 qualifier as it is probably the most common qualifier for the P217 statement. [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 10:46, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
* Something like that seems useful.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:31, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
* Instead of restricting only to allowed items, I would rather have them appearing first in the choices. --[[User:Melderick|Melderick]] ([[User talk:Melderick|talk]]) 21:27, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
* I'm not really convinced that our constraint definitions can't be improved and that the universe should be limited by them, but it would help if it was more likely that useful values come first. In any case, I think the situation has much improved some time ago. At some point, one couldn't even get to useful items .. --[[User:Jura1|Jura1]] ([[User talk:Jura1|talk]]) 23:09, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
** I agree with Jura1 here. We should spend time on improving our constraint system and related tools and not move away from one of the fundamental concepts of Wikidata. --[[User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)]] ([[User talk:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|talk]]) 08:30, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
** I'm not proposing creating a hard limit of the universe. It would still be possible to enter items that violate constraints by entering the items ID. In most cases it would just require a conscious choice to violate the constraint. A user would have to specifically search for the item and enter the ID.
:: The effect of this proposal is that *items should follow the constraints* not that *items must follow the constraints*. When constraints are violated, there should the a conscious decision whether this is simply an exception (in that case it's okay to go through the extra effort of searching the ID) or whether the constraint definition should be changed. ::[[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 23:49, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
:*If we would really think that everything goes as far as property usage and property can be used in ways that are very different from the way they were proposed the current proposal system doesn't make sense. This would encourage people to use the property the way it was proposed or alternatively advocate changing the property. [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 16:11, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
*In case the implemented feature is about moving items that match constraints to the top I would also a visual marker for those statements that violate constraints. [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 11:10, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
=== Voting - Show only items that are allowed given the constraints of property ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Gareth|Gareth]] ([[User talk:Gareth|talk]]) 12:03, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 16:09, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} if this is a hard constraint; {{support}} if the matching items are moved to the top of the list but others are also available [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 17:48, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} anything to improve suggestions is welcome. [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 10:48, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# per [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]], {{support}} to prioritize items that are allowed given the constraints, {{oppose}} to hide not allowed completely. --[[User:Jklamo|Jklamo]] ([[User talk:Jklamo|talk]]) 15:09, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} per Arthur. --[[User:AmaryllisGardener|'''Amaryllis''''''Gardener''']] [[User talk:AmaryllisGardener|'''talk''']] 19:03, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#as per ArthurPSmith. {{oppose}} if this is a hard constraint; {{support}} if the matching items are moved to the top of the list but others are also available. --[[User:FocalPoint|FocalPoint]] ([[User talk:FocalPoint|talk]]) 19:41, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:42, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} matching items are moved to the top of the list but others are also available. {{oppose}} to hide others. --[[User:Geraki|'''Geraki''']] [[User_talk:Geraki|T]][//meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=&user=Geraki L] 06:42, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Entbert|Entbert]] ([[User talk:Entbert|talk]]) 15:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:T.seppelt|T.seppelt]] ([[User talk:T.seppelt|talk]]) 16:04, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}-- as others suggested, only to prioritize suggestions by which items are optimal and push to the bottom of suggestions (and maybe mark) those items which violate constraints [[User:Runner1928|Runner1928]] ([[User talk:Runner1928|talk]]) 02:45, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

== Statistics of use of Wikidata's data ==

* '''Problem''': At this moment it is difficult, and probably even quite impossible, to measure the quantitative effect and impact of the work that we, volunteers, do on Wikidata. Where is our data used, re-used? How often is the data viewed - both on Wikimedia projects and externally? We can measure pageviews of Wikipedia articles, to a certain extent views of media files, but we can't measure views and (Wikimedia- or externally originated) pulls and uses of data on Wikidata yet.

* '''Who would benefit''': Everyone in our community probably, especially the Wikidata community, as this would make the impact of our work much more visible, and would also allow us to see where there is still room for improvement. It would be extremely useful for external partners as well. I have worked with several Flemish GLAMs on [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Flemish_art_collections,_Wikidata_and_Linked_Open_Data an import of their collections to Wikidata] and their first wish is to see how often their collections are viewed and re-used from Wikidata.

* '''Proposed solution''': Initiate a project to start measuring the actual use and re-use of data on Wikidata. I can imagine this would be measured by item at least.

* '''More comments''': We discussed this in [https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Training_sessions/Proposals/Wikidata_and_GLAM_intermediate_workshop a Wikidata+GLAM session] at Wikimania 2016. Some basic notes from that discussion can be found [https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Wikidata-GLAM-Wikimania2016 here in this etherpad] (scroll down to the bottom in the pad). When this proposal is endorsed by enough others, I ([[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]])) am very willing to structure this further.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138697 (still empty, more info in etherpad mentioned above)

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 20:16, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Statistics of use of Wikidata's data/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* This is an aspect to fix. Something easy like a link "what uses this" instead of "what links here" would be nice to have. On commons cross-wiki use of a file is easy to get, it should be as easy also for wikidata information.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:12, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
*Unlike its countrparts, Wikidata is used mostly dynamically. Often by apps outside of Wikimedia, which our privacy policy probably forbids us to disclose. So, a good way to show statistics could be "This item has been read 70 times in the last 24 hours". [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 06:00, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
::wait. Are we discussing of a in-wiki reuse or a general reuse? I don't think the proposal was to monitor the second type of reuse, that would be clearly impossible... I think it's about knowing how many templates on local platform uses wikidata information of an item and where, basically.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 08:15, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
:::It is clearly stated in the description: "''both on Wikimedia projects and externally''". Cheers! [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 09:12, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
::::Yes, definitely also external use. I expect we're smart enough to disclose some information about that (numbers, generic categories of types of web services re-using the content...) without violating privacy policies. [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 18:51, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
::::: I really want this kind of data too but the issue isn't that we have the data and do not share it. We don't actually have the data. Anyone can download for example the database dump and use the data without us having any way of knowing this. There is a research project that was trying to make at least some basic guessing and heuristics about it but it isn't even really started yet. --[[User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)]] ([[User talk:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|talk]]) 14:11, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I am surprised the two aspects were united in a single proposal, there are quite different from a wikimedian point of view. I guess I skipped it because I don't even understand how the second request could be possible. You can get some general summary of views and downloads, I guess, but that better be a separate request. And in any case, spending energy to guess it somehow before a easy interface for monitoring cross-wiki use seems excessive at the moment, the first step should be the "crosswiki" reuse. Instead of having people discussing about something that is needed for "wiki management" we end up discussing mainly about the second aspect, that looks like a dead end at the moment.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 08:46, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::: Yes developers can download the whole database and use it locally (just like people can read Wikipedia [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_on_CD/DVD on a DVD] or via the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwix Kiwix] apps), but most apps query the live Wikidata dynamically, so counting queries at query.wikidata.org would provide good-enough statistics. [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 07:42, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
* {{ping|Spinster}} Do you want this proposal to focus on interwiki transclusions of Wikidata items or API/external requests for item data? or both? [[User:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|Ryan Kaldari (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|talk]]) 00:08, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
::Both. They can be split in separate proposals if that makes things clearer. [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 17:02, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Statistics of use of Wikidata's data ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Gareth|Gareth]] ([[User talk:Gareth|talk]]) 12:05, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} as proposer. [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 15:37, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Mikey641|Mikey641]] ([[User talk:Mikey641|talk]]) 18:26, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 10:38, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Yes for better statistics of use for items but also for properties (for example [[d:Template:ExternalUse]] should be updated automatically).--[[User:Jklamo|Jklamo]] ([[User talk:Jklamo|talk]]) 15:17, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:34, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Beat Estermann|Beat Estermann]] ([[User talk:Beat Estermann|talk]]) 09:19, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jsamwrites|Jsamwrites]] ([[User talk:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 18:39, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:AmaryllisGardener|'''Amaryllis''''''Gardener''']] [[User talk:AmaryllisGardener|'''talk''']] 19:03, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:FocalPoint|FocalPoint]] ([[User talk:FocalPoint|talk]]) 20:49, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]] ([[User talk:Mike Peel|talk]]) 22:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 22:57, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:WikedKentaur|WikedKentaur]] ([[User talk:WikedKentaur|talk]]) 23:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#'''Weak''' {{support}} This needs to be done in a way that respects the individual's privacy. [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 00:41, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:43, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Jordi G|Jordi G]] ([[User talk:Jordi G|talk]]) 09:05, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Draceane|Draceane]] ([[User talk:Draceane|talk]]) 11:00, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Adert|Adert]] ([[User talk:Adert|talk]]) 22:44, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Pauljmackay|Pauljmackay]] ([[User talk:Pauljmackay|talk]]) 11:12, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Runner1928|Runner1928]] ([[User talk:Runner1928|talk]]) 02:38, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:10, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Nikosguard|Nikosguard]] ([[User talk:Nikosguard|talk]]) 09:21, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|Richard Nevell (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|talk]]) 11:15, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jianhui67|'''Jianhui67]] [[User talk:Jianhui67|'''talk''']]★[[Special:Contributions/Jianhui67|'''contribs''']] 11:28, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

== Support for Incubator projects ==

* '''Problem''': Currently it is not possible in Wikidata to add sitelinks to pages that belong to language versions which are still in [[Incubator]] (or OldWikisource or BetaWikiversity). This means that editors of these test-projects cannot profit from interwiki links provided by Wikidata and also not from the other data stored on Wikidata.

* '''Who would benefit''': Users who contribute to test-projects on Incubator (OldWS, BetaWV), wanting to start a new language version of one of our projects

* '''Proposed solution''': All language codes permissible for wikimedia projects (ie generally ISO 639-1 and -3) should be available for choosing in the sitelinks sections of Wikidata. When a code is entered of which there is no subdomain (of Wikipedia, Wikivoyage, etc.) yet, the target page should be searched on Incubator. (e.g. Wikipedia sitelinks, code liv, page name X => Search for incubator:Wp/liv/X and allow addition of the link if that page exists). [taken from the bug which I filed]

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[:phabricator:T54971|bug T54971]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:MF-Warburg|MF-W]] 00:39, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Support for Incubator projects/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

* Yes, this is a frequently requested feature which has been "in the queue" for too long already, as far as I am concerned. I would really appreciate implementation. --[[User:Vogone|Vogone]] ([[User talk:Vogone|talk]]) 00:42, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

*This would be useful. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 19:43, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
*{{ping|Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)}} Is there any reason these are currently excluded? [[User:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|Ryan Kaldari (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|talk]]) 23:42, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
** They are excluded because many languages are combined in one wiki. For each item on Wikidata we can only link to one article on a wiki. --[[User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)]] ([[User talk:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|talk]]) 08:11, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
*Fully agreed. [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 00:39, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

*Given that incubator is experimental, I think storage should be done locally, not on Wikidata. --[[User:Jura1|Jura1]] ([[User talk:Jura1|talk]]) 10:04, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
*: Given that incubator aims to provide the exact same user experience as any project with an own domain, integration to Wikidata is pretty crucial to its success. --[[User:Vogone|Vogone]] ([[User talk:Vogone|talk]]) 00:28, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Support for Incubator projects ===
# {{support}} --[[User:MF-Warburg|MF-W]] 14:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Vogone|Vogone]] ([[User talk:Vogone|talk]]) 14:22, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Steinsplitter|Steinsplitter]] ([[User talk:Steinsplitter|talk]]) 15:05, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Wolverène|Wolverène]] 15:18, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 15:23, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Micru|Micru]] ([[User talk:Micru|talk]]) 16:09, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Base|Base]] ([[User talk:Base|talk]]) 16:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:GeekEmad|GeekEmad]] ([[User talk:GeekEmad|talk]]) 18:44, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
#:<s> (was support) --[[User:Ibrahim khashrowdi|Ibrahim khashrowdi]] ([[User talk:Ibrahim khashrowdi|talk]]) 18:52, 28 November 2016 (UTC)</s>
#::For the record, [[User:Ibrahim khashrowdi]] has stated on Incubator that he now opposes, in that he is concerned it will create a disincentive for the Language Committee to move projects out of Incubator. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 17:02, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#:::Which, also for the record, is complete nonsense, as LangCom (rightly) doesn't care about the usability of Incubator. I say this as a LangCom member. --[[User:MF-Warburg|MF-W]] 03:21, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 22:21, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Siri111|Siri111]] ([[User talk:Siri111|talk]]) 23:04, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Yair rand|Yair rand]] ([[User talk:Yair rand|talk]]) 07:02, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Lsanabria|Lsanabria]] ([[User talk:Lsanabria|talk]]) 15:15, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 22:57, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 00:39, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} -[[User:Mh7kJ|Mh7kJ]] ([[User talk:Mh7kJ|talk]]) 01:37, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:44, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} '''[[User:Jmvkrecords|Jmvkrecords]] [[Special:Contributions/Jmvkrecords|⚜]] ([[User Talk:Jmvkrecords|Intra talk]])''' 10:37, 2 December 2016 (UTC).
# {{support}} - [[User:Nikki|Nikki]] ([[User talk:Nikki|talk]]) 18:20, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} This will be very helpful for instances like [[voy:fi:]], which just got imported with thousands of interwiki links which need to be removed as well as a sidebar which links to language editions of Wikipedia. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (ko'''a'''vf)]]❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯ 19:45, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Framawiki|Framawiki]] ([[User talk:Framawiki|talk]]) 20:52, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 23:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Matiia|Matiia]] ([[User talk:Matiia|talk]]) 23:13, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:KPFC|KPFC]] [[User Talk:KPFC|💬]] 23:49, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|"?!"]] 13:32, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:SDKmac|SDKmac]] ([[User talk:SDKmac|talk]]) 13:45, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:XXnickiXx|XXnickiXx]] ([[User talk:XXnickiXx|talk]]) 13:51, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Metrophil|Metrophil]] ([[User talk:Metrophil|talk]]) 13:52, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Tesser4D|Tesser4D]] ([[User talk:Tesser4D|talk]]) 13:54, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Kenny McFly|Kenny McFly]] ([[User talk:Kenny McFly|talk]]) 13:57, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:By erdo can|''By erdo can'']] • [[User talk:By erdo can|TLK]] 17:01, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} -- [[User:Freddy2001|Freddy2001]] [[User talk:Freddy2001|talk]] 18:46, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:DCB|DCB]] ([[User talk:DCB|talk]]) 22:15, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 04:44, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:11, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Would be a very nice feature that would further lower the difference between regular wikis and Incubator test wikis. As long as it implemented properly, i.e. each test wiki on Incubator is treated as a regular project (being able to add the language link xyz which goes to Wx/xyz/Page on Incubator). [[User:SPQRobin|SPQRobin]] ([[User talk:SPQRobin|talk]]) 22:39, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:HakanIST|HakanIST]] ([[User talk:HakanIST|talk]]) 06:38, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Liuxinyu970226|Liuxinyu970226]] ([[User talk:Liuxinyu970226|talk]]) 11:17, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Pabouk|Pabouk]] ([[User talk:Pabouk|talk]]) 13:13, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jianhui67|'''Jianhui67]] [[User talk:Jianhui67|'''talk''']]★[[Special:Contributions/Jianhui67|'''contribs''']] 11:29, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

== Take care of disambiguation items ==

* '''Problem''':
A sizeable part of Wikidata items are merely about disambiguations. Much of their maintenance could be automatize.

* '''Who would benefit''':
Wikidata contributors finding them in other fields

* '''Proposed solution''':
Steps are outlined in the infobox "Points to cover" on the right side at [[d:Wikidata:Bot_requests#Take_care_of_disambiguation_items]]. Copy below (without the lists and queries included there).

<table align="center" class="wikitable">
<tr><th>Points to cover
<tr><td style="width:500px;font-size:smaller">
*1. Complete descriptions with standard text in all languages (already exists)
**1a. add missing descriptions
**1b. normalize descriptions if possible
*2. Merge items with same label in all languages
**List at [[d:User:Pasleim/disambiguationmerge]]
*3. List empty disambiguation items for deletions (items with no sitelinks)
**3a. stop merging them automatically into non-disambiguation items. See [[Phab:T141845]].
**3b. delete anything on [[d:User:ValterVB/Disambiguation No sitelink|Disambiguation item without sitelink]] and/or [[d:Wikidata:Database_reports/to delete/empty_disambiguation_items]], see also: [[d:Wikidata:Project_chat#Wikidata.2C_a_stable_source_for_disambiguation_items.3F]]
*4. Add P31= based on disambiguation categories at Wikidata (partially exists )
*5. List problems, solve some automatically
*6. Undo incorrect merges
**6a. identify by P31 values
*7. Ensure sitelinks are disambiguation pages
**7a. Disconnect sitelinks that are not disambiguation pages from disambiguation item [[phab:T144271]]
**7b. Disconnect sitelinks that are disambiguation pages from items that are not disambiguation items ([https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q12726905&diff=322723005&oldid=220898191 sample])
*8. Process disambiguation categories per wiki for most actions
*9. Process some actions in two steps: analyze what needs to be done then, maybe a week later, re-analyze what needs to be done and do what still needs to done.
*10. Remove description "disambiguation" from items that don't have P31=Q4167410
*11. Delete sitelinks that are redirects to disambiguation pages
</table>

* '''Phabricator tickets''':
*https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139912

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Jura1|Jura1]] ([[User talk:Jura1|talk]]) 20:30, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Take care of disambiguation items/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* Yes it should be. Now that we have wikidata, it would be nice to have some automatic disambiguation page. One aspect is how to include the articles that don't exist yet, as it is impossible to tell to a bot if it is a problem of relevance in one wiki, or they haven't been created yet. But if a wiki is very practical, a simple "show as a red link items that exist in at least n wiki" is IMHO a decent compromise if it removes hours of editing. Many wiki will accept it.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 11:45, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
**Sure, I guess it could be expanded. With the above, I had in mind mainly the Wikidata side. There are now 1 million such items and they tend to get mixed-up with actual content. --[[User:Jura1|Jura1]] ([[User talk:Jura1|talk]]) 21:01, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
*{{ping|Jura1}} Hi, I think this is a duplicate of the more detailed proposal at [[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Bots and gadgets#Import Wikidata text for disambiguation pages|.../Bots and gadgets#Import Wikidata text for disambiguation pages]]. If you agree, please can you merge any extra details, into that proposal, and remove this section? (So that people don't have to vote on the same thing twice). If you disagree, please could you clarify your proposal, with more details and examples from the linked page, so that people voting next week can easily understand the idea without having to read that large discussion? Much thanks. [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 02:14, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
**This proposals is about 1,000,000 Wikidata items like [[d:Q4826629]]. The other proposal seems to be about pages such as [[:en:Automation_(disambiguation)]]. I think ideally, we'd do both, but they can be done independently. Communities benefiting from them aren't the same either. Obviously, doing the Wikidata side first might be an improved basis for Wikipedia. --[[User:Jura1|Jura1]] ([[User talk:Jura1|talk]]) 06:58, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
***We can do better with the Wikidata items, like so [[d:Q4373037]]. [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 12:07, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
=== Voting - Take care of disambiguation items ===
# {{support}} --[[User:YMS|YMS]] ([[User talk:YMS|talk]]) 16:25, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:ValterVB|ValterVB]] ([[User talk:ValterVB|talk]]) 18:02, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} this sounds helpful - however is there anything on here that actually requires any development, or just getting the community to help fix these things (with some bots)? [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 18:48, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} we could put disambiguation pages on steroids. [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 11:07, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Jklamo|Jklamo]] ([[User talk:Jklamo|talk]]) 15:19, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} full automation, unless certain categories of pages will be left alone by bots. I am particularly concerned that #7 would unlink anthroponymy (human name) pages in enwiki, where the main content is a list of people sharing a name. [[:en:MOS:DABNAME]] distinguishes these from disambiguation pages, even in the many cases where there is not also a disambiguation page for the same name/word. However, in many cases, the equivalent pages '''are''' disambiguation pages in other-language wikipedias. – [[:User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic london]] [[:User_talk:Fayenatic_london|(talk)]] 22:58, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Almondega|Almondega]] ([[User talk:Almondega|talk]]) 11:14, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

== View two items at the same time ==

* '''Problem''':
It's hard to copy statements and references from one item to another.

* '''Who would benefit''':
Editors that enter data.

* '''Proposed solution''':
Provide a UI with opens one item on the left side and another on the right side.
Allow dragging statements/references from one item to the other to copy them. Shift+Drag might move statements/references.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 13:18, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/View two items at the same time/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
*This sounds like a good idea. Anything to make it easier to copy statements or references would really be a good thing. – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 08:26, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
*I wrote some code at [[gerrit:241296]] for a tool based on a similar concept; references can still be moved only along with the statements they belong to, the dragging gesture works to move pieces of data (the Ctrl key must be held down to copy them) and overall it doesn't work well but you can find a demo [{{fullurl:toollabs:wikidata-slicer/demo|ids=Q4115189&ids=Q13406268}} here] --[[User:Ricordisamoa|Ricordi]][[User talk:Ricordisamoa|samoa]] 17:54, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
* This is why browsers have tabs, and resizeable windows... Drag-drop sounds like it would be useful, but viewing two items at once on a single page sounds less useful... Thanks. [[User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]] ([[User talk:Mike Peel|talk]]) 22:30, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
::Dragging and dropping between browser windows is likely not possible. Therefore it needs to be in the website UI. [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 17:38, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - View two items at the same time ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} and add possibility to merge them :-) [[User:JAn Dudík|JAn Dudík]] ([[User talk:JAn Dudík|talk]]) 22:21, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 16:12, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} yes [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 11:04, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Yiyi|Yiyi]] ([[User talk:Yiyi|talk]]) 15:51, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|Richard Nevell (WMUK)]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell (WMUK)|talk]]) 11:16, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Tothasze|Tothasze]] ([[User talk:Tothasze|talk]]) 09:35, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

== Ability to edit Wikidata from WP and other projects ==

* '''Problem''': "Wikipedia is the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit". But this is true only if they are ''able to do it''. Since we use Wikidata in Wikipedia, we have more and more articles with ''empty'' infoboxes or other similar templates, or hard-to-understand code inserted into the wikitext. If somebody tries to change this information (data) in the article, they realize that it is not possible, neither in wikitext editor nor using Visual Editor. Even many experienced editors have stopped using Wikipedia since they are not able to make the changes they wanted, and felt stupid / too old for it, and they don't want to learn another project (developed for rather technophiles). I've led some edit-a-thons recently and it is hard to explain for newbies, that editing Wikipedia is very easy, ''but only if you don't want to change the part of the article that's imported from Wikidata''. I know that there is a link in the left side to the Wikidata page of the article, but I don't feel this would be an easy to use or final solution.

* '''Who would benefit''': Everybody (new and old editors especially)

* '''Proposed solution''': I would like to have an option to change the data (from Wikidata) ''in Wikipedia'' or at least I would like to see a ''direct link'' beside every single data which redirect me to the specified Wikidata property (statement, identifier etc) inside the Wikidata item.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[:phab:T132790|T132790]], [[phab:T103092|T103092]], and [[phab:T136599|T136599]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Samat|Samat]] ([[User talk:Samat|talk]]) 21:09, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Ability to edit Wikidata from WP and other projects/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
[[File:Wikivoyage-listing-editor-v2.1-wide.png|thumb|Wikivoyage's listing editor, which integrates Wikidata in a user-friendly way]]
* I don't see how this could be implemented without massive changes in the UI or in the way Wikipedia works. Even if we ignore cross-references to more than the directly associated Wikidata page: The current Wikipedia editing interface is plain text, while some Wikidata property values don't work as plain text (they are references to other items, they have multiple entries, they need specific formatting, ...). In addition, the plain text is a local thing - you don't want to update the local text every time the Wikidata entry gets modified. Importing the Wikidata user interface could work, then the user can edit the article in one area and edit the Wikidata page in a different area, but that is not very intuitive either and it would need a completely new user interface. --[[User:Mfb|mfb]] ([[User talk:Mfb|talk]]) 12:18, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
* This is doable, even though it probably requires a lot of development. A good example is how Wikivoyage allows readers to edit Wikidata information through a user-friendly popup, see screenshot. [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 15:46, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
* I think this needs proper implementation of constraints first. Otherwise I would expect a lot of wrong data to be entered when multiple items have the same name. [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 13:06, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
* A further problem seems to be that different Wikipedia's use different software to interact with Wikidata. [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 13:10, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
* wikidata literacy is a problem, it takes at least 3-4 messages per wikidata-newbie to let them understand how wikidata kinda works (basically read the item, make a manual edit, understand what is an Identifer...), and this even if the platform they are active has a more robust wikidata diffusion and they kinda got the concept that wikidata exists. More than 50%-60% of them don't even understand how the crosswikilink interface actually works (for example they are totally unaware they leave edits on wikidata when they connect pages between different language editions). We hence need to address the problem also from the software side, as the problem of this literacy is not fully understood by the vast majority or even worse monopolized by few users ("they ask me", "they ask just here") which is slightly anti-wiki. Wikidata should be an opportunity to increase the potentialities of users, not to reduce it. So I morally support every attempt to reduce the gap.--[[User:Alexmar983|Alexmar983]] ([[User talk:Alexmar983|talk]]) 05:29, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
* I think a key thing to implement here is to make easy the amendment of an already inserted piece of WikiData without users having to leave Wikipedia. I think the actual insertion of it will remain a technical task and is less of a concern to fix in this respect. [[User:Sillyfolkboy|Sillyfolkboy]] ([[User talk:Sillyfolkboy|talk]]) 00:18, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
* Some gadgets with a similar aim are already partially functional, like [[:fr:User:0x010C/script/DataboxEditor.js]] and [[:ru:Wikipedia:WE-Framework]]: their developers would certainly have good ideas about this. [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 09:03, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
* '''Note''': There's some ongoing research into this, in these links. [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 23:22, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
** [[:File:Facilitating the use of Wikidata in Wikimedia projects with a user-centered design approach.pdf]]
** [[:File:Human centered design for using and editing structured data in Wikipedia infoboxes.pdf]] (via [[mw:Wikimedia_Research/Showcase#October_2016]] ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsYi4evMlV0&feature=youtu.be&t=1722 youtube at beginning]))
* Also some related discussion in [[phab:T112987]] which was out of last year's [[2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Wikidata#Make it easy to build infoboxes that display information from wikidata|Make it easy to build infoboxes that display information from wikidata]]. [[User:Quiddity (WMF)|Quiddity (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Quiddity (WMF)|talk]]) 23:26, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Ability to edit Wikidata from WP and other projects ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:The Titou|Titou]] ([[User talk:The Titou|talk]]) 08:51, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Gareth|Gareth]] ([[User talk:Gareth|talk]]) 12:08, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:12, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Even though it's unclear at the moment exactly how this could work, I very much support the thinking behind it. We should be working towards greater integration. [[User:MichaelMaggs|MichaelMaggs]] ([[User talk:MichaelMaggs|talk]]) 20:40, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Note, this is not for a specific solution.— ''[[User:Jeblad|Jeblad]]'' 01:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} more attention to better integration, specifically. Editing Wikidata is IMHO easier than editing Wikipedia, but I can totally see that the transition between both is very confusing. [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 15:41, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Mikey641|Mikey641]] ([[User talk:Mikey641|talk]]) 18:27, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} however the UI would need to be quite different from the traditional wikipedia text edit UI... [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 18:51, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --''[[User:Telaneo|Telaneo]]'' ([[User talk:Telaneo|User talk page]]) 22:04, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Blue Elf|Blue Elf]] ([[User talk:Blue Elf|talk]]) 00:05, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}, at first for a single English Wikipedia infobox such as Infobox Person. UI should work on mobile too. [[User:Syced|Syced]] ([[User talk:Syced|talk]]) 07:24, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 08:16, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} unless this becomes like the Commons interface for non-English Wikipedians, where they click the upload and get dumped into Commons. Now that people have got used to that, they can get used to it with Wikidata too. [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 12:26, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Trizek|Trizek]] [[:fr:User talk:Trizek|from FR]] 19:59, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Fixuture|Fixuture]] ([[User talk:Fixuture|talk]]) 21:20, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] • ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) • 23:22, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Vachovec1|Vachovec1]] ([[User talk:Vachovec1|talk]]) 20:51, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:FocalPoint|FocalPoint]] ([[User talk:FocalPoint|talk]]) 20:51, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]] ([[User talk:Mike Peel|talk]]) 22:30, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:WikedKentaur|WikedKentaur]] ([[User talk:WikedKentaur|talk]]) 23:22, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Patrug|Patrug]] ([[User talk:Patrug|talk]]) 00:37, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 00:43, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:47, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Geraki|'''Geraki''']] [[User_talk:Geraki|T]][//meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=&user=Geraki L] 06:52, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 07:14, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Draceane|Draceane]] ([[User talk:Draceane|talk]]) 11:01, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} —[[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} There have been a few complaints that the way to alter Wikidata information is not intuitive and requires you to hop between websites. [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 15:57, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Framawiki|Framawiki]] ([[User talk:Framawiki|talk]]) 20:53, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 23:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{Support}} – [[User:Susannaanas|Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas)]] ([[User talk:Susannaanas|talk]]) 11:18, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{Support}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{Support}} --[[Utilisateur:Julien1978|Julien1978]] [[User talk:Julien1978|(d.)]] 12:05, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{support}} -- [[User:T.seppelt|T.seppelt]] ([[User talk:T.seppelt|talk]]) 16:05, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:By erdo can|''By erdo can'']] • [[User talk:By erdo can|TLK]] 17:01, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Runner1928|Runner1928]] ([[User talk:Runner1928|talk]]) 02:39, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:00, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Kurt Jansson|Kurt Jansson]] ([[User talk:Kurt Jansson|talk]]) 22:30, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} I support the idea of more deep integration between Wikipedia and Wikidata. It would be really nice to do it the same way as interwiki data were changed. I also think that wikipedians should learn to use wikidata. So I'd like this divided into 2 proposals: 1. Redesign templates and infoboxes. 2. Improve experience of people who are not aware about Wikidata. --[[User:Vanuan|Vanuan]] ([[User talk:Vanuan|talk]]) 06:35, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Ranjithsiji|Ranjithsiji]] ([[User talk:Ranjithsiji|talk]]) 11:22, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Pabouk|Pabouk]] ([[User talk:Pabouk|talk]]) 13:08, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} I think this is the most important proposal of the year. There are already multiple projects to develop this functionality, and from Wikidata's inception this was an imagined feature. Perhaps now is time. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 18:29, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} '''★ [[User:Airon90|→ A]][[Special:Contributions/Airon90|ir]][[User talk:Airon90|on 90]]''' 09:33, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Afernand74|Afernand74]] ([[User talk:Afernand74|talk]]) 11:23, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 03:03, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} would be very useful --[[User:LT910001|LT910001]] ([[User talk:LT910001|talk]]) 06:01, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 15:00, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Fixer88|Fixer88]] ([[User talk:Fixer88|talk]]) 20:59, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Ability to reuse references in Wikidata ==

* '''Problem''': Even if the same reference is used for every item of a Wikidata entry, the reference data has to be entered separately for each field.

* '''Who would benefit''': People entering references in Wikidata.

* '''Proposed solution''': Have a selection drop-down in every field that displays references already entered in that Wikidata page.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Aracali|Aracali]] ([[User talk:Aracali|talk]]) 20:52, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Ability to reuse references in Wikidata/Translations|Translations]]''': [[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Ability to reuse references in Wikidata/Translations#Español: Posibilitar la reutilización de referencias en WikiData|español]]

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

[[User:Aracali|Aracali]], are you aware of the DuplicateReferences gadget (can be turned on in your Wikidata preferences)? If you are, do you propose something more extensive than that? I agree references are still cumbersome to add in Wikidata, but that gadget helps a lot. [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 20:21, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
:Part of the problem might be that these gadgets are not well-advertized. Do you know if there is a help page that lists reference-specific ones by function? – [[User:Ajraddatz|Ajraddatz]] ([[User Talk:Ajraddatz|talk]]) 08:25, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
::No, I was not aware of that. Perhaps it should be "on" by default. The documentation is pretty sparse, and when I tried to use the gadget I was surprised when it automatically saved the change after pasting the reference. I was expecting that it would add it in edit mode, so items such as page number could be changed, and the user would be asked before saving. Thanks for the pointer, [[User:Aracali|Aracali]] ([[User talk:Aracali|talk]]) 03:04, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
:: Thank you for this proposal!!! I didn't know that there is a gadget/tool/artifact/''cacharro''/''parato'' that allows to use one reference once and again. By the way, how do you add a page/volume number? I've been referencing with Enciclopedia Espasa (100+ volumes) and Britannica (30+ ones) and all I could say is ''It's (somewhere) there''. Definitely ''documentation is pretty sparse'', ''references are still cumbersome to add in Wikidata'' and ''these gadgets are not well-advertized''. [[User:B25es|B25es]] ([[User talk:B25es|talk]]) 17:29, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
::: Ah. The needs are clearer to me. Yes, it would be excellent if this functionality would be integrated in the default interface. I think this is also related to the [[WikiCite]] project, but I have not explored that very much yet. [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 18:54, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Ability to reuse references in Wikidata ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Gareth|Gareth]] ([[User talk:Gareth|talk]]) 12:10, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}--[[User:Aracali|Aracali]] ([[User talk:Aracali|talk]]) 14:57, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:13, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Spinster|Spinster]] ([[User talk:Spinster|talk]]) 15:44, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:YMS|YMS]] ([[User talk:YMS|talk]]) 16:26, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 18:52, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Mushroom|Mushroom]] ([[User talk:Mushroom|talk]]) 22:12, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 12:27, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Nouill|Nouill]] ([[User talk:Nouill|talk]]) 14:12, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:B25es|B25es]] ([[User talk:B25es|talk]]) 17:56, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:AmaryllisGardener|'''Amaryllis''''''Gardener''']] [[User talk:AmaryllisGardener|'''talk''']] 19:05, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]] ([[User talk:Mike Peel|talk]]) 22:31, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:48, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Geraki|'''Geraki''']] [[User_talk:Geraki|T]][//meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=&user=Geraki L] 06:53, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 07:28, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Entbert|Entbert]] ([[User talk:Entbert|talk]]) 15:15, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} I'm also sorely missing a way to reuse a reference on multiple items. - [[User:Nikki|Nikki]] ([[User talk:Nikki|talk]]) 18:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. [[User:Matiia|Matiia]] ([[User talk:Matiia|talk]]) 23:14, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} – [[User:Susannaanas|Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas)]] ([[User talk:Susannaanas|talk]]) 11:18, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:Marcus Cyron|Marcus Cyron]] ([[User talk:Marcus Cyron|talk]]) 12:06, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -- [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|"?!"]] 13:34, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:By erdo can|''By erdo can'']] • [[User talk:By erdo can|TLK]] 17:01, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:HHill|HHill]] ([[User talk:HHill|talk]]) 10:56, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Bamyers99|Bamyers99]] ([[User talk:Bamyers99|talk]]) 18:59, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Chewbacca2205|Chewbacca2205]] ([[User talk:Chewbacca2205|talk]]) 19:53, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:00, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Beyond duplicating the references I suppose this means [[WikiCite]] collections of all references also. [[User:Bluerasberry|''' Blue Rasberry ''']][[User talk:Bluerasberry|(talk)]] 18:30, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jianhui67|'''Jianhui67]] [[User talk:Jianhui67|'''talk''']]★[[Special:Contributions/Jianhui67|'''contribs''']] 11:29, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:M11rtinb|M11rtinb]] ([[User talk:M11rtinb|talk]]) 16:21, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 03:03, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Allow looking up Entities by specific property value ==

* '''Problem''':
:#It is hard to match Wikidata records with pages on other wikimedia projects or 3rd party services without ability to look up entities based on the external identifiers associated with them. For example if I know VIAF number to be "[https://viaf.org/viaf/2481716/ 2481716]" I would like to be able to look up [[d:Q728201]] using Lua.
:#Many Commons pages in different namespaces might need to access Wikidata properties, but only one can be connected by a sitelink. Currently most pages on Commons that need to access Wikidata use hardwired entry q-code which create maintenance issues to keep them in synch with links from Wikidata to Commons. A better solution would be ability to look up entities based on the values of specific properties. For example Lua code on [[c:Institution:Archéa]] page should be able to look up [[d:Q2860590]] as entry that has [[d:Property:P1612|P1612]] set to "Archéa".

* '''Who would benefit''': People trying to link to Wikidata. Users on projects that can benefit from linking to Wikidata.

* '''Proposed solution''': Create [[mw:Extension:Wikibase Client/Lua|Lua function]] mw.wikibase.getEntityByProperty(property, value) that can look up an entity by a value of specified property. There are tools like [https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/resolver.php resolver] or [https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/multibeacon.php multibeacon] that can do that, but I would like to use it from Lua. I think it would be wise to implement it only for properties that have ''Distinct values'' constraint. Other restrictions on which property that applies to might also be needed.

* '''More comments''': Alternative approach to problem of Commons pages needing hardwired q-codes to access Wikidata properties was to create items for them on Wikidata that redirect to the main ''article item'' where the properties are kept. Many commons category pages are connected through sitelinks to ''category items'' which redirect through property [[d:Property:P301|P301]] to item with properties. The idea would be to extend this approach to many more categories and commons pages in Creator and Institution namespaces. The issue with this approach is that it creates a lot of extra Wikidata items that have to be maintained and kept in synch with each other. Currently if a category is renamed on Commons than that name has to be replaced in 3 different places (category item sitelink, category item [[d:Property:P373|P373]] and article item [[d:Property:P373|P373]]). Also maintenance of [[d:Property:P373|P373]] is not keeping up as we have 209,687 ''Distinct value'' constraint violations. I would like to avoid creating any items that only hold information kept in other item properties.

* '''Phabricator tickets''':
:*[[phabricator:T99899]]
:*[[phabricator:T149108]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] ([[User talk:Jarekt|talk]]) 14:23, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Allow looking up Entities by specific property value/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* {{ping|Smalyshev (WMF)}} Thoughts? Would it be possible to call WDQS from Lua? Would that be a terrible idea (due to lag issues)? [[User:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|Ryan Kaldari (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ryan Kaldari (WMF)|talk]]) 00:17, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
** We are currently in the deign phase of allowing people to create automated lists on Wikipedia and co based on queries to Wikidata. This is the solution to a much larger problem. In addition we might want to have specialized indexes for identifiers for example and expose them directly without going through sparql. Nothing concrete yet though. --[[User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)]] ([[User talk:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|talk]]) 08:16, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
** I'm not sure whether it would be a good idea. There are two things to consider here:
**# Roundtrip time (queries can take really long, and I'm not sure putting those in Lua - e.g. callable from parser) is good.
**# Result sizes - query can return millions of items, what would we do with them?
** If we're looking at very limited subset - like matching by VIAF number or another authority property - it can be made to work, maybe even with faster triple-fragments query. But anything more complex really needs much more careful approach, it can explode rather quickly. --[[User:Smalyshev (WMF)|Smalyshev (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Smalyshev (WMF)|talk]]) 20:45, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Allow looking up Entities by specific property value ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Jarekt|Jarekt]] ([[User talk:Jarekt|talk]]) 03:21, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} OMG yesssss! That I can't do this drives me nuts, whether it's with WLM monument numbers, painting inventory numbers or even VIAF numbers. [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 12:28, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:B25es|B25es]] ([[User talk:B25es|talk]]) 18:02, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:49, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Geraki|'''Geraki''']] [[User_talk:Geraki|T]][//meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=&user=Geraki L] 06:53, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} -[[User:Entbert|Entbert]] ([[User talk:Entbert|talk]]) 15:16, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:01, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

== Article history integration ==

* '''Problem''': [[d:WD:DEVPLAN#Article history integration]]: for sake of verifiability on Wikipedia, there should be an option to show in the history of a Wikipedia article the Wikidata changes actually displayed in the article. Verifiability and control in Wikipedia of what is displayed from Wikidata [[w:fr:Discussion Projet:Wikidata/Archive 2#Visibilité des modifications de Wikidata dans l'historique des modifications d'une page Wikipédia|has appeared long ago]] as an important question on the French Wikipedia, and has often been the proposed solution answering doubts and controversies about Wikidata data. [[w:de:Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder/Nutzung von Daten aus Wikidata im ANR|A RfC on the German Wikipedia]] has decided for sake of verifiability to display only Wikidata data with a real source, and in return did not demand a better control of Wikidata data eg. in watchlist; then the corresponding RfC on the French Wikipedia [[w:fr:Discussion Wikipédia:Prise de décision/Utilisation des données Wikidata dans les articles/Archives#Exiger avant d'afficher les données Wikidata leur meilleur contrôle sur Wikipédia (proposition 3.4)|did not include the question of a better control]] and [[w:fr:Wikipédia:Prise de décision/Utilisation des données Wikidata dans les articles/étape 2#Proposition 1|rejected displaying only sourced data]], making the question of Wikidata verifiability on Wikipedia all the more high-priority.

* '''Who would benefit''': People who want to see what happened in a Wikipedia article including what is displayed using Wikidata, for instance in order to have a better check after they have seen a Wikidata change in their watchlist.

* '''Proposed solution''': See the Phabricator ticket, and on the French Wikipedia the gadget [[:fr:User:H4stings/wef-history.js]] ([[:fr:Discussion Projet:Wikidata/Archive 11#Affichage des modifications de Wikidata dans la page d'historique|described here]] in French) by [[User:H4stings]], which still needs improvements for a better integration and adaptation to exact needs.

* '''Phabricator tickets''': [[phab:T42358]]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 09:38, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Article history integration/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

* I am skeptical how much it will benefit us if we replicate the Wikidata item history approx. 800 times. I don't have anything against a gadget for users who want this feature, but I don't see why this is something to add to the extension. --[[User:Vogone|Vogone]] ([[User talk:Vogone|talk]]) 23:50, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
*:The Wikidata item history is to be used in the history of only one Wikipedia article, the corresponding one, why 800? [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 09:40, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
*:: Because up to approx. 800 wikis can be linked with a single Wikidata item. --[[User:Vogone|Vogone]] ([[User talk:Vogone|talk]]) 23:02, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
*:::Probably no more than 10 wikis ever display the data from a corrresponding Wikidata item (mainly in infoboxes), but more importantly, an extract of the Wikidata history showing only what is actually displayed on the wiki, integrated chronologically into the wiki article history with the same formatting, would be very beneficial to be able to view or search all of what readers actually see on a given Wikipedia page using Wikidata. [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 11:08, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Article history integration ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Gareth|Gareth]] ([[User talk:Gareth|talk]]) 12:18, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 16:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} Cette demande est déjà très ancienne<s>, elle ne date pas même pas d'août 2015 mais de [//fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion_Wikip%C3%A9dia:Sondage/Wikidata_Phase_2#Suivi_des_modifications_sur_Wikidata_depuis_Wikipedia janvier] et [//fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion_Wikip%C3%A9dia:Sondage/Wikidata_Phase_2#Les_diffs février 2014]</s>. Les choix techniques faits pour l'utilisation des données Wikidata dans Wikipédia rendent la mise en oeuvre de cette proposition indispensable pour permettre la maîtrise et le suivi du contenu d'une Wikipédia par ses contributeurs. [[User:O.Taris|O.Taris]] ([[User talk:O.Taris|discuter]]) 22:04, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
#: Rough translation by [[User:Trizek|Trizek]] [[:fr:User talk:Trizek|from FR]] : that request is already pretty old<s>, not from August 2015 but from [//fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion_Wikip%C3%A9dia:Sondage/Wikidata_Phase_2#Suivi_des_modifications_sur_Wikidata_depuis_Wikipedia January] and [//fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion_Wikip%C3%A9dia:Sondage/Wikidata_Phase_2#Les_diffs February] 2014 (diffs in French)</s>. The technical choices made for the use of the Wikidata data in Wikipedia make the implementation of this proposal indispensable to allow control and monitoring of Wikipedia contents by its contributors.
# {{support}} Aidera grandement à comprendre ce qui est affiché dans l'article. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:31, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} Absolutely necessary. --[[User:Tractopelle-jaune|Tractopelle-jaune]] ([[User talk:Tractopelle-jaune|talk]]) 11:02, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 00:45, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Oliv0|Oliv0]] ([[User talk:Oliv0|talk]]) 07:29, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Trizek|Trizek]] [[:fr:User talk:Trizek|from FR]] 13:53, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Cbyd|Cbyd]] ([[User talk:Cbyd|talk]]) 12:23, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:45, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}. --[[Utilisateur:Julien1978|Julien1978]] [[User talk:Julien1978|(d.)]] 12:00, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Psemdel|Psemdel]] ([[User talk:Psemdel|talk]]) 19:35, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:M11rtinb|M11rtinb]] ([[User talk:M11rtinb|talk]]) 16:21, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 03:02, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Copy/paste statements of an item ==

* '''Problem''': Sometimes items need to be split or a series of items created and it would be nice to be able to copy paste the labels and/or statements easily

* '''Who would benefit''': All Wikidabata editors using the standard user interface creating items by hand (rather than through quick statements or some other auto-creation method)

* '''Proposed solution''': See my comments on improvements to the "Duplicate this item" gadget. This proposal is for a gadget separate from that menu item that allows copy/paste to duplicate single statements (this would be especially useful for the "depicts" statement, which often includes many reusable tags)

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 08:29, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Copy/paste statements of an item/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

* In the phase of the migration of interwikis to Wikidata, a tool which allowed to copy and paste wikitext to/from Wikidata became quite popular. [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 08:39, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
* More or less [[:phab:T149905]]. I support it. --[[User:Melderick|Melderick]] ([[User talk:Melderick|talk]]) 22:44, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Copy/paste statements of an item ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 01:20, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Melderick|Melderick]] ([[User talk:Melderick|talk]]) 13:49, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} -- [[User:Stryn|Stryn]] (accidentally unsigned)
# {{support}} as proposer, [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 11:05, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 15:09, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:Trizek|Trizek]] [[:fr:User talk:Trizek|from FR]] 20:00, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]] ([[User talk:Mike Peel|talk]]) 22:32, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
#{{s}} [[User:NMaia|NMaia]] ([[User talk:NMaia|talk]]) 00:45, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:51, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:03, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Jianhui67|'''Jianhui67]] [[User talk:Jianhui67|'''talk''']]★[[Special:Contributions/Jianhui67|'''contribs''']] 11:24, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 03:01, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

== Create infobox for books in Wikipedia ==

* '''Problem''': There is a lot of bibliographic data and properties in Wikidata, however this cannot be used in Wikipedia because there is no infobox capable of displaying the rich data model (see: [[d:Wikidata:WikiProject_Books]]).

* '''Who would benefit''': Editors who work with bibliographic data. Readers.

* '''Proposed solution''': create a Lua module that can display information like [[w:fr:Modèle:Infobox_Livre]] (it can show a work and its translation), taking into account that in Wikidata the bibliographic information is separated in two different items. Import the data into wikidata using bots (if that hasn't been done already).

* '''Phabricator tickets''': This would be a good demonstration for [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T76229 T76229]. Tracked on: [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T128710 T128710]

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Micru|Micru]] ([[User talk:Micru|talk]]) 14:22, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Create infobox for books in Wikipedia/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
* {{ping|Micru}} Could you elaborate on the specific needs for this infobox, please? We have [[Module:Wikidata]] on enwp, which is used in infoboxes such as [[:en:Template:Infobox telescope]] (see [[:en:South Pole Telescope]] for an example in action) - does that have the features that are needed for this infobox, or does the translation angle make things more complex? Thanks. [[User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]] ([[User talk:Mike Peel|talk]]) 23:17, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
**{{ping|Mike Peel}} This infobox in particular takes data from two different items (connected with the property "edition"). The problem is that there might be several editions for the same language, so it would be interesting if the infobox could select all the items to show data from. Or it could be possible that there is only one preferred edition and some others not preferred, in that case it could either offer links to the data items, or offer the information in a collapsed box.--[[User:Micru|Micru]] ([[User talk:Micru|talk]]) 07:08, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
* I don't thing we need an infobox for book, we need a lua system which is optimized for data extraction from and allows the building of infoboxes. I just fear that requiring specific infoboxes will just create different lua systems (with one or several modules) for infoboxes and later will be a nightmare to maintain. [[User:Snipre|Snipre]] ([[User talk:Snipre|talk]]) 05:47, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
**{{ping|Snipre}} If your proposed system can handle items that have subitems, then I am fine with it. An additional fear is that by requesting too much of development nothing will get done. It could start small with this complex case, and then add more features from there.--[[User:Micru|Micru]] ([[User talk:Micru|talk]]) 07:08, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
* Ongoing concern that this project is focusing backwards. The assumption is that the rich data is in Wikidata, whereas the rich data is probably more likely to be found on Wikipedia at this point (yes I am assuming English Wikipedia). So creating something that would be a large loss of valuable data -- unless this loss of data can be addressed -- is non-ideal. Wikidata does not have the ability to create full citations, so how would citations be linked in these infoboxes? I like the concept, am concerned with implementation, continued recreation of the wheel, and loss of data. -- Erika aka [[User:BrillLyle|BrillLyle]] ([[User talk:BrillLyle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
** {{ping|BrillLyle}} My reading of this is that this infobox would use data from Wikidata ''if possible'' and otherwise would fall back to local data. Is that correct? {{ping|Snipre}} This is perhaps also a good reason to limit this proposal to the book infobox, because bibliographic data is easier to represent fully in Wikidata (than say biographical data with lots of variations and citations etc.). [[User:Samwilson|Sam]] [[User talk:Samwilson|Wilson]] 00:38, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
*** {{ping|Samwilson}} Either way, still concern about the loss of bibliographic data. I would posit also, very strongly, that Wikidata has a heck of a lot LESS biographical information than Wikipedia does. I disagree on that point, especially because there is no ability for Wikidata right now to carry over full citations that exist on Wikipedia that could be part of these infoboxes. So either way, a basic problem of lossy data. I feel like I am repeating this problem over and over again and no one really cares. -- Erika aka [[User:BrillLyle|BrillLyle]] ([[User talk:BrillLyle|talk]]) 01:40, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
**** {{ping|BrillLyle}} Sorry, I didn't mean that there's more biographical data on Wikidata, actually the opposite: that we should look at bibiliographic data as a better starting realm because it's (hopefully) easier to get right. But perhaps we need to start talking about exactly what data is required, rather than general concepts.For example, [[Wikipedia:Template:Infobox book]] (and I suspect most other book infoboxes) has a 'pub_date' attribute, which is the date of first publication. This is [[Wikidata:Property:P577|P577 publication date]], and when it's an attribute of a work-level item, it refers to the publication date of the first edition — and so we can easily say that it is the thing we want to display in the infobox. Are there situations in which doing so would be wrong?An example of the use of this property could be [[en:Pride and Prejudice]]: the infobox says "Publication date: 28 January 1813" and has no citation (the citation for this is given in the article text proper, further down the article). The matching [[Wikidata:Q170583#P577]] has the same date, and a citation to the same source.I know this is a simple example, but maybe it helps to be specific. And really: if all we do is shift publication dates and no other attributes into Wikidata, we'll be better off than we are now! Because then we can pull those dates in else where, and there will be only one place to change them (for example, it seems that it was actually the 27th of January that the printer started sending out copies of ''Pride and Prejudice''…). [[User:Samwilson|Sam]] [[User talk:Samwilson|Wilson]] 08:30, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Create infobox for books in Wikipedia ===
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:52, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# Strong {{oppose}} - see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_book#Wikidata this discussion] for reasons why. In short, this was already tried on English Wikipedia and caused several problems that are not addressed by this proposal. [[User:Nikkimaria|Nikkimaria]] ([[User talk:Nikkimaria|talk]]) 23:18, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

== Datatype for Hours:Minutes:Seconds ==

* '''Problem''':
WikiData is missing a key real world datatype for time: hours, minutes and seconds (i.e. HH:MM:SS).
At the moment, relevant lengths of time are displayed in seconds ([https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2781 see example]). While technically correct, the current display and input of this are nonsensical for people; no one can easily comprehend the length of a race lasting 17,039 seconds. This is key inhibitor for any contributor adding such time data. In particular, race times across all sports are affected, but also data on any time-based record longer than a few minutes.

* '''Who would benefit''':
This change would allow users to easily input time data into WikiData in a format which is readily intelligible to them and reflects the sources used.

As time is consistent across languages, Wikidata could in theory greatly reduce maintenance overheads for time data which changes rapidly, for example Michael Phelps's personal record times. (As it stands, if Michael Phelps sets a new personal best, then all 88 of Wikipedia biographies will need updating individually.)

* '''Proposed solution''':
Create new time datatype (or mask) that allows users to input a length of time in the format HH:MM:SS and which shows that format at the front end. This should allow for milliseconds also. Presumably this would be stored at database level still in the seconds format (?).

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Sillyfolkboy|Sillyfolkboy]] ([[User talk:Sillyfolkboy|talk]]) 00:07, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Datatype for Hours:Minutes:Seconds/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>
Just a quick analysis:
* P2781 ("race time") is apparently fine in terms of data stored, it's just that its ''format'' makes it awkward at best and unusable at worst in many situations (more or less all race times greater than one minute, as already noted).
* The current format is equally bad for ''data entry'' and ''display'', so both aspects of the problem should be addressed.
* Generally speaking, this issue applies not only to P2781, but also to P2047 ("[[:d:Property:P2047|duration]]"). A general solution (e.g. the one that encompasses formats other than HH:MM:SS) would enhance not only race times, but ''all durations''. [[User:GregorB|GregorB]] ([[User talk:GregorB|talk]]) 11:34, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
* There is a ticket for this at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T145532 --[[User:Jura1|Jura1]] ([[User talk:Jura1|talk]]) 20:33, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

=== Voting - Datatype for Hours:Minutes:Seconds ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Wesalius|Wesalius]] ([[User talk:Wesalius|talk]]) 08:19, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:SamanthaNguyen|SamanthaNguyen]] ([[User talk:SamanthaNguyen|talk]]) 22:31, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 16:05, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}}, though I'd be perfectly happy with a mask allowing h:m:s interface rather than an outright new datatype. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 16:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} definitely needed [[User:ArthurPSmith|ArthurPSmith]] ([[User talk:ArthurPSmith|talk]]) 17:36, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Mikey641|Mikey641]] ([[User talk:Mikey641|talk]]) 18:21, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Let's have as few datatypes as possible, this one would just be a duplicate to the quantity datatype. 61 seconds or 1 minute 1 second... who cares? [[User:Matěj Suchánek|Matěj Suchánek]] ([[User talk:Matěj Suchánek|talk]]) 19:54, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#:The usability is better when the user doesn't see 23,522 seconds but 6 hours 32 minutes 2 seconds. [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 11:17, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{Oppose}} new datatype. This is just quantity using multiple convertible unit types. Storing it as a completely separate type of thing is the wrong way to go about this, imo. --[[User:Yair rand|Yair rand]] ([[User talk:Yair rand|talk]]) 22:01, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
#:{{ping|Yair rand|Matěj Suchánek}} How would I sensibly go about saying some marathon length was 6 hours 32 minutes 2 seconds and some hundredths of a second long using the present quantity data type? --[[Special:Contributions/2601:14A:C100:9A40:C58A:9D49:8120:DD39|2601:14A:C100:9A40:C58A:9D49:8120:DD39]] 05:04, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
#:: 6 × 3,600 + 32 × 60 + 2 = 23,522 seconds is just the same thing. [[User:Matěj Suchánek|Matěj Suchánek]] ([[User talk:Matěj Suchánek|talk]]) 13:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:55, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} new datatype, I would support improving the user interface for the existing data. [[User:Multichill|Multichill]] ([[User talk:Multichill|talk]]) 14:15, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Like Multichill --[[User:Beta16|β16]] - ([[User talk:Beta16|talk]]) 11:52, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
#::{{ping|Matěj Suchánek|Beta16|Multichill}} Can I take it that these aren't true opposes, but more like supports for a non-new data type solution to the same problem? I'm not a WikiData typing expert and the technicalities of the solution are of no importance to me, but the form of this survey led me to hazard a guess on how this problem was solvable. [[User:Sillyfolkboy|Sillyfolkboy]] ([[User talk:Sillyfolkboy|talk]]) 03:00, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
#:::Exact. I do not think that a new data type is the best solution. A different view (for example via javascript) of the same data I think is enough. --[[User:Beta16|β16]] - ([[User talk:Beta16|talk]]) 09:09, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} This seems to be just a display problem. A preferred display format for a given property should solve it without the need to introduce a new data type. [[User:Barcex|Barcex]] ([[User talk:Barcex|talk]]) 19:52, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{oppose}} Confuses data and presentation. [[User:Glrx|Glrx]] ([[User talk:Glrx|talk]]) 03:04, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

== Easily duplicate parts of an item ==

* '''Problem''': Sometimes items need to be split or a series of items created and it would be nice to be able to copy labels and statements easily

* '''Who would benefit''': All Wikidata editors using the standard user interface creating items by hand (rather than through quick statements or some other auto-creation method)

* '''Proposed solution''': In the "Duplicate this item" gadget, allow various levels of duplication, such as 1) duplicate this item's labels (useful for example with art collection objects with standard names, such as "Self-portrait"s or "Virgin with Child"s); 2) duplicate this item's descriptions (useful for example with art collection objects with standard descriptions, such as "painting by XXX" or "object in XXX collection"); 3) duplicate all statements stripped of references and external IDs (since the references & IDs are generally referring to a specific item) 4) duplicate all statements with references and IDs (if you are planning on just tweaking the references to apply it to the new item); 4) duplicate single statements (this would be especially useful for the "depicts" statement, which often includes many reusable tags)

* '''Phabricator tickets''':

* '''Proposer''': [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 08:22, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

* '''[[2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Wikidata/Easily duplicate parts of an item/Translations|Translations]]''': none yet

<h3>Community discussion</h3>

=== Voting - Easily duplicate parts of an item ===
# {{support}}--[[User:Gareth|Gareth]] ([[User talk:Gareth|talk]]) 12:15, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} [[User:ChristianKl|ChristianKl]] ([[User talk:ChristianKl|talk]]) 16:06, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{Support}} --[[User:YMS|YMS]] ([[User talk:YMS|talk]]) 16:21, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{s}} as proposer, [[User:Jane023|Jane023]] ([[User talk:Jane023|talk]]) 12:30, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} [[User:Libcub|Libcub]] ([[User talk:Libcub|talk]]) 03:56, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Epìdosis|'''Epì''']][[User talk:Epìdosis|'''dosis''']] 20:04, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
# {{support}} --[[User:Ambre Troizat|Ambre Troizat]] ([[User talk:Ambre Troizat|talk]]) 11:05, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Talk:WikiCite 2016

2016-09-21T16:26:52Z

LeadSongDog: /* Forward looking */ tick tick tick

==[[Wikicite]]==
[[Wikicite]] is a project proposal (i.e. proposal to set up a new wiki/domain), while this is an event. [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 08:00, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

== Friendly Spaces - compliance with GLS German Language School policies ==

Just a friendly (pardon the pun) reminder to make sure that the Wikimedia Friendly Spaces policy adheres to any policies or guidelines that the GLS German Language School has, regarding open and fair access by individuals to events. The reason I mention this is because the October 2015 "Wikiconference USA" event at the National Archives enforced a Friendly Spaces policy that was executed in a way that was not compliant with the requirements of the host facility. This led to a situation where key federal employees were not given any of the information that they had expressly asked for in advance of the meeting, so the meeting organizers were in violation of the federal guidelines given them. A black eye on the Wiki Movement. Please be careful with your implementation of the Friendly Spaces policy. Lately, it has been used to just "shun" guests for no stated reason at all, which is certainly a poor way for the Movement to represent itself. - [[User:Thekohser|Thekohser]] ([[User talk:Thekohser|talk]]) 22:47, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

== Forward looking ==

The report so far does not seem to address the future. How are the ideas developed to be translated into plans of action, with people working to implement them? I'm not seeing anything of the sort so far, and it would be absurdly wasteful for all these good ideas to sit idle indefinitely. Is there some such intention described in a place that I just haven't found? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 16:44, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
{{ping|Dario (WMF)}}{{ping|BrillLyle}} Nothing to say about it? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 21:05, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
:{{ping|LeadSongDog}} thanks for asking :) You are not seeing any of it because the report is simply not up yet. What you see are the raw notes from the sessions. We're drafting a detailed report, which will not only inform the next steps but also let the funders know how the money we received was used. Wikimania and a number of urgent end-of-fiscal-year items took priority in the last few weeks, but I'm back to work as of today after some days of vacation and you should see some updates soon.--[[User:Dario (WMF)|Dario (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Dario (WMF)|talk]]) 13:54, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
::{{ping|Dario (WMF)}}Ok, so time marches on. Where are the action items that need to be addressed? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 16:25, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Talk:WikiCite 2016

2016-09-21T16:26:27Z

LeadSongDog: /* Forward looking */

==[[Wikicite]]==
[[Wikicite]] is a project proposal (i.e. proposal to set up a new wiki/domain), while this is an event. [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 08:00, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

== Friendly Spaces - compliance with GLS German Language School policies ==

Just a friendly (pardon the pun) reminder to make sure that the Wikimedia Friendly Spaces policy adheres to any policies or guidelines that the GLS German Language School has, regarding open and fair access by individuals to events. The reason I mention this is because the October 2015 "Wikiconference USA" event at the National Archives enforced a Friendly Spaces policy that was executed in a way that was not compliant with the requirements of the host facility. This led to a situation where key federal employees were not given any of the information that they had expressly asked for in advance of the meeting, so the meeting organizers were in violation of the federal guidelines given them. A black eye on the Wiki Movement. Please be careful with your implementation of the Friendly Spaces policy. Lately, it has been used to just "shun" guests for no stated reason at all, which is certainly a poor way for the Movement to represent itself. - [[User:Thekohser|Thekohser]] ([[User talk:Thekohser|talk]]) 22:47, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

== Forward looking ==

The report so far does not seem to address the future. How are the ideas developed to be translated into plans of action, with people working to implement them? I'm not seeing anything of the sort so far, and it would be absurdly wasteful for all these good ideas to sit idle indefinitely. Is there some such intention described in a place that I just haven't found? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 16:44, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
{{ping|Dario (WMF)}}{{ping|BrillLyle}} Nothing to say about it? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 21:05, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
:{{ping|LeadSongDog}} thanks for asking :) You are not seeing any of it because the report is simply not up yet. What you see are the raw notes from the sessions. We're drafting a detailed report, which will not only inform the next steps but also let the funders know how the money we received was used. Wikimania and a number of urgent end-of-fiscal-year items took priority in the last few weeks, but I'm back to work as of today after some days of vacation and you should see some updates soon.--[[User:Dario (WMF)|Dario (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Dario (WMF)|talk]]) 13:54, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
::{{ping|Dario (WMF}}Ok, so time marches on. Where are the action items that need to be addressed? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 16:25, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Talk:WikiCite 2016

2016-09-21T16:25:59Z

LeadSongDog: loud ticking noise

==[[Wikicite]]==
[[Wikicite]] is a project proposal (i.e. proposal to set up a new wiki/domain), while this is an event. [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 08:00, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

== Friendly Spaces - compliance with GLS German Language School policies ==

Just a friendly (pardon the pun) reminder to make sure that the Wikimedia Friendly Spaces policy adheres to any policies or guidelines that the GLS German Language School has, regarding open and fair access by individuals to events. The reason I mention this is because the October 2015 "Wikiconference USA" event at the National Archives enforced a Friendly Spaces policy that was executed in a way that was not compliant with the requirements of the host facility. This led to a situation where key federal employees were not given any of the information that they had expressly asked for in advance of the meeting, so the meeting organizers were in violation of the federal guidelines given them. A black eye on the Wiki Movement. Please be careful with your implementation of the Friendly Spaces policy. Lately, it has been used to just "shun" guests for no stated reason at all, which is certainly a poor way for the Movement to represent itself. - [[User:Thekohser|Thekohser]] ([[User talk:Thekohser|talk]]) 22:47, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

== Forward looking ==

The report so far does not seem to address the future. How are the ideas developed to be translated into plans of action, with people working to implement them? I'm not seeing anything of the sort so far, and it would be absurdly wasteful for all these good ideas to sit idle indefinitely. Is there some such intention described in a place that I just haven't found? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 16:44, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
{{ping|Dario (WMF)}}{{ping|BrillLyle}} Nothing to say about it? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 21:05, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
:{{ping|LeadSongDog}} thanks for asking :) You are not seeing any of it because the report is simply not up yet. What you see are the raw notes from the sessions. We're drafting a detailed report, which will not only inform the next steps but also let the funders know how the money we received was used. Wikimania and a number of urgent end-of-fiscal-year items took priority in the last few weeks, but I'm back to work as of today after some days of vacation and you should see some updates soon.--[[User:Dario (WMF)|Dario (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Dario (WMF)|talk]]) 13:54, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
::{{ping|Darui (WMF}}Ok, so time marches on. Where are the action items that need to be addressed? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 16:25, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Talk:WikiCite 2016

2016-06-22T21:05:23Z

LeadSongDog: /* Forward looking */ pings

Talk:WikiCite 2016

2016-06-16T16:44:57Z

LeadSongDog: /* Forward looking */ new section

WikiCite 2016/Proposals/Making wikidata a central hub on data licensing

2016-06-03T15:16:13Z

LeadSongDog: /* Background */ sp

== Proposal ==

=== Background ===
WIkidata has a CC0 License. Adding authoritative data sources to Wikidata requires theirs license to be compatible with this. It is not always obvious what license is applicable. A property license exists, so making Wikidata a central hub on information on which license applies to which data source, is straightforward. Wikidata already lists various biological databases. Recently, we noticed that only 2 databases had license statement added [https://twitter.com/andrawaag/status/732503294510129152]. In a concerted effort on social media we were able to get the number to 23 [https://twitter.com/andrawaag/status/733024658988146688]. Also data owners correct incorrect statements on the matter. [https://twitter.com/jervenbolleman/status/732505125474816001]

=== Aim ===
The aim would be to do a small crowd source experiment at Wikicite to add more licensing statement to items on databases or journals. How complete can we during one event? Below is a list of resource listing Biological databases.

=== Demo ===
* Query to extract Biological databases and their applicable license:

== Skills needed ==
* Editing Wikidata items/statements

== Phabricator task ==
* ''if you have a Phabricator task ID, you can link it here''

== See also ==
* SPARQL query to list biological databases and applicable licenses [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20DISTINCT%20*%0AWHERE%0A%7B%0A%09%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ4117139%20%3B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3Fname%20.%0A%20%20%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Fitem%20%20wdt%3AP275%20%3FlicenseItem%20.%0A%20%20%20%20%3FlicenseItem%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3Flicense%20.%20%0A%20%20%20%20FILTER%20(LANG(%3Flicense)%20%3D%20%22en%22)%7D%0A%20%20%20%20FILTER%20(LANG(%3Fname)%20%3D%20%22en%22)%0A%20%20%20%20%0A%20%20%20%20%0A%09%0A%7D]
* Biosharing.org [https://biosharing.org/]
* NAR Database Summary Paper Alphabetic List [https://www.oxfordjournals.org/our_journals/nar/database/a/]
* MIRIAM Registry [http://www.ebi.ac.uk/miriam/main/]

== Participants ==
* --[[User:Andrawaag|Andrawaag]] ([[User talk:Andrawaag|talk]]) 07:48, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
* ''add your name here''

[[Category:WikiCite proposals]]

WikiCite 2016/Report/Group 4

2016-06-02T14:15:59Z

LeadSongDog: /* Notes */ wl

= Group 4: (Semi-)automated ways to add references to Wikidata statements =
:''Room 124'' 4:00 - 6:00 pm

== Attendees ==
''Alphabetical by first letter''
# [[User:Addshore|Addshore]], Thursday
# [[User:Alexkalderimis|Alex Kalderimis]] (RefME), Wednesday
# [[User:Bomarrow1|Bomarrow1]], Thursday
# [[User:Hjfocs|Hjfocs]] (FBK), both days
# [[User:Sckott|Sckott]], Wednesday
# [[User:Till_Sauerwein|Till_Sauerwein]], both days

= Report =
''The group report will go here''

= Notes and links =
== Goal ==
# Play with the current StrepHit dataset: biographies in English; DONE
# create and fill a Request for Comments; DONE
# encourage referenced data donations through the ''[[:wikidata:Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool|primary sources tool]]'': DONE
# Follow up on past discussion with ContentMine and Hypothes.is people: DONE

== Notes ==
* primary sources tool: editing the statement if something's wrong
* Till with genomic datasets
** transcripts for [[d:Q414043]]
** 10k genes
* domain-specific use cases == domain-specific curation tools
* different colors

* use hypothes.is API to highlight extracted sentences
* ContentMine

it would be great if you could add a statement of interest about ContentMine's potential data donation via the primary sources tool here (feel free to add a new section of course):
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IEG/StrepHit:_Wikidata_Statements_Validation_via_References/Timeline

Instructions to upload a dataset to the primary sources tool:
# format your data in the QuickStatements syntax, documentation at http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/quick_statements.php
# ping me for an API access token
# upload the dataset through the following API endpoint
:https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-primary-sources/import
:Documentation at https://github.com/google/primarysources/tree/master/backend#import-statements

Alternatively to points 2 and 3, you can just give the dataset to Hjfocs and he will upload it directly.

Data modeling, i.e., from ContentMine extraction results to the QuickStatements dataset.
:Each statement is composed of:
::A. subject = given the extracted named entity, look up the subject Wikidata Item ID via
:::A.1. SPARQL
:::A.2. API endpoint: https://www.wikidata.org/w/api.php?action=help&modules=wbsearchentities
:B. property = [[d:property:P248]] 'stated in'
:C. value = item ID of the source, e.g., [[d:Q229883]] for PubMed Central
:D. reference URL = [[d:P854]]

Side notes
* FrameNet lexical database for N-ary relation extraction:
https://framenet.icsi.berkeley.edu/fndrupal/
* Instead of 'stated in', a better property would be 'mentioned in', but it has been rejected: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/45#mentioned_in

* Adam: references collected from Microdata
** especially for movies
** google custom search for specific microformats (cf. Sindice)

[[Category:WikiCite workgroups]]

WikiCite 2016/Report/Group 5

2016-06-02T14:05:56Z

LeadSongDog: wl

= Group 5: Use cases for source-related queries =
:''Room 129'' 4:00 - 6:00 pm

== Attendees ==
''Alphabetical by first letter''
# [[User:Andrawaag|Andra Waagmeester]] (Micelio)
# [[User:DarTar|Dario Taraborelli]] (Wikimedia Research)
# [[User:Porteclefs|Eamon Duede]] (Knowledge Lab, Computation Institute, University of Chicago)
# [[User:Jonas_Kress_(WMDE)|Jonas Kress (Wikimedia Deutschland)]]
# [[User:Hwey|Katherine Thornton]] (University of Washington)
# [[User:Konrad_Foerstner|Konrad Förstner]] (University of Würzburg)
# [[User:fnielsen|Finn Årup Nielsen]] (Technical University of Denmark, Thursday)
# Markus Kaindl (SpringerNature, Thursday)
# Adam Shorland, Thursday

= Report =
''The group report will go here''

= Notes and links =
== Goal ==
WikiData will serve as a centralized, highly structured, repository capable of representing the highly networked nature of the scholarly sources that support the Knowledge archived across all Wikimedia projects. This signals an unprecedented opportunity for not only scientists and scholars but also society at large to explore the complex landscape of human knowledge. Yet, it is not clear what such an exploration would look like. What kinds of questions can be asked of such a system? With the generous support of CrossRef and the Sloan and Moore Foundations, the WikiCite 2016 Workshop established a working group to not only envision concrete use cases for scholarly source-related question in WikiData but also to determine whether the technical foundations required to effectively express those questions as intelligent, efficient, and systematic queries are in place. Where these technical foundations are lacking but needed, the working group tasked itself with developing proposals for overcoming such limitations.

This group focused on discussing and prioritizing use cases for wikidata queries involving source metadata. The assumption is that we already have all the required data. We also worked on obtaining a small open licensed bibliographic and citation graph dataset to build a proof of concept of the querying and visualization potential of having this data stored in Wikidata and exposed via SPARQL.

== Notes ==
* https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiCite_2016/Proposals/Retrieving_Wikidata_statements_by_source
* Aim
** discuss and prioritize the most important types of source-related queries that WDQS should support
** determine if these queries can be effectively expressed in SPARQL and executed via WDQS or if they require a different indexing / data modeling strategy

=== Key properties ===
====Properties expressing a citation relation====
* Stated in ([[d:property:P248]])
* Main subject ([[d:property:P921]])
* Published in ([[d:property:P1433]])
* Imported from ([[d:property:P143]])
* Cites ([[d:property:P2860]]).

The 'Cites' property was suggested, supported and created during the WikiCite 2016 meeting. The quick and bold creation promptly became a topic of discussion on Wikidata and a Wikidata user even suggested it for deletion. Nevertheless, meeting participants rapidly utilized the property to mark up a few scientific papers, so small citation networks could be visualized. This was particularly the case for scientific papers about the Zika virus and fever.

====Other relevant properties====
* PubMed ID ([[d:property:P698]])
* subclass of ([[d:property:P279]])
* author ([[d:property:P50]])
* short author name ([[d:property:P2093]])
==== See also ====
* [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Sources Help:Sources]

=== Examples ===
* list all Wikidata statements citing a New York Times article
** e.g. [[d:Q191020]]
* list the most popular scholarly journals used as citations of statements for any item that is a subclass of economics
* retrieve all statements citing the works of Joseph Stiglitz ([[d:18430]])
* retrieve all statements citing journal articles
** by physicists from Oxford University
** that have a PubMed Central ID
* list all statements citing a specific journal article that was retracted
* list all statements citing(WD) a source that cites(non-WD) a specific journal article ( or one that was retracted).
** this is outside the current scope of any Wikidata-related project, it requires storing scholarly citations between papers
all Zika-related journal articles(WD) that were published in the last n weeks https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Source_MetaData/Wikidata_lists/Items_about_Zika_virus_or_fever
* coauthors of X
** requires storing bibliographic metadata for all publications by X
* coauthors of X in Wikipedia
** is there an interest for coauthors limited to sources cited in Wikipedia?
* *other examples of queries on citations restricted to Wikipedia would be more useful
* X's H-Index
* requires storing bibliographic metadata for all publications by X and all their citations

* Can citation links by typed?
* Citations restricted by their target
* Note: you cannot add qualifiers to sourcing statements, e.g. stated in (with a specific citation intention)
* How do we think about veracity on WD?

=== Use cases ===

====Reuse source MD====
** Example: look up a particular publication via a combination of free-form keywords, e.g. author, journal name, words in the title ('choosing experiements evans sociology')
** Is this something WDQS would be able to return? would a vanilla search API be more appropriate?
* Publication lists
** Example: all publications by Finn Arup Nielsen sorted by publication date
** requires storing biblio metadata for the entire publication record of a given author
** could potentially be implemented via a script periodically syncing up an author entry on Wikidata with the corresponding ORCID record
** could extend to bibliographies/ reading lists of all types
** knowledge wells (return the developed scholarship from an arbitrary 'community' [e.g. individual, lab, department, division, university, company]).
* custom curriculums
** Example: all publications by members of a given lab
** ORCID supports affiliations as free-form text, Wikidata has the benefit of supporting affiliations via linked data
** Example: all publications supported by grants from a specific funder
** Overlaps potentially with Crossref data (funderID)

====Sanity Checks====
This is mostly targeted at data producers / source owners
* Example 1:
** bot scraping data about proteins and storing sources on Wikidata
** used to reference text, but created errors referencing synonyms, e.g. Ebola River (Q934455) instead of Ebolavirus (Q5331908)
* Example 2:
** graph representations surfacing type/class errors, e.g. US states sharing borders used to return items that are not an instance of a state [https://angryloki.github.io/wikidata-graph-builder/?mode=wdqs&wdqs=SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3FlinkTo%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt:P31%20wd:Q35657%20.%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3FlinkTo%20wdt:P47%20%3Fitem%20;%20wdt:P31%20wd:Q35657%20%7D%20.%0A%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase:label%20%7Bbd:serviceParam%20wikibase:language%20%22en%22%20%7D%0A%7D link]
* Example 3:
** https://bitbucket.org/sulab/wikidatasparqlexamples#markdown-header-uniprot

====Federated Wikibase Queries====
* run queries across multiple data providers
* analyze data quality by comparing results from separate providers

== Generating a test case ==
We decided to identify a corpus of references to explore the feasibility of importing them and using them as sources for existing Wikidata items. Requirements for this dataset are the following:
* size: the corpus should have a fairly small number of nodes (articles)
* relevance: the corpus should fill some obvious gaps, such as serving to directly source statements in Wikidata
* PID-ready: the corpus should have clean metadata derivable from persistent identifiers (DOIs or PMIDs)

=== Obtaining a dataset ===
* Bibliographic records
** Zika dataset
*** Number of nodes:
***Pubmed search with "Zika" returns 883 articles https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=zika
***List of Pubmed ID resulting from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=zika+virus[Mesh+terms]+OR+zika+fever[Mesh+terms]
*** https://gist.github.com/konrad/341d1b8af1fd602f0f881bcc53c540ab
** Ebola Dataset
*** (all Pubmed records with "Ebola" in the title or abstract) -- Available Now here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gh5ckftwhvt7pao/AAD6-tXO_Kz-QbphFhUmUCG0a?dl=0
*** Number of nodes: 1,600 records.
***ebolaDocs.csv is a list of the records with the above this delimited schema: id pmid issn year vol issue journal journalAbbrev journalCountry journalNlmID articleTitle (just from looking through, this document seems to have some noisy stuff in it. Shouldn't matter because we're only after like 50 records).
*** ebolaAuthors is a list of the authors with this delimited schema: id pmid rank LastName FirstName initials
*** ebolaWD is a list of the entities currently in WikiData (some of which are missing pmids) generated with this query [https://query.wikidata.org/#%23Cats%0ASELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3F_PubMed_ID%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814.%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22en%22.%0A%20%20%20%20%3Fitem%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3FitemLabel.%0A%20%20%7D%0A%20%20FILTER(CONTAINS(LCASE(%3FitemLabel)%2C%20%22ebola%22))%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP698%20%3F_PubMed_ID.%20%7D%0A%7D%0ALIMIT%20100 SPARQL]
***Wikidata scientific articles that contain ebola in title
**APS dataset
* Citation graph
** APS (DOI prefix: 10.1103, i.e. papers like http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevFluids.1.013903 )
** PubMed: full pubmed - Waiting
** PubMed: Ebola Dataset - Waiting

=== Mapping records to existing WD items ===
* Zika dataset
** https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Source_MetaData/Wikidata_lists/Items_about_Zika_virus_or_fever
** identify items that
*** are an instance of ([[d:property:P31]]) scientific article ([[d:Q13442814]])
*** have Zika virus ([[d:Q202864]]) or Zika fever ([[d:Q8071861]]) as Main subject (P921)
**** PubMed search: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=zika%20virus[Mesh%20terms]%20OR%20zika%20fever[Mesh%20terms]%20&sourceid=mozilla-search
*** are orphaned, i.e. are not currently used as a source in any Wikidata statement Query: [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3Freference%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814.%23Scientific%20article%0A%20%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP921%20wd%3AQ202864.%20%7D%20%23Zika%20virus%0A%20%20UNION%0A%20%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP921%20wd%3AQ8071861.%20%7D%20%23Zika%20fever%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Freference%20%3FsomeProperty%20%3Fitem.%20%7D%20%23find%20references%20to%20item%20having%20any%20property%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22en%22.%20%7D%0A%20%20FILTER(!BOUND(%3Freference))%20%20%23Show%20only%20items%20that%20don't%20have%20a%20reference%0A%7D%0ALIMIT%20500 SPARQL]
*** alternatively, identify all items that are orphaned Query: [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3Freference%20%20%3FreferenceType%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814.%23Scientific%20article%0A%20%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP921%20wd%3AQ202864.%20%7D%20%23Zika%20virus%0A%20%20UNION%0A%20%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP921%20wd%3AQ8071861.%20%7D%20%23Zika%20fever%0A%20%20%3Freference%20%3FreferenceType%20%3Fitem.%20%20%23find%20references%20to%20item%20having%20any%20property%20and%20store%20reference%20type%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22en%22.%20%7D%0A%7D%0ALIMIT%20500 SPARQL]

=== Tools for importing data and curating it ===
* source MD: https://tools.wmflabs.org/sourcemd/?
** takes a DOI or PMID or PMCID as input and generates an item, using the data model specified by source MD
** documentation: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Source_MetaData/Source,_M.D./Tests#Methodology
* quick statements tools: https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/quick_statements.php

===Curation===
Ask the GeneWiki community to help crossreference this corpus with existing Wikidata items

=== Running samples queries and visualizations ===
* Zika dataset
* existing visualizations
* timeline
* listeria-generated list of references
* graph visualizations
* queries

=== Reference material ===
* Example queries
** [https://bitbucket.org/sulab/wikidatasparqlexamples Examples]
** [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikibase/Indexing/SPARQL_Query_Examples#Cats Cats]
* [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Statements What is a "statement"?]

=== Proposal ===
* Import an entire corpus of bibliographic metadata and citation graph for a given field
** Show all kinds of queries / visualizations that can be obtained via WDQS
** Source: Pubmed? Mendeley? American Physical Review?
* Mendeley contacted 25 May
** [https://twitter.com/ReaderMeter/status/735495228350566400 Twitter]
* American Physical Review contacted 25 May

=== Example queries ===
''See also ''
* Wikidata items that are instances of (P31) scientific article (Q13442814) and have a PMID (P698) or PMCID (P932): [https://query.wikidata.org/#PREFIX%20wd%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fentity%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20wdt%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fdirect%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20wikibase%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwikiba.se%2Fontology%23%3E%0APREFIX%20p%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20v%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fstatement%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20q%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fqualifier%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20rdfs%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2F01%2Frdf-schema%23%3E%0A%0ASELECT%20%3Fcid%20%3FPMID%20%3FPMCID%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fcid%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814%20.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fcid%20wdt%3AP698%20%3FPMID%20.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fcid%20wdt%3AP932%20%3FPMCID%20.%20%20%20%20%0A%7D%0A SPARQL]
* Wikidata items that are instances of scientific article (Q13442814) but do not have a PMID (P698) or PMCID (P932): [https://query.wikidata.org/#PREFIX%20wd%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fentity%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20wdt%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fdirect%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20wikibase%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwikiba.se%2Fontology%23%3E%0APREFIX%20p%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20v%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fstatement%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20q%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fqualifier%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20rdfs%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2F01%2Frdf-schema%23%3E%0A%0ASELECT%20%3Fcid%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fcid%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814%20.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20FILTER%20NOT%20EXISTS%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fcid%20wdt%3AP698%20%3FPMID%20.%20%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%7D%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20FILTER%20NOT%20EXISTS%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fcid%20wdt%3AP932%20%3FPMCID%20.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%7D%0A%7D%0A%0A SPARQL]
* Wikidata statements that have scientific papers as references, specifically Wikidata items with statements involving a PMID (P698) or PMCID (P932): [https://query.wikidata.org/#PREFIX%20wd%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fentity%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20wdt%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fdirect%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20prov%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fns%2Fprov%23%3E%0APREFIX%20pr%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Freference%2F%3E%0A%0ASELECT%20%3Fstatement%20%3FPMID%20%3FPMCID%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fstatement%20prov%3AwasDerivedFrom%2Fpr%3AP248%20%3Fpaper%20.%0A%20%20%3Fpaper%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814%20.%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fpaper%20wdt%3AP698%20%3FPMID%20.%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fpaper%20wdt%3AP932%20%3FPMCID%20.%20%7D%0A%20%20FILTER%20(BOUND(%3FPMID))%0A%7D SPARQL]
* Wikidata statements that have scientific papers as references, specifically Wikidata items that are instances of scientific article (Q13442814) but do not have a PMID (P698) or PMCID (P932): [https://query.wikidata.org/#PREFIX%20wd%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fentity%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20wdt%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fdirect%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20prov%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fns%2Fprov%23%3E%0APREFIX%20pr%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Freference%2F%3E%0A%0ASELECT%20%3Fstatement%20%3FPMID%20%3FPMCID%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fstatement%20prov%3AwasDerivedFrom%2Fpr%3AP248%20%3Fpaper%20.%0A%20%20%3Fpaper%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814%20.%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fpaper%20wdt%3AP698%20%3FPMID%20.%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fpaper%20wdt%3AP932%20%3FPMCID%20.%20%7D%0A%20%20FILTER%20(!BOUND(%3FPMID))%0A%7D SPARQL]
* Most common Zika author strings: [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fshort_author%20(count(%3Fitem)%20as%20%3Fcount)%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP921%20wd%3AQ202864%20.%20%7D%20UNION%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP921%20wd%3AQ8071861%20.%20%7D%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP2093%20%3Fshort_author%20.%0A%7D%20GROUP%20BY%20%3Fshort_author%20ORDER%20BY%20DESC(%3Fcount)%0A SPARQL]
** Didier Musso is the most frequent amongst them https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q24244119
* Wikidata scientific articles that contain "zika" in the title [https://query.wikidata.org/#%23Cats%0ASELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3F_PubMed_ID%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814.%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22en%22.%0A%20%20%20%20%3Fitem%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3FitemLabel.%0A%20%20%7D%0A%20%20FILTER(CONTAINS(LCASE(%3FitemLabel)%2C%20%22zika%22))%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP698%20%3F_PubMed_ID.%20%7D%0A%7D%0ALIMIT%201000 SPARQL]
* Example citation network for Zika research papers: https://angryloki.github.io/wikidata-graph-builder/?property=P2860&item=Q23906890&iterations=5&mode=undirected
* Another example citation network for Zika research papers https://angryloki.github.io/wikidata-graph-builder/?property=P2860&item=Q23308149&mode=both

==Results==
* An example of how the set of articles can be used in Wikidata [[d:Q202864]] This is the entity for Zika virus, we added sources for several of the statements that had been empty.
* A property 'cites' ([[d:property:P2860]]) was created to model citation events between documents. It
* Up to and after the meeting Finn Årup Nielsen created Wikidata item for all papers associated with data in the OpenfMRI neuroimaging database ([[d:Q23891141]]).

==For Andra==
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/bioproject/PRJNA36615

[[Category:WikiCite workgroups]]

WikiCite 2016/Report/Group 5

2016-06-02T13:47:38Z

LeadSongDog: /* Properties expressing a citation relation */ wl, none exist?

= Group 5: Use cases for source-related queries =
:''Room 129'' 4:00 - 6:00 pm

== Attendees ==
''Alphabetical by first letter''
# [[User:Andrawaag|Andra Waagmeester]] (Micelio)
# [[User:DarTar|Dario Taraborelli]] (Wikimedia Research)
# [[User:Porteclefs|Eamon Duede]] (Knowledge Lab, Computation Institute, University of Chicago)
# [[User:Jonas_Kress_(WMDE)|Jonas Kress (Wikimedia Deutschland)]]
# [[User:Hwey|Katherine Thornton]] (University of Washington)
# [[User:Konrad_Foerstner|Konrad Förstner]] (University of Würzburg)
# [[User:fnielsen|Finn Årup Nielsen]] (Technical University of Denmark, Thursday)
# Markus Kaindl (SpringerNature, Thursday)
# Adam Shorland, Thursday

= Report =
''The group report will go here''

= Notes and links =
== Goal ==
WikiData will serve as a centralized, highly structured, repository capable of representing the highly networked nature of the scholarly sources that support the Knowledge archived across all Wikimedia projects. This signals an unprecedented opportunity for not only scientists and scholars but also society at large to explore the complex landscape of human knowledge. Yet, it is not clear what such an exploration would look like. What kinds of questions can be asked of such a system? With the generous support of CrossRef and the Sloan and Moore Foundations, the WikiCite 2016 Workshop established a working group to not only envision concrete use cases for scholarly source-related question in WikiData but also to determine whether the technical foundations required to effectively express those questions as intelligent, efficient, and systematic queries are in place. Where these technical foundations are lacking but needed, the working group tasked itself with developing proposals for overcoming such limitations.

This group focused on discussing and prioritizing use cases for wikidata queries involving source metadata. The assumption is that we already have all the required data. We also worked on obtaining a small open licensed bibliographic and citation graph dataset to build a proof of concept of the querying and visualization potential of having this data stored in Wikidata and exposed via SPARQL.

== Notes ==
* https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiCite_2016/Proposals/Retrieving_Wikidata_statements_by_source
* Aim
** discuss and prioritize the most important types of source-related queries that WDQS should support
** determine if these queries can be effectively expressed in SPARQL and executed via WDQS or if they require a different indexing / data modeling strategy

=== Key properties ===
====Properties expressing a citation relation====
* Stated in ([[d:P248]])
* Main subject ([[d:P921]])
* Published in ([[d:P1433]])
* Imported from ([[d:P143]])
* Cites ([[d:P2860]]).

The 'Cites' property was suggested, supported and created during the WikiCite 2016 meeting. The quick and bold creation promptly became a topic of discussion on Wikidata and a Wikidata user even suggested it for deletion. Nevertheless, meeting participants rapidly utilized the property to mark up a few scientific papers, so small citation networks could be visualized. This was particularly the case for scientific papers about the Zika virus and fever.

====Other relevant properties====
* PubMed ID (P698)
* subclass of (P279)
* author (P50)
* short author name (P2093)
==== See also ====
* [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Sources Help:Sources]

=== Examples ===
* list all Wikidata statements citing a New York Times article
** e.g. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q191020
* list the most popular scholarly journals used as citations of statements for any item that is a subclass of economics
* retrieve all statements citing the works of Joseph Stiglitz (WD:Q18430)
* retrieve all statements citing journal articles
** by physicists from Oxford University
** that have a PubMed Central ID
* list all statements citing a specific journal article that was retracted
* list all statements citing(WD) a source that cites(non-WD) a specific journal article ( or one that was retracted).
** this is outside the current scope of any Wikidata-related project, it requires storing scholarly citations between papers
all Zika-related journal articles(WD) that were published in the last n weeks https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Source_MetaData/Wikidata_lists/Items_about_Zika_virus_or_fever
* coauthors of X
** requires storing bibliographic metadata for all publications by X
* coauthors of X in Wikipedia
** is there an interest for coauthors limited to sources cited in Wikipedia?
* *other examples of queries on citations restricted to Wikipedia would be more useful
* X's H-Index
* requires storing bibliographic metadata for all publications by X and all their citations

* Can citation links by typed?
* Citations restricted by their target
* Note: you cannot add qualifiers to sourcing statements, e.g. stated in (with a specific citation intention)
* How do we think about veracity on WD?

=== Use cases ===

====Reuse source MD====
** Example: look up a particular publication via a combination of free-form keywords, e.g. author, journal name, words in the title ('choosing experiements evans sociology')
** Is this something WDQS would be able to return? would a vanilla search API be more appropriate?
* Publication lists
** Example: all publications by Finn Arup Nielsen sorted by publication date
** requires storing biblio metadata for the entire publication record of a given author
** could potentially be implemented via a script periodically syncing up an author entry on Wikidata with the corresponding ORCID record
** could extend to bibliographies/ reading lists of all types
** knowledge wells (return the developed scholarship from an arbitrary 'community' [e.g. individual, lab, department, division, university, company]).
* custom curriculums
** Example: all publications by members of a given lab
** ORCID supports affiliations as free-form text, Wikidata has the benefit of supporting affiliations via linked data
** Example: all publications supported by grants from a specific funder
** Overlaps potentially with Crossref data (funderID)

====Sanity Checks====
This is mostly targeted at data producers / source owners
* Example 1:
** bot scraping data about proteins and storing sources on Wikidata
** used to reference text, but created errors referencing synonyms, e.g. Ebola River (Q934455) instead of Ebolavirus (Q5331908)
* Example 2:
** graph representations surfacing type/class errors, e.g. US states sharing borders used to return items that are not an instance of a state [https://angryloki.github.io/wikidata-graph-builder/?mode=wdqs&wdqs=SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3FlinkTo%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt:P31%20wd:Q35657%20.%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3FlinkTo%20wdt:P47%20%3Fitem%20;%20wdt:P31%20wd:Q35657%20%7D%20.%0A%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase:label%20%7Bbd:serviceParam%20wikibase:language%20%22en%22%20%7D%0A%7D link]
* Example 3:
** https://bitbucket.org/sulab/wikidatasparqlexamples#markdown-header-uniprot

====Federated Wikibase Queries====
* run queries across multiple data providers
* analyze data quality by comparing results from separate providers

== Generating a test case ==
We decided to identify a corpus of references to explore the feasibility of importing them and using them as sources for existing Wikidata items. Requirements for this dataset are the following:
* size: the corpus should have a fairly small number of nodes (articles)
* relevance: the corpus should fill some obvious gaps, such as serving to directly source statements in Wikidata
* PID-ready: the corpus should have clean metadata derivable from persistent identifiers (DOIs or PMIDs)

=== Obtaining a dataset ===
* Bibliographic records
** Zika dataset
*** Number of nodes:
***Pubmed search with "Zika" returns 883 articles https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=zika
***List of Pubmed ID resulting from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=zika+virus[Mesh+terms]+OR+zika+fever[Mesh+terms]
*** https://gist.github.com/konrad/341d1b8af1fd602f0f881bcc53c540ab
** Ebola Dataset
*** (all Pubmed records with "Ebola" in the title or abstract) -- Available Now here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gh5ckftwhvt7pao/AAD6-tXO_Kz-QbphFhUmUCG0a?dl=0
*** Number of nodes: 1,600 records.
***ebolaDocs.csv is a list of the records with the above this delimited schema: id pmid issn year vol issue journal journalAbbrev journalCountry journalNlmID articleTitle (just from looking through, this document seems to have some noisy stuff in it. Shouldn't matter because we're only after like 50 records).
*** ebolaAuthors is a list of the authors with this delimited schema: id pmid rank LastName FirstName initials
*** ebolaWD is a list of the entities currently in WikiData (some of which are missing pmids) generated with this query [https://query.wikidata.org/#%23Cats%0ASELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3F_PubMed_ID%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814.%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22en%22.%0A%20%20%20%20%3Fitem%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3FitemLabel.%0A%20%20%7D%0A%20%20FILTER(CONTAINS(LCASE(%3FitemLabel)%2C%20%22ebola%22))%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP698%20%3F_PubMed_ID.%20%7D%0A%7D%0ALIMIT%20100 SPARQL]
***Wikidata scientific articles that contain ebola in title
**APS dataset
* Citation graph
** APS (DOI prefix: 10.1103, i.e. papers like http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevFluids.1.013903 )
** PubMed: full pubmed - Waiting
** PubMed: Ebola Dataset - Waiting

=== Mapping records to existing WD items ===
* Zika dataset
** https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Source_MetaData/Wikidata_lists/Items_about_Zika_virus_or_fever
** identify items that
*** are an instance of (P31) scientific article (Q13442814)
*** have Zika virus (Q202864) or Zika fever (Q8071861) as Main subject (P921)
**** PubMed search: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=zika%20virus[Mesh%20terms]%20OR%20zika%20fever[Mesh%20terms]%20&sourceid=mozilla-search
*** are orphaned, i.e. are not currently used as a source in any Wikidata statement Query: [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3Freference%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814.%23Scientific%20article%0A%20%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP921%20wd%3AQ202864.%20%7D%20%23Zika%20virus%0A%20%20UNION%0A%20%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP921%20wd%3AQ8071861.%20%7D%20%23Zika%20fever%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Freference%20%3FsomeProperty%20%3Fitem.%20%7D%20%23find%20references%20to%20item%20having%20any%20property%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22en%22.%20%7D%0A%20%20FILTER(!BOUND(%3Freference))%20%20%23Show%20only%20items%20that%20don't%20have%20a%20reference%0A%7D%0ALIMIT%20500 SPARQL]
*** alternatively, identify all items that are orphaned Query: [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3Freference%20%20%3FreferenceType%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814.%23Scientific%20article%0A%20%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP921%20wd%3AQ202864.%20%7D%20%23Zika%20virus%0A%20%20UNION%0A%20%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP921%20wd%3AQ8071861.%20%7D%20%23Zika%20fever%0A%20%20%3Freference%20%3FreferenceType%20%3Fitem.%20%20%23find%20references%20to%20item%20having%20any%20property%20and%20store%20reference%20type%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22en%22.%20%7D%0A%7D%0ALIMIT%20500 SPARQL]

=== Tools for importing data and curating it ===
* source MD: https://tools.wmflabs.org/sourcemd/?
** takes a DOI or PMID or PMCID as input and generates an item, using the data model specified by source MD
** documentation: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Source_MetaData/Source,_M.D./Tests#Methodology
* quick statements tools: https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/quick_statements.php

===Curation===
Ask the GeneWiki community to help crossreference this corpus with existing Wikidata items

=== Running samples queries and visualizations ===
* Zika dataset
* existing visualizations
* timeline
* listeria-generated list of references
* graph visualizations
* queries

=== Reference material ===
* Example queries
** [https://bitbucket.org/sulab/wikidatasparqlexamples Examples]
** [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikibase/Indexing/SPARQL_Query_Examples#Cats Cats]
* [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Statements What is a "statement"?]

=== Proposal ===
* Import an entire corpus of bibliographic metadata and citation graph for a given field
** Show all kinds of queries / visualizations that can be obtained via WDQS
** Source: Pubmed? Mendeley? American Physical Review?
* Mendeley contacted 25 May
** [https://twitter.com/ReaderMeter/status/735495228350566400 Twitter]
* American Physical Review contacted 25 May

=== Example queries ===
''See also ''
* Wikidata items that are instances of (P31) scientific article (Q13442814) and have a PMID (P698) or PMCID (P932): [https://query.wikidata.org/#PREFIX%20wd%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fentity%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20wdt%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fdirect%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20wikibase%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwikiba.se%2Fontology%23%3E%0APREFIX%20p%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20v%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fstatement%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20q%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fqualifier%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20rdfs%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2F01%2Frdf-schema%23%3E%0A%0ASELECT%20%3Fcid%20%3FPMID%20%3FPMCID%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fcid%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814%20.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fcid%20wdt%3AP698%20%3FPMID%20.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fcid%20wdt%3AP932%20%3FPMCID%20.%20%20%20%20%0A%7D%0A SPARQL]
* Wikidata items that are instances of scientific article (Q13442814) but do not have a PMID (P698) or PMCID (P932): [https://query.wikidata.org/#PREFIX%20wd%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fentity%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20wdt%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fdirect%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20wikibase%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwikiba.se%2Fontology%23%3E%0APREFIX%20p%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20v%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fstatement%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20q%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fqualifier%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20rdfs%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2F01%2Frdf-schema%23%3E%0A%0ASELECT%20%3Fcid%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fcid%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814%20.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20FILTER%20NOT%20EXISTS%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fcid%20wdt%3AP698%20%3FPMID%20.%20%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%7D%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20FILTER%20NOT%20EXISTS%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fcid%20wdt%3AP932%20%3FPMCID%20.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%7D%0A%7D%0A%0A SPARQL]
* Wikidata statements that have scientific papers as references, specifically Wikidata items with statements involving a PMID (P698) or PMCID (P932): [https://query.wikidata.org/#PREFIX%20wd%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fentity%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20wdt%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fdirect%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20prov%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fns%2Fprov%23%3E%0APREFIX%20pr%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Freference%2F%3E%0A%0ASELECT%20%3Fstatement%20%3FPMID%20%3FPMCID%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fstatement%20prov%3AwasDerivedFrom%2Fpr%3AP248%20%3Fpaper%20.%0A%20%20%3Fpaper%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814%20.%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fpaper%20wdt%3AP698%20%3FPMID%20.%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fpaper%20wdt%3AP932%20%3FPMCID%20.%20%7D%0A%20%20FILTER%20(BOUND(%3FPMID))%0A%7D SPARQL]
* Wikidata statements that have scientific papers as references, specifically Wikidata items that are instances of scientific article (Q13442814) but do not have a PMID (P698) or PMCID (P932): [https://query.wikidata.org/#PREFIX%20wd%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fentity%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20wdt%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Fdirect%2F%3E%0APREFIX%20prov%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fns%2Fprov%23%3E%0APREFIX%20pr%3A%20%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikidata.org%2Fprop%2Freference%2F%3E%0A%0ASELECT%20%3Fstatement%20%3FPMID%20%3FPMCID%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fstatement%20prov%3AwasDerivedFrom%2Fpr%3AP248%20%3Fpaper%20.%0A%20%20%3Fpaper%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814%20.%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fpaper%20wdt%3AP698%20%3FPMID%20.%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fpaper%20wdt%3AP932%20%3FPMCID%20.%20%7D%0A%20%20FILTER%20(!BOUND(%3FPMID))%0A%7D SPARQL]
* Most common Zika author strings: [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fshort_author%20(count(%3Fitem)%20as%20%3Fcount)%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP921%20wd%3AQ202864%20.%20%7D%20UNION%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP921%20wd%3AQ8071861%20.%20%7D%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP2093%20%3Fshort_author%20.%0A%7D%20GROUP%20BY%20%3Fshort_author%20ORDER%20BY%20DESC(%3Fcount)%0A SPARQL]
** Didier Musso is the most frequent amongst them https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q24244119
* Wikidata scientific articles that contain "zika" in the title [https://query.wikidata.org/#%23Cats%0ASELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3F_PubMed_ID%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ13442814.%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22en%22.%0A%20%20%20%20%3Fitem%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3FitemLabel.%0A%20%20%7D%0A%20%20FILTER(CONTAINS(LCASE(%3FitemLabel)%2C%20%22zika%22))%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP698%20%3F_PubMed_ID.%20%7D%0A%7D%0ALIMIT%201000 SPARQL]
* Example citation network for Zika research papers: https://angryloki.github.io/wikidata-graph-builder/?property=P2860&item=Q23906890&iterations=5&mode=undirected
* Another example citation network for Zika research papers https://angryloki.github.io/wikidata-graph-builder/?property=P2860&item=Q23308149&mode=both

==Results==
* An example of how the set of articles can be used in Wikidata https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q202864 This is the entity for Zika virus, we added sources for several of the statements that had been empty.
* A property 'cites' (P2860) was created to model citation events between documents. It
* Up to and after the meeting Finn Årup Nielsen created Wikidata item for all papers associated with data in the OpenfMRI neuroimaging database (Q23891141).

==For Andra==
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/bioproject/PRJNA36615

[[Category:WikiCite workgroups]]

User talk:Daniel Mietchen

2016-05-09T20:21:31Z

LeadSongDog: /* WikiCite 2016 */ new section

<div class="borderc6 backgroundc2" style="border-style:solid;border-width:medium;padding:0.3em 0.5em;color:lightgrey">
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== Welcome to Meta! ==

<div class="lang-en" lang="en" style="color:black">
Hello, {{PAGENAME}}. Welcome to the '''Wikimedia [[Meta:About Meta|Meta-Wiki]]'''! This website is for coordinating and discussing all [[Complete list of Wikimedia projects|Wikimedia projects]]. You may find it useful to read our [[Meta:Policy|policy page]]. If you are interested in doing translations, visit [[Meta:Babylon]]. You can also leave a note on [[Meta:Babel]] or [[Wikimedia Forum]] (please read the instructions at the top of the page before posting there). Happy editing!
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-- 20:13, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thanks for the copyedits, maybe you would like to add yourself as a team member? :) ''[[User talk:Spiritia|→]][[User:Spiritia|Spiritia]]'' 13:31, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
:OK, [http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants%3ASofia_Zoo_and_Bulgarian_Wikipedians%2FSofia_Zoo_Powered_by_Wikimedia&diff=3579021&oldid=3578969 done]. -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] - [[WiR/OS]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 13:58, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

== MuseumNext ==
Hi Daniel! Just wanted to say hi and inform you that I've included your name at the [[MuseumNext]] meta page. Looking forward to meet you in Barcelona. If you need help in anything in order to prepare your trip, please let me know, OK? :)--[[User:Kippelboy|Kippelboy]] ([[User talk:Kippelboy|talk]]) 04:49, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
:Thanks! -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] - [[WiR/OS]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 10:44, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

== Request for Interaction ==

Would appreciate an opportunity for a skype. Am an academician in the sciences at a major US university, in the throes of deciding whether to leave wikipedia writing. If you are not the best person with whom to interact, perhaps an alternative can be suggested after we speak. See Meduban at English wikipedia ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Meduban

Prof D 67.175.21.171 16:24, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

== Wikiscience ==

Moin Daniel, schau [[Grants:IEG/Wikiscience|da]] bitte mal drüber. Danke schön & beste Grüße :) --[[User:Jan eissfeldt|Jan eissfeldt]] ([[User talk:Jan eissfeldt|talk]]) 07:47, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
:Done. -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] - [[WiR/OS]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 08:13, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

== [[m:Wikimedia Conference 2013|Wikimedia Conference 2013]] ==

Hi Daniel. Can I point you to [[m:Talk:WikiProject Med#Chapters Meeting 2013]]? Two places at this year's conference have been offered to WikiProject Med board members. Ocaasi has applied for a [[:m:Wikimedia_Conference_2013/Scholarships|scholarship]]. Registration closes on 10 March, and I think the board should discuss attendance, and decide who should represent us before then. Could you please add your thoughts to the above-linked discussion. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 16:42, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
:Thanks for the note, Anthony. I replied there. -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] - [[WiR/OS]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 19:03, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

== '''''The Stethoscope''''': A Wiki Project Med Foundation Review (Issue 1) ==

[[File:Wiki_med_logo_outline.svg|right|thumb|200px|'''Wiki Project Med Foundation''']]
Wiki Project Med Foundation (WPMEDF) was formally incorporated in New York as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit. Our mission is bold like Wikipedia's: ''Imagine a world in which every single person is given free access to the sum of all medical knowledge."'' That's what we're doing.

In this newsletter:
[[File:Wiki_Project_Med_Logo.png|300px|right|]]
*'''Designing our logos and name''': How and why we made them
*'''Creating Our Board''': Who's involved and what they're doing
*'''Adding 70+ Interested members''': Participants from all over the globe
*'''Furthering ongoing projects''': Expanding exciting in many directions at once
*'''Proposing Wikimania presentations''': Sign up for the talks that interest you
*'''Taking on on social media''': Up and running with outreach (plus business cards!)
*'''Charting pathways for how you can help right now''': a great list easy and important areas to contribute
 
<center><big>'''[[Wiki_Project_Med/Newsletter|Read the Full Newsletter]]'''</big></center>
 
We aim to run ''The Stethoscope'' at least once per quarter and no more than once per month. We only send to people who already signed on as WikiProject Med or Wiki Project Medicine Foundation interested members/participants. If you do not want to receive the newsletter, please add your name [[WPMED/Newsletter/no|here]].

It's been a pleasure so far, and we have so much more to do. Wishing you happy Spring up North and pleasant Autumn down South.
:--Jake and the rest of the Wiki Project Med Foundation Team, [[User:Ocaasi|Ocaasi]] ([[User talk:Ocaasi|talk]]) 20:01, 8 May 2013 (UTC)


== Please fill out our brief Participation Support Program survey ==

Hello, the Wikimedia Foundation would like your feedback on the [[m:Participation:Support|Participation Support Program]]! We have created a brief [https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_3lBhsn9TmKU6fOZ survey] to help us better understand your experience participating in the program and how we can improve for the future. You are being selected to participate in our survey because you submitted or commented on Participation Support requests in the past.

'''Click [https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_3lBhsn9TmKU6fOZ here] to be taken to the survey site.'''

The survey should take less than 10 minutes to complete. We really appreciate your feedback! And we hope to see you in the [[m:Participation:Support|Participation Support Program]] again soon.

Happy editing,

[[m:User:Sbouterse_(WMF)|Siko]] and [[m:User:Haithams|Haitham]], Grantmaking, Wikimedia Foundation.

This message was sent via [[m:Global message delivery|Global message delivery]] on 21:37, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

:Hadn't filled that in because I didn't have experience with the program back then. Next time, I will. -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 07:52, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

== Reusing the project's materials in Germany and Austria ==

dear Daniel. we plan to have the documentation ready by April and it would be great to present it also within your project. I think it is possible to have everything ready on time, and I think I can speak on behalf of everybody involved by saying thank you for the great invitation. I include it into out plan to make sure it is properly acknowledged and please let me know if you need specific formats or if you have any particular requirements (the video is expected to be in French - actually we are planning a series of 3 short videos but the proper plan will be ready at the end of December; I think we can make subtitles in English or other languages - maybe we can ask also the support of the community; I think we can also have a text ready to contextualize it - same issue for the translation). thanks again! great to cross with your work. un abbraccio --[[User:Iopensa|iopensa]] ([[User talk:Iopensa|talk]]) 08:35, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
:OK, thanks. We'll thus plan our exhibit without your video, but try to remain flexible enough to get it in at the last moment. Please keep me posted. -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 07:54, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

== Grantmaking Barnstar ==

{{IEG/Barnstar/2
| message = Thanks for contributing to discussions on so many IEG proposals this round, Daniel! We appreciated having your thoughts :) Hope you'll continue to participate in the future! [[User:Sbouterse (WMF)|Siko (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sbouterse (WMF)|talk]]) 01:09, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
}}
:Thanks, Siko. I like this scheme very much and keep pointing it out to scholarly funders as an example for how project funding could be organized in the open. I will thus continue to check in, and when I see something to comment on, it's just a matter of time whether and when I'll do it. -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 07:58, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

== Upcoming IdeaLab Events: IEG Proposal Clinics ==

[[File:IdeaLab beaker and flask.svg|left|225px|link=Grants:IdeaLab|Idea Lab]]
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Hello, '''{{ {{{|safesubst:}}}ROOTPAGENAME}}'''! We've added [[:m:Grants:IdeaLab/Events|Events]] to IdeaLab, and you're invited :)

Upcoming events focus on turning ideas into [[m:Grants:IEG|Individual Engagement Grant]] proposals before the March 31 deadline. Need help or have questions about IEG? [[Grants:IdeaLab/Events#Upcoming_events|Join us at a Hangout]]:
*Thursday, 13 March 2014, 1600 UTC
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== Video Wikipedia - what is about produced in Douala ==

dear Daniel, the idea of presenting the [[Grants:IEG/What is about - C'est quoi. A series of communication tools about Wikipedia. Cameroon pilot project|video produced in Douala]] in the ship exhibition is great and we would be really delighted to provide you the video. On the other hand, I'm worried that the video will probably not be ready on time. The production seems to be moving to be finalized by the end of April because there is still some discussion on which is the best proposal to select and produce. i don't think it is a good idea to put too much pressure on the team right now; i think it is really valuable that the concept is selected and discussed properly and with enough time. I am really sorry to be unable to guarantee the delivery on time. please consider that we really liked your invitation and we really think it is a great project. please let me know if in the future there might be other chances to contribute to presentations and we certainly inform you about the production as soon it is ready. my very warm regards, --[[User:Iopensa|iopensa]] ([[User talk:Iopensa|talk]]) 10:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
:Thanks for the note, and good luck with finalizing the video! -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 02:19, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
== Barnstar and a request for feedback ==

{{IEG/Barnstar/2
| message = Thank you for commenting on Individual Engagement Grant proposals during this recent round! We really appreciate that you took the time to share your thoughts.

'''To help us improve the IEG program for future participants, would you mind taking this [https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_bNTNrkLvaVeY59j quick 3-question survey]?'''

Thanks again for your help,

--[[User:Sbouterse (WMF)|Siko]] and [[User:Haithams|Haitham]], Wikimedia Foundation Grantmaking
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== Videos für Wikipedia-Artikel: Workshops und Wettbewerb ==

Lieber Daniel, [[File:Vwa logo svg.svg|frameless|right|Vwa logo svg]] über deinen tollen "Open Access Media Importer" bin ich auf dich gestoßen. Ich möchte dich auf das Projekt [[:w:de:Wikipedia:WikiTV/Projekte/Videos für Wikipedia-Artikel (VWA) |„Videos für Wikipedia-Artikel“]] aufmerksam machen. Wir veranstalten einen [[:w:de:Wikipedia:WikiTV/VWA/Ideenwettbewerb | Video-Wettbewerb]], anlässlich des [[:de:Wissenschaftsjahr#Wissenschaftsjahr 2014 – Die digitale Gesellschaft | Wissenschaftsjahres 2014]] zum Thema „Digitale Gesellschaft“. Für diejenigen, die Interesse haben, aber sich mit Videoproduktion noch nicht auskennen bzw. wenn sie Video-Kenntnisse haben, diese teilen möchten, veranstalten wir [[:w:de:Wikipedia:WikiTV/VWA/Workshops | Workshops]]. Nicht zuletzt wollen wir mit dem Projekt auch eine Diskussion darüber anstoßen, wie Videos für Wikipedia-Artikel aussehen sollen, welche Bildsprache der Wikipedia angemessen ist. Vielleicht hast du ja Lust, auch einmal ein Video zu produzieren oder dich an der Diskussion zu beteiligen?! Wir freuen uns über rege Beteiligung und Input an Ideen. Viele Grüße, ----[[User:ALi (VWA)|ALi (VWA)]] ([[User talk:ALi (VWA)|talk]]) 08:28, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
:Danke fuer die Erinnerung an dieses schoene Projekt. Interessiert bin ich auf jeden Fall, mehr lernen ueber Video-Produktionen wuerd ich auch gern, und Ideen dazu hab ich. Eine Teilnahme an den Workshops ist aber zeitlich schwierig. -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 13:00, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
:: Hallo Daniel, entschuldige die lange Reaktionszeit! Schön, dass Dir unser Projekt gefällt! Was sind denn das für Ideen? Es würde uns jedenfalls freuen, wenn Du Zeit findest - beim Wettbewerb kann man aber natürlich auch mitmachen, ohne zu den Workshops zu kommen. Schöne Grüße, --[[User:ALi (VWA)|ALi (VWA)]] ([[User talk:ALi (VWA)|talk]]) 17:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
::: Die Ideen drehen sich darum, Videos rund um [[:en:Wikipedia:WikiProject Open Access|WikiProject Open Access]] zu machen, seien es Animationen ([[:commons:File:Open_research.ogg|Beispiel]]) oder Videoaufnahmen (siehe auch [https://github.com/wpoa/OA-signalling/issues/104 hier]). -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 00:41, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

== Ebola translation task force (draft) ==
Hi! I started [[:w:User:Guaka/ebola|an Ebola translation task force (draft)]] to hopefully quickly get some Ebola related translations in local African languages. I'd love to see your input (and edits) [[User:Guaka|Guaka]] ([[User talk:Guaka|talk]]) 12:10, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
:Thanks for the note. I do not see how I can help at the moment, but I will keep it in mind. -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 01:30, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

== Sunday 17 May 2015 User groups meet up at WMCON ==

Hi! Today Sunday 17 May 2015 there will be a User Groups meet-up at 14h at room E. If you are interested, please join, the main topics to be discussed is the relationship between WMF and user groups, and diaspora user groups as described on [[Wikimedia diaspora organisations]]. If you are interested, please join! Thanks. --[[User:Micru|Micru]] ([[User talk:Micru|talk]]) 08:31, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

== [[Freedom of Panorama 2015 EVA GESAC#The alleged loss of revenue]] ==

I think it should be noted that any revenue from photographs of 3D works is negligible compared to the fee the artist receive for the work itself. I think the mentioned 3-6 million Euro loss mentioned for all of France seems like a minute amount compared to how much money revolves around the industry.

It should perhaps also be noted that these artist societies tend to charge the general public indirectly through [[w:Private copying levy]] etc as well as registration etc. fees to the artists/architects. After everyone gets their cut, the actual people who do the work do not receive much of it probably.

-- [[User:とある白い猫|とある白い猫]] [[User talk:とある白い猫|chi?]] 11:26, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
:I basically share your view here but don't know what you want me to do about it. FOP is not an area I know very well — I read that page to learn a bit more and just made a few edits to it in the process. -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 02:01, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

==IEG Proposals==

Hi Daniel. I have submitted two proposals namely '''[[Grants:IEG/Wikipedia Takes Rinconada|Wikipedia Takes Rinconada]]''' and '''[[Grants:IEG/Run for Free Knowledge|Run for Free Knowledge]]'''. For your comments and endorsement. Thank you very much. --[[User:Filipinayzd|Filipinayzd]] ([[User talk:Filipinayzd|talk]]) 03:31, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

== How can we improve Wikimedia grants to support you better? ==

Hi! The Wikimedia Foundation would like your input on how we can [[Grants:IdeaLab/Reimagining WMF grants|reimagine Wikimedia Foundation grants]] to better support people and ideas in your Wikimedia project.

After reading the Reimagining WMF grants idea, '''[https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0V3bt4EWF24QJRH we ask you to complete this survey]''' to help us improve the idea and learn more about your experience. When you complete the survey, you can enter to win one of five Wikimedia globe sweatshirts!

In addition to taking the the survey, you are welcome to participate in these ways:
*Respond to questions on [[Grants talk:IdeaLab/Reimagining WMF grants|the discussion page of the idea]].
*Join a [[Grants:IdeaLab/Events#Upcoming_events|small group conversation]].
*Learn more about this [[Grants:IdeaLab/Reimagining WMF grants/Consultation|consultation]].
This survey is in English, but feedback on the discussion page is welcome in any language.

With thanks,

[[User:I JethroBT (WMF)|I JethroBT (WMF)]], [[Community Resources]], Wikimedia Foundation.

([[Grants:IdeaLab/Reimagining WMF grants/UserTargets|''Opt-out Instructions'']]) This message was sent by {{user|I JethroBT (WMF)}} through [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]. 01:23, 19 August 2015 (UTC)


== Last call for WMF grants feedback! ==

Hi, this is a reminder that the consultation about [[Grants:IdeaLab/Reimagining WMF grants|Reimagining WMF grants]] is closing on 8 September (0:00 UTC). '''[https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0V3bt4EWF24QJRH We encourage you to complete the survey]''' now, if you haven't yet done so, so that we can include your ideas.

With thanks,

[[User:I JethroBT (WMF)|I JethroBT (WMF)]], [[Community Resources]], Wikimedia Foundation.

([[Grants:IdeaLab/Reimagining WMF grants/UserTargets|''Opt-out Instructions'']]) This message was sent by {{user|I JethroBT (WMF)}} through [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]]. 19:08, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

==GLAM Ghana==
Hello [[User:Daniel Mietchen]] we appreciate your endorsement for our project.I however want to know what your thoughts are with respect to our budget.We will appreciate your input very much since we want to get community engagement .Regards[[User:Rberchie|Rberchie]] ([[User talk:Rberchie|talk]]) 08:56, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
: Hi [[User:Rberchie|Rberchie]], I just don't know enough about the circumstances in Ghana in general and around the proposed project in particular to judge the appropriateness of the budget. -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 23:11, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

== OAMI ==

FYI, the [[:en:Aristotle University of Thessaloniki|AUTH]] Library on the occasion of Open Access Week 2015 organized a mini conference with the title "Open Access in practice". I was invited to talk about Open Access and Wikipedia, where I mentioned Open Access Media Importer and the plans and possibilities for Wikisource and Wikidata. One of the professors expressed his enthusiasm, while he couldn't believe that it was technically possible. :-) --[[User:Geraki|'''Geraki''']] [[User_talk:Geraki|T]][//meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=&user=Geraki L] 15:10, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
:Nice to hear, [[User:Geraki|Geraki]] — can you put me in touch with them? Thanks! -- [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) 07:22, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

== What future IdeaLab campaigns would you like to see? ==

[[File:IdeaLab logo dark orange.png|100px|right]]
Hi there,

I’m Jethro, and I’m seeking your help in deciding topics for new [[IdeaLab]] campaigns that could be run starting next year. These campaigns aim to bring in proposals and solutions from communities that address a need or problem in Wikimedia projects. I'm interested in hearing your preferences and ideas for campaign topics!

Here’s how to participate:
*[[Grants:IdeaLab/Future_IdeaLab_Campaigns|'''Learn more about this consultation''']]
*[http://www.allourideas.org/idealab_campaigns Vote on and submit new campaign topics in '''the AllOurIdeas Survey''']
*[[Grants talk:IdeaLab/Future_IdeaLab_Campaigns|Discuss campaign topics and ask questions on '''the IdeaLab talk page''']]

Take care,

[[User:I JethroBT (WMF)|I JethroBT (WMF)]], [[:m:Community Resources|Community Resources]], Wikimedia Foundation. 03:34, 5 December 2015 (UTC)


== ''Future IdeaLab Campaigns'' results ==

[[File:IdeaLab badge 1.png|100px|right]]
Last December, I invited you to [[m:Grants:IdeaLab/Future_IdeaLab_Campaigns|help determine future ideaLab campaigns]] by submitting and voting on different possible topics. I'm happy to announce '''[[m:Grants:IdeaLab/Future_IdeaLab_Campaigns/Results|the results of your participation]]''', and encourage you to review them and our next steps for implementing those campaigns this year. Thank you to everyone who volunteered time to participate and submit ideas.

With great thanks,

[[User:I JethroBT (WMF)|I JethroBT (WMF)]], [[:m:Community Resources|Community Resources]], Wikimedia Foundation. 23:56, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


== [[Grants:Inspire|Inspire Campaign]] on content curation & review ==

[[File:WPCube.png|right|100px]]
[[Grants:Inspire|I've recently launched an Inspire Campaign]] to encourage new ideas focusing on ''content review and curation in Wikimedia projects''. Wikimedia volunteers collaboratively manage vast repositories of knowledge, and we’re looking for your ideas about how to manage that knowledge to make it more meaningful and accessible. '''We invite you to participate and submit ideas, so please get involved today! The campaign runs until March 28th.'''

All proposals are welcome - research projects, technical solutions, community organizing and outreach initiatives, or something completely new! Funding is available from the Wikimedia Foundation for projects that need financial support. Constructive feedback on ideas is welcome - your skills and experience can help bring someone else’s project to life. Join us at the Inspire Campaign to improve review and curation tasks so that we can make our content more meaningful and accessible! [[User:I JethroBT (WMF)|I JethroBT (WMF)]] 05:39, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

([[Grants:IdeaLab/Reimagining WMF grants/UserTargets|''Opt-out Instructions'']]) This message was sent by {{user|I JethroBT (WMF)}} through [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]].


== Open Call for Individual Engagement Grants ==

[[File:IEG barnstar 2.png|right|100px]]
Greetings! The '''[[m:Special:MyLanguage/IEG|Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) program]] is accepting proposals''' until April 12th to fund new tools, research, outreach efforts, and other experiments that enhance the work of Wikimedia volunteers.
Whether you need a small or large amount of funds (up to $30,000 USD), IEGs can support you and your team’s project development time in addition to project expenses such as materials, travel, and rental space.
*[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Grants:IEG#ieg-apply|'''Submit''' a grant request]] or [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Grants:IdeaLab|'''draft''' your proposal]] in IdeaLab
*[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Grants:IdeaLab/Events#Upcoming_events|'''Get help with your proposal''']] in an upcoming Hangout session
*[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Grants:IEG#ieg-engaging|'''Learn from examples''' of completed Individual Engagement Grants]]

With thanks, [[m:User:I JethroBT (WMF)|I JethroBT (WMF)]], [[m:Community Resources|Community Resources]] 15:56, 31 March 2016 (UTC)


== Thanks for commenting on my IEG proposal ==

Hey Daniel, thanks for commenting on [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Learning_from_article_revision_histories my IEG proposal]. It was all very helpful. I've [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IEG/Learning_from_article_revision_histories#Confusion addressed some of your initial comments] as best I can right now, and I will continue to work on them. I realize I'm not the first person to think about article revision histories as trees; I've still got a lot to learn about what people have discovered so far. Thank you for drawing my attention to some of the more glaring issues with my proposal. -- [[User:Evoapps|Evoapps]] ([[User talk:Evoapps|talk]]) 18:56, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

== WikiCite 2016 ==

Hi Daniel,
Just wanted to say I'm happy to see there will be someone from Wiki Project Med at this event. It has huge potential to improve article quality and facilitate [[w:en:Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Translation_task_force|their translation]]. I wish I could have made it there myself, but likely would not have been all that useful anyhow. If I might suggest a line of discussion, it would seem to be valuable to be able to somehow link to or harvest PubMed's <article type> and <vernacular title> fields. The former would support better identification of secondary sources, while the latter is very helpful when searching for the fulltext original in other catalogues. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 20:21, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

User talk:Dario (WMF)

2016-05-02T16:06:25Z

LeadSongDog: /* Center for Research Libraries */ r

User talk:Dario (WMF)

2016-04-28T21:28:40Z

LeadSongDog: /* Center for Research Libraries */ new section

WikiCite 2016

2016-04-28T21:26:04Z

LeadSongDog: /* Participants */ wl

:''For related legacy proposals, see [[Wikicite]] and [[WikiScholar]].''
[[File:WikiCite wordmark.svg|350px|right]]'''WikiCite 2016''' is an event focused on designing data models and technology to improve the ''coverage, quality, standards-compliance and machine-readability of citations and source metadata'' in Wikipedia, Wikidata and other Wikimedia projects. Our goal in particular is to define a technical roadmap for building a repository of Wikimedia references in Wikidata.

==About==

=== Building a central repository of citations in Wikidata ===
[[File:Webcomic xkcd - Wikipedian protester.png|300px|thumb|XKCD, [https://xkcd.com/285/ Wikipedian Protester]]]There is currently a lot of momentum around citations and bibliographic metadata at the Wikimedia Foundation, in the movement, and across a number of open science, library tech, and open access organizations. The idea of building a repository to store all citations and source metadata across Wikimedia projects has been proposed in different forms for the past [[Wikicite|10 years]]. Wikipedia is currently one of the most popular entry points into the scientific literature and ranges among the [[Wikipedia as the front matter to all research|top 5 referrers of scholarly citations]]. However, as of today, references and source metadata are still a second-class citizen in Wikimedia projects. References are the most fundamental building block of open knowledge, but:
* they are still served by fragile mechanisms such as citation templates;
* they are inconsistently represented across (and sometimes within) articles, languages and Wikimedia projects;
* the data they store is curated in multiple places and often ill-formed, incomplete and not machine-readable;
* references often fail to use identifiers such as DOIs or PubMed IDs, even when such identifiers are available for the cited source.
Reusing sources across articles, languages or projects is still a complex task, and conducting research on the use of references and citations in Wikimedia projects requires sophisticated information extraction skills. In addition to that, an overwhelming number of statements in Wikidata are currently not sourced at all or generically sourced to a Wikimedia site rather than specific references.

Initiatives such as the [[:en:Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library|Wikipedia Library]] have focused primarily on the outreach and programmatic angle, while efforts focused on infrastructure in Wikimedia projects (like [[:wikidata:Wikidata:WikiProject Source MetaData|WikiProject Source Metadata]] and [[:en:Wikipedia:WikiProject Open Access|WikiProject Open Access]]) have not been strategically aligned across all parties involved. We believe the time is ripe for aligning and innovating around the major efforts to build the necessary infrastructure, data models, automated tools and user interfaces to build a central repository of citations in Wikidata and support ''high quality sourcing of free knowledge''.

=== A timeline of previous efforts ===
* Seminal work towards the design of a central repository of citations leveraging Wikidata started at the [[Wikidata/Notes/Bibliographic data|2012 Wikimedia Hackathon in Berlin]].
* These efforts continued through a series of "citathons" hosted over the years at:
** 2014: Wikimania London
** 2014: Rich citations hackathon at the [https://www.plos.org Public Library of Science]
** 2015: Wikimania Mexico
** 2016: Wikimedia Developer Summit
* In 2015, a [http://wikiba.se/ WikiBase] test instance called [http://librarybase.wmflabs.org/wiki/Librarybase:Home LibraryBase] with a dedicated SPARQL endpoint was set up on [https://tools.wmflabs.org/ Wikimedia Labs].
* For a history of related initiatives predating Wikidata, see [[Wikicite|this page]].

==The event==

=== Goals ===
[[File:The_sum_of_all_human_citations.pdf|thumb|page=24|Building the sum of all human citations (slides)]]
The event will be focused on the short-term goal of defining a roadmap and the technical requirements for developing a central Wikidata repository for references and bibliographic metadata. This will facilitate research on references across Wikimedia projects and provide much needed tools to support the sourcing work of volunteers and movement affiliates contributing open content to Commons and Wikidata.

We will also discuss a long-term vision aiming to facilitate the integration of citation and bibliographic metadata with other scholarly and linked data repositories. You can learn more about these goals from a [[Wikipedia as the front matter to all research|joint presentation]] we gave in December at WMF in partnership with Crossref.

=== Participants ===
We are bringing together Wikidatans, Wikipedians, developers, data modelers, and information and library science experts from organizations including [https://www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia DE], [http://www.wikimedia.it/ Wikimedia IT], [https://wikimediadc.org/ Wikimedia DC], [https://nyc.wikimedia.org/wiki/Home Wikimedia NYC], [https://archive.org/ Internet Archive], [http://crossref.org/ Crossref], [http://zotero.org Zotero], [http://citationstyles.org/ CSL], [https://www.jisc.ac.uk/ JISC], [http://contentmine.org/ ContentMine], [http://www.google.com Google], [http://datacite.org Datacite], [http://www.niso.org/ NISO], [https://www.oclc.org/ OCLC], [http://www.fbk.eu/ Fondazione Bruno Kessler], [https://elifesciences.org/ eLife Sciences], [https://www.refme.com/us/ RefMe] and the [http://www.nih.gov/ NIH]. We are also inviting academic researchers from several institutions with experience working with Wikipedia's citations and bibliographic data ([[w:CNRS]], [[w:Ecole Normale Supérieure]], [[w:University of Aix-Marseille]], [[w:Imperial College London]], [[w:University of Pittsburgh]], [[w:University of Chicago]], [[w:University of Leeds]], [[w:University of Manchester]], [[w:Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute]], [[w:University of Wurzburg]], [[w:University of Trento]], [[w:University of Miami Library]], [[w:Mannheim University Library]], the [[w:German National Library of Science and Technology]], [[w:University of Washington]], [[w:TU Denkmark]]).

====Participant list====
Please add your name here after filling out the EventBrite registration form (you'll receive a link from the organizers)
* [[User:DarTar|Dario Taraborelli]] (Wikimedia Research, organizer)
* [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] (National Institutes of Health - NIH, organizer)
* [[User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE)|Lydia Pintscher]] (Wikimedia Deutschland, Wikidata, organizer)
* Jonathan Dugan (organizer)
* [[User:Pbellot|Patrice Bellot]] (LSIS / OpenEdition Lab)
* [[User:sckott|Scott Chamberlain]] (rOpenSci)
* [[User:Marind|Marin Dacos]] (OpenEdition Lab)
* [[User:Sannita|Luca Martinelli]] (Wikimedia Italia)
* [[User:fnielsen|Finn Årup Nielsen]] (TU Denkmark)
* [[User:nettiela|Nettie Lagace]] (National Information Standards Organization, NISO)
* [[User:Sebastiankarcher|Sebastian Karcher]] (Northwestern University)
* [[User:Hjfocs|Marco Fossati]] (Fondazione Bruno Kessler)
* [[User:CristianCantoro|Cristian Consonni]] (Wikimedia Italia, Università di Trento)
* [[User:zuphilip|Philipp Zumstein]] (Mannheim University Library)
* [[User:Harej|James Hare]] (WikiProject X, Wikimedia DC)
* [[User:Merrilee|Merrilee Proffitt]] (OCLC Research)
* Chris Wilkinson (JISC)
* [[User:Afandian|Joe Wass]] (Crossref)
* [[User:Mikeshowalter|Mike Showalter]] (OCLC)
* [[User:BrillLyle|BrillLyle]] aka Erika Herzog (Wikimedia NYC)
* [[User:Navecita|Laura Rueda]] (DataCite)
* Rachael Lammey (Crossref)
* [[User:Pintoch|Antonin Delpeuch]] (Dissemin)
* [[User:Ocaasi (WMF)|Jake Orlowitz (Ocaasi)]] (Wikipedia Library)
* [[User:Andrawaag|Andra Waagmeester]] (Micelio)
* [[User:chriskeene|Chris Keene]] (Jisc)
* [[User:JohnPKaye|John Kaye]] (Jisc)
* [[User:Biblionik|Lambert Heller]] (TIB, Germany)
* [[User:Jnauber|Jens Nauber]] (SLUB Dresden, Germany)
* Mairelys Lemus-Rojas (University of Miami Libraries)
* Chiara Storti (Wikimedia Italia)
* Brian Mingus (Cognatory)

===How to apply===
'''Applications are now closed'''
* if you were pre-invited and have already filled in a form, you will receive a separate note with a registration link from the organizers
* if you have not been invited but you would like to participate, please submit an application to give us some information about you and your interest and expected contribution to the event. We'll send out notifications of acceptance by '''April 15'''.

=== Important dates ===
;March 29, 2016: applications open
;April 11, 2016: applications close
;April 15, 2016: notifications of acceptance are issued (if you applied for a travel grant, we'll be able to confirm by this date if we can cover the costs of your trip)
;May 25-26, 2016: event takes place

=== Program ===
*The precise schedule has not been defined yet, but we expect to start ca. 9am on both days, with an open end on May 25 and a closing session around 5pm on May 26.
*The focus will be on dialogue, not monologues, and on hands-on activities aimed at improving or establishing workflows or learning by doing.

===Venue===
* WikiCite 2016 will be hosted at the [http://gls-campus-berlin.de/en/ GLS Campus] in the [[:w:Prenzlauer Berg|Prenzlauer Berg district]] in [[:w:Berlin|Berlin]].
::GLS Campus Berlin
::Kastanienallee 82
::10435 Berlin Prenzlauer Berg
::Germany
::phone: +49 (030) 780 089 550
::email: [mailto:info@gls-campus-berlin.de info@gls-campus-berlin.de]
* Nearby hotels include:
** [http://hotel-die-schule.de Die Schule] – no single rooms available as of 27 April 2016
** [http://www.hotel-oderberger.berlin/ Oderberger] – email reservations only [mailto:info@hotel-oderberger.berlin info@hotel-oderberger.berlin]
** [http://www.kastanienhof.biz/ Kastanienhof]
** [http://www.hotel-jurine.de/ Jurine Mitte]

===Organizing committee===
* Dario Taraborelli
* Jonathan Dugan
* Lydia Pintscher
* Daniel Mietchen
* Cameron Neylon
You can contact the organizers via [mailto:wikicite@wikimedia.org wikicite@wikimedia.org]

=== Social media ===
* '''Hashtag:''' [https://twitter.com/hashtag/WikiCite #WikiCite]
* '''Twitter:''' [https://twitter.com/WikiCite16 @WikiCite16]

===Funding===
WikiCite is cohosted by the [[:en:Wikimedia Foundation|Wikimedia Foundation]] and [[:en:Wikimedia Deutschland|Wikimedia Deutschland]]. It is generously supported by [[:en:Crossref|Crossref]], the [[:en:Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation|Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation]], and others (additional organizations will be announced soon). Funding to cover the cost of the event has been approved by the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees.

<gallery widths=200px>
Image:Crossref_Logo_Stacked_RGB_SMALL.png|link=https://crossref.org
Image:Moore Foundation Logo.jpg|link=https://www.moore.org/
</gallery>

==See also==
* [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/source-metadata/ Source Metadata Project Workboard] at [[Phabricator]]
* December 2015: [[Wikipedia as the front matter to all research]] on [[Meta]] – joint Crossref/Wikimedia presentation on citations and references in Wikimedia projects
** '''Slides:''' [[:File:The sum of all human citations.pdf|Commons]] / [http://www.slideshare.net/dartar/building-the-sum-of-all-human-citations Slideshare]
** '''Video:''' [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB_oexqz8pA&feature=youtu.be&t=1499 YouTube] (start at 24:59)
* 2014: [[Grants:IdeaLab/Reform of citation structure for all Wikimedia projects|Reform of citation structure for all Wikimedia projects]] at [[IdeaLab]]
* 2012: [[Wikidata/Notes/Bibliographic data|Wikidata Bibliographic data]] notes from Berlin Hackathon 2012
* 2012: [[b:Open Metadata Handbook|Open Metadata Handbook]] at [[Wikibooks]]

[[Category:Events in 2016]]

User talk:DarTar

2016-04-06T03:51:29Z

LeadSongDog: /* WikiCite 2016 */ q

You can reach me by mail via [[Special:EmailUser/DarTar|this form]].

== Re: Research Team Category ==

I've replied [[User_talk:Nemo_bis#Research_Team_Category|on my talk]]. Thanks, [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 09:12, 21 April 2011 (UTC) P.s.: Fa un po' ridere che continuiamo a scriverci in inglese nonostante i babel particolarmente favorevoli, anche se in questo caso specifico è meglio che pure altri possano intervenire sulla categorizzazione.

== Research project template ==
Thanks for the research project template guys! It is great and adds a lot to the readability of the pages! :) [[User:SalimJah|SalimJah]] 09:13, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

== Re: Oral Citations project ==

I've added an entry for the Oral Citations project into the research index, and I think it's now all in line with the format. But if not, will you let me know or tell me what else I need to do? Thanks. Update: the research template doesn't exactly fit this project, whose use and function is more an evolving project itself, rather than a closed loop. I'll keep the original headings for now, since the same information is available there, and we can reconsider headings and the template at a later stage if you and others still feel it is required. [[User:Aprabhala|Aprabhala]] 15:28, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

== Blog ==

Please remove the "$google" and surrounding [] from the pt translation of [[wmfblog:2013/10/17/join-inaugural-wiki-research-hackathon-november-9/#Portuguese]]. [[User:PiRSquared17|PiRSquared17]] ([[User talk:PiRSquared17|talk]]) 18:37, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
:[[User:PiRSquared17|PiRSquared17]], done thanks, --[[User:DarTar|DarTar]] ([[User talk:DarTar#top|talk]]) 20:21, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

== Upcoming IdeaLab Events: IEG Proposal Clinics ==

[[File:IdeaLab beaker and flask.svg|left|225px|link=Grants:IdeaLab|Idea Lab]]
<div style="float:left; width: 60%; background: #FF8333; color: #FFFFFF; font-size: 1.3em; padding: 1em 2em; border-radius: .5em">
[[File:IdeaLab frog cat.svg|right|100px|link=Grants:IdeaLab|Idea Lab]]
Hello, '''{{ {{{|safesubst:}}}ROOTPAGENAME}}'''! We've added [[:m:Grants:IdeaLab/Events|Events]] to IdeaLab, and you're invited :)

Upcoming events focus on turning ideas into [[m:Grants:IEG|Individual Engagement Grant]] proposals before the March 31 deadline. Need help or have questions about IEG? [[Grants:IdeaLab/Events#Upcoming_events|Join us at a Hangout]]:
*Thursday, 13 March 2014, 1600 UTC
*Wednesday, 19 March 2014, 1700 UTC
*Saturday, 29 March 2014, 1700 UTC

Hope to see you there!

This message was delivered automatically to IEG and IdeaLab participants. To unsubscribe from any future IEG reminders, remove your name from [[Template:IEG/GrantsBot/Reminder/Ideas/list|this list]]
</div>
{{clear}}


== [[commons:Special:Log/delete/DarTar]] ==

Ciao, lo so che è cosa minore di mesi fa, ma non ne vedo menzione sulle tue discussioni e non mi piace che si parli alle spalle delle persone: sappi che alcuni utenti di Commons non apprezzano che si usino "superpoteri globali" per effettuare azioni riservate di norma agli amministratori. Quelle erano cancellazioni banali e capisco che semplicemente tu non ci abbia pensato, ma il solo fatto di avere a disposizione un cosiddetto "tastino" non significa che sia una buona idea usarlo. In questo caso per esempio aggiungere [[c:template:speedy|<nowiki>{{speedy}}</nowiki>]] avrebbe ottenuto la cancellazione in pochi minuti/ore, con identica efficacia. Se poi vuoi evitare simili rompicapi, la soluzione piú semplice è quella di ridurre i tastini a tua disposizione richiedendo a [[SRGP]] che i tuoi permessi globali siano rimossi ;-) (peraltro già fatto, vedo): fidati di me, non avere i tastini in Commons e delegare il lavoro sporco è una pacchia! (Spero che non mi scoprano o magari mi eleggono amministratore là per punizione.) --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 11:47, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Nemo_bis}} capisco il problema, mi sembra veramente triviale in questo caso. Comunque sia, avrai notato che ho creato tempo fa un nome utente separato per le mie attività da staff e ho fatto richiesta che i miei staff rights siano rimossi da entrambi gli utenti, dato che non mi servono e non intendo averli. --[[User:DarTar|DarTar]] ([[User talk:DarTar#top|talk]]) 14:14, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

== Search visits ==

We've not trusted Alexa for a long time now, but it seems to have strong opinions about wikipedia.org: «Search Visits 49.00% (–18.00%)» [http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/wikipedia.org]. Any reason to believe something so drastic happened in June? --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 11:37, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
:According to comScore data (which is subject to many caveats on how they estimate pageviews), referred traffic to Wikimedia properties worldwide has dropped by 14% between July 2013 and July 2014 (-36% in the US). We have generated and are currently analyzing historical data on referred traffic based on the sampled request logs. I expect we'll have an update on this some time in October (subject to other priorities). PS: Note that my staff account is now [[User:Dario (WMF)]], you should ping me there for work-related questions or I may miss notifications --[[User:DarTar|DarTar]] ([[User talk:DarTar#top|talk]]) 16:59, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
::Great, it will be very interesting to read the results of your research. Sorry for using the wrong account, will remember next time. --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 17:38, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

== WikiCite 2016 ==

Just a thought: some of the participant organizations have (or recently had) a [[w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedian-in-Residence]], as listed [https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedian_in_Residence here]. It might be worth pinging these individuals to see if they're interested in attending. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 17:36, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
:Any thoughts on [https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/318914766 this]? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 03:51, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

WikiCite 2016

2016-03-31T22:13:55Z

LeadSongDog: /* See also */ link handbook

User talk:DarTar

2016-03-30T18:03:41Z

LeadSongDog: /* WikiCite 2016 */ add outreach link

User talk:DarTar

2016-03-30T17:36:23Z

LeadSongDog: /* WikiCite 2016 */ new section

You can reach me by mail via [[Special:EmailUser/DarTar|this form]].

== Re: Research Team Category ==

I've replied [[User_talk:Nemo_bis#Research_Team_Category|on my talk]]. Thanks, [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 09:12, 21 April 2011 (UTC) P.s.: Fa un po' ridere che continuiamo a scriverci in inglese nonostante i babel particolarmente favorevoli, anche se in questo caso specifico è meglio che pure altri possano intervenire sulla categorizzazione.

== Research project template ==
Thanks for the research project template guys! It is great and adds a lot to the readability of the pages! :) [[User:SalimJah|SalimJah]] 09:13, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

== Re: Oral Citations project ==

I've added an entry for the Oral Citations project into the research index, and I think it's now all in line with the format. But if not, will you let me know or tell me what else I need to do? Thanks. Update: the research template doesn't exactly fit this project, whose use and function is more an evolving project itself, rather than a closed loop. I'll keep the original headings for now, since the same information is available there, and we can reconsider headings and the template at a later stage if you and others still feel it is required. [[User:Aprabhala|Aprabhala]] 15:28, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

== Blog ==

Please remove the "$google" and surrounding [] from the pt translation of [[wmfblog:2013/10/17/join-inaugural-wiki-research-hackathon-november-9/#Portuguese]]. [[User:PiRSquared17|PiRSquared17]] ([[User talk:PiRSquared17|talk]]) 18:37, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
:[[User:PiRSquared17|PiRSquared17]], done thanks, --[[User:DarTar|DarTar]] ([[User talk:DarTar#top|talk]]) 20:21, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

== Upcoming IdeaLab Events: IEG Proposal Clinics ==

[[File:IdeaLab beaker and flask.svg|left|225px|link=Grants:IdeaLab|Idea Lab]]
<div style="float:left; width: 60%; background: #FF8333; color: #FFFFFF; font-size: 1.3em; padding: 1em 2em; border-radius: .5em">
[[File:IdeaLab frog cat.svg|right|100px|link=Grants:IdeaLab|Idea Lab]]
Hello, '''{{ {{{|safesubst:}}}ROOTPAGENAME}}'''! We've added [[:m:Grants:IdeaLab/Events|Events]] to IdeaLab, and you're invited :)

Upcoming events focus on turning ideas into [[m:Grants:IEG|Individual Engagement Grant]] proposals before the March 31 deadline. Need help or have questions about IEG? [[Grants:IdeaLab/Events#Upcoming_events|Join us at a Hangout]]:
*Thursday, 13 March 2014, 1600 UTC
*Wednesday, 19 March 2014, 1700 UTC
*Saturday, 29 March 2014, 1700 UTC

Hope to see you there!

This message was delivered automatically to IEG and IdeaLab participants. To unsubscribe from any future IEG reminders, remove your name from [[Template:IEG/GrantsBot/Reminder/Ideas/list|this list]]
</div>
{{clear}}


== [[commons:Special:Log/delete/DarTar]] ==

Ciao, lo so che è cosa minore di mesi fa, ma non ne vedo menzione sulle tue discussioni e non mi piace che si parli alle spalle delle persone: sappi che alcuni utenti di Commons non apprezzano che si usino "superpoteri globali" per effettuare azioni riservate di norma agli amministratori. Quelle erano cancellazioni banali e capisco che semplicemente tu non ci abbia pensato, ma il solo fatto di avere a disposizione un cosiddetto "tastino" non significa che sia una buona idea usarlo. In questo caso per esempio aggiungere [[c:template:speedy|<nowiki>{{speedy}}</nowiki>]] avrebbe ottenuto la cancellazione in pochi minuti/ore, con identica efficacia. Se poi vuoi evitare simili rompicapi, la soluzione piú semplice è quella di ridurre i tastini a tua disposizione richiedendo a [[SRGP]] che i tuoi permessi globali siano rimossi ;-) (peraltro già fatto, vedo): fidati di me, non avere i tastini in Commons e delegare il lavoro sporco è una pacchia! (Spero che non mi scoprano o magari mi eleggono amministratore là per punizione.) --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 11:47, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Nemo_bis}} capisco il problema, mi sembra veramente triviale in questo caso. Comunque sia, avrai notato che ho creato tempo fa un nome utente separato per le mie attività da staff e ho fatto richiesta che i miei staff rights siano rimossi da entrambi gli utenti, dato che non mi servono e non intendo averli. --[[User:DarTar|DarTar]] ([[User talk:DarTar#top|talk]]) 14:14, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

== Search visits ==

We've not trusted Alexa for a long time now, but it seems to have strong opinions about wikipedia.org: «Search Visits 49.00% (–18.00%)» [http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/wikipedia.org]. Any reason to believe something so drastic happened in June? --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 11:37, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
:According to comScore data (which is subject to many caveats on how they estimate pageviews), referred traffic to Wikimedia properties worldwide has dropped by 14% between July 2013 and July 2014 (-36% in the US). We have generated and are currently analyzing historical data on referred traffic based on the sampled request logs. I expect we'll have an update on this some time in October (subject to other priorities). PS: Note that my staff account is now [[User:Dario (WMF)]], you should ping me there for work-related questions or I may miss notifications --[[User:DarTar|DarTar]] ([[User talk:DarTar#top|talk]]) 16:59, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
::Great, it will be very interesting to read the results of your research. Sorry for using the wrong account, will remember next time. --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 17:38, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

== WikiCite 2016 ==

Just a thought: some of the participant organizations have (or recently had) a [[w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedian-in-Residence]]. It might be worth pinging these individuals to see if they're interested in attending. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 17:36, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

WikiCite 2016

2016-03-23T22:00:35Z

LeadSongDog: /* See also */

:''For related legacy proposals, see [[Wikicite]] and [[WikiScholar]].''
[[File:Webcomic xkcd - Wikipedian protester.png|300px|thumb|XKCD, [https://xkcd.com/285/ Wikipedian Protester]]]'''WikiCite 2016''' is an event focused on designing data models and technology to improve the ''coverage, quality, standards-compliance and machine-readability of citations and source metadata'' in Wikipedia, Wikidata and other Wikimedia projects. Our goal in particular is to define a technical roadmap for building a repository of Wikimedia references in Wikidata.

==About==

=== Building a central repository of citations in Wikidata ===
There is currently a lot of momentum around citations and bibliographic metadata at the Wikimedia Foundation, in the movement, and across a number of open science, library tech, and open access organizations. The idea of building a repository to store all citations and source metadata across Wikimedia projects has been proposed in different forms for the past [[Wikicite|10 years]]. Wikipedia is currently one of the most popular entry points into the scientific literature and ranges among the [[Wikipedia as the front matter to all research|top 5 referrers of scholarly citations]]. However, as of today, references and source metadata are still a second-class citizen in Wikimedia projects. References are the most fundamental building block of open knowledge, but:
* they are still served by fragile mechanisms such as citation templates;
* they are inconsistently represented across (and sometimes within) articles, languages and Wikimedia projects;
* the data they store is curated in multiple places and often ill-formed, incomplete and not machine-readable;
* references often fail to use identifiers such as DOIs or PubMed IDs, even when such identifiers are available for the cited source.
Reusing sources across articles, languages or projects is still a complex task, and conducting research on the use of references and citations in Wikimedia projects requires sophisticated information extraction skills. In addition to that, an overwhelming number of statements in Wikidata are currently not sourced at all or generically sourced to a Wikimedia site rather than specific references.

Initiatives such as the [[:en:Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library|Wikipedia Library]] have focused primarily on the outreach and programmatic angle, while efforts focused on infrastructure in Wikimedia projects (like [[:wikidata:Wikidata:WikiProject Source MetaData|WikiProject Source Metadata]] and [[:en:Wikipedia:WikiProject Open Access|WikiProject Open Access]]) have not been strategically aligned across all parties involved. We believe the time is ripe for aligning and innovating around the major efforts to build the necessary infrastructure, data models, automated tools and user interfaces to build a central repository of citations in Wikidata and support ''high quality sourcing of free knowledge''.

=== Previous efforts ===
* Seminal work towards the design of a central repository of citations leveraging Wikidata started at the [[Wikidata/Notes/Bibliographic data|2012 Wikimedia Hackathon in Berlin]].
* These efforts continued through a series of "citathons" hosted over the years at:
** Wikimania London 2014
** the 2014 rich citations hackathon at the Public Library of Science
** Wikimania Mexico 2015
** the 2016 Wikimedia Developer Summit.
* In 2015 a WikiBase test instance called [http://librarybase.wmflabs.org/wiki/Librarybase:Home LibraryBase] with a dedicated SPARQL endpoint was set up on Labs.
* For a history of related initiatives predating Wikidata, see [[Wikicite|this page]].

==The event==

=== Goals ===
[[File:The_sum_of_all_human_citations.pdf|thumb|page=24|Building the sum of all human citations (slides)]]
The event will be focused on the short-term goal of defining a roadmap and the technical requirements for developing a central Wikidata repository for references and bibliographic metadata. This will facilitate research on references across Wikimedia projects and provide much needed tools to support the sourcing work of volunteers and movement affiliates contributing open content to Commons and Wikidata.

We will also discuss a long-term vision aiming to facilitate the integration of citation and bibliographic metadata with other scholarly and linked data repositories. You can learn more about these goals from a [[Wikipedia as the front matter to all research|joint presentation]] we gave in December at WMF in partnership with Crossref.
=== Participants ===
We'll bring together Wikidatans, Wikipedians, developers, data modelers, and information and library science experts from organizations such as [https://www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia DE], [http://www.wikimedia.it/ Wikimedia IT], [https://wikimediadc.org/ Wikimedia DC], [http://crossref.org/ Crossref], [http://zotero.org Zotero], [http://citationstyles.org/ CSL], [http://contentmine.org/ ContentMine], [http://www.google.com Google], [http://datacite.org Datacite], [http://www.niso.org/ NISO], [https://www.oclc.org/ OCLC] and the [http://www.nih.gov/ NIH]. We are also inviting academic researchers from several institutions with experience working with Wikipedia's citations and bibliographic data. Most invitees will be funded by their institutions but we expect a small number of participants to need travel support. We will open up the event to a limited number of additional participants via an open application form. Our goal is to keep the size of the event within a maximum number of 50 attendees.

=== Dates ===
* May 25 (Wed) - May 26 (Thur), 2016

===Venue===
* The venue is currently being confirmed and will be announced shortly

===Program===
* minimize monologues
* emphasize dialogue and hands-on activities

===Organizing committee===
* Dario Taraborelli
* Daniel Mietchen
* Jonathan Dugan
* Cameron Neylon
* Lydia Pintscher
You can contact the organizers via {{email|wikicite|wikimedia.org}}

===Sponsors===
* sponsors for the event will be announced shortly

==See also==
* [[Wikipedia as the front matter to all research]] – a joint Crossref/Wikimedia presentation on citations and references in Wikimedia projects.
* [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/source-metadata/ Phabricator: Source Metadata]
* [[Wikidata/Notes/Bibliographic data]] (from 2012)

Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia Foundation/2016/Draft

2016-03-22T17:50:46Z

LeadSongDog: /* Argument */ sorry?

<noinclude>
{{TNT|TalkInAnyLanguage}}
</noinclude>

{| style="border:1px solid #AAA; background:#f9f9f9; width:100%; margin:0 auto 1em auto; padding:.2em;"
|style="width:40px"|
|style="text-align:center;"| '''This consultation is now closed. Thank you to all who shared thoughts. A draft of the Wikimedia Foundation's 2016-2017 Annual Plan will be posted for public comment on or before April 1.'''
|}

== Community files not accessible? Even to read? ==
:Not sure the issues discussed below at some length qualify for the status of ''issue fixed''? (See in the green bar below to the right [show] for more info.) ...Recent WMF executive director turnover (Lila Tretikov), handling of the special $250,000 Knight Foundation grant, Knowledge Engine / Search and Discovery initiative, Internal Control irregularities around community funds dissemination, (Funds Dissemination Committee) and plans for head-to-head competition with Google on search services clearly rise to ''strategic level'' issues. Just trying to cover them up is not the best way to plan to move the ball ahead in the upcoming year. None are discussed in the synthesis file posted yet all issues were well known ahead of that. [[User:Rjlabs|Rjlabs]] ([[User talk:Rjlabs|talk]]) 22:37, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::I've tried to suggest one way the Knowledge Engine / Search and Discovery effort can pivot to cooperate with the default search engines instead of competing with them below. This talk page will be used to create the synthesis and critical questions. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 13:38, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
::A Knowledge Engine is not a specific project in the current strategy. We do have ongoing work with the search function which is described at the Discovery page on MediaWiki, but there are no plans for head-to-head competition with Google on search services or anything else. You can keep up with the work planned on improving search at the MediaWiki [[mw:Wikimedia_Discovery|Discovery]] page. Our strategic focuses are set out in this document, but those strategic focuses are not the only work we will be doing - they are our areas of greatest focus. All of our planned work will be detailed in the Annual Plan we will release on or by April 1. [[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 18:53, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|Rjlabs}}, I'm the one who collapsed the section you wrote. I didn't do it to hide anything, or to imply that the Knowledge Engine situation/Lila situation was "fixed"; rather, I collapsed it because, based on how I understood what you wrote, your post seemed to be based on your feeling that the synthesis files being redlinked/inaccessible was a symptom of a coverup. Since that issue was fixed when the first file was uploaded and the second marked as "coming soon," and since this section was extremely long and posted well before the draft strategy was posted, it seemed reasonable to collapse it. If you'd like to discuss the issue of WMF/community relations in the context of the draft strategy, that seems like a perfectly reasonable topic for this page; I would suggest you read through the draft strategy if you haven't already done so, and then start a new section on this page to discuss your take. I say "start a new section" not because I'm saying you're not allowed to use this one or anything, but just because the heading of this section is about a different issue and is pretty far up on the page; starting a new section with a more relevant header is likely to get your thoughts reads by more people checking in on this page's discussions. [[User:Kbrown (WMF)|Kbrown (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Kbrown (WMF)|talk]]) 19:04, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

:{{collapse top|1=Issue fixed, collapsing for ease of scrolling [[User:Kbrown (WMF)|Kbrown (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Kbrown (WMF)|talk]]) 14:27, 4 March 2016 (UTC)}}
:''Unauthorized. You do not have permission to upload this file, for the following reason: The action you have requested is limited to users in one of the groups: Administrators, Uploaders.''

[[File:Strategic approaches synthesis (2016)]] 
[[File:Critical question synthesis (2016)]]
.
Seems odd the synthesis from the community, as compiled by the foundation, is not accessible.

<nowiki>***</nowiki>

Community (volunteers) / Foundation (paid staff & unpaid trustee/directors) relations seem exceptionally strained at the moment. One heated area appears to be a large financial commitment to a program called [[Knowledge_Engine|Knowledge Engine]] being developed by a new, well funded engineering team housed at Foundation headquarters. [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Discovery Search and Discovery]

R&D efforts are supposed to start with the ''Annual Plan'' (including objectives) which is then implemented through an ''Annual Plan Grants Program.'' The actual individual grants are to be approved by a nine person [[Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee|''Funds Dissemination Committee'']]

[[User:Risker|Anne Clin (Risker)]] from Canada, a Foundation appointed member the ''Funds Dissemination Committee'' visited Foundation headquarters and on 30 May 2015 noted:

:''Search and Discovery, a new team, seems to be extraordinarily well-staffed with a disproportionate number of engineers at the same time as other areas seem to be wanting for them. I don't see "fix search" in the Call to Action document'' [a digest of annual plan objectives]; ''even if it fell into the heading "Improve technology and execution", this seems like an abnormally large concentration of the top WMF'' [Foundation] ''Engineering minds to be focusing on a topic that didn't even rate its own mention in the CtA.'' [call to action section of the Annual Plan]. ''More explanation of why Search and Discovery has suddenly become such a major focus is required to assess whether this is appropriate resourcing.''

Apparently, unknown to the Community (volunteers and financial contributors), the Foundation embarked on a substantial project on its own. It accepted grant money that was not administered by the duly appointed and elected nine member ''Funds Dissemination Committee''.

The [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunkworks_project Skunkworks project] called ''Knowledge Engine'' project is best described succinctly in a paragraph out of the [http://knightfoundation.org/grants/201551260/ September, 9 2015 Grant awarded by the Knight Foundation for $250,000] available at [https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/File:Knowledge_engine_grant_agreement.pdf#file Knight agreement]:

:''Knowledge Engine By Wikipedia will democratize the discovery of media, news and information - it will make the Internet's most relevant information more accessible and openly curated, and it will create an open data engine that's completely free of commercial interests. Today, commercial search engines dominate search-engine use of the Internet, and they're employing proprietary technologies to consolidate channels of access to the Internet's knowledge and information. Their algorithms obscure the way the Internet's information is collected and displayed. Knowledge Engine by Wikipedia upends this commercial structure by emphasizing six key areas: 1) Public curation mechanisms for quality; 2) Transparency, telling users exactly how the information originated; 3) Open data access to metadata, giving users the exact date source of the information; 4) Protected user privacy, with their searching protected by strict privacy controls; 5) No advertising, which assures the free flow of information and a complete separation from commercial interests; 6) Internalization, which emphasizes community building and the sharing of information instead of a top-down approach. Knowledge Engine by Wikipedia will be the Internet's first transparent search engine, and the first one originated by the Wikimedia Foundation.''

Risks were also discussed in the above grant. Specifically:

# ''Third-party influence or interference. Google, Yahoo or another big commercial search engine could suddenly devote resources to a similar project, which could reduce the success of the project. This is the biggest challenge, and an external one.''
# ''Sophisticated role hiring and team attrition. In the San Francisco Bay Area, hiring top engineering staff, and retaining them, is more challenging than ever because of competition from start-ups and established for-profit companies.''

:''The main way to mitigate the first challenge: Proceed with the search engine project as deliberately as possible - which is what the Wikimedia Foundation is doing. The foundation is also optimizing the project for success by hiring engineers who are deeply motivated to work for a nonprofit with an important mission. We've always overcome this challenge, with engineers happy to join a work force that celebrates when people around the world get better access to knowledge.''

More at: [http://thewikipedian.net/2016/02/19/knowledge-engine-lila-tretikov/ ''Search and Destroy: The Knowledge Engine and the Undoing of Lila Tretikov'']: Blog post by Bill Beutler, February 19, 2016.

The above speaks to an immature system of '''internal control''' which needs to rise up to the very top of the 2016 to do list. Although the clear mission is charitable it still must become responsible to "shareholders". The community of contributors (financial and time) are the shareholders. Ultimately all the directors and management must be made ''accountable.''

'''Go to school on Google'''

Public disclosures at Google well illustrate the nature of ''internal control'' needed at a large web company. Note how [http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000165204416000012/googexhibit3104q42015.htm Ruth Porat CFO] and [http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000165204416000012/googexhibit3101q42015.htm Larry Page CEO] must each sign that their ''internal control system'' is rock solid, and that they are personally attending to it.

A reading of selected sections of Google's annual report is also very instructive as to just how competitive providing services, especially search engine services, are over the web. Services such as ''Knowledge Engine'' envisions to be are likely to draw out substantial competitive response from giant competitors. Such heated competition would in any case require a Cadillac quality ''internal control system''' and a very unified desire (ie Community and Foundation on the exact same page) to push ahead in that direction.

'''From GOOGLE 10-K [http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000165204416000012/goog10-k2015.htm#sE6CD9F65F0AA8AE3CD60CA518A030F8A Competition subsection of BUSINESS] emphasis added.'''

Our business is characterized by rapid change as well as new and disruptive technologies. We face formidable competition in every aspect of our business, '''particularly from companies that seek to connect people with online information''' and provide them with relevant advertising. We face competition from:
*'''General purpose search engines and information services''', such as Yahoo, Microsoft's Bing, Yandex, Baidu, Naver, WebCrawler, and MyWebSearch.
*Vertical search engines and e-commerce websites, such as Kayak ('''travel queries'''), LinkedIn ('''job queries'''), WebMD ('''health queries'''), and Amazon and eBay ('''e-commerce''). '''Some users will navigate directly to such content, websites, and apps rather than go through Google.'''
*Social networks, such as '''Facebook and Twitter'''. Some users are increasingly relying on social networks for product or service referrals, '''rather than seeking information through traditional search engines.'''
*Other forms of advertising, such as television, radio, newspapers, magazines, billboards, and yellow pages. Our advertisers typically advertise in multiple media, both online and offline.
*Other online advertising platforms and networks, including Criteo, AppNexus, and Facebook, that compete for advertisers with AdWords, our primary auction-based advertising program.
*'''Other operating systems and mobile device companies.'''
*'''Providers of online products and services that provide answers, information, and services.''' A number of our online products and services, including Gmail, YouTube, and Google Docs, compete directly with new and established companies, which offer communication, information, storage and entertainment services, either on a stand-alone basis or integrated into other offerings.

Competing successfully depends heavily on our ability to rapidly deliver innovative products and technologies to the marketplace so that we can attract and retain:
*'''Users, for whom other products and services are literally one click away, primarily on the basis of the relevance and usefulness of our search results and the features, availability, and ease of use of our products and services.'''
*Advertisers, primarily based on our ability to generate sales leads, and ultimately customers, and to deliver their advertisements in an efficient and effective manner across a variety of distribution channels.
*'''Content providers''' (Google Network Members, the parties who use our advertising programs to deliver relevant ads alongside their search results and content, as well as '''other content providers for whom we distribute or license content)''', primarily based on the quality of our advertiser base, our ability to help these partners generate revenues from advertising, and the terms of our agreements with them.

'''From GOOGLE 10-K
[http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000165204416000012/goog10-2015.htm#sBF525117D634DB8684E2CA518A5591F2 Risk Factors]. Emphasis added.'''

'''Web spam and content farms could decrease our search quality, which could damage our reputation and deter our current and potential users from using our products and services.'''

“Web spam” refers to websites that attempt to violate a search engine's quality guidelines or that otherwise seek to rank higher in search results than a search engine's assessment of their relevance and utility would rank them.
Although English-language web spam in our search results has been significantly reduced, and web spam in most other languages is limited, '''we expect web spammers will continue to seek ways to improve their rankings inappropriately.''' We continuously combat web spam, '''including through indexing technology that makes it harder for spam-like, less useful web content to rank highly.''' We face challenges from low-quality and irrelevant content websites, including '''“content farms”, which are websites that generate large quantities of low-quality content''' to help them improve their search rankings. '''We are continually launching algorithmic changes focused on low-quality websites.''' If our search results display an increasing number of web spam and content farms, this could hurt '''our reputation for delivering relevant information or reduce user traffic to our websites.''' In addition, as we continue to take actions to improve our search quality and reduce low-quality content, this may in the short run reduce our AdSense revenues, since some of these websites are AdSense partners.

[[User:Rjlabs|Rjlabs]] ([[User talk:Rjlabs|talk]]) 01:36, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

:[[User:Rjlabs|Rjlabs]], I have not read the bulk of your note above - sorry, but it's quite long and well past my working hours. But I saw your note on the other page and read the line "Seems odd the synthesis from the community, as compiled by the foundation, is not accessible" and wanted to let you know that the file link is red because it does not exist yet. It has not yet been uploaded. Its upload is imminent. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 01:43, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

:{{u|Rjlabs}}, to be clear, prior to the release of the 2015-16 Annual Plan I had last been at the WMF offices in San Francisco in November 2014 at the FDC meeting: in other words, long before the 2015-16 annual plan had even been started. There is no temporal relationship between my attendance at the FDC meeting and my review of the 2015-16 annual plan. The FDC had met in May 2015, but we did it in Berlin, not San Francisco. Quite honestly, looking at the work the [Search and] Discovery team has done since the budget was approved, it looks like most of it is entirely within what I'd consider reasonable scope for the WMF to do. Several of its activities have been in areas that have long needed improvement or been community requested (e.g., internal search improvements, better maps functions), and others have been more experimental. Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea to put a lot of smart people in the room together; my issue wasn't so much with the concept as the lack of explanation of what they were supposed to be doing. As it turns out, it sounds as though the Discovery team went out there and found useful objectives to pursue absent the big bucks that had originally been envisioned to do things that it seems not even the team itself really thought was such a good idea. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker|talk]]) 01:54, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
::{{u|Rjlabs}}, the [[:c:File:2016 Strategic Approaches Report.pdf|report]] was uploaded on Friday - it's now linked in the sidebar. [[User:PEarley (WMF)|Patrick Earley (WMF)]] ([[User talk:PEarley (WMF)|talk]]) 15:55, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}

== Goal proposal for strategic priority 1: usability testing for search ==

I recommend usability experiments where ordinary people recruited through, e.g. neighborhood postbill flyers or Craigslist gigs ads, come in to some office without any Wikimedia or Wikipedia branding (but with usability studies branding), are offered payment for their agreement to be observed answering questions requiring general reference information with a web browser on low-end phones, laptops, and tablets, with their behavior analyzed to identify deficiencies in Wikimedia search and default search engines' interface with Wikimedia projects.

Jimbo Wales wrote, "I strongly support usability experiments with various classes or categories of users on a variety of devices. We have a poor understanding, mostly anecdotal and not sufficiently systematic, about how people find us, what they are looking for when they do, and also importantly how they fail to find us when they are looking for what we provide," on his talk page 15:55, 21 February 2016 (UTC).

[[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 15:59, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Johnbod]] is involved is something like this, I think, with Wellcome Trust: testing how people find medical information (on desktop, only). --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 00:02, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
: {{ping|EllenCT}} Thanks for your comment. The [[mw:Wikimedia_Research/Design_Research|Design Research]] team has been working to develop this area and has worked across the features directly and also to train our teams to get more direct user feedback with ordinary people. Our goal is to do this in many regions of the world to have a more representative understanding. [[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 17:22, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Wes. Yes. The Design Research team performs research sessions regularly. In general, we learn from many types of users (via a whole tool kit of methodologies) about their experience with Wiki projects, and work collaboratively with teams across Wikimedia Foundation toward producing solutions (products, services, communications, etc) to solve for the problems and needs of a wide variety of users. We are currently are planing some work with the Portals and Search teams to better understand the current experiences of users. This work is just getting started, so there will be more to come.
[https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Research/Design_Research Here] is a link where you can see some of our research. We are working on better communicating our work so it will reach a broader audience (so thinking of moving to Meta at some point). Working on it! If you have questions or want to talk with us, engage with us on the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Research/Design_Research talk page]. --[[User:ARipstra (WMF)|ARipstra (WMF)]] ([[User talk:ARipstra (WMF)|talk]]) 19:06, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposal for strategic priorities 2 and 3: staff community wishlist ==

The [[2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Results]] should be incorporated into Foundation engineering goals, and staffed with appropriate headcount. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:18, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
* {{ping|EllenCT}} the efforts are supported by the [[Community_Tech|Community Tech]] team engineering goals and they have [[2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey|selected 10 items]] to focus on over the next year. The headcount to support those wishes are provided in our annual planning process. Additional requests are reviewed by additional product audiences in collaboration with Community Tech and they also will have a focus at the [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/wikimedia-hackathon-2016-organization/ 2016 Wikimedia Hackathon]. [[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 05:32, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::{{Ping|WMoran (WMF)}} Are you satisfied that only ten were approved when nearly 40 got dozens of votes and almost a hundred were seconded? Is there an ongoing plan to repeat the survey on an annual basis? I'm concerned about the amount of effort it takes to support the visual editor and mobile interfaces on so many kinds of fragmented mobile devices and often less-than-interoperable browsers, and whether those efforts support content contributors as well as some of the moderately popular items on the wishlist would. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 15:50, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:::{{ping|EllenCT}} Ten was the initial target of what the team identified to support for now and provided [[2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey#What_about_the_other_97_proposals.3F|further detail for the other 97 proposals]]. I do believe this is a step in a good direction, something we will continue to improve on and a list all teams can continue to work on. Yes the plan is to do this on an annual basis. [[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 07:23, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
: I believe community wishes should drive all engineering teams, not just several people in one special team. --[[User:Ilya|Ilya]] ([[User talk:Ilya|talk]]) 08:43, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
:: I have mixed feelings about going that far. Foundation personnel might on occasion see issues which are not visible to the community, e.g., if a disk is about to fill up or a vulnerability is uncovered, ideally someone internal to the Foundation will know about that before anyone in the community is affected by or even aware of it. But that should be the exception rather than the rule, and I certainly agree that the Foundation should never take a stand in opposition to the community, such as happened with superprotect and the visual editor rollout fiasco. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 01:48, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposal for strategic priorities 2 and 3: rewarding contributors ==

The Foundation is prohibited from paying contributors.[https://www.eff.org/issues/cda230] Could a new organization funded by the Foundation reward contributors for achievements? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:33, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

:Hi [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]]! WMF's Community Resources team supports individuals, groups and formal organization across our movement through grants and other resources. Many organizations in our movement, including ones that receive funding from WMF, reward contributors for their achievements. This happens in a number of ways. Many of them provide recognition, merchandise or awards to contributors to recognize their efforts. Many chapters offer prizes to contest winners. In the Wiki Loves Monuments contest, some provide cameras or technical equipment to winners. Another example is Wikimedia Ukraine's Wikizghushchivka (condensed milk), delivered the editor with the most contributions in that month and the new editor with the most contributions in that month. WMF also provides scholarships to individuals to attend Wikimedia movement events. [[User:KLove (WMF)|KLove (WMF)]] ([[User talk:KLove (WMF)|talk]]) 01:10, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thank you, [[User:KLove (WMF)|Katy]]. Those are fantastic programs, but not very focused on fair compensation for the crowdsourced textual contributions from which the Foundation primarily benefits. Please note that uncompensated copyright grants can be recinded, but you [http://www.copyright.gov/docs/203.html have until 2035] to track down contributors and compensate them in return for a permanent grant with [[en:Consideration|consideration]] if you want to avoid that possibility. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 01:49, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, one could open a crowdfund to ask money to do a specific task. [[User:Evan-Amos|Evan-Amos]] did it to make photos of old videogame consoles, for example. --[[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]] ([[User talk:NaBUru38|talk]]) 00:11, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:Why not use the Foundation's extremely successful ongoing crowdfunding to support the general case through the Chapters? As long as the Foundation proper has no say in the details, they can't be accused of exerting editorial control to disrupt their Section 203 CDA safe harbor provisions. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 15:56, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

== Critical questions for strategic priorities 2 and 3: supporting the contributor community ==

(a) What public policy efforts, beyond privacy and related protections, would best support and further empower the community and contributions? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 17:25, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

: First of all, the Wikimedia community is not just contributors.
: Contributors search for information gaps, biased information and unsourced information. To fix them, they search for resources to get the correct information. That's two separate tasks.
: Non-contributors can be varied. Some share information outside the Wikimedia pages. Some encourage and teach people to collaborate.
: Each member of the community needs different things. Contributors need ways to find things to fix, and access to sources. Teachers need resources, and training too. --[[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]] ([[User talk:NaBUru38|talk]]) 00:24, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:: Quite true; it's hard to say that the Foundation is [[Mission statement|disseminating educational content "effectively and globally"]] when Foundation officials cozy up to information ministers in dictatorial countries involved with political repression and censorship. There is no doubt that needs to stop. So to add another "critical question" under the strategic planning process as stated: (b) Should the Foundation adopt a policy to explicitly oppose such oppressive and censorial regimes? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:02, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::: Hi {{Ping|User:EllenCT}}, have you had the chance to look at the WMF Public Policy team's work on the [https://policy.wikimedia.org Public Policy Portal]? It lays out five core areas of work, including anti-censorship, access to knowledge, copyright and open licenses, intermediary liability protections, as well as privacy. The Public Policy team is part of the WMF Legal team. [[User:Katherine (WMF)|Katherine (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Katherine (WMF)|talk]]) 18:24, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
:::: Yes, {{Ping|Katherine (WMF)}} and hope that coverage will increase, for example, by the Foundation showing a greater commitment with actions instead of just words, especially on the questions: (c) what are the necessary social factors to optimize access to knowledge? E.g., [http://www.foreurope.eu/fileadmin/documents/pdf/Workingpapers/WWWforEurope_WPS_no040_MS110.pdf] and (d) do those factors include active measures to reduce both political oppression and economic repression? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 20:28, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
:::: {{ping|EllenCT}} I think there is a lot of room here to grow and use the influence we now wield to make changes without spending a ton of resources (obviously some but not a ton). Obviously Privacy and related protections are a big aspect of that (and are important) but there are other areas which could be really beneficial to the mission and the community. For example copyright reform has always been a relatively important one and there has been a lot of discussion in Europe about that recently especially around the [[:w:en:Freedom_of_panorama|Freedom of Panorama]]. I know that some of the European chapters have been doing some great work on that and that our legal teams Public Policy folks have been assisting. More recently (as in last Friday I believe) a couple members of the Support & Safety team started conversations with Public Policy about online harassment as well. While we want to tackle that from multiple angles (it is almost always better to deal with it in non-legal ways first) the laws about online harassment are in really bad shape right now and trying to find some ways we can push for change there, especially since it's a high priority for other orgs too right now, could be really useful. [[User:Jalexander-WMF|Jalexander]]--[[:w:Wikimedia Foundation|WMF]] 19:18, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
::::: {{Ping|Jalexander-WMF}} Relative to freedom of panorama, which of the issues identified in [http://www.foreurope.eu/fileadmin/documents/pdf/Workingpapers/WWWforEurope_WPS_no040_MS110.pdf] do you think are more closely associated with supporting and further empowering the community and contributions? For example, those who lack shelter, food, water, electricity, or Internet are much less likely to contribute than those lacking freedom of panorama instead. How important is freedom from political oppression relative to freedom of panorama in supporting and further empowering the community and contributions? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:41, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::As an organization and movement driven by our mission, we strive to empower all people to share knowledge under a free license. Our most important tools for this are our wikis. From a perspective of public policy we want to make sure that our community and all others are able to efficiently and safely use them to participate in creating, reading and sharing knowledge.
::::::Lack of shelter and food are among many pressing issues that can prevent individuals from going online and from taking part in our projects. While these are important issues, given our limited resources, we focus on access to knowledge as an area in which we can make a socio-economic impact by empowering current users and bringing new ones to the projects. Wikipedia Zero, for instance, allows disadvantaged people, who otherwise could not afford access to Wikipedia, to learn and contribute to the project. [[User:Slaporte (WMF)|Stephen LaPorte (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Slaporte (WMF)|talk]]) 00:39, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::For the wide-ranging issues facing vast numbers of people which are already well served by other existing nonprofit charities or NGOs, I agree it would be foolhardy to try to act directly in those areas. However, the Foundation can and should endorse the best. We are surrounded by perhaps the most intelligent set of intellectuals in both relative and absolute terms ever collaborating so closely in history. We should leverage that intelligence by endorsing the best organizations with whom we share greater common causes, and communicating those endorsements widely. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 05:11, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

== Regarding knowledge quality ==
=== TLDR: ===

Presently, this document mandates the WMF to work on tools that improve the volume of "knowledge creation" and the platforms (mobile, tablet) and formats (multimedia) we use. Please make it clear that WMF will invest some of its technical resources in the building of badly needed tools to support ''knowledge quality improvement'' such as expert reviewer tools and a simplified diff so readers can see changes from the reviewed version without all the wikicode. I and others can give you more examples of what's needed but, for now, we - those working with experts, journals and institutions - need to know if you're going to support us with more than just motherhood and apple pie statements. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 23:58, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

=== Argument ===

The [https://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Movement_Strategic_Plan_Summary/Summary 2010-2015 Strategy] placed quality in its top five strategic priorities.

[https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2015_Strategy_Consultation_Report.pdf&page=37 Analysis of the 2015 Community Strategy Consultation] found that accuracy and neutrality were high on both volunteers' and readers' lists of concerns. If you add those two together and call it "reliability", reliability, a critical aspect of quality, is their chief concern.

[https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2016_Strategic_Approaches_Report.pdf&page=9 The 2016 Strategic Approaches Report Part 1] identifies "Increase content quality and timeliness by technologically enhancing our editors’ ability to create, monitor, and process content" as one of the most selected strategic approaches. Bearing in mind [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2016_Strategic_Approaches_Report.pdf&page=32 that report's caveat], {{quote|"Reach" had the most comments overall. Note: that it is first in the order of focus areas displayed, which likely impacted why this has a higher response rate. Three of the six "Reach" approaches led all other approaches in all focus areas when looking at total number of participants selecting the approach. Note: this may be related to the disproportionate number of "Reach" comments versus other focus areas.}} the actual ranking of quality and timeliness (and other "Knowledge" approaches) in the minds of respondents is probably higher than the report represents.In this Draft WMF Strategy, under [[2016_Strategy/Draft_WMF_Strategy#Our_vision_.E2.80.94_and_our_challenge|Our vision — and our challenge]], you include "quality" in {{quote|Knowledge - How can we increase the quality of knowledge on the Wikimedia projects, the diversity of formats, and the depth and breadth of coverage (especially underrepresented subjects)?}}Also in this draft, under [[2016_Strategy/Draft_WMF_Strategy#Strategic_Statement|#Strategic Statement]], in the first sentence you say you support the creation of high-quality knowledge {{quote|The Wikimedia Foundation supports the delivery of free knowledge to the world, the health and growth of the Wikimedia communities, and the creation of diverse, high-quality free knowledge.}} but then, you leave it out of the relevant bullet point, 3{{quote|We will increase and diversify knowledge by developing high-priority curation and creation tools for user needs}}

In [[2016_Strategy/Draft_WMF_Strategy#3._Increase_and_diversify_contribution_of_knowledge|the discussion of point 3]] you leave "quality" out of the two bold headings:{{quote|3. '''Increase and diversify contribution of knowledge We will increase and diversify knowledge by developing high-priority curation and creation tools for user needs.'''}} If I'm correctly understanding your language in that discussion, emphasis will be placed on providing tools that improve the volume of knowledge produced and tools that make knowledge creation using diverse platforms (mobiles and tablets) and formats (multimedia) easier, but you do not emphasise the development of tools for improving probably the most important aspect of quality - reliability. I'll remind you, reliability (neutrality and accuracy) is the chief concern of our readers and the wider volunteer community.[https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2015_Strategy_Consultation_Report.pdf&page=37]

Those of us working with academics, journals and institutions trying to improve the reliability of Wikimedia's offering need you to make tools that help experts review our articles, and tools that present versions of our articles that have achieved [[en:WP:RS|reliable source]] status in a way that is most useful to our readers, and other tools, too. Please find a form of words for the second half of this document that clearly emphasises your support for reliability improvement initiatives, and not just knowledge volume improvement and knowledge platform and format improvement. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 02:44, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
:These are good points, but to be fair, strategic priority 3 does refer to high-quality knowledge acquisition as part of its criteria when they are restated in paragraph form, and refers to quality twice in the rationale. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 14:28, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
::Higher up in the document they ask, "How can we increase the quality of knowledge on the Wikimedia projects, the diversity of formats, and the depth and breadth of coverage (especially underrepresented subjects)?" But their proposed answers do not expressly support the development of tools aimed at improving the reliability of our current corpus. Where it specifically addresses what the WMF can do, at the business end of the document - the bit that translates into action - it discusses increasing volume and something it refers to as diversity (the exact meaning of which eludes me but that I ''think'' refers to making mobiles and tablets better for editors, and possibly making multimedia features easier to deploy), but leaves out the development of technical support for improving reliability. I'd appreciate it if the authors could clarify this for me.

::What I need to know is, does this document include or exclude the possibility of the WMF developing tools to help experts review our content (such tools are sorely needed), and help us better display versions of our articles (like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dengue_fever&oldid=629402504 this version of Dengue fever]) that have passed expert review, and several other tools? If it is meant to encompass that kind of work, I'd appreciate it if the authors could make that clear in the document. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 09:49, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:::I agree with Anthonyhcole that the words do not seem to emphasize quality. I do see that the word was used once. I have no doubt that if asked, express opposition to quality but I don’t think the typical reader of this prioritization is going to come away with the impression that improving quality is high on the list of priorities. How do we make sure that support for quality is more than simply lip service?--[[User:Sphilbrick|Sphilbrick]] ([[User talk:Sphilbrick|talk]]) 15:45, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::: + emphasize quality more, yes. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 20:14, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

::::Just to clarify, the intention is that quality is part of this strategic priority. That will be present in the next iteration of the strategy. As for specific tools that will be in or out, the WMF Annual Plan (to be released by April 1) will show some of the specific plans for tools, etc. The product team is using community consultation (task boards, research, community wish lists, etc.) to determine which tools to work on and will continue adding through the year accordingly. [[User:Suzie Nussel (WMF)|Suzie Nussel (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Suzie Nussel (WMF)|talk]]) 18:42, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Suzie Nussel (WMF)}}Would you please link to these tool discussions, so others can participate. We've been waiting years too long for real tools to robustly support referencing, citations, and validation of the intext assertions that the citations are intended to underpin. We've hobbled along with Citation bot and citation templates, but they are not really intended or suited for a multilingual enterprise. They have no mechanism for archiving the referenced sources, nor for attributing specific statements to them. This gap undermines the whole concept of verifiability, especially after translated articles see subsequent edits. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 20:59, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|LeadSongDog}} the [[2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey|Community Wishlist]] has a number of items on it and an explanation of the process for selection. These items will have a focus at the [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/wikimedia-hackathon-2016-organization/ 2016 Wikimedia Hackathon] as well. We hope to run the Wishlist annually. Hope this provides a better pathway. --[[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 02:12, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|LeadSongDog}} [[User:Makyen]] made [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Ref_supports2 Template:Ref supports2]. If you hover your mouse pointer over the footnote markers in [[en:V&A Spiral]] (or over the dotted line, depending on your settings), a "tool tip" pops up telling you exactly what assertions are supported by the source. It's not much used because it isn't accessible to users of screen readers. It would be better if it ''highlighted'' the supported text, rather than duplicated it in a tool tip. The WMF should do this and make it accessible to the reading-impaired. It's essential if our readers (and even other editors) are to properly review our content. I also 100% agree with you all urls in citations should be automatically converted to links to archived versions - for the same reason. This latter seems to be being worked on at [[Community Tech/Migrate dead external links to archives/Notes]]. That proposal was number one on the community's [[2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Top_10_notes|2015 wishlist]] and the community tech team will devote some of its limited resources to it. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 12:46, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::::I'm not so concerned with the way the information is presented to the reader as I am about robustly ''and'' obviously tying assertions to sources. We often see hundreds of edits to a paragraph subsequent to the addition of a reference, often by well intentioned novices that simply don't grasp the importance of source citation. The cumulative effect is often that the text is no longer supportable by the cited source. Making the connection obvious to all will help prevent this loss of source—text integrity. The need for this is perhaps most obvious on wikipedias, but it arises on other wikis too. A common solution should be available for use everywhere, in all languages.[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 05:15, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::I can not see a general solution to this problem compatible with e.g. [[en:WP:CK]] or any of its writen or unwritten counterparts on any wikipedia. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:41, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::{{ping|EllenCT}}Sorry, I don't think I grasp your intent. The essay at [[en:WP:CK]] just clarifies [[en:WP:V]], it has no real weight of its own. Are there some wikipedias that are opposed to citing sources? We're starting to flesh out ideas on systematizing citations at [[Talk:Reliability_project]]. Further input would be welcome. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 17:50, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::Regarding: "Just to clarify, the intention is that quality is part of this strategic priority. That will be present in the next iteration of the strategy." I'm much relieved. Thank you.

:::::Regarding: "As for specific tools that will be in or out, the WMF Annual Plan (to be released by April 1) will show some of the specific plans for tools, etc," Is the annual plan development a public process, or is it being discussed internally?

:::::I follow links in discussions to this or that meta page and kind of parachute into something - like this strategy page - but I'm finding it difficult to visualise the whole short, medium and long term strategy and planning process. I fear there are important elements of it that I'm either unaware of or have misunderstood. Is there a diagram somewhere that lays all this out, [[User:Suzie Nussel (WMF)|Suzie]]? Thanks for your help. :o) --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 07:11, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

{{unindent}}While Suzie can answer some of the broader questions about the plan, I just wanted to hop in to note that the annual plan development will be a public process, [[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]]. The posting of the annual plan is the launch of the next phase of the consultation. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 14:02, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

:Thanks, [[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie]]. I know how busy you all are, and really appreciate your time. Just to clarify: regarding "The posting of the annual plan is the launch of the next phase of the consultation", will the annual plan be initially posted as a proposal (for discussion)? Thanks again. :o) --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 23:38, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
::Yes, [[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthony]]. :) Full on consultation. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 01:45, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposal for strategic priority 3: database queries supporting content quality ==

I use a [http://quarry.wmflabs.org/query/1337 lengthy, sophisticated WMFLabs Quarry query] to monitor persistent COI editing on influential economics topics which have experienced advocacy editing and tag-team behaviors to push (proven astroturfed, elsewhere) points of view which diverge from the peer reviewed secondary literature reviews and other mainstream reliable sources. Would quality benefit if the Foundation maintained a library of such queries in problem subject matter topic areas and published their results daily, and with the ability for editors to subscribe to notifications of unusual levels of editing activity in wide-ranging groups of articles? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 14:28, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
:If I've understood you, this is a great idea. You're talking about producing a continuous or daily report on topic areas (or networks of articles) that are receiving unusual levels of activity, activity that fits a pre-defined profile indicative of problematical editing, right? --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 09:55, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::Yes; thank you. Perhaps a quarterly or monthly prose report on paid and advocacy editing which has been uncovered or brought to the Foundation's attention, too. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 11:07, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposal for strategic priority 2: third-party independent evaluation of Board of Trustees' fidelity to Mission ==

Recent events have called into question the extent to which the Foundation's Board of Trustees has been acting in alignment with the Foundation's Mission and Values. An independent third party skilled in nonprofit organization performance and organizational dynamics should be hired to study the past performance of the Board and recommend possible improvements in the way Board seats are allocated, how members are nominated and elected, and how agendas and minutes are produced and communicated. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 14:36, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
:Hi EllenCT - Thanks for your comment, which I find quite interesting and thoughtful. We do work with a top governance firm who does advise us on Board practices when we have inquiries, but I understand that you are proposing something a bit more comprehensive. Of course, the majority of our Board members come directly from the Wikimedia community, which helps ensure that values and mission are discussed at the Board meetings. I would be interested in hearing how you might reconstitute the Board to ensure alignment with the Foundation's Mission and Values. I have heard suggestions that we should reserve a seat or two to represent communities from other parts of the world (which we sometimes call the "Global South"). IMHO, we do need trustees with strong governance experience, so I personally am a supporter of the four self-selected Board seats, which the Board is free to fill with such expertise, an expertise which is particularly necessary for managing a $60+ million non-profit with a global mission. Thanks again for taking the time to comment. Much appreciated. [[User:GeoffBrigham (WMF)|GeoffBrigham (WMF)]] ([[User talk:GeoffBrigham (WMF)|talk]]) 22:42, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
::You're welcome, Geoff. These questions are very difficult and extremely influential in determining organizational outcomes and avoiding disfunction, as you can see by reading [http://www.blueavocado.org/content/ditch-your-board-composition-matrix the article and comments here.] I don't have the expertise necessary to make a recommendation with which I would be satisfied, and even though I've only been a Wikipedian editor for years and have served in no other capacity, I don't think I can be objective enough. And I certainly don't think any current or former paid employee of the Foundation or chapter or current or former Foundation or chapter board member can possibly be free from the conflicts of interest involved in making such recommendations. Thank goodness there are organizations which specialize in making them, such as [https://www.aktadvisors.com/nonprofit-board-governance/] and [http://www.americanphilanthropic.com/services/foundation-services/ensure-fidelity-to-donor-intent/]. I would start by compiling a more comprehensive list of such organizations, asking them for references and a work quotation, and going with the most reputable within a reasonable price range.
::However, having said all that, I think there is no question that Board agendas should be published a week in advance of meetings and that minutes should be published no later than a week afterward. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 20:43, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

== Conceptual problem #1 "creation of knowledge" ==

There are several references to "creation of knowledge" and variants - you can search for "creation" to find most of them. At least in Wikipedia, we absolutely do not '''create''' knowledge. Absolutely do not. Per [[en:WP:NOT]], what we do is create articles that provide a "summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject". If the WMF understands that it, or the editing communities, "create knowledge", this is a huge conceptual error that it needs to correct. People in the real world create knowledge - they do research in the sciences and humanities and publish it, and other members of the scholarly and scientific communities digest that and determine what is "accepted knowledge" and we summarize that. "Creating knowledge" in Wikipedia is barred by [[en:WP:OR]]. It is just not what we are ''about''.

To the extent that the WMF is trying to design anything that is about "creating knowledge", or, really importantly, if WMF is not taking into account the crucial activities carried out by the editing community in digesting the vast amounts of literature out there, determining what is and is not "accepted knowledge", and summarizing it, so that we can present "summaries of accepted knowledge" to our users, you are are making a dramatic error, with serious consequences. Would be happy to discuss this. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 03:57, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:I agree this is a crucial issue, but suspect it has more to do with the unfamiliarity of the strategic planning facilitator with the details of Wikipedia than any sort of a conscious decision to reject the WP:NOR pillar. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 11:09, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:Also, as you note, "at least in Wikipedia" is important. :) Wikinews and Wikivoyage, to name just two, view "original research" very differently. However, given that some of our projects are dedicated to curation, I'd imagine "creation of knowledge resources" would be more accurate, since such resources are created as much by curation as they are original research. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 16:50, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for your reply, Maggie! As WP is the flagship (as I understand it), it would be useful if the challenges of content creation in WP were more thoughtfully worked into this. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 19:16, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

::: I create videos of events and interviews. Writing about history is also creating. --[[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]] ([[User talk:NaBUru38|talk]]) 00:28, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::::again I am talking about Wikipedia. We do not create knowledge in Wikipedia. we summarize accepted knowledge. these are radically different things. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 06:31, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::::: Nor do we "discover" new knowledge. I suppose those searching Wikipedia may discover existing knowledge, of which they were previously unaware. [[User:Wbm1058|Wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 18:07, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::: I agree with you. I think we over use the word knowledge and sometimes use it incorrectly. --[[User:Lgruwell-WMF|Lgruwell-WMF]] ([[User talk:Lgruwell-WMF|talk]]) 18:45, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

== Conceptual problem #2 - metrics driven ==

There is a bunch of stuff in here about surveying consumers and measuring what they do, and letting the results drive what you do, in a big picture way. That sounds lovely and data-driven etc, but I want to remind you that the reason that TV news in the US is so abysmal, is... that this is what their users want. Yes the networks are driven by profit, but they get profit by getting more viewers, and they get more viewers by giving viewers what they want; they carefully measure whether people are watching, or not, and they try to figure out why. This sounds exactly like what you intend to do, and I reckon the results will be the same. (See [http://niemanreports.org/articles/the-transformation-of-network-news/ here] for example - what people want, is entertainment; yes even from their news). Yes we want to be relevant, but no, we do not want to devolve into entertainment or sound bites. What is built into your metrics program ''strategically'' to deal with this? It is a challenge faced by people who want to deliver knowledge everywhere. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 04:16, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

:Yes but: If you define "reliable" as "neutral and accurate", the readership and the wider volunteer community (who responded to the 2015 community consultation) [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2015_Strategy_Consultation_Report.pdf&page=37 overwhelmingly cited reliability] as their chief concern, ahead of all other concerns (such as improved mobile access and multi-media display). So, while I take your point we need to be wary of populism, I see nothing in this document that seriously responds to the chief concern of our readership. The solutions hinted at in this document are aimed at increasing volume and making editing easier. So, I don't think you need to worry that this process is too responsive to the expressed wishes of our readership. Their main concern is being ignored. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 10:19, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::{{u|Anthonyhcole}} That's bitter. But yes, I recommend you open a thread on reliability. That is something I think the WMF could help with - like the bots they have created to identify vandalism. I agree it would be interesting to see what kind of tools they could build that would help us detect additions of unreliable content. I know I have "filters" I use to identify promotional editing and I wonder if they could be translated to a bot....[[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 19:15, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::which i actually just proposed: [[Grants:IdeaLab/Bot_to_detect_and_tag_advocacy_editing]] [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 00:45, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
:::Bitter?!?! Mmm. OK. Probably. I have started a thread on reliability [[#Regarding knowledge quality|above]]. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 00:55, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
:::: :) So you did. sorry for not picking up on that - it was obvious and i missed it. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 20:12, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

== Conceptual problem #3 - no minding of the gap between WMF and the communities ==

Pretty much the entire second item here, "Increase volunteer retention and engagement" is hard for me to understand on any level and much of the clueful response you received in the consultation phase said the same. The editing communities are self-governing with respect to content and behavior, and nothing - literally nothing - in this document reflects the challenge that poses to the WMF to affect any change in culture, attracting editors, or retaining editors.

What I do find in this section, is a lot of hand-wavy stuff that sounds great but is so vague that I cannot imagine tactics to carry any of it out. This should be re-thought and re-written so that it takes account the gaps between the WMF and the various communities and lays out actual strategies that the WMF can carry out in light of those gaps, and that respects the autonomy of the communities with respect to content and behavior. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 04:39, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

:Hello, [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]]. This was the top approach chosen by community during consultation in this area - I assume that most (or even perhaps all) of the users who engaged and chose that option were clueful. We have programs engineered towards achieving these goals already, including for a few examples education program work, volunteer developer outreach and INSPIRE campaigns focused in such areas. So there is work we can and already do in this area - the call is to prioritize it. This particular document is a high level review of strategy. The tactics are being put together as this conversation evolves and will be discussed in our draft annual plan, to be released on April 1st. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 15:56, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for your reply, Maggie. The "consultation" was somewhat problematic - as you know it was truncated, and as several people commented, the limited range of things to respond to made it difficult - you all had already baked in #2 being a top priority. And you did get feedback along the lines I have written here.
:: In my experience as a Wikipedia editor, I find that overwhelmingly two things determine how long somebody stays - how aware they are there is a lot to learn about how to create quality content (how teachable they are) and how aligned they actually are with the mission (do they really want to help summarize accepted knowledge for the public good according to the policies and guidelines established by the community, or are they here to promote or denigrate something?) If they are teachable and are really here to build an encyclopedia, their experience will generally be OK. They generally need a lot of mentoring from other editors, which happens casually, but they generally stick around. People who are unwilling/unable to learn, or who are [[en:WP:NOTHERE]], generally create a lot of drama and suck up volunteer time, distracting them from the work of building content. I don't understand how WMF can affect any of that.
::My experience of education program work, is that we get waves of students coming to articles and who start editing directly (and quite often aggressively, because it is not uncommon that students view their grade as depending on getting some content into Wikipedia), who require a ton of ''volunteer time and effort'' to actually mentor. See above, with regard to the factors that drive whether they stick around or not.
:: I don't understand how WMF believes it can affect these intra-community things. I acknowledge that there is a lot I don't know. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 19:12, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

:::Hi, [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]]. :) As you know, people were offered 6 built-in and an additional free comment input for each area, which gives a fair amount of room for diverse opinions. We did receive different levels of support (and opposition) for different propositions. I think that's to be expected. The needs of different projects and different communities across the world are pretty diverse; for that matter, the needs and wishes of contributors even within English Wikipedia are pretty diverse. It seems we agree that mentorship is important. The [[Research:Teahouse|Tea House]] is an example of a [[Research:Teahouse long term new editor retention|program that seems to have positively impacted engagement]]. (And has now spread beyond the EnWP pilot to other projects.) (In terms of the [[:outreach:Education|education program]], it's [[:outreach:Education/Countries|global]]; impact has varied according to region, although I'm not best positioned to discuss their metrics.) But what a developed community like EnWP needs may differ from what growing communities may need, and specialized communities (like OTRS volunteers or tool maintainers) have still different requirements. Engagement and re-engagement measures can differ accordingly. I could well imagine such efforts involving supporting the work of affiliates, community event organizers (such as those who coordinate GLAM events or editathons), grantees, key functionary groups (like ArbComs and OmbCom), and volunteer tool developers and coders once we get to the tactical level in the annual plan. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 20:53, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::::I see. I didn't know the origins of the Tea House (described [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-05-14/WikiProject_report here]). That is really interesting - a great idea that emerged in dialogue between a motivated GLAM-supported volunteer and folks at the WMF. Hm! And I hear you on there being different needs in different communities. I am sorry but i don't know what your last sentence means. What would "efforts involving supporting...ArbComs" possibly look like? thanks. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 23:08, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::For one example (which may or may not wind up a tactic), [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]], there have been calls to support ArbComs with training on dealing with harassment complaints, which could increase Arb engagement and provide better avenues of help with issues for community members. For another, there have been requests to help arbitration committees across projects communicate and share best practices. There may be other approaches as well that can help them function in a way that could improve the environment on individual projects where they operate. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 23:14, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::Interesting. Issues of harassment are notoriously difficult (like the Lightbreather case, which was widely misunderstood in the media) and Arbcom cannot make policy, but rather has to follow it, including the OUTING portion of the harassment policy. Would harassment training of arbcom members improve gender gap issues or harassment more generally? Interesting question.
::::::Your answers here have been interesting and I appreciate your time, and have learned a bunch. So thanks! Each thing that you mentioned does "mind the gap" and relies on engagement of the community in conception and execution. The description in the strategy does not express that enough in my view. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 00:43, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

== The role of the Foundation ==

* "Building a better understanding of our users’ needs is critical before the Foundation makes important decisions on solving readership and contribution challenges"
* "The Foundation will experiment with statistically significant ways of increasing volunteer retention and engagement"

Hello, I disagree with that. The Foundation must ''support the community'' to "understand the users' needs" to "make decisions on solving participation issues", "increasing volunteer retention and engagement" and so on. The Foundation should never do those things in our place. --[[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]] ([[User talk:NaBUru38|talk]]) 23:55, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
:Hello, [[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]]. The Wikimedia Foundation definitely must support community initiatives and does - through the grant program, quite directly, but in other areas of engagement as well. I agree that the Foundation should not be making important decisions on solving major problems alone; I think we need to improve that language to reflect that. I thank you for calling it out. (''Edited to add: the whole sentence, for context is "Participants indicated that building a better understanding of our users’ needs is critical before the Foundation makes important decisions on solving readership and contribution challenges."'') That said, we do have programs and researchers in the WMF as well who will be exploring these issues. Understanding users' needs and experimenting with ways of increasing volunteer retention and engagement are both important parts of meeting the strategy recommendations of [[2016 Strategy/Community consultation|the last consultation]] (linked for the benefit of others, as I know you participated there and are quite well aware of where it is :)). --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 12:59, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::The sentence [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=2016_Strategy%2FDraft_WMF_Strategy&type=revision&diff=15426150&oldid=15420267 has been edited to add] "in consultation with community". --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 13:58, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

== Who authored this draft? ==

I see [[User:Kbrown (WMF)]] posted it and [[User:Mdennis (WMF)]] and [[User:GeoffBrigham (WMF)]] are responding, but did you author it Karen, Maggie and Geoff? It would be good to discuss this with the people who put the thinking into it. If that's you, Karen, Maggie and Geoff, that's great. But I'd like to know. (Who is the strategic planning facilitator mentioned above?) --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 03:17, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:This draft is collaborative, [[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]]. :) I worked on it; Geoff worked on it; our strategic planning facilitator (Suzie Nussel) worked on it; many others contributed as well. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 12:36, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks, Maggie. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 23:00, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

== What's new? ==

How is this new strategy different from what WMF claimed as their strategy all the years before? I see new wordings, but no new ideas. And just following the numbers in the community survey seems to me a sign of intellectual laziness or a lack of imagination. Community input is supposed to give the WMF food for thought, but you are the ones who are expected to think for your self. Or as Steve Jobs said: How are the customers to know what they want until we give it to them? --[[User:H-stt|h-stt]] [[User_talk:H-stt|!?]] 17:26, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
: I think you raise a fair point. We are developing an organizational strategy here, which is different from a product strategy, though. I am asking myself: Does this give the product and community teams the general direction they need to make decisions about their work? Is this encouraging or hampering innovation? Are we suggesting to staff that they "stay the course" or innovate in this? --[[User:Lgruwell-WMF|Lgruwell-WMF]] ([[User talk:Lgruwell-WMF|talk]]) 18:20, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
::It would be interesting to hear more about how [[innovation]] fits into the draft Strategy. What direction do you see it taking? [[User:Rogol Domedonfors|Rogol Domedonfors]] ([[User talk:Rogol Domedonfors|talk]]) 21:15, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
:::The community wishlist has lots of new things on it. There are several ongoing mission components I would rather see be done more successfully or completely than adding novelty for its own sake. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:36, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

: The new interim executive director for the WMF is the former chief communications officer. I guess that will lead to a big shift in WMF Strategy and I like that decision of the board a lot. --[[User:Molarus|Molarus]] ([[User talk:Molarus|talk]]) 14:22, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
::agree--[[User:Ozzie10aaaa|Ozzie10aaaa]] ([[User talk:Ozzie10aaaa|talk]]) 18:26, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
::: Hi {{Ping|Molarus|Ozzie10aaaa}}, nice to meet you. This strategy is meant to last us around 18 months, to take us through this year's annual plan and the transition period until we have a new permanent ED. This proposed strategy should give us direction about how to strengthen core functions at the Foundation: to give us focus on serving critical community needs, direction on the importance of reaching new readers, and recognize the importance of improving the quality and diversity of the information (knowledge) available on the projects. I don't expect we'll deviate significantly from the approaches laid out here during the transition period, but I expect we'll work on improving tactics and approaches, for example: the way we communicate and work with the community. I also think there are things about the process that can be improved for when we revisit strategy under a new, permanent ED. [[User:Katherine (WMF)|Katherine (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Katherine (WMF)|talk]]) 17:14, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
:::: The new cross-wiki notification informed me about this posting, a game changer in my view. --[[User:Molarus|Molarus]] ([[User talk:Molarus|talk]]) 18:05, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

== (Moved to [[Grants:IdeaLab/Search recent changes|IdeaLab: Search recent changes]]) ==
: Was "Brainstorming for strategic priority 1: search recent changes"

How about a search engine for the most recent month of recent changes? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:43, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

If this would be useful, would it be more useful with the full text of diffs, or only the added, removed, or changed text without context such as usernames and dates? Should those each be selectable options? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 20:38, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Moved to [[Grants:IdeaLab/Search recent changes]]. I am willing to advise ''if the Foundation engineering staff doesn't want to do it'' and someone else is interested in applying for a grant to do this. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 20:25, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

==Risk mitigation==
I agree with a large portion of this plan and would like to thank the WMF staff who authored this draft. Most of the issues have already been pointed out. As usual, problems mostly arise in implementation and I anticipate the annual plan which details this and the metrics used to quantify success. I feel there is insufficient detail about mitigating the risk that comes with expanding reach and diversity. Improving admin tools isn't sufficient, shortcomings in software and reach have the unintended and beneficial side-effect of preventing low-quality or unwanted content from hitting our projects in the first place.

*Engaging new readers and contributors from countries and communities with low Wikimedia awareness and use.
*Improving outreach to new potential volunteers across diverse contribution areas
*Improving retention rates of ... new contributors
:*A look at a random article about an Indian village on en.wp or the new pages feed clearly demonstrates a poor (or malicious) understanding of what the purposes of Wikimedia projects are, especially in Global South countries. Some of this comes about from not knowing (or caring) what an encyclopedia is, some from culture. How do you plan on mitigating the risk that these efforts will result in large quantities of low-quality or out of scope (and hence of dubious educational value) content being "contributed" to Wikimedia projects?

*We want to ... make engaging with Wikimedia easy and intuitive, and in turn increase the volume and diversity of knowledge on our projects.
:*Creating quality free content requires clue and effort. Technical barriers to contributing serve, to some extent, to deter those who lack sufficient competence and/or aren't here to improve our content and reduce the impact they have on our projects. What are you going to do to replace these effects? Examples: [[mw:Mobile design/Uploads|mobile upload copyvio and crap flood]], cross-wiki upload means you have to go to Commons and nominate images for deletion after deleting the spam page on Wikipedia that they are used on.

*Improving mobile engagement and contribution.
:*You're going to find it difficult to circumvent the fundamental limitations of the platform -- phones are (at best) mediocre at all means of making quality contributions to Wikimedia projects, whether it be addition of text or uploading images/video/sound. How will you ensure that mobile contributions meet minimum quality standards (see above)?

I'm asking this because the WMF has been historically woeful at promptly rolling back non-performing programs and features, resulting in a lot more damage than need be. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 04:24, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposals for strategic priority 2: stop storing browsing histories and relying on compromised hardware ==

Recently, it came to light that [[Research:Characterizing Wikipedia Reader Behaviour]] has been storing readers' browsing histories in ways which can cause them to be made available to international law enforcement, sysadmins, researchers who [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/WMF_VolunteerMemorandumofUnderstanding.pdf do not appear to be bound by published effective, enforceable, or permanent terms to protect reader privacy,] and those who may have compromised Wikimedia servers. [[User:LZia (WMF)]] was unable or unwilling to answer the question, "How long do you store browsing histories?"[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_205&oldid=709465902#Seriously_displeased_about_the_new_survey...] ([https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Survey_Privacy_Statement_for_Schema_Revision_15266417 90 days?]) Former Foundation CFO [[User:GByrd (WMF)]] was [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GByrd_(WMF)&oldid=13967521 unable to answer] whether Foundation servers are vulnerable to the exploits described in e.g. [http://resources.infosecinstitute.com/nsa-bios-backdoor-god-mode-malware-deitybounce/], [http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/02/how-hackers-could-attack-hard-drives-to-create-a-pervasive-backdoor/], or [http://www.computerworld.com/article/2474275/cybercrime-hacking/17-exploits-the-nsa-uses-to-hack-pcs--routers-and-servers-for-surveillance.html]. This presents a substantial life-threatening risk to those under regimes practicing political oppression.

If it is necessary to store histories of readers' activity, opt-in informed consent should be obtained, per established human subject experiment ethics standards. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:07, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

: Hi [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]]. Thank you for your comment and sorry for the delay on my end for responding. I did not receive a notification for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_205&oldid=709465902#Seriously_displeased_about_the_new_survey... your earlier comment] and I didn't see it until you pinged me here. I'd like to share with you some of my thoughts and responses, as a researcher who shares similar concerns to yours:
* The intermediate data generated for this research is stored in the same way we store and handle webrequest logs. I want to emphasize that the data for this research is not stored in a new way.
* The browsing history data generated for this research can be built by anyone who gains access to webrequest logs and knows how to write code and run it, i.e., the fact that we are building the traces does not put the user in a riskier situation than if we would not build the traces. The raw data and the technology for building traces is there. If someone gets access to the raw data, they can create those traces themselves.
* Anyone who has access to the data will have to sign a non-disclosure agreement as well as the MOU. Even for seeing intermediate analysis and plots that may include PII information one will need to sign an NDA and MOU. If you see someone on the project list who does not have a signed NDA with us, that person does not have access to raw data or intermediate data that may contain PII. I personally take this very seriously, both because legally I'm obliged to do so but also because I do believe we are working with sensitive data that requires even more care and attention.
* Re the question of how long the data is kept: webrequest logs are kept for 60 days. The privacy policy allows us to keep them for up to 90 days. The browsing traces data that we generate for this research should be kept in a way that is compliant with our privacy policy. This means that beyond 90 days, the data needs to be anonymized or aggregated unless we request an exemption from the privacy policy (which we haven't).
* I would really appreciate to continue to talk with you about the opt-in/opt-out mechanisms. Myself and many others in the Foundation do believe that the user (reader or editor) should have more control over the data he/she shares with us. We need to learn about the trade-offs and have informed conversations going forward.
I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have other questions and/or comments. --[[User:LZia (WMF)|LZia (WMF)]] ([[User talk:LZia (WMF)|talk]]) 17:07, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
::Hi @EllenCT. Thank you for raising these concerns. Adding onto Leila's thoughts above:

::We take serious measures to safeguard the nonpublic personal information of Wikimedia users. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as completely secure data transmission or storage, so like other sites, we can't guarantee that our security will not be breached (by technical measures or through violation of our policies and procedures). However, we do our best to prevent that. Wikimedia Foundation staff and contractors, as well as researchers and volunteers, who have access to this data sign agreements with confidentiality obligations with the Foundation. The MOU you linked to actually refers to one such agreement: "...you will sign a separate Volunteer Access, Confidentiality and Contributions Agreement before you receive access to any nonpublic personal information". Additionally, we have stringent policies and procedures in place when handling third-party requests for nonpublic user information, including those from domestic or international law enforcement. You can read more in our [[wmf:Requests_for_user_information_procedures_%26_guidelines|Requests for User Information Procedures and Guidelines]]. We [https://transparency.wikimedia.org/privacy.html push back] against requests that we believe to be overbroad or unlawful, we [[wmf:Privacy_policy#For_Legal_Reasons|inform affected users]] of such requests when we are able, and we offer support in the form of legal defense funding when appropriate through our [[wmf:Legal_Fees_Assistance_Program|legal fees assistance program]] and our [[m:Legal_Policies#Defense_of_Contributors|defense of contributors program]]. We also [http://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/06/12/securing-wikimedia-sites-with-https/ implemented HTTPS by default] on all of the Wikimedia sites and [http://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/ launched a legal challenge] against the NSA's upstream surveillance program to defend privacy and free expression.

::Regarding your concerns about data retention, the [[wmf:Survey_Privacy_Statement_for_Schema_Revision_15266417|privacy statement]] you linked to that is associated with this research states the following:
:::''Personally identifying information (if any) will be deleted within 90 days. Some types of raw nonpublic data, such as IP addresses or user-agent information, will be aggregated, anonymized, or deleted within 90 days. Certain types of non-personally identifying information and aggregated or anonymized information may be kept indefinitely.''
::This retention practice is in line with our standard [[m:Data_retention_guidelines|data retention guidelines]]. As Leila noted, the survey conducted for this research has not altered previous browsing data collection or retention periods and we frequently delete or anonymize data sooner than 90 days when possible.

::We hope this information helps. Please let us know if there is additional information we can provide or if you have suggestions as to how to further improve our practices in this regard. [[User:Mpaulson (WMF)|Mpaulson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mpaulson (WMF)|talk]]) 19:50, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

:::Thank you, {{Ping|LZia (WMF)}} and {{Ping|Mpaulson (WMF)}} Even if you anonymized the data before it was first stored in RAM, let alone disk or logs to be shipped out of nominal Foundation control, that would not be sufficient because, for example see [[en:AOL search data leak]]. Opt-in with informed consent needs be obtained prior to the storage of reader data. If you have any reason to believe that established ethical standards in human subject research support a different conclusion, please bring it to my attention.
:::Will you please publish the non-disclosure agreement so that the term and conditions are transparent, and can be evaluated by those of us who wish to consider the term and conditions when deciding how to use Foundation services?
:::Also, would you please identify which Foundation personnel tasked with decisions about this research are affiliated with the institution sponsoring and benefiting from it? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:23, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
::::[[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]], I'm not sure if I'm following your last question. Could you expand on what you mean and are referring to? --[[User:LZia (WMF)|LZia (WMF)]] ([[User talk:LZia (WMF)|talk]]) 23:54, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::{{Ping|LZia (WMF)}} if Foundation personnel responsible for research involving the most sensitive personally identifying information of readers, the privacy of that data, or the the term and conditions of the agreements governing its distribution, also hold subordinate positions at any institution funding the research or benefitting from it, does that present the appearance of a conflict of interest? Would that question be more appropriate for an independent third party? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:34, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::{{Ping|EllenCT}} I think I understand where your concerns are coming from (the extreme scenario being a corporation paying WMF to crunch private data, to support, say, user profiling or surveillance). We strive to document as transparently as we can our [[:mw:Wikimedia Research/Formal collaborations|formal collaborations]], the process behind it and the full credentials of our collaborators. Researchers we work with have a long-standing record of scientific expertise in the respective field and on the specific subject matter of each collaboration. Each proposed collaboration is vetted by myself as director of the Research department and by a C-level, before an NDA is signed. We also spent a significant amount of effort in collaboration with the WMF Legal team to produce a [[:wmf:Open access policy|legal framework]] for such collaborations to ensure that their output (results, scholarly publications, non-private data and code) be made immediately available to the public without any embargo and under free licenses. If you look at the history behind each collaboration in [[:mw:Wikimedia Research/Formal collaborations|this list]], you will definitely find that we have a personal and institutional history of joint work with these teams: if there is any actual conflict of interest, each staffer involved is expected to disclose it, per WMF policy. Hope this addresses your concerns, if you have questions about any individual collaboration or project I'd be happy to address them.--[[User:Dario (WMF)|Dario (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Dario (WMF)|talk]]) 21:58, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::{{Ping|Dario (WMF)}} thank you. An example question might be, under what conditions might the term of the nondisclosure agreements end? Let's take this back up during the discussion of the annual plan. Have an excellent weekend! [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 01:14, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::EllenCT I have been watching your conversation here without commenting but in my view you are drilling way, way down into stuff that is sub-tactical, even. This is a high level strategy discussion. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 19:38, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::::I maintain that transparency of the actual terms and conditions protecting the privacy of reader data from government abuses and e.g. potential extortion is a completely legitimate strategic goal for protecting the readership community. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:25, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

== Exact deadline? ==

Do we have until midnight anywhere on the planet, as has been the case in the past? Or is there an earlier deadline for comments? -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete F]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 17:00, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|Peteforsyth}}, I'm in charge of closing it, and I'll be swapping out templates and closing up shop around 6pm my time (US East Coast, currently UTC -04:00). I don't intend to lock the talk page or anything (barring sudden vandalism emergency), so if you're mid-thought at that point you won't be cut off, and if a comment or two slips in just past the wire, so be it. Just be sure you understand that anything that comes in substantially past the time I close this may not be read (or at least, read in a timely manner) by the staff who have been reading/commenting here thus far. [[User:Kbrown (WMF)|Kbrown (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Kbrown (WMF)|talk]]) 19:06, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

== Thumbs up ==

I regret that I have not had time to review this in great depth, but I am very impressed with what I see. I feel that it captures the ideas I was trying to convey in [//wikistrategies.net/wikimedia-needs-trustee/ this blog post], and others have been urging throughout recent years. Understanding and engaging effectively with the various social dynamics in our movement should be of paramount importance -- and I am pleasantly surprised to see that represented here. It is a welcome change, and I strongly support the broad theme. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete F]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 22:01, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
:Thank you, [[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]. :) We will be posting the draft annual plan, with tactics, on or before April 1st, and I hope you will provide input to help us in keeping to the best directions. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 22:03, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia Foundation/2016/Draft

2016-03-18T05:15:07Z

LeadSongDog: /* Argument */r

<noinclude>
{{TNT|TalkInAnyLanguage}}
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{| style="border:1px solid #AAA; background:#f9f9f9; width:100%; margin:0 auto 1em auto; padding:.2em;"
|style="width:40px"|
|style="text-align:center;"| '''This [[2016_Strategy/Draft_WMF_Strategy|consultation]] is now open and will be open for comments until March 18th.'''
|}

== Community files not accessible? Even to read? ==
:Not sure the issues discussed below at some length qualify for the status of ''issue fixed''? (See in the green bar below to the right [show] for more info.) ...Recent WMF executive director turnover (Lila Tretikov), handling of the special $250,000 Knight Foundation grant, Knowledge Engine / Search and Discovery initiative, Internal Control irregularities around community funds dissemination, (Funds Dissemination Committee) and plans for head-to-head competition with Google on search services clearly rise to ''strategic level'' issues. Just trying to cover them up is not the best way to plan to move the ball ahead in the upcoming year. None are discussed in the synthesis file posted yet all issues were well known ahead of that. [[User:Rjlabs|Rjlabs]] ([[User talk:Rjlabs|talk]]) 22:37, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::I've tried to suggest one way the Knowledge Engine / Search and Discovery effort can pivot to cooperate with the default search engines instead of competing with them below. This talk page will be used to create the synthesis and critical questions. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 13:38, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
::A Knowledge Engine is not a specific project in the current strategy. We do have ongoing work with the search function which is described at the Discovery page on MediaWiki, but there are no plans for head-to-head competition with Google on search services or anything else. You can keep up with the work planned on improving search at the MediaWiki [[mw:Wikimedia_Discovery|Discovery]] page. Our strategic focuses are set out in this document, but those strategic focuses are not the only work we will be doing - they are our areas of greatest focus. All of our planned work will be detailed in the Annual Plan we will release on or by April 1. [[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 18:53, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|Rjlabs}}, I'm the one who collapsed the section you wrote. I didn't do it to hide anything, or to imply that the Knowledge Engine situation/Lila situation was "fixed"; rather, I collapsed it because, based on how I understood what you wrote, your post seemed to be based on your feeling that the synthesis files being redlinked/inaccessible was a symptom of a coverup. Since that issue was fixed when the first file was uploaded and the second marked as "coming soon," and since this section was extremely long and posted well before the draft strategy was posted, it seemed reasonable to collapse it. If you'd like to discuss the issue of WMF/community relations in the context of the draft strategy, that seems like a perfectly reasonable topic for this page; I would suggest you read through the draft strategy if you haven't already done so, and then start a new section on this page to discuss your take. I say "start a new section" not because I'm saying you're not allowed to use this one or anything, but just because the heading of this section is about a different issue and is pretty far up on the page; starting a new section with a more relevant header is likely to get your thoughts reads by more people checking in on this page's discussions. [[User:Kbrown (WMF)|Kbrown (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Kbrown (WMF)|talk]]) 19:04, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

:{{collapse top|1=Issue fixed, collapsing for ease of scrolling [[User:Kbrown (WMF)|Kbrown (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Kbrown (WMF)|talk]]) 14:27, 4 March 2016 (UTC)}}
:''Unauthorized. You do not have permission to upload this file, for the following reason: The action you have requested is limited to users in one of the groups: Administrators, Uploaders.''

[[File:Strategic approaches synthesis (2016)]] 
[[File:Critical question synthesis (2016)]]
.
Seems odd the synthesis from the community, as compiled by the foundation, is not accessible.

<nowiki>***</nowiki>

Community (volunteers) / Foundation (paid staff & unpaid trustee/directors) relations seem exceptionally strained at the moment. One heated area appears to be a large financial commitment to a program called [[Knowledge_Engine|Knowledge Engine]] being developed by a new, well funded engineering team housed at Foundation headquarters. [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Discovery Search and Discovery]

R&D efforts are supposed to start with the ''Annual Plan'' (including objectives) which is then implemented through an ''Annual Plan Grants Program.'' The actual individual grants are to be approved by a nine person [[Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee|''Funds Dissemination Committee'']]

[[User:Risker|Anne Clin (Risker)]] from Canada, a Foundation appointed member the ''Funds Dissemination Committee'' visited Foundation headquarters and on 30 May 2015 noted:

:''Search and Discovery, a new team, seems to be extraordinarily well-staffed with a disproportionate number of engineers at the same time as other areas seem to be wanting for them. I don't see "fix search" in the Call to Action document'' [a digest of annual plan objectives]; ''even if it fell into the heading "Improve technology and execution", this seems like an abnormally large concentration of the top WMF'' [Foundation] ''Engineering minds to be focusing on a topic that didn't even rate its own mention in the CtA.'' [call to action section of the Annual Plan]. ''More explanation of why Search and Discovery has suddenly become such a major focus is required to assess whether this is appropriate resourcing.''

Apparently, unknown to the Community (volunteers and financial contributors), the Foundation embarked on a substantial project on its own. It accepted grant money that was not administered by the duly appointed and elected nine member ''Funds Dissemination Committee''.

The [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunkworks_project Skunkworks project] called ''Knowledge Engine'' project is best described succinctly in a paragraph out of the [http://knightfoundation.org/grants/201551260/ September, 9 2015 Grant awarded by the Knight Foundation for $250,000] available at [https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/File:Knowledge_engine_grant_agreement.pdf#file Knight agreement]:

:''Knowledge Engine By Wikipedia will democratize the discovery of media, news and information - it will make the Internet's most relevant information more accessible and openly curated, and it will create an open data engine that's completely free of commercial interests. Today, commercial search engines dominate search-engine use of the Internet, and they're employing proprietary technologies to consolidate channels of access to the Internet's knowledge and information. Their algorithms obscure the way the Internet's information is collected and displayed. Knowledge Engine by Wikipedia upends this commercial structure by emphasizing six key areas: 1) Public curation mechanisms for quality; 2) Transparency, telling users exactly how the information originated; 3) Open data access to metadata, giving users the exact date source of the information; 4) Protected user privacy, with their searching protected by strict privacy controls; 5) No advertising, which assures the free flow of information and a complete separation from commercial interests; 6) Internalization, which emphasizes community building and the sharing of information instead of a top-down approach. Knowledge Engine by Wikipedia will be the Internet's first transparent search engine, and the first one originated by the Wikimedia Foundation.''

Risks were also discussed in the above grant. Specifically:

# ''Third-party influence or interference. Google, Yahoo or another big commercial search engine could suddenly devote resources to a similar project, which could reduce the success of the project. This is the biggest challenge, and an external one.''
# ''Sophisticated role hiring and team attrition. In the San Francisco Bay Area, hiring top engineering staff, and retaining them, is more challenging than ever because of competition from start-ups and established for-profit companies.''

:''The main way to mitigate the first challenge: Proceed with the search engine project as deliberately as possible - which is what the Wikimedia Foundation is doing. The foundation is also optimizing the project for success by hiring engineers who are deeply motivated to work for a nonprofit with an important mission. We've always overcome this challenge, with engineers happy to join a work force that celebrates when people around the world get better access to knowledge.''

More at: [http://thewikipedian.net/2016/02/19/knowledge-engine-lila-tretikov/ ''Search and Destroy: The Knowledge Engine and the Undoing of Lila Tretikov'']: Blog post by Bill Beutler, February 19, 2016.

The above speaks to an immature system of '''internal control''' which needs to rise up to the very top of the 2016 to do list. Although the clear mission is charitable it still must become responsible to "shareholders". The community of contributors (financial and time) are the shareholders. Ultimately all the directors and management must be made ''accountable.''

'''Go to school on Google'''

Public disclosures at Google well illustrate the nature of ''internal control'' needed at a large web company. Note how [http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000165204416000012/googexhibit3104q42015.htm Ruth Porat CFO] and [http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000165204416000012/googexhibit3101q42015.htm Larry Page CEO] must each sign that their ''internal control system'' is rock solid, and that they are personally attending to it.

A reading of selected sections of Google's annual report is also very instructive as to just how competitive providing services, especially search engine services, are over the web. Services such as ''Knowledge Engine'' envisions to be are likely to draw out substantial competitive response from giant competitors. Such heated competition would in any case require a Cadillac quality ''internal control system''' and a very unified desire (ie Community and Foundation on the exact same page) to push ahead in that direction.

'''From GOOGLE 10-K [http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000165204416000012/goog10-k2015.htm#sE6CD9F65F0AA8AE3CD60CA518A030F8A Competition subsection of BUSINESS] emphasis added.'''

Our business is characterized by rapid change as well as new and disruptive technologies. We face formidable competition in every aspect of our business, '''particularly from companies that seek to connect people with online information''' and provide them with relevant advertising. We face competition from:
*'''General purpose search engines and information services''', such as Yahoo, Microsoft's Bing, Yandex, Baidu, Naver, WebCrawler, and MyWebSearch.
*Vertical search engines and e-commerce websites, such as Kayak ('''travel queries'''), LinkedIn ('''job queries'''), WebMD ('''health queries'''), and Amazon and eBay ('''e-commerce''). '''Some users will navigate directly to such content, websites, and apps rather than go through Google.'''
*Social networks, such as '''Facebook and Twitter'''. Some users are increasingly relying on social networks for product or service referrals, '''rather than seeking information through traditional search engines.'''
*Other forms of advertising, such as television, radio, newspapers, magazines, billboards, and yellow pages. Our advertisers typically advertise in multiple media, both online and offline.
*Other online advertising platforms and networks, including Criteo, AppNexus, and Facebook, that compete for advertisers with AdWords, our primary auction-based advertising program.
*'''Other operating systems and mobile device companies.'''
*'''Providers of online products and services that provide answers, information, and services.''' A number of our online products and services, including Gmail, YouTube, and Google Docs, compete directly with new and established companies, which offer communication, information, storage and entertainment services, either on a stand-alone basis or integrated into other offerings.

Competing successfully depends heavily on our ability to rapidly deliver innovative products and technologies to the marketplace so that we can attract and retain:
*'''Users, for whom other products and services are literally one click away, primarily on the basis of the relevance and usefulness of our search results and the features, availability, and ease of use of our products and services.'''
*Advertisers, primarily based on our ability to generate sales leads, and ultimately customers, and to deliver their advertisements in an efficient and effective manner across a variety of distribution channels.
*'''Content providers''' (Google Network Members, the parties who use our advertising programs to deliver relevant ads alongside their search results and content, as well as '''other content providers for whom we distribute or license content)''', primarily based on the quality of our advertiser base, our ability to help these partners generate revenues from advertising, and the terms of our agreements with them.

'''From GOOGLE 10-K
[http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000165204416000012/goog10-2015.htm#sBF525117D634DB8684E2CA518A5591F2 Risk Factors]. Emphasis added.'''

'''Web spam and content farms could decrease our search quality, which could damage our reputation and deter our current and potential users from using our products and services.'''

“Web spam” refers to websites that attempt to violate a search engine's quality guidelines or that otherwise seek to rank higher in search results than a search engine's assessment of their relevance and utility would rank them.
Although English-language web spam in our search results has been significantly reduced, and web spam in most other languages is limited, '''we expect web spammers will continue to seek ways to improve their rankings inappropriately.''' We continuously combat web spam, '''including through indexing technology that makes it harder for spam-like, less useful web content to rank highly.''' We face challenges from low-quality and irrelevant content websites, including '''“content farms”, which are websites that generate large quantities of low-quality content''' to help them improve their search rankings. '''We are continually launching algorithmic changes focused on low-quality websites.''' If our search results display an increasing number of web spam and content farms, this could hurt '''our reputation for delivering relevant information or reduce user traffic to our websites.''' In addition, as we continue to take actions to improve our search quality and reduce low-quality content, this may in the short run reduce our AdSense revenues, since some of these websites are AdSense partners.

[[User:Rjlabs|Rjlabs]] ([[User talk:Rjlabs|talk]]) 01:36, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

:[[User:Rjlabs|Rjlabs]], I have not read the bulk of your note above - sorry, but it's quite long and well past my working hours. But I saw your note on the other page and read the line "Seems odd the synthesis from the community, as compiled by the foundation, is not accessible" and wanted to let you know that the file link is red because it does not exist yet. It has not yet been uploaded. Its upload is imminent. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 01:43, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

:{{u|Rjlabs}}, to be clear, prior to the release of the 2015-16 Annual Plan I had last been at the WMF offices in San Francisco in November 2014 at the FDC meeting: in other words, long before the 2015-16 annual plan had even been started. There is no temporal relationship between my attendance at the FDC meeting and my review of the 2015-16 annual plan. The FDC had met in May 2015, but we did it in Berlin, not San Francisco. Quite honestly, looking at the work the [Search and] Discovery team has done since the budget was approved, it looks like most of it is entirely within what I'd consider reasonable scope for the WMF to do. Several of its activities have been in areas that have long needed improvement or been community requested (e.g., internal search improvements, better maps functions), and others have been more experimental. Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea to put a lot of smart people in the room together; my issue wasn't so much with the concept as the lack of explanation of what they were supposed to be doing. As it turns out, it sounds as though the Discovery team went out there and found useful objectives to pursue absent the big bucks that had originally been envisioned to do things that it seems not even the team itself really thought was such a good idea. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker|talk]]) 01:54, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
::{{u|Rjlabs}}, the [[:c:File:2016 Strategic Approaches Report.pdf|report]] was uploaded on Friday - it's now linked in the sidebar. [[User:PEarley (WMF)|Patrick Earley (WMF)]] ([[User talk:PEarley (WMF)|talk]]) 15:55, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}

== Goal proposal for strategic priority 1: usability testing for search ==

I recommend usability experiments where ordinary people recruited through, e.g. neighborhood postbill flyers or Craigslist gigs ads, come in to some office without any Wikimedia or Wikipedia branding (but with usability studies branding), are offered payment for their agreement to be observed answering questions requiring general reference information with a web browser on low-end phones, laptops, and tablets, with their behavior analyzed to identify deficiencies in Wikimedia search and default search engines' interface with Wikimedia projects.

Jimbo Wales wrote, "I strongly support usability experiments with various classes or categories of users on a variety of devices. We have a poor understanding, mostly anecdotal and not sufficiently systematic, about how people find us, what they are looking for when they do, and also importantly how they fail to find us when they are looking for what we provide," on his talk page 15:55, 21 February 2016 (UTC).

[[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 15:59, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Johnbod]] is involved is something like this, I think, with Wellcome Trust: testing how people find medical information (on desktop, only). --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 00:02, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
: {{ping|EllenCT}} Thanks for your comment. The [[mw:Wikimedia_Research/Design_Research|Design Research]] team has been working to develop this area and has worked across the features directly and also to train our teams to get more direct user feedback with ordinary people. Our goal is to do this in many regions of the world to have a more representative understanding. [[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 17:22, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposal for strategic priorities 2 and 3: staff community wishlist ==

The [[2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Results]] should be incorporated into Foundation engineering goals, and staffed with appropriate headcount. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:18, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
* {{ping|EllenCT}} the efforts are supported by the [[Community_Tech|Community Tech]] team engineering goals and they have [[2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey|selected 10 items]] to focus on over the next year. The headcount to support those wishes are provided in our annual planning process. Additional requests are reviewed by additional product audiences in collaboration with Community Tech and they also will have a focus at the [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/wikimedia-hackathon-2016-organization/ 2016 Wikimedia Hackathon]. [[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 05:32, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::{{Ping|WMoran (WMF)}} Are you satisfied that only ten were approved when nearly 40 got dozens of votes and almost a hundred were seconded? Is there an ongoing plan to repeat the survey on an annual basis? I'm concerned about the amount of effort it takes to support the visual editor and mobile interfaces on so many kinds of fragmented mobile devices and often less-than-interoperable browsers, and whether those efforts support content contributors as well as some of the moderately popular items on the wishlist would. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 15:50, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:::{{ping|EllenCT}} Ten was the initial target of what the team identified to support for now and provided [[2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey#What_about_the_other_97_proposals.3F|further detail for the other 97 proposals]]. I do believe this is a step in a good direction, something we will continue to improve on and a list all teams can continue to work on. Yes the plan is to do this on an annual basis. [[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 07:23, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
: I believe community wishes should drive all engineering teams, not just several people in one special team. --[[User:Ilya|Ilya]] ([[User talk:Ilya|talk]]) 08:43, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
:: I have mixed feelings about going that far. Foundation personnel might on occasion see issues which are not visible to the community, e.g., if a disk is about to fill up or a vulnerability is uncovered, ideally someone internal to the Foundation will know about that before anyone in the community is affected by or even aware of it. But that should be the exception rather than the rule, and I certainly agree that the Foundation should never take a stand in opposition to the community, such as happened with superprotect and the visual editor rollout fiasco. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 01:48, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposal for strategic priorities 2 and 3: rewarding contributors ==

The Foundation is prohibited from paying contributors.[https://www.eff.org/issues/cda230] Could a new organization funded by the Foundation reward contributors for achievements? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:33, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

:Hi [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]]! WMF's Community Resources team supports individuals, groups and formal organization across our movement through grants and other resources. Many organizations in our movement, including ones that receive funding from WMF, reward contributors for their achievements. This happens in a number of ways. Many of them provide recognition, merchandise or awards to contributors to recognize their efforts. Many chapters offer prizes to contest winners. In the Wiki Loves Monuments contest, some provide cameras or technical equipment to winners. Another example is Wikimedia Ukraine's Wikizghushchivka (condensed milk), delivered the editor with the most contributions in that month and the new editor with the most contributions in that month. WMF also provides scholarships to individuals to attend Wikimedia movement events. [[User:KLove (WMF)|KLove (WMF)]] ([[User talk:KLove (WMF)|talk]]) 01:10, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thank you, [[User:KLove (WMF)|Katy]]. Those are fantastic programs, but not very focused on fair compensation for the crowdsourced textual contributions from which the Foundation primarily benefits. Please note that uncompensated copyright grants can be recinded, but you [http://www.copyright.gov/docs/203.html have until 2035] to track down contributors and compensate them in return for a permanent grant with [[en:Consideration|consideration]] if you want to avoid that possibility. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 01:49, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, one could open a crowdfund to ask money to do a specific task. [[User:Evan-Amos|Evan-Amos]] did it to make photos of old videogame consoles, for example. --[[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]] ([[User talk:NaBUru38|talk]]) 00:11, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:Why not use the Foundation's extremely successful ongoing crowdfunding to support the general case through the Chapters? As long as the Foundation proper has no say in the details, they can't be accused of exerting editorial control to disrupt their Section 203 CDA safe harbor provisions. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 15:56, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

== Critical questions for strategic priorities 2 and 3: supporting the contributor community ==

(a) What public policy efforts, beyond privacy and related protections, would best support and further empower the community and contributions? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 17:25, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

: First of all, the Wikimedia community is not just contributors.
: Contributors search for information gaps, biased information and unsourced information. To fix them, they search for resources to get the correct information. That's two separate tasks.
: Non-contributors can be varied. Some share information outside the Wikimedia pages. Some encourage and teach people to collaborate.
: Each member of the community needs different things. Contributors need ways to find things to fix, and access to sources. Teachers need resources, and training too. --[[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]] ([[User talk:NaBUru38|talk]]) 00:24, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:: Quite true; it's hard to say that the Foundation is [[Mission statement|disseminating educational content "effectively and globally"]] when Foundation officials cozy up to information ministers in dictatorial countries involved with political repression and censorship. There is no doubt that needs to stop. So to add another "critical question" under the strategic planning process as stated: (b) Should the Foundation adopt a policy to explicitly oppose such oppressive and censorial regimes? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:02, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::: Hi {{Ping|User:EllenCT}}, have you had the chance to look at the WMF Public Policy team's work on the [https://policy.wikimedia.org Public Policy Portal]? It lays out five core areas of work, including anti-censorship, access to knowledge, copyright and open licenses, intermediary liability protections, as well as privacy. The Public Policy team is part of the WMF Legal team. [[User:Katherine (WMF)|Katherine (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Katherine (WMF)|talk]]) 18:24, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
:::: Yes, {{Ping|Katherine (WMF)}} and hope that coverage will increase, for example, by the Foundation showing a greater commitment with actions instead of just words, especially on the questions: (c) what are the necessary social factors to optimize access to knowledge? E.g., [http://www.foreurope.eu/fileadmin/documents/pdf/Workingpapers/WWWforEurope_WPS_no040_MS110.pdf] and (d) do those factors include active measures to reduce both political oppression and economic repression? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 20:28, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
:::: {{ping|EllenCT}} I think there is a lot of room here to grow and use the influence we now wield to make changes without spending a ton of resources (obviously some but not a ton). Obviously Privacy and related protections are a big aspect of that (and are important) but there are other areas which could be really beneficial to the mission and the community. For example copyright reform has always been a relatively important one and there has been a lot of discussion in Europe about that recently especially around the [[:w:en:Freedom_of_panorama|Freedom of Panorama]]. I know that some of the European chapters have been doing some great work on that and that our legal teams Public Policy folks have been assisting. More recently (as in last Friday I believe) a couple members of the Support & Safety team started conversations with Public Policy about online harassment as well. While we want to tackle that from multiple angles (it is almost always better to deal with it in non-legal ways first) the laws about online harassment are in really bad shape right now and trying to find some ways we can push for change there, especially since it's a high priority for other orgs too right now, could be really useful. [[User:Jalexander-WMF|Jalexander]]--[[:w:Wikimedia Foundation|WMF]] 19:18, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
::::: {{Ping|Jalexander-WMF}} Relative to freedom of panorama, which of the issues identified in [http://www.foreurope.eu/fileadmin/documents/pdf/Workingpapers/WWWforEurope_WPS_no040_MS110.pdf] do you think are more closely associated with supporting and further empowering the community and contributions? For example, those who lack shelter, food, water, electricity, or Internet are much less likely to contribute than those lacking freedom of panorama instead. How important is freedom from political oppression relative to freedom of panorama in supporting and further empowering the community and contributions? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:41, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::As an organization and movement driven by our mission, we strive to empower all people to share knowledge under a free license. Our most important tools for this are our wikis. From a perspective of public policy we want to make sure that our community and all others are able to efficiently and safely use them to participate in creating, reading and sharing knowledge.
::::::Lack of shelter and food are among many pressing issues that can prevent individuals from going online and from taking part in our projects. While these are important issues, given our limited resources, we focus on access to knowledge as an area in which we can make a socio-economic impact by empowering current users and bringing new ones to the projects. Wikipedia Zero, for instance, allows disadvantaged people, who otherwise could not afford access to Wikipedia, to learn and contribute to the project. [[User:Slaporte (WMF)|Stephen LaPorte (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Slaporte (WMF)|talk]]) 00:39, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::::For the wide-ranging issues facing vast numbers of people which are already well served by other existing nonprofit charities or NGOs, I agree it would be foolhardy to try to act directly in those areas. However, the Foundation can and should endorse the best. We are surrounded by perhaps the most intelligent set of intellectuals in both relative and absolute terms ever collaborating so closely in history. We should leverage that intelligence by endorsing the best organizations with whom we share greater common causes, and communicating those endorsements widely. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 05:11, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

== Regarding knowledge quality ==
=== TLDR: ===

Presently, this document mandates the WMF to work on tools that improve the volume of "knowledge creation" and the platforms (mobile, tablet) and formats (multimedia) we use. Please make it clear that WMF will invest some of its technical resources in the building of badly needed tools to support ''knowledge quality improvement'' such as expert reviewer tools and a simplified diff so readers can see changes from the reviewed version without all the wikicode. I and others can give you more examples of what's needed but, for now, we - those working with experts, journals and institutions - need to know if you're going to support us with more than just motherhood and apple pie statements. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 23:58, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

=== Argument ===

The [https://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Movement_Strategic_Plan_Summary/Summary 2010-2015 Strategy] placed quality in its top five strategic priorities.

[https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2015_Strategy_Consultation_Report.pdf&page=37 Analysis of the 2015 Community Strategy Consultation] found that accuracy and neutrality were high on both volunteers' and readers' lists of concerns. If you add those two together and call it "reliability", reliability, a critical aspect of quality, is their chief concern.

[https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2016_Strategic_Approaches_Report.pdf&page=9 The 2016 Strategic Approaches Report Part 1] identifies "Increase content quality and timeliness by technologically enhancing our editors’ ability to create, monitor, and process content" as one of the most selected strategic approaches. Bearing in mind [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2016_Strategic_Approaches_Report.pdf&page=32 that report's caveat], {{quote|"Reach" had the most comments overall. Note: that it is first in the order of focus areas displayed, which likely impacted why this has a higher response rate. Three of the six "Reach" approaches led all other approaches in all focus areas when looking at total number of participants selecting the approach. Note: this may be related to the disproportionate number of "Reach" comments versus other focus areas.}} the actual ranking of quality and timeliness (and other "Knowledge" approaches) in the minds of respondents is probably higher than the report represents.In this Draft WMF Strategy, under [[2016_Strategy/Draft_WMF_Strategy#Our_vision_.E2.80.94_and_our_challenge|Our vision — and our challenge]], you include "quality" in {{quote|Knowledge - How can we increase the quality of knowledge on the Wikimedia projects, the diversity of formats, and the depth and breadth of coverage (especially underrepresented subjects)?}}Also in this draft, under [[2016_Strategy/Draft_WMF_Strategy#Strategic_Statement|#Strategic Statement]], in the first sentence you say you support the creation of high-quality knowledge {{quote|The Wikimedia Foundation supports the delivery of free knowledge to the world, the health and growth of the Wikimedia communities, and the creation of diverse, high-quality free knowledge.}} but then, you leave it out of the relevant bullet point, 3{{quote|We will increase and diversify knowledge by developing high-priority curation and creation tools for user needs}}

In [[2016_Strategy/Draft_WMF_Strategy#3._Increase_and_diversify_contribution_of_knowledge|the discussion of point 3]] you leave "quality" out of the two bold headings:{{quote|3. '''Increase and diversify contribution of knowledge We will increase and diversify knowledge by developing high-priority curation and creation tools for user needs.'''}} If I'm correctly understanding your language in that discussion, emphasis will be placed on providing tools that improve the volume of knowledge produced and tools that make knowledge creation using diverse platforms (mobiles and tablets) and formats (multimedia) easier, but you do not emphasise the development of tools for improving probably the most important aspect of quality - reliability. I'll remind you, reliability (neutrality and accuracy) is the chief concern of our readers and the wider volunteer community.[https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2015_Strategy_Consultation_Report.pdf&page=37]

Those of us working with academics, journals and institutions trying to improve the reliability of Wikimedia's offering need you to make tools that help experts review our articles, and tools that present versions of our articles that have achieved [[en:WP:RS|reliable source]] status in a way that is most useful to our readers, and other tools, too. Please find a form of words for the second half of this document that clearly emphasises your support for reliability improvement initiatives, and not just knowledge volume improvement and knowledge platform and format improvement. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 02:44, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
:These are good points, but to be fair, strategic priority 3 does refer to high-quality knowledge acquisition as part of its criteria when they are restated in paragraph form, and refers to quality twice in the rationale. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 14:28, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
::Higher up in the document they ask, "How can we increase the quality of knowledge on the Wikimedia projects, the diversity of formats, and the depth and breadth of coverage (especially underrepresented subjects)?" But their proposed answers do not expressly support the development of tools aimed at improving the reliability of our current corpus. Where it specifically addresses what the WMF can do, at the business end of the document - the bit that translates into action - it discusses increasing volume and something it refers to as diversity (the exact meaning of which eludes me but that I ''think'' refers to making mobiles and tablets better for editors, and possibly making multimedia features easier to deploy), but leaves out the development of technical support for improving reliability. I'd appreciate it if the authors could clarify this for me.

::What I need to know is, does this document include or exclude the possibility of the WMF developing tools to help experts review our content (such tools are sorely needed), and help us better display versions of our articles (like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dengue_fever&oldid=629402504 this version of Dengue fever]) that have passed expert review, and several other tools? If it is meant to encompass that kind of work, I'd appreciate it if the authors could make that clear in the document. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 09:49, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:::I agree with Anthonyhcole that the words do not seem to emphasize quality. I do see that the word was used once. I have no doubt that if asked, express opposition to quality but I don’t think the typical reader of this prioritization is going to come away with the impression that improving quality is high on the list of priorities. How do we make sure that support for quality is more than simply lip service?--[[User:Sphilbrick|Sphilbrick]] ([[User talk:Sphilbrick|talk]]) 15:45, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::: + emphasize quality more, yes. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 20:14, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

::::Just to clarify, the intention is that quality is part of this strategic priority. That will be present in the next iteration of the strategy. As for specific tools that will be in or out, the WMF Annual Plan (to be released by April 1) will show some of the specific plans for tools, etc. The product team is using community consultation (task boards, research, community wish lists, etc.) to determine which tools to work on and will continue adding through the year accordingly. [[User:Suzie Nussel (WMF)|Suzie Nussel (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Suzie Nussel (WMF)|talk]]) 18:42, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Suzie Nussel (WMF)}}Would you please link to these tool discussions, so others can participate. We've been waiting years too long for real tools to robustly support referencing, citations, and validation of the intext assertions that the citations are intended to underpin. We've hobbled along with Citation bot and citation templates, but they are not really intended or suited for a multilingual enterprise. They have no mechanism for archiving the referenced sources, nor for attributing specific statements to them. This gap undermines the whole concept of verifiability, especially after translated articles see subsequent edits. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 20:59, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|LeadSongDog}} the [[2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey|Community Wishlist]] has a number of items on it and an explanation of the process for selection. These items will have a focus at the [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/wikimedia-hackathon-2016-organization/ 2016 Wikimedia Hackathon] as well. We hope to run the Wishlist annually. Hope this provides a better pathway. --[[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 02:12, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|LeadSongDog}} [[User:Makyen]] made [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Ref_supports2 Template:Ref supports2]. If you hover your mouse pointer over the footnote markers in [[en:V&A Spiral]] (or over the dotted line, depending on your settings), a "tool tip" pops up telling you exactly what assertions are supported by the source. It's not much used because it isn't accessible to users of screen readers. It would be better if it ''highlighted'' the supported text, rather than duplicated it in a tool tip. The WMF should do this and make it accessible to the reading-impaired. It's essential if our readers (and even other editors) are to properly review our content. I also 100% agree with you all urls in citations should be automatically converted to links to archived versions - for the same reason. This latter seems to be being worked on at [[Community Tech/Migrate dead external links to archives/Notes]]. That proposal was number one on the community's [[2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Top_10_notes|2015 wishlist]] and the community tech team will devote some of its limited resources to it. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 12:46, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::::I'm not so concerned with the way the information is presented to the reader as I am about robustly ''and'' obviously tying assertions to sources. We often see hundreds of edits to a paragraph subsequent to the addition of a reference, often by well intentioned novices that simply don't grasp the importance of source citation. The cumulative effect is often that the text is no longer supportable by the cited source. Making the connection obvious to all will help prevent this loss of source—text integrity. The need for this is perhaps most obvious on wikipedias, but it arises on other wikis too. A common solution should be available for use everywhere, in all languages.[[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 05:15, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::Regarding: "Just to clarify, the intention is that quality is part of this strategic priority. That will be present in the next iteration of the strategy." I'm much relieved. Thank you.

:::::Regarding: "As for specific tools that will be in or out, the WMF Annual Plan (to be released by April 1) will show some of the specific plans for tools, etc," Is the annual plan development a public process, or is it being discussed internally?

:::::I follow links in discussions to this or that meta page and kind of parachute into something - like this strategy page - but I'm finding it difficult to visualise the whole short, medium and long term strategy and planning process. I fear there are important elements of it that I'm either unaware of or have misunderstood. Is there a diagram somewhere that lays all this out, [[User:Suzie Nussel (WMF)|Suzie]]? Thanks for your help. :o) --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 07:11, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

{{unindent}}While Suzie can answer some of the broader questions about the plan, I just wanted to hop in to note that the annual plan development will be a public process, [[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]]. The posting of the annual plan is the launch of the next phase of the consultation. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 14:02, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

:Thanks, [[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie]]. I know how busy you all are, and really appreciate your time. Just to clarify: regarding "The posting of the annual plan is the launch of the next phase of the consultation", will the annual plan be initially posted as a proposal (for discussion)? Thanks again. :o) --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 23:38, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
::Yes, [[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthony]]. :) Full on consultation. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 01:45, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposal for strategic priority 3: database queries supporting content quality ==

I use a [http://quarry.wmflabs.org/query/1337 lengthy, sophisticated WMFLabs Quarry query] to monitor persistent COI editing on influential economics topics which have experienced advocacy editing and tag-team behaviors to push (proven astroturfed, elsewhere) points of view which diverge from the peer reviewed secondary literature reviews and other mainstream reliable sources. Would quality benefit if the Foundation maintained a library of such queries in problem subject matter topic areas and published their results daily, and with the ability for editors to subscribe to notifications of unusual levels of editing activity in wide-ranging groups of articles? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 14:28, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
:If I've understood you, this is a great idea. You're talking about producing a continuous or daily report on topic areas (or networks of articles) that are receiving unusual levels of activity, activity that fits a pre-defined profile indicative of problematical editing, right? --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 09:55, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::Yes; thank you. Perhaps a quarterly or monthly prose report on paid and advocacy editing which has been uncovered or brought to the Foundation's attention, too. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 11:07, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposal for strategic priority 2: third-party independent evaluation of Board of Trustees' fidelity to Mission ==

Recent events have called into question the extent to which the Foundation's Board of Trustees has been acting in alignment with the Foundation's Mission and Values. An independent third party skilled in nonprofit organization performance and organizational dynamics should be hired to study the past performance of the Board and recommend possible improvements in the way Board seats are allocated, how members are nominated and elected, and how agendas and minutes are produced and communicated. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 14:36, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
:Hi EllenCT - Thanks for your comment, which I find quite interesting and thoughtful. We do work with a top governance firm who does advise us on Board practices when we have inquiries, but I understand that you are proposing something a bit more comprehensive. Of course, the majority of our Board members come directly from the Wikimedia community, which helps ensure that values and mission are discussed at the Board meetings. I would be interested in hearing how you might reconstitute the Board to ensure alignment with the Foundation's Mission and Values. I have heard suggestions that we should reserve a seat or two to represent communities from other parts of the world (which we sometimes call the "Global South"). IMHO, we do need trustees with strong governance experience, so I personally am a supporter of the four self-selected Board seats, which the Board is free to fill with such expertise, an expertise which is particularly necessary for managing a $60+ million non-profit with a global mission. Thanks again for taking the time to comment. Much appreciated. [[User:GeoffBrigham (WMF)|GeoffBrigham (WMF)]] ([[User talk:GeoffBrigham (WMF)|talk]]) 22:42, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
::You're welcome, Geoff. These questions are very difficult and extremely influential in determining organizational outcomes and avoiding disfunction, as you can see by reading [http://www.blueavocado.org/content/ditch-your-board-composition-matrix the article and comments here.] I don't have the expertise necessary to make a recommendation with which I would be satisfied, and even though I've only been a Wikipedian editor for years and have served in no other capacity, I don't think I can be objective enough. And I certainly don't think any current or former paid employee of the Foundation or chapter or current or former Foundation or chapter board member can possibly be free from the conflicts of interest involved in making such recommendations. Thank goodness there are organizations which specialize in making them, such as [https://www.aktadvisors.com/nonprofit-board-governance/] and [http://www.americanphilanthropic.com/services/foundation-services/ensure-fidelity-to-donor-intent/]. I would start by compiling a more comprehensive list of such organizations, asking them for references and a work quotation, and going with the most reputable within a reasonable price range.
::However, having said all that, I think there is no question that Board agendas should be published a week in advance of meetings and that minutes should be published no later than a week afterward. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 20:43, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

== Conceptual problem #1 "creation of knowledge" ==

There are several references to "creation of knowledge" and variants - you can search for "creation" to find most of them. At least in Wikipedia, we absolutely do not '''create''' knowledge. Absolutely do not. Per [[en:WP:NOT]], what we do is create articles that provide a "summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject". If the WMF understands that it, or the editing communities, "create knowledge", this is a huge conceptual error that it needs to correct. People in the real world create knowledge - they do research in the sciences and humanities and publish it, and other members of the scholarly and scientific communities digest that and determine what is "accepted knowledge" and we summarize that. "Creating knowledge" in Wikipedia is barred by [[en:WP:OR]]. It is just not what we are ''about''.

To the extent that the WMF is trying to design anything that is about "creating knowledge", or, really importantly, if WMF is not taking into account the crucial activities carried out by the editing community in digesting the vast amounts of literature out there, determining what is and is not "accepted knowledge", and summarizing it, so that we can present "summaries of accepted knowledge" to our users, you are are making a dramatic error, with serious consequences. Would be happy to discuss this. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 03:57, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:I agree this is a crucial issue, but suspect it has more to do with the unfamiliarity of the strategic planning facilitator with the details of Wikipedia than any sort of a conscious decision to reject the WP:NOR pillar. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 11:09, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:Also, as you note, "at least in Wikipedia" is important. :) Wikinews and Wikivoyage, to name just two, view "original research" very differently. However, given that some of our projects are dedicated to curation, I'd imagine "creation of knowledge resources" would be more accurate, since such resources are created as much by curation as they are original research. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 16:50, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for your reply, Maggie! As WP is the flagship (as I understand it), it would be useful if the challenges of content creation in WP were more thoughtfully worked into this. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 19:16, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

::: I create videos of events and interviews. Writing about history is also creating. --[[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]] ([[User talk:NaBUru38|talk]]) 00:28, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::::again I am talking about Wikipedia. We do not create knowledge in Wikipedia. we summarize accepted knowledge. these are radically different things. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 06:31, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::::: Nor do we "discover" new knowledge. I suppose those searching Wikipedia may discover existing knowledge, of which they were previously unaware. [[User:Wbm1058|Wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 18:07, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::: I agree with you. I think we over use the word knowledge and sometimes use it incorrectly. --[[User:Lgruwell-WMF|Lgruwell-WMF]] ([[User talk:Lgruwell-WMF|talk]]) 18:45, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

== Conceptual problem #2 - metrics driven ==

There is a bunch of stuff in here about surveying consumers and measuring what they do, and letting the results drive what you do, in a big picture way. That sounds lovely and data-driven etc, but I want to remind you that the reason that TV news in the US is so abysmal, is... that this is what their users want. Yes the networks are driven by profit, but they get profit by getting more viewers, and they get more viewers by giving viewers what they want; they carefully measure whether people are watching, or not, and they try to figure out why. This sounds exactly like what you intend to do, and I reckon the results will be the same. (See [http://niemanreports.org/articles/the-transformation-of-network-news/ here] for example - what people want, is entertainment; yes even from their news). Yes we want to be relevant, but no, we do not want to devolve into entertainment or sound bites. What is built into your metrics program ''strategically'' to deal with this? It is a challenge faced by people who want to deliver knowledge everywhere. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 04:16, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

:Yes but: If you define "reliable" as "neutral and accurate", the readership and the wider volunteer community (who responded to the 2015 community consultation) [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2015_Strategy_Consultation_Report.pdf&page=37 overwhelmingly cited reliability] as their chief concern, ahead of all other concerns (such as improved mobile access and multi-media display). So, while I take your point we need to be wary of populism, I see nothing in this document that seriously responds to the chief concern of our readership. The solutions hinted at in this document are aimed at increasing volume and making editing easier. So, I don't think you need to worry that this process is too responsive to the expressed wishes of our readership. Their main concern is being ignored. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 10:19, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::{{u|Anthonyhcole}} That's bitter. But yes, I recommend you open a thread on reliability. That is something I think the WMF could help with - like the bots they have created to identify vandalism. I agree it would be interesting to see what kind of tools they could build that would help us detect additions of unreliable content. I know I have "filters" I use to identify promotional editing and I wonder if they could be translated to a bot....[[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 19:15, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::which i actually just proposed: [[Grants:IdeaLab/Bot_to_detect_and_tag_advocacy_editing]] [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 00:45, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
:::Bitter?!?! Mmm. OK. Probably. I have started a thread on reliability [[#Regarding knowledge quality|above]]. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 00:55, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
:::: :) So you did. sorry for not picking up on that - it was obvious and i missed it. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 20:12, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

== Conceptual problem #3 - no minding of the gap between WMF and the communities ==

Pretty much the entire second item here, "Increase volunteer retention and engagement" is hard for me to understand on any level and much of the clueful response you received in the consultation phase said the same. The editing communities are self-governing with respect to content and behavior, and nothing - literally nothing - in this document reflects the challenge that poses to the WMF to affect any change in culture, attracting editors, or retaining editors.

What I do find in this section, is a lot of hand-wavy stuff that sounds great but is so vague that I cannot imagine tactics to carry any of it out. This should be re-thought and re-written so that it takes account the gaps between the WMF and the various communities and lays out actual strategies that the WMF can carry out in light of those gaps, and that respects the autonomy of the communities with respect to content and behavior. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 04:39, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

:Hello, [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]]. This was the top approach chosen by community during consultation in this area - I assume that most (or even perhaps all) of the users who engaged and chose that option were clueful. We have programs engineered towards achieving these goals already, including for a few examples education program work, volunteer developer outreach and INSPIRE campaigns focused in such areas. So there is work we can and already do in this area - the call is to prioritize it. This particular document is a high level review of strategy. The tactics are being put together as this conversation evolves and will be discussed in our draft annual plan, to be released on April 1st. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 15:56, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for your reply, Maggie. The "consultation" was somewhat problematic - as you know it was truncated, and as several people commented, the limited range of things to respond to made it difficult - you all had already baked in #2 being a top priority. And you did get feedback along the lines I have written here.
:: In my experience as a Wikipedia editor, I find that overwhelmingly two things determine how long somebody stays - how aware they are there is a lot to learn about how to create quality content (how teachable they are) and how aligned they actually are with the mission (do they really want to help summarize accepted knowledge for the public good according to the policies and guidelines established by the community, or are they here to promote or denigrate something?) If they are teachable and are really here to build an encyclopedia, their experience will generally be OK. They generally need a lot of mentoring from other editors, which happens casually, but they generally stick around. People who are unwilling/unable to learn, or who are [[en:WP:NOTHERE]], generally create a lot of drama and suck up volunteer time, distracting them from the work of building content. I don't understand how WMF can affect any of that.
::My experience of education program work, is that we get waves of students coming to articles and who start editing directly (and quite often aggressively, because it is not uncommon that students view their grade as depending on getting some content into Wikipedia), who require a ton of ''volunteer time and effort'' to actually mentor. See above, with regard to the factors that drive whether they stick around or not.
:: I don't understand how WMF believes it can affect these intra-community things. I acknowledge that there is a lot I don't know. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 19:12, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

:::Hi, [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]]. :) As you know, people were offered 6 built-in and an additional free comment input for each area, which gives a fair amount of room for diverse opinions. We did receive different levels of support (and opposition) for different propositions. I think that's to be expected. The needs of different projects and different communities across the world are pretty diverse; for that matter, the needs and wishes of contributors even within English Wikipedia are pretty diverse. It seems we agree that mentorship is important. The [[Research:Teahouse|Tea House]] is an example of a [[Research:Teahouse long term new editor retention|program that seems to have positively impacted engagement]]. (And has now spread beyond the EnWP pilot to other projects.) (In terms of the [[:outreach:Education|education program]], it's [[:outreach:Education/Countries|global]]; impact has varied according to region, although I'm not best positioned to discuss their metrics.) But what a developed community like EnWP needs may differ from what growing communities may need, and specialized communities (like OTRS volunteers or tool maintainers) have still different requirements. Engagement and re-engagement measures can differ accordingly. I could well imagine such efforts involving supporting the work of affiliates, community event organizers (such as those who coordinate GLAM events or editathons), grantees, key functionary groups (like ArbComs and OmbCom), and volunteer tool developers and coders once we get to the tactical level in the annual plan. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 20:53, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::::I see. I didn't know the origins of the Tea House (described [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-05-14/WikiProject_report here]). That is really interesting - a great idea that emerged in dialogue between a motivated GLAM-supported volunteer and folks at the WMF. Hm! And I hear you on there being different needs in different communities. I am sorry but i don't know what your last sentence means. What would "efforts involving supporting...ArbComs" possibly look like? thanks. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 23:08, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::For one example (which may or may not wind up a tactic), [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]], there have been calls to support ArbComs with training on dealing with harassment complaints, which could increase Arb engagement and provide better avenues of help with issues for community members. For another, there have been requests to help arbitration committees across projects communicate and share best practices. There may be other approaches as well that can help them function in a way that could improve the environment on individual projects where they operate. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 23:14, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::Interesting. Issues of harassment are notoriously difficult (like the Lightbreather case, which was widely misunderstood in the media) and Arbcom cannot make policy, but rather has to follow it, including the OUTING portion of the harassment policy. Would harassment training of arbcom members improve gender gap issues or harassment more generally? Interesting question.
::::::Your answers here have been interesting and I appreciate your time, and have learned a bunch. So thanks! Each thing that you mentioned does "mind the gap" and relies on engagement of the community in conception and execution. The description in the strategy does not express that enough in my view. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 00:43, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

== The role of the Foundation ==

* "Building a better understanding of our users’ needs is critical before the Foundation makes important decisions on solving readership and contribution challenges"
* "The Foundation will experiment with statistically significant ways of increasing volunteer retention and engagement"

Hello, I disagree with that. The Foundation must ''support the community'' to "understand the users' needs" to "make decisions on solving participation issues", "increasing volunteer retention and engagement" and so on. The Foundation should never do those things in our place. --[[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]] ([[User talk:NaBUru38|talk]]) 23:55, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
:Hello, [[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]]. The Wikimedia Foundation definitely must support community initiatives and does - through the grant program, quite directly, but in other areas of engagement as well. I agree that the Foundation should not be making important decisions on solving major problems alone; I think we need to improve that language to reflect that. I thank you for calling it out. (''Edited to add: the whole sentence, for context is "Participants indicated that building a better understanding of our users’ needs is critical before the Foundation makes important decisions on solving readership and contribution challenges."'') That said, we do have programs and researchers in the WMF as well who will be exploring these issues. Understanding users' needs and experimenting with ways of increasing volunteer retention and engagement are both important parts of meeting the strategy recommendations of [[2016 Strategy/Community consultation|the last consultation]] (linked for the benefit of others, as I know you participated there and are quite well aware of where it is :)). --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 12:59, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::The sentence [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=2016_Strategy%2FDraft_WMF_Strategy&type=revision&diff=15426150&oldid=15420267 has been edited to add] "in consultation with community". --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 13:58, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

== Who authored this draft? ==

I see [[User:Kbrown (WMF)]] posted it and [[User:Mdennis (WMF)]] and [[User:GeoffBrigham (WMF)]] are responding, but did you author it Karen, Maggie and Geoff? It would be good to discuss this with the people who put the thinking into it. If that's you, Karen, Maggie and Geoff, that's great. But I'd like to know. (Who is the strategic planning facilitator mentioned above?) --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 03:17, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:This draft is collaborative, [[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]]. :) I worked on it; Geoff worked on it; our strategic planning facilitator (Suzie Nussel) worked on it; many others contributed as well. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 12:36, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks, Maggie. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 23:00, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

== What's new? ==

How is this new strategy different from what WMF claimed as their strategy all the years before? I see new wordings, but no new ideas. And just following the numbers in the community survey seems to me a sign of intellectual laziness or a lack of imagination. Community input is supposed to give the WMF food for thought, but you are the ones who are expected to think for your self. Or as Steve Jobs said: How are the customers to know what they want until we give it to them? --[[User:H-stt|h-stt]] [[User_talk:H-stt|!?]] 17:26, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
: I think you raise a fair point. We are developing an organizational strategy here, which is different from a product strategy, though. I am asking myself: Does this give the product and community teams the general direction they need to make decisions about their work? Is this encouraging or hampering innovation? Are we suggesting to staff that they "stay the course" or innovate in this? --[[User:Lgruwell-WMF|Lgruwell-WMF]] ([[User talk:Lgruwell-WMF|talk]]) 18:20, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
::It would be interesting to hear more about how [[innovation]] fits into the draft Strategy. What direction do you see it taking? [[User:Rogol Domedonfors|Rogol Domedonfors]] ([[User talk:Rogol Domedonfors|talk]]) 21:15, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
:::The community wishlist has lots of new things on it. There are several ongoing mission components I would rather see be done more successfully or completely than adding novelty for its own sake. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:36, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

: The new interim executive director for the WMF is the former chief communications officer. I guess that will lead to a big shift in WMF Strategy and I like that decision of the board a lot. --[[User:Molarus|Molarus]] ([[User talk:Molarus|talk]]) 14:22, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
::agree--[[User:Ozzie10aaaa|Ozzie10aaaa]] ([[User talk:Ozzie10aaaa|talk]]) 18:26, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
::: Hi {{Ping|Molarus|Ozzie10aaaa}}, nice to meet you. This strategy is meant to last us around 18 months, to take us through this year's annual plan and the transition period until we have a new permanent ED. This proposed strategy should give us direction about how to strengthen core functions at the Foundation: to give us focus on serving critical community needs, direction on the importance of reaching new readers, and recognize the importance of improving the quality and diversity of the information (knowledge) available on the projects. I don't expect we'll deviate significantly from the approaches laid out here during the transition period, but I expect we'll work on improving tactics and approaches, for example: the way we communicate and work with the community. I also think there are things about the process that can be improved for when we revisit strategy under a new, permanent ED. [[User:Katherine (WMF)|Katherine (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Katherine (WMF)|talk]]) 17:14, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
:::: The new cross-wiki notification informed me about this posting, a game changer in my view. --[[User:Molarus|Molarus]] ([[User talk:Molarus|talk]]) 18:05, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

== (Moved to [[Grants:IdeaLab/Search recent changes|IdeaLab: Search recent changes]]) ==
: Was "Brainstorming for strategic priority 1: search recent changes"

How about a search engine for the most recent month of recent changes? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:43, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

If this would be useful, would it be more useful with the full text of diffs, or only the added, removed, or changed text without context such as usernames and dates? Should those each be selectable options? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 20:38, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Moved to [[Grants:IdeaLab/Search recent changes]]. I am willing to advise ''if the Foundation engineering staff doesn't want to do it'' and someone else is interested in applying for a grant to do this. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 20:25, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

==Risk mitigation==
I agree with a large portion of this plan and would like to thank the WMF staff who authored this draft. Most of the issues have already been pointed out. As usual, problems mostly arise in implementation and I anticipate the annual plan which details this and the metrics used to quantify success. I feel there is insufficient detail about mitigating the risk that comes with expanding reach and diversity. Improving admin tools isn't sufficient, shortcomings in software and reach have the unintended and beneficial side-effect of preventing low-quality or unwanted content from hitting our projects in the first place.

*Engaging new readers and contributors from countries and communities with low Wikimedia awareness and use.
*Improving outreach to new potential volunteers across diverse contribution areas
*Improving retention rates of ... new contributors
:*A look at a random article about an Indian village on en.wp or the new pages feed clearly demonstrates a poor (or malicious) understanding of what the purposes of Wikimedia projects are, especially in Global South countries. Some of this comes about from not knowing (or caring) what an encyclopedia is, some from culture. How do you plan on mitigating the risk that these efforts will result in large quantities of low-quality or out of scope (and hence of dubious educational value) content being "contributed" to Wikimedia projects?

*We want to ... make engaging with Wikimedia easy and intuitive, and in turn increase the volume and diversity of knowledge on our projects.
:*Creating quality free content requires clue and effort. Technical barriers to contributing serve, to some extent, to deter those who lack sufficient competence and/or aren't here to improve our content and reduce the impact they have on our projects. What are you going to do to replace these effects? Examples: [[mw:Mobile design/Uploads|mobile upload copyvio and crap flood]], cross-wiki upload means you have to go to Commons and nominate images for deletion after deleting the spam page on Wikipedia that they are used on.

*Improving mobile engagement and contribution.
:*You're going to find it difficult to circumvent the fundamental limitations of the platform -- phones are (at best) mediocre at all means of making quality contributions to Wikimedia projects, whether it be addition of text or uploading images/video/sound. How will you ensure that mobile contributions meet minimum quality standards (see above)?

I'm asking this because the WMF has been historically woeful at promptly rolling back non-performing programs and features, resulting in a lot more damage than need be. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 04:24, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposals for strategic priority 2: stop storing browsing histories and relying on compromised hardware ==

Recently, it came to light that [[Research:Characterizing Wikipedia Reader Behaviour]] has been storing readers' browsing histories in ways which can cause them to be made available to international law enforcement, sysadmins, researchers who [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/WMF_VolunteerMemorandumofUnderstanding.pdf do not appear to be bound by published effective, enforceable, or permanent terms to protect reader privacy,] and those who may have compromised Wikimedia servers. [[User:LZia (WMF)]] was unable or unwilling to answer the question, "How long do you store browsing histories?"[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_205&oldid=709465902#Seriously_displeased_about_the_new_survey...] ([https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Survey_Privacy_Statement_for_Schema_Revision_15266417 90 days?]) Former Foundation CFO [[User:GByrd (WMF)]] was [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GByrd_(WMF)&oldid=13967521 unable to answer] whether Foundation servers are vulnerable to the exploits described in e.g. [http://resources.infosecinstitute.com/nsa-bios-backdoor-god-mode-malware-deitybounce/], [http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/02/how-hackers-could-attack-hard-drives-to-create-a-pervasive-backdoor/], or [http://www.computerworld.com/article/2474275/cybercrime-hacking/17-exploits-the-nsa-uses-to-hack-pcs--routers-and-servers-for-surveillance.html]. This presents a substantial life-threatening risk to those under regimes practicing political oppression.

If it is necessary to store histories of readers' activity, opt-in informed consent should be obtained, per established human subject experiment ethics standards. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:07, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

: Hi [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]]. Thank you for your comment and sorry for the delay on my end for responding. I did not receive a notification for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_205&oldid=709465902#Seriously_displeased_about_the_new_survey... your earlier comment] and I didn't see it until you pinged me here. I'd like to share with you some of my thoughts and responses, as a researcher who shares similar concerns to yours:
* The intermediate data generated for this research is stored in the same way we store and handle webrequest logs. I want to emphasize that the data for this research is not stored in a new way.
* The browsing history data generated for this research can be built by anyone who gains access to webrequest logs and knows how to write code and run it, i.e., the fact that we are building the traces does not put the user in a riskier situation than if we would not build the traces. The raw data and the technology for building traces is there. If someone gets access to the raw data, they can create those traces themselves.
* Anyone who has access to the data will have to sign a non-disclosure agreement as well as the MOU. Even for seeing intermediate analysis and plots that may include PII information one will need to sign an NDA and MOU. If you see someone on the project list who does not have a signed NDA with us, that person does not have access to raw data or intermediate data that may contain PII. I personally take this very seriously, both because legally I'm obliged to do so but also because I do believe we are working with sensitive data that requires even more care and attention.
* Re the question of how long the data is kept: webrequest logs are kept for 60 days. The privacy policy allows us to keep them for up to 90 days. The browsing traces data that we generate for this research should be kept in a way that is compliant with our privacy policy. This means that beyond 90 days, the data needs to be anonymized or aggregated unless we request an exemption from the privacy policy (which we haven't).
* I would really appreciate to continue to talk with you about the opt-in/opt-out mechanisms. Myself and many others in the Foundation do believe that the user (reader or editor) should have more control over the data he/she shares with us. We need to learn about the trade-offs and have informed conversations going forward.
I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have other questions and/or comments. --[[User:LZia (WMF)|LZia (WMF)]] ([[User talk:LZia (WMF)|talk]]) 17:07, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
::Hi @EllenCT. Thank you for raising these concerns. Adding onto Leila's thoughts above:

::We take serious measures to safeguard the nonpublic personal information of Wikimedia users. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as completely secure data transmission or storage, so like other sites, we can't guarantee that our security will not be breached (by technical measures or through violation of our policies and procedures). However, we do our best to prevent that. Wikimedia Foundation staff and contractors, as well as researchers and volunteers, who have access to this data sign agreements with confidentiality obligations with the Foundation. The MOU you linked to actually refers to one such agreement: "...you will sign a separate Volunteer Access, Confidentiality and Contributions Agreement before you receive access to any nonpublic personal information". Additionally, we have stringent policies and procedures in place when handling third-party requests for nonpublic user information, including those from domestic or international law enforcement. You can read more in our [[wmf:Requests_for_user_information_procedures_%26_guidelines|Requests for User Information Procedures and Guidelines]]. We [https://transparency.wikimedia.org/privacy.html push back] against requests that we believe to be overbroad or unlawful, we [[wmf:Privacy_policy#For_Legal_Reasons|inform affected users]] of such requests when we are able, and we offer support in the form of legal defense funding when appropriate through our [[wmf:Legal_Fees_Assistance_Program|legal fees assistance program]] and our [[m:Legal_Policies#Defense_of_Contributors|defense of contributors program]]. We also [http://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/06/12/securing-wikimedia-sites-with-https/ implemented HTTPS by default] on all of the Wikimedia sites and [http://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/ launched a legal challenge] against the NSA's upstream surveillance program to defend privacy and free expression.

::Regarding your concerns about data retention, the [[wmf:Survey_Privacy_Statement_for_Schema_Revision_15266417|privacy statement]] you linked to that is associated with this research states the following:
:::''Personally identifying information (if any) will be deleted within 90 days. Some types of raw nonpublic data, such as IP addresses or user-agent information, will be aggregated, anonymized, or deleted within 90 days. Certain types of non-personally identifying information and aggregated or anonymized information may be kept indefinitely.''
::This retention practice is in line with our standard [[m:Data_retention_guidelines|data retention guidelines]]. As Leila noted, the survey conducted for this research has not altered previous browsing data collection or retention periods and we frequently delete or anonymize data sooner than 90 days when possible.

::We hope this information helps. Please let us know if there is additional information we can provide or if you have suggestions as to how to further improve our practices in this regard. [[User:Mpaulson (WMF)|Mpaulson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mpaulson (WMF)|talk]]) 19:50, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

:::Thank you, {{Ping|LZia (WMF)}} and {{Ping|Mpaulson (WMF)}} Even if you anonymized the data before it was first stored in RAM, let alone disk or logs to be shipped out of nominal Foundation control, that would not be sufficient because, for example see [[en:AOL search data leak]]. Opt-in with informed consent needs be obtained prior to the storage of reader data. If you have any reason to believe that established ethical standards in human subject research support a different conclusion, please bring it to my attention.
:::Will you please publish the non-disclosure agreement so that the term and conditions are transparent, and can be evaluated by those of us who wish to consider the term and conditions when deciding how to use Foundation services?
:::Also, would you please identify which Foundation personnel tasked with decisions about this research are affiliated with the institution sponsoring and benefiting from it? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:23, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
::::[[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]], I'm not sure if I'm following your last question. Could you expand on what you mean and are referring to? --[[User:LZia (WMF)|LZia (WMF)]] ([[User talk:LZia (WMF)|talk]]) 23:54, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia Foundation/2016/Draft

2016-03-14T20:59:43Z

LeadSongDog: /* Argument */ time for some real progress on citation/referencing tools

<noinclude>
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{| style="border:1px solid #AAA; background:#f9f9f9; width:100%; margin:0 auto 1em auto; padding:.2em;"
|style="width:40px"|
|style="text-align:center;"| '''This [[2016_Strategy/Draft_WMF_Strategy|consultation]] is now open and will be open for comments until March 18th.'''
|}

== Community files not accessible? Even to read? ==
:Not sure the issues discussed below at some length qualify for the status of ''issue fixed''? (See in the green bar below to the right [show] for more info.) ...Recent WMF executive director turnover (Lila Tretikov), handling of the special $250,000 Knight Foundation grant, Knowledge Engine / Search and Discovery initiative, Internal Control irregularities around community funds dissemination, (Funds Dissemination Committee) and plans for head-to-head competition with Google on search services clearly rise to ''strategic level'' issues. Just trying to cover them up is not the best way to plan to move the ball ahead in the upcoming year. None are discussed in the synthesis file posted yet all issues were well known ahead of that. [[User:Rjlabs|Rjlabs]] ([[User talk:Rjlabs|talk]]) 22:37, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::I've tried to suggest one way the Knowledge Engine / Search and Discovery effort can pivot to cooperate with the default search engines instead of competing with them below. This talk page will be used to create the synthesis and critical questions. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 13:38, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
::A Knowledge Engine is not a specific project in the current strategy. We do have ongoing work with the search function which is described at the Discovery page on MediaWiki, but there are no plans for head-to-head competition with Google on search services or anything else. You can keep up with the work planned on improving search at the MediaWiki [[mw:Wikimedia_Discovery|Discovery]] page. Our strategic focuses are set out in this document, but those strategic focuses are not the only work we will be doing - they are our areas of greatest focus. All of our planned work will be detailed in the Annual Plan we will release on or by April 1. [[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 18:53, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|Rjlabs}}, I'm the one who collapsed the section you wrote. I didn't do it to hide anything, or to imply that the Knowledge Engine situation/Lila situation was "fixed"; rather, I collapsed it because, based on how I understood what you wrote, your post seemed to be based on your feeling that the synthesis files being redlinked/inaccessible was a symptom of a coverup. Since that issue was fixed when the first file was uploaded and the second marked as "coming soon," and since this section was extremely long and posted well before the draft strategy was posted, it seemed reasonable to collapse it. If you'd like to discuss the issue of WMF/community relations in the context of the draft strategy, that seems like a perfectly reasonable topic for this page; I would suggest you read through the draft strategy if you haven't already done so, and then start a new section on this page to discuss your take. I say "start a new section" not because I'm saying you're not allowed to use this one or anything, but just because the heading of this section is about a different issue and is pretty far up on the page; starting a new section with a more relevant header is likely to get your thoughts reads by more people checking in on this page's discussions. [[User:Kbrown (WMF)|Kbrown (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Kbrown (WMF)|talk]]) 19:04, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

:{{collapse top|1=Issue fixed, collapsing for ease of scrolling [[User:Kbrown (WMF)|Kbrown (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Kbrown (WMF)|talk]]) 14:27, 4 March 2016 (UTC)}}
:''Unauthorized. You do not have permission to upload this file, for the following reason: The action you have requested is limited to users in one of the groups: Administrators, Uploaders.''

[[File:Strategic approaches synthesis (2016)]] 
[[File:Critical question synthesis (2016)]]
.
Seems odd the synthesis from the community, as compiled by the foundation, is not accessible.

<nowiki>***</nowiki>

Community (volunteers) / Foundation (paid staff & unpaid trustee/directors) relations seem exceptionally strained at the moment. One heated area appears to be a large financial commitment to a program called [[Knowledge_Engine|Knowledge Engine]] being developed by a new, well funded engineering team housed at Foundation headquarters. [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Discovery Search and Discovery]

R&D efforts are supposed to start with the ''Annual Plan'' (including objectives) which is then implemented through an ''Annual Plan Grants Program.'' The actual individual grants are to be approved by a nine person [[Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee|''Funds Dissemination Committee'']]

[[User:Risker|Anne Clin (Risker)]] from Canada, a Foundation appointed member the ''Funds Dissemination Committee'' visited Foundation headquarters and on 30 May 2015 noted:

:''Search and Discovery, a new team, seems to be extraordinarily well-staffed with a disproportionate number of engineers at the same time as other areas seem to be wanting for them. I don't see "fix search" in the Call to Action document'' [a digest of annual plan objectives]; ''even if it fell into the heading "Improve technology and execution", this seems like an abnormally large concentration of the top WMF'' [Foundation] ''Engineering minds to be focusing on a topic that didn't even rate its own mention in the CtA.'' [call to action section of the Annual Plan]. ''More explanation of why Search and Discovery has suddenly become such a major focus is required to assess whether this is appropriate resourcing.''

Apparently, unknown to the Community (volunteers and financial contributors), the Foundation embarked on a substantial project on its own. It accepted grant money that was not administered by the duly appointed and elected nine member ''Funds Dissemination Committee''.

The [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunkworks_project Skunkworks project] called ''Knowledge Engine'' project is best described succinctly in a paragraph out of the [http://knightfoundation.org/grants/201551260/ September, 9 2015 Grant awarded by the Knight Foundation for $250,000] available at [https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/File:Knowledge_engine_grant_agreement.pdf#file Knight agreement]:

:''Knowledge Engine By Wikipedia will democratize the discovery of media, news and information - it will make the Internet's most relevant information more accessible and openly curated, and it will create an open data engine that's completely free of commercial interests. Today, commercial search engines dominate search-engine use of the Internet, and they're employing proprietary technologies to consolidate channels of access to the Internet's knowledge and information. Their algorithms obscure the way the Internet's information is collected and displayed. Knowledge Engine by Wikipedia upends this commercial structure by emphasizing six key areas: 1) Public curation mechanisms for quality; 2) Transparency, telling users exactly how the information originated; 3) Open data access to metadata, giving users the exact date source of the information; 4) Protected user privacy, with their searching protected by strict privacy controls; 5) No advertising, which assures the free flow of information and a complete separation from commercial interests; 6) Internalization, which emphasizes community building and the sharing of information instead of a top-down approach. Knowledge Engine by Wikipedia will be the Internet's first transparent search engine, and the first one originated by the Wikimedia Foundation.''

Risks were also discussed in the above grant. Specifically:

# ''Third-party influence or interference. Google, Yahoo or another big commercial search engine could suddenly devote resources to a similar project, which could reduce the success of the project. This is the biggest challenge, and an external one.''
# ''Sophisticated role hiring and team attrition. In the San Francisco Bay Area, hiring top engineering staff, and retaining them, is more challenging than ever because of competition from start-ups and established for-profit companies.''

:''The main way to mitigate the first challenge: Proceed with the search engine project as deliberately as possible - which is what the Wikimedia Foundation is doing. The foundation is also optimizing the project for success by hiring engineers who are deeply motivated to work for a nonprofit with an important mission. We've always overcome this challenge, with engineers happy to join a work force that celebrates when people around the world get better access to knowledge.''

More at: [http://thewikipedian.net/2016/02/19/knowledge-engine-lila-tretikov/ ''Search and Destroy: The Knowledge Engine and the Undoing of Lila Tretikov'']: Blog post by Bill Beutler, February 19, 2016.

The above speaks to an immature system of '''internal control''' which needs to rise up to the very top of the 2016 to do list. Although the clear mission is charitable it still must become responsible to "shareholders". The community of contributors (financial and time) are the shareholders. Ultimately all the directors and management must be made ''accountable.''

'''Go to school on Google'''

Public disclosures at Google well illustrate the nature of ''internal control'' needed at a large web company. Note how [http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000165204416000012/googexhibit3104q42015.htm Ruth Porat CFO] and [http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000165204416000012/googexhibit3101q42015.htm Larry Page CEO] must each sign that their ''internal control system'' is rock solid, and that they are personally attending to it.

A reading of selected sections of Google's annual report is also very instructive as to just how competitive providing services, especially search engine services, are over the web. Services such as ''Knowledge Engine'' envisions to be are likely to draw out substantial competitive response from giant competitors. Such heated competition would in any case require a Cadillac quality ''internal control system''' and a very unified desire (ie Community and Foundation on the exact same page) to push ahead in that direction.

'''From GOOGLE 10-K [http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000165204416000012/goog10-k2015.htm#sE6CD9F65F0AA8AE3CD60CA518A030F8A Competition subsection of BUSINESS] emphasis added.'''

Our business is characterized by rapid change as well as new and disruptive technologies. We face formidable competition in every aspect of our business, '''particularly from companies that seek to connect people with online information''' and provide them with relevant advertising. We face competition from:
*'''General purpose search engines and information services''', such as Yahoo, Microsoft's Bing, Yandex, Baidu, Naver, WebCrawler, and MyWebSearch.
*Vertical search engines and e-commerce websites, such as Kayak ('''travel queries'''), LinkedIn ('''job queries'''), WebMD ('''health queries'''), and Amazon and eBay ('''e-commerce''). '''Some users will navigate directly to such content, websites, and apps rather than go through Google.'''
*Social networks, such as '''Facebook and Twitter'''. Some users are increasingly relying on social networks for product or service referrals, '''rather than seeking information through traditional search engines.'''
*Other forms of advertising, such as television, radio, newspapers, magazines, billboards, and yellow pages. Our advertisers typically advertise in multiple media, both online and offline.
*Other online advertising platforms and networks, including Criteo, AppNexus, and Facebook, that compete for advertisers with AdWords, our primary auction-based advertising program.
*'''Other operating systems and mobile device companies.'''
*'''Providers of online products and services that provide answers, information, and services.''' A number of our online products and services, including Gmail, YouTube, and Google Docs, compete directly with new and established companies, which offer communication, information, storage and entertainment services, either on a stand-alone basis or integrated into other offerings.

Competing successfully depends heavily on our ability to rapidly deliver innovative products and technologies to the marketplace so that we can attract and retain:
*'''Users, for whom other products and services are literally one click away, primarily on the basis of the relevance and usefulness of our search results and the features, availability, and ease of use of our products and services.'''
*Advertisers, primarily based on our ability to generate sales leads, and ultimately customers, and to deliver their advertisements in an efficient and effective manner across a variety of distribution channels.
*'''Content providers''' (Google Network Members, the parties who use our advertising programs to deliver relevant ads alongside their search results and content, as well as '''other content providers for whom we distribute or license content)''', primarily based on the quality of our advertiser base, our ability to help these partners generate revenues from advertising, and the terms of our agreements with them.

'''From GOOGLE 10-K
[http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000165204416000012/goog10-2015.htm#sBF525117D634DB8684E2CA518A5591F2 Risk Factors]. Emphasis added.'''

'''Web spam and content farms could decrease our search quality, which could damage our reputation and deter our current and potential users from using our products and services.'''

“Web spam” refers to websites that attempt to violate a search engine's quality guidelines or that otherwise seek to rank higher in search results than a search engine's assessment of their relevance and utility would rank them.
Although English-language web spam in our search results has been significantly reduced, and web spam in most other languages is limited, '''we expect web spammers will continue to seek ways to improve their rankings inappropriately.''' We continuously combat web spam, '''including through indexing technology that makes it harder for spam-like, less useful web content to rank highly.''' We face challenges from low-quality and irrelevant content websites, including '''“content farms”, which are websites that generate large quantities of low-quality content''' to help them improve their search rankings. '''We are continually launching algorithmic changes focused on low-quality websites.''' If our search results display an increasing number of web spam and content farms, this could hurt '''our reputation for delivering relevant information or reduce user traffic to our websites.''' In addition, as we continue to take actions to improve our search quality and reduce low-quality content, this may in the short run reduce our AdSense revenues, since some of these websites are AdSense partners.

[[User:Rjlabs|Rjlabs]] ([[User talk:Rjlabs|talk]]) 01:36, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

:[[User:Rjlabs|Rjlabs]], I have not read the bulk of your note above - sorry, but it's quite long and well past my working hours. But I saw your note on the other page and read the line "Seems odd the synthesis from the community, as compiled by the foundation, is not accessible" and wanted to let you know that the file link is red because it does not exist yet. It has not yet been uploaded. Its upload is imminent. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 01:43, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

:{{u|Rjlabs}}, to be clear, prior to the release of the 2015-16 Annual Plan I had last been at the WMF offices in San Francisco in November 2014 at the FDC meeting: in other words, long before the 2015-16 annual plan had even been started. There is no temporal relationship between my attendance at the FDC meeting and my review of the 2015-16 annual plan. The FDC had met in May 2015, but we did it in Berlin, not San Francisco. Quite honestly, looking at the work the [Search and] Discovery team has done since the budget was approved, it looks like most of it is entirely within what I'd consider reasonable scope for the WMF to do. Several of its activities have been in areas that have long needed improvement or been community requested (e.g., internal search improvements, better maps functions), and others have been more experimental. Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea to put a lot of smart people in the room together; my issue wasn't so much with the concept as the lack of explanation of what they were supposed to be doing. As it turns out, it sounds as though the Discovery team went out there and found useful objectives to pursue absent the big bucks that had originally been envisioned to do things that it seems not even the team itself really thought was such a good idea. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker|talk]]) 01:54, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
::{{u|Rjlabs}}, the [[:c:File:2016 Strategic Approaches Report.pdf|report]] was uploaded on Friday - it's now linked in the sidebar. [[User:PEarley (WMF)|Patrick Earley (WMF)]] ([[User talk:PEarley (WMF)|talk]]) 15:55, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}

== Goal proposal for strategic priority 1: usability testing for search ==

I recommend usability experiments where ordinary people recruited through, e.g. neighborhood postbill flyers or Craigslist gigs ads, come in to some office without any Wikimedia or Wikipedia branding (but with usability studies branding), are offered payment for their agreement to be observed answering questions requiring general reference information with a web browser on low-end phones, laptops, and tablets, with their behavior analyzed to identify deficiencies in Wikimedia search and default search engines' interface with Wikimedia projects.

Jimbo Wales wrote, "I strongly support usability experiments with various classes or categories of users on a variety of devices. We have a poor understanding, mostly anecdotal and not sufficiently systematic, about how people find us, what they are looking for when they do, and also importantly how they fail to find us when they are looking for what we provide," on his talk page 15:55, 21 February 2016 (UTC).

[[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 15:59, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
:[[User:Johnbod]] is involved is something like this, I think, with Wellcome Trust: testing how people find medical information (on desktop, only). --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 00:02, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposal for strategic priorities 2 and 3: staff community wishlist ==

The [[2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Results]] should be incorporated into Foundation engineering goals, and staffed with appropriate headcount. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:18, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
* {{ping|EllenCT}} the efforts are supported by the [[Community_Tech|Community Tech]] team engineering goals and they have [[2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey|selected 10 items]] to focus on over the next year. The headcount to support those wishes are provided in our annual planning process. Additional requests are reviewed by additional product audiences in collaboration with Community Tech and they also will have a focus at the [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/wikimedia-hackathon-2016-organization/ 2016 Wikimedia Hackathon]. [[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 05:32, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::{{Ping|WMoran (WMF)}} Are you satisfied that only ten were approved when nearly 40 got dozens of votes and almost a hundred were seconded? Is there an ongoing plan to repeat the survey on an annual basis? I'm concerned about the amount of effort it takes to support the visual editor and mobile interfaces on so many kinds of fragmented mobile devices and often less-than-interoperable browsers, and whether those efforts support content contributors as well as some of the moderately popular items on the wishlist would. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 15:50, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:::{{ping|EllenCT}} Ten was the initial target of what the team identified to support for now and provided [[2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey#What_about_the_other_97_proposals.3F|further detail for the other 97 proposals]]. I do believe this is a step in a good direction, something we will continue to improve on and a list all teams can continue to work on. Yes the plan is to do this on an annual basis. [[User:WMoran (WMF)|WMoran (WMF)]] ([[User talk:WMoran (WMF)|talk]]) 07:23, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
: I believe community wishes should drive all engineering teams, not just several people in one special team. --[[User:Ilya|Ilya]] ([[User talk:Ilya|talk]]) 08:43, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposal for strategic priorities 2 and 3: rewarding contributors ==

The Foundation is prohibited from paying contributors.[https://www.eff.org/issues/cda230] Could a new organization funded by the Foundation reward contributors for achievements? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:33, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

:Hi [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]]! WMF's Community Resources team supports individuals, groups and formal organization across our movement through grants and other resources. Many organizations in our movement, including ones that receive funding from WMF, reward contributors for their achievements. This happens in a number of ways. Many of them provide recognition, merchandise or awards to contributors to recognize their efforts. Many chapters offer prizes to contest winners. In the Wiki Loves Monuments contest, some provide cameras or technical equipment to winners. Another example is Wikimedia Ukraine's Wikizghushchivka (condensed milk), delivered the editor with the most contributions in that month and the new editor with the most contributions in that month. WMF also provides scholarships to individuals to attend Wikimedia movement events. [[User:KLove (WMF)|KLove (WMF)]] ([[User talk:KLove (WMF)|talk]]) 01:10, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thank you, [[User:KLove (WMF)|Katy]]. Those are fantastic programs, but not very focused on fair compensation for the crowdsourced textual contributions from which the Foundation primarily benefits. Please note that uncompensated copyright grants can be recinded, but you [http://www.copyright.gov/docs/203.html have until 2035] to track down contributors and compensate them in return for a permanent grant with [[en:Consideration|consideration]] if you want to avoid that possibility. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 01:49, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, one could open a crowdfund to ask money to do a specific task. [[User:Evan-Amos|Evan-Amos]] did it to make photos of old videogame consoles, for example. --[[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]] ([[User talk:NaBUru38|talk]]) 00:11, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:Why not use the Foundation's extremely successful ongoing crowdfunding to support the general case through the Chapters? As long as the Foundation proper has no say in the details, they can't be accused of exerting editorial control to disrupt their Section 203 CDA safe harbor provisions. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 15:56, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

== Critical questions for strategic priorities 2 and 3: supporting the contributor community ==

(a) What public policy efforts, beyond privacy and related protections, would best support and further empower the community and contributions? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 17:25, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

: First of all, the Wikimedia community is not just contributors.
: Contributors search for information gaps, biased information and unsourced information. To fix them, they search for resources to get the correct information. That's two separate tasks.
: Non-contributors can be varied. Some share information outside the Wikimedia pages. Some encourage and teach people to collaborate.
: Each member of the community needs different things. Contributors need ways to find things to fix, and access to sources. Teachers need resources, and training too. --[[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]] ([[User talk:NaBUru38|talk]]) 00:24, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:: Quite true; it's hard to say that the Foundation is [[Mission statement|disseminating educational content "effectively and globally"]] when Foundation officials cozy up to information ministers in dictatorial countries involved with political repression and censorship. There is no doubt that needs to stop. So to add another "critical question" under the strategic planning process as stated: (b) Should the Foundation adopt a policy to explicitly oppose such oppressive and censorial regimes? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 16:02, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::: Hi {{Ping|User:EllenCT}}, have you had the chance to look at the WMF Public Policy team's work on the [https://policy.wikimedia.org Public Policy Portal]? It lays out five core areas of work, including anti-censorship, access to knowledge, copyright and open licenses, intermediary liability protections, as well as privacy. The Public Policy team is part of the WMF Legal team. [[User:Katherine (WMF)|Katherine (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Katherine (WMF)|talk]]) 18:24, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
:::: Yes, {{Ping|Katherine (WMF)}} and hope that coverage will increase, for example, by the Foundation showing a greater commitment with actions instead of just words, especially on the questions: (c) what are the necessary social factors to optimize access to knowledge? E.g., [http://www.foreurope.eu/fileadmin/documents/pdf/Workingpapers/WWWforEurope_WPS_no040_MS110.pdf] and (d) do those factors include active measures to reduce both political oppression and economic repression? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 20:28, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
:::: {{ping|EllenCT}} I think there is a lot of room here to grow and use the influence we now wield to make changes without spending a ton of resources (obviously some but not a ton). Obviously Privacy and related protections are a big aspect of that (and are important) but there are other areas which could be really beneficial to the mission and the community. For example copyright reform has always been a relatively important one and there has been a lot of discussion in Europe about that recently especially around the [[:w:en:Freedom_of_panorama|Freedom of Panorama]]. I know that some of the European chapters have been doing some great work on that and that our legal teams Public Policy folks have been assisting. More recently (as in last Friday I believe) a couple members of the Support & Safety team started conversations with Public Policy about online harassment as well. While we want to tackle that from multiple angles (it is almost always better to deal with it in non-legal ways first) the laws about online harassment are in really bad shape right now and trying to find some ways we can push for change there, especially since it's a high priority for other orgs too right now, could be really useful. [[User:Jalexander-WMF|Jalexander]]--[[:w:Wikimedia Foundation|WMF]] 19:18, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

== Regarding knowledge quality ==
=== TLDR: ===

Presently, this document mandates the WMF to work on tools that improve the volume of "knowledge creation" and the platforms (mobile, tablet) and formats (multimedia) we use. Please make it clear that WMF will invest some of its technical resources in the building of badly needed tools to support ''knowledge quality improvement'' such as expert reviewer tools and a simplified diff so readers can see changes from the reviewed version without all the wikicode. I and others can give you more examples of what's needed but, for now, we - those working with experts, journals and institutions - need to know if you're going to support us with more than just motherhood and apple pie statements. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 23:58, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

=== Argument ===

The [https://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Movement_Strategic_Plan_Summary/Summary 2010-2015 Strategy] placed quality in its top five strategic priorities.

[https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2015_Strategy_Consultation_Report.pdf&page=37 Analysis of the 2015 Community Strategy Consultation] found that accuracy and neutrality were high on both volunteers' and readers' lists of concerns. If you add those two together and call it "reliability", reliability, a critical aspect of quality, is their chief concern.

[https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2016_Strategic_Approaches_Report.pdf&page=9 The 2016 Strategic Approaches Report Part 1] identifies "Increase content quality and timeliness by technologically enhancing our editors’ ability to create, monitor, and process content" as one of the most selected strategic approaches. Bearing in mind [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2016_Strategic_Approaches_Report.pdf&page=32 that report's caveat], {{quote|"Reach" had the most comments overall. Note: that it is first in the order of focus areas displayed, which likely impacted why this has a higher response rate. Three of the six "Reach" approaches led all other approaches in all focus areas when looking at total number of participants selecting the approach. Note: this may be related to the disproportionate number of "Reach" comments versus other focus areas.}} the actual ranking of quality and timeliness (and other "Knowledge" approaches) in the minds of respondents is probably higher than the report represents.In this Draft WMF Strategy, under [[2016_Strategy/Draft_WMF_Strategy#Our_vision_.E2.80.94_and_our_challenge|Our vision — and our challenge]], you include "quality" in {{quote|Knowledge - How can we increase the quality of knowledge on the Wikimedia projects, the diversity of formats, and the depth and breadth of coverage (especially underrepresented subjects)?}}Also in this draft, under [[2016_Strategy/Draft_WMF_Strategy#Strategic_Statement|#Strategic Statement]], in the first sentence you say you support the creation of high-quality knowledge {{quote|The Wikimedia Foundation supports the delivery of free knowledge to the world, the health and growth of the Wikimedia communities, and the creation of diverse, high-quality free knowledge.}} but then, you leave it out of the relevant bullet point, 3{{quote|We will increase and diversify knowledge by developing high-priority curation and creation tools for user needs}}

In [[2016_Strategy/Draft_WMF_Strategy#3._Increase_and_diversify_contribution_of_knowledge|the discussion of point 3]] you leave "quality" out of the two bold headings:{{quote|3. '''Increase and diversify contribution of knowledge We will increase and diversify knowledge by developing high-priority curation and creation tools for user needs.'''}} If I'm correctly understanding your language in that discussion, emphasis will be placed on providing tools that improve the volume of knowledge produced and tools that make knowledge creation using diverse platforms (mobiles and tablets) and formats (multimedia) easier, but you do not emphasise the development of tools for improving probably the most important aspect of quality - reliability. I'll remind you, reliability (neutrality and accuracy) is the chief concern of our readers and the wider volunteer community.[https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2015_Strategy_Consultation_Report.pdf&page=37]

Those of us working with academics, journals and institutions trying to improve the reliability of Wikimedia's offering need you to make tools that help experts review our articles, and tools that present versions of our articles that have achieved [[en:WP:RS|reliable source]] status in a way that is most useful to our readers, and other tools, too. Please find a form of words for the second half of this document that clearly emphasises your support for reliability improvement initiatives, and not just knowledge volume improvement and knowledge platform and format improvement. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 02:44, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
:These are good points, but to be fair, strategic priority 3 does refer to high-quality knowledge acquisition as part of its criteria when they are restated in paragraph form, and refers to quality twice in the rationale. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 14:28, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
::Higher up in the document they ask, "How can we increase the quality of knowledge on the Wikimedia projects, the diversity of formats, and the depth and breadth of coverage (especially underrepresented subjects)?" But their proposed answers do not expressly support the development of tools aimed at improving the reliability of our current corpus. Where it specifically addresses what the WMF can do, at the business end of the document - the bit that translates into action - it discusses increasing volume and something it refers to as diversity (the exact meaning of which eludes me but that I ''think'' refers to making mobiles and tablets better for editors, and possibly making multimedia features easier to deploy), but leaves out the development of technical support for improving reliability. I'd appreciate it if the authors could clarify this for me.

::What I need to know is, does this document include or exclude the possibility of the WMF developing tools to help experts review our content (such tools are sorely needed), and help us better display versions of our articles (like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dengue_fever&oldid=629402504 this version of Dengue fever]) that have passed expert review, and several other tools? If it is meant to encompass that kind of work, I'd appreciate it if the authors could make that clear in the document. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 09:49, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:::I agree with Anthonyhcole that the words do not seem to emphasize quality. I do see that the word was used once. I have no doubt that if asked, express opposition to quality but I don’t think the typical reader of this prioritization is going to come away with the impression that improving quality is high on the list of priorities. How do we make sure that support for quality is more than simply lip service?--[[User:Sphilbrick|Sphilbrick]] ([[User talk:Sphilbrick|talk]]) 15:45, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::: + emphasize quality more, yes. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 20:14, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

::::Just to clarify, the intention is that quality is part of this strategic priority. That will be present in the next iteration of the strategy. As for specific tools that will be in or out, the WMF Annual Plan (to be released by April 1) will show some of the specific plans for tools, etc. The product team is using community consultation (task boards, research, community wish lists, etc.) to determine which tools to work on and will continue adding through the year accordingly. [[User:Suzie Nussel (WMF)|Suzie Nussel (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Suzie Nussel (WMF)|talk]]) 18:42, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Suzie Nussel (WMF)}}Would you please link to these tool discussions, so others can participate. We've been waiting years too long for real tools to robustly support referencing, citations, and validation of the intext assertions that the citations are intended to underpin. We've hobbled along with Citation bot and citation templates, but they are not really intended or suited for a multilingual enterprise. They have no mechanism for archiving the referenced sources, nor for attributing specific statements to them. This gap undermines the whole concept of verifiability, especially after translated articles see subsequent edits. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 20:59, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::Regarding: "Just to clarify, the intention is that quality is part of this strategic priority. That will be present in the next iteration of the strategy." I'm much relieved. Thank you.

:::::Regarding: "As for specific tools that will be in or out, the WMF Annual Plan (to be released by April 1) will show some of the specific plans for tools, etc," Is the annual plan development a public process, or is it being discussed internally?

:::::I follow links in discussions to this or that meta page and kind of parachute into something - like this strategy page - but I'm finding it difficult to visualise the whole short, medium and long term strategy and planning process. I fear there are important elements of it that I'm either unaware of or have misunderstood. Is there a diagram somewhere that lays all this out, [[User:Suzie Nussel (WMF)|Suzie]]? Thanks for your help. :o) --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 07:11, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

{{unindent}}While Suzie can answer some of the broader questions about the plan, I just wanted to hop in to note that the annual plan development will be a public process, [[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]]. The posting of the annual plan is the launch of the next phase of the consultation. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 14:02, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

:Thanks, [[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie]]. I know how busy you all are, and really appreciate your time. Just to clarify: regarding "The posting of the annual plan is the launch of the next phase of the consultation", will the annual plan be initially posted as a proposal (for discussion)? Thanks again. :o) --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 23:38, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
::Yes, [[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthony]]. :) Full on consultation. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 01:45, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposal for strategic priority 3: database queries supporting content quality ==

I use a [http://quarry.wmflabs.org/query/1337 lengthy, sophisticated WMFLabs Quarry query] to monitor persistent COI editing on influential economics topics which have experienced advocacy editing and tag-team behaviors to push (proven astroturfed, elsewhere) points of view which diverge from the peer reviewed secondary literature reviews and other mainstream reliable sources. Would quality benefit if the Foundation maintained a library of such queries in problem subject matter topic areas and published their results daily, and with the ability for editors to subscribe to notifications of unusual levels of editing activity in wide-ranging groups of articles? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 14:28, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
:If I've understood you, this is a great idea. You're talking about producing a continuous or daily report on topic areas (or networks of articles) that are receiving unusual levels of activity, activity that fits a pre-defined profile indicative of problematical editing, right? --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 09:55, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::Yes; thank you. Perhaps a quarterly or monthly prose report on paid and advocacy editing which has been uncovered or brought to the Foundation's attention, too. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 11:07, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposal for strategic priority 2: third-party independent evaluation of Board of Trustees' fidelity to Mission ==

Recent events have called into question the extent to which the Foundation's Board of Trustees has been acting in alignment with the Foundation's Mission and Values. An independent third party skilled in nonprofit organization performance and organizational dynamics should be hired to study the past performance of the Board and recommend possible improvements in the way Board seats are allocated, how members are nominated and elected, and how agendas and minutes are produced and communicated. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 14:36, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
:Hi EllenCT - Thanks for your comment, which I find quite interesting and thoughtful. We do work with a top governance firm who does advise us on Board practices when we have inquiries, but I understand that you are proposing something a bit more comprehensive. Of course, the majority of our Board members come directly from the Wikimedia community, which helps ensure that values and mission are discussed at the Board meetings. I would be interested in hearing how you might reconstitute the Board to ensure alignment with the Foundation's Mission and Values. I have heard suggestions that we should reserve a seat or two to represent communities from other parts of the world (which we sometimes call the "Global South"). IMHO, we do need trustees with strong governance experience, so I personally am a supporter of the four self-selected Board seats, which the Board is free to fill with such expertise, an expertise which is particularly necessary for managing a $60+ million non-profit with a global mission. Thanks again for taking the time to comment. Much appreciated. [[User:GeoffBrigham (WMF)|GeoffBrigham (WMF)]] ([[User talk:GeoffBrigham (WMF)|talk]]) 22:42, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
::You're welcome, Geoff. These questions are very difficult and extremely influential in determining organizational outcomes and avoiding disfunction, as you can see by reading [http://www.blueavocado.org/content/ditch-your-board-composition-matrix the article and comments here.] I don't have the expertise necessary to make a recommendation with which I would be satisfied, and even though I've only been a Wikipedian editor for years and have served in no other capacity, I don't think I can be objective enough. And I certainly don't think any current or former paid employee of the Foundation or chapter or current or former Foundation or chapter board member can possibly be free from the conflicts of interest involved in making such recommendations. Thank goodness there are organizations which specialize in making them, such as [https://www.aktadvisors.com/nonprofit-board-governance/] and [http://www.americanphilanthropic.com/services/foundation-services/ensure-fidelity-to-donor-intent/]. I would start by compiling a more comprehensive list of such organizations, asking them for references and a work quotation, and going with the most reputable within a reasonable price range.
::However, having said all that, I think there is no question that Board agendas should be published a week in advance of meetings and that minutes should be published no later than a week afterward. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 20:43, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

== Conceptual problem #1 "creation of knowledge" ==

There are several references to "creation of knowledge" and variants - you can search for "creation" to find most of them. At least in Wikipedia, we absolutely do not '''create''' knowledge. Absolutely do not. Per [[en:WP:NOT]], what we do is create articles that provide a "summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject". If the WMF understands that it, or the editing communities, "create knowledge", this is a huge conceptual error that it needs to correct. People in the real world create knowledge - they do research in the sciences and humanities and publish it, and other members of the scholarly and scientific communities digest that and determine what is "accepted knowledge" and we summarize that. "Creating knowledge" in Wikipedia is barred by [[en:WP:OR]]. It is just not what we are ''about''.

To the extent that the WMF is trying to design anything that is about "creating knowledge", or, really importantly, if WMF is not taking into account the crucial activities carried out by the editing community in digesting the vast amounts of literature out there, determining what is and is not "accepted knowledge", and summarizing it, so that we can present "summaries of accepted knowledge" to our users, you are are making a dramatic error, with serious consequences. Would be happy to discuss this. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 03:57, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:I agree this is a crucial issue, but suspect it has more to do with the unfamiliarity of the strategic planning facilitator with the details of Wikipedia than any sort of a conscious decision to reject the WP:NOR pillar. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 11:09, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:Also, as you note, "at least in Wikipedia" is important. :) Wikinews and Wikivoyage, to name just two, view "original research" very differently. However, given that some of our projects are dedicated to curation, I'd imagine "creation of knowledge resources" would be more accurate, since such resources are created as much by curation as they are original research. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 16:50, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for your reply, Maggie! As WP is the flagship (as I understand it), it would be useful if the challenges of content creation in WP were more thoughtfully worked into this. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 19:16, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

::: I create videos of events and interviews. Writing about history is also creating. --[[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]] ([[User talk:NaBUru38|talk]]) 00:28, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::::again I am talking about Wikipedia. We do not create knowledge in Wikipedia. we summarize accepted knowledge. these are radically different things. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 06:31, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::::: Nor do we "discover" new knowledge. I suppose those searching Wikipedia may discover existing knowledge, of which they were previously unaware. [[User:Wbm1058|Wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 18:07, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::: I agree with you. I think we over use the word knowledge and sometimes use it incorrectly. --[[User:Lgruwell-WMF|Lgruwell-WMF]] ([[User talk:Lgruwell-WMF|talk]]) 18:45, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

== Conceptual problem #2 - metrics driven ==

There is a bunch of stuff in here about surveying consumers and measuring what they do, and letting the results drive what you do, in a big picture way. That sounds lovely and data-driven etc, but I want to remind you that the reason that TV news in the US is so abysmal, is... that this is what their users want. Yes the networks are driven by profit, but they get profit by getting more viewers, and they get more viewers by giving viewers what they want; they carefully measure whether people are watching, or not, and they try to figure out why. This sounds exactly like what you intend to do, and I reckon the results will be the same. (See [http://niemanreports.org/articles/the-transformation-of-network-news/ here] for example - what people want, is entertainment; yes even from their news). Yes we want to be relevant, but no, we do not want to devolve into entertainment or sound bites. What is built into your metrics program ''strategically'' to deal with this? It is a challenge faced by people who want to deliver knowledge everywhere. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 04:16, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

:Yes but: If you define "reliable" as "neutral and accurate", the readership and the wider volunteer community (who responded to the 2015 community consultation) [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A2015_Strategy_Consultation_Report.pdf&page=37 overwhelmingly cited reliability] as their chief concern, ahead of all other concerns (such as improved mobile access and multi-media display). So, while I take your point we need to be wary of populism, I see nothing in this document that seriously responds to the chief concern of our readership. The solutions hinted at in this document are aimed at increasing volume and making editing easier. So, I don't think you need to worry that this process is too responsive to the expressed wishes of our readership. Their main concern is being ignored. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 10:19, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::{{u|Anthonyhcole}} That's bitter. But yes, I recommend you open a thread on reliability. That is something I think the WMF could help with - like the bots they have created to identify vandalism. I agree it would be interesting to see what kind of tools they could build that would help us detect additions of unreliable content. I know I have "filters" I use to identify promotional editing and I wonder if they could be translated to a bot....[[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 19:15, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::which i actually just proposed: [[Grants:IdeaLab/Bot_to_detect_and_tag_advocacy_editing]] [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 00:45, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
:::Bitter?!?! Mmm. OK. Probably. I have started a thread on reliability [[#Regarding knowledge quality|above]]. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 00:55, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
:::: :) So you did. sorry for not picking up on that - it was obvious and i missed it. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 20:12, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

== Conceptual problem #3 - no minding of the gap between WMF and the communities ==

Pretty much the entire second item here, "Increase volunteer retention and engagement" is hard for me to understand on any level and much of the clueful response you received in the consultation phase said the same. The editing communities are self-governing with respect to content and behavior, and nothing - literally nothing - in this document reflects the challenge that poses to the WMF to affect any change in culture, attracting editors, or retaining editors.

What I do find in this section, is a lot of hand-wavy stuff that sounds great but is so vague that I cannot imagine tactics to carry any of it out. This should be re-thought and re-written so that it takes account the gaps between the WMF and the various communities and lays out actual strategies that the WMF can carry out in light of those gaps, and that respects the autonomy of the communities with respect to content and behavior. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 04:39, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

:Hello, [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]]. This was the top approach chosen by community during consultation in this area - I assume that most (or even perhaps all) of the users who engaged and chose that option were clueful. We have programs engineered towards achieving these goals already, including for a few examples education program work, volunteer developer outreach and INSPIRE campaigns focused in such areas. So there is work we can and already do in this area - the call is to prioritize it. This particular document is a high level review of strategy. The tactics are being put together as this conversation evolves and will be discussed in our draft annual plan, to be released on April 1st. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 15:56, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for your reply, Maggie. The "consultation" was somewhat problematic - as you know it was truncated, and as several people commented, the limited range of things to respond to made it difficult - you all had already baked in #2 being a top priority. And you did get feedback along the lines I have written here.
:: In my experience as a Wikipedia editor, I find that overwhelmingly two things determine how long somebody stays - how aware they are there is a lot to learn about how to create quality content (how teachable they are) and how aligned they actually are with the mission (do they really want to help summarize accepted knowledge for the public good according to the policies and guidelines established by the community, or are they here to promote or denigrate something?) If they are teachable and are really here to build an encyclopedia, their experience will generally be OK. They generally need a lot of mentoring from other editors, which happens casually, but they generally stick around. People who are unwilling/unable to learn, or who are [[en:WP:NOTHERE]], generally create a lot of drama and suck up volunteer time, distracting them from the work of building content. I don't understand how WMF can affect any of that.
::My experience of education program work, is that we get waves of students coming to articles and who start editing directly (and quite often aggressively, because it is not uncommon that students view their grade as depending on getting some content into Wikipedia), who require a ton of ''volunteer time and effort'' to actually mentor. See above, with regard to the factors that drive whether they stick around or not.
:: I don't understand how WMF believes it can affect these intra-community things. I acknowledge that there is a lot I don't know. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 19:12, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

:::Hi, [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]]. :) As you know, people were offered 6 built-in and an additional free comment input for each area, which gives a fair amount of room for diverse opinions. We did receive different levels of support (and opposition) for different propositions. I think that's to be expected. The needs of different projects and different communities across the world are pretty diverse; for that matter, the needs and wishes of contributors even within English Wikipedia are pretty diverse. It seems we agree that mentorship is important. The [[Research:Teahouse|Tea House]] is an example of a [[Research:Teahouse long term new editor retention|program that seems to have positively impacted engagement]]. (And has now spread beyond the EnWP pilot to other projects.) (In terms of the [[:outreach:Education|education program]], it's [[:outreach:Education/Countries|global]]; impact has varied according to region, although I'm not best positioned to discuss their metrics.) But what a developed community like EnWP needs may differ from what growing communities may need, and specialized communities (like OTRS volunteers or tool maintainers) have still different requirements. Engagement and re-engagement measures can differ accordingly. I could well imagine such efforts involving supporting the work of affiliates, community event organizers (such as those who coordinate GLAM events or editathons), grantees, key functionary groups (like ArbComs and OmbCom), and volunteer tool developers and coders once we get to the tactical level in the annual plan. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 20:53, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::::I see. I didn't know the origins of the Tea House (described [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-05-14/WikiProject_report here]). That is really interesting - a great idea that emerged in dialogue between a motivated GLAM-supported volunteer and folks at the WMF. Hm! And I hear you on there being different needs in different communities. I am sorry but i don't know what your last sentence means. What would "efforts involving supporting...ArbComs" possibly look like? thanks. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 23:08, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::For one example (which may or may not wind up a tactic), [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]], there have been calls to support ArbComs with training on dealing with harassment complaints, which could increase Arb engagement and provide better avenues of help with issues for community members. For another, there have been requests to help arbitration committees across projects communicate and share best practices. There may be other approaches as well that can help them function in a way that could improve the environment on individual projects where they operate. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 23:14, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::Interesting. Issues of harassment are notoriously difficult (like the Lightbreather case, which was widely misunderstood in the media) and Arbcom cannot make policy, but rather has to follow it, including the OUTING portion of the harassment policy. Would harassment training of arbcom members improve gender gap issues or harassment more generally? Interesting question.
::::::Your answers here have been interesting and I appreciate your time, and have learned a bunch. So thanks! Each thing that you mentioned does "mind the gap" and relies on engagement of the community in conception and execution. The description in the strategy does not express that enough in my view. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 00:43, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

== The role of the Foundation ==

* "Building a better understanding of our users’ needs is critical before the Foundation makes important decisions on solving readership and contribution challenges"
* "The Foundation will experiment with statistically significant ways of increasing volunteer retention and engagement"

Hello, I disagree with that. The Foundation must ''support the community'' to "understand the users' needs" to "make decisions on solving participation issues", "increasing volunteer retention and engagement" and so on. The Foundation should never do those things in our place. --[[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]] ([[User talk:NaBUru38|talk]]) 23:55, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
:Hello, [[User:NaBUru38|NaBUru38]]. The Wikimedia Foundation definitely must support community initiatives and does - through the grant program, quite directly, but in other areas of engagement as well. I agree that the Foundation should not be making important decisions on solving major problems alone; I think we need to improve that language to reflect that. I thank you for calling it out. (''Edited to add: the whole sentence, for context is "Participants indicated that building a better understanding of our users’ needs is critical before the Foundation makes important decisions on solving readership and contribution challenges."'') That said, we do have programs and researchers in the WMF as well who will be exploring these issues. Understanding users' needs and experimenting with ways of increasing volunteer retention and engagement are both important parts of meeting the strategy recommendations of [[2016 Strategy/Community consultation|the last consultation]] (linked for the benefit of others, as I know you participated there and are quite well aware of where it is :)). --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 12:59, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::The sentence [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=2016_Strategy%2FDraft_WMF_Strategy&type=revision&diff=15426150&oldid=15420267 has been edited to add] "in consultation with community". --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 13:58, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

== Who authored this draft? ==

I see [[User:Kbrown (WMF)]] posted it and [[User:Mdennis (WMF)]] and [[User:GeoffBrigham (WMF)]] are responding, but did you author it Karen, Maggie and Geoff? It would be good to discuss this with the people who put the thinking into it. If that's you, Karen, Maggie and Geoff, that's great. But I'd like to know. (Who is the strategic planning facilitator mentioned above?) --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 03:17, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
:This draft is collaborative, [[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]]. :) I worked on it; Geoff worked on it; our strategic planning facilitator (Suzie Nussel) worked on it; many others contributed as well. --[[User:Mdennis (WMF)|Maggie Dennis (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mdennis (WMF)|talk]]) 12:36, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks, Maggie. --[[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]]) 23:00, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

== What's new? ==

How is this new strategy different from what WMF claimed as their strategy all the years before? I see new wordings, but no new ideas. And just following the numbers in the community survey seems to me a sign of intellectual laziness or a lack of imagination. Community input is supposed to give the WMF food for thought, but you are the ones who are expected to think for your self. Or as Steve Jobs said: How are the customers to know what they want until we give it to them? --[[User:H-stt|h-stt]] [[User_talk:H-stt|!?]] 17:26, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
: I think you raise a fair point. We are developing an organizational strategy here, which is different from a product strategy, though. I am asking myself: Does this give the product and community teams the general direction they need to make decisions about their work? Is this encouraging or hampering innovation? Are we suggesting to staff that they "stay the course" or innovate in this? --[[User:Lgruwell-WMF|Lgruwell-WMF]] ([[User talk:Lgruwell-WMF|talk]]) 18:20, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
::It would be interesting to hear more about how [[innovation]] fits into the draft Strategy. What direction do you see it taking? [[User:Rogol Domedonfors|Rogol Domedonfors]] ([[User talk:Rogol Domedonfors|talk]]) 21:15, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
:::The community wishlist has lots of new things on it. There are several ongoing mission components I would rather see be done more successfully or completely than adding novelty for its own sake. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:36, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

: The new interim executive director for the WMF is the former chief communications officer. I guess that will lead to a big shift in WMF Strategy and I like that decision of the board a lot. --[[User:Molarus|Molarus]] ([[User talk:Molarus|talk]]) 14:22, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
::agree--[[User:Ozzie10aaaa|Ozzie10aaaa]] ([[User talk:Ozzie10aaaa|talk]]) 18:26, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

== Brainstorming for strategic priority 1: search recent changes ==

How about a search engine for the most recent month of recent changes? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:43, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

If this would be useful, would it be more useful with the full text of diffs, or only the added, removed, or changed text without context such as usernames and dates? Should those each be selectable options? [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 20:38, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

==Risk mitigation==
I agree with a large portion of this plan and would like to thank the WMF staff who authored this draft. Most of the issues have already been pointed out. As usual, problems mostly arise in implementation and I anticipate the annual plan which details this and the metrics used to quantify success. I feel there is insufficient detail about mitigating the risk that comes with expanding reach and diversity. Improving admin tools isn't sufficient, shortcomings in software and reach have the unintended and beneficial side-effect of preventing low-quality or unwanted content from hitting our projects in the first place.

*Engaging new readers and contributors from countries and communities with low Wikimedia awareness and use.
*Improving outreach to new potential volunteers across diverse contribution areas
*Improving retention rates of ... new contributors
:*A look at a random article about an Indian village on en.wp or the new pages feed clearly demonstrates a poor (or malicious) understanding of what the purposes of Wikimedia projects are, especially in Global South countries. Some of this comes about from not knowing (or caring) what an encyclopedia is, some from culture. How do you plan on mitigating the risk that these efforts will result in large quantities of low-quality or out of scope (and hence of dubious educational value) content being "contributed" to Wikimedia projects?

*We want to ... make engaging with Wikimedia easy and intuitive, and in turn increase the volume and diversity of knowledge on our projects.
:*Creating quality free content requires clue and effort. Technical barriers to contributing serve, to some extent, to deter those who lack sufficient competence and/or aren't here to improve our content and reduce the impact they have on our projects. What are you going to do to replace these effects? Examples: [[mw:Mobile design/Uploads|mobile upload copyvio and crap flood]], cross-wiki upload means you have to go to Commons and nominate images for deletion after deleting the spam page on Wikipedia that they are used on.

*Improving mobile engagement and contribution.
:*You're going to find it difficult to circumvent the fundamental limitations of the platform -- phones are (at best) mediocre at all means of making quality contributions to Wikimedia projects, whether it be addition of text or uploading images/video/sound. How will you ensure that mobile contributions meet minimum quality standards (see above)?

I'm asking this because the WMF has been historically woeful at promptly rolling back non-performing programs and features, resulting in a lot more damage than need be. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] ([[User talk:MER-C|talk]]) 04:24, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

== Goal proposals for strategic priority 2: stop storing browsing histories and relying on compromised hardware ==

Recently, it came to light that [[Research:Characterizing Wikipedia Reader Behaviour]] has been storing readers' browsing histories in ways which can cause them to be made available to international law enforcement, sysadmins, researchers who [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/WMF_VolunteerMemorandumofUnderstanding.pdf do not appear to be bound by published effective, enforceable, or permanent terms to protect reader privacy,] and those who may have compromised Wikimedia servers. [[User:LZia (WMF)]] was unable or unwilling to answer the question, "How long do you store browsing histories?"[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_205&oldid=709465902#Seriously_displeased_about_the_new_survey...] ([https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Survey_Privacy_Statement_for_Schema_Revision_15266417 90 days?]) Former Foundation CFO [[User:GByrd (WMF)]] was [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GByrd_(WMF)&oldid=13967521 unable to answer] whether Foundation servers are vulnerable to the exploits described in e.g. [http://resources.infosecinstitute.com/nsa-bios-backdoor-god-mode-malware-deitybounce/], [http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/02/how-hackers-could-attack-hard-drives-to-create-a-pervasive-backdoor/], or [http://www.computerworld.com/article/2474275/cybercrime-hacking/17-exploits-the-nsa-uses-to-hack-pcs--routers-and-servers-for-surveillance.html]. This presents a substantial life-threatening risk to those under regimes practicing political oppression.

If it is necessary to store histories of readers' activity, opt-in informed consent should be obtained, per established human subject experiment ethics standards. [[User:EllenCT|EllenCT]] ([[User talk:EllenCT|talk]]) 23:07, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

User:EranBot/Copyright/Blacklist

2015-08-25T19:52:04Z

LeadSongDog: wikipedia.net.ru

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User:EranBot/Copyright/Blacklist

2015-08-25T18:59:45Z

LeadSongDog: wiki.xingyimax.com

<pre>
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User:EranBot/Copyright/Blacklist

2015-08-06T19:15:17Z

LeadSongDog: medlibrary.org/medwiki/

<pre>
###############################################################################################################################
# DO NOT MODIFY THIS LIST UNLESS YOU HAVE A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF REGEX! #
###############################################################################################################################
# External URLs matching this list will be removed from copy and paste concerns
# 
# Syntax is as follows:
# * Everything from a "#" character or "==" (to allow titles) to the end of the line is a comment
# * Every non-blank line is a regex fragment.
# ** Most only match hosts inside URLs.
# ** For a few hosts, only certain directories, parameters or filenames are blocked.
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User:EranBot/Copyright/Blacklist

2015-06-30T15:54:19Z

LeadSongDog: quickiwiki.com

<pre>
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# 
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# ** Most only match hosts inside URLs.
# ** For a few hosts, only certain directories, parameters or filenames are blocked.
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Grants talk:PEG

2015-02-25T18:57:27Z

LeadSongDog: /* "Please do not edit this page." */ c

Hi,

Does the Grants Program only fund Wikimedia-related work, or anything that's (broadly) mission-aligned? And by ''mission-aligned'' I mean anything that will result in the sharing of free knowledge (in reference to the WMF mission). So, for instance, will you be willing to consider funding the creation and/or distribution of Khan Academy educational videos in rural Africa? [[User:Abbasjnr|Abbasjnr]] ([[User talk:Abbasjnr|talk]]) 15:59, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
:Thank you for this question! The answer is: "it depends". While most projects ''are'' expected to have a direct bearing not only on our general [[mission]] but also on our concrete [[wmf:Wikimedia Movement Strategic Plan Summary|strategic goals]], it is not inconceivable that in some circumstances, projects that are farther afield may be perceived to have a capacity-building or infrastructural benefit for later work more closely aligned with our strategic goals.
:To your specific example, I don't think we would be interested in funding the distribution of Khan Academy educational videos in rural Africa. The reason is that there is not particular reason for ''us'', the Wikimedia movement, to be funding this. This resource is well-understood, is ''already'' funded by several large (larger than us) foundations, and ''is'' being distributed in several different projects, themselves funded by other funders as well. In other words, the added value of WMF as a funder here is not obvious, and we are looking for opportunities we are more uniquely situated to fund. [[User:Ijon|Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants)]] [[User_talk:Ijon|talk]] 18:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

== "Please do not edit this page." ==

I think this is a very [[anti-wiki|un-wiki]] thing to say. [[User:PiRSquared17|PiRSquared17]] ([[User talk:PiRSquared17|talk]]) 03:46, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
:Yup, it is a very anti-wiki thing to say. However, it is also the right thing to say in this instance ''for this page''.
:The reason is we are working hard to make this and other grant program information pages accessible to everyone in their own language, and edits to the English original disrupt the translations integrity and have the potential to add unnecessary work to our (overworked, volunteer) translators.
:Additionally, there is the potential wasted work of making a change that is ''not'', in fact, compatible with what WMF is willing to do (since these pages are describing the reality of a program with certain rules and requirements), having translators pick up the change, only to realize the work was wasted when WMF staff needs to revert the changes on the English original.
:That is why we ask all changes to be made on the talk page. If they make sense and are consistent with the actual program, WMF staff will effect them on the page itself. Also, we are likely to buffer several minor changes (such as improved phrasing) and make them all at once, again to make it easier on the volunteer translators. [[User:Ijon|Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants)]] [[User_talk:Ijon|talk]] 18:23, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
:: Isn't it better just to ask TAs not to approve major changes without asking PEG-guys? --[[User:Base|Base]] ([[User talk:Base|talk]]) 18:56, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:::No, I don't think it is. Not-approving changes is not as good a solution as discouraging editing on a page that exists to communicate official policy made at WMF. This talk page is a good venue to receive feedback and suggestions for changes. [[User:Ijon|Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants)]] [[User_talk:Ijon|talk]] 20:42, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
::::Take no notice of Bartov. It's out of line to be going around telling the community what and what not to edit. [[User:Tony1|'''Tony''']] [[User talk:Tony1|(talk)]] 01:12, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
:::::Are translations not normally permalinked to a specific version of the original? If so, then subsequent edits to the original are captured in the history, and can be used to update the translation when time permits. On the other hand edits to a page produced by translation could certainly wreak havoc. The better approach may be to stick to appending content at the end of the translation, rather than editing inside it. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 18:57, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

== Decision-making process ==

Hi all. I'm rather worried about the decision-making process that the GAC/PEG go through. As far as I understand it, the GAC is a volunteer body that commits to providing comments on the talk page of PEG proposals, and then a single WMF staff member (or maybe now two staff members) makes the decision about whether the PEG proposal is funded or not. As much as I respect Asaf (who is absolutely fantastic and amazing), I don't think that he should be the sole decision-maker here, even if his decision is based on the GAC's comments. I wouldn't want to see anyone put in that position. Contrast this to the way that the FDC works, which consists of a group of wikimedians collectively providing a recommendation to the WMF board (again a group of wikimedians) for review and decision - that involves far more people in actually making the decision, rather than it coming down to a single person. Given the scale of the GAC grants compared to the FDC allocations, the decisions probably can't be recommended to the WMF board to make, but I would really like to see the GAC collectively provide recommendations to the WMF staff about what should be done rather than leaving the decision completely to them to decide on, so that the decisions clearly have broad support of a group rather than being the decision of an individual.

(If I've misunderstood anything about how the GAC works, then please accept my apologies and correct me here.)

Thanks. [[User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]] ([[User talk:Mike Peel|talk]]) 21:46, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
:Mike, thank you for your concern. One ''could'' go down that pathway, but a key advantage of the current GAC system is that it delivers balanced, reasonable outcomes in its assessment of applications, with minimal overheads in terms of its volunteer input. Actually, I think the staff need to be, and are, very careful in weighing competing issues. The FDC volunteer setup is expensive, involves elections and appointments, and meets only twice a year; and the ED has raised issues with its composition in terms of ''potential'' COI, although it's very hard to get the formula right in such a huge organisation. A disadvantage of the current GAC system is that more volunteer input would improve the system; but I'm yet to be convinced that making our role more exclusive, more official, more powerful, would end up in greater balance and value for money. Not at the moment, anyway.With respect to Asaf, Alex, and the other grantmaking staff who have input into the PEG process, we should be pleased with their skill and dedication. Although I sometimes disagree with Asaf, that might well be my lack of balance: overall, I've come to trust their judgement. The questions they ask on talk pages are balanced, reasonable, and usually probing, with a professional insight I sometimes envy.So while your point might need to be revisited as the system evolves, my feeling is that the system is OK at the moment. Looking at the outcomes of the current system, are there decisions that concern you? [[User:Tony1|'''Tony''']] [[User talk:Tony1|(talk)]] 12:25, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

:: Hi [[User:Tony1|Tony]]. Thanks for your reply. :-) There are different models that follow the principles but differ from that used by the FDC that could work better in this situation - for example, agreeing on recommendations via telecon rather than in-person deliberations (something that's not possible for the FDC due to the complexity of the FDC proposals and the need to consider the entire entity, but something that could work well for the GAC). I'd agree that the lighter selection process for the GAC is also very much suitable for it, although I wonder if something more like the enwp arbcom elections might be better suited. I won't comment on the ED's issue that you mention, aside from to say that I disagree with them. I haven't looked through the PEG decisions in detail, so I won't comment on that now - what I'm worried about here is more the general setup. Imagine if Asaf moved on and was replaced by someone that wasn't quite so amazing - would you still feel comfortable with the current framework in that situation? Thanks. [[User:Mike Peel|Mike Peel]] ([[User talk:Mike Peel|talk]]) 19:49, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
:::One has trust in more grantmaking staff than Asaf alone. Elections would make it all more political and would come at considerable cost – volunteers would have to organise them; there are inherent distortions in every voting system; and decisions are more likely to be politicised. Let's carefully consider those downsides over the current system, for which you don't point to decisions that could have been improved. [[User:Tony1|'''Tony''']] [[User talk:Tony1|(talk)]] 03:54, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

== [[:Category:WMF grants by chapter]] empty ==

Most categories in this category are empty; the same can be said of [[:Category:WMF grantees]]. It seems some categorisation massacre happened. --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 08:28, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
: Thanks, [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]]. We realized this as well and are working to fix it. [[User:AWang (WMF)|Alex Wang (WMF)]] ([[User talk:AWang (WMF)|talk]]) 21:13, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Grants talk:PEG/MrjohnCummings/UNESCO Wikimedian in Residence/discussion of draft

2015-01-28T06:50:35Z

LeadSongDog: /* Licensing awareness */ progress

Thank you for taking the time to provide feedback on this application, I will try to reply to your comments as soon as possible [[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 20:51, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

==Feedback==
[Wish to retract earlier remarks]. --[[User:Djembayz|Djembayz]] ([[User talk:Djembayz|talk]]) 01:02, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
: Hi Djembayz - while I agree with your overall point, I'm not sure this is the right place to make it. I am sure that (for instance) a grant proposal for a project to deal with sexual harassment would be welcomed by many, and the WMF will soon be initiating a round of grantmaking aimed solely at reducing the Wikimedia gender gap. But you seem to be opposing this idea not on its merits, but because other things are more important. That is not helpful. [[User:The Land|Chris Keating (The Land)]] ([[User talk:The Land|talk]]) 19:55, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

:: Hi Diembayz, a large part of the idea of this project is to increase the diversity of contributors (including gender) by training contributors from UNESCO country and regional offices and their partner organisations and match them with local volunteers. Since UNESCO and it's partners deal with empowerment of women all around the world they will hopefully have some resources and approaches that can help address current lack of diversity on Wikimedia projects. If you have ideas on how to retain new female editors once they have been trained that would be very helpful. Thanks [[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 20:12, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

:::Hi [[User:Djembayz|Djembayz]]

:::I've been thinking about how this project could potentially help to address some of the gender issues on Wikimedia projects, I'm going to add this to my application, while the project isn't going to focus solely on it I hope this will contribute to addressing the gender issues on Wikimedia projects.

:::'''Goals'''
:::Aim of increase the diversity of contributors (including gender) by training contributors from UNESCO country and regional offices and their partner organisations and match them with local volunteers.

:::'''Activities'''
:::Make connections between people working to address gender issues at UNESCO and their partners with people working to do the same on Wikimedia projects with the aim of sharing knowledge, resources and approaches. UNESCO has a robust track record and a mandate to address [http://www.unesco.org/new/en/unesco/themes/gender-equality/about-us/ gender equality] and [https://en.unesco.org/themes/women-and-girls-education female education].

:::Does this sound a useful addition? Could you offer any additional suggestions I hope that you'll reconsider the application.

:::Thanks

:::[[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 23:41, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

==Questions==
*Please email Magnus to ask him the addition of [[commons:Category:Images from the archive of UNESCO]] to [[toollabs:glamtools/baglama2/]]. --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 20:59, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

::Done :) [[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 21:36, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

==Concerns==
===Qualtrics===
Please consider using the free software LimeSurvey instead, or specify why you can't. See [http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.analytics/345/]. --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 21:01, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]], thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into using LimeSurvey, previously I've used SurveyMonkey (WMUK has an account). [[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 21:35, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

:Ok, thanks. --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 21:02, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

===Wikipedia logo===

You used the pre-2010 Wikipedia logo in the page. Please make sure to use the correct logos (see [[c:Wikipedia/2.0]]). --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 21:02, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

:Thanks [[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]], fixed. [[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 21:43, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

=== Basic info ===

John, I'm missing a clear statement of what your involvement would be. You're spending [1950 hours], based in Paris, working at UNESCO offices, with a trip to Korea. How long is this? Full or part-time? Paid what, gross & net ? ,<s> When is this to happen? </s> [ok, in infobox only I think] If this isn't there you should squeeze it in. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 18:46, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

:Hi [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]]

:Please see the [[Grants:PEG/MrjohnCummings/UNESCO_Wikimedian_in_Residence#Activities| Activities]] section for a breakdown of the what I will be doing, also see the Wikimedian in Residence Salary and Taxation line in the [[Grants:PEG/MrjohnCummings/UNESCO_Wikimedian_in_Residence#Budget| Project budget table]], the position will be full time for 1 year.

:Thanks

:[[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 19:32, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, I had read those, but they don't contain that information, without complicated OR calculations anyway. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 00:42, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

===Funding===
Should UNESCO not be the ones funding this position? [[User:Jmh649|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Jmh649|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Jmh649|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Jmh649|email]]) 00:31, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

:Hi [[User:Jmh649|Doc James]]

:As I mention in the [[Grants:PEG/MrjohnCummings/UNESCO_Wikimedian_in_Residence#Budget_narrative|Budget Narrative]] section UNESCO has lost 22% of their funding caused by the US cutting all funding in response to UNESCO granting Palestine full membership. There's more information here [http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/10/us-unesco-palestine-funding-idUSTRE7A969620111110 1], [http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/11/11/176469.html 2], [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/08/us-unesco-voting-funds-palestine-decision 3].

:Thanks

:[[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 02:33, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
::All other WiR are funded by the organization in question. What is the budget of UNESCO? [[User:Jmh649|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Jmh649|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Jmh649|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Jmh649|email]]) 02:44, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
:::Hi James - I don't think it is accurate to say all WiRs are funded by the organisation in question. Wikimedia UK has previously been involved with many with a mixture of funding models. [[User:The Land|Chris Keating (The Land)]] ([[User talk:The Land|talk]]) 22:04, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
::::Indeed, at CRUK I was funded by Wellcome Trust for the original period, with the 2-month extension by Wellcome, CRUK & WMUK (50:25:25). At the Royal Society I was funded by WMUK. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 00:41, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
:::::Thanks John for the correction. And congrats on the extension at CRUK. Is a mixed funding model for this position on the table? [[User:Jmh649|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Jmh649|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Jmh649|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Jmh649|email]]) 03:24, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

::::::Hi [[User:Jmh649|Doc James]]
::::::UNESCO isn't able to offer direct funding but will provide an office space in Paris for the year and staff time, additionally Wikimedia UK have kindly offered staff time and merchandise. If I'm successful in the application I will be looking for external funding for travel to additional conferences during the residency and to extend the project length. As others have kindly pointed out there are several funding models for Wikimedians in Residence positions, I've tried to find examples of each funding model listed below, it's been surprisingly difficult to find who funded some posts, it may just be me looking in the wrong place.

::::::'''Wholly funded by the Wikimedia Foundation'''
::::::* [[Grants:PEG/Metro/Institutional Growth and Community Fellow|Institutional Growth and Community Fellow]]

::::::'''Wholly funded by a Wikimedia Chapter'''
::::::* [http://lists.wikimedia.org.uk/pipermail/arc/2014-October/000124.html Museums Galleries Scotland]

::::::'''External grant funding'''
::::::* [https://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2012/05/wikimedia-uk-and-british-library-unveil-latest-wikipedian-in-residence/ British Library]

::::::'''Part funded by the organisation part by a Wikimedia Chapter'''
::::::* Natural History Museum and Science Museum
::::::* Monmouthpedia
::::::* Cancer Research UK
::::::* [http://openglam.org/2012/11/06/uk-glams-a-rare-opportunity-to-fund-a-wikipedian-in-residence/ Not a residency but Wikimedia UK were offering partial funding for organisations]

::::::'''Part funded by the organisation, Wikimedia chapter and external funding'''
::::::* Cancer Research UK
::::::* [http://wikiambassador.jiscinvolve.org/wp/2014/08/28/wikimedia-ambassador-facts-figures/ Jisc Wikimedian Ambassador]

::::::Thanks

::::::[[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 03:36, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
::::::::Yes I was not thinking from UNESCO but more from an organization like the Wellcome Trust or Gates Foundation.
::::::::The WiR at Cochrane and that at Consumer Reports are funded by these organizations. Your proposal sounds good though.[[User:Jmh649|'''Doc James''']] ([[User talk:Jmh649|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Jmh649|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Jmh649|email]]) 05:34, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

=== Licensing awareness ===

The missions for many UN organizations include education, yet the default licenses for media, publications, press releases, etc generally don't permit reuse without explicit permission, which rather obviously impedes pseudonymous wikimedians from doing so. Making blanket arrangements permitting reuse will be a way for Wikipedia, wikinews, etc to substantially advance their missions. To my mind this should be the top priority. The rest will be almost pointless if each release has to be individually handled. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 04:14, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

:Hi [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]]

:UNESCO has released [http://en.unesco.org/open-access/creative-commons-licenses 100s of books under a Wikipedia compatible license], I hope to help them to expand this to other content and for this to be used as a model and example for other UN organisations.

:Thanks

:[[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 04:35, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
::Ah, looks like some good headway has been made since I last looked at it, yet [http://www.un.org/en/aboutun/terms/ the general terms] para "a" still has that troublesome non commercial clause that WP really can't work with. At the [http://www.who.int/about/licensing/en/ WHO equivalent] the standard terms are similarly well-intentioned but problematic. Clarification as to how the UN views WMF would help: are WMF projects considered "educational"? Do they accept the usual hyperlinked referencing (as used on commons) to be sufficient attribution for images, or are special provisions needed? Got the gist? [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] ([[User talk:LeadSongDog|talk]]) 06:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

=== Questions from Pine ===

Hi John,

In principle I like the idea of building capacity at UNESCO. However I have a few questions.

My understanding is that Wikimedians in Residence are funded by the hosting institution, in this case UNESCO. I am curious as to why this case would be an exception to that, and what the implications of that would be for other WiR projects. It looks to me like this project is getting close to the line of "paying for content" by having the WiR be funded by Wikimedia instead of the hosting institution, and it seems to me that budget problems at UNESCO are not sufficient reason for WMF to be paying for content. I'm curious as to what you think about this issue.

There may also be some interesting legal issues that happen if a WiR is funded by WMF or a Wikimedia affiliate instead of the hosting institution, and I'd be interested in hearing if you've thought about those. For example, who is liable if the WiR or someone that they train commits a copyright violation, and are legal defense resources available? If UNESCO has its own legal funds for this purpose, ok, but it would be problematic to have WMF be held legally responsible for the actions of the WiR because WMF is funding the WiR.

Another question I have is about sustainability. My understanding is that occasional outreach attempts in the United States to research institutions have been unsustainable due to lack of commitment and follow-through by the hosting institutions after training and outreach events have happened, unless the institutions make a point of appointing and funding someone internally to continue Wikimedia-related work. What are your plans to ensure that UNESCO follows through with what it gains from this one-year project, and has UNESCO's leadership made commitments to follow through in subsequent years of continuing Wikimedia-related work by setting aside funds specifically for this purpose or including Wikimedia-related work in a regular employee's job description?

I agree that having some sort of partnership between UNESCO and Wikimedia makes great sense, but I have concerns about the model that is proposed here.

Thanks,
--[[User:Pine|Pine]][[User talk:Pine|✉]]

Pinging {{ping|AWang (WMF)}} taking a look at John's proposal as well as [[Grants:PEG/Metro/Institutional Growth and Community Fellow]], it's unclear to me where WMF draws the line between supporting GLAM or similar institutions with funding for staff or grantee support for outreach and growth, versus paying for content. There's also the question of whether WMF would fund events like scan-a-thons at a GLAM institution. Can you comment on where WMF draws the line between what's ok and what's not? For example, perhaps it's ok if WMF grants funds to a hosting institution for a staffer who will be employed by the institution to do GLAM work and scan content, but it's not ok for the WMF to grant funding to an individual directly to do the same work? Thanks, --[[User:Pine|Pine]][[User talk:Pine|✉]] 23:24, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

:Hi [[User:Pine|Pine]]

:Thanks very much for your questions, answered in order:

:1. Funding for Wikimedians in Residence come from a variety of sources including from WMF, please see the discussion above.

:2. I will have to get back to you about this, I will ask.

:3. Sustainability of contribution is really important, I'm going to include local chapters, user groups and volunteers wherever possible to build long term sustainable relationships. Showing impact will be key in encouraging organisations in having long term goals to contributing to Wikimedia projects and asking them to do this before showing impact will be difficult. I think the key to sustainability of contribution is to find objectives that are manageable and realistic for UNESCO and it's partner organisations that plays to their strengths and expertise, these activities doesn't necessarily need a lot of staff time which is one of the major sustainability issues. A few examples with different time commitments would be writing Wikipedia articles, subject experts reviewing Wikipedia articles for inaccuracies and omissions at intervals e.g every six months, changing the license on material produced to be Wikimedia compatible and uploading it to Wikibooks, Commons etc. In addition I would look to external funders to continue the residency past the year if funding was available and there was still work to be done which seems very likely give [http://en.unesco.org/partnerships UNESCO has over 380 partner organisations].

:Thanks

:[[User:Mrjohncummings|Mrjohncummings]] ([[User talk:Mrjohncummings|talk]]) 04:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Grants talk:PEG/MrjohnCummings/UNESCO Wikimedian in Residence/discussion of draft

2015-01-27T04:14:53Z

LeadSongDog: /* Licensing awareness */ new section

User:EranBot/Copyright/Blacklist

2014-12-03T19:16:57Z

LeadSongDog: \bbrain\.knullkontaktsexdating\.com\b

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User:EranBot/Copyright/Blacklist

2014-12-02T18:20:31Z

LeadSongDog: \bparasitetesting\.com\b

<pre>
###############################################################################################################################
# DO NOT MODIFY THIS LIST UNLESS YOU HAVE A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF REGEX! #
###############################################################################################################################
# External URLs matching this list will be removed from copy and paste concerns
# 
# Syntax is as follows:
# * Everything from a "#" character or "==" (to allow titles) to the end of the line is a comment
# * Every non-blank line is a regex fragment.
# ** Most only match hosts inside URLs.
# ** For a few hosts, only certain directories, parameters or filenames are blocked.
\b*\.isfoundhere\.com\b
\b[0-9]{5}\.us\b
\b[a-z]*sex[a-z]*\.com\b
\b0po0\.com\b
\b10001\.us\b
\b100india\.com\b
\b101languages\.net\b
\b1-1-2008\.com\b
\b124\.125\.21\.126\/wcd\/wp\b
\b1bx\.com\b
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User:EranBot/Copyright/Blacklist

2014-11-23T05:39:15Z

LeadSongDog: +1

<pre>
###############################################################################################################################
# DO NOT MODIFY THIS LIST UNLESS YOU HAVE A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF REGEX! #
###############################################################################################################################
# External URLs matching this list will be removed from copy and paste concerns
# 
# Syntax is as follows:
# * Everything from a "#" character or "==" (to allow titles) to the end of the line is a comment
# * Every non-blank line is a regex fragment.
# ** Most only match hosts inside URLs.
# ** For a few hosts, only certain directories, parameters or filenames are blocked.
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User:EranBot/Copyright/Blacklist

2014-11-20T20:52:58Z

LeadSongDog: typo

<pre>
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# DO NOT MODIFY THIS LIST UNLESS YOU HAVE A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF REGEX! #
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# External URLs matching this list will be removed from copy and paste concerns
# 
# Syntax is as follows:
# * Everything from a "#" character or "==" (to allow titles) to the end of the line is a comment
# * Every non-blank line is a regex fragment.
# ** Most only match hosts inside URLs.
# ** For a few hosts, only certain directories, parameters or filenames are blocked.
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User:EranBot/Copyright/Blacklist

2014-11-20T20:52:26Z

LeadSongDog: reklamy-led.tk

<pre>
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# ** Most only match hosts inside URLs.
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